Marijuana decriminalization bill gaining support in Congress

[BOBA-GA-NUSH]

Support Barney Frank's Personal Use Act!

Marijuana decriminalization bill gaining support in Congress..

July 30, 2008

Barney FrankMPP's Rob Kampia and Congressman Barney Frank (D-Mass.) held a press conference to support H.R. 5843, the Personal Use of Marijuana by Responsible Adults Act of 2008...

Click here to ask your member of Congress to support this legislation (http://www.msplinks.com/MDFodHRwczovL3NlY3VyZTIuY29udmlvLm5ldC9tcHAvc2l0ZS 9BZHZvY2FjeT9wYWdlbmFtZT1ob21lcGFnZSZwYWdlPVVzZXJB Y3Rpb24maWQ9MTc3)...

Congressman Frank's legislation would decriminalize the possession of up to 100 grams of marijuana and the not-for-profit transfer of one ounce of marijuana. It would not affect laws prohibiting drug sales or the cultivation of marijuana, and it would not affect state or local laws regulating marijuana possession...

"It's time for the politicians to catch up with the public on this [issue]," Congressman Frank said. "The notion that you lock people up for smoking marijuana is pretty silly."...

The bill incorporates the basic recommendation of the
National Commission on Marijuana and Drug Abuse (http://www.msplinks.com/MDFodHRwOi8vZW4ud2lraXBlZGlhLm9yZy93aWtpL05hdGlvbm FsX0NvbW1pc3Npb25fb25fTWFyaWh1YW5hX2FuZF9EcnVnX0Fi dXNl)(also known as the Shafer Commission). The commission, which was administered by the White House and published its findings in 1972, recommended that then-president Richard Nixon decriminalize possession of marijuana in amounts that constituted "simple possession."..

Thirty-six years later, Rep. Frank will try to do just that...



Why support this legislation?

- Currently, 1 out of every 100 Americans is behind bars, and many of these prisoners are non-violent drug offenders...

- Arresting, prosecuting, and incarcerating people simply for possessing marijuana for personal use is an illogical waste of our government's limited resources...

- Each year, more than 700,000 people are arrested for marijuana offenses, costing American taxpayers more than $7 billion annually. Despite this, marijuana is still easily available, both to adults and minors...

- The money saved from ending marijuana prohibition could provide health insurance each year to 4.5 million uninsured children in the U.S. This legislation would be an important first step towards that...


https://secure2. convio. net/mpp/site/Advocacy?page=SplashPage&pagename=homepage&id=177&JServSessionIdr010=ttbotsjp24. app5b (http://www.msplinks.com/MDFodHRwczovL3NlY3VyZTIuY29udmlvLm5ldC9tcHAvc2l0ZS 9BZHZvY2FjeT9wYWdlPVNwbGFzaFBhZ2UmcGFnZW5hbWU9aG9t ZXBhZ2UmaWQ9MTc3JkpTZXJ2U2Vzc2lvbklkcjAxMD10dGJvdH NqcDI0LmFwcDVi)

ASK CONGRESS TO VOTE. YOU HAVE A VOICE "USE IT"


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CHECK OUT JUST SOME OF THE VICTIMS

[BanginJimmy]

- Currently, 1 out of every 100 Americans is behind bars, and many of these prisoners are non-violent drug offenders...

No such thing as a non-violent drug offender. Marijuana isnt enarly as bad as harder drugs, but it does lead to crimes.


- Arresting, prosecuting, and incarcerating people simply for possessing marijuana for personal use is an illogical waste of our government's limited resources...
If you are possessing it in quantities that fall under personal use the govt doesnt spend much on your prosecution. Many times it is simply a fine and maybe a short probation.


- Each year, more than 700,000 people are arrested for marijuana offenses, costing American taxpayers more than $7 billion annually. Despite this, marijuana is still easily available, both to adults and minors...

Crack is readily available too. Should that be legal also?


- The money saved from ending marijuana prohibition could provide health insurance each year to 4.5 million uninsured children in the U.S. This legislation would be an important first step towards that...

Pointless arguement as the money would then be spent to crack down on smugglers and illegal dealers who would sell it tax free.

[The12lber]

No such thing as a non-violent drug offender. Marijuana isnt enarly as bad as harder drugs, but it does lead to crimes.

The reason illegal drugs lead to violence is because they necessarily have to be bought and sold on a black market - you know, because they're illegal. Remember prohibition much? It happened to coincide with the most visible growth in organized crime in U.S. history. All of those gangs were making money selling illegal booze. No parrallels there, right?

Make them legal and there's no problem.

as a side note. roflskateslolzers@ "No such thing as a non-violent drug offender". I don't know how much Rush Limbaugh you've been listening to, but everyime I've ever smoked pot we just sat in the basement and laughed our asses off. VERY VIOLENT INDEED.

[Total_Blender]

No such thing as a non-violent drug offender. Marijuana isnt enarly as bad as harder drugs, but it does lead to crimes.

- Most crimes related to marijuana are related to the sale and posession of marijuana. If its is brought into the open the relatively minor amount of criminal activity behind it will diminish.

If you are possessing it in quantities that fall under personal use the govt doesnt spend much on your prosecution. Many times it is simply a fine and maybe a short probation.

If every marijuana crime didn't have to be prosecuted it would be considerably less expense to the local authorities. Imagine how short court sessions would be in there weren't posession cases on the dockets.

Crack is readily available too. Should that be legal also?

Booze is legal and readily available, and so is tobacco, gambling and guns. All of which do equal or more damage to society than marijuana. People should be allowed to do what they want to an extent. Crack, meth, etc obviously cross that line.

Pointless arguement as the money would then be spent to crack down on smugglers and illegal dealers who would sell it tax free.

Isn't the government blowing tons of unnecessary money chasing smugglers and dealers already? Allowing the legal distribution of small ammounts of marijuana through licensed regulated and taxed providers would generate tax revenue, and isn't that a good thing?

[DieselNuts]

No such thing as a non-violent drug offender. Marijuana isnt enarly as bad as harder drugs, but it does lead to crimes.
wow...Are you serious? I know plenty of people that have been busted for pot when they werent doing a damn thing but minding their own business.


If you are possessing it in quantities that fall under personal use the govt doesnt spend much on your prosecution. Many times it is simply a fine and maybe a short probation.

you are partially right here, but you get a year probation + jail time. Someone needs to find the stats for the amount of people that are in for 100grams or less and then you tell me that the govt. isnt spending much money on them.

Crack is readily available too. Should that be legal also?
This is just ignorant. You can, in no way, compair crack to pot. If you do, then you need to do some more research on the matter.

Pointless arguement as the money would then be spent to crack down on smugglers and illegal dealers who would sell it tax free.
The point is, the money doesnt have to be spent the way you claim it would be.

[tony]

The reason illegal drugs lead to violence is because they necessarily have to be bought and sold on a black market - you know, because they're illegal. Remember prohibition much?

Make them legal and there's no problem.


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to The12lber again.

Exactly what came to mind when I read the response.





If you are possessing it in quantities that fall under personal use the govt doesnt spend much on your prosecution. Many times it is simply a fine and maybe a short probation.



You really think the war on Drugs will be just as expensive with Marijuana possession excluded? Seriously, lets use common sense here. Locking up for possession is a waste of police power and resources.. how about pursuing maybe, sex offenders?

Lets just put it this way, I just spent two weeks in a state (yes a state) where marijuana possession is legal in less amounts than proposed here. Drug useage actually DROPS after a year or two of legalization and trust me there is no chaos on the streets.. it was pretty laid back actually

[BanginJimmy]

I guess I found all of the pot heads.


All of those gangs were making money selling illegal booze. No parrallels there, right?

Make them legal and there's no problem.

You forget that people are still smuggling cigs into the US. People are still smuggling and producing illegal alcohol and the ATF spends ALOT of money chasing them down. Like I said, this will simply become another black market industry.



This is just ignorant. You can, in no way, compair crack to pot. If you do, then you need to do some more research on the matter.

Actually I wasnt comparing the 2 at all. If you read the quote I was replying to you would understand that. My point was that just because something is readily available doesnt mean that it should be legal.


You really think the war on Drugs will be just as expensive with Marijuana possession excluded?

Actually I think it would be more expensive. The costs of regulating this industry would far outweigh the small amount brought in by taxes. The fact that there would no longer be any fear of arrest for being caught with it, I think it would increase usage and therefore it would increase demand for the illegal product sold at half the price.

[tony]

I don't smoke it, I can't (military) but I do see it as a waste of time in use and in the war on drugs. It has no different effects than alcohol, any justification for outlawing marijuana is the same argument for making alcohol illegal.

And read studies of countries who have legalized it, contrary to what you think useage drops. Imagine if alcohol was illegal, people would have it everywhere but since it is legal you realize how stupid it is to drink all the damn time. (Some of us at least)

[BanginJimmy]

I don't smoke it, I can't (military) but I do see it as a waste of time in use and in the war on drugs. It has no different effects than alcohol, any justification for outlawing marijuana is the same argument for making alcohol illegal.

Both alcohol and cigs should be illegal, in fact I would rather majijuana was legal and cigs were not. At least marijuana isnt physically addictive. Since pure tobacco isnt nearly as addictive as the niccotine laced cigs sold in the country now, I think that will eventually happen to marijuana.


And read studies of countries who have legalized it, contrary to what you think useage drops. Imagine if alcohol was illegal, people would have it everywhere but since it is legal you realize how stupid it is to drink all the damn time. (Some of us at least)


The US does not work like any other country in the world though. Things that work in MANY eurpoean countries simply have not worked here.

[tony]

Both alcohol and cigs should be illegal, in fact I would rather majijuana was legal and cigs were not. At least marijuana isnt physically addictive. Since pure tobacco isnt nearly as addictive as the niccotine laced cigs sold in the country now, I think that will eventually happen to marijuana.




The US does not work like any other country in the world though. Things that work in MANY eurpoean countries simply have not worked here.

Doubt it will become legal, one thing I cannot argue is that Weed is a gateway drug. I didn't believe this at first but when I was in Alaska my friend told me that all of a sudden cocaine is becoming very common there since Marijuana has been legal. He says he sees it everywhere at parties now and studies do support this, so its a matter of what are you willing to deal with.

[TIGERJC]

It will never pass, you know why? Privately owned Prisons would not let that bill pass, the same way companies like black water and Haliburton won't let a Person like ron paul ever get in the white house do to his view on making the u.s. no longer the world police. It comes down to money with everything, LOCKING people up is big business and companies make more money running prisons than schools. That is why you will never see student vouchers, but you will see the state of the art prisons that can hold 10k people and that don't do a good job at rehabilitating even though they have a lot of money to spend. The state I bet spends more money on 1 prisoner than they do on 4 students

[Maniacc]

Both alcohol and cigs should be illegal, in fact I would rather majijuana was legal and cigs were not. At least marijuana isnt physically addictive. Since pure tobacco isnt nearly as addictive as the niccotine laced cigs sold in the country now, I think that will eventually happen to marijuana.
I've been smoking cigarettes for quite some time now and they haven't been addicting to me. I could stop, if I wanted to. I just don't see a reason why I should. I drink from time to time, and again, it has not been addicting. I also like to get baked, atleast twice a week and no addiction there.

You have to understand that 'addiction' will only occur if you allow it to.

[Revmaynard]

It will never pass, you know why? Privately owned Prisons would not let that bill pass, the same way companies like black water and Haliburton won't let a Person like ron paul ever get in the white house do to his view on making the u.s. no longer the world police. It comes down to money with everything, LOCKING people up is big business and companies make more money running prisons than schools. That is why you will never see student vouchers, but you will see the state of the art prisons that can hold 10k people and that don't do a good job at rehabilitating even though they have a lot of money to spend. The state I bet spends more money on 1 prisoner than they do on 4 students

A few years ago I wrote a paper on capital punishment, if I remember correctly it costs 1-2k a day to house a prisoner. It could be more now.

[DieselNuts]

I've been smoking cigarettes for quite some time now and they haven't been addicting to me. I could stop, if I wanted to.
lol, I cant count how many times I have heard this one...

[Maniacc]

lol, I cant count how many times I have heard this one...
Don't know what's so humorous about my post, but I know exactly what you're talking about. I personally know a few people who would make these kinds of claims and never follow through. Yet, I'm not one of them. I've proven it, several times actually.

