Obama won, now what?

[Jaimecbr900]

So, as expected, Obama is going to get the nod from the Democrats to fly their flag in November. Now what?

- Is Hillary going to be the VP?
- Is he going to be able to make any "changes" as his campaign has promised?
- Is this going to turn into a black and white color race?
- Why did people literally cry, tears, boo-hoo-my-best-friend-got-hit-by-a-car-tears last night?
- What accomplishments does he have on his record, since he's been a Senator for only 2 yrs, never served in the military, hasn't owned a multi-million dollar business.....what exactly makes him the best candidate to lead the most powerful country in the world?
- Is Hillary done with politics?

Discuss.

[Vteckidd]

read the other thread lol.

Hillary has to be carefull because she has 2 options

1) Make OBama realize that HE NEEDS HER TO WIN to capture her people

2) She may not want to run, hope he loses so she can be the front runner in 2012.

I think you will see her stay active, and eventually bow out to distance herself from OBAMA.

Hillary wants the #1 spot, i think her leaking she would take the VP last night was just her way of taking some focus off Obama and his night.

Obama has no record, he wont be able to do anything that hes TRYING to say he can do.

All we can hope is America isnt stupid and follow him into hell and back.

Most of the stuff he said last night scared me. He looked and sounded like a dictator, not a president.

He wants to implement universal health care but has no platform on how to PAY for it.

He wants to end the war.

He wants to sit down an talk with terrorists

He wants to give jobs to people even though unemployment is at almost an all time low

He wants to provide medical care to sick kids even though that already happens.

Again it just shows how ignorant American voters are. They just dont want Bush in office so they will listen to Obama because they like what he says.

[blacknightteg]

in all honestly i think that this country needs something new. regardless of whether or not he's been in the senate for two years. that shouldnt matter. this country has gone down hill for the past 8 years with these old school politics that bush and his administration has brought. Our country has been run by old ass white people for the past umpteen years and its time for something different. A younger president that doesnt nessarily have the same ideals as everyone who came out of the cookie cutter. **** didnt get us anywhere except look like a bunch of dumb people over the past 8 years. i say good riddence that he's the candidate. not that hillary wouldnt have been a good one. but i feel that there needs to be something different and new in that white house. otherwise we are doomed to go down hill as a country.

[osnap]

Is Hillary going to be the VP?Depends. He sure as hell doesn't want that to happen, and with the animosity thats pretty clear between them, its hard to blame him. However, she comes with a lot of votes, and the party knows that, so politically, theres no question that shes the best choice. I'm personally hoping for an Obama-Edwards ticket; anyone but hillary, really.
Is he going to be able to make any "changes" as his campaign has promised?Sure. Will they all work flawlessly and go down uncontested? Certainly not. Will they all come quickly and easily? Don't bet on it. He himself has admitted that a lot of his vision involves some things that aren't going to be easy, but I think he'd work tirelessly to make them realities.
Is this going to turn into a black and white color race? Sadly, I don't doubt it. Theres a LOT hidden under the surface here, and I think race will play a bigger part in the voting than anyone would like to admit.
Why did people literally cry, tears, boo-hoo-my-best-friend-got-hit-by-a-car-tears last night? to be honest, im not sure what you're talking about. I basically watched the speeches and called it a night.
What accomplishments does he have on his record, since he's been a Senator for only 2 yrs, never served in the military, hasn't owned a multi-million dollar business.....what exactly makes him the best candidate to lead the most powerful country in the world? Though these are traditionally regarded as being so, I honestly believe none of these is by any means a requirement for the Presidency. Sure, his Senate experience doesn't span a long timeline, but his record in that short period is certainly respectable. What matters is that he is a great and inspirational leader, a brilliant mind, a dedicated American (no matter what all the rednecks say to the contrary), and an honest man, or at least as honest as politicians come.
Is Hillary done with politics? God no. Shes been running for the 2012 election for months now. She's known good and well that she was done for, regardless of her inability to admit it. That woman will not let go.

[tony]

*sigh* Let me go pull together all my other posts to enlighten those who question Obama but don't take the initiative to really learn since it is popular to question his experience.. brb

[blacknightteg]

yay tony! always commingh into it with a good head on his shoulders! thank you sir!

[osnap]

Good god mike, your posts on this subject are probably the most strongly opinionated things I've ever read. Out of curiousity, do you consider yourself part of the far right, or how would you generalize your political position? Really its just more that I'm curious than anything else, not trying to alienate you or anything.

You just seem to have this campaign that aims to deface the Obama camp in any way that you possibly can. Everyone chooses a side, and thus everyone has their personal adversary, but you dont see most of us going on our own personal little smear campaign about them. You think he's the wrong candidate? Fine. Explain your position, by all means - this is America, after all. But going after every post, determined to tell everyone just how wrong they are is a bit ridiculous imo.

You make a lot of assumptions and point a lot of fingers, especially regarding American voters. But a lot of us are a lot smarter than you give us credit for. Just let it go.

