EJ25RUN
06-19-2008, 12:12 AM
Let me just go over some things before i start.
It's pretty apparent now that the holy Nurburgring lap time is the ultimate test of a car. Cars like the GTR are now boasting about its amazing numbers but i feel like there are too many variables to really see that number as a final means to judge a car. I think that allot of people just don't really understand what goes into putting together a Nurburgring lap. That's why i wanted to write this.
So let me begin.
I read an excellent article from this month's Excellence magazine. It was an interview with Walter Rohrl, former World Rally Champion and current head Porsche test driver. Now Walter has to be one of the most gifted drivers of our time and he's been lapping the Ring for the past 40 years. So I'm sure he knows what he's talking about whenever he is describing how a car feels. He is the man that set the 7:32 second lap in the 997 GT2, the 7:49 in a 997 Turbo, and the 7:28 in the Carrera GT.
One thing to consider about all those cars it that they used a standard 6 speed transmission instead of the lightning fast paddle shift unit. But the biggest reasons for these laps being what they were is Walter's knowledge of the track and luck.
Yes, Luck. When Walter did the 7:32 sec lap in the GT2, he almost hit a car coming out of Tiergarten which is the left hander after the 2km straight.
We know that the Nurburgring is open to the public on most days of the week and have seen cars being passed on other record attempts at the track. Walter has told Porsche that from now on, he refuses to do any timed attempts with other cars on the circuit.
Now as i pointed out in another thread, the GTR is so advanced that it doesn't need an ace driver in order to accomplish amazing results. While this is good for lap times, it might not be so good for the driving experience. Porsche had this problem with the 959. That car was genesis but it was too technological for its own good.
This forum has already had polls on which drive train is the most popular and RWD won easily. Why? Because of fun and being a part of the experience. It is also why most of us still own manuals while Americans keep complaining about sitting in traffic.
On paper a 4wd car with a semi box just cant be as driver oriented as a rwd with a 6 speed but results are results and even with a genius driver, sometimes the equipment wins.
Well Porsche has listened and the return of the PDK double clutch transmission is set.
Here is an article from todays Autoblog.
"Porsche decided to do a little 'Ring running in three different 2009-spec 911 models and quietly let the results slip during a press event. A 2009 911S fitted with Porsche's new twin clutch system (PDK: Porsche Doppelkupplung), Porsche Active Stability Management and "sport tires" took the top place, scoring a 7:50. The new PDK shifts a whopping 60-percent faster than the old Tiptronic S.
The first place getter was followed by what is assumed to be a 2009 911S with a manual transmission some eight seconds back, and then a 2008 911 S another four seconds back, at 8:02. There's no word on who was driving the cars, or what exactly counts as a "sport tire."
I want to know that if a 911 S with the PDK is 1 second slower than a 997 Turbo around the track, what will a combination of :
1. 997 Turbo + PDK
2. 997 GT3 + PDK
3. 997 GT3 RS + PDK (expected in late 2009)
4. 997 GT2 + PDK
Be able to accomplish. Oh and let's not forget the successor to the Carrera GT is in the works right now as well. But there is too little info to discuss this.
What im trying to say with this article is this. To all the people that keep saying the GTR will destroy other cars that are far more expensive than it is, so what? It is not as enjoyable to the driver.
It's kind of like having a drag racing car with a trans brake, yes its faster and more consistent. But it feels better to get the same result using a clutch and throttle combo.
Porsche along with other established marks realize that there are those of you that see numbers but don't know what to make of them. So now, there is a reason to go after the GTR. I see Porsche and other European and American brands that are gonna spearhead the effort. But the big push will come form Japanese companies doing what ever it takes to beat the GTR. In order to do this, you have to give unskilled drivers, cars that do the work for them.
I ask. With this onslaught of tech and electronic aids, will the need to be faster force the automakers to make cars that forgot about the driver?
It's pretty apparent now that the holy Nurburgring lap time is the ultimate test of a car. Cars like the GTR are now boasting about its amazing numbers but i feel like there are too many variables to really see that number as a final means to judge a car. I think that allot of people just don't really understand what goes into putting together a Nurburgring lap. That's why i wanted to write this.
So let me begin.
I read an excellent article from this month's Excellence magazine. It was an interview with Walter Rohrl, former World Rally Champion and current head Porsche test driver. Now Walter has to be one of the most gifted drivers of our time and he's been lapping the Ring for the past 40 years. So I'm sure he knows what he's talking about whenever he is describing how a car feels. He is the man that set the 7:32 second lap in the 997 GT2, the 7:49 in a 997 Turbo, and the 7:28 in the Carrera GT.
One thing to consider about all those cars it that they used a standard 6 speed transmission instead of the lightning fast paddle shift unit. But the biggest reasons for these laps being what they were is Walter's knowledge of the track and luck.
Yes, Luck. When Walter did the 7:32 sec lap in the GT2, he almost hit a car coming out of Tiergarten which is the left hander after the 2km straight.
We know that the Nurburgring is open to the public on most days of the week and have seen cars being passed on other record attempts at the track. Walter has told Porsche that from now on, he refuses to do any timed attempts with other cars on the circuit.
Now as i pointed out in another thread, the GTR is so advanced that it doesn't need an ace driver in order to accomplish amazing results. While this is good for lap times, it might not be so good for the driving experience. Porsche had this problem with the 959. That car was genesis but it was too technological for its own good.
This forum has already had polls on which drive train is the most popular and RWD won easily. Why? Because of fun and being a part of the experience. It is also why most of us still own manuals while Americans keep complaining about sitting in traffic.
On paper a 4wd car with a semi box just cant be as driver oriented as a rwd with a 6 speed but results are results and even with a genius driver, sometimes the equipment wins.
Well Porsche has listened and the return of the PDK double clutch transmission is set.
Here is an article from todays Autoblog.
"Porsche decided to do a little 'Ring running in three different 2009-spec 911 models and quietly let the results slip during a press event. A 2009 911S fitted with Porsche's new twin clutch system (PDK: Porsche Doppelkupplung), Porsche Active Stability Management and "sport tires" took the top place, scoring a 7:50. The new PDK shifts a whopping 60-percent faster than the old Tiptronic S.
The first place getter was followed by what is assumed to be a 2009 911S with a manual transmission some eight seconds back, and then a 2008 911 S another four seconds back, at 8:02. There's no word on who was driving the cars, or what exactly counts as a "sport tire."
I want to know that if a 911 S with the PDK is 1 second slower than a 997 Turbo around the track, what will a combination of :
1. 997 Turbo + PDK
2. 997 GT3 + PDK
3. 997 GT3 RS + PDK (expected in late 2009)
4. 997 GT2 + PDK
Be able to accomplish. Oh and let's not forget the successor to the Carrera GT is in the works right now as well. But there is too little info to discuss this.
What im trying to say with this article is this. To all the people that keep saying the GTR will destroy other cars that are far more expensive than it is, so what? It is not as enjoyable to the driver.
It's kind of like having a drag racing car with a trans brake, yes its faster and more consistent. But it feels better to get the same result using a clutch and throttle combo.
Porsche along with other established marks realize that there are those of you that see numbers but don't know what to make of them. So now, there is a reason to go after the GTR. I see Porsche and other European and American brands that are gonna spearhead the effort. But the big push will come form Japanese companies doing what ever it takes to beat the GTR. In order to do this, you have to give unskilled drivers, cars that do the work for them.
I ask. With this onslaught of tech and electronic aids, will the need to be faster force the automakers to make cars that forgot about the driver?