[DieselNuts]

Don't know what's so humorous about my post, but I know exactly what you're talking about. I personally know a few people who would make these kinds of claims and never follow through. Yet, I'm not one of them. I've proven it, several times actually.
yet you still smoke.... :thinking:

[Maniacc]

yet you still smoke.... :thinking:
What part of my posts don't you understand? Maybe if you removed your d*ck out of your mothers vagina long enough and actually read what I posted you would know that I choose to continue to smoke. It's a choice. Just because I made this choice doesn't mean I can't stop if I wanted to. At this moment in time, I don't, which again is why I made this choice. Understand now? Or should I continue explaining it to you?

[DieselNuts]

What part of my posts don't you understand? Maybe if you removed your d*ck out of your mothers vagina long enough and actually read what I posted you would know that I choose to continue to smoke. It's a choice. Just because I made this choice doesn't mean I can't stop if I wanted to. At this moment in time, I don't, which again is why I made this choice. Understand now? Or should I continue explaining it to you?
please continue explaining because my d!ck is still in my mother's vagina and that somehow keeps me from understanding... :rolleyes:

Why the fuk are you getting so defensive about it. I read your posts and I can comprehend what you wrote. You say that you dont have a reason to quit...how about: It turns your teeth yellow, it gives you bad breath, it makes you smell like shiit, it causes cancer...I could go on, but I really dont give 2 shiits about you...

[Maniacc]

please continue explaining because my d!ck is still in my mother's vagina and that somehow keeps me from understanding... :rolleyes:

Why the fuk are you getting so defensive about it. I read your posts and I can comprehend what you wrote. You say that you dont have a reason to quit...how about: It turns your teeth yellow, it gives you bad breath, it makes you smell like shiit, it causes cancer...I could go on, but I really dont give 2 shiits about you...
Then why did you spend 5 mins typing anything? You apparently care enough to continue wasting your time on me. And I'm not getting defensive, far from it actually. I just don't know why you kept coming back with the same, "lol heard that one before." Like saying I was full of sh*t.

My teeth are fine, I always smell good, and I could care less about cancer because I refuse to live a boring and rule following life. You only live once, and after you die you no longer exist. Which is why I continue to smoke. If you don't care about me and my posts, then don't respond to this one.

[GIXXERDK]

Haha

[BanginJimmy]

What tobacco company do you work for? They are the only ones that ahve EVER said that smoking isnt addictive.


Anyone that claims they could quite smoking but they dont want to is a lair. Its like saying a crack head could quick smoking crack, but he likes it too much.

[Nissangeek]

You have to understand that 'addiction' will only occur if you allow it to.

Actually, a real addiction is caused by your brain reacting to certain chemicals. Usually ones that cause the body to release endorphines(sp?) or dopamine, or that mimic the effects of them.

On another note: why should any drugs be illegal? What right does the government have to tell me what I can and cannot put in my body. If you take the position that alcohol and cigs and drugs kill people or are dangerous for your health, then why not outlaw cars, or even bathtubs. More people are killed by falling in their bathtubs than from cigs each year, and we all know how dangerous cars are. You know why pot was made illegal in the first place? Because the hemp industry threatened the paper industry in the 20's. Pot has only been illegal for about 90 yrs, as has cocaine and opiates.

[BanginJimmy]

On another note: why should any drugs be illegal? What right does the government have to tell me what I can and cannot put in my body.

Because people addicted to drugs routinely commit crimes to pay for their habits. It is s simply public safety issue, not an issue of choice.

[DieselNuts]

Then why did you spend 5 mins typing anything? You apparently care enough to continue wasting your time on me. And I'm not getting defensive, far from it actually. I just don't know why you kept coming back with the same, "lol heard that one before." Like saying I was full of sh*t.

My teeth are fine, I always smell good, and I could care less about cancer because I refuse to live a boring and rule following life. You only live once, and after you die you no longer exist. Which is why I continue to smoke. If you don't care about me and my posts, then don't respond to this one.
lol, you make me laugh. You try to make it a lose lose situation for me by writing that last sentence...nice try. You smoke cigs = you lose.


On another note: why should any drugs be illegal? What right does the government have to tell me what I can and cannot put in my body. If you take the position that alcohol and cigs and drugs kill people or are dangerous for your health, then why not outlaw cars, or even bathtubs. More people are killed by falling in their bathtubs than from cigs each year, and we all know how dangerous cars are.
and what right do they have to make me wear my seatbelt? One thing you mention is that "more people are killed by falling in their bathtubs than from cigs each year". Can you provide proof of this claim? I just find it VERY hard to believe.

[Ran]

It's illegal. It will probably stay illegal. That's the way it should be.

lol @ potheads

[Total_Blender]

Because people addicted to drugs routinely commit crimes to pay for their habits. It is s simply public safety issue, not an issue of choice.

There are people who commit crimes to pay their rent and feed themselves. Crime is never going to go away completely.

Also, I think legalizing marijuana and allowing for legal distribution would be safer for buyers and sellers. Many marijuana sellers also deal in and use harder drugs and thats where the crime is. Opening a legal market for marijuana would deal a severe blow to the black market. And since the harder drugs are traded on the same black market it would hurt those who deal in harder drugs. Not to mention having licensed and regulated providers would ensure that users who buy from the legal market aren't given marijuana that is contaminated with other drugs.

[uproot]

lol @ a plant being illegal.



and lol @ people who drink alcohol and who are anti pot. alcohol is so much worse than pot it's ridiculous.

[Big J]

I think the true test would be to put it on a ballot and let the people decide..........

I don't smoke, but I'm also not one that thinks it's ok for government to try and control as many aspects of private life as it does. Responsible adults will continue to be responsible adults for the better part and the world will keep on going if the bill passes, save for the few small hiccups that happen before things stabilize post legalization.

Being in the medical field and seeing all the new drugs that come out with horrible side effects and potential problems associated with them, Marijuana seems to be the safest choice for treatment in many cases.

The medical debate might be a back door for decriminalization/legalization efforts, but it's passed on the ballot in every state it's run in because people are smart enough to decide for themselves. Confronting the issue on a broader scale only makes sense if you truly look into the issue, the facts, the models from other countries, and the changing main stream consensus.

[Bruce Leroy]

lol @ a plant being illegal.



and lol @ people who drink alcohol and who are anti pot. alcohol is so much worse than pot it's ridiculous.


I concour

WHen I get high, I wanna sit around an relax, play video games or somethingt...

When i'm drunk, I get into fights.... and those beer goggles are a muther****er!!!!!!

[lilguy]

I also like to get baked, atleast twice a week and no addiction there.

right on bro :goodjob:

[alpine_aw11]

As a regular smoker I fully support the legalization of marijuana. The whole gateway drug argument only applies to the weak minded people who decide to indulge in drugs that are truly dangerous and harmful, which marijuana is not. Pot being illegal is only putting innocent people behind bars and has created a violent drug market. It astonishes me that while alcoholics are beating their wives and killing people in their cars that smoking pot is looked down upon by society. There has never been a reported death linked to smoking, while hundreds of thousands are killed every year by controlled substances(alcohol/tobacco) that you've never heard the government complain about. The government's illegalization of something that is mainly used for responsible recreational purposes has created all of the bad connotations that people associate with pot. It's not the plant's fault, it shouldn't be illegal and it's wrong to put people in jail for it. The American public and the government need to pull their heads out of their asses and realize that smoking weed needs to be the least of society's worries right now, we have much bigger problems on our hands. Continuing to waste money incarcerating responsible smokers is ridiculous and unfair to those who use it.

[BanginJimmy]

a little info from the CDC for those that think more people are killed by their bathtubs yearly than cigerettes.


http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/Factsheets/tobacco_related_mortality.htm

[alpine_aw11]

a little info from the CDC for those that think more people are killed by their bathtubs yearly than cigerettes.


http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/Factsheets/tobacco_related_mortality.htm

Anyone who thinks that is either retarded or a tobacco executive.

[Black4DrEK]

Mary J. Is a friend of Many... MiNE to the Fullest.... Legalize it.!!!!!!! its not as bad as most Drugs out there.... lIke ^^Bruce Leroy said drinkin probly causes ALOT MORE problems then Mary J... anyways.... Alpine Xj... I agree With you to the fullest.....



WEED IS GREAT:bannana:

[Revmaynard]

It's illegal. It will probably stay illegal. That's the way it should be.

lol @ potheads

I'd rather the world be full of potheads than child molesters. Just my :2cents:.

[DieselNuts]

And since the harder drugs are traded on the same black market it would hurt those who deal in harder drugs.
Im gonna have to disagree with this. A coke head isn't gonna quit doing coke and start smoking pot in its place because its legal. It doesn't work that way.

[DieselNuts]

those beer goggles are a muther****er!!!!!!
TROOF! :lmfao:

[j0natell0]

Mary Jane is the only girl i would let the homies hit! lololol

jk but i think the only reason its illegal is because they cant tax it..

[DieselNuts]

a little info from the CDC for those that think more people are killed by their bathtubs yearly than cigerettes.


http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/Factsheets/tobacco_related_mortality.htm
lol, I cant believe that guy said that. I've come in contact with second hand smoke thousands and thousands of times...not once in my 25 years have I ever fallen in the bathtub...


Actually, a real addiction is caused by your brain reacting to certain chemicals. Usually ones that cause the body to release endorphines(sp?) or dopamine, or that mimic the effects of them.

On another note: why should any drugs be illegal? What right does the government have to tell me what I can and cannot put in my body. If you take the position that alcohol and cigs and drugs kill people or are dangerous for your health, then why not outlaw cars, or even bathtubs. More people are killed by falling in their bathtubs than from cigs each year, and we all know how dangerous cars are. You know why pot was made illegal in the first place? Because the hemp industry threatened the paper industry in the 20's. Pot has only been illegal for about 90 yrs, as has cocaine and opiates.

Everyone should neg. rep this guy...

[Maniacc]

lol, you make me laugh. You try to make it a lose lose situation for me by writing that last sentence...nice try. You smoke cigs = you lose.
That is awesome! Maybe next time you're at the Three Legged Cowboy(A place located in midtown if you didn't know) you should tell your buddies about how cool you are because you refuse to smoke a cigarette. Oh and hey, after that tell him how fun it is for you to pound your mother in her ass while she's crying in tears and reading her bible. That'll give you GOD status for sure.
You got me. I'm 'FTL' because I choose to smoke. Sorry I can't make you happy, Sir. I'll try harder from now on. /Sarcasm. You act like you're in a level above me and can criticize me because of something I do. Not you, not your mother, not your friend, a complete stranger. Who you know nothing about. Continue living a wonderful life with clean lungs and I'll continue inhaling tobacco.

You're really showing me how much you don't care. Fantastic isn't it?


Actually, a real addiction is caused by your brain reacting to certain chemicals. Usually ones that cause the body to release endorphines(sp?) or dopamine, or that mimic the effects of them.
Addiction is a state in which the body relies on a substance for normal functioning and develops physical dependence. Endorphins(You almost spelled it right, not bad)are endogenous opioid polypeptide compounds. They are produced by the pituitary gland and the hypothalamus in verebrates during strenuous exercise, excitement, and orgasm. They resemble the opiates in their abilities to produce analgesia and a sense of well-being. Endorphins work as 'natural fever relievers.'

And dopamine is something completely wrong which shouldn't have even been thrown in there.

[The12lber]

Both alcohol and cigs should be illegal, in fact I would rather majijuana was legal and cigs were not. At least marijuana isnt physically addictive. Since pure tobacco isnt nearly as addictive as the niccotine laced cigs sold in the country now, I think that will eventually happen to marijuana.

I agree, cigs and alcohol should both still be illegal.

Afterall, when Alcohol was last illegalized, it wasn't produced, distributed, sold and consumed. And the aforementioned scenario didn't create a tremendous gap in the economy for organized crime to fill after legitimate business was forced out of it.

Oh wait, it did? So not only did prohibition not stop people from drinking, it actually created a tremendous niche in the market for the nefarious and inherently criminal black market to fill?

YES, YES IT DID. THIS IS COMMON KNOWLEDGE. HOW ARE YOU SO STUPID?

This is really all there is to be said about this matter.

[Mike Lowrey]

Support Barney Frank's Personal Use Act!

Marijuana decriminalization bill gaining support in Congress..

July 30, 2008

Barney FrankMPP's Rob Kampia and Congressman Barney Frank (D-Mass.) held a press conference to support H.R. 5843, the Personal Use of Marijuana by Responsible Adults Act of 2008...


You and this bill are retarded. I have highlighted the Major flaw in this bill!

[uproot]

You and this bill are retarded. I have highlighted the Major flaw in this bill!

How is that the Major Flaw?

I guess that's the same flaw that allows responsible adults to drink alcohol, huh?

[bigdare23]

How is that the Major Flaw?

I guess that's the same flaw that allows responsible adults to drink alcohol, huh?

