To all the Bushur Evo Guys

[Vteckidd]

Now that im near a computer, done moving in to my new apartment on the THIRD FLOOR (Let me tell you how much of a pain in the ass it is to move up 3 flights of stairs, is it possible to pull every muscle in your body?) and now that things have calm down i wanted to elaborate on some things.


Let me start of by saying IM SORRY for opening my mouth. Unfortunetly every once in awhile (some may think more often than not) i get this uncanny urge to run my big mouth about things i probably should keep to myself. In that thread i made some pretty bad and unprofessional comments about David Bushur and i shouldnt have.

I also want to say i personally apolagize to Phil and Nick (2 Bushur cars) for coming off like i was bashing on your cars. I have nothing but respect for you guys, and i know how much time, effort, sweat, blood, and in phils case possibly semen went into your cars, and as a fellow enthusiast i shouldnt have made negative comments.

David Bushur has done GREAT Things. He has given more to this industry than i ever will, and he has dome some tremendous things in the DSM community. I wont take that away from him.

Most of you dont know me personally, and i mean REALLY know me, but i have a tremendous passion for learning especially about cars. Some people joke that im a secretary, or ive never done anything, and it used to bother me alot. Well lately ive just been ignoring that kind of talk because i know what im capable of and i know what i can or cannot do.

Over the 7 years ive been in this game, ive learned ALOT. Ive worked at 2 BIG NAME shops with BIG NAME tuners. Being in that environment you learn ALOT whether you can duplicate the skills or not, you LEARN.

Ive recently completed EFI University classes (101 and Advanced) and ive done alot of reading on tuning of FI engines. Ive bought a wideband to start tuning my own cars an playing around with things to get a better understanding of the technical and software of Engine Management systems.

Something that has always struck me as ODD was Bushurs BIG PSI BIG WHP pump gas cars. It just NEVER sat right with me. Now im not saying he CANT do it, or hes forging dyno numbers, im simply saying it just didnt mesh with my mode of thinking. Im not saying im a know it all even though i come off as one at times.

It just gets to me that no other car on the planet can come close to what hes claiming hes doing, and we are just supposed to say "ok, hes a genius". Unfortunetly i like to press people and get to the WHY. Some of you are right, he may not want to say WHY. He may have found something that no one else has yet, but to me thats still far fetched considering the internal combustion engine has been around for 100+ years. There are people out there just as smart as DB, how come Supras, Hondas, Subarus, etc cant duplicate the things he says he can do with DSMs?

I simply wanted to know what makes his cars able to run 10=15psi more boost than any other engine on the planet.

Im a technical person and a simple answer of "parts choice makes the difference" or "its DB!" doesnt do it for me.

So anyway this is getting way too long of a post but i just wanted to say that im sorry for running off at the mouth, i will try to watch what i say, and instead of bashing, try to ENGAGE in intelligent debate.

[hydroshutter]

I didn't read all of that

[AirMax95]

I have no clue of the said bashing, but Mike I respect you. You are a stand up guy!

Now find the magic formula and tell us all!

[99SI]

Aww how sweet. :D I knew where you wanted to go with the Buschur and understood what you were getting at you just did it very badly. lol.

[99SI]

I didn't read all of that
Cliffs: Mike posted doubts about David Buschur. Buschur guys got mad. Mike apologized for not posting his doubts in the correct manner. /

[hydroshutter]

Cliffs: Mike posted doubts about David Buschur. Buschur guys got mad. Mike apologized for not posting his doubts in the correct manner. /


http://smiliesftw.com/x/mademb.gif (http://smiliesftw.com)

[yungdz]

He's right, you are a pretty stand up guy. Probably the simplest answer as to why DB can do it with DSM's is because each engine is designed differently, even though they are all similar at the same time. Its a constant debate but I think every Subaru guy knows that an Evo makes more power with less mods than the Subaru Boxer engine. That's just the way it is.

But Kudo's to you.

[Ronsam2006]

I think the OP should get an Evo and see why they really call it an Evolution..lol

[slostang]

here's the answer.

dave buschur has a vial of chuck norris's semen. each 4g63 he builds is held together with said semen which is stronger than any bolt ARP could ever dream of.

