Obama '08

[adios]

http://i37.tinypic.com/i6jbt2.png

[Echonova]

Hi Maniac.

[Lucky DAWG]

that was retarded


/fail

[EJ25RUN]

Of all the things i have see used so far in the Obama campaign, this comes closest to influencing my decision toward him.

[Alan®]

Of all the things i have see used so far in the Obama campaign, this comes closest to influencing my decision toward him.
:lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao:

[Lucky DAWG]

Of all the things i have see used so far in the Obama campaign, this comes closest to influencing my decision toward him.




of all things this comes the closest to making me want to give $1000 to McCain's campaign.

[AnthonyF]

No. I will not ever vote for that scumbag.

-Ant.

[slostang]

I'm just not voting.

[Lucky DAWG]

I'm just not voting.


thats why you suck

[PURP]

I don't care who becomes president and I'm not aloud to vote anyways:(.

EDIT: if i could vote more than likey be for McCain... but I can't... damn laws

[EJ25RUN]

I'm just not voting.

do you even know how?

[Lucky DAWG]

I don't care who becomes president and I'm not aloud to vote



allowed?
is it because you can't read, of age, or a citizen?

[PURP]

allowed?
is it because you can't read, of age, or a citizen?
Felon:(

[SOHC MONSTER]

Epic fail of the day.....

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b246/rbrandon383/funny/tekken-cylcone_kick.gif

[slostang]

do you even know how?


yeah, but both candadites suck. there is no good choice.

[AnthonyF]

I don't care who becomes president and I'm not aloud to vote anyways:(.

EDIT: if i could vote more than likey be for McCain... but I can't... damn laws

You should at least care. If you do not care or vote, YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO BìTCH AND COMPLAIN!

-Ant.

[PURP]

You should at least care. If you do not care or vote, YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO BìTCH AND COMPLAIN!

-Ant.

:thinking:.... Didn't b*tch or complain....

[AnthonyF]

yeah, but both candadites suck. there is no good choice.At lease McCain is intelligent and knows what the fuk he is talking about. Obama doesnt know a god damn thing. THATS why he wont debate McCain, b/c McCain will chew his ass out and shìt him out right there on the stage...and it'd still look better than the original Obama.

-Ant.

[Lucky DAWG]

At lease McCain is intelligent and knows what the fuk he is talking about. Obama doesnt know a god damn thing. THATS why he wont debate McCain, b/c McCain will chew his ass out and shìt him out right there on the stage...and it'd still look better than the original Obama.

-Ant.




ummm..... REPPED :goodjob:




and who cares if he doesn't vote, its just weeding out the morons if they don't vote

[Alan®]

My 2 biggest issues are this.

1. How does a man that has never tried to run a business or anything for that matter get the idea that he knows **** about economic policy

2.How does a guy that has never done anything with foreign policy or military action thinks he can finish a war?

[AnthonyF]

:thinking:.... Didn't b*tch or complain....Didnt say ya did. I'm saying you DO NOT have the right to complain if you do not vote.

-Ant.

[adios]

I didn't make this thread to start some conflict between McCain supporters and Obama supporters. Just reading the picture should have indicated that.

Geez..

http://i36.tinypic.com/2ymeoht.jpg

[_Christian_]

not in the least bit funny

[adios]

not in the least bit funny
http://i33.tinypic.com/1resrq.jpg

Kidding. Everyone has a different sense of humor, ok I get it.

[Init2winit]

http://streetcarforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=88652&stc=1&d=1215966865

[IndianStig]

yeah, but both candadites suck. there is no good choice.


there has to be a lesser evil of the two, there ALWAYS is.

[ultm8mind]

Let's see, McCain was a POW for years and is alive to tell about it. How can you not vote for that man, yes, he may be older, but come on. Anyways, I will be voting for the guy who served his country honorably........

[Total_Blender]

Obama '08 (seriously... IA has yet to convince me of why I should vote for McCain). 4 more years of Reaganomics? No Thanks!

[Lucky DAWG]

Obama '08 (seriously... IA has yet to convince me of why I should vote for McCain). 4 more years of Reaganomics? No Thanks!




Reagan is god


SHUN THE NON BELIEVER


....SHUN!!!!!!!!

[BanginJimmy]

Obama '08 (seriously... IA has yet to convince me of why I should vote for McCain). 4 more years of Reaganomics? No Thanks!


let me flip this around on you. Why would you vote for Obama?

[bigdare23]

So an anti-Obama thread is really needed every week?!? McCain supporters must really fear Obama. What you don't realize is the more you put him in the media, the more attention he gets, duh! So really you're doing McCain more harm than good.

For an example, look at a kid in high school. Just say his ex-girl friend put on blast for going down on her during their relationship. At first he's going to get clowned, but his sex appeal is going to greatly increase with the females (he got put on blast and got something good out of it). Another example is the 2 girls 1 cup video. Everyone already knew how nasty it was, but they still watched it (excepted me LOL).

Well the moral of the story is.... blasting the Obama isn't really hurting Obama as much as you thinking it is. Most of the people that are supporting him are well educated and won't be influenced by these lackluster attacks, and the people that "changeover" because of theses lies and "horrable tatics" aren't smart enough to vote anyways LOL.

[IndianStig]

So an anti-Obama thread is really needed every week?!? McCain supporters must really fear Obama. What you don't realize is the more you put him in the media, the more attention he gets, duh! So really you're doing McCain more harm than good.

For an example, look at a kid in high school. Just say his ex-girl friend put on blast for going down on her during their relationship. At first he's going to get clowned, but his sex appeal is going to greatly increase with the females (he got put on blast and got something good out of it). Another example is the 2 girls 1 cup video. Everyone already knew how nasty it was, but they still watched it (excepted me LOL).

Well the moral of the story is.... blasting the Obama isn't really hurting Obama as much as you thinking it is. Most of the people that are supporting him are well educated and won't be influenced by these lackluster attacks, and the people that "changeover" because of theses lies and "horrable tatics" aren't smart enough to vote anyways LOL.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joke

[Z0_o6]

personally i have a hard time believing that obama supporters are so educated that they don't even need him to explain anything past his rhetoric.

[blindF]

http://i37.tinypic.com/i6jbt2.png



:lmfao:

[EJ25RUN]

Obama '08 (seriously... IA has yet to convince me of why I should vote for McCain). 4 more years of Reaganomics? No Thanks!

This is made me LOL

http://obama.com/

[AnthonyF]

I didn't make this thread to start some conflict between McCain supporters and Obama supporters. Just reading the picture should have indicated that.

Geez..



Shut the fuk up.

-Ant.

[AnthonyF]

I can forsee the future for Obama's presidential reign.....it'll start off with something like this:
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u180/TRYMY40/sniper.jpg

-Ant.

[stillaneon]

I wish I could vote. NOt that I prefer McCain, but his experience would be the selling point over Obama. I think he needs a few more years senate wise before he is ready

[Vayda]

All politics aside, i did lol at the picture. The last bit did it... "pay you to take drugs or get everyone laid **** yea"

I just thought it was funny :)

[Total_Blender]

I'll tell you why I'm voting for Obama. I'm tired of the neocon currently in power and the regressive tax policies they have been trying to foist on us. I say tax the rich. Theres no reason the working class should have to carry the lion's share of the tax burden when the major corporations and the top 1% of the population have all the wealth. Oil companies paid 30% of their gross as taxes? So what... if they are giving executives $400 million retirements it sounds like they are doing fine to me:screwy:

And for universal healthcare... why not? I'd rather wait in line for an X-ray than not get one at all and die. There are a lot of working Americans who still can't afford health insurance. For every story I've heard about someone in a socialized country having to wait on a procedure I've heard 2 or 3 stories about someone here in the states not getting the same procedure because they either can't get insurance or they are getting screwed over by their HMO. People in socialized medicine countries live longer than us and are healthier. I know a lot of America's health probalems are more cultrual than the fault of its health care system, but allowing more Americans access to health care will probably be cheaper in the long run. Like preventing people from getting cancer rather than helping them fight cancer. That sort of thing. The more people who are healthy, the more people who can work. The more workers the higher the GDP. etc.