OwNeD :lmfao:

[Total_Blender]

Im gonna have to disagree with this. A coke head isn't gonna quit doing coke and start smoking pot in its place because its legal. It doesn't work that way.

I wasn't saying that decriminalized pot would cause people to stop doing harder drugs. I was saying that decriminalizing pot and opening up a channel for legal distribution would hurt drug dealers.

The black market for pot would be seriously affected by the opening of a legal market. Since the same people who sell pot are also selling meth, coke, heroin, X, etc then if the black market for pot goes bust the market for hard drugs will be negatively effected because selling drugs will become less profitable overall.

To put it another way, if I sold ricer parts for half the price of Pep Boys, the change in price would not only affect Pep Boys' ricer part sales, it would affect price in other areas of their business as well such as batteries and tires.

[DieselNuts]

You got me. I'm 'FTL' because I choose to smoke. Sorry I can't make you happy, Sir. I'll try harder from now on. /Sarcasm. You act like you're in a level above me and can criticize me because of something I do. Not you, not your mother, not your friend, a complete stranger. Who you know nothing about. Continue living a wonderful life with clean lungs and I'll continue inhaling tobacco.

You're really showing me how much you don't care. Fantastic isn't it?
Awesome that you add bullshiit to my post :rolleyes: again, you are getting defensive because you said that you "can quit if you want to" and I said "I've heard that before". I dont see what your problem is.

[Mike Lowrey]

How is that the Major Flaw?

I guess that's the same flaw that allows responsible adults to drink alcohol, huh?

Exactly.

People drive drunk. People drive drunk and kill others due to their stupidity.


The Major Flaw, for the slow minded like yourself, is that very few are truely responsible adults. :goodjob:

[Mike Lowrey]

OwNeD :lmfao:

Refer to my post above, moron. :goodjob:

[Ran]

I'd rather the world be full of potheads than child molesters. Just my :2cents:.I'd rather both be done away with personally.

The difference here is that I just joke on the pedo thing while the potheads in this thread are, in fact, actually stupid.

:goodjob:

[Deke]

Addiction is a state in which the body relies on a substance for normal functioning and develops physical dependence. Endorphins(You almost spelled it right, not bad)are endogenous opioid polypeptide compounds. They are produced by the pituitary gland and the hypothalamus in verebrates during strenuous exercise, excitement, and orgasm. They resemble the opiates in their abilities to produce analgesia and a sense of well-being. Endorphins work as 'natural fever relievers.'

And dopamine is something completely wrong which shouldn't have even been thrown in there.

I commend you for your dragon level wikipedia copy and paste skills.

Chill out, I promise you that no one on here (including DiesNuts) cares if you smoke tobacco or not. You just have to realize how ridiculous of a claim it is to say that you're not addicted yet have quit multiple times (hence restarted multiple times). That is all. Let it go.




As for the original topic, I'm kind of conflicted. Generally, yes, I do believe that it should be legalized. Like multiple people have posted, making it illegal has caused nothing but a black market to form (much like prohibition). Legalizing it, I believe, would reduce crime. As for hard drugs, they should stay illegal. The addictive properties and effects of cocaine and heroin for instance lead to irrational thinking. A junky will do anything to get their next fix. The difference between this and a hobo stealing for food (as someone mentioned earlier) is that someone who is hungry is still in their right mind. Someone who is going through heroin withdrawal is bat**** crazy. Sure a lot of money is spent fighting the flow of hard drugs in the US, but I feel that it's a noble battle.

When comparing alcohol to cannabis, I do agree that in the short term alcohol can be more damaging. Physical and sexual violence are defintiely linked with being drunk and definitely not with being stoned. Driving under the influence of either substance is absolutely retarded so that argument against drinking is null and void.

However, I'm a little worried about the societal and long term effects of legalization of weed. Smoking makes you absolutely worthless. This is something I wouldn't have really believed myself until visiting Amsterdam three weeks ago. I had smoked before on rare occasions, but never like that weekend. And I wouldn't be surprised if I never smoked again.

Both substances are bad. Personally if I'm planning on abusing a substance, I'd choose alcohol any day of the week. If I'm going to be retarded, I'd at least like to be social while I am and not sit around playing Wii all day. Ultimately, however, I don't believe either substance would be the downfall of society.


This got a little long, so cliffs:
-Abandon needs to cool it
-weed should be legalized (coming from someone who wouldn't smoke it)
-Hard drugs should stay illegal
-alcohol and weed are both bad, but not horrible

[Mike Lowrey]

I'd rather both be done away with personally.

The difference here is that I just joke on the pedo thing while the potheads in this thread are, in fact, actually stupid.

:goodjob:

QFT

[DieselNuts]

the potheads in this thread are, in fact, actually stupid.
I cant speak for the people in this thread, but I have friends that smoke wiid regularly that are very intelligent. Saying that all potheads are stupid isn't an accurate statement at all. I myself have quit smoking pot just over a month ago, but I still have no problem with the people that do smoke it.

[Ran]

Why are people using the "black market" as an excuse to legalize something? That is the dumbest reasoning you could even come up with. There is a black market for ANYTHING that is illegal. Pot, cocaine, child pornography, stolen car parts, and anything else you can name.

So we should just legalize everything because there's going to be a black market for it anyway right? Yeah, that makes a load of sense. :rolleyes:


I cant speak for the people in this thread, but I have friends that smoke wiid regularly that are very very intelligent. Saying that all potheads are stupid isn't an accurate statement at all. I myself have quit smoking pot just over a month ago, but I still have no problem with the people that do smoke it.A person can be intelligent and still be f*cking stupid. A guy with a degree from Harvard can be intelligent as all hell but, if he becomes an alcoholic, then he's still f*cking stupid. :goodjob:

[DieselNuts]

I commend you for your dragon level wikipedia copy and paste skills.

Chill out, I promise you that no one on here (including DiesNuts) cares if you smoke tobacco or not. You just have to realize how ridiculous of a claim it is to say that you're not addicted yet have quit multiple times (hence restarted multiple times). That is all. Let it go.




As for the original topic, I'm kind of conflicted. Generally, yes, I do believe that it should be legalized. Like multiple people have posted, making it illegal has caused nothing but a black market to form (much like prohibition). Legalizing it, I believe, would reduce crime. As for hard drugs, they should stay illegal. The addictive properties and effects of cocaine and heroin for instance lead to irrational thinking. A junky will do anything to get their next fix. The difference between this and a hobo stealing for food (as someone mentioned earlier) is that someone who is hungry is still in their right mind. Someone who is going through heroin withdrawal is bat**** crazy. Sure a lot of money is spent fighting the flow of hard drugs in the US, but I feel that it's a noble battle.

When comparing alcohol to cannabis, I do agree that in the short term alcohol can be more damaging. Physical and sexual violence are defintiely linked with being drunk and definitely not with being stoned. Driving under the influence of either substance is absolutely retarded so that argument against drinking is null and void.

However, I'm a little worried about the societal and long term effects of legalization of weed. Smoking makes you absolutely worthless. This is something I wouldn't have really believed myself until visiting Amsterdam three weeks ago. I had smoked before on rare occasions, but never like that weekend. And I wouldn't be surprised if I never smoked again.

Both substances are bad. Personally if I'm planning on abusing a substance, I'd choose alcohol any day of the week. If I'm going to be retarded, I'd at least like to be social while I am and not sit around playing Wii all day. Ultimately, however, I don't believe either substance would be the downfall of society.


This got a little long, so cliffs:
-Abondon needs to cool it
-weed should be legalized (coming from someone who wouldn't smoke it)
-Hard drugs should stay illegal
-alcohol and weed are both bad, but not horrible
Quoted for the mother fuking truth. Very well said :cheers:

[Deke]

Why are people using the "black market" as an excuse to legalize something? That is the dumbest reasoning you could even come up with. There is a black market for ANYTHING that is illegal. Pot, cocaine, child pornography, stolen car parts, and anything else you can name.

So we should just legalize everything because there's going to be a black market for it anyway right? Yeah, that makes a load of sense. :rolleyes:

You're absolutely right, of course that logic makes no sense. I just think it's a little silly (lol, "silly") to force a black market to emerge around something that isn't a serious threat to unwilling individuals or society (pot).


A person can be intelligent and still be f*cking stupid. A guy with a degree from Harvard can be intelligent as all hell but, if he becomes an alchoholic, then he's still f*cking stupid. :goodjob:

Haha, agreed.

[Ran]

You're absolutely right, of course that logic makes no sense. I just think it's a little silly (lol, "silly") to force a black market to emerge around something that isn't a serious threat to unwilling individuals or society (pot).That comes down to perspective and stance on what is bad and what isn't. Anyone can defend anything if they research and gain the proper knowledge. However, one thing being "less bad" than the rest doesn't automatically make it "not bad". I personally feel that weed is a stupid substance and should be controlled. I'm glad that the law agrees with me. I feel the same way about alcohol to be honest. I may have a drink every now and then to be social but, if it were to become illegal, I would stop drinking completely and then take great pleasure in watching alcoholics get busted.

[DieselNuts]

A person can be intelligent and still be f*cking stupid. A guy with a degree from Harvard can be intelligent as all hell but, if he becomes an alchoholic, then he's still f*cking stupid. :goodjob:
good point :cheers:

[BanginJimmy]

Why are people using the "black market" as an excuse to legalize something? That is the dumbest reasoning you could even come up with. There is a black market for ANYTHING that is illegal. Pot, cocaine, child pornography, stolen car parts, and anything else you can name.

So we should just legalize everything because there's going to be a black market for it anyway right? Yeah, that makes a load of sense. :rolleyes:




I said the same thing earlier. It seems that some people think that just because something is readily available anyways it should be legal for the govt to tax it.

Alcohol and marijuana are 2 very different things. A bootlegger isnt going to be able to get bud light cans to package his illegal alcohol, but someone making their money off illegal weed would be able to package it as if it is a legal substance and sell it at a far lower price. For example, pack of marlboro's over in japan cost about about $1.25 when I was there, they were costing over $3.00 on base. As a result, the PX didnt sell many cigs, as the smokers would walk off base to get their cigs at less than half the price.

requirements for this new industry:
a. New regulatory body under the fed govt
b. increase the budget of the ATF for smugglers
c. increased costs of healthcare as marijuana has 10x the tar as a cig

[Deke]

Alcohol and marijuana are 2 very different things. A bootlegger isnt going to be able to get bud light cans to package his illegal alcohol, but someone making their money off illegal weed would be able to package it as if it is a legal substance and sell it at a far lower price. For example, pack of marlboro's over in japan cost about about $1.25 when I was there, they were costing over $3.00 on base. As a result, the PX didnt sell many cigs, as the smokers would walk off base to get their cigs at less than half the price.


Sure, the average joe couldn't bootleg cans, but bottles certainly aren't hard (coming from someone who's dabbled in home brewing), and kegs wouldn't be either. And yet, I don't see any of that going on in the US. I also don't see bootleg tobacco in the US for that matter, and it's taxed out the ass.

I'm sure there still would be some black market contingency if pot was legalized, but the fact of the matter is that it would be a lot less. The majority of people wouldn't run the the added risk of buying something illegally when they can get a product they can trust for a few dollars more. To reference Amsterdam again, no one was selling weed on the street. They wouldn't make any money because you could buy quality stuff in any coffee shop.

PS I appreciate the intelligent debate :goodjob:

[BanginJimmy]

I'm sure there still would be some black market contingency if pot was legalized, but the fact of the matter is that it would be a lot less. The majority of people wouldn't run the the added risk of buying something illegally when they can get a product they can trust for a few dollars more. To reference Amsterdam again, no one was selling weed on the street. They wouldn't make any money because you could buy quality stuff in any coffee shop.

when the price would be half of what it would cost legally then I seriously doubt that it would make a real dent in the illegal trade.

[Deke]

when the price would be half of what it would cost legally then I seriously doubt that it would make a real dent in the illegal trade.

Maybe, but like I said, I've still never seen a prevalence of bootleg beer or tobacco in the US:dunno:

And just to nip it in the bud in the case of it coming up, I would not consider illegal file sharing to be in the same category, since you don't actually have to do the the physical act of meeting with a dealer to get it.

Edit: I'm not condoning illegal file sharing. I'm just saying that it's far easier to do (and takes a lot less drive) than it does to deal in illegal substances (or anything physical), hence the reason that it is so prevalent.

[Total_Blender]

when the price would be half of what it would cost legally then I seriously doubt that it would make a real dent in the illegal trade.

But would selling half price weed be worth the time and bother. If people went from making $6 a gram to making $3/gram do you think they would bother with it anymore? It wouldn't be profitable at all lol.

