View Full Version : This is for all you Z4 Roadster haters out there.... 56k = who has this **** still?
©hris
07-09-2008, 05:35 PM
:boobies:
http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p389/Chris04Z4/1.jpg
http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p389/Chris04Z4/10.jpg
http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p389/Chris04Z4/11.jpg
http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p389/Chris04Z4/12.jpg
http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p389/Chris04Z4/13.jpg
http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p389/Chris04Z4/14.jpg
http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p389/Chris04Z4/15.jpg
http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p389/Chris04Z4/16.jpg
http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p389/Chris04Z4/17.jpg
http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p389/Chris04Z4/18.jpg
http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p389/Chris04Z4/1a.jpg
http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p389/Chris04Z4/2.jpg
http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p389/Chris04Z4/20.jpg
http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p389/Chris04Z4/21.jpg
http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p389/Chris04Z4/22.jpg
http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p389/Chris04Z4/3.jpg
http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p389/Chris04Z4/4.jpg
http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p389/Chris04Z4/5.jpg
http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p389/Chris04Z4/6.jpg
http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p389/Chris04Z4/7.jpg
IndianStig
07-09-2008, 05:39 PM
You need to get some BBS LM's.
This is nice, like i had suggested earlier. ;) Nice, clean OEM look.
http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p389/Chris04Z4/6.jpg
But your car still hasn't got **** on a 300zx man! lol look at the 300zx thread in my previous posts chris
FRYLOCK
07-09-2008, 05:41 PM
:boobies:
http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p389/Chris04Z4/20.jpg
Fake but holy ****
©hris
07-09-2008, 05:42 PM
Fake but holy ****
lol yeah i laughed at that.... guy thinks he is clive owen or something lol
©hris
07-09-2008, 05:45 PM
But your car still hasn't got **** on a 300zx man! lol look at the 300zx thread in my previous posts chris
always did love those cars!
BiH1320
07-09-2008, 05:48 PM
First pic is my fave.
Nissan Sean
07-09-2008, 05:56 PM
dont wrry about them haters. the Z4 is a very nice car, who cares if the majority of the owners are women or gheys? id much rather drive your Z4 then all these ugly Honda hatch backs.lol . 1st pic =the sex
IndianStig
07-09-2008, 07:05 PM
Guess what?
I might be able to get you some E90 series M3 wheels on the low if interested. Factory tires on them, less then 2-3k miles I'd imagine.
81911SC
07-09-2008, 07:13 PM
So now your trying to convince us you're gay? We know, dude.
Random Hero
07-09-2008, 07:37 PM
Cute.
Thanks for sharing your girly side with us. :goodjob:
BobbyFresco
07-09-2008, 07:53 PM
Chris, I don't know why you still let people's opinions get to you...
You bought your car for you and no one else so just enjoy it and take the good with the bad....:cheers:
Alan®
07-09-2008, 07:58 PM
:boobies:
http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p389/Chris04Z4/1.jpg
http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p389/Chris04Z4/15.jpg
http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p389/Chris04Z4/17.jpg
These look good the rest look like garbage
OneSlow5pt0
07-09-2008, 08:22 PM
love black with red leather
civic95
07-09-2008, 09:35 PM
I like this one the best
http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p389/Chris04Z4/1a.jpg
welery
07-09-2008, 09:38 PM
Z4's are nice cars, but you're really paying a lot for a brand.
DeutscheBAG!
07-09-2008, 11:01 PM
So now your trying to convince us you're gay? We know, dude.
HAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHAHA LOL HAHAHAHHAHAHA
UpSideDownDesi
07-09-2008, 11:46 PM
only thing i would do with a Z4 is and seems like they execute it really well too.....
http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p389/Chris04Z4/20.jpg
BKgen®
07-10-2008, 12:10 AM
dead sexy.
http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p389/Chris04Z4/18.jpg
speedminded
07-10-2008, 12:23 AM
This is for all you Z4 Roadster haters out there.... 56k = who has this **** still?LOLOL! Am I supposed to like the Z4 now?