[tony]

Time in the Senate: 1,141 days
Total bills sponsored: 129
Total bills past committee: 9
Total bills enacted: 1
Total bills cosponsored: 545
Example bills:

The SAFE Act (Security and Freedom Enhancement ) - The SAFE Act safeguards a number of intrusive Patriot Act powers

Ethics Reform in Illinois - This one isn't on a national level but interrogations have to be taped in Illinois thanks to Obama, even more impressive is how he garnered support from his opposition by going to the Prisons, getting on the ground floor and playing basketball with victims of police brutality.. the Bill passed with not 1 opposing vote.

The Congressional Ethics Enforcement Commission Act -
The bill would create an outside ethics commission to receive complaints from the public on alleged ethics violations by members of Congress, staff, and lobbyists.

The Transparency and Integrity in Earmarks Act - The bill would shed light on the almost 16,000 earmarks that were included in spending bills in 2005. Under the bill, all earmarks, including the name of the requestor and a justification for the earmark, would have to be disclosed 72 hours before they could be considered by the full Senate. Senators would be prohibited from advocating for an earmark if they have a financial interest in the project or earmark recipient. And, earmark recipients would have to disclose to an Office of Public Integrity the amount that they have spent on registered lobbyists and the names of those lobbyists.

The Curtailing Lobbyist Effectiveness through Advance Notification, Updates, and Posting Act (The CLEAN UP Act) - The bill aims to improve public access to information about all legislation, including conference reports and appropriations legislation, in particular after hurried, end-of-session negotiations.

Senator Obama is a cosponsor of the Medicare Informed Choice Act - Which would extend enrollment without penalty until the end of 2006. This bill would also allow all Part D beneficiaries to change their plan once during 2006.

The National MEDiC Act - Which promotes patient safety initiatives, including early disclosure and compensation to patients injured by medical errors.

Hospital Quality Report Card Act - Which will use federal hospital quality reporting requirements to inform and assist patients and other consumers in making their health care decisions.

Federal Employees Health Benefits Program Efficiency Act - Which would leverage the federal government's purchasing power to encourage increased adoption of technology by participating health plan.

Attacking Viral Influenza Across Nations Act - Which calls for collaboration and cooperation at the state, national, and international level to ensure preparedness in the event of pandemic influenza.

Lead Free Toys Act - Requiring the Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) to ban any children's product containing lead.

Healthy Communities Act - To identify and address problems in communities that are at high risk from environmental contaminants.

Senator Obama introduced two bills - the Mercury Market Minimization Act (S. 3627) and the Missing Mercury in Manufacturing Monitoring and Mitigation Act (S. 3631) These bills would significantly reduce the amount of mercury that is deposited in oceans, lakes, and rivers, which in turn would reduce the amount of mercury in fish.

Senator Obama successfully passed legislation in the Senate to force the Pentagon to work towards an efficient electronic medical records system that will help ensure better care for our nation's troops.

Comittee's Obama sits on:

Foreign Relations Committee
-African Affairs Subcommittee
-East Asia & Pacific Affairs Subcommittee
-European Affairs (Chairman) Subcommittee
-International Development & Foreign Assistance, Economic Affairs & International Environmental Protection Subcommittee

Health, Education, Labor & Pension Committee

-Children & Families Subcommittee
-Employment & Workplace Safety Subcommittee

Homeland Security & Governmental Affairs Committee

-Ad Hoc Committee on State, Local & Private Sector Preparedness & Integration
-Investigations Subcommittee
-Federal Financial Management, Government Information, Federal Services & International Security Subcommittee

Veterans’ Affairs Committee


Amendments, that have all passed:

S.Amdt.159 to S.Con.Res.18 - To prevent and, if necessary, respond to an international outbreak of the avian flu.

S.Amdt.390 to H.R.1268 - To provide meal and telephone benefits for members of the Armed Forces who are recuperating from injuries incurred on active duty in Operation Iraqi Freedom or Operation Enduring Freedom.

S.Amdt.670 to H.R.3 - To provide for Flexible Fuel Vehicle (FFV) refueling capability at new and existing refueling station facilities to promote energy security and reduction of greenhouse gas emissions.

S.Amdt.808 to H.R.6 - To establish a program to develop Fischer-Tropsch transportation fuels from Illinois basin coal.

S.Amdt.851 to H.R.6 - To require the Secretary to establish a Joint Flexible Fuel/Hybrid Vehicle Commercialization Initiative, and for other purposes.

S.Amdt.1362 to S.1042 - To require a report on the Department of Defense Composite Health Care System II.

S.Amdt.1453 to S.1402 - To ensure the protection of military and civilian personnel in the Department of Defense from an influenza pandemic, including an avian influenza pandemic.

S.Amdt.2301 to H.R.3010 - To increase funds to the Thurgood Marshall Legal Educational Opportunity Program and to the Office of Special Education Programs of the Department of Education for the purposes of expanding positive behavioral interventions and supports.

S.Amdt.2605 to S.2020 - Expressing the sense of the Senate that the Federal Emergency Management Agency should immediately address issues relating to no-bid contracting.