[DieselNuts]

But would selling half price weed be worth the time and bother. If people went from making $6 a gram to making $3/gram do you think they would bother with it anymore? It wouldn't be profitable at all lol.
Thats what I was about to say...

[eViLMunkey]

I'm voting for it to be decriminalized here in MA, and I think it really should be. Alcohol causes more deaths and other incidents per year that marijuana has. Also the want to smoke it is going to drop mainly due to it being legal. There are more Pro's to weed than Con's..

[eViLMunkey]

But would selling half price weed be worth the time and bother. If people went from making $6 a gram to making $3/gram do you think they would bother with it anymore? It wouldn't be profitable at all lol.


Then grow it your damn self:slap:

[BanginJimmy]

But would selling half price weed be worth the time and bother. If people went from making $6 a gram to making $3/gram do you think they would bother with it anymore? It wouldn't be profitable at all lol.


Thats not exactly true, the price on the streets will still be $6/gram, the price in the store will be closer to $12 to pay the added costs of doing business, then added taxes.

[BOBA-GA-NUSH]

Check this out.

http://www.mpp.org/victims/ (http://www.mpp.org/victims/)

Just take a minute and see what you might learn.
These are just some of the victims.

[Total_Blender]

Thats not exactly true, the price on the streets will still be $6/gram, the price in the store will be closer to $12 to pay the added costs of doing business, then added taxes.

The production costs for pot are pretty low, less than tobacco and a whole lot less than beer. Its a weed that will grow anywhere, so much so that you can toss pot seeds out the window and have plants sprouting within a week.:lmfao:

Its the risk of doing business that keeps the price high. It wouldn't make sense for a legal vendor to charge much more for pot than street value. Its true a legal source will undoubtedly be more expensive than street value but most users would be willing to pay a premium for:

1.) constant supply (not having to worry about a supplier running out)
2.) safe product (not laced with any other drugs)
3.) consistent product quality (no weak stuff)
4.) safe transactions (no dealing with tweakers)

The Government couldn't put an end to the illegal liquor market during prohibition. But that market collapsed when prohibition was repealed. :goodjob:

[The12lber]

Why are people using the "black market" as an excuse to legalize something? That is the dumbest reasoning you could even come up with. There is a black market for ANYTHING that is illegal. Pot, cocaine, child pornography, stolen car parts, and anything else you can name.

Are you seriously comparing marijuana to chop shops and people taking pictures of kids naked?

So we should just legalize everything because there's going to be a black market for it anyway right? Yeah, that makes a load of sense. :rolleyes:

If they're going to do it anyway, and its not really a big deal, yeah?
Maybe prostitution should be legal so that way prostitutes don't get beaten up by pimps and forced by organized crime into white slavery. But wait, you're one of those smart people who would make something illegal solely on principle I'm sure.

A person can be intelligent and still be f*cking stupid. A guy with a degree from Harvard can be intelligent as all hell but, if he becomes an alcoholic, then he's still f*cking stupid. :goodjob:

Alright big guy, we'll make alcohol illegal for you, too. That worked out well last time.

Get over your narrow minded virtues and accept it. MARIJUANA IS NOT A BIG DEAL. More bad consequences find origin in its illicit nature than the consumption of the drug. A lot more. Conversely, kiddy porn and theft are just inherently bad. Not a good comparison on your part. Oh, and lets not forget the constant civil war our illegal drug money funds in Colombia.

Oh, and the reason its illegal? Because they (Congress) lumped in hemp along with Marijuana when they made it illegal, it was a threat to their friends in the emerging synthetic textile market.

As a side note, Cocaine is illegal because the Congress was afraid of "cocainized *******" raping white women and generally behaving poorly.

[eViLMunkey]

Personally I'd rather smoke weed than have to take highly addictive pain-killers for my back pain (herniated disc from when I totaled my Impreza). The victims list is full of some screwed up crap that has happened, and that's only a handful of charges and misinformation that has happened throughout the years. Luckily over the years doctor's have made more discoveries for the drug(plant) the lean more in the pro-legalization/decriminalization or marijuana.

[Ran]

EDIT: Actually, I'm bored so I'll elaborate a little more.


Alright big guy, we'll make alcohol illegal for you, too. That worked out well last time.So you're comparing modern society and law enforcement to what it was 80 years ago? Nice.


Oh, and lets not forget the constant civil war our illegal drug money funds in Colombia.Who cares about Columbia and why did you bring them up? However, since you're bringing it up. How exactly does it feel to be supporting this civil war?


Oh, and the reason its illegal? Because they (Congress) lumped in hemp along with Marijuana when they made it illegal, it was a threat to their friends in the emerging synthetic textile market.On this note, I do believe that hemp should be permissible for economical purposes like textile and what-not. As an actual resource, it can be very valuable. I've stated that in older threads as well.


As a side note, Cocaine is illegal because the Congress was afraid of "cocainized *******" raping white women and generally behaving poorly.So cocaine should now be legalized because it was made illegal over a supposedly racist standing?


Get over your narrow minded virtues and accept it. MARIJUANA IS NOT A BIG DEAL.In your opinion. Unfortunately for you, the law is on my side. So you can sit here and try to rationalize it all you want. At the end of the day, I still win. Accept that.

[eViLMunkey]

I've got one simple response to The12lber's post.

In your opinion. Unfortunately for you, the law is on my side. So you can sit here and try to rationalize it all you want. At the end of the day, I still win. Accept that.


But coming November you might not win, but till then... I'm still glad it's taken as not a huge deal here in MA

[Total_Blender]

I've got one simple response to The12lber's post.

In your opinion. Unfortunately for you, the law is on my side. So you can sit here and try to rationalize it all you want. At the end of the day, I still win. Accept that.

And at the end of the day people still get high, legal or not. Not a whole lot you can do to stop it there champ. :taun::lmfao:

[Ran]

But coming November you might not win, but till then...These guys can get their hopes up all they want. It's not going to pass and we all know it.

[Ran]

And at the end of the day people still get high, legal or not. Not a whole lot you can do to stop it there champ. :taun::lmfao:Actually I had the pleasure of making an anonymous phone call that busted a 4/20 party near my residence. It was quite an enjoyable evening.

[Total_Blender]

Actually I had the pleasure making an anonymous phone call that busted a 4/20 party near my residence. It was quite an enjoyable evening.

Didn't get invited so you narc'd everyone out? :police:

[Ran]

Didn't get invited so you narc'd everyone out? :police:lol, yeah because I really wanted to smoke pot and eat Cheetos with a bunch of degenerates. :lmao:

[Total_Blender]

lol, yeah because I really wanted to smoke pot and eat Cheetos with a bunch of degenerates. :lmao:

And they probably didn't want to check out kiddie porn with you :lmfao:

[DrivenMind]

There's a lot of misinformation surrounding Cannabis, and a lot of people tend to forget how the very idea was sold to the American public.

Here are some quotes from the Director of the Federal Bureau of Narcotics, who was responsible for making Cannabis illegal.

“Reefer makes darkies think they are good as white men.”
-Henry J. Anslinger
Director in Chief, Federal Bureau of Narcotics, 1929

“In some districts, inhabited by Latin Americans, Filipinos, Spaniards and negroes, half the violent crimes are attributed to the marijuana craze. Dr. Lee Rice of san Antonio reports that eighty percent of all the murders committed by Mexicans are done while the killers are drugged by marijuana.”
-The Christian Century, June 29th, 1938

“Marijuana leads to pacifism and communist brain washing.”
-Henry J. Anslinger
Director in Chief, Federal Bureau of Narcotics, 1948

Sounds like the case for Cannabis was determined by a lot of legitimate concerns from the medical community at the time, doesn't it? Did you know that when it was made illegal in 1937 it was done so, against the advice of the American Medical Association.

"Evidence of unwarranted, illogical, and deviant discrimination against Cannabis dates back to when the United States government, and scheming prohibitionists actually coined the term “Marijuana” for use in the U.S., instead of referring to the drug by it’s legitimate name. In 1930, a man named Henry Anslinger was named director of the newly created Federal Bureau of Narcotics. Noted by many for being exceptionally ambitious, Henry knew he had just been given the career opportunity of a life time; a position as director in a newly founded branch of the United States Treasury Department. Knowing his agency wouldn’t survive if the only illegal narcotics they had to deal with were cocaine, and opiates, Anslinger set out to vilify, and make illegal as many drugs as possible. After all the more illegal drugs there were to look after, and attempt to control, the more work there would be for the budding Federal Bureau of Narcotics; and the more work there was for the Bureau of Narcotics, the more work, and job opportunities there would be for Henry Anslinger, an exceptionally ambitious man." -Robert Graham 3/11/2007

The point of calling it "Marijuana" was to play off the racial prejudices of the period. All the scare easy whites, would more readily take a stand to have it made illegal if they thought it was some foreign "Hispanic" trend, that made people insane, and treaded on their irrational racial values.


No such thing as a non-violent drug offender. Marijuana isnt enarly as bad as harder drugs, but it does lead to crimes.

That's an unbelievably ignorant statement, one that will force me to not take you seriously in this discussion, because clearly your opinion is not well founded, much less informed. But assuming you are correct (and you not) lets go ahead and ask ourselves a question. Has alcohol ever caused or inspired violence? If you didn't answer "yes", end yourself now.



Crack is readily available too. Should that be legal also?
Horrendously moronic argument. Do you realize one of the most powerful hallucinogenic drugs in the world is sold under the trade name "Benodryl"? Probably not. Do you realize school children are prescribed stimulants that are of the same classification as cocaine, but totally legal, and abused like sugar? Probably not.

A Schedule 1 Drug, is classified by the Control Substances Act as a substance meeting one of the following three criteria;
a)”The drug or substance has a high potential for abuse.
b) The drug or substance has no currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States.
c) There is a lack of accepted safety for use of the drug or other substance under medical supervision.” 3/17/07 - Robert Graham

Cannabis sits in the same legal drug classification group as GHB, DMT, Heroin, and Ecstasy. All of which are far more hazardous to the health of a human being, and all of which posses’ significant addictive traits.

Now considering the people who have done research on the subject (The US doesn't allow it) have found that's it's effects are neither as significantly inhibitory as alcohol, nor seriously addictive, nor as detrimental to the body as nicotine; wouldn't that suggest that we AT LEAST reschedule it? Shouldn't we at the least consider an honest medical investigation into what might come from it? I guess not. I guess we should just keep locking huge numbers of people up for getting "high", and encouraging them to get drunk. Of course when you get trashed in a city without a real public transportation system, you've got to find a way to get home. I wonder how most people do it... (/sarcasm)

Up until about three years ago I seriously disliked Cannabis, and truly believed all the reefer madness bull**** they feed to you in highschool. I thought it made people stupid, crazy, lazy, and pathetically unmotivated. Then it occurred to me when I was researching the drugs I was prescribed that, "Well if my doctor is going to prescribe me all these drugs that are quite dangerous, and half of the time don't work. Why shouldn't I look elsewhere and formulate my own opinion."

If you drink socially, or smoke cigarettes what makes you think that "marijuana" is more dangerous than the psychoactive substances you are already putting into your body?

[DrivenMind]

Actually I had the pleasure of making an anonymous phone call that busted a 4/20 party near my residence. It was quite an enjoyable evening.

Wow... And to think I really thought you were a pretty open minded dude at one time. I'm sure they deserved all the punishment they got after your little anonymous phone call. Being degenerates and all. I wonder how many people at the party received prison sentences, and serious fines for smoking pot with their friends. I'm sure they were doing so much to harm you, and disrupt your peace of mind.

I hope you're capable of imagining what it would be like if someone called the cops on you and your social circle of friends for drinking booze, while prohibition was enacted. Not only that. But lets use our imagination here and imagine that beer was illegal because the person who sought to make it that way, did so for personal reasons, using racial prejudice as a key social motivator.

So here's the real question. What did they do you warrant you calling the cops on them besides getting a little loud on 4/20? If you have a legitimate reason, then I'll be able to understand that, but if you did it just to "bust" them, I'm quite disappointed. You probably screwed a bunch of peoples lives up in a way you're unable to understand or empathize with.

[Ran]

Wow... And to think I really thought you were a pretty open minded dude at one time. I'm sure they deserved all the punishment they got after your little anonymous phone call. Being degenerates and all. I wonder how many people at the party received prison sentences, and serious fines for smoking pot with their friends. I'm sure they were doing so much to harm you, and disrupt your peace of mind.Aside from a majority of the people there being underaged? Nah, didn't bother me a bit. Having fewer losers around the block exposing this crap to young teens is always good in my book.