At least show a sexy one, even if it is a coupe...
http://www.7sec.tw/U/2/3/4523/4523.8861.86032.jpg
http://www.7sec.tw/U/2/3/4523/4523.8862.76470.jpg
http://www.7sec.tw/U/2/3/4523/4523.8867.19319.jpg
http://www.7sec.tw/U/2/3/4523/4523.8868.84215.jpg
http://www.7sec.tw/U/2/3/4523/4523.8871.91014.jpg
http://www.7sec.tw/U/2/3/4523/4523.8872.71147.jpg
csmiths
07-10-2008, 12:25 AM
http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p389/Chris04Z4/1.jpg
you sir need to make your car look like this, i dont care what ppl say, i think if done right it will look sick, like this one for example is awesome
BobbyFresco
07-10-2008, 12:50 AM
One thing that I have learned is that no matter what one drives, there will always be someone that will hate. It's the same across the board regardless of the make's origin, be it American, Japanese, or European.
Anyway, a pic of my old Z.
Vteckidd
07-10-2008, 12:56 AM
should go nice with your new vagina
HAR HAR HAR
ThaABomb
07-10-2008, 01:49 AM
Z4's are ugly, but they're reasonably quick. Quite frankly, I think if you got the Z4 instead of the M roadster, you wasted your money.
fawk_you
07-10-2008, 04:24 AM
LOLOL! Am I supposed to like the Z4 now?
At least show a sexy one, even if it is a coupe...
Awesome.
I always loved the z4 coupe... But the roadster, um no..
These pictures did nothing.. Z4's suck, and in that same price range, you can get such better cars..Can't beleive you paid 28k for one..
i4_garage
07-10-2008, 05:25 AM
for each his own...i personally like to have a different car than everyone else, that's why i would rather have a Z4 than a S2000
Elbow
07-10-2008, 05:37 AM
Hmmm they are still lame...nice try lol.
d_day87
07-10-2008, 07:38 AM
First pic is my fave.
x2
Sammich
07-10-2008, 08:51 AM
LOLOL! Am I supposed to like the Z4 now?
At least show a sexy one, even if it is a coupe...
http://www.7sec.tw/U/2/3/4523/4523.8861.86032.jpg
http://www.7sec.tw/U/2/3/4523/4523.8862.76470.jpg
http://www.7sec.tw/U/2/3/4523/4523.8867.19319.jpg
http://www.7sec.tw/U/2/3/4523/4523.8868.84215.jpg
http://www.7sec.tw/U/2/3/4523/4523.8871.91014.jpg
http://www.7sec.tw/U/2/3/4523/4523.8872.71147.jpg
THREAD SAVED:D
©hris
07-10-2008, 09:22 AM
just wait and see what i have planned for this thing....
dont care what people think about the car lol.... I had one of the nicest EM2s in GA, I have one of the most unique MR2s in GA, Im on car # 17 at 24 years old.... i have had everything from a 1.5L Hondas to 5.8L Mustangs.....
The Z4 is just another piece of fun added to the collection....
Just wait and see whats in store for it :)
^^ fair enough.. change my mind!
Are you ever going to work on the MR2? those headlights got to go..
But i agree with one thing, your civic was def one of the nicest..
Sammich
07-10-2008, 09:42 AM
^^ fair enough.. change my mind!
Are you ever going to work on the MR2? those headlights got to go..
But i agree with one thing, your civic was def one of the nicest..
X2 ON EVERYTHING SAID IN THIS POST
Vteckidd
07-10-2008, 11:20 AM
just wait and see what i have planned for this thing....
dont care what people think about the car lol.... I had one of the nicest EM2s in GA, I have one of the most unique MR2s in GA, Im on car # 17 at 24 years old.... i have had everything from a 1.5L Hondas to 5.8L Mustangs.....
The Z4 is just another piece of fun added to the collection....
Just wait and see whats in store for it :)
i wanna grow up an be like you
chuck
07-10-2008, 11:29 AM
screw the cars...i just want to see the chicks that drive them!!
ha :D
speedminded
07-10-2008, 11:54 AM
http://www.ruji.net/store/images/bmw_z4_01_preview.jpg
just wait and see what i have planned for this thing....
dont care what people think about the car lol.... I had one of the nicest EM2s in GA, I have one of the most unique MR2s in GA, Im on car # 17 at 24 years old.... i have had everything from a 1.5L Hondas to 5.8L Mustangs.....
