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View Full Version : Credit card fees: Some gas stations say 'no more'



Vteckidd
06-20-2008, 10:07 AM
CHARLESTON, W.Va. - When gas station manager Roger Randolph realized it was costing him money each time someone filled up with $4-a-gallon gas, he hung a sign on his pumps: "No more credit cards."

He may be the first in West Virginia to ban plastic, but gas station operators nationwide are reporting similar woes as higher prices translate into higher credit card fees the managers must pay, squeezing profits at the pump.

"The more they buy, the more we lose," said Randolph, who manages Mr. Ed's Chevron in St. Albans. "Gas prices go up, and our profits go down."

His complaints target the so-called interchange fee — a percentage of the sale price paid to credit card companies on every transaction. The percentage is fixed — usually at just under 2 percent — but the dollar amount of the fee rises with the price of the goods or services.

As gas tops $4 a gallon, that pushes fees toward 10 cents a gallon. Now stations, which typically mark up gasoline by 11 to 12 cents a gallon, are seeing profits shrink or even reverse.

In a good month, Randolph's small operation would yield a $60 profit on gasoline sales. But that's been buried as soaring prices forced the station to pay about $500 a month in interchange fees.

"At these prices, people aren't making any money," said Jeff Lenard, spokesman for the Alexandria, Va.-based National Association of Convenience Stores. "It's brutal."

Lenard's group reports convenience stores paid roughly $7.6 billion in credit card fees last year, while making $3.4 billion in profits.

The way interchange fees are structured has long annoyed retailers, prompting calls for relief.

Legislation pending in the U.S. House and Senate would allow merchants to bargain collectively with major credit and debit card companies.

The National Retail Federation says gas prices point to the unfairness of the system: Gas stations are paying more in interchange fees because the price of gas has gone up, while the cost of processing credit or debit cards remains the same.

"We have always contended that it doesn't cost Visa and MasterCard any more to process a $1,000 transaction than it does a $100 transaction," said J. Craig Shearman, vice president of government affairs at the retail federation.

The credit card companies say fees are just part of the cost of doing business.

MasterCard has capped interchange fees for gas purchases of $50 or more, said company spokeswoman Sharon Gamsin.

Accepting MasterCard also gives gas stations "increased sales, greater security and convenience, lower labor costs, and speed for their customers at the pump," Gamsin said in an e-mail to The Associated Press.

Visa argues that the fees are offset "by the tangible benefits to stations and their customers, such as the ability to pay at the pump," the company said in a statement to the AP.

Absent congressional action, gas stations are seeking other relief, including discounts to customers who pay in cash.

Shipley Energy, which owns 23 Tom's Convenience stores in Pennsylvania, has partnered with a new credit card company, Revolution, which charges smaller interchange fees.

Bob Astor, wholesale fuels business manager for Shipley, said those savings get passed on to customers as cheaper prices at the pump. Customers who pay with the card get an automatic 10 cent discount.

Gas stations in South Carolina, Georgia, Maryland, New Jersey and Arizona are among those offering cash customers a discount, with savings from four cents to 10 cents per gallon.

The Connecticut General Assembly recently passed legislation to make it easier for stations to offer discounts for cash purchases, bidding to cut consumer prices by 10 to 12 cents on average.

Discounts for cash customers may not, however, be the stations' salvation.

The National Association of Convenience Stores reports about two thirds of transactions at gas stations were with credit or debit cards in 2007, a figure expected to rise this year.

"The problem with cash discounts is, if people don't have the cash or don't want to spend the cash, you've inconvenienced them," Lenard said.

The experiment at Mr. Ed's Chevron, though, has paid off so far.

The station has been in business for 44 years and the ban on plastic hasn't scared many people off, Randolph said.

"We've got generations of customers who come here," he said. "Most of them have accepted it."

Interesting, VIsa stock start going down now?

Ran
06-20-2008, 10:31 AM
F*ck that. I use my Visa everytime I fill up.

IndianStig
06-20-2008, 05:27 PM
QT FTW

OTG Signs
06-20-2008, 05:32 PM
I'll just use my debit card since it's safer than carrying cash.

IndianStig
06-20-2008, 05:39 PM
Same charges will apply with your debit card...at most gas stations.


Most places will not take debit cards w/out the visa/mc logo and they get charged a transaction fee.

Slow Motion
06-20-2008, 06:15 PM
The price of oil is going up so if you want to save 10 cents at the pump when gas hits 4.50 a gallon lets see who continues to pay with the card. You will go to the atm and take out the gas money and pay with cash.

Dr.G35
06-20-2008, 07:24 PM
AMEX FTW!

WhiteAccord
06-20-2008, 07:27 PM
QT FTW!!! X2

Slow Motion
06-20-2008, 07:48 PM
Siphoning gas ftw....

Vteckidd
06-20-2008, 08:01 PM
AMEX FTW!
You can bet if they are talking about MC and Visa being removed, AMEX ,Capitol One, Discover is already long gone lol.

Amex, Capitol One, Discover charge almost double to sometimes triple the fees MC and Visa charge.

Most gas stations dont take those cards anyway

Dr.G35
06-20-2008, 10:01 PM
but dont they charge differently then visa. like not as much?

Vteckidd
06-20-2008, 10:02 PM
no they chareg WAY more to merchants.

Thats why they have all those rewards for their members

IndianStig
06-21-2008, 06:37 PM
Discover card FTW.


Get the cashback rewards card. Go to walmart, buy some gum and get $80 cash back. Then drive to your gas station of choice, put in $80 in fuel (**** gas prices) and fill up your gas. Problem solved. I believe Discover is the only card to have cashback rewards like that at Walmart, FTW.