I hope you're capable of imagining what it would be like if someone called the cops on you and your social circle of friends for drinking booze, while prohibition was enacted. Not only that. But lets use our imagination here and imagine that beer was illegal because the person who sought to make it that way, did so for personal reasons, using racial prejudice as a key social motivator.Let's start with the first part of this hypothetical situation. If it was illegal, I wouldn't be drinking it. I would have absolutely no problem with alcohol being on the same list as marijuana.


So here's the real question. What did they do you warrant you calling the cops on them besides getting a little loud on 4/20? If you have a legitimate reason, then I'll be able to understand that, but if you did it just to "bust" them, I'm quite disappointed. You probably screwed a bunch of peoples lives up in a way you're unable to understand or empathize with.See my first response. Also, I don't feel bad for them at all. They chose to smoke illegally so they get what they get. I just hurried things along.

[DrivenMind]

In your opinion. Unfortunately for you, the law is on my side. So you can sit here and try to rationalize it all you want. At the end of the day, I still win. Accept that.

The law also states that there should be a 55 mile per hour speed limit on most of our highways. Clearly just because something is "law" doesn't mean it is, or should be obeyed. When was the last time you saw someone doing 55 on an interstate highway within 40 miles of Atlanta?

[Ran]

The law also states that there should be a 55 mile per hour speed limit on most of our highways. Clearly just because something is "law" doesn't mean it is, or should be obeyed. When was the last time you saw someone doing 55 on an interstate highway within 40 miles of Atlanta?So? I'll drive 69 in a 55. I'll break it down like this though:

Q) Will I get a ticket for driving 65-69 in a 55 zone?
A) Probably not, but legally I can be pulled over and fined.

Q) Does general acceptance make it okay for me to speed?
A) Legally, no. If I get pulled over then I'll accept my ticket. I won't be happy about it, but I'll pay it because I'm still wrong.

Q) Am I going to b*tch about the speed limit?
A) Unlike the people in this thread complaining about pot, no I'm not. I accept the law and keep on moving.

Q) If someone called the police and said I was doing 68 in a 55 and I get pulled over, would that be wrong?
A) Can't blame the person that called because I was the one speeding. Sucks for me, but oh well.

:)

[DrivenMind]

Aside from a majority of the people there being underaged? Nah, didn't bother me a bit. Having fewer losers around the block exposing this crap to young teens is always good in my book.

So I take it, before you called the police you went over and checked IDs, just to make sure your assumption of them being "under aged" was correct, and accurately founded? Or did you just guess based on the look of the "losers" that they were underaged, and deserved to suffer persecution from this rednecks states finest. Your "losers" comment shows your prejudice.


Let's start with the first part of this hypothetical situation. If it was illegal, I wouldn't be drinking it. I would have absolutely no problem with alcohol being on the same list as marijuana.

So according to your logic, the law is in all cases the supreme intellectual authority on what people should and shouldn't do with their own bodies, in the privacy of their own lives. Does it not occur to you that the law isn't always objective, or unbiased? I wonder if the the Japanese thought it was fair when they were locked up in Interment Camps based on irrational thinking, and racial discrimination alone. Do you think that kind of bull**** would stand today?


See my first response. Also, I don't feel bad for them at all. They chose to smoke illegally so they get what they get. I just hurried things along. Something tells me you'd feel differently if you'd ever be persecuted for victim less crime, or had to spend countless hours of your life in court being prosecuted when no harm was done.

[DrivenMind]

So? I'll drive 69 in a 55. I'll break it down like this though:

Q) Will I get a ticket for driving 65-69 in a 55 zone?
A) Probably not, but legally I can be pulled over and fined.

Q) Does general acceptance make it okay for me to speed?
A) Legally, no. If I get pulled over then I'll accept my ticket. I won't be happy about it, but I'll pay it because I'm still wrong.

Q) Am I going to b*tch about the speed limit?
A) Unlike the people in this thread complaining about pot, no I'm not. I accept the law and keep on moving.

Q) If someone called the police and said I was doing 68 in a 55 and I get pulled over, would that be wrong?
A) Can't blame the person that called because I was the one speeding. Sucks for me, but oh well.

:)

Sounds like an awfully submissive viewpoint to take, but to each his own I suppose. If you want to pretend that politicians always have your best interests in mind feel free to do so, but history has a way of showing us that isn't always the case. Sometimes laws are made for no good reason at all.

[Ran]

So I take it, before you called the police you went over and checked IDs, just to make sure your assumption of them being "under aged" was correct, and accurately founded? Or did you just guess based on the look of the "losers" that they were underaged, and deserved to suffer persecution from this rednecks states finest. Your "losers" comment shows your prejudice.Blantant obviousness was reason enough.

As far as my prejudice goes; Yes, I do consider them all to be losers. However turn about is fair play so feel free to think what you want of me.


So the law according to your logic, the law is in all cases the supreme intellectual authority on what people should and shouldn't do with their own bodies, in the privacy of their own lives. Does it not occur to you that the law isn't always objective, or unbiased? I wonder if the the Japanese thought it was fair when they were locked up in Interment Camps based on irrational thinking, and racial discrimination alone. Do you think that kind of bull**** would stand today?The law is the law. Is it objective or biased sometimes? Sure, but that's just too bad. Break the law go to jail. Don't like it? Move somewhere else. End of story.


Something tells me you'd feel differently if you'd ever be persecuted for victim less crime, or had to spend countless hours of your life in court being prosecuted when no harm was done.Yes, no harm was done aside from the distribution of an illegal substance to young teens around the area. Also, hypotheticals are really a waste of time man. "What if's" can be used to turn anything around as a less than effective counter argument. They're good for fun topics, but not so much for things like this.


Sounds like an awfully submissive viewpoint to take, but to each his own I suppose. If you want to pretend that politicians always have your best interests in mind feel free to do so, but history has a way of showing us that isn't always the case. Sometimes laws are made for no good reason at all.Don't get me wrong, I'm well aware that politicians can be corrupt and what-not. I'll also voice an opinion on certain matters from time to time. However, if something is illegal then I will abide by the law despite the means by which the law was implemented. That's just how I am. My self-interest mindset will do nothing but get me in trouble if my activities are illegal. Should things come to such a sh*tty situation to where I can't stand it anymore, I'll move.

[DrivenMind]

Blantant obviousness was reason enough.

As far as my prejudice goes, yes I do consider them all to be losers. Turn about is fair play so feel free to think what you want of me.

But still without actual evidence to support this claim, you didn't know for sure if they were underage or not. It was an assumption based on a circumstantial observation alone.


The law is the law. End of story. Is it objective or biased sometimes? Sure, but that's just too bad. Break the law go to jail. End of story. End of story? I think not, the people that shape and reform the laws in this country as the people who stand up against them when they're ridiculous. Again, just because an authority figure says their word is "law" means it should be followed blindly, without consideration?

Didn't the "law" in this country lock people up in the late 60s for distributing birth control? Because back then didn't only "losers" and "degenerates" would want to wear condoms too? And they did all that "harm" by having sex without the risk of unplanned pregnancy.


Yes, no harm was done aside from the distribution of an illegal substance to young teens around the area. Also, hypotheticals are really a waste of time man.
You still failed to verify where there was harm was done to any parties. Was there property damage involved? Did someone get hurt? Where is your proof that someone was doing harm? You sound like Ronald Regan.


"What if's" can be used to turn anything around as a less than effective counter argument. What ifs are also how accepted social norms and beliefs, are brought into the public spotlight for closer analysis, and scrutiny. Is that not the point of something like philosophy?

"What if we tried to land on the moon?"

"What if all men were created equal, and we gave equal voting rights to blacks?"

"What is slavery is wrong?"

"What if we opposed British rule?"

"What if gays aren't immoral people or a hazard to the "American family"?"

[Deke]

I'm going to agree with Ran that the law is the law. Everyone that smokes know that they are breaking the law and should be willing to accept the consequences if they are caught. Do I necessarily agree with the law, no. Do I think anonymously phoning in info about a party is a rather douchetastic thing to do, yes. Regardless though, they could have easily chosen not to break it.

The law is the law, no matter how much it sucks, and breaking it out of defiance on a small scale isn't going to change anything.

And before anyone jumps on my case, read my previous posts. I think cannabis should be legal.

[BanginJimmy]

There's a lot of misinformation surrounding Cannabis, and a lot of people tend to forget how the very idea was sold to the American public.

Here are some quotes from the Director of the Federal Bureau of Narcotics, who was responsible for making Cannabis illegal.

“Reefer makes darkies think they are good as white men.”
-Henry J. Anslinger
Director in Chief, Federal Bureau of Narcotics, 1929

“In some districts, inhabited by Latin Americans, Filipinos, Spaniards and negroes, half the violent crimes are attributed to the marijuana craze. Dr. Lee Rice of san Antonio reports that eighty percent of all the murders committed by Mexicans are done while the killers are drugged by marijuana.”
-The Christian Century, June 29th, 1938

“Marijuana leads to pacifism and communist brain washing.”
-Henry J. Anslinger
Director in Chief, Federal Bureau of Narcotics, 1948

ran already answered to this so no point me me saying the saem thing.





That's an unbelievably ignorant statement, one that will force me to not take you seriously in this discussion, because clearly your opinion is not well founded, much less informed.

If you actually read what I was answering to, you would know that I was simply priving a point. Its very simple, just because someone is readily available doesnt mean it should be legal.


But assuming you are correct (and you not) lets go ahead and ask ourselves a question. Has alcohol ever caused or inspired violence? If you didn't answer "yes", end yourself now.

Alcohol does in fact cause people to be violent. I cant think of a single valid arguement against criminalizing alcohol and tobacco under the same statutes that are used to criminalize cocaine.



Horrendously moronic argument. Do you realize one of the most powerful hallucinogenic drugs in the world is sold under the trade name "Benodryl"? Probably not. Do you realize school children are prescribed stimulants that are of the same classification as cocaine, but totally legal, and abused like sugar? Probably not.

A Schedule 1 Drug, is classified by the Control Substances Act as a substance meeting one of the following three criteria;
a)”The drug or substance has a high potential for abuse.
b) The drug or substance has no currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States.
c) There is a lack of accepted safety for use of the drug or other substance under medical supervision.” 3/17/07 - Robert Graham

And all of those drugs are controlled substances, just like cocaine. The difference is, there is PROVEN medicinal uses for them. Not possible medicinal uses.


Cannabis sits in the same legal drug classification group as GHB, DMT, Heroin, and Ecstasy. All of which are far more hazardous to the health of a human being, and all of which posses’ significant addictive traits.

"Classification decisions are required to be made on the criteria of potential for abuse, accepted medical use in the United States, and potential for dependence."

I think that explains why marijuana would fall under a schedule I drug. And I have bolded it to make sure you knew what you were pasting.



Now considering the people who have done research on the subject (The US doesn't allow it) have found that's it's effects are neither as significantly inhibitory as alcohol, nor seriously addictive, nor as detrimental to the body as nicotine;

You are going to have to show me a reference on this one. Its widely known that marijuana is worse because you hold it in your lungs longer.


wouldn't that suggest that we AT LEAST reschedule it?

no, for reasons already stated.


If you drink socially, or smoke cigarettes what makes you think that "marijuana" is more dangerous than the psychoactive substances you are already putting into your body?

no one said it was, in fact, you will find that most people are in 100% agreement that alcohol is worse. But it is still legal.

[DrivenMind]

I'm getting Taco Bell. I will systematically reply to you guys upon my return.

[Ran]

But you still didn't know for sure if they were underage or not.I'll take my chances and bet I made a correct assumption.


End of story? I think not, the people that shape and reform the laws in this country as the people who stand up against them when they're ridiculous. Again, just because an authority figure says their word is "law" means it should be followed blindly, without consideration?This law isn't rediculous. It's just the rediculous people that keep crying about their precious drug.


You still failed to verify where there was harm was done to any parties. Was there property damage involved? Did someone get hurt? Where is your proof that someone was doing harm? You sound like Ronald Regan.They're exposing underaged kids to an illegal substance thus integrating them into a law-breaking situation. Yeah, no harm there. :rolleyes:


What ifs are also how accepted social norms and beliefs, are brought into the public spotlight for closer analysis, and scrutiny. Is that not the point of something like philosophy?Your previous "what if's" do not correspond with the examples you just provided. There are different types of "what if's"

[Total_Blender]

Why don't you go rat out all the street racers on the killsforum. See how well liked you are on this site after that.:goodjob:

Expect retribution from those kids. They probably know it was you who narc'd on them:lmfao:

[DrivenMind]

I'll take my chances and bet I made a correct assumption. Again, just because you assume there was no flaw in your judgment doesn't mean there isn't any.