[Ronsam2006]

here's the answer.

dave buschur has a vial of chuck norris's semen. each 4g63 he builds is held together with said semen which is stronger than any bolt ARP could ever dream of.
That just might be it...damn.

[CHUCK NORRIS]

here's the answer.

dave buschur has a vial of chuck norris's semen. each 4g63 he builds is held together with said semen which is stronger than any bolt ARP could ever dream of.

I only share my semen w/ your mom, and it's all in her a$$ where she likes it. Unless she farts in a vial and sells it to DB, then you sir are a liar.

[slostang]

I only share my semen w/ your mom, and it's all in her a$$ where she likes it. Unless she farts in a vial and sells it to DB , then you sir are a liar.


she does...

[CHUCK NORRIS]

she does...

I'd like to see her try to hover her ridiculously fat a$s over a vial w/out missing and getting my DNA all over the carpet. That'd be a site to see.

[GGPIS3]

this thread is going well... lol

glad you see the light mike. its not always about what you say, but how you say it.

[Type-R]

Evo motors are able to handle simple mods to produce big power. They are not comparable to Honda motors which often require resleeve, bore, larger pistons, mix-matched head/block combos, etc to produce the power with reliability. Upgrading to a Evo Green turbo, larger fuel rail, plugs&wires, intake system, cranking up the boost past 20 will go a long ways for the stock internals. Simple stuff. Even something simple like changing to a thicker head gasket or type of gasket (metal, etc.) will produce numbers.

I didn't read up into details on this shop that is being called out but I know first hand from my builds that it doesn't take a lot to produce a lot.

[WickedIXMR]

Evo motors are able to handle simple mods to produce big power. They are not comparable to Honda motors which often require resleeve, bore, larger pistons, mix-matched head/block combos, etc to produce the power with reliability. Upgrading to a Evo Green turbo, larger fuel rail, plugs&wires, intake system, cranking up the boost past 20 will go a long ways for the stock internals. Simple stuff. Even something simple like changing to a thicker head gasket or type of gasket (metal, etc.) will produce numbers.

I didn't read up into details on this shop that is being called out but I know first hand from my builds that it doesn't take a lot to produce a lot.
:screwy:

[ILOVEKIDDRACING]

:screwy:


lmao. x2.
:goodjob:

[Type-R]

:screwy:

Sometimes

[Dietcoke]

I can run 25 psi on my LNF with no KR on 93 octane and do daily. I don't think some of the power numbers and PSI numbers they claim are too entirely lofty, given the right combination of engine mods.

[WickedIXMR]

Sometimes
Running thicker headgasket means lower compression on the motor = lower power all the time not sometimes. You obviously dont know what your talking about.

[ILOVEKIDDRACING]

Running thicker headgasket means lower compression on the motor = lower power all the time not sometimes. You obviously dont know what your talking about.
Own3d.

[Type-R]

Running thicker headgasket means lower compression on the motor = lower power all the time not sometimes. You obviously dont know what your talking about.

I guess not then huh

I was only tossing out random things, not details. And I was trying to stick up for Evo's in general since I've built a few on my off time from building RB's and such. But whatever, have a nice one.

[Ronsam2006]

If you don't know what a thicker headgasket does...then I doubt there is anything you can inform the OP about anything he already doesn't know.

[ILOVEKIDDRACING]

I guess not then huh

I was only tossing out random things, not details. And I was trying to stick up for Evo's in general since I've built a few on my off time from building RB's and such. But whatever, have a nice one.

built a few in your offtime huh

what do you have, them just laying around and ****.

[BABY J]

http://www.importatlanta.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62673&page=1&pp=20


random thread outta nowhere - kinda related

[Type-R]

built a few in your offtime huh

what do you have, them just laying around and ****.

I am in the military and also ASE cert, so my off time is spent in my garage doing side jobs for people in town as well as car importation

[WickedIXMR]

I guess not then huh

I was only tossing out random things, not details. And I was trying to stick up for Evo's in general since I've built a few on my off time from building RB's and such. But whatever, have a nice one.
I call bs. If you can build motors then you should deff know what a thicker head gasket does.