And having a president that is not a neo-con in office would also mean that the whole wiretapping/surveillance/patriot act deal would be resolved. I trust Obama and the Dems with my privacy and my civil liberties more than I do McCain and the neocons. They have both voted for the Patriot Act, but at least Obama voted against the roving wiretaps.

[BanginJimmy]

I'll tell you why I'm voting for Obama. I'm tired of the neocon currently in power
this would be a valid arguement if Bush was running again, but he isnt. This is simply voting based on your hatred for Bush and not for any knowlege of the canidates.


and the regressive tax policies they have been trying to foist on us.

What regressive tax policy? If you mean lowering taxes, then yes he has done that.


I say tax the rich. Theres no reason the working class should have to carry the lion's share of the tax burden
The rich already pay the lions share of the tax burden. In fact, the top 20% of wage earners pay more than 75% of all income taxes collected.


when the major corporations and the top 1% of the population have all the wealth.

A corporation doesnt have any wealth. It may have assets, but that is all. The is why you always hear about fortune 500 corporations seeking credit from this bank or that bank.


Oil companies paid 30% of their gross as taxes? So what... if they are giving executives $400 million retirements it sounds like they are doing fine to me:screwy:
So you honestly think that the oil companies are just going to take the added taxes out of their profit? What fantasy world do you live in, and how do i get there?


And for universal healthcare... why not? I'd rather wait in line for an X-ray than not get one at all and die.

You have a better chance of dying waiting on that xray with a socialized healthcare plan than you would under the current plan.


There are a lot of working Americans who still can't afford health insurance.
Life sucks huh. I can tell you for a fact that more than 90% of those that dont have health insurance are working dead end jobs, or not working at all. Maybe they should have stayed in school a little longer.


For every story I've heard about someone in a socialized country having to wait on a procedure I've heard 2 or 3 stories about someone here in the states not getting the same procedure because they either can't get insurance or they are getting screwed over by their HMO. People in socialized medicine countries live longer than us and are healthier.

What country is this? I know that in Canada it is againt the law to pay out of pocket for a voluntary procedure. In England there have been MANY stories of people that have been denied treatment because of age or budgetary concerns.



I know a lot of America's health probalems are more cultrual than the fault of its health care system, but allowing more Americans access to health care will probably be cheaper in the long run.

Cheaper than what?


Like preventing people from getting cancer rather than helping them fight cancer. That sort of thing.

so you think that companies will continue to spend the hundreds of millions of dollars to develop new drugs even though they know that their profit margin will take a very serious hit?


The more people who are healthy, the more people who can work. The more workers the higher the GDP. etc.
Actually social programs such as these reward deviant behavior and do not promote people to better themselves.

Also an unrelated fact. In less than 10 years the US work force will not collect enough money to pay for SS and medicare in their current forms without trippling the tax rate and removing the cap. What do you think the added $300 billion or so to run socialized healthcare will cost you? Still think there will be more money in the economy?


And having a president that is not a neo-con in office would also mean that the whole wiretapping/surveillance/patriot act deal would be resolved. I trust Obama and the Dems with my privacy and my civil liberties more than I do McCain and the neocons. They have both voted for the Patriot Act, but at least Obama voted against the roving wiretaps.

Guess what, Obama doesnt care about you or your privacy. All he cares about is getting your money and removing all of those stubborn choices you have to make during your like.

[Alan®]

I'll tell you why I'm voting for Obama. I'm tired of the neocon currently in power and the regressive tax policies they have been trying to foist on us. I say tax the rich. Theres no reason the working class should have to carry the lion's share of the tax burden when the major corporations and the top 1% of the population have all the wealth. Oil companies paid 30% of their gross as taxes? So what... if they are giving executives $400 million retirements it sounds like they are doing fine to me:screwy:

And for universal healthcare... why not? I'd rather wait in line for an X-ray than not get one at all and die. There are a lot of working Americans who still can't afford health insurance. For every story I've heard about someone in a socialized country having to wait on a procedure I've heard 2 or 3 stories about someone here in the states not getting the same procedure because they either can't get insurance or they are getting screwed over by their HMO. People in socialized medicine countries live longer than us and are healthier. I know a lot of America's health probalems are more cultrual than the fault of its health care system, but allowing more Americans access to health care will probably be cheaper in the long run. Like preventing people from getting cancer rather than helping them fight cancer. That sort of thing. The more people who are healthy, the more people who can work. The more workers the higher the GDP. etc.

And having a president that is not a neo-con in office would also mean that the whole wiretapping/surveillance/patriot act deal would be resolved. I trust Obama and the Dems with my privacy and my civil liberties more than I do McCain and the neocons. They have both voted for the Patriot Act, but at least Obama voted against the roving wiretaps.
This argument is ripped to shreds so easily however I don't have time to gotta go take a drug test however I will when I get back.

[Alan®]

I'll tell you why I'm voting for Obama. I'm tired of the neocon currently in power and the regressive tax policies they have been trying to foist on us. I say tax the rich. Theres no reason the working class should have to carry the lion's share of the tax burden when the major corporations and the top 1% of the population have all the wealth. Oil companies paid 30% of their gross as taxes? So what... if they are giving executives $400 million retirements it sounds like they are doing fine to me:screwy:

And for universal healthcare... why not? I'd rather wait in line for an X-ray than not get one at all and die. There are a lot of working Americans who still can't afford health insurance. For every story I've heard about someone in a socialized country having to wait on a procedure I've heard 2 or 3 stories about someone here in the states not getting the same procedure because they either can't get insurance or they are getting screwed over by their HMO. People in socialized medicine countries live longer than us and are healthier. I know a lot of America's health probalems are more cultrual than the fault of its health care system, but allowing more Americans access to health care will probably be cheaper in the long run. Like preventing people from getting cancer rather than helping them fight cancer. That sort of thing. The more people who are healthy, the more people who can work. The more workers the higher the GDP. etc.

And having a president that is not a neo-con in office would also mean that the whole wiretapping/surveillance/patriot act deal would be resolved. I trust Obama and the Dems with my privacy and my civil liberties more than I do McCain and the neocons. They have both voted for the Patriot Act, but at least Obama voted against the roving wiretaps.
1. As bangin jimmy said earlier the rich are ALREADY PAYING MOST OF THE TAXES! So you want them to pay more? LOL ok go ovte for Obama and see how long a lot of business stay here in the states.

2. I hate the term working class. My dad is in the top 10% if not higher of Americans as a small business owner and he WORKS HIS A$$ off. The term working class is honestly just a ploy by the democrats and the media to make the rich look that much more evil and it's stupid.

