13b Turbo Miata W/pics

[redrumracer]

Ok so this guy here http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___Mazda-Miata-with-Turbo-Rotary-13B-Engine-Trans-RearEnd_W0QQitemZ120276965502QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20Tr ucksQQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item120276965502 #ebayphotohosting is selling a miata with a 13b right? well thats cool and all but i have one little question, HOW THE HELL DOES THE INTERCOOLER DO ANY REAL GOOD IF IT CANT GET FRESH AIR!!!
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh24/xxredrumracerxx/c846_1.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh24/xxredrumracerxx/c4e4_1.jpg

[Boosted FC]

Good question. Maybe you should contact him & ask him that same question.

[redrumracer]

Good question. Maybe you should contact him & ask him that same question.
sounds like a plan will do and if he responds ill tell everyone exactly how it works.

[DrAE86Toreno]

maybe he just needed a hoodscoop..but couldnt afford one anymore...but we cant hate on him for having a miata with a 13b...at least thats all the next owner is gna put a hoodscooper

[DecoyOctopus]

holy **** taht is nice

[Elbow]

i'm sure it gets some air...

[OTG Signs]

Why would you knowingly swap a ****ty motor INTO a car?

[Elbow]

^Because it's only ****ty to those who don't know how to work on them ;)

[RUFFIAN]

^Because it's only ****ty to those who don't know how to work on them ;)Very true:cheers:

[redrumracer]

^Because it's only ****ty to those who don't know how to maintain them ;)
fixed :D

but damnit that still doesnt answer the stupid intercooler placement

[Tree]

It looks like there is a vent on the left side of the hood and there are also air direction plates on either side of the engine.

[DecoyOctopus]

how is a rotary motor ****ty???

[tdurr]

its just the T2's IC set up. all turbo fc's came with the Ic on the top and they had hood scoops too. he just hasent put a scoop on his hood.
T-durr

[87 Turbo II]

its just the T2's IC set up. all turbo fc's came with the Ic on the top and they had hood scoops too. he just hasent put a scoop on his hood.
T-durr
yeah, we were aware up to that point. what most people(all people) who swap a TII block into first gens do is get a FMIC instead, we're wondering why this guy who put an awesome engine and paid for the swap, didn't go all the way and got lazy with the IC.

At LOLABOX, STFU, the rotary engine is not $hitty, it's just different, and the fact that you don't understand it is great, it keeps idiots from buying and messing up these cars(scares em away). And if dumb owners DO buy one, the car commits suicide. It's the perfect car.

[Boosted FC]

yeah, we were aware up to that point. what most people(all people) who swap a TII block into first gens do is get a FMIC instead, we're wondering why this guy who put an awesome engine and paid for the swap, didn't go all the way and got lazy with the IC.

At LOLABOX, STFU, the rotary engine is not $hitty, it's just different, and the fact that you don't understand it is great, it keeps idiots from buying and messing up these cars(scares em away). And if dumb owners DO buy one, the car commits suicide. It's the perfect car.

:lmfao::lmfao: Well put.

[OTG Signs]

At LOLABOX, STFU, the rotary engine is not $hitty, it's just different, and the fact that you don't understand it is great, it keeps idiots from buying and messing up these cars(scares em away). And if dumb owners DO buy one, the car commits suicide. It's the perfect car.

It doesn't really do anything well, other than gulp gas. :lmfao:

[OTG Signs]

how is a rotary motor ****ty???

Have you ever known someone with one longer than ~50k miles?

[OTG Signs]

^Because it's only ****ty to those who don't know how to work on them ;)

So, 99% of shops that exist?

[redrumracer]

Why would you knowingly swap a ****ty motor INTO a car?
its not a shitty motor as long as you know how to maintain it, now the better question is why would someone buy a brick on wheels with an underpowered motor? thats the question.

[OTG Signs]

its not a shitty motor as long as you know how to maintain it, now the better question is why would someone buy a brick on wheels with an underpowered motor? thats the question.

Because it does exactly what I need it to and still has more power (stock) than your "sports" car.

[redrumracer]

Because it does exactly what I need it to and still has more power (stock) than your "sports" car.
yea it comes in with an outstanding 22 more hp, WHILE being .6 liters bigger and 1000 lbs heavier than my sports car. not to mention my car is more than capable of out handling yours stock or mod for mod, or even with you having some mods and mine stock.