S.Amdt.2930 to S.2349 - To clarify that availability of legislation does not include nonbusiness days.
S.Amdt.3144 to S.Con.Res.83 - To provide a $40 million increase in FY 2007 for the Homeless Veterans Reintegration Program and to improve job services for hard-to-place veterans

S. Amdt 41 to S. 1 To require lobbyists to disclose the candidates, leadership PACs, or political parties for whom they collect or arrange contributions, and the aggregate amount of the contributions collected or arranged.

[blacknightteg]

Time in the Senate: 1,141 days
Total bills sponsored: 129
Total bills past committee: 9
Total bills enacted: 1
Total bills cosponsored: 545
Example bills:

The SAFE Act (Security and Freedom Enhancement ) - The SAFE Act safeguards a number of intrusive Patriot Act powers

Ethics Reform in Illinois - This one isn't on a national level but interrogations have to be taped in Illinois thanks to Obama, even more impressive is how he garnered support from his opposition by going to the Prisons, getting on the ground floor and playing basketball with victims of police brutality.. the Bill passed with not 1 opposing vote.

The Congressional Ethics Enforcement Commission Act -
The bill would create an outside ethics commission to receive complaints from the public on alleged ethics violations by members of Congress, staff, and lobbyists.

The Transparency and Integrity in Earmarks Act - The bill would shed light on the almost 16,000 earmarks that were included in spending bills in 2005. Under the bill, all earmarks, including the name of the requestor and a justification for the earmark, would have to be disclosed 72 hours before they could be considered by the full Senate. Senators would be prohibited from advocating for an earmark if they have a financial interest in the project or earmark recipient. And, earmark recipients would have to disclose to an Office of Public Integrity the amount that they have spent on registered lobbyists and the names of those lobbyists.

The Curtailing Lobbyist Effectiveness through Advance Notification, Updates, and Posting Act (The CLEAN UP Act) - The bill aims to improve public access to information about all legislation, including conference reports and appropriations legislation, in particular after hurried, end-of-session negotiations.

Senator Obama is a cosponsor of the Medicare Informed Choice Act - Which would extend enrollment without penalty until the end of 2006. This bill would also allow all Part D beneficiaries to change their plan once during 2006.

The National MEDiC Act - Which promotes patient safety initiatives, including early disclosure and compensation to patients injured by medical errors.

Hospital Quality Report Card Act - Which will use federal hospital quality reporting requirements to inform and assist patients and other consumers in making their health care decisions.

Federal Employees Health Benefits Program Efficiency Act - Which would leverage the federal government's purchasing power to encourage increased adoption of technology by participating health plan.

Attacking Viral Influenza Across Nations Act - Which calls for collaboration and cooperation at the state, national, and international level to ensure preparedness in the event of pandemic influenza.

Lead Free Toys Act - Requiring the Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) to ban any children's product containing lead.

Healthy Communities Act - To identify and address problems in communities that are at high risk from environmental contaminants.

Senator Obama introduced two bills - the Mercury Market Minimization Act (S. 3627) and the Missing Mercury in Manufacturing Monitoring and Mitigation Act (S. 3631) These bills would significantly reduce the amount of mercury that is deposited in oceans, lakes, and rivers, which in turn would reduce the amount of mercury in fish.

Senator Obama successfully passed legislation in the Senate to force the Pentagon to work towards an efficient electronic medical records system that will help ensure better care for our nation's troops.

Comittee's Obama sits on:

Foreign Relations Committee
-African Affairs Subcommittee
-East Asia & Pacific Affairs Subcommittee
-European Affairs (Chairman) Subcommittee
-International Development & Foreign Assistance, Economic Affairs & International Environmental Protection Subcommittee

Health, Education, Labor & Pension Committee

-Children & Families Subcommittee
-Employment & Workplace Safety Subcommittee

Homeland Security & Governmental Affairs Committee

-Ad Hoc Committee on State, Local & Private Sector Preparedness & Integration
-Investigations Subcommittee
-Federal Financial Management, Government Information, Federal Services & International Security Subcommittee

Veterans’ Affairs Committee


Amendments, that have all passed:

S.Amdt.159 to S.Con.Res.18 - To prevent and, if necessary, respond to an international outbreak of the avian flu.

S.Amdt.390 to H.R.1268 - To provide meal and telephone benefits for members of the Armed Forces who are recuperating from injuries incurred on active duty in Operation Iraqi Freedom or Operation Enduring Freedom.

S.Amdt.670 to H.R.3 - To provide for Flexible Fuel Vehicle (FFV) refueling capability at new and existing refueling station facilities to promote energy security and reduction of greenhouse gas emissions.

S.Amdt.808 to H.R.6 - To establish a program to develop Fischer-Tropsch transportation fuels from Illinois basin coal.

S.Amdt.851 to H.R.6 - To require the Secretary to establish a Joint Flexible Fuel/Hybrid Vehicle Commercialization Initiative, and for other purposes.

S.Amdt.1362 to S.1042 - To require a report on the Department of Defense Composite Health Care System II.