The Z4 is just another piece of fun added to the collection....
Just wait and see whats in store for it :)As for Honda's and considering the volume of them out there only a select few are "clean", you have ALOT to compete with when it comes to BMW's though.
This local one is Craig's aka "Mcoupe" on bimmerforums...
ranger250x
07-10-2008, 11:44 PM
whats every one got against z4's? only fruitcakes and girls drive them?? couldnt the same be said about eclipse's, civics, and V6 mustangs?
Terror
07-17-2008, 09:28 PM
Man i love those cars! always wanted one!
Terror
07-17-2008, 09:31 PM
Z4's are ugly, but they're reasonably quick. Quite frankly, I think if you got the Z4 instead of the M roadster, you wasted your money.
if you bought an acura RL.. you wasted your money. quit hatin'
speedminded
07-18-2008, 03:36 PM
if you bought an acura RL.. you wasted your money. quit hatin'You can buy a more top of the line Acura than the RL?
Nemesis
07-18-2008, 03:52 PM
i wanna grow up an be like you
lol
better than another s2k!
Yea right. S2k's are way better and less expensive.
Nemesis
07-18-2008, 03:55 PM
Yeah I dunno, I live around a pretty wealthy area and I see Z4s a lot. Usually driven by older MILFS, but rarely dudes. V6 mustangs included. I dont hate, but if I wasnt a big guy Id consider an S2k over the Z4 any day.
©hris
07-18-2008, 04:30 PM
S2k may be a faster car but the Z4 will drop a girls panties much faster than the S2k.....
If i wanted a car that performs well and that is fast.... i'll just go take the MR2 for a spin :)
S2k may be a faster car but the Z4 will drop a girls panties much faster than the S2k.....
If i wanted a car that performs well and that is fast.... i'll just go take the MR2 for a spin :)
You wish. Panties fly off when v-tec engages:boobies:
©hris
07-18-2008, 05:43 PM
You wish. Panties fly off when v-tec engages:boobies:
i bet you my top goes down faster lol wanna race tops?
mine does it in less than 4 seconds.... and its with a motor. Beat that :D
SixSquared
07-18-2008, 10:41 PM
I still like Z3's better.
S2k may be a faster car but the Z4 will drop a girls panties much faster than the S2k.....
If i wanted a car that performs well and that is fast.... i'll just go take the MR2 for a spin :)
If you wanted to have a car that drops girl's panties, you should of gotten a Porsche buddy..
And its more car for the $$..
Elbow
07-28-2008, 10:26 AM
I still like Z3's better.
Except they are SLOW AS BALLS.
antiv6
07-28-2008, 10:50 AM
i really like how the z4s look
z4>s2k
Mike Lowrey
07-28-2008, 10:58 AM
I did not respect the Z4's before your post....and, I still do not respect them after your post.....
willum14pb
07-28-2008, 12:27 PM
slow, overpriced, and made for bitches. It looks OK at best. Stop trying to get people to like your z4 because you feel like your balls have belittled since you've gotten it.
willum14pb
07-28-2008, 12:32 PM
just wait and see what i have planned for this thing....
dont care what people think about the car lol.... I had one of the nicest EM2s in GA, I have one of the most unique MR2s in GA, Im on car # 17 at 24 years old.... i have had everything from a 1.5L Hondas to 5.8L Mustangs.....
The Z4 is just another piece of fun added to the collection....
Just wait and see whats in store for it :)
The level of douchebag you posess far exceeds that of your average. Stop proclaiming that you had one of the nicest cars of this and that model, that's your opinion, ******. I think your EM2 and your MR2 both suck ass and on top of that look like ass. No one cares that you've had 17 cars, and quite frankly the fact that you have had 17 cars at age 24 probably means you can't drive. Hence why you don't have a G35 anymore. Your word of advice for that mistake was "don't trust people who wave you on into traffic." No ****? You gonna tell me to take showers so that i don't smell bad too? If you like your car, cool, don't post pictures of other ones because yours sucks and people hated on it and you don't want people to hate on it, so you can feel proud about overpaying for a **** bucket. Be your own man and stop worrying about what other people think. Furthermore, shut the **** up.
willum14pb
07-28-2008, 12:34 PM
S2k may be a faster car but the Z4 will drop a girls panties much faster than the S2k.....