[Elbow]

Lolabox you are for sure one of the not so smart people on here, I know MANY rotary motors with WELL over 50k, many NA rotary engines that go crazy fast, you dont look around much do you?

[Elbow]

So, 99% of shops that exist?

A well rounded shop will not agree with you.

[Master Shake]

back to topic.
i wanted to do this for a while but then realization of gas prices going up, the amount of money to do it, and the lifetime of maintaining it caused me to back out. props to the guy who did it and then a smack to him for not putting a front mount.

[wOZrally]

LOLABOX just STFO!

you digging yourself a hole...

[Bruce Leroy]

no front mount = sleeper status.... especially with that gay color.

[Master Shake]

no front mount = sleeper status.... especially with that gay color.but that top mount is serving absolutely no purpose whatsoever. he might be better off running just a pipe from the turbo straight to the intake.
he could have went with an a/w IC, for a sleeper.

[redrumracer]

no front mount = sleeper status.... especially with that gay color.
a v mount could achieve that also and be effective

[Kaiser]

Because it does exactly what I need it to and still has more power (stock) than your "sports" car.


Turbo II FC, stock crank: 189hp.
Honda Element K24A4, stock crank: 160hp.
...
(Stock Miata 1.6l Engine, stock crank: 120hp.)

Stock NA series Miata Curb Weight: 2100lb.
Stock Honda Element Curb Weight: 3433lb.

FC Swap Power to Weight: 11.1:1 lb:hp
Element Power to Weight: 21.45:1 lb:hp
NA Miata Power to Weight: 17.5:1 lb:hp

Numbers, taken purely out of context, are irrelevant to an intellectual discussion of facts. I have even neglected to mention the significant difference in center-of-mass between the Miata and the Element. Combined with the greater overall mass this would mean that the Element would be incapable of even beating the stock miata and it's significantly lower torque curve in an autocross match-up, due to the much lower turning speed required by that. The Miata is also nearly perfectly balanced, almost 50/50, while the element suffers from a common honda nose-heavy syndrome.

How exactly, and in what way, is your car significantly more powerful than even the most basic stock miata? Yes, your 2.4l engine does produce more horsepower than the Miata does, however the 4 extra lb:hp on your element means that the Miata still has a power advantage you would have a difficult time beating. You talk a lot, but you still drive an ugly crossover.


On the topic of the top-mount: Maybe he had an aftermarket hood that he sold prior to selling the car itself that included a functional roof scoop? That's the only reason I can think of for having a top-mount Rotor swap.

[Me86Rob]

Have you ever known someone with one longer than ~50k miles?
yea actually my mom had an 83 with 180K on the original motor

[David88vert]

I have had quite a few rotarys of all 3 generations with well over 50K. My FD was the worst with 105K on the first motor, and over 100K and still going on the second. UI have had 3 1st gens with well over 200K on them, including 1 that had 285K on it with no major problems. How many Elements have you seen over 150K so far?
As for Honda motors - a friend of mine on this forum has gone through multiple motors in his Civic DX before hitting 100K. They die easily.

[kfzemx3]

Have you ever known someone with one longer than ~50k miles?


Have a FD in my garage, it died at 76,242 So yep I know someone :)

[qwick]

Have you ever known someone with one longer than ~50k miles?

My brothers has 175k on it and still runs strong. Any car will crap out on you if you dont keep good maint. on it, regardless of make, model, or type of motor.

[green91]

I have had quite a few rotarys of all 3 generations with well over 50K. My FD was the worst with 105K on the first motor, and over 100K and still going on the second. UI have had 3 1st gens with well over 200K on them, including 1 that had 285K on it with no major problems. How many Elements have you seen over 150K so far?
As for Honda motors - a friend of mine on this forum has gone through multiple motors in his Civic DX before hitting 100K. They die easily.

Im going to sound like a fanboy for this but saying honda motors die easily is pretty ignorant and false. The only excuse for them dying is lack of maintenance or people not knowing how to drive.

The rotary on the other hand is flawed by design in that the apex seals simply don't provide reliable service in a majority of the motors, especially when driven hard. Sure there are some with high miles but are typically owned by the same people that put 250k on a camry too, they baby them. When driven consistently in higher RPMs, don't count on the rotary to provide high-mileage service.