S.Amdt.1453 to S.1402 - To ensure the protection of military and civilian personnel in the Department of Defense from an influenza pandemic, including an avian influenza pandemic.

S.Amdt.2301 to H.R.3010 - To increase funds to the Thurgood Marshall Legal Educational Opportunity Program and to the Office of Special Education Programs of the Department of Education for the purposes of expanding positive behavioral interventions and supports.

S.Amdt.2605 to S.2020 - Expressing the sense of the Senate that the Federal Emergency Management Agency should immediately address issues relating to no-bid contracting.

S.Amdt.2930 to S.2349 - To clarify that availability of legislation does not include nonbusiness days.
S.Amdt.3144 to S.Con.Res.83 - To provide a $40 million increase in FY 2007 for the Homeless Veterans Reintegration Program and to improve job services for hard-to-place veterans

S. Amdt 41 to S. 1 To require lobbyists to disclose the candidates, leadership PACs, or political parties for whom they collect or arrange contributions, and the aggregate amount of the contributions collected or arranged.


+reps to you sir. very good information. i always wandered what he had actually passed in the senate or did in general

[osnap]

did you really need to quote that whole post?

[blacknightteg]

yes. yes i did haha!

[Vteckidd]

Im republican, but i find myself more and more in the middle.

Im unhappy with the current political system, im not a Mccain supporter, Hillary scares me, Obama terrifies me.

Tony i dont see anything you posted as being "WOW". Thats a pretty lack luster typical NORMAL record compared to other more qualified people.

Same with HIllary

[tony]

Lets talk experience for a second, Barack is either on par or above Lincoln, Reagan, G.W Bush, Carter and Kennedy as far as political experience goes.

Take it a step further and talk Judgement vs Experience.

James Buchanan - Arguably the most experienced President and he essentially led the country to a Civil War

Richard Nixon - Probably the most experienced president of our generation and he left the presidency in shame. No explanation needed.

Andrew Johnson - 15 years of experience and pretty much killed Lincoln's legacy. The only other president to be Impeached, we know who the other is.

Now.. the flip side of that, less experience..

Frankin Roosevelt - One of the least experienced presidents in history, relatively new to politics and the longest serving president ever.. 4 terms and presided during WWII.

Woodrow Wilson
Theodore Roosevelt
Ulysses Grant was very inexperienced and was plagued with corruption but still made history for his efforts.
Lincoln (ironically, a politician from Illinois)
Truman
Jefferson
And Eisenhower.. all relatively new to the executive branch of government.

Kind of strange but.. when you look at it experience seems to have NOTHING to do with what makes a president great but rather their judgement in time of crisis.

Lincoln had ZERO experience in wartime or military but presided the country over what was the most pivotal period of time in the Civil War.

[tony]

So.. now that I've probably wasted my time getting that info. Hillary will not be the running mate but will be a part of Obama's Cabinet. Expect Bill Richardson to be Obama's running mate.. he has international experience, a governor AND hispanic.. revolutionary for not only an African American but also a Hispanic on the ticket.

This only turns into a black/white thing when the people/media make it out to be that. Check the transcripts and you'll never hear Obama draw a line on race, if anything he pushes to close that gap.

[tony]

Tony i dont see anything you posted as being "WOW". Thats a pretty lack luster typical NORMAL record compared to other more qualified people.


Then you're saying he's on par with those more qualified correct? Show me a political record that is impressive to you over the span of 2 years cause I would love to see the comparison.

[twinj]

Obama is obvious the better canidate.

[osnap]

Obama is obvious the better canidate.
im on your side here, dont get me wrong, but a post like this is honestly worthless. back it up, dude.

[BanginJimmy]

Obama has said yes to the right bills, but he hasnt lived up to them. He is still asking for nearly 100 million in earmarks.
He still voted for the farm bill which was mostly earmarks.
He voted for the Iraq funding bill than was more than 60% earmarks that didnt send a penny to Iraq or anything involved with iraq.

And in over 3 years he had 1 bill enacted? That a pretty lackluster record.

[Lizbiz101]

Damn Tony you killin um!!!! Obama may not have the experience everyone seems to want him to have but in is legislations he has tried to do more for the sake of the people. And I think that is why so many people like him. He is giving America back to its people. Change is definitely what we need right now especially after the 8 years in hell we’ve had. We also have the race between Markel Hutchins who’s only 31 years old and 68 year old John Lewis who is been there since the beginning. You can see America is ready for something new, and I am really excited to see what’s going to happen.

[twinj]

im on your side here, dont get me wrong, but a post like this is honestly worthless. back it up, dude.

Yea I know. I am at work so can't really make a Bio. IMO he is the one that is in the streets working for the people. The other two canidate (McCain-another bush), Hillary(is just power hungry and seem to be saying anything to get in there.)

[Blitanicle99]

Everyone talks about how tho Obama has no experiance and neither did other presidents.

I think its a huge issue of times have changed. Our society cannot be run by someone who doesn't know what they are doing. Our country will fall fast if that happens. Maybe 50 years ago, this was acceptable. Today it isnt. Presidents need some kind of experiance and I personally think military should be one of them.