This law isn't rediculous. It's just the rediculous people that keep crying about their precious drug. How is it not rediculious? Nearly all "studies" that have "shown" cannabis to be addictive, have been unfounded, and improperly researched.

"Their precious drug"... You say that as if alcohol isn't equally, precious to an alcoholic. Again your showing psychoactive favoritism.


They're exposing underaged kids to an illegal substance thus integrating them into a law-breaking situation. Yeah, no harm there. :rolleyes: ::rollseyes:: Because you were sooo acting out of social concern, and not vindictive prejudice. And you soooo took it upon yourself to bust people who were doing something you didn't agree with. Your justification as to whether or not they were underage is irrelevant without you knowing for sure. You still failed to verify who exactly was suffering injury or damage. Who was the victim here? Who was suffering? You know how often my Asian friends have been accused of "looking" underage?

Cut the crap, you know damn well you didn't call the police because you thought "harm" was being done.


Your previous "what if's" do not correspond with the examples you just provided. There are different types of "what if's"
The moon thing was a bit far fetched, I'll give you that. But since the laws making cannabis illegal were founded upon racial prejudice and not scientific fact, I'm gonna stick to that one.

[DrivenMind]

ran already answered to this so no point me me saying the saem thing.







If you actually read what I was answering to, you would know that I was simply priving a point. Its very simple, just because someone is readily available doesnt mean it should be legal.
Caffine can kill you, Asprin can kill you, Nicotine does kill you, Benedryl is a deliriant hallucinogenic drug. Salvia is perfectly legal. Ambien makes people sleep walk, and causes amnesia. All of these are perfectly legal drugs, and I don't hear anyone bitching about how socially irresponsible, or dangerous they are.




Alcohol does in fact cause people to be violent. I cant think of a single valid arguement against criminalizing alcohol and tobacco under the same statutes that are used to criminalize cocaine. Except that alcohol and nicotine serve no real beneficial purpose to society.





And all of those drugs are controlled substances, just like cocaine. The difference is, there is PROVEN medicinal uses for them. Not possible medicinal uses. WHERE?!?! Codine was perfectly legal until it was decided that it was making junkies out of people. So explain to me, where the PROVEN medicinal use for alcohol and nicotine is. What doctor recommends people drink or smoke? According to the control substances act, both should be in the Schedule 1 category.




"Classification decisions are required to be made on the criteria of potential for abuse, accepted medical use in the United States, and potential for dependence." See my last comment. Alcohol is not used in any medicinal environment the way it is socially. The only medical treatment nicotine serves is to weane people off the addiction is has already caused.


I think that explains why marijuana would fall under a schedule I drug. And I have bolded it to make sure you knew what you were pasting.
Thank you for clearing that up, I was very worried I might miss it.





You are going to have to show me a reference on this one. Its widely known that marijuana is worse because you hold it in your lungs longer. Wrong. How can you speak for all cigarette smokers? Do you know how long every smoker holds their smoke in their lungs? If you used vaporized cannabis, your detrimental smoking argument is defeated anyway.

[Big J]

smoking weed is bad for you.................... making ganjabutter and then rice crispy treats is the way to go

[green91]

drivenmind you are DEAD ON with this topic. it's also important to note that an overwhelming majority of schedule 1 drugs are MAN MADE. marijuana is naturally occurring. to say that one plant is different than another is ridiculous.

[Maniacc]

smoking weed is bad for you.................... making ganjabutter and then rice crispy treats is the way to go
I would like to see hardcore facts and live physical side effects that actually show that the reason for any "bad" thing to happen to you or your body was caused by weed. What I don't understand is why people continue to say it's bad for you?! It's not! It's a natural herb with no deadly ingredients! Here's a funny story. A few friends of mine once got pulled over, high as hell. The cop knew they were high but couldn't prove that they were. Because they had nothing in the car that would indicate that they were in fact smoking. And what did the cop do? Nothing. The law is the law bullcrap is true, but what are they going to do? Jack sh*t if they can't prove it.

A lot of you are typing like you're comparing weed to other hardcore drugs out there. Haha, seriously it's not that big of a deal. You just break apart the nugget into small pieces then place it on a bowl or rolling paper. Roll it. Then light it up and smoke it. Big goddamn deal, right?

[alpine_aw11]

I would like to see hardcore facts and live physical side effects that actually show that the reason for any "bad" thing to happen to you or your body was caused by weed. What I don't understand is why people continue to say it's bad for you?! It's not! It's a natural herb with no deadly ingredients! Here's a funny story. A few friends of mine once got pulled over, high as hell. The cop knew they were high but couldn't prove that they were. Because they had nothing in the car that would indicate that they were in fact smoking. And what did the cop do? Nothing. The law is the law bullcrap is true, but what are they going to do? Jack sh*t if they can't prove it.

A lot of you are typing like you're comparing weed to other hardcore drugs out there. Haha, seriously it's not that big of a deal. You just cut the nugget into small pieces then place it on a bowl or rolling paper. Roll it. Then light it up and smoke it. Big goddamn deal, right?

One of the things holding it back from becoming legal(along with ignorance and the government's ever growing desires for money) is that there's no test for immediacy. What happened to your friends is proof of that, but most cops aren't going to say **** if even if they know you're stoned. Just make sure Ran isn't around the corner ready to report you.

[Blitanicle99]

Take it from someone who not only knows ALOT about marijuana but has done about every drug there is minus a few.

Pot cannot hurt you. It is theoretically possible to overdose, but not pyshically. There has NEVER been a recorded death due to marijuana. Marijuana does not kill brain cells, it re-directs the path of oxygen into your brain hitting different nerve receptors than your used to thus, everything feels new and different and ridiculously awesome.

It is alot of pyschological thing and how people handle their lives. For instance, I myself am I pretty upbeat person, I get **** done fast, I make goals and do them fast. when I burn, things slow down ,my care go away, and my self drive to accomplish things at that pace slow down and I enjoy things more rather than rush through things. This being said, thats why there are people out there that just don't get anyway when they smoke pot because they are already very chill in their lifestyle and its not a drastic change to them. For those people, Cocain blows their mind, because it takes them to that get-things done moment, goals, speed, faster, wired moment that they never experiance. Drugs affect people differently all the time. No two people will ever have the same rasafa or "high".

I would also like to prove, that that being said it has also been proven that smoking does NOT interfere with your driving, it actually makes you pay more attention to it and makes you a better driver. Proven in Britain, the driver did the road coarse, had a spliff, and did the coarse again. He did the coarse .2 seconds faster and was an overall better driver in opinion by driving instructors.




So all your talk about its a gateway drug is actually untrue, its people don't like it as much as other drugs and they find the speed addicting drugs more affective than others. So talk it up.:blah:



Also, drivenminds. well said.

[Mr. Antonov]

Q) Am I going to b*tch about the speed limit?
A) Unlike the people in this thread complaining about pot, no I'm not. I accept the law and keep on moving.


The thing is, for weed the punishment doesn't fit the crime.


Actually I had the pleasure of making an anonymous phone call that busted a 4/20 party near my residence. It was quite an enjoyable evening.

Wow.. You're a ****ing douchebag.

[uproot]

OH NO!!! IT'S REEFER MADNESS!!!!

[DrivenMind]

drivenmind you are DEAD ON with this topic. it's also important to note that an overwhelming majority of schedule 1 drugs are MAN MADE. marijuana is naturally occurring. to say that one plant is different than another is ridiculous.

Not only that, but in the 80s, the government legalized a synthetic form of the psychoactive component of Cannabis, THC to be used in a pill form. It's called Marinol, and it's a schedule II substance. What kind of sense does that make?

[BanginJimmy]

Caffine can kill you, Asprin can kill you, Nicotine does kill you, Benedryl is a deliriant hallucinogenic drug. Salvia is perfectly legal. Ambien makes people sleep walk, and causes amnesia. All of these are perfectly legal drugs, and I don't hear anyone bitching about how socially irresponsible, or dangerous they are.

But each of them do have specific medicinal uses. I have yet to see a single case of someone being killed by caffine or aspirin unless it was an intentional overdose.




Except that alcohol and nicotine serve no real beneficial purpose to society.

which is why I cant think of a single agruement against criminalizing them under the same statutes as cocaine. I believe I already said that though and you ignored it.





WHERE?!?! Codine was perfectly legal until it was decided that it was making junkies out of people. So explain to me, where the PROVEN medicinal use for alcohol and nicotine is. What doctor recommends people drink or smoke? According to the control substances act, both should be in the Schedule 1 category.

look up 1 rebuttal.




See my last comment. Alcohol is not used in any medicinal environment the way it is socially. The only medical treatment nicotine serves is to weane people off the addiction is has already caused.

I have absolutely no clue where you are going with this.



Thank you for clearing that up, I was very worried I might miss it.

you obviously did since you are still saying that it shouldnt be a schedule I drug. The amount of abuse alone easily puts in it this catagory.





Wrong. How can you speak for all cigarette smokers? Do you know how long every smoker holds their smoke in their lungs? If you used vaporized cannabis, your detrimental smoking argument is defeated anyway.

I cant, but I can make a reasonable guess based on personal knowlege. Oh, and I also have a bit of science to back it up.

http://www.ebiologynews.com/2463.html

[Lucky DAWG]

I guess I found all of the pot heads.



You forget that people are still smuggling cigs into the US. People are still smuggling and producing illegal alcohol and the ATF spends ALOT of money chasing them down. Like I said, this will simply become another black market industry.




Actually I wasnt comparing the 2 at all. If you read the quote I was replying to you would understand that. My point was that just because something is readily available doesnt mean that it should be legal.



Actually I think it would be more expensive. The costs of regulating this industry would far outweigh the small amount brought in by taxes. The fact that there would no longer be any fear of arrest for being caught with it, I think it would increase usage and therefore it would increase demand for the illegal product sold at half the price.




I don't understand you here Bangin Jimmy, usually i agree with you. I thought you were a through and through republican. We don't need the government upsizing itself to wage war on petty things and flood the jails.


I want my money to stay in my pocket, not supporting this kind of stuff.



I agree that we should be spending money on limiting the power of cartels bringing it into the country and therefore putting our money in the pockets of "bad people" in other countries. But its simply a changing of hands here usually for small quantities that is for personal use.



Why do i have to babysit someone who wants to throw their life away with a meth lab in their basement? Its called evolution, let them kill themselves off if they choose to live their life that way.



Drug usage is lower in the Netherlands and it is legal for "soft" drugs like marijuana and i think a few opiates, cocaine and the such are still illegal to my knowledge but still used less. I know a lot on this topic i had to write my college english paper on it.





Its petty and dumb, the government doesn't need to be any larger. By taxing this stuff if the same growers of medical marijuana would feed it into the market of consumers then that money would increase our tax revenue and lower tax burdens on the general population.




The drug war hurts both sides, sometimes you have to choose the battles you can win and this is not one of them. As long as drugs exist there will be a desire for them by certain groups of people.



Most if not ALL of the criminal activity due to drugs does not occur because of the effects of the drugs... it happens because the sales are criminalized and you can not call the police if someone steals your merchandise. So drug dealers take it to the streets and resort to drug wars for faster and bigger "get rich fast, live in the fast lane" lifestyles. Leaving hundreds of innocents dead with stray gunfire.




Its dumb and if you can't see this then you are living in a fantasy world.

[alpine_aw11]

I don't understand you here Bangin Jimmy, usually i agree with you. I thought you were a through and through republican. We don't need the government upsizing itself to wage war on petty things and flood the jails.


I want my money to stay in my pocket, not supporting this kind of stuff.



I agree that we should be spending money on limiting the power of cartels bringing it into the country and therefore putting our money in the pockets of "bad people" in other countries. But its simply a changing of hands here usually for small quantities that is for personal use.



Why do i have to babysit someone who wants to throw their life away with a meth lab in their basement? Its called evolution, let them kill themselves off if they choose to live their life that way.



Drug usage is lower in the Netherlands and it is legal for "soft" drugs like marijuana and i think a few opiates, cocaine and the such are still illegal to my knowledge but still used less. I know a lot on this topic i had to write my college english paper on it.





Its petty and dumb, the government doesn't need to be any larger. By taxing this stuff if the same growers of medical marijuana would feed it into the market of consumers then that money would increase our tax revenue and lower tax burdens on the general population.




The drug war hurts both sides, sometimes you have to choose the battles you can win and this is not one of them. As long as drugs exist there will be a desire for them by certain groups of people.



Most if not ALL of the criminal activity due to drugs does not occur because of the effects of the drugs... it happens because the sales are criminalized and you can not call the police if someone steals your merchandise. So drug dealers take it to the streets and resort to drug wars for faster and bigger "get rich fast, live in the fast lane" lifestyles. Leaving hundreds of innocents dead with stray gunfire.