[Type-R]

I call bs. If you can build motors then you should deff know what a thicker head gasket does.

I never claimed what I knew and what I didn't know. As I said before I only was tossing out rough random things supporting the reliability of the new Evo motors from my experiences. If my post was poorly worded for you to understand my point then I'm sorry.

You want to turn this into a words game then go ahead but I have no interest in continuing a debat with you on what parts have what effects and the pros and cons. It's a mute debate that serves no purpose with my original post of supporting Evo's.

[Catnip]

Running thicker headgasket means lower compression on the motor = lower power all the time not sometimes. You obviously dont know what your talking about.

Correct me if I am (since I usually am wrong, lol), but thicker headgaskets are usually stronger and always lower compression, right? If so, wouldn't a thicker headgasket in conjunction with raising the boost (safely since it's lowered compression and a better HG) yield higher HP numbers? Maybe? :ninja:

[ct9a gsr]

Stock Evo HG is good for over 1kwhp.

[Ronsam2006]

Stock Evo HG is good for over 1kwhp.
Oh wow! I didn't know that...Mitsubishi really upgraded on that part there. DSM's weakest link in the motor is the head gasket. 22 psi on stock turbo is enough to tear it apart.

[2.3 Evo 8]

....a little semen went into the build of my car.

Good post Mike. One day, in a far off galaxy, the Buschur tuning secrets will be released.

[WickedIXMR]

Correct me if I am (since I usually am wrong, lol), but thicker headgaskets are usually stronger and always lower compression, right? If so, wouldn't a thicker headgasket in conjunction with raising the boost (safely since it's lowered compression and a better HG) yield higher HP numbers? Maybe? :ninja:
In this case of being an evo motor no. The compression of the motor is already low since it was built for turbo. If you go any lower you will just lose power. Plus why would you want to go lower than 8.5:1 compression ratio? Thats already pretty low and the right compression ratio for turbo. Now if you have an N/A car with high compression like an s2k which is 11:1 and your going turbo then yes a thicker headgasket would make better numbers but only because it allows you to run more boost safely.

[slostang]

....a little semen went into the build of my car.

Good post Mike. One day, in a far off galaxy, the Buschur tuning secrets will be released.


you see guys... I speak the truth

[Paree4g63]

I personally think ya should get a EvoMR, get all the best buschur mods and try to tune it yourself. If the numbers come out very good & you're a good tuner..then you know it's mostly from the buschur parts but a great tuner will make the magic really happen in the longrun. AMS & BUSCHUR FTW!! My goal is to just do a bit of both; Hybrid!

[OnURleft]

In this case of being an evo motor no. The compression of the motor is already low since it was built for turbo. If you go any lower you will just lose power. Plus why would you want to go lower than 8.5:1 compression ratio? Thats already pretty low and the right compression ratio for turbo. Now if you have an N/A car with high compression like an s2k which is 11:1 and your going turbo then yes a thicker headgasket would make better numbers but only because it allows you to run more boost safely.

+1.

[WickedIXMR]

I personally think ya should get a EvoMR, get all the best buschur mods and try to tune it yourself. If the numbers come out very good & you're a good tuner..then you know it's mostly from the buschur parts but a great tuner will make the magic really happen in the longrun. AMS & BUSCHUR FTW!! My goal is to just do a bit of both; Hybrid!
Are you on crack?

[06IX RS]

^^ lol

[1000cckiller]

I call bs. If you can build motors then you should deff know what a thicker head gasket does.you don't know yourself seeing, that mommy pays for everything.

[hydroshutter]

you don't know yourself seeing, that mommy pays for everything.

A bit uncalled for.

[BABY J]

I love the internet. It's teh fun.

[WickedIXMR]

I call bs. If you can build motors then you should deff know what a thicker head gasket does.



you don't know yourself seeing, that mommy pays for everything.