[wantboost]

He is giving America back to its people.
:lmfao:

[MistaCee]

Im republican, but i find myself more and more in the middle.

Im unhappy with the current political system, im not a Mccain supporter, Hillary scares me, Obama terrifies me.

Tony i dont see anything you posted as being "WOW". Thats a pretty lack luster typical NORMAL record compared to other more qualified people.

Same with HIllary

So you are more afraid of Obama and Hillary than McCain? You must have really loved the last 8 years huh.

[Nerdsrock22]

What is there to fear about McCain? He is the most generic, lackluster, mediocre Republican presidential hopeful of our generation.

And to those of you who are voting for "change we can believe in", enjoy your brand new Nanny State. Where liberty is thrown out the window so you can live your lives, depending on the government for every single need.

Face it. We're Screwed '08.

*on a re-read that seems very ranting...just worried about America :( *

[tony]

Everyone talks about how tho Obama has no experiance and neither did other presidents.

I think its a huge issue of times have changed. Our society cannot be run by someone who doesn't know what they are doing. Our country will fall fast if that happens. Maybe 50 years ago, this was acceptable. Today it isnt. Presidents need some kind of experiance and I personally think military should be one of them.

By your rationale EXPERIENCE wasn't necessary at a time when this country was at war with itself, when a race of people were being killed in Germany, when our entire Western Fleet of our Navy was bombed, during the Greatest economic depression to ever hit this country but its OH SO important now? Do you even read or understand how serious this history is in this country? If you did something like that wouldn't even cross your mind. Our generation has seen nothing like the Civil War and as I said before Lincoln became historic for his judgement and his ability to adapt to the conditions rather than his experience.

Come with facts as to why experience (especially military) is important and not talking points lifted from the republican agenda. Some of you claim to expect substance from Obama but you don't even speak with it yourselves.

[Spektrewing386]

mccain isnt your regular mediocre republican... hes a different kind of republican. hes in the boundaries of neoconservatism. you can see that 10 years ago he wasnt, but look at him today, hes on the neoconservative side. Neoconservatism is the belief that america has the authority to have total global dominance and to supress those countries and people that go against their ways.

[Nerdsrock22]

Neoconservatism is the belief that america has the authority to have total global dominance and to supress those countries and people that go against their ways.


...false.

[Nerdsrock22]

Neoconservatism is a political philosophy that emerged in the United States from the rejection of the social liberalism, moral relativism, and New Left counterculture of the 1960s.

-wiki

[Spektrewing386]

thats only the history of its origin, you have not said a definition.




"Neoconservatism emphasizes foreign policy as the paramount responsibility of government, maintaining that America's role as the world's sole superpower is indispensable to establishing and maintaining global order."



so what does it mean to you?

[Jaimecbr900]

Well Tony, as much as I respect your opinion and you've always shown to really know your stuff.....you didn't give a focused synopsis on Barrack.

If you look at all those "bills", it would SEEM that it was A: All thought up by Mr. Obama, or B: that they all had some kind of impact. Reality is that the overwhelming majority of ALL of those "bills" were #1 CO-SPONSORED (which means everything from Co-wrote to bandwagon jumping) by Obama and more importantly NOT passed into any meaningful laws. They either got stuck in committee or vetoed by Bush. He did get a bunch of resolutions and BS fluffer legislature passed either tagged along with other bills or as stand alone resolutions. Things so earth shattering as "National and Global Youth service day" and resolution to wish a fellow Senator "a speedy recovery from surgery".....:rolleyes: This is what the Barrack camp would proudly stand behind as part of an elustrive resume of legislative stances????? Kidding me, right? :rolleyes:

So, yes, technically and historically Barrack Obama has CO-SPONSORED a ton of things and even got 2 things that HE sponsored passed and approved. But in reality, most of the things he's done in almost 10 yrs of politics add up to a lot of "puffing the goods" IMO.

BTW, you can always look everything up for yourselves in the Library of Congress. Here's the link:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/thomas

Seriously, how come the CEO of a major company has to have all these qualifications to lead a company, yet everyone wants to gloss over the FACT that one of the contenders to lead this COUNTRY is a relative unknown. Is that always a bad thing? Maybe not. Maybe so.

My reservations about Obama stem from his views on National Security and his Socialist background. I don't like that. Not for someone that is supposed to be a representation of what I believe in and stand for. FOR ME, it's not a good fit.

:2cents:

[Nerdsrock22]

valid point my friend. But. I would probably examine it from a less biased standpoint. I don't think Bush or any of his Neo-cons are interested in Global Dominance. As evidence of that, I throw out that American has never conquered another nation. I used conquered to denote defeating a country and taking solitary political and economic control of said nation.

That being said, I'm no neo-con so I'm not into all this nation-building anyways.

[Spektrewing386]

cheney and rumsfeld were the backseat drivers of these wars so i can blame them the most.

[Nerdsrock22]

not to sound like Toby Keith or whoever...but have you forgotten about the whole terrorism/9-11 thing? Now I'm not saying there weren't other "incentives", but you do realize there are people there who want you dead right?