Its dumb and if you can't see this then you are living in a fantasy world.

QFT. However, it seems pretty obvious to me that the government isn't fighting this pointless war on drugs due to the safety of our citizens, as it does provide quite a lot of funding for them. It just seems odd to me that after we removed the Taliban from Afghanistan that we did nothing to stop the rampant growth in heroin production, yet over here weed is a huge concern. The US government has actually helped and funded drug lords in other countries(ex.-the president of Afghanistan's brother, who is one of the largest heroin dealers in the world-at least 80% of heroin here comes from this source which we allowed to be created). This petty drug war does nothing but imprison the innocent, and has done absolutely nothing to prevent drugs from getting into our hands. I could get weed anytime I wanted to with a couple phone calls, wouldn't take more than a couple minutes. Maybe if it was actually working I could understand their motives, but the actions taken by the government have done nothing but put a tiny dent on the drug trade.

[Lucky DAWG]

QFT. However, it seems pretty obvious to me that the government isn't fighting this pointless war on drugs due to the safety of our citizens, as it does provide quite a lot of funding for them. It just seems odd to me that after we removed the Taliban from Afghanistan that we did nothing to stop the rampant growth in heroin production, yet over here weed is a huge concern. The US government has actually helped and funded drug lords in other countries(ex.-the president of Afghanistan's brother, who is one of the largest heroin dealers in the world-at least 80% of heroin here comes from this source which we allowed to be created). This petty drug war does nothing but imprison the innocent, and has done absolutely nothing to prevent drugs from getting into our hands. I could get weed anytime I wanted to with a couple phone calls, wouldn't take more than a couple minutes. Maybe if it was actually working I could understand their motives, but the actions taken by the government have done nothing but put a tiny dent on the drug trade.




exactly.


As long as their is lucrative money involved in drug trading, then people will assume the risk. I think the creativty and desperation of most people to make a lot of money quick is underestimated.


The drug dealers as a whole are usually ahead of the government. You may get a few big fish in the pond, but they will always regroup and just have someone else take the other guy's spot.



Its simple economics, by eliminating competition all they do is just make another cartel more lucrative.

[BanginJimmy]

I don't understand you here Bangin Jimmy, usually i agree with you. I thought you were a through and through republican.

not a republican at all. I am a conservative.



We don't need the government upsizing itself to wage war on petty things and flood the jails.

the DEA isnt going anywhere whether or weed is legal, but the govt would be larger if it was legalized for the regulatory bodies that would need to be set in place.



I want my money to stay in my pocket, not supporting this kind of stuff.

again, legalizing it would mean more money out of your pocket, not less.




I agree that we should be spending money on limiting the power of cartels bringing it into the country and therefore putting our money in the pockets of "bad people" in other countries. But its simply a changing of hands here usually for small quantities that is for personal use.

legalizing it would increase the power of the cartels. Not only would their product be legal, but it would also be more widely used. This would eliminate 1 more level of secrecy in the chain.




Why do i have to babysit someone who wants to throw their life away with a meth lab in their basement? Its called evolution, let them kill themselves off if they choose to live their life that way.

this is a joke right?




Drug usage is lower in the Netherlands and it is legal for "soft" drugs like marijuana and i think a few opiates, cocaine and the such are still illegal to my knowledge but still used less. I know a lot on this topic i had to write my college english paper on it.

We arent the netherlands though, the US has a tendency of taking any simple freedom and abusing it to the point that its legality should be questioned.







Its petty and dumb, the government doesn't need to be any larger. By taxing this stuff if the same growers of medical marijuana would feed it into the market of consumers then that money would increase our tax revenue and lower tax burdens on the general population.

the added costs of regulation would easily surpass the taxes added. Then add in the fact that law enforcement would have no leverage on the users so they can work up the chain to the dealers and suppliers.

Heres another one for you. A smoker is paying $4.00 for a pack of Marlboros from the gas station. One day he learns that Joe down on the corner has illegally packaged Marlboros for $2.00 a pack. Where do you think the smoker is going for his next high?





The drug war hurts both sides, sometimes you have to choose the battles you can win and this is not one of them. As long as drugs exist there will be a desire for them by certain groups of people.

I agree. I could also say the same thing for any number of illegal activities. I will bring up child porn because I just learned a bit about it on Friday. 10k+ arrests are made every year for possession of child porn. Law Enforcement knows who several of the sources are, but because they are overseas they cant be touched. Should child porn be legal also because there will always be a supply and demand for it?
Yes I know its a drastic leap from weed to child porn, but it is the same concept.




Most if not ALL of the criminal activity due to drugs does not occur because of the effects of the drugs... it happens because the sales are criminalized and you can not call the police if someone steals your merchandise.

wrong, most drug related crimes are robberies and burglaries so they addicts can get the money for their next fix. The number of people killed as retaliation is barely worth mentioning in comparison.



So drug dealers take it to the streets and resort to drug wars for faster and bigger "get rich fast, live in the fast lane" lifestyles. Leaving hundreds of innocents dead with stray gunfire.

not at all, most larger dealers keep as low a profile as possible. Its mostly the small timers that live in the last lane.





Its dumb and if you can't see this then you are living in a fantasy world.

I live in the real world, you are the one in the fantasy world.

[Lucky DAWG]

not a republican at all. I am a conservative.




the DEA isnt going anywhere whether or weed is legal, but the govt would be larger if it was legalized for the regulatory bodies that would need to be set in place.




again, legalizing it would mean more money out of your pocket, not less.





legalizing it would increase the power of the cartels. Not only would their product be legal, but it would also be more widely used. This would eliminate 1 more level of secrecy in the chain.





this is a joke right?





We arent the netherlands though, the US has a tendency of taking any simple freedom and abusing it to the point that its legality should be questioned.








the added costs of regulation would easily surpass the taxes added. Then add in the fact that law enforcement would have no leverage on the users so they can work up the chain to the dealers and suppliers.

Heres another one for you. A smoker is paying $4.00 for a pack of Marlboros from the gas station. One day he learns that Joe down on the corner has illegally packaged Marlboros for $2.00 a pack. Where do you think the smoker is going for his next high?






I agree. I could also say the same thing for any number of illegal activities. I will bring up child porn because I just learned a bit about it on Friday. 10k+ arrests are made every year for possession of child porn. Law Enforcement knows who several of the sources are, but because they are overseas they cant be touched. Should child porn be legal also because there will always be a supply and demand for it?
Yes I know its a drastic leap from weed to child porn, but it is the same concept.





wrong, most drug related crimes are robberies and burglaries so they addicts can get the money for their next fix. The number of people killed as retaliation is barely worth mentioning in comparison.




not at all, most larger dealers keep as low a profile as possible. Its mostly the small timers that live in the last lane.






I live in the real world, you are the one in the fantasy world.






Your entire argument is void considering you keep telling me it will cost MORE money. You explain to me how just another sales tax is going to cost MORE money then the hundreds of operations under way resulting in dead agents, millions in technology, millions in pay of preperation for busts and so forth.


What i got from your argument is that we should get rid of sales tax because it takes too much "regulation". And you are the one pushing Fair Tax.




Please explain to me where this logic comes from.

[alpine_aw11]

^I'm sorry but you're definitely living in a fantasy world if you think people who smoke weed are committing murder and armed robbery to get their "fix." I'm all for keeping hard drugs illegal, I've never touched them(well one, but it's nothing like cocaine or heroin) and definitely consider myself to be a responsible smoker, along with 99% of the people who do smoke. Weed isn't causing **** for crime except the actual act of smoking it.

Edit: Not you Lucky, posted right before me

[TIGERJC]

Why don't you go rat out all the street racers on the killsforum. See how well liked you are on this site after that.:goodjob:

Expect retribution from those kids. They probably know it was you who narc'd on them:lmfao:
*Breaking news* Asian kid face kicked in at tonight's varsity meet

[TIGERJC]

Drug usage is lower in the Netherlands and it is legal for "soft" drugs like marijuana and i think a few opiates, cocaine and the such are still illegal to my knowledge but still used less. I know a lot on this topic i had to write my college english paper on it.

Those drugs are still illegal, but the gov't still gives those drugs out at gov't owned clinics and supplies clean needles. Also they try to counsel the users while they are there, and because they look at it as a disease and they know that this is really the only way to help them get better or least live a somewhat decent life

[The12lber]

not a republican at all. I am a conservative.

Actually, based on the kind of things you've said throughout the posts I've seen you make, you fall in line more with neo-conservative political ideology. This is viewed by political scientists to be a liberal political ideology, especially considering that its origins are with prominent disenfranchised liberals of the 70s.

[The12lber]

EDIT: Actually, I'm bored so I'll elaborate a little more.

So you're comparing modern society and law enforcement to what it was 80 years ago? Nice.

Alright, I'm going to break you in on a big secret.

SINCE THE TIME WHEN THE VERY FIRST STATUTES WERE ENACTED AND GOVERNMENTS PUT IN PLACE, BLACK MARKETS AND CRIMINAL UNDERWORLDS HAVE EXISTED TO SUPPLY EVERY ILLEGAL GOOD OR SERVICE AS LONG IT IS IN DEMAND. THE CRIMINAL UNDERWORLD IN QUESTION WILL USE PART OF ITS PROFITS AS OPERATIVE COSTS TO BUY LAW ENFORCEMENT AND GOVERNMENT.

Look, its still happening now with illicit drugs. Its exactly the same situation as prohibition. You are f*cking dumb for not catching onto this.

Who cares about Columbia and why did you bring them up? However, since you're bringing it up. How exactly does it feel to be supporting this civil war?

I care because they're people too and our bogus war on drugs has put their country in a persistent state of civil war for the better part of 40 years. Also, I never said I was buying drugs and supporting their civil war. Another logical fallacy, unsurprising from someone as unintelligent as yourself.

On this note, I do believe that hemp should be permissible for economical purposes like textile and what-not. As an actual resource, it can be very valuable. I've stated that in older threads as well.

So cocaine should now be legalized because it was made illegal over a supposedly racist standing?

Supposedly racist? Haha, haha, hahahaha. Oh my, there's not too many ways you can spin the notion of Congress being afraid of "cocainized n*ggers" raping white women into not being racist.

In your opinion.

Have you ever done any drugs to form a good opinion on whether or not its a big deal? I'm going to venture the guess, no.

Unfortunately for you, the law is on my side. So you can sit here and try to rationalize it all you want. At the end of the day, I still win. Accept that.
Yeah, but you're still one hell of a dumb mother****er. I'm actually fairly shocked that you assumed just because I support decriminalization and regulation of drug sales, I am a drug purchaser, indirectly funding guerilla groups and drug cartels in South America. You don't have to have a stake in an issue to recognize idiocy.

For the record, you didn't win ****. If supporting laws, statutes, etc, that were in place decades before your birth and you had nothing to do with the enactment of is considered winning, I win for actually supporting The Constitution of the United States (which all laws are mandated to be in agreement with), something drug prohibition pisses on.

[The12lber]

legalizing it would increase the power of the cartels. Not only would their product be legal, but it would also be more widely used. This would eliminate 1 more level of secrecy in the chain.

You are insufferably stupid. Do you know why illicit drugs are produced by drug cartels, roaming the jungle/desert (Afghanistan is the world's largest opium exporter, after all) in armed militias, refining their product in underground labyrinths or at remote airstrips?

BECAUSE IT IS ****ING ILLEGAL AND THEY HAVE TO MAKE IT THAT WAY.

When something becomes legal, its producers become corporations and business. When prohibition ended did the mob gain more power? No, they lost revenue. They had to rely on their racketeering and gambling/white slavery/whatever the **** else they had going on. When legitimate business can produce a product, there's no niche for the criminal underworld to produce it. NONE.

Are there violent groups of criminals, roaming Texas, setting up illicit oil derricks and refineries?

[Ran]

1) The12lber makes me laugh for his wannabe tough-guy responses. I won't even justify him with a response anymore.

2) DrivenMind, I would move if I had the means and financial resources to do so. I'll pos-rep you in return though, since you seemed to be somewhat sensible in your debate with me unlike the remaining flock of stoners in here.