[OneSlow5pt0]

iirc,u should drive a rotary hard sometimes so carbon doesnt build up.............rotary are reliable,only one that ive ever seen that gives loads of trouble is the 13b-rew......just keep them oiled and u will be ok

[David88vert]

Im going to sound like a fanboy for this but saying honda motors die easily is pretty ignorant and false. The only excuse for them dying is lack of maintenance or people not knowing how to drive.

The rotary on the other hand is flawed by design in that the apex seals simply don't provide reliable service in a majority of the motors, especially when driven hard. Sure there are some with high miles but are typically owned by the same people that put 250k on a camry too, they baby them. When driven consistently in higher RPMs, don't count on the rotary to provide high-mileage service.

My point wasn't that Honda's die easily. It's that any motor type can have the same issues. I've seen plenty of Honda's die, but I'm not saying that it is a flawed design.

If you truely understand rotarys, then you know that they are not even close to a "flawed design". They perform perfectly for a very long time IF you know how they work, and what they need. I have owned many RX7s over the years, and have had only 1 motor die on me - and that was my fault for overheating it. It still ran fine, raced that day, made it to the quarterfinals, and drove home from Moroso - while warped. I have had numerous old 7s with over 200K on them - with no issues.

Rotarys need to see redline. If you baby them, they will blow. They were designed to be run hard. Rotarys have an oil injection system, that must be maintained. They shoot more oil into the engine as the throttle is applied farther. Based on your earlier comments, I can see that you do not understand how the system works, and should not have a rotary. You would kill it from driving it like grandma. They need to be revved out and run at higher rpms than most piston motors are happy with. That said, you still have to managed the heat of the engine.

[green91]

A well rounded engine shouldn't have to be beaten on to be reliable.. im sure none of us are easy on our cars but to say you've gotta wind a rotary out so that it gets a sufficient amount of oil seems liked a flawed design by what you say. I understand rotary concept, I've seen a few apart but haven't rebuilt any myself. So the minuscule details that only a seasoned rotary technician would know i don't. But by your own description, you've realistically admitted a downfall in the design.

[OneSlow5pt0]

A well rounded engine shouldn't have to be beaten on to be reliable.. im sure none of us are easy on our cars but to say you've gotta wind a rotary out so that it gets a sufficient amount of oil seems liked a flawed design by what you say. I understand rotary concept, I've seen a few apart but haven't rebuilt any myself. So the minuscule details that only a seasoned rotary technician would know i don't. But by your own description, you've realistically admitted a downfall in the design.

thier not flawed,just a different way of doing everything.........its almost like saying GM's LSx is flawed because everyone else is using DOHC V8s,but some how with thier cavemen pushrod its one of the best engines in the world

and a Rotary engine is way more simple than a piston engine

[green91]

As far as moving parts, timing components, etc yea they are a great design and its neat how they get the power out of a smaller displacement engine doing so. But they do have their faults also. Ive been in several newer rx8 that have nearly no compression with low miles. Look at how many FD and FC have had an engine replaced by 100k.. hell even mazda has extended warranties on the renesis just to keep customers happy since the motors are failing.

[David88vert]

A well rounded engine shouldn't have to be beaten on to be reliable.. im sure none of us are easy on our cars but to say you've gotta wind a rotary out so that it gets a sufficient amount of oil seems liked a flawed design by what you say. I understand rotary concept, I've seen a few apart but haven't rebuilt any myself. So the minuscule details that only a seasoned rotary technician would know i don't. But by your own description, you've realistically admitted a downfall in the design.

The turbocharged engine was designed to be run as a high performance car - not a grocery getter. If you use the engine the way it was designed to be used, it lasts a long time. If you do not, it will not get what it needs, and will wear out quickly. That's true for any engine. Rotarys were designed to be revved high, not babied. That is not a design flaw.
Run a stock B16 at 8K for 1 hr straight and watch it blow up. Is that a design flaw? No, it is improper usage.
Run a 13b-rew at 1500 rpm for 4 hrs straight and watch it blow up. Is that a design flaw? Again no, it is improper usage.

[David88vert]

As far as moving parts, timing components, etc yea they are a great design and its neat how they get the power out of a smaller displacement engine doing so. But they do have their faults also. Ive been in several newer rx8 that have nearly no compression with low miles. Look at how many FD and FC have had an engine replaced by 100k.. hell even mazda has extended warranties on the renesis just to keep customers happy since the motors are failing.

The Renesis did have a flooding problem. You have to warm them up fully when you crank them. Never start them up, then just turn them off. Once in a while, they will flood if you do that.