[Jaimecbr900]

BTW, I didn't intend this thread to be some kind of platform for Mccain for 08 thing. I really wanted to see just how truly informed Obama supporters are about what's going on now and happen in the future.

I mean when I saw the other night on TV people literally counting down like it was New Year's eve and boo-hoo crying when it was announced......I just have to try and understand what all the hoopla is about. To be honest, I don't think most of his supporters even know. ;)

[Spektrewing386]

i was talking about iraq war and the whole set your sights on iran issues.

attacking the taliban and al-qaeda is the correct thing to do and every one in the political spectrum agrees, but the invasion of iraq is a a product of backseat drivers whispering into Bush's ear.

My point is that many people support Obama so they dont have to live with McCain

[Nerdsrock22]

Fair enough. While there were alot of people pointing to Iraq (left, right, all over the world), I'm still not postive it was crucial to the "War on Terror". Especially with the budget it has accrued as of recent. Furthermore, while the Iranian dictator is dangerous, I think his bark is worse than his bite for now. Jumping into another "lets turn another historically tyrant-ruled nation into a democracy overnight" would be a terrible idea.

[Nerdsrock22]

My point is that many people support Obama so they dont have to live with McCain

many people support McCain so they don't have to live with Obama.

I support revolution so I don't have to live with either.

[Spektrewing386]

exactly, people want a change in direction from current shoot now ask questions later policy where billions of dollars are lost. People are not afraid of foreign threats anymore because to many of us it is just crying wolf. People want to trust the government again.


I think people are going hoopla and stuff just because this tense year long struggle is finally over. a democratic primary that lasts as long as 30% of a presidental term... thats a long time.. and we dont have to deal with it anymore and we can finally move on.

[Nerdsrock22]

which is why Ron Paul should be president. :bump:

[Spektrewing386]

i like many of ron's ideas, but somethings i dont like. what i extremely dont like is how the media has blocked him out.

[Total_Blender]

Control of nations doesn't have to be overtly implemented or even solitary. Ever hear of neocolonialism? When we invaded Iraq and Afghanistan we installed governments that were more in keeping with American interests than those that were there previously. Both Iraq and Afghanistan have important roles in the global market. Opium poppies in Afghanistan (used in the making of pharmeceuticals) and oil in Iraq. It is in US national interests to ensure that those markets are open to Western capatalists.

And also, theres the issue of Guantanamo. some in our current administration believe that the US has the right to imprison and even torture foreign nationals without charging them with any offense and without giving them legal representation.

Barack's record is on par with other beginning senators, there really isn't that much a senator can do in a single term. Its not fair to compare his accomplishments with those of someone who has been in congress for 30+ years.

He's not my first choice, I would have perferred Dennis Kucinich but he's way too far left for middle America. Hopefully Barack will pick John Edwards as his running mate. The vice president is really just as important as the president because of the VP's role in the senate.

[Nerdsrock22]

I've seen a lot more grassroot support for Ron Paul than I have for McCain. People are tired of the Republican party as it stands now. The Right needs more than homophobic democrats.

[Total_Blender]

I've seen a lot more grassroot support for Ron Paul than I have for McCain. People are tired of the Republican party as it stands now. The Right needs more than homophobic xenophobic warmongering eavesdropping pro-torture social darwinists.

fixed it for you :lmfao:

[Spektrewing386]

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/bushswar/



and Afghanistan have important roles in the global market. Opium poppies in Afghanistan (used in the making of pharmeceuticals)


I dont believe that afghanistan was part of some secret plan, no one really cares about opium. The Afghanistan issue spans back about 30 years around 1979 with the Soviet invasion. And that butterfly effected into Sept 11, 2001.

[Nerdsrock22]

fixed it for you :lmfao:

that makes you a terrorist round these parts son.

:lmfao: :fire:

[Spektrewing386]

I mainly want to know who will be in Obama's cabinet, because those have huge influence on what goes on.

[Vteckidd]

Well Tony, as much as I respect your opinion and you've always shown to really know your stuff.....you didn't give a focused synopsis on Barrack.

If you look at all those "bills", it would SEEM that it was A: All thought up by Mr. Obama, or B: that they all had some kind of impact. Reality is that the overwhelming majority of ALL of those "bills" were #1 CO-SPONSORED (which means everything from Co-wrote to bandwagon jumping) by Obama and more importantly NOT passed into any meaningful laws. They either got stuck in committee or vetoed by Bush. He did get a bunch of resolutions and BS fluffer legislature passed either tagged along with other bills or as stand alone resolutions. Things so earth shattering as "National and Global Youth service day" and resolution to wish a fellow Senator "a speedy recovery from surgery".....:rolleyes: This is what the Barrack camp would proudly stand behind as part of an elustrive resume of legislative stances????? Kidding me, right? :rolleyes:

So, yes, technically and historically Barrack Obama has CO-SPONSORED a ton of things and even got 2 things that HE sponsored passed and approved. But in reality, most of the things he's done in almost 10 yrs of politics add up to a lot of "puffing the goods" IMO.