3.Oil companies paid a lot more than 30% as the corporate tax rate in America (last I checked) is 39%. We have the 2nd highest tax rate in the world short of Italy whoose Corporate tax rate is 39.5%. 3 years ago congress lifted a tariff on corporations on companies who brought money they made over seas back home. It generated 25-50 billion dollars in tax revenue(can't remember exactly sorry) where do you think that money went back to the rich? :thinking:

4. As far as executives getting $400 million dollars in retirement funds my question to you is this: SO WHAT? The person that get's that made a series of choices to get to that point in their life and you want to take that away from them? There's a system of government that redistributes the wealth and it's not called a democracy :goodjob: .

5.Universal health care is a joke. It has never worked anywhere. In fact if it's so great why are there CANADIAN citizens going to US BORDER states to get surgeries done if the system there is so great? :thinking: People in socialized medicine countries like parts of Europe and Canada live longer for one reason and it's not the health care system. It's their way of life. Europeans and canadians generally eat healthier and take care of themselves unlike I believe it's something like 60% of the adult population over 40 that is obese.

6. Answer this? Do you have anything to hide from the U.S. government? Do you honestly think that there is a guy sitting in a room listening to the billions of phone calls that go through this country everyday? The answer is no.

[adios]

5.Universal health care is a joke. It has never worked anywhere. In fact if it's so great why are there CANADIAN citizens going to US BORDER states to get surgeries done if the system there is so great? :thinking: People in socialized medicine countries like parts of Europe and Canada live longer for one reason and it's not the health care system. It's their way of life. Europeans and canadians generally eat healthier and take care of themselves unlike I believe it's something like 60% of the adult population over 40 that is obese.
Is has some truth to it, but even the mighty United States can cure everything.

I have an uncle who had some problem with his liver and other internal problems. The doctors here couldn't cure shit. After months of wasting money on useless medicine my aunt and uncle decided to go back to Mexico. A few months past and with real medicine and slowly started getting better. Now he's back and looks 10x better.

The US has incredible technology. Yet it seems that would rather spend money on wars then their own citizen.

Alot of them are too busy eating burger king to even care though.

[BanginJimmy]

1. As bangin jimmy said earlier the rich are ALREADY PAYING MOST OF THE TAXES! So you want them to pay more? LOL ok go ovte for Obama and see how long a lot of business stay here in the states.




To add to RedGT


Do you honestly think it will only be the top 10% that get the tax increase?

Now read the history of the US income tax and the 16th amendment and tell me again if you believe this?

[Alan®]

To add to RedGT


Do you honestly think it will only be the top 10% that get the tax increase?

Now read the history of the US income tax and the 16th amendment and tell me again if you believe this?
Exactly. There was a law that the dems were trying to pass a few years back that for example:say you won't get hit hard with taxes if you make 60k a year. You own a house that's 180k but the guy down the street sells his house for 165k. Under that law that 15k difference between your house and his would have been declared "income" and you would have jumped above the 60k bracket.

[BanginJimmy]

Is has some truth to it, but even the mighty United States can cure everything.

I have an uncle who had some problem with his liver and other internal problems. The doctors here couldn't cure shit. After months of wasting money on useless medicine my aunt and uncle decided to go back to Mexico. A few months past and with real medicine and slowly started getting better. Now he's back and looks 10x better.


Alot of them are too busy eating burger king to even care though.

so what was wrong with him?

You also have to think, just like a car mechanic there are good docs and bad ones. He probably got a ****ty doc.


The US has incredible technology. Yet it seems that would rather spend money on wars then their own citizen.

Last time I looked the US was spending several hundred billion a year supporting the lazy, the illegals, and the stupid.

[Ran]

Wow, what a horrible thread this has turned out to be. Total_Blender's post seriously scares the sh*t out of me.

[Alan®]

Wow, what a horrible thread this has turned out to be. Total_Blender's post seriously scares the sh*t out of me.
Werd somebody has been drinking too much of the kool aid`

[adios]

so what was wrong with him?

You also have to think, just like a car mechanic there are good docs and bad ones. He probably got a ****ty doc.
A form of leukemia. He also became paralyzed and started to hallucinate about the past.



Last time I looked the US was spending several hundred billion a year supporting the lazy, the illegals, and the stupid.
The lazy, and stupid would be the homeless.

Seeing as how they were born in the states yet refuse to make something out of themeselves just show's how spoiled this country is.

Just cause they don't have it their way, they get lazy and decided to stop trying. Sure some of the illegals don't pay taxes and health insurance or w/e. But they're out working not just sitting on the side of an on ramp waiting for a red light so that they could walk up and down asking for change.

[Alan®]

Alex your post actually made me stop watching the new top gear for the 2nd time today.

A form of leukemia. He became paralyzed and started to hallucinate about the past.



The lazy, and stupid would be the homeless.
My question to this is this....Who cares and why is it my problem?I'm supposed to pay for someone else because they are lazy and stupid?



Seeing as how they were born in the states yet refuse to make something out of themeselves just show's how spoiled this country is.

Just cause they don't have it their way, they get lazy and decided to stop trying.
Again and I should I have to pay for this why.

As I remember the Decleration of Independence says life, liberty, and the PURSUIT of happiness.



Sure some of the illegals don't pay taxes and health insurance or w/e. But they're out working not just sitting on the side of an on ramp waiting for a red light so that they could walk up and down asking for change.
these are the type of people I applaud but they still came here illegally and in certian states they can not be refused health care.

[Ran]

they still came here illegallyNo pity. They can be homeless back in their own country.

[adios]

Politics is not my thing, I quit. Haha, I will say that this thread was not made to start a discussion about Obama and what's going on in the US.

Just to get a few giggle's or laughs, that's it.

[Ran]

Politics is not my thing, I quit. Haha, I will say that this thread was not made to start a discussion about Obama and what's going on in the US.

Just to get a few giggle's or laughs, that's it.Just like with QD's joke thread, it was destined to be turned into a serious butthurt discussion.

I lol'd at the original pic though. :cheers:

[Alan®]

No pity. They can be homeless back in their own country.
as mean and cold hearted as some people will think that it is, it's the absolute truth.

[adios]

as mean and cold hearted as some people will think that it is, it's the absolute truth.
And even though I love my fellow mexicans, I can't help but to agree.

[Ran]

And even though I love my fellow mexicans, I can't help but to agree.I have nothing in the world against Mexicans. Nice people, great food, fun parties, the whole enchilada. I've a problem with illegals who ignore the system's requirements but then expect it to take care of them.

Yeah I know, the process takes forever. Tough sh*t. Take the time and do it right. I, personally, would love to drop everything off in this country (including citizenship) to relocate in Japan and start my life over there. But guess what, I can't just up and do that because Japan would send my happy @ss back here in a heartbeat, as they should. There is also virtually no way to be granted Japanese citizenship without adequately prepared employment, residence, or marriage. Or at least not that I have found. Ignore the system? Get deported. That's the way it works and that's the way it should work here.

Sorry, just a rant.

[adios]

You're the first person I've repped. + Juan!

[Alan®]

I have nothing in the world against Mexicans. Nice people, great food, fun parties, the whole enchilada.
:lmfao: :lmfao:

[Lucky DAWG]

I'll tell you why I'm voting for Obama. I'm tired of the neocon currently in power and the regressive tax policies they have been trying to foist on us. I say tax the rich. Theres no reason the working class should have to carry the lion's share of the tax burden when the major corporations and the top 1% of the population have all the wealth. Oil companies paid 30% of their gross as taxes? So what... if they are giving executives $400 million retirements it sounds like they are doing fine to me:screwy:

And for universal healthcare... why not? I'd rather wait in line for an X-ray than not get one at all and die. There are a lot of working Americans who still can't afford health insurance. For every story I've heard about someone in a socialized country having to wait on a procedure I've heard 2 or 3 stories about someone here in the states not getting the same procedure because they either can't get insurance or they are getting screwed over by their HMO. People in socialized medicine countries live longer than us and are healthier. I know a lot of America's health probalems are more cultrual than the fault of its health care system, but allowing more Americans access to health care will probably be cheaper in the long run. Like preventing people from getting cancer rather than helping them fight cancer. That sort of thing. The more people who are healthy, the more people who can work. The more workers the higher the GDP. etc.