If i wanted a car that performs well and that is fast.... i'll just go take the MR2 for a spin :)
The car doesn't matter in your case, once a girl gets a look at your fugly mugg you've got no shot. So stop trying to justify your retarded purchase. Again, shut the **** up.
white_rice
07-28-2008, 12:41 PM
:smileownehaha
©hris
07-28-2008, 01:23 PM
The car doesn't matter in your case, once a girl gets a look at your fugly mugg you've got no shot. So stop trying to justify your retarded purchase. Again, shut the **** up.
ur gay
willum14pb
07-28-2008, 01:42 PM
ur gay
I know you are but what am i?! :bump:
Sammich
07-28-2008, 01:48 PM
WILLIAM FOR PRESIDENT LOL
Nemesis
07-28-2008, 07:07 PM
The level of douchebag you posess far exceeds that of your average. Stop proclaiming that you had one of the nicest cars of this and that model, that's your opinion, ******. I think your EM2 and your MR2 both suck ass and on top of that look like ass. No one cares that you've had 17 cars, and quite frankly the fact that you have had 17 cars at age 24 probably means you can't drive. Hence why you don't have a G35 anymore. Your word of advice for that mistake was "don't trust people who wave you on into traffic." No ****? You gonna tell me to take showers so that i don't smell bad too? If you like your car, cool, don't post pictures of other ones because yours sucks and people hated on it and you don't want people to hate on it, so you can feel proud about overpaying for a **** bucket. Be your own man and stop worrying about what other people think. Furthermore, shut the **** up.
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao:
Elbow
07-28-2008, 07:23 PM
Owned.
4eGv6o3
07-28-2008, 08:18 PM
Definitely not a fan of the Z4. My friend had one and had to trade it in cause he got so much **** for being :gay: Gay. Not just form me but from everyone that's not GAY.
BTW, who says that women drop panties to the sight of Z4's? I've always thought that you'd get a lot of short shorts dropping like crazy at the pride parades.
Much rather have a Civic or S2K, but that's my 2cents. If this is what you like then enjoy.
willum14pb
07-29-2008, 05:55 AM
Definitely not a fan of the Z4. My friend had one and had to trade it in cause he got so much **** for being :gay: Gay. Not just form me but from everyone that's not GAY.
BTW, who says that women drop panties to the sight of Z4's? I've always thought that you'd get a lot of short shorts dropping like crazy at the pride parades.
Much rather have a Civic or S2K, but that's my 2cents. If this is what you like then enjoy.
No point in arguing. He "loves his ***** car". I can't imagine how angry he was when he found out the Z4 was not going to help with his "charming the ladies". Lololol.
©hris
07-29-2008, 11:41 AM
No point in arguing. He "loves his ***** car". I can't imagine how angry he was when he found out the Z4 was not going to help with his "charming the ladies". Lololol.
u are born in 1987... I didnt need mommy and daddy with me when i went to sign for my Z4. Where do you go to charm the ladies??? the mall?? :lmfao:
excuse me... can I buy you a cranberry juice??
I didnt get the Z4 to charm the ladies... I got the Z4 simply because I wanted something different than everyone else. I bought the MR2 and the Z4 because they are unique when comparing to an S2k, Evo, STI, Or any other car on the road for that matter...
It turns heads and people admire it....
Its about the overall driving experience.... not how fast you can go down 85 lol
willum14pb
07-29-2008, 11:55 AM
u are born in 1987... I didnt need mommy and daddy with me when i went to sign for my Z4. Where do you go to charm the ladies??? the mall?? :lmfao:
excuse me... can I buy you a cranberry juice??