BTW, you can always look everything up for yourselves in the Library of Congress. Here's the link:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/thomas

Seriously, how come the CEO of a major company has to have all these qualifications to lead a company, yet everyone wants to gloss over the FACT that one of the contenders to lead this COUNTRY is a relative unknown. Is that always a bad thing? Maybe not. Maybe so.

My reservations about Obama stem from his views on National Security and his Socialist background. I don't like that. Not for someone that is supposed to be a representation of what I believe in and stand for. FOR ME, it's not a good fit.

:2cents:

see this is what is in my head, jaime just puts it into words for me lol

[Vteckidd]

You must have really loved the last 8 years huh.

Tell me someone that could have done something BETTER

THe clinton era prospered because of BUSH SR

you want to point the finger, CLinton had the opportunity to take down Bin Laden and DIDNT. We were attacked because CLINTON REFUSED TO TAKE OUT OBAMA.

So we were attacked an things changed. The last 8 years have been fine for me.

ill expand more this evening

[Spektrewing386]

We were attacked because CLINTON REFUSED TO TAKE OUT OBAMA.




i think you mean Osama.

[Nerdsrock22]

i think you mean Osama.

Freudian slip.

[tony]

Well Tony, as much as I respect your opinion and you've always shown to really know your stuff.....you didn't give a focused synopsis on Barrack.

If you look at all those "bills", it would SEEM that it was A: All thought up by Mr. Obama, or B: that they all had some kind of impact. Reality is that the overwhelming majority of ALL of those "bills" were #1 CO-SPONSORED (which means everything from Co-wrote to bandwagon jumping) by Obama and more importantly NOT passed into any meaningful laws. They either got stuck in committee or vetoed by Bush. He did get a bunch of resolutions and BS fluffer legislature passed either tagged along with other bills or as stand alone resolutions. Things so earth shattering as "National and Global Youth service day" and resolution to wish a fellow Senator "a speedy recovery from surgery".....:rolleyes: This is what the Barrack camp would proudly stand behind as part of an elustrive resume of legislative stances????? Kidding me, right? :rolleyes:

So, yes, technically and historically Barrack Obama has CO-SPONSORED a ton of things and even got 2 things that HE sponsored passed and approved. But in reality, most of the things he's done in almost 10 yrs of politics add up to a lot of "puffing the goods" IMO.

BTW, you can always look everything up for yourselves in the Library of Congress. Here's the link:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/thomas

Seriously, how come the CEO of a major company has to have all these qualifications to lead a company, yet everyone wants to gloss over the FACT that one of the contenders to lead this COUNTRY is a relative unknown. Is that always a bad thing? Maybe not. Maybe so.

My reservations about Obama stem from his views on National Security and his Socialist background. I don't like that. Not for someone that is supposed to be a representation of what I believe in and stand for. FOR ME, it's not a good fit.

:2cents:

This is really all I want.. challenge the man on his policy and get informed. My issue comes from manufactured situations used to scare people not to vote for him. If you don't want to vote for Barack.. let it be because he wants windfall profit taxes on Oil Corps, don't do it because you think Michelle Obama is not patriotic or he wont wear a lapel pin.

I take the same issue for those who support Obama only because he is black or because Hillary is a woman.

[quickdodge®]

He is giving America back to its people.

http://www.tarryl.com/portraits/paintings/crying_indian.jpg

That is a tear of joy. He thank Obama for setting shiit straight.

Later, QD.

[Nerdsrock22]

^^^ He's been fightin' terrorists since 1492.

[quickdodge®]

^^^ I'll be the first to admit that I'm a biitch when it comes to politics, but I do know what I posted above is a true response to the comment I quoted. Later, QD.

[Lucky DAWG]

Damn Tony you killin um!!!! Obama may not have the experience everyone seems to want him to have but in is legislations he has tried to do more for the sake of the people. And I think that is why so many people like him. He is giving America back to its people. Change is definitely what we need right now especially after the 8 years in hell we’ve had. We also have the race between Markel Hutchins who’s only 31 years old and 68 year old John Lewis who is been there since the beginning. You can see America is ready for something new, and I am really excited to see what’s going to happen.



completely retarded statement.


have you read Obama's book "Dreams of my father", Ann Coulter did an article on it that sums it up pretty well.

Its pretty much 300 pages about how the white man has put him down and he expresses a lot of anger on racial issues.




when was a time in the past when we saw a big political leader with great rhetoric skills write a book like that, Mein Kampf... ring a bell?




I don't like McCain, but Obama is seriously going to put the country in the ****ter, its really about the lesser of two evils at this point, i personally would have gone with Rudy over anyone else.

He has no experience

i will lead an exodus to canada in november if things go sour.
pm me for details on wagon prices.

[Nerdsrock22]

i will lead an exodus to canada in november if things go sour.
pm me for details on wagon prices.

Canada is already more socialist than we are. I don't think that would be a good move for you.