In this case of being an evo motor no. The compression of the motor is already low since it was built for turbo. If you go any lower you will just lose power. Plus why would you want to go lower than 8.5:1 compression ratio? Thats already pretty low and the right compression ratio for turbo. Now if you have an N/A car with high compression like an s2k which is 11:1 and your going turbo then yes a thicker headgasket would make better numbers but only because it allows you to run more boost safely.


Oh really I dont?

[BABY J]

^^

Static CR means NOTHING w/out figuring in displacement as well. So all you wannabe tuners really need to STFU, you're all making yourselves look dumber than you already are. Plenty of turbo v8s have lower than 8.5.1 static CR and make serious power, and are still streetable, and still leave hard off idle as well. Just an FYI. There are more engines out there than 4 CYLs. I will take a 10.0:1 CR 2.0L over a 8.5:1 1.6L any day.

[hydroshutter]

^^

Static CR means NOTHING w/out figuring in displacement as well. So all you wannabe tuners really need to STFU, you're all making yourselves look dumber than you already are. Plenty of turbo v8s have lower than 8.5.1 static CR and make serious power, and are still streetable, and still leave hard off idle as well. Just an FYI. There are more engines out there than 4 CYLs. I will take a 10.0:1 CR 2.0L over a 8.5:1 1.6L any day.

This added nothing to the thread.

[Big Baller]

His pump gas numbers all bull****....the end.

[BABY J]

This added nothing to the thread.
This sure did.

[BABY J]

This added nothing to the thread.

Actually it did. Look at static CRs on turbo diesels - my statement made the point that static CR is not the only thing to consider when making/losing power. If some1 says that there is no sense in going lower than 8.5:1 (which some1 DID say in this thread), then that blanket statement is wrong.

[BABY J]

Hmmm....

http://www.importatlanta.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120006

[Vteckidd]

ehhhh Static compression is a factor because it directly correlates to power. But you are right Baby J that a Honda can run 12.5:1 on pump gas no problem where as many V8s are considered UNSTREETABLE past 10.5:1.

All has to do with cylinder head design, quench area, displacement, etc.

Static is more of a level playing field an the numbers are easy to come up with.

Dynamic compression is a little trickier to really get most people to understand

[hydroshutter]

2003-'04 Cobras for example came from the factory 8.5:1 CR, and were completely streetable.

Food for thought about just a typical forced-inducted production V8.

[BABY J]

I'm not a Buschur cheerleader... I have never owned a DSM. Most of the serious threads I post in I am trying to learn. I just know he brought a PUMP GAS EVO to WingerWarrior in Indy and ran away from everything there almost to the tune of 10 seconds... I saw this w/ my own eyes. Does he fabricate numbers - maybe so. But his junk outruns most people's "race" cars. IDK

[Vteckidd]

i dont think Bushur MAKES dyno numbers up, if he did, he would have been caught by now.

His cars do seem to have the times to back it up as well.

The only thing i had problems with is him claming how easy and STREETABLE 30+PSI on PUMP GAS was.

[redrumracer]

For him it "might" be easy.

[Vteckidd]

It might be, but i have yet to see any hard evidence on what makes it so easy.

I refuse to believe that its as simple as an intercooler and turbo manifold that sets his cars apart from other makes an models.

[BABY J]

i dont think Bushur MAKES dyno numbers up, if he did, he would have been caught by now.

His cars do seem to have the times to back it up as well.

The only thing i had problems with is him claming how easy and STREETABLE 30+PSI on PUMP GAS was.

I wish he'd say the octane, vs just saying "pump" - in Indiana, u can get 101 outta the pump, and in some places 110 --> mind u it was leaded (I can't see him running leaded in his DD). In Columbia SC, you can get 95 from SUNOCO outta the pump as well.

[Vteckidd]

hes said multiple times its 93 octane, now the only time itll help him is in the winter with the winterize mix which is a few points higher octane but not much

[WickedIXMR]

^^

Static CR means NOTHING w/out figuring in displacement as well. So all you wannabe tuners really need to STFU, you're all making yourselves look dumber than you already are. Plenty of turbo v8s have lower than 8.5.1 static CR and make serious power, and are still streetable, and still leave hard off idle as well. Just an FYI. There are more engines out there than 4 CYLs. I will take a 10.0:1 CR 2.0L over a 8.5:1 1.6L any day.
WE were talking about evo motors.