I didnt get the Z4 to charm the ladies... I got the Z4 simply because I wanted something different than everyone else. I bought the MR2 and the Z4 because they are unique when comparing to an S2k, Evo, STI, Or any other car on the road for that matter...
It turns heads and people admire it....
Its about the overall driving experience.... not how fast you can go down 85 lol
Impressive with the age cutdown. I'm 21, you're 24.. right? Well guess what cupcake, mommy and daddy didn't sign and they don't pay for ****. The mall and cranberry juice? Lame dude. I'm not in elementary school. Step up your game. How come everytime someone cuts down thte Z4 your defense is "it drops panties bro". I've never turned my head for a z4, and i have never heard of anyone turn their head for a Z4 unless it was a ***** going, OOO THAT CARS CUTE! I've driven a Z4 and the overall driving experience blows my ****. It handles like a soap box car and the acceleration is that of a lawn mower. You are aware the EVO is a great track car right? and WTF are you talking about with "i didnt wanna be like everyone else, so i got a Z4 which i see 400 of a day, and an MR2 which every poor man gets for his "sports car". They're like civics with RWD. Just be honest, you got the BMW because you thought it'd help you pick up girls. Not for yourself, and for damn sure not because you like the way it DRIVES. I see more Z4's on the road than Evo's STI's. S2k's however everyone has one, so there's your only valid point. On another note, it's sad that it took you almost 2 days to come up with a ****ty response to my post. Dolt
OnURleft
07-29-2008, 12:20 PM
Lol at Z4's not handeling well. Fantastic chassis, awesome track cars and unlike S2k's (which I love) feel expensive, ride nice and actually drive and feel like you won't die if you get in a collision with a Geo. They are hard to beat with the right tires and pads...Unlike evo's which suffer massive brake cooling problems on the track. If anyone actually went to the track to get this type of experience then they'd know what they are talknig about, unfotunatly everyone just blabs this and that when they actually have no experience to back up their opinions. I especially love the subjective "they are slow as lawn mower comment", when stock Si's trap 104, and can pull upwards of 135 on the back straight at Road A..something a stock Evo couldn't do, even while roasting a set of $350 HT-10's in a day.
The only thing I have to say is I believe I saw this Z4 and isn't it automatic? If so, then chick magnet for all the wrong reasons.
These things are track rats, and not just the M's the standard Z's are great as well. It's just a shame so many old men, dumb women and homo's choose to drive them along with Miata's, S2k's, SLK350's etc.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=358303246535577681
willum14pb
07-29-2008, 12:31 PM
oh boy, here comes the e30 BMW fanboy
©hris
07-29-2008, 01:24 PM
Lol at Z4's not handeling well. Fantastic chassis, awesome track cars and unlike S2k's (which I love) feel expensive, ride nice and actually drive and feel like you won't die if you get in a collision with a Geo. They are hard to beat with the right tires and pads...Unlike evo's which suffer massive brake cooling problems on the track. If anyone actually went to the track to get this type of experience then they'd know what they are talknig about, unfotunatly everyone just blabs this and that when they actually have no experience to back up their opinions. I especially love the subjective "they are slow as lawn mower comment", when stock Si's trap 104, and can pull upwards of 135 on the back straight at Road A..something a stock Evo couldn't do, even while roasting a set of $350 HT-10's in a day.
The only thing I have to say is I believe I saw this Z4 and isn't it automatic? If so, then chick magnet for all the wrong reasons.