Got Milk?
06-21-2008, 08:44 PM
QT FTW

Echonova
06-22-2008, 01:02 PM
I'll just use my debit card since it's safer than carrying cash.Errrrrr.... Think again chief.

ironchef
06-22-2008, 01:55 PM
I get 3% cash back on all gas purchases, I'm not going to stop using my Visa.

Kaiser
06-22-2008, 06:16 PM
Let gas stations stop accepting credit. Won't affect me in the slightest. I don't do business with anybody but QT any more, tired of trashy, half-functional, dimly lit, hardly secured pumps with grimy insides and nasty bathrooms. I like feeling welcome when I'm about to drop $50 to fill my tank up and it doesn't hurt that QT's offering a better experience for identical product at identical or lower prices. If QT stops accepting credit, then I'll get a QT gas card and pay my gas card bill with my debit card. Doesn't phase ME in the slightest.

Of note though is the idea that gas stations only mark up gas 10-12 cents. Are they seriously expecting anyone with a firm grasp on the economics of sales to believe that for more than a minute? A 5-8% markup over cost of delivery would be an astoundingly low markup right for a primary-sales product, but not unheard of. However 12 cents at $4.00 a gallon makes up just under a 3% markup for the product. Even figuring sales of other items at gas stations, how are operating cost budgets met with a 3% markup? If that's true, then I have to also ask why gas prices have literally skyrocketed over the past several years and suddenly somehow stopped at $4 a gallon if there's so little markup in the gas? Shouldn't the price of gas be significantly higher considering the amount of increase in the costs to produce it? Something somewhere stinks when I'm being told it costs $4 to produce a $4 gallon of gas and yet the price of gas has miraculously stabilized at the exact point where people refused to pay for it any more, when predictions were saying "We'll have $5 a gallon by July."

It looks distinctly like what happens when a retailer slowly ratchets up the cost of a good after realizing that the market's price was lower than the point where a consumer is no longer willing to pay for the good and seeks substitutes. Especially when you consider that oil has traditionally acted as a reverse-bend supply curve. Saudi Arabia is right, it's not the quantity of oil that's causing high prices for gas in America.


Edit: I should add that I am intensely excited by the prospect of gas prices closer to those found in Europe in America, as it means an end to the absurdly large and increasingly deadly SUVs so many people seem to be fascinated with. If just half of them on the road right now were replaced with sedans, wagons, or minivans, the road would be such a better place.

ironchef
06-22-2008, 09:59 PM
Gas stations operate on the principle that they'll generally either break even or lose money on gas sales, how their profits lie within their concessions inside. Same principle as movie theaters, they don't necessarily make money off the tickets, but they do make it off the $9,000 small popcorn. Hence the ridiculous food prices @ theaters.

Kaiser
06-23-2008, 12:14 AM
Gas stations operate on the principle that they'll generally either break even or lose money on gas sales, how their profits lie within their concessions inside. Same principle as movie theaters, they don't necessarily make money off the tickets, but they do make it off the $9,000 small popcorn. Hence the ridiculous food prices @ theaters.

And I concede that point. However when you are literally selling gas at what looks to be a $.15 loss for every gallon, when prices are at an all time record high (Even adjusted for inflation) then how are any of these gas stations open at all? This is pretty much the same thing as when we get told by the Oil companies "Oh, Profits are up...but Profit Margins are way way down, and profit margins are what's important! Margins!" It's a way to try and obscure the facts of the situation. If the first year you spend $100 to make $120, and the second year you spend $1000 to make $1100, which makes you more money? Oil companies would tell you that the year in which you had the $20 of profit is better because it represents better profit margins. Common sense tells you that the economies of scales in this situation dictate that even the smallest gain OR loss would be incredibly critical. If gas stations need to up their price $.04 a gallon to make a profit, they would up their price $.04 a gallon. If a gas station sells 100 tanks of gas an hour...and each fill-up averages 12 gallons, that's 14400 gallons of gas per 12 hour day. At just a ONE CENT LOSS, that is roughly $50,000 of loss per year per gas station. Every single cent more loss multiplies that. My estimate of the amount of gas sold is probably pretty low, too. If gas stations aren't making any money off of the stuff (Which is ~not~ what I hear from the two independent gas station owners I know personally) then somebody sure as hell is, sortof.

The real answer is that the dollar has depreciated so much that the amount of dollars that you're making now off of it are roughly the same amount of currency value as before, but american wages have not moved in the same direction. The massive drop in the value of american currency was in many ways fallout from the massive credit hand-out of the past five years, and the credit crash is a result of the lack of increased wages but increased prices of the market. We can't be on top forever, and if people keep their priorities the same as they are right now then our time on top might be sooner than we're comfortable with.

PS: Movie theaters have an absurdly low operating cost, the problem is that the movie theaters insist on not only charging the theater to get the movie itself, but then demand a portion of the ticket sales on top of that. The reason movie theaters can't make money off ticket sales isn't because of the movie theater, it's because of the production studios and the executives who make hollywood actors look positively poor.

jfman
06-23-2008, 04:24 AM
PS: Movie theaters have an absurdly low operating cost, the problem is that the movie theaters insist on not only charging the theater to get the movie itself, but then demand a portion of the ticket sales on top of that. The reason movie theaters can't make money off ticket sales isn't because of the movie theater, it's because of the production studios and the executives who make hollywood actors look positively poor.


Build and run a movie theater , then tell me they have an "absurdly low operating cost" Get a clue.