I'm outta here. This bill won't pass and I'll sit with a smile everytime one of you morons gets busted. Have fun smoking in shadows. lol

[DrivenMind]

not a republican at all. I am a conservative. Big surprise there... You do drive a lowered American SUV after all.





the DEA isnt going anywhere whether or weed is legal, but the govt would be larger if it was legalized for the regulatory bodies that would need to be set in place. How would it need to be larger? Law enforcement agencies across the country already have huge portions of their precincts dedicated to busting those harmlessly "crazed" marijuana smokers. It would take a lot less resources and man power to make a few regulatory laws regarding the sale and distribution of cannabis, than it would to keep trying to push prohibition, and forced prosecution on a substance that more than 50% of the countries population has tried.





again, legalizing it would mean more money out of your pocket, not less. Wrong. It costs $19,000 annually per inmate in the US. Considering in 2006 alone, 800,000 people were arrested for "marijuana" violations that seems like a pretty quick way to save some bank. Not to mention the businesses, and industries that could be created if hemp were allowed to create some competition within the textile industry. Do you really believe that it costs the government less to hunt, and prosecute violators? You realize despite the aging war on drugs cannabis use is at an all time "high". Clearly the drug war isn't working.

Since 1992, six million tax paying Americans have been locked up for deciding to smoke a little weed. Does that number not sound outrageous to you?



legalizing it would increase the power of the cartels. Not only would their product be legal, but it would also be more widely used. This would eliminate 1 more level of secrecy in the chain. Wrong again. He's an unlikely idea, what if it turned them into legitimate business people, who contributed more of thier profits into taxes to help fuel our economy. Just because a drug is legal doesn't mean it's any more widely abused. I wonder if the people over at Budwiser were called "cartels" during alcohol prohibition.

And could you also explain to me, where in the medical industry they require patients to ingest alcohol. Or inhale cigarette delivered nicotine.






this is a joke right?
Yea, the war on drugs has been a joke since the foul criminal Nixon introduced it in 1971.

"This scourge will stop!"
No it won't. You'll just blow a lot of our money trying to stop it.






We arent the netherlands though, the US has a tendency of taking any simple freedom and abusing it to the point that its legality should be questioned. Did you just say that? It's not a freedom if you can get arrested for doing it. How can you abuse a freedom, that isn't a actually freedom? It's legality should be questioned because it ISN'T a freedom.








the added costs of regulation would easily surpass the taxes added. Then add in the fact that law enforcement would have no leverage on the users so they can work up the chain to the dealers and suppliers. Law enforcement has the ultimate leverage on dealers already anyway. It's called a prison sentence. You keep saying the added costs of regulation would surpass the taxes added, as if you're deliberately ignoring the fact that there would be a reduction in costs when the government isn't spending it's time prosecuting almost a million extra non-violent "offenders".


Heres another one for you. A smoker is paying $4.00 for a pack of Marlboros from the gas station. One day he learns that Joe down on the corner has illegally packaged Marlboros for $2.00 a pack. Where do you think the smoker is going for his next high? Depends. If the smoker knows he's going to get a reliable quality product from the gas station every time, why would he waste his time sourcing out another distributor just to save $2 a pack? Most people would pay the extra $2 just to avoid the risk of having to deal with the potential law involvement.







I agree. I could also say the same thing for any number of illegal activities. I will bring up child porn because I just learned a bit about it on Friday. 10k+ arrests are made every year for possession of child porn. Law Enforcement knows who several of the sources are, but because they are overseas they cant be touched. Should child porn be legal also because there will always be a supply and demand for it?
Yes I know its a drastic leap from weed to child porn, but it is the same concept. No it's not, that's absolutely ****ing ridiculous.






wrong, most drug related crimes are robberies and burglaries so they addicts can get the money for their next fix. The number of people killed as retaliation is barely worth mentioning in comparison. Source your information. This is blantant intellectual dishonesty. You're talking about junkies. Usually it's the opiate addicts that behave this way. Not pot heads. You think a "lazy, unmotivated" pot head is going to commit a burglary so he can get smoke?






I live in the real world, you are the one in the fantasy world. This is false too. You might exist in the real world, but you're living in the conservative propoganda day dream.

[BOBA-GA-NUSH]

http://www.mpp-vip.org/ (http://www.mpp-vip.org/)

Here is a link to some of the V.I.P supporters

[ATL_EG]

http://www.abovetheignorance.org/

don't have time to argue

[BOBA-GA-NUSH]

http://www.abovetheignorance.org/

don't have time to argue
CRAP ASS LINK IS TOO SLOW BRO.

[eViLMunkey]

These guys can get their hopes up all they want. It's not going to pass and we all know it.
Actually I don't think it will pass down south I know it will up here in the N.East and also on the west coast and some states in the Midwest. .

[DrivenMind]

Sooner or later the conservative crowd down here in Bible belt is going to have to get with the times.

[Total_Blender]

And could you also explain to me, where in the medical industry they require patients to ingest alcohol.
.

Alcohol is administered in cases of antifreeze poisoning. It is also one of the main ingredients in over the counter cough remedies. And its been proven in many studies that red wine is good for people with heart disease.:goodjob:

But all that is beside the main point:cheers:

[DrivenMind]

I've never heard of the anti-freeze poisoning thing, but that's pretty interesting point.

As for OTC cought remedies, also is used in tiny quantities as a solvent, not as a central nervous system depressant as it is socially, or when it's used recreationally as.

Yes red wine can be cardioprotective, but the evidence supporting that is limited, and circumstantially dependent upon the amount consumed. Someone who drinks too much red wine puts themselves at risk for heart disease just like any other heavy drinker.

Although I'm sure the medical community will agree that there are lots of other naturally occurring more effective cardioprotective substances that could be consumed in it's place.

[Lucky DAWG]

Sooner or later the conservative crowd down here in Bible belt is going to have to get with the times.



I agree.



I love the tradition and roots here in the south. I love saturday morning's in the fall, i love the focus on the outdoors down here and the way the people dress and carry themselves.


But there is a new breed of business people i feel like coming up in the younger crowds down here who are combining the best of both worlds who have a grip on their roots while embracing some new ideals to be more succesful.

I don't want to drop what makes us "the south", but somethings have to be embraced to be a economic power. Which we are on the verge of, all the opportunities in this country are pointing south as the rest of the country as over stretched itself.

[The12lber]

1) The12lber makes me laugh for his wannabe tough-guy responses. I won't even justify him with a response anymore.

All I heard was "Waa, waa, I'm dumb and I'm wrong, waa." Just because I insulted your intelligence and refuted your (correctly, lack there of) "argument", you don't want to play anymore.

Not only is drug prohibition
1)Ineffective at preventing the production, distribution, sale and use of illegal drugs
2)Responsible for allowing numerous guerilla groups/terrorist organizations in Afghanistan and Latin America to accrue the financial capital they need to operate.
3)Creating the main market that most organized crime in this country taps into.

Its also a violation of the United States Constitution in letter and spirit. I challenge you to refute any of these facts. Not just some good old fashioned biblically styled "logic", actual facts. Until then, you'll still be a moronic cry baby with some hackneyed morals, the underpinnings of which are unknown to you.

[The12lber]

Yea, the war on drugs has been a joke since the foul criminal Nixon introduced it in 1971.

In all fairness, overall, Nixon was in actuallity probably the best postwar (you know, the big one) President of 20th century.

Did you just say that? It's not a freedom if you can get arrested for doing it. How can you abuse a freedom, that isn't a actually freedom? It's legality should be questioned because it ISN'T a freedom.


Yeah, that's the whole deal with America. We have freedoms here, not privileges. You don't ban things simply because something is considered immoral by a select few, but it can't logically be explained why. You don't ban things because said things in question might be dangerous to them Smoking is literally sentencing yourself to premature death, I don't see a ban on tobacco. People are given the responsibility to make their own choices here. If people don't feel comfortable for this, they should look up Authoritarianism/Totalitarianism on Wikipedia and move accordingly. China and North Korea, especially, would be lovely choices

A short list of things that would have to be banned if we followed this rule (banning things that are potentially unsafe to the participant or considered immoral by some) in all cases
-Bicycles
-Motorcycles
-Cars
-Planes
-Swimming (you could drown)
-Pleasurecraft (your boat could sink, see above)
-Christianity
-Islam
-Jeudaism
-Pre-marital sex
-Homosexuality
-Buttsecks
-Fellatio
-****, everything but missionary
-Unprotected sex
-Standing up
-Fishing
-Hunting
-Eating meat (meat is murder, PETA told me so)
-Lying down

[EJ25RUN]

used my vote.

[alpine_aw11]

When it's all said and done, no one that's against marijuana law reform can produce an argument that can rival those who support it. Give it up guys. Opposition to it is fueled by ignorance and tradition that's been beaten in by Jesus freaks and health class for years.

[DrivenMind]

You guys who taken such a strong stand against it, may not like it, and I respect your dedication to your cause. But this is one of those things that can't really be argued anymore, without bringing in irrational logic. We have a standard for evaluating the criteria of a drugs usefulness, and potential danger. Cannabis has not been accurately evaluated, without irrational prejudice since the 30s.

Cannabis is more harmless than an overwhelming majority of the totally legal psychoactive substances we use or a regular basis, and because it's not difficult to produce, and has other potentially useful characteristics, it will be made legal. Sooner or later. Whether you like it or not.

If we are fortunate it will happen while we are still young, and can reap the economic and legal rewards in our lifetime. If not... the least we can do is plant the seed of this idea, and help our piers understand.

We are not fiends. Someone of us might be "stoners", as you like to condescendingly attempt to phrase it. But if you have any common sense, you'll quickly see that what we support is far less dangerous than things that have already been made legal.





If they make it legal in my lifetime, I will be giving up alcohol entirely.

[G.C]

You guys who taken such a strong stand against it, may not like it, and I respect your dedication to your cause. But this is one of those things that can't really be argued anymore, without bringing in irrational logic. We have a standard for evaluating the criteria of a drugs usefulness, and potential danger. Cannabis has not been accurately evaluated, without irrational prejudice since the 30s.

Cannabis is more harmless than an overwhelming majority of the totally legal psychoactive substances we use or a regular basis, and because it's not difficult to produce, and has other potentially useful characteristics, it will be made legal. Sooner or later. Whether you like it or not.

If we are fortunate it will happen while we are still young, and can reap the economic and legal rewards in our lifetime. If not... the least we can do is plant the seed of this idea, and help our piers understand.

We are not fiends. Someone of us might be "stoners", as you like to condescendingly attempt to phrase it. But if you have any common sense, you'll quickly see that what we support is far less dangerous than things that have already been made legal.





If they make it legal in my lifetime, I will be giving up alcohol entirely.

When that time comes, i will be at your front door with a hookah.

[alpine_aw11]

^hit me up...i gets the goodness

[G.C]

^ sorry p.o for another 3 years. Been clean for 2 years and i'm not thinking bout going back. But when it gets legalized expect a phone call every week from me :).

[LightningSpeed]

F ALL THIS READING SOMEONE PASS THE L!

[True Pyroman]

all I say is when are we gonna be able to buy a pack of camel greens.

[BOBA-GA-NUSH]

THKS FOR THE COMMENTS

[HachiRoku]

legalize it...!!

and ban sigs and guns... people will be more mellow and less crime.
And if they tax it might help the US.
Look at the Netherlands, low crime rate and no problems becouse of the green.

[uproot]

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c382/DigeratiPrime/holy_thread_resurrection_batman.jpg

[americanctm]

I don't understand the argument for keeping it illegal either. Weed is California's Leading cash crop.... responsible for $14 billion in sales a year, and its fucking illegal except for medicinal purposes. If California's senate passes the marijuana legalization bill, California will make $50 for every ounce sold. This would bring in an estimated $1.3 billion in taxes off of weed, which would go to help rescue California's ailing economy.

That is $1.3 billion for only 1 state. If the federal government legalized and taxed Marijuana they would makes billions upon billions of dollars off of the taxes, and not to mention save billions by not putting non-violent drug offenders in jail that we all pay taxes on, making drug seizures and paying billions in the "war on drugs" on the home front.

That is only the argument on the economics side, there are many different reasons why it should be legal. Alcohol is more dangerous than marijuana because it impairs your frontal lobe more significantly, which is the "reasoning" part of the brain and therefore leads to worse decision making when impaired.

*Thread Resurrection Complete* :D

[T.C.]

Check out what Rhode Island just did, heres the link http://www.wpri.com/dpp/news/local_news/local_ap_ri_to_allow_ri_compassion_centers_2009061 6_mds

[jfman]

No such thing as a non-violent drug offender. Marijuana isnt enarly as bad as harder drugs, but it does lead to crimes.

.

Yeah crimes against a box of twinkies maybe.

[bdydrpdmazda]

I believe that if it doesnt affect the government or other people then the government shouldnt have a say so in it. If i want to smoke a blunt then i should be able to smoke a blunt. If a crack head wants to smoke crack then thats his right as long as he isnt exposing it to others that want nothing to do with it. If it isnt gonna effect anybody else then it should be your decision to do what you want but the democrats are slowly taking away all the freedom that this great country was founded upon.