These things are track rats, and not just the M's the standard Z's are great as well. It's just a shame so many old men, dumb women and homo's choose to drive them along with Miata's, S2k's, SLK350's etc.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=358303246535577681
:cheers:
©hris
07-29-2008, 01:29 PM
Impressive with the age cutdown. I'm 21, you're 24.. right? Well guess what cupcake, mommy and daddy didn't sign and they don't pay for ****. The mall and cranberry juice? Lame dude. I'm not in elementary school. Step up your game. How come everytime someone cuts down thte Z4 your defense is "it drops panties bro". I've never turned my head for a z4, and i have never heard of anyone turn their head for a Z4 unless it was a ***** going, OOO THAT CARS CUTE! I've driven a Z4 and the overall driving experience blows my ****. It handles like a soap box car and the acceleration is that of a lawn mower. You are aware the EVO is a great track car right? and WTF are you talking about with "i didnt wanna be like everyone else, so i got a Z4 which i see 400 of a day, and an MR2 which every poor man gets for his "sports car". They're like civics with RWD. Just be honest, you got the BMW because you thought it'd help you pick up girls. Not for yourself, and for damn sure not because you like the way it DRIVES. I see more Z4's on the road than Evo's STI's. S2k's however everyone has one, so there's your only valid point. On another note, it's sad that it took you almost 2 days to come up with a ****ty response to my post. Dolt
2 days of doing things other than giving a **** about what you have to say in your last post.... sorry I quit whoring up IA with when I grew up.
your comparing my MR2 to a civic??? :screwy:
the MR2 is not only just as fast as that ****subishi you got but throw in the RWD and LSD Tranny and you got a car that is much more fun to drive.
OnURleft
07-29-2008, 01:47 PM
oh boy, here comes the e30 BMW fanboy
stating facts is stating facts. Ranting when you have no facts to back your opinion is looking like an idiot. It's hilarious how many ricers on this forum do that. Your Evo dosn't hide your APC stickers and your iron board wing you hold in your heart. You have no taste, you bought an Evo to be the coolest Civic. I can tell by how to speak, I've instructed riced out civic owners with more class than you. Ranting on someone who bought a nice car to be different shows your tastelessness. And..
Personally E30's suck unless the entire front end and motor is swapped out with E36 parts..then they still have a crap for a rear end design. They are sh.it unless you want a descently quick car track car that will last for 450k. They do make great autocross toys though and will run over almost anything new with very little invested in them.
ATL_EG
07-29-2008, 01:50 PM
thread of brutality!!
the z4's cool i guess... it looks like a shark :2cents:
willum14pb
07-29-2008, 06:23 PM
2 days of doing things other than giving a **** about what you have to say in your last post.... sorry I quit whoring up IA with when I grew up.
your comparing my MR2 to a civic??? :screwy:
the MR2 is not only just as fast as that ****subishi you got but throw in the RWD and LSD Tranny and you got a car that is much more fun to drive.
i would have believed that, if you hadn't responded to a comment i made AFTER that one. And your MR2 is no where near as fast as my evo, i can gaurantee that.
willum14pb
07-29-2008, 06:24 PM
stating facts is stating facts. Ranting when you have no facts to back your opinion is looking like an idiot. It's hilarious how many ricers on this forum do that. Your Evo dosn't hide your APC stickers and your iron board wing you hold in your heart. You have no taste, you bought an Evo to be the coolest Civic. I can tell by how to speak, I've instructed riced out civic owners with more class than you. Ranting on someone who bought a nice car to be different shows your tastelessness. And..
Personally E30's suck unless the entire front end and motor is swapped out with E36 parts..then they still have a crap for a rear end design. They are sh.it unless you want a descently quick car track car that will last for 450k. They do make great autocross toys though and will run over almost anything new with very little invested in them.
i'm not reading this post, all i know is, any car can handle well if you replace it's entire suspension system as you stated before.
Got Milk?
07-29-2008, 06:24 PM
i never liked these.
Nemesis
07-29-2008, 06:30 PM
Im suprised that nobody has mentioned , if you need a car to drop panties, you probably have a small wank.
Im suprised that nobody has mentioned , if you need a car to drop panties, you probably have a small wank.
i get bitches in my escort.. :goodjob:
4eGv6o3
07-29-2008, 08:55 PM
Im suprised that nobody has mentioned , if you need a car to drop panties, you probably have a small wank.
Well put:goodjob: I don't need to use my car to get women, hence why I drive an EVO :bump:
Mike Lowrey
07-29-2008, 08:59 PM
I got the Z4 simply because I wanted something different than everyone else.
:lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao:
Digipix
07-29-2008, 11:58 PM
[QUOTE=speedminded]http://www.ruji.net/store/images/bmw_z4_01_preview.jpg
this is the only one i like but i still would not want it
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