And having a president that is not a neo-con in office would also mean that the whole wiretapping/surveillance/patriot act deal would be resolved. I trust Obama and the Dems with my privacy and my civil liberties more than I do McCain and the neocons. They have both voted for the Patriot Act, but at least Obama voted against the roving wiretaps.





Go to a country like Ireland.




Half my famly lives there currently, my mom was born there. They have free medical care for everyone there. The doctors have no incentive to be highly trained because there is hardly any money in Healthcare there if you are good at what you do.


My grandad has had 3 heart attacks, he is not getting any better and the doctors he keeps getting WHEN HE IS ASSIGNED ONE are horrible and have had no idea what they are doing and have made no progress.


Medical Research and Medical training in different fields of medicine are spurred on by the fact that there is a monetary incentive, that is how the world works; people work harder when they get something out of it.


There are people in Ireland who do the same jobs as people here but get screwed for it because of the insanely high taxes.

I have a soft spot for the poor, i do volunteer work at school and at home. But i think you overestimate how many people out there still try and take advantage of the system.




In an ideal world these socialist programs work, but until we get over the animal instinct in all of us of its a Dog eat Dog world, it will never ever work.

[Lucky DAWG]

Politics is not my thing, I quit. Haha, I will say that this thread was not made to start a discussion about Obama and what's going on in the US.

Just to get a few giggle's or laughs, that's it.




you couldn't have honestly thought that it wouldn't turn this way... this is one of the most polar elections in years.

[tony]

My 2 biggest issues are this.

1. How does a man that has never tried to run a business or anything for that matter get the idea that he knows **** about economic policy

2.How does a guy that has never done anything with foreign policy or military action thinks he can finish a war?

1. Ever heard of the Harvard Law Review?

2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhpKmQCCwB8

The man was explaining possible conflict between the Sunni and Shiite's back in 2002 in great detail while McSame still doesn't know the difference between the two.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkfM7z0-Vdg

That makes him more qualified than McSame to me.

[man]

and who cares if he doesn't vote, its just weeding out the morons if they don't vote

Obviously you care enough to have your panties in a wad about people not voting.

Electing not to vote is no worse than voting if you don't like either candidate.

If someone asked (not forced) you to choose to get raped by a gorilla or a donkey, would you choose?

I have no problem with voting, I have voted in the past (voted in the primaries) and will vote in the future, but trying to vote for the candidate you hate the least is idiotic. The "have to vote" mindset is just another way to keep people under control and happy because they think that they have a say in the government.

[tony]

At lease McCain is intelligent and knows what the fuk he is talking about. Obama doesnt know a god damn thing. THATS why he wont debate McCain, b/c McCain will chew his ass out and shìt him out right there on the stage...and it'd still look better than the original Obama.

-Ant.

See above post, first debate is coming and believe me.. McCain is far below Obama's level as far as intelligence goes.

[man]

McCain is far below Obama's level as far as intelligence goes.

Wow :rolleyes:

Proof?

[tony]

Go to a country like Ireland.



.

Just came out of surgery friday that I had to wait a month for, had I not gone to the ER last week I would have been waiting an extra 2 or 3 months. From my experiences and those around me, the current system is far from great.. hell at least with Universal care I'm not PAYING for the wait. But I forgot, the system is perfect.


personally i have a hard time believing that obama supporters are so educated that they don't even need him to explain anything past his rhetoric.

Try me

[tony]

Wow :rolleyes:

Proof?


Did you not read my other post or do I need more evidence for it to be made obvious that McSame doesn't know what the hell he is doing?

[Lucky DAWG]

Obviously you care enough to have your panties in a wad about people not voting.

Electing not to vote is no worse than voting if you don't like either candidate.

If someone asked (not forced) you to choose to get raped by a gorilla or a donkey, would you choose?

I have no problem with voting, I have voted in the past (voted in the primaries) and will vote in the future, but trying to vote for the candidate you hate the least is idiotic. The "have to vote" mindset is just another way to keep people under control and happy because they think that they have a say in the government.


by panties in a wad you mean calling him an idiot? I'm HAPPY he is not voting. There are way more liberals out there who do not vote then conservatives, so it benefits me...



And i think an elephant and a donkey would have been a better metaphor, but i hardly think it is relevant at all.



Whether or not you LIKE either candidate, one is going to serve the interest of you and your country better then the other in your mind, and to do nothing is pure stupidity when you are given so much.



In reference to the bolded: That is the dumbest thing i have heard, are you trying to tell me you have a conspiracy theory for voting? I would not doubt it has been tampered with before when on the wire like with the Florida controversy (although i don't think it did, but its not far fetched), but to have that overall opinion about the system is retarded.


This sounds like beating a dead horse with a stick, but go to another country where you don't get to vote; no matter how many times someone can tell you that age old saying, it still rings true.


This apathy is the main problem with America today, voting should always be something you do regardless.

[Alan®]

1. Ever heard of the Harvard Law Review?

2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhpKmQCCwB8

The man was explaining possible conflict between the Sunni and Shiite's back in 2002 in great detail while McSame still doesn't know the difference between the two.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkfM7z0-Vdg

That makes him more qualified than McSame to me.
OK great he opposed the war from the beginnig. Reps to him for standing his ground. Unfotunately for him we are there. The guy said 16 months to bring the troops home. Now he has said he maybe changing his position :rolleyes: .

On top of that he thinks that pulling out of iraq will cause the ****es and the sunni's to come to a table and negotiate :thinking: . :lmfao: :lmfao: That's nuts :thinking: .

As far as I'm concerned the video of McCain doesn't prove anything people say flip flopped stuff all the time.

[Lucky DAWG]

Just came out of surgery friday that I had to wait a month for, had I not gone to the ER last week I would have been waiting an extra 2 or 3 months. From my experiences and those around me, the current system is far from great.. hell at least with Universal care I'm not PAYING for the wait. But I forgot, the system is perfect.



Try me



my grandad has waited for 10 years for a transplant and it is nowhere in sight. Your month is nowhere near in comparison.


Don't let me come off as a **** because i feel bad that you had to wait but that is the nature of the beast Tony, you do not know the system there like i have had to with my family. By now my uncles could have mustered up the money for it and he would have gotten the operations he has needed.



Its a train wreck over there.

[man]

Did you not read my other post or do I need more evidence for it to be made obvious that McSame doesn't know what the hell he is doing?

None of them are DOING anything other than reciting speeches at the moment. Talk is cheap.

Since when is knowing the differences b/w very similar cultures/religions a definitive display of intelligence?

[Lucky DAWG]

See above post, first debate is coming and believe me.. McCain is far below Obama's level as far as intelligence goes.



a Harvard degree gets you so far when your whole agenda is borderline socialist and you are completely disconnected from the people that you intend to lead and are incapable of taking a stand and simply attending the Senate to make key voting decisions which time and time again has been shown he does not do.

[Lucky DAWG]

None of them are DOING anything other than reciting speeches at the moment. Talk is cheap.