The FD's suffered from only 2 issues - not enough cooling, and not enough oiling. Again, they needed to be run harder, and the cooling system (oil and coolant) was not adequate for non-wot applications.

[OneSlow5pt0]

The Renesis did have a flooding problem. You have to warm them up fully when you crank them. Never start them up, then just turn them off. Once in a while, they will flood if you do that.

The FD's suffered from only 2 issues - not enough cooling, and not enough oiling. Again, they needed to be run harder, and the cooling system (oil and coolant) was not adequate for non-wot applications.

thought that was true of all Rotary to let them warm up,before driving hard or cutting it off....i rememeber cutting my FC off to soon and it flooded

[DecoyOctopus]

my freind had a non turbo 87 fc with 210k dead ass.
Have you ever known someone with one longer than ~50k miles?

[4TEG]

my freind had a non turbo 87 fc with 210k dead ass.
:goodjob: repped

[Elbow]

I have had quite a few rotarys of all 3 generations with well over 50K. My FD was the worst with 105K on the first motor, and over 100K and still going on the second. UI have had 3 1st gens with well over 200K on them, including 1 that had 285K on it with no major problems. How many Elements have you seen over 150K so far?
As for Honda motors - a friend of mine on this forum has gone through multiple motors in his Civic DX before hitting 100K. They die easily.

Ok NOW THAT was dumb. Honda motors dont die easily or your friend is a complete dumb ass. My CRX had over 350k on it and ran strong as HELL. Every Honda I owned except one was over 200k. And all NEVER a problem. I drained oil out one and ran it DRY, NEVER BLEW. You can fill them up with WATER and they run.

[redrumracer]

Ok NOW THAT was dumb. Honda motors dont die easily or your friend is a complete dumb ass. My CRX had over 350k on it and ran strong as HELL. Every Honda I owned except one was over 200k. And all NEVER a problem. I drained oil out one and ran it DRY, NEVER BLEW. You can fill them up with WATER and they run.
you can do that with any motor and it will run, eventually they will blow up or seize up. they are all made out of the same material.

[DecoyOctopus]

the rx8 motor is the renesis and it dosent have a flooding problem like the fc fd and fb
The Renesis did have a flooding problem. You have to warm them up fully when you crank them. Never start them up, then just turn them off. Once in a while, they will flood if you do that.

The FD's suffered from only 2 issues - not enough cooling, and not enough oiling. Again, they needed to be run harder, and the cooling system (oil and coolant) was not adequate for non-wot applications.

[Elbow]

you can do that with any motor and it will run, eventually they will blow up or seize up. they are all made out of the same material.

Really? It ran for days, I ran my Civic at Road Atlanta with basically no oil. I ran that car for weeks dry of oil. Do it and prove me wrong :goodjob:

[Kalifornia087]

My current FC has 230k miles on it, and the last two years the previous owner (friend of mine) has done nothing buy drag/drift in it. I'll be drifting/autocrossing it as well.
I have owned several FC's, one n/a car had 270k on it and was still running. One was a Turbo II And it had about 165k and still ran just fine.
I also have a CRX that i daily that has 308k miles, and it runs awesome.

It's all in how you drive it/maintain it. I hate when people down a car just because they listen to stereotypes.

[redrumracer]

Really? It ran for days, I ran my Civic at Road Atlanta with basically no oil. I ran that car for weeks dry of oil. Do it and prove me wrong :goodjob:
do it and have proof of it and prove yourself right :goodjob:

[Bruce Leroy]

do it and have proof of it and prove yourself right :goodjob:
:stupid:

[David88vert]

thought that was true of all Rotary to let them warm up,before driving hard or cutting it off....i rememeber cutting my FC off to soon and it flooded
Yes.



the rx8 motor is the renesis and it dosent have a flooding problem like the fc fd and fb

Actually, the 2004 did. All of them pretty much have that issue. Simple solution - warm them up properly.


Really? It ran for days, I ran my Civic at Road Atlanta with basically no oil. I ran that car for weeks dry of oil. Do it and prove me wrong :goodjob:
You don't seem to understand how motors work. I know of a Civic run without oil. It was shot in a few minutes - not hours, days, or weeks. Oil lubricates and cools the motor. It is even more important than coolant to an engine. Even a Dodge 225 can't run long without oil - about 30 minutes to an hour depending on load. So no, I don't believe you for a second that you were running RA without oil.

[GSRteg®]

Hmmmm interesting