Sudden extreme power loss - B16A3 - Reps for help!

[osnap]

Vehicle: 1994 Honda del Sol VTEC (B16A3, with LS trans)

Alright guys, hopefully someone can yield some insight as to what the hell is going on here. First off, I should mention that I've had a distributor problem for a month or two - idle is kinda wacky and every once in a while i get CEL 9 (Cylinder sensor). I have a replacement cat, but I just haven't had the time to install it yet. I have no idea if this is related, but thought I'd mention it.

Anyways, this afternoon around 11 I headed out. Being so hot out, my motor was pretty warm, and had no problem going through the gears and hitting VTEC normally all the way through the power band. About 5 miles from my house, I'm cruising in 3rd at relatively high RPMs (but nothing crazy), and I downshifted to 2nd to pass a car. Should have still been perfectly within safe revving range. BUT, the instant I finished shifting to 2nd, it felt like the motor just completely crapped out.

From that second on, I had like NO power or throttle response, and the motor struggled pretty bad getting past 4,000 RPM. It was as if someone had flipped a switch, because it was so sudden and instantaneous. It sounds like its redlining and really pushing when I get to 4,000 and I cant get past 4,500 pretty much at all. In neutral, I can slooowly rev it up to around 5, but the motor does NOT sound like it wants to. Through third gear, I can only hit around 35mph.

I pull over right away and pop the hood... Fluids look relatively normal (though my oil is black and certainly needs to be changed). I disconnected the battery, unplugged the harnesses to the VTEC solenoid, distributor, MAP sensor, etc (and obviously plugged em back in). I checked all my spark plugs and they look fine. I pulled the fuse to reset the ECU. Pretty much did everything I could think of, and nothing helped.

I noticed the motor was running really hot for only having driven 5 miles, and not even all that spirited-ly. SOOOO I sat there for what felt like forever, had a friend pick me up to get lunch, and came back about 45 minutes later after the motor had some time to cool down. Same problem.

I had to run an errand that was gonna take me several hours, so I left the car in the parking lot and headed out in my buddy's truck. 5 or 6 hours, after a nice cool thunderstorm, I came back and cranked the car up again. Same issue, only this time it smelled like it was running a little rich cause I got a little whiff of fuel. Also, it seemed like the "redline" was closer to around 3,600 than 4,000, and I noticed that my idle was pretty low (400-500 RPM... but this could be the dizzy problem acting up). I drove home carefully with my buddy behind me, and parked my car, where its still sitting.

[ALSO - this actually happened to me once before, right after changing my oil. This was about 6 months ago. BUT after I had turned the car off for a few hours, I tried again and it was perfectly normal all of the sudden.]

NOW then, these are the only possibilities I've been able to think of...

1. Distributor - Since I've been having issues for some time, I figured this could theoretically be the cause. I wouldn't be surprised if the problem was electrical because it was so sudden.

2. MAP sensor - Because of an accident I had a number of months ago, my intake is pretty busted up, and is probably sucking in some relatively dirty air, so I wouldn't be terribly surprised if the MAP somehow got clogged.

3. Catalytic converter - Just seems like it might make sense that the cat might be clogged. Only problem is that it was so sudden, and its not like I was losing power over time. Maybe one of the plates inside somehow came loose? Its a relatively cheap cat but I just had it welded on at G&S roughly 6 months ago, so its pretty new.

4. Clutch? I have perfect pedal pressure and have no problems engaging the clutch or changing gears, but it just seemed like a possibility.

Honestly I'm pretty baffled as to what the hell is going on here... Can anybody give me some help? +reps if you're the type who cares about em... lol

[Humphrizzle]

Hmmm..

My car was acting the same way as this when I washed my engine bay and had water in my spark plug holes. It was running in "safe mode" and would run sluggishly throughout every gear and the CEL would stay on. I got an air compressor and got all the water out and reset the computer and ran perfectly...

[T34me]

sounds like somthing that would happen with bad gas(water in tank), but i guess because it was sudden that dosent sound right. Also what you said about your intake, obviously vaccum problems can cause a major issue, that might be worth checking out as well, a possible big leak somewhere?