Since when is knowing the differences b/w very similar cultures/religions a definitive display of intelligence?




I agree on the second part.



McCain just recently has put a lot of his campaign in the hands of another man from the Bush Campaign in 04' (i forget his name) up to this point he has been reciting speeches he has mostly compiled himself with the help of a few others. He can hardly even read a teleprompter.


Obama's eloquence and excellent rhetoric has been read verbatim off of a telepromter written by someone else.

[tony]

OK great he opposed the war from the beginnig. Reps to him for standing his ground. Unfotunately for him we are there. The guy said 16 months to bring the troops home. Now he has said he maybe changing his position :rolleyes: .

On top of that he thinks that pulling out of iraq will cause the ****es and the sunni's to come to a table and negotiate :thinking: . :lmfao: :lmfao: That's nuts :thinking: .

As far as I'm concerned the video of McCain doesn't prove anything people say flip flopped stuff all the time.

What the video proves is this, John McCain had a reputation as a maverick, going against the grain to stand for what he believes in. I respected him as that but now as the GOP nominee his position is to appease his party rather than do what he feels is right. He stole the primary from the STRONGER candidate in Mitt Romney and now he is a puppet for the republican party. Believe it or not I would have voted for Romney over Obama but the minute McCain and Huckabee got together to take the West Virginia primary I lost all respect for the GOP.

So now you have this 71 year old bumbling idiot who is well past his prime and cannot mentally grasp what is going on in America because alzheimer's is probably setting in. He reads his positions from a script given to him by the GOP which is why he is labeled a flip flopper now.

[Alan®]

What the video proves is this, John McCain had a reputation as a maverick, going against the grain to stand for what he believes in. I respected him as that but now as the GOP nominee his position is to appease his party rather than do what he feels is right. He stole the primary from the STRONGER candidate in Mitt Romney and now he is a puppet for the republican party. Believe it or not I would have voted for Romney over Obama but the minute McCain and Huckabee got together to take the West Virginia primary I lost all respect for the GOP.

So now you have this 71 year old bumbling idiot who is well past his prime and cannot mentally grasp what is going on in America because alzheimer's is probably setting in. He reads his positions from a script given to him by the GOP which is why he is labeled a flip flopper now.
I agree with you on the Mitt Romney point. But the whole last paragraph of your post is simply ridiculous.

[Lucky DAWG]

What the video proves is this, John McCain had a reputation as a maverick, going against the grain to stand for what he believes in. I respected him as that but now as the GOP nominee his position is to appease his party rather than do what he feels is right. He stole the primary from the STRONGER candidate in Mitt Romney and now he is a puppet for the republican party. Believe it or not I would have voted for Romney over Obama but the minute McCain and Huckabee got together to take the West Virginia primary I lost all respect for the GOP.

So now you have this 71 year old bumbling idiot who is well past his prime and cannot mentally grasp what is going on in America because alzheimer's is probably setting in. He reads his positions from a script given to him by the GOP which is why he is labeled a flip flopper now.



I agree Mitt Romney was better.





Can you say Obama is doing anything differently though? He is running for the middle by talking about usually conservative christian social ideals. Trying to earn more votes and make him "look" less extreme.




Any candidate that has ever won the presidency has gone apart from his ideas in the general election to appeal to people outside of his normal demograhpic when he has already sealed their votes or atleast so he thinks.




If you are going to attack McCain on that then point the finger at Obama too

[man]

Whether or not you LIKE either candidate, one is going to serve the interest of you and your country better then the other in your mind, and to do nothing is pure stupidity when you are given so much.

Never been one for egocentrism, sorry. And to think either is more right than the other is nothing more than closed-mindedness. Policies always seems right to the people that agree with them.


In reference to the bolded: That is the dumbest thing i have heard, are you trying to tell me you have a conspiracy theory for voting? I would not doubt it has been tampered with before when on the wire like with the Florida controversy (although i don't think it did, but its not far fetched), but to have that overall opinion about the system is retarded.

Not a theory at all.


This sounds like beating a dead horse with a stick, but go to another country where you don't get to vote; no matter how many times someone can tell you that age old saying, it still rings true.

This apathy is the main problem with America today, voting should always be something you do regardless.

I'll bite hard on this , being a crazy CUBAN and all. Seems like YOU are the one out of touch with what democracy is. We have the CHOICE to vote. Perhaps you are the one that needs to go to another country...

Not trying to be harsh here, but it seems like no one is willing to exercise their freedoms, because no one knows how much they are really worth.

[Lucky DAWG]

Never been one for egocentrism, sorry. And to think either is more right than the other is nothing more than closed-mindedness. Policies always seems right to the people that agree with them.



Not a theory at all.



I'll bite hard on this , being a crazy CUBAN and all. Seems like YOU are the one out of touch with what democracy is. We have the CHOICE to vote. Perhaps you are the one that needs to go to another country...




Ofcourse policies seem right to the people that agree with them, that is what society is all about, what are you rambling on about?




What the hell does being Cuban have to be with it? You're right you do have the choice, and you also have the choice to be a responsible adult and go out and try and change something if you don't agree with it.



A miracle candidate is not going to pop out of thin air and say everything you want to hear. Are you just not going to vote until that happens? you won't be voting for a long time if so. If you actually and truely believed in what Obama is saying then i would encourage you to vote, if you wanted McCain then i would be delighted to have another vote on the board for him too.


It doesn't need to be written out that you need to vote for you to realize how important it is.




Exercising your freedoms would be taking a stance, not sitting back and watching the world pass you by. And you are right one vote won't change anything by itself, but by taking a positive attitude you will influence others around you into believing in their choice and that kind of attitude is contagious, or atleast i would hope so in this modern world; otherwise you will let others run all over you.

[tony]

None of them are DOING anything other than reciting speeches at the moment. Talk is cheap.

Since when is knowing the differences b/w very similar cultures/religions a definitive display of intelligence?

Lets define intelligence;

Intelligence: the ability to learn or understand or to deal with new or trying situations : reason; also : the skilled use of reason

In that video McCain is in THEIR region, he has been briefed but he still does not understand the difference between the cultures. That knowledge is detrimental to any solutions being made in Iraq.

John McCain stated himself:


"I know a lot less about economics than I do about military and foreign policy issues. I still need to be educated.”

So if the man has limited knowledge of the culture in Iraq, and limited knowledge of Economics.. two very important issues in this country at the moment but I know I have heard Obama speak at lengths about both subjects, its quite easy to conclude that McCain is not on the same level as Obama as it pertains to things going on in this country today.

Furthermore, its no secret that if you typically put a 71 year old's mental stability vs someone in their mid 40's, the younger person has a greater mental capacity. There are exceptions but I seriously doubt McCain is one.

[Lucky DAWG]

Lets define intelligence;

Intelligence: the ability to learn or understand or to deal with new or trying situations : reason; also : the skilled use of reason

In that video McCain is in THEIR region, he has been briefed but he still does not understand the difference between the cultures. That knowledge is detrimental to any solutions being made in Iraq.

John McCain stated himself:



So if the man has limited knowledge of the culture in Iraq, and limited knowledge of Economics.. two very important issues in this country at the moment but I know I have heard Obama speak at lengths about both subjects, its quite easy to conclude that McCain is not on the same level as Obama as it pertains to things going on in this country today.

Furthermore, its no secret that if you typically put a 71 year old's mental stability vs someone in their mid 40's, the younger person has a greater mental capacity. There are exceptions but I seriously doubt McCain is one.