[Vteckidd]

as a rule of thumb though a thicker headgasket doesnt ADD Power, all it does is allow you to lower the static compression so you can lower cylinder temps and run more boost.

But most people think (including me) thats an archaic way of doing things.

Josh is right, Evo motors are iron blocks with mid 8s compression, no reason to go lower. Matter of fact id want to go higher if it were my car.

[BLK JDM]

There was a huge thread on H-T a while back where Magnus Motorsports proved Bushur to be lying or decieving w/ his pump gas dyno #s. The thread was actually a comeback by Magnus Motorsports b/c Bushur was bashing them on one of the DSM or EVO forums. Magnus made a very detailed thread w/ multiple DSMs at every stage of being on the dyno. He proved that Bushur was messing w/ the dyno data to get the #s he was pulling. Bushur had one car that he had tuned and it was showing that the car was being tuned in sub 40-F temps which was just outlandish. I'll see if I can find that thread on my lunch break.

I know very little about Bushur or Magnus Motorsports but after reading that thread and the link to the original thread on the DSM or EVO forum it would make me think twice about what comes out of Bushur's mouth. He makes awesome parts that speak for themselves but he also stretches the truth about how much power his parts make like a politician!!

[BTLFED]

I had this Bushur debate years ago when I worked at Knowledge. A customer bought everything for his Evo from Bushur and they gave him a horsepower number that the car would make on pump gas. It didn't come close on an AWD dyno so the customer flipped out and called Busher. Whoever he talked to proceeded to tell him that it would make those numbers if dynoed IN 2WD. I have no idea what the original pissing contest was about, but what I have posted is something that I have heard more than once. I'm not taking anything away from Bushur because like I said that was years ago, and cars like Phil's show otherwise now a days, but it's something to think about as far as their numbers. I don't know if they still do that for "big numbers" or not.

[GGPIS3]

im glad im not a tuner... and im glad there is the saying ignorance is bliss.

[DirtyMechanic]

im glad im not a tuner... and im glad there is the saying ignorance is bliss.troof....

[2.3 Evo 8]

Buschur tuned my car to 32 psi on 93 octane and it makes crazy power.

Care to go for a ride?

[ILOVEKIDDRACING]

Buschur tuned my car to 32 psi on 93 octane and it makes crazy power.

Care to go for a ride?
:lmfao:
It's all talk until it gets drug down the track by my stock goat.

[BTLFED]

:lmfao:
It's all talk until it gets drug down the track by my stock goat.

Isn't there something you should be doing?

[hydroshutter]

Buschur tuned my car to 32 psi on 93 octane and it makes crazy power.

Care to go for a ride?

I want a ride on high boost, old man.

[2.3 Evo 8]

:lmfao:
It's all talk until it gets drug down the track by my stock goat.

I'm ready now, are you? My car is back in GA.

Care to up the wager?

I just ran my car this passed weekend and I seriously doubt your Pontiac is going to do **** against my car. You don't have enough nitrous!

[yogi08]

i usually dont like you but wwell said!

[Evolunchbox]

im glad im not a tuner... and im glad there is the saying ignorance is bliss.

+1
I know what I make on Buschur's dyno and I will put $1000 that it will make MORE on 99% of the other dyno's out there. Dyno numbers are just freaking #'s! You get a base line and you can go up or down after mods. That is the only way I see it.
A Buschur pump gas (93 oct) car went low 10's and 140+ ALL weekend long! Then he drove his car back 3+hours to home...woke up and drove it to work and back...still no issues...HMMM :thinking: He's going to the track again this weekend. It's all about what you are happy with.

BTLFED- A while back Buschur only had a 2 wheel dynojet... Since then they got a Mustang AWD dyno.. They used to base their numbers from that.

[BTLFED]

BTLFED- A while back Buschur only had a 2 wheel dynojet... Since then they got a Mustang AWD dyno.. They used to base their numbers from that.

Okay that's cool. That's why I asked the "Buschur Gang" lol