[CB7tuner]

if you've been suspecting your cat is going bad then that is probobly the culprit (bad cat). I had the same problem about a year ago i went to work the car was driving fine but when i got off i started to drive and the motor felt like i had ZERO power i could floor it and maybe reach 40 mph in like a minute LOL. Get a friend to rev your car and see if it sounds any different and put your hand near your exhaust to see if it feels like theres barely any exhaust coming out as well, and look for black residue around your muffler cutout. Hope that helps

[Vteckidd]

check your timing belt when you down shifted it prob jumped a tooth. That would explan the low idle and loss in power

[redrumracer]

check your timing belt when you down shifted it prob jumped a tooth. That would explan the low idle and loss in power
beat me to it, a sudden change like that would have a good probability that this happened.

[Barefoot]

1. Distributor - Since I've been having issues for some time, I figured this could theoretically be the cause. I wouldn't be surprised if the problem was electrical because it was so sudden.

2. MAP sensor - Because of an accident I had a number of months ago, my intake is pretty busted up, and is probably sucking in some relatively dirty air, so I wouldn't be terribly surprised if the MAP somehow got clogged.

3. Catalytic converter - Just seems like it might make sense that the cat might be clogged. Only problem is that it was so sudden, and its not like I was losing power over time. Maybe one of the plates inside somehow came loose? Its a relatively cheap cat but I just had it welded on at G&S roughly 6 months ago, so its pretty new.

4. Clutch? I have perfect pedal pressure and have no problems engaging the clutch or changing gears, but it just seemed like a possibility.

Honestly I'm pretty baffled as to what the hell is going on here... Can anybody give me some help? +reps if you're the type who cares about em... lolonly things i can think of at the current moment is to test the components u suspect.

1. dizzy try swapping it out with a known working 1
2. map sensor

Manifold pressure Voltage specifications*
5 in Hg (125 mm Hg) 2.5 Volts
10 in Hg (250 mm Hg) 2.0 Volts
15 in Hg (375 mm Hg) 1.5 Volts
20 in Hg (500 mm Hg) 1.0 Volts
25 in Hg (625 mm Hg) 0.5 Volts
* Measured at Engine Control Module (ECM) terminals D17 (+) and D21 (-).


best to test with a scanner easy and faster.

3. look at the cat and see if its getting red hot also the exhuast manifold.

4. dont think its the clutch.


ill think about it more in the morning when im fresh.


check your timing belt when you down shifted it prob jumped a tooth. That would explan the low idle and loss in power
thats possible check into that also.

[slostang]

OSNAP!!! :( :( :(

[osnap]

wow, i left for a long dinner and come back to find that you guys have really come through! :goodjob:

I'll try and sort through your suggestions tomorrow and see if i can find the culprit.

Anybody else reading, feel free to keep some suggestions coming.

[CB7tuner]

not a problem man , it could be anyone of the problems listed above but start with your cheapest option which i beleive is replacing the cat if you already have a replacement like you said, i think that should work for you (at least i hope it does) because it sounds almost identical to my problem. :goodjob: :goodjob: :goodjob:

[osnap]

yeah, im gonna look at timing and the cat first. not only are they the cheapest approaches, they also seem like the most probable culprits. :goodjob:

[Barefoot]

:goodjob::goodjob::goodjob::goodjob:
yeah, im gonna look at timing and the cat first. not only are they the cheapest approaches, they also seem like the most probable culprits. :goodjob:

[jtaylor48]

yeah the timing sounds like the most logical thing to me but if you are already riding in a pretty high rpm why downshift?

[TEG90]

maybe the igniter in ur dizzy? try switchin that cat first. and could be vacuum leak check for leaks around throttle body gasket and intake manifold gasket. also diconnect ur battery and reset ecu. also my da did that once and it was cause there was pressure and air in coolant system try the beeder valve and see, just a thought.