I agree to a point, Obama physically would have a more intellectual and more capable brain of learning new knowledge based on age, you can't get around that. But i just simply don't think he will be a good leader, he may know more but i just don't think he has good qualities of leadership; plus i just don't agree with a lot of his policies.



I see where you are coming from though Tony and always respectfully disagree because i see the sense in what you say.



But i do not understand where FcMan is coming from on justifying your right to not vote. I know you have the right, you have the right to sit on your ass and watch spounge bob all day; but it doesn't make you a responsible or respectful human being imo

[tony]

Can you say Obama is doing anything differently though? He is running for the middle by talking about usually conservative christian social ideals. Trying to earn more votes and make him "look" less extreme.





I'll totally agree that Obama has pandered, his vote on the FISA Bill (dont see how conservatives can support that) and things he has been saying lately does raise a red flag but at the end of the day, McCain is a continuation of Bush to me while Obama is hopefully a push in a different direction.

Things that I will admit on Obama:

He wont pull out of Iraq, you'd be an idiot to think otherwise

He is a politician, and a smooth talking one at that.. all i can do is trust that he has the good of the people in his heart. But he is not 100% change, then again who is?

Universal healthcare will not happen with Obama, I know you conservatives are scared of that but honestly, nowhere in his economic plan is there room for Universal Healthcare.

He will raise taxes, just like the first Bush did and you know what the result was? A damn good 8 years for the Clintons, they can thank H.W Bush for that.

He can be influenced by lobbyists, not a lot of people realize but Nuclear Energy.. yeah he gets some nice checks from them which is why he pushes it so much.

[Lucky DAWG]

I'll totally agree that Obama has pandered, his vote on the FISA Bill (dont see how conservatives can support that) and things he has been saying lately does raise a red flag but at the end of the day, McCain is a continuation of Bush to me while Obama is hopefully a push in a different direction.

Things that I will admit on Obama:

He wont pull out of Iraq, you'd be an idiot to think otherwise

He is a politician, and a smooth talking one at that.. all i can do is trust that he has the good of the people in his heart. But he is not 100% change, then again who is?

Universal healthcare will not happen with Obama, I know you conservatives are scared of that but honestly, nowhere in his economic plan is there room for Universal Healthcare.

He will raise taxes, just like the first Bush did and you know what the result was? A damn good 8 years for the Clintons, they can thank H.W Bush for that.

He can be influenced by lobbyists, not a lot of people realize but Nuclear Energy.. yeah he gets some nice checks from them which is why he pushes it so much.





Read my last post right before you posted that. You hit the nail on the head before i could even point it out.



Even though im a hard headed republican, i respect the fact you can find fault. And we all know John McCain has plenty as well.



It just comes down to my gut feeling really at the end of the day, because like you said i was completely sold on Mitt Romney, i have no idea how McCain got it over him, but thats the system for you.

[Tank]

once again Tony i applaud your for a very enlightened view on this political race, im not the smartest when it comes to politics but from what ive seen each party has its pro's and con's but reading such discussions and keeping up with the news helps thanks again oh and also to all the other great views and words.

[man]

A miracle candidate is not going to pop out of thin air and say everything you want to hear. Are you just not going to vote until that happens? you won't be voting for a long time if so. If you actually and truely believed in what Obama is saying then i would encourage you to vote, if you wanted McCain then i would be delighted to have another vote on the board for him too.


It doesn't need to be written out that you need to vote for you to realize how important it is.


Exercising your freedoms would be taking a stance, not sitting back and watching the world pass you by. And you are right one vote won't change anything by itself, but by taking a positive attitude you will influence others around you into believing in their choice and that kind of attitude is contagious, or atleast i would hope so in this modern world; otherwise you will let others run all over you.

The only frustrating thing about debating this with you is the fact that you say the right things, but from a different point of view and with a different meaning, without regard for others' views. I understand your mentality and when you mention taking a stance, that is exactly what I'm doing. I have followed both campaigns and am well aware of the policies being discussed. I am exercising my freedom to it's fullest extent.

I do vote as I have said earlier and when you say I am just sitting back watching the world pass me by, you couldn't be further from the truth. Voting for something you don't believe is far more passive than refusing to vote for that same thing.

[Alan®]

Lets define intelligence;

Intelligence: the ability to learn or understand or to deal with new or trying situations : reason; also : the skilled use of reason

In that video McCain is in THEIR region, he has been briefed but he still does not understand the difference between the cultures. That knowledge is detrimental to any solutions being made in Iraq.

John McCain stated himself:



So if the man has limited knowledge of the culture in Iraq, and limited knowledge of Economics.. two very important issues in this country at the moment but I know I have heard Obama speak at lengths about both subjects, its quite easy to conclude that McCain is not on the same level as Obama as it pertains to things going on in this country today.

Furthermore, its no secret that if you typically put a 71 year old's mental stability vs someone in their mid 40's, the younger person has a greater mental capacity. There are exceptions but I seriously doubt McCain is one.

I still don't think that video shows McCain's "Intelligence". I see that video as the equivallent to a blooper on a tv show. He just messed up is all. I have a hard time beliveing that a guy that was in the military, that pushed for the surge, so on and so forth, would honestly not be able to tell you the difference. Hell I'll be honest I can only give you a very limited compare and contrast of the two. And yea ok Obama may have talked about both subjects at length but that doesn't mean that he can actually make the right call based on what he "knows" hell according to what he "knew" we were going to pull out of iraq within 16 months of taking office(something that everyone knows will never happen).

Obama has a lot of stuff in his ecconomic plan that he simply can not pay for(like universal health care) and to add to that he will be hitting hard the small business owners in this country. I'll give you an example.

One of the things on Obama's ecconomic plan is if a small company has over 19 employees and one of them decides to take leave (I forget what for) the employee gets paid meanwhile the employer is having to fill him employee temporarily. My dad has already said if he gets in and gets that through. He will do whatever it takes to get down to 19. And you would be crazy to think that other small business owners won't do the same thing.

To add to this last week a guy called him out on it durring one of his town hall meetings and Obama said "No I'm not oging to do that and I'm not going to raise your taxes either". This after the guy read it straight out of his ecconomic plan. :rolleyes:

Yes a guy that is 40 can learn more than a a guy that is 70 I'll give you that but at the end of the day Obama is about the redistribution of wealth in America and I don't agree with that.

[BB6dohcvtec]

I still don't think that video shows McCain's "Intelligence". I see that video as the equivallent to a blooper on a tv show. He just messed up is all. I have a hard time beliveing that a guy that was in the military, that pushed for the surge, so on and so forth, would honestly not be able to tell you the difference. Hell I'll be honest I can only give you a very limited compare and contrast of the two. And yea ok Obama may have talked about both subjects at length but that doesn't mean that he can actually make the right call based on what he "knows" hell according to what he "knew" we were going to pull out of iraq within 16 months of taking office(something that everyone knows will never happen).

Obama has a lot of stuff in his ecconomic plan that he simply can not pay for(like universal health care) and to add to that he will be hitting hard the small business owners in this country. I'll give you an example.

One of the things on Obama's ecconomic plan is if a small company has over 19 employees and one of them decides to take leave (I forget what for) the employee gets paid meanwhile the employer is having to fill him employee temporarily. My dad has already said if he gets in and gets that through. He will do whatever it takes to get down to 19. And you would be crazy to think that other small business owners won't do the same thing.

To add to this last week a guy called him out on it durring one of his town hall meetings and Obama said "No I'm not oging to do that and I'm not going to raise your taxes either". This after the guy read it straight out of his ecconomic plan. :rolleyes:

Yes a guy that is 40 can learn more than a a guy that is 70 I'll give you that but at the end of the day Obama is about the redistribution of wealth in America and I don't agree with that.