^^^ I'll be the first to admit that I'm a biitch when it comes to politics, but I do know what I posted above is a true response to the comment I quoted. Later, QD.


Dude I'm all about Native rights. They got effed pretty dang hard.

[Lucky DAWG]

Canada is already more socialist than we are. I don't think that would be a good move for you.



Dude I'm all about Native rights. They got effed pretty dang hard.


hmmmmm.........
Germany???

[Total_Blender]

have you read Obama's book "Dreams of my father", Ann Coulter did an article on it that sums it up pretty well.
.

Did you read his book yourself or did you just read Ann Coulter's review? Because Ann Coulter is about as credibile a source as a shetland pony on meth. :crazy:

[Nerdsrock22]

I think America is still your best bet as far as liberty goes. Unless you head to some small tropical island a la Micronesia.

[ueyedgr8tness]

rEPS to tony for doing his homework unlike most these ppl :)

[Lucky DAWG]

Did you read his book yourself or did you just read Ann Coulter's review? Because Ann Coulter is about as credibile a source as a shetland pony on meth. :crazy:


i've read parts, not start to finish... he gets pretty worked up on it, dark aspects you don't want to see coming out from a presidential candidate.


I don't want to see some one in power though who is going to make even more social programs that we can't afford especially right now. I wait for the day of fair tax and no affirmitive action.

[Total_Blender]

Tell me someone that could have done something BETTER


Al Gore (no, seriously) :goodjob:

[Total_Blender]

I don't want to see some one in power though who is going to make even more social programs that we can't afford especially right now. .

As opposed to someone who creates social programs and doesn't fund them (No Child Left Behind, anyone?)

Don't even get me started on the "Fair" Tax...... it will create more problems than it will solve.

[Nerdsrock22]

name 1.

[Lucky DAWG]

As opposed to someone who creates social programs and doesn't fund them (No Child Left Behind, anyone?)

Don't even get me started on the "Fair" Tax...... it will create more problems than it will solve.



you mean by boosting the economy and creating jobs that everyone moans about there is a lack of?



federal funding for education has increased by time and a half, so i don't know where the first part came from.

[osnap]

Ann Coulter? .... *shudder*

The antichrist herself.

[Lucky DAWG]

Ann Coulter? .... *shudder*

The antichrist herself.


shes pretty biased
but CNBC is the real antichrist

[osnap]

Actually chase, don't pretend like i don't know. its YOU. YOU'RE the antichrist.

[Lucky DAWG]

Actually chase, don't pretend like i don't know. its YOU. YOU'RE the antichrist.





you give away my plan...














... i take your first born son...

[Lizbiz101]

have you read Obama's book "Dreams of my father", Ann Coulter did an article on it that sums it up pretty well.

Its pretty much 300 pages about how the white man has put him down and he expresses a lot of anger on racial issues.

i will lead an exodus to canada in november if things go sour.
pm me for details on wagon prices. Being the strong black woman that I am.....That is awesome, I should read that book. And please hurry up and go to Canada. Obama 08 :goodjob: John McCain who??

[Lucky DAWG]

Being the strong black woman that I am.....That is awesome, I should read that book. And please hurry up and go to Canada. Obama 08 :goodjob: John McCain who??



fuel to the fire for Obama's fall

[CobraClone]

Being the strong black woman that I am.....That is awesome, I should read that book.



So, by that, are you saying that you are racist and enjoy others speaking the same way. Is this why you want him to be president? Because you share the same views?

Hate will never extinguish hate. (As had been stated more times than anything ever need be said) It only adds fuel to the fire.

I could never vote for someone who has the background Obama has. I do not beleive I need to give examples. They have been listed too many times already. If you haven't realized by now that he will NOT unite this country then nothing anyone says will make you realize this.

I do not like either of the candidates, but I will vote for the lesser of two evils.

[Total_Blender]

you mean by boosting the economy and creating jobs that everyone moans about there is a lack of?.

Well you are right on one part... it will create jobs. The conservatives complain about how the IRS is a huge beauraucracy. Well the IRS sends checks once a year (and those stimulus packages every now and then). Imagine the further beauraucracy needed to send out checks once a month to all Americans below the poverty line as the proponents of the Fair Tax suggest.

Also, I thought it was the goal of the conservatives to get poor people off of monthly government checks... now they want to put all poor people on them. What gives?

And Ann Coulter should give up writing/speaking and pose for Hustler magazine while she is still somewhat attractive. Note that I said Hustler, because Playboy expects their models to have at least a little class. :lmfao:

[.::UNKNOWN::.]

see the whole race thing is touchy for me..... i am not racist....... i am 1/2 American Indian...... i still have family over in Oklahoma and that is where my mom's side of the family comes from... if any body should have remorse to white people it should be the American Indians that where marched out of there homelands and put in a small section of land where they all had to live..... that is why the american indian population is dwendled to almost nothing..... i hate the fact bc i have a white skin toned i am looked at as automaticly i owned slaves and i am the biggest racist ever.... my family on my dad's side where sharecroppers (legalized slavery) and my mom's side was marched to a unknown land and