[1SOL2NV]

PART IT OUT lol .. problem solved ... j/k thats wierd man .. hope it works out .. but you can always take my suggestion LMFAO ... g/l man

[Humphrizzle]

Hmmm..

My car was acting the same way as this when I washed my engine bay and had water in my spark plug holes. It was running in "safe mode" and would run sluggishly throughout every gear and the CEL would stay on. I got an air compressor and got all the water out and reset the computer and ran perfectly...

I told this story just to point out that it was in "safe mode" idk if there's any significance.

[osnap]

well i checked everything out... replaced the dizzy, checked the timing (ignition timing was off 6 degrees, fixed that), changed the oil, checked all my sensors, checked the cat, etc.... couldnt figure it out.

but finally i got it figured out, and im shocked at what the problem was... my cone filter got pretty fukked up in my accident a while back, so i threw on a spare sh!tty APC one my buddy had laying around... it had a big circular metal cap on the end that was somehow sucked in and was blocking the IM.... motor was starved for air.

Weird. Car's back on the road though! lol :goodjob:

[Dirty Octopus™]

well i checked everything out... replaced the dizzy, checked the timing (ignition timing was off 6 degrees, fixed that), changed the oil, checked all my sensors, checked the cat, etc.... couldnt figure it out.

but finally i got it figured out, and im shocked at what the problem was... my cone filter got pretty fukked up in my accident a while back, so i threw on a spare sh!tty APC one my buddy had laying around... it had a big circular metal cap on the end that was somehow sucked in and was blocking the IM.... motor was starved for air.

Weird. Car's back on the road though! lol :goodjob:not as weird as you'd think!
this has either happened to me or thecoolcutter once in our lives :doh:

hey! how's the restoration coming along?

[CB7tuner]

OSNAP that's funny , glad to hear everythings good

[1SOL2NV]

damnit .... lol pretty soon imma feel like plankton off spongebob ..... always tryin to get you to part this bish lmfao !!! ... glad to hear er thing's ok tho .!

[jtaylor48]

Damn man that sucks but at least you know the issue. Just another instance proving of how bad APC is

[osnap]

...well now that ive had time to drive it, im noticing that its running a bit weaker than normal... and sometimes VTEC will initiate fine at 5500, but suddenly drops off at 6000. Its a drastic difference even in just how loud the sound is. 2nd through 5th feel kinda weak at times, but sometimes they're fine... when they ARE weak, VTEC is really weak too. Its a bit weird. I mean its WAAAAY better now than before obviously, it just feels like somethings not quite right.

Its kinda hard to describe cause its so hit-or-miss and so... vague.

[Dirty Octopus™]

id take it to a shop.
try getting vteckidd to look at it. or BTEC
or take it to Mainstream :(

[jtaylor48]

try reseting your ecu and stuff now. This might be the safe mode that ^^^ was talking about. Your sensors all adapt to the amount and temperature of air flow and this could be something.

Maybe your timing was advanced for your cams and when you moved it it became sluggish.

What kinda filter did you put on it?

[VickNotic]

i'm thinking either timing jumped.. your ignitor went out, clogged cat convertor,

[Mr. Clean]

damnit man you just cant catch a break. this thing sounds like my first sol. i had 12983745 problems with that thing and right when i was one bolt away from fixing it... wreckage.

so you've already hit rock bottom... it can only get better. but yeah i dont know what the "safe mode" does but i've heard about it when your oil gets really low or whenever your car thinks you need to do something haha.

well good luck with everything and lemme know how it goes there sir.

[1SOL2NV]

^ WOW justin lol .... Cars For Dummies By john : LOL ... limp mode is like a run flat tire if something is wrong with a vehicle its a program in the ecu to "limp" not run at full potential until you can get it to a shop or somewhere to fix it ... lesson learned .. lol !!!!!!!

[preferredduck]

change your oil, only time my vtec cuts out is low oil, or very dirty oil. had it happen to my old si and i said osnap!!!

[osnap]

oil is fresh, but the cars in the body shop atm, so ill look into it around a week from now.