Damn how did he get his final economic plan. didn't know he even had a definite one yet.

[Lucky DAWG]

The only frustrating thing about debating this with you is the fact that you say the right things, but from a different point of view and with a different meaning, without regard for others' views. I understand your mentality and when you mention taking a stance, that is exactly what I'm doing. I have followed both campaigns and am well aware of the policies being discussed. I am exercising my freedom to it's fullest extent.

I do vote as I have said earlier and when you say I am just sitting back watching the world pass me by, you couldn't be further from the truth. Voting for something you don't believe is far more passive than refusing to vote for that same thing.




No trust me i see what you are saying. But is there not one that you favor over the other to even the slightest degree? Even voting for someone like Ron Paul if you liked him would be making a statement and taking a vote away from the two big party candidates.


I just have hard time understanding how you can not like one over the other and then vote for them. I mean hell we all know its your freedom to do that, no one is going to put a gun to your head and 99% of strangers in real life wouldn't say anything to you in person if you told them that and they disagreed with your point of view on not voting.


I guess my point is the way i look at it in my position is that i don't like mccain and i don't like obama, but i know that mccain is more of a step in the direction that i want then Obama is, if that makes any sense...

[tony]

I still don't think that video shows McCain's "Intelligence". I see that video as the equivallent to a blooper on a tv show. He just messed up is all. I have a hard time beliveing that a guy that was in the military, that pushed for the surge, so on and so forth, would honestly not be able to tell you the difference. Hell I'll be honest I can only give you a very limited compare and contrast of the two. And yea ok Obama may have talked about both subjects at length but that doesn't mean that he can actually make the right call based on what he "knows" hell according to what he "knew" we were going to pull out of iraq within 16 months of taking office(something that everyone knows will never happen).



Bloopers is someone tripping over a toy, ladder falling from a roof.. NOT misunderstanding the culture of a present War Zone. You may have a hard time believing it but that is not the only time he has made that "blunder" He doesn't understand, he's too old. By the way he still refers to Vietnamese as "gooks," and I quote:


"I hated the gooks. I will hate them as long as I live."

Thats the man you support.


Obama has a lot of stuff in his ecconomic plan that he simply can not pay for(like universal health care) and to add to that he will be hitting hard the small business owners in this country. I'll give you an example.



Do you read? Comprehend english? If so tell me where it says Universal Healthcare

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare/


One of the things on Obama's ecconomic plan is if a small company has over 19 employees and one of them decides to take leave (I forget what for) the employee gets paid meanwhile the employer is having to fill him employee temporarily. My dad has already said if he gets in and gets that through. He will do whatever it takes to get down to 19. And you would be crazy to think that other small business owners won't do the same thing.



With any politician they don't get it right on every single issue. I'll choose the candidate who plans to pull us out of an economic recession, end the war in Iraq and pursue alternative fuels over say.. your dad's 19 employees, sorry but there are much more important issues to me.

[Lucky DAWG]

Bloopers is someone tripping over a toy, ladder falling from a roof.. NOT misunderstanding the culture of a present War Zone. You may have a hard time believing it but that is not the only time he has made that "blunder" He doesn't understand, he's too old. By the way he still refers to Vietnamese as "gooks," and I quote:



Thats the man you support.



Do you read? Comprehend english? If so tell me where it says Universal Healthcare

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare/



With any politician they don't get it right on every single issue. I'll choose the candidate who plans to pull us out of an economic recession, end the war in Iraq and pursue alternative fuels over say.. your dad's 19 employees, sorry but there are much more important issues to me.




This is true that you can't get the best package all in one man...




But taxing to hell and back the private sector to redistribute the wealth in a time like this is no way to pull a country out of a recession.

[tony]

This is true that you can't get the best package all in one man...




But taxing to hell and back the private sector to redistribute the wealth in a time like this is no way to pull a country out of a recession.

So would you rather him tax the middle and lower classes instead? Someone has to pay, in some fashion or another we will all have to contribute to the cause.

[Alan®]

Bloopers is someone tripping over a toy, ladder falling from a roof.. NOT misunderstanding the culture of a present War Zone. You may have a hard time believing it but that is not the only time he has made that "blunder" He doesn't understand, he's too old. By the way he still refers to Vietnamese as "gooks," and I quote:



Thats the man you support.



Do you read? Comprehend english? If so tell me where it says Universal Healthcare

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare/



With any politician they don't get it right on every single issue. I'll choose the candidate who plans to pull us out of an economic recession, end the war in Iraq and pursue alternative fuels over say.. your dad's 19 employees, sorry but there are much more important issues to me.
Tony fact of the matter is you have still yet to definitevly proved that he misunderstood the culture of a war zone. All you have shown me is one video where he go two tribes mixed up. We all make small mistakes like that. McCain is a man no different or better from the rest of us.


As far as the universal health care thing


Well, look, I believe in universal health care, as does Sen. Clinton. And the point of the debate, is that Sen. Clinton repeatedly claims that I don't stand for universal health care. And, you know, for Sen. Clinton to say that, I think, is simply not accurate. Every expert has said that anybody who wants health care under my plan will be able to obtain it. President Clinton's own secretary of Labor has said that my plan does more to reduce costs and as a consequence makes sure that the people who need health care right now, all across America, will be able to obtain it. And we do more to reduce costs than any other plan that's been out there.


http://obama.senate.gov/speech/070125-the_time_has_co/
Notice the title.

[ironchef]

So would you rather him tax the middle and lower classes instead? Someone has to pay, in some fashion or another we will all have to contribute to the cause.Rather him keep the current tax levels in place, if not lower them. However he should focus on redistributing government spending, trimming the excess (which there is way too much of), and balancing the budget.

[Alan®]

Another thing I don't believe that any canidate will end the war any time soon. As much as Obama ranted on about "16 months" :blah: :blah: :blah: he won't and can't do it.

And yes we need a leader that is going to help us through the war and our economic problems but don't you think that policies like the ones I mentioned would only be detrimental not beneficial.

[tony]

Rather him keep the current tax levels in place, if not lower them. However he should focus on redistributing government spending, trimming the excess (which there is way too much of), and balancing the budget.


In a perfect world legislators don't add pork spending to bills with genuine intentions, but we don't live in a perfect world. If politicians don't get funding for their constituents then they lose their seat when the next election comes up, our system is not set up to trim excess spending.

To continue to fund a $9 Billion a month war, explore alternative energy sources, even drill for new oil is going to cost money.. that money comes from somewhere.. the taxpayers. So again I ask, who should foot the bill? Middle class? The poor? Or the rich? Or do we continue this misnomer that lower taxes on the rich trickles down to the average U.S citizen.

[ironchef]

Thats the point, Obama should get us out of Iraq, save $9 billion a month, cut down on defense spending, and do whatever else he has to do to make it work. Increasing the tax rates even if only on the rich won't solve the problem. They'll be able to find new loopholes, new tax shelters, take money off shore, etc.

[Alan®]

They'll be able to find new loopholes, new tax shelters, take money off shore, etc.
Here we go again with the evil rich's loop holes :blah: :blah: :blah:

[ironchef]

Whoa there. I've got nothing against them doing that. If I was in their position I'd be doing the same. But thats the point I'm making, even if they raise taxes on the rich, the rich will be able to find ways around it.

[tony]

Tony fact of the matter is you have still yet to definitevly proved that he misunderstood the culture of a war zone. All you have shown me is one video where he go two tribes mixed up. We all make small mistakes like that. McCain is a man no different or better from the rest of us.



First, I'm not here to prove anything to you because at the end of the day, McCain is going to lose.. if you don't see that McCain does not have the mental capacity to effectively lead a country then nothing I type will sway that kind of ignorance anyway.

Second, McCain better be different from the rest of us if he is trying to become Commander in Chief. First and foremost the Commander in Chief should not mistake the demographics of a present and at times hostile occupation. Those are the kind of mistakes that got us in this situation in the first place.. not understanding what is REALLY going on in Iraq





As far as the universal health care thing




http://obama.senate.gov/speech/070125-the_time_has_co/
Notice the title.

You cite an article and quote from January 2007, I give you THE direct and current source in Barack Obama's healthcare plan. His positions have changed over the course of the campaign. Again, nowhere in his CURRENT plan does he mention Universal Healthcare.

[tony]

Thats the point, Obama should get us out of Iraq, save $9 billion a month, cut down on defense spending, and do whatever else he has to do to make it work. Increasing the tax rates even if only on the rich won't solve the problem. They'll be able to find new loopholes, new tax shelters, take money off shore, etc.


It tends to be a bit complicated, the reason why Barack wont pull out of Iraq will not be because he does not want to.. it is because it requires a LOT of diplomacy and working with Iran, Syria and other nations in the middle east.

Cutting spending on defense would be very wrong, especially with the instability in the middle east between Israel and Iran. Bring the troops home but keep the military strong, that requires revenue. Again, the next president has to explore alternative energy, handle the economic crisis and balance the budget.. that does not happen without some kind of revenue coming in. Someone has to foot the bill..

[Lucky DAWG]

Whoa there. I've got nothing against them doing that. If I was in their position I'd be doing the same. But thats the point I'm making, even if they raise taxes on the rich, the rich will be able to find ways around it.


I agree completely, the government should not be punishing the rich. They should be giving them incentives to invest here in America instead of offshores and stop penalizing them and taking such a big brother stance.



And no i don't want them to tax the lower and middle class more, i want Fair Tax to be instituted if anything and have the IRS obliterated, no income taxes.



The rich are the ones that stimulate the economy and make the decisions that ultimately affect the rest of it whether or not we like it. We need them to have more confidence in America and create more jobs here, that is the problem.


Social issues are the least of our concerns right now, we need to get the country financially secure before we do anything; we are no longer the super power we used to be.



And although i am an avid supporter of Military funding, it can be cut back. This is coming from a republican saying this, even though the majority of ALL technological advances have come from military incentives; our military spending is greater then every other country's in the world combined, thats just way over the top and we simply can't afford it now.

[Alan®]

First, I'm not here to prove anything to you because at the end of the day, McCain is going to lose.. if you don't see that McCain does not have the mental capacity to effectively lead a country then nothing I type will sway that kind of ignorance anyway.
Nor do I expect you to prove anything but yet you make a claim with no evidence to back it up and yet your adiment about it. I honestly like having these discussion with you, not debates, discussions because it makes me do research and evaluate certian standpoints. However I simply can not agree with you that the fact that you think that he doesnt have the mental capacity to be the president makes me an ignorant person. Frankly I think that kind of comment in it of itself is kind of ignorant my :2cents: nothing personal but it's my opinoin.


Second, McCain better be different from the rest of us if he is trying to become Commander in Chief. First and foremost the Commander in Chief should not mistake the demographics of a present and at times hostile occupation. Those are the kind of mistakes that got us in this situation in the first place.. not understanding what is REALLY going on in Iraq
Your doing what the media does and misconstruing my comment. I'm not going to argue this point any further. Everyone accidentally for a breif second mixes up something with something else. I guarantee you that every president has said something backwards at one point in time and if you give Obama enough time he will as well. And when he does will you think differently of him? I highly doubt getting something backwards momentarily got us into iraq.




You cite an article and quote from January 2007, I give you THE direct and current source in Barack Obama's healthcare plan. His positions have changed over the course of the campaign. Again, nowhere in his CURRENT plan does he mention Universal Healthcare.
Yes your right in his current plan he doesn't mention universal healthcare but as you said he has swapped positions on many subjects 2 of which we have now proven. Two things that got him to where he is now.
I simply put those up to show that he DID support it.

Like I said I enjoy these discussions because I'm the type of person that likes to know everything I can about a subject and you help to acheive that. Just cause I may disagree with you on ceritian things doesn't mean I don't think your a good guy.


Respectfully
-Alan

[Alan®]

Whoa there. I've got nothing against them doing that. If I was in their position I'd be doing the same. But thats the point I'm making, even if they raise taxes on the rich, the rich will be able to find ways around it.
My bad lol. Still though even with all the loop holes one way or the other they will still pay more.

[BanginJimmy]

Few points I need to make.

1. The speech that McCain said he knew very little about economics was made back in 05, well before he ever threw his hat in for president. There is also a very large difference between the microeconomics that most of us have a vague idea of, and macroeconomics that the president has to have a basic, and no more, knowlege of.

2. The Bush tax cuts didnt raise taxes on anyone. People that imply that are simply adding information to benefit their bias. We are not in a recession, its just a very slow economy. Several factors add into this but the main ones being the price of oil, natural disasters, and the presidential election. Iraq has much less to do with it than people like to admit. If anything it helps because of the amount of added cash into the economy when the contractors and military come home.

3. Obama has every intention to raise taxes on EVERYONE. Do a quick study on the evolution of the income tax and the 16th amendment. These tax increases for the "filthy rich" will simply trickle down to lower and lower tax brackets. Also, THE TRUELY RICH DONT PAY A SINGLE PENNY IN INCOME TAXES. They pay capital gains taxes and its a very simple legal matter to have a main residence moved to a more lenient country while never leaving the US. The people most affected by raising of income taxes will be the working rich, they are the ones that dump huge amounts of cash into our economy on their expensive toys and homes.

4. Obama isnt much more of a speaker than McCain is. I'm sure everyone remembers his meaningless babbling at a townhall meeting in NC, I believe it was. If you want to talk about McCains lack of intelligence because of his issues with different sects of Islam fine, but I can assure everyone here that you couldnt name half of the differences between the many different sects of christianity either. I will also take experience over book smarts any day of the week.

5. Taxing corporations HURTS the average joe. Added SS, Medicare, and payroll taxes lessen raises and eliminates jobs. Those same taxes also raise the prices of goods that they produce.

I'm sure I will think of more to say, but I need to get to bed, I have school in the morning.

[Lucky DAWG]

Bangin Jimmy for president?

[BanginJimmy]

Hell no, I have more skeletons in my closet than 4 Kennedys combined. Even Al Gore would beat me in a landslide.

[Lucky DAWG]

Welllllll i tried



hit me up for Election 2032 if you reconsider, i'll be the campaign manager

[Alan®]

pick me to be running mate :yes:

[BanginJimmy]

Well if I do ever run then my first policy to push would be to bring back leaded fuel and big blocks.

I would also be called a war monger

[Lucky DAWG]

Well if I do ever run then my first policy to push would be to bring back leaded fuel and big blocks.

I would also be called a war monger




He who has the biggest stick... :police:

[ShooterMcGavin]

um wrong section?

[Total_Blender]

Just to get a few giggle's or laughs, that's it.

Is IA ever good for anything else?:lmfao:

[Humphrizzle]

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b226/97accordjdm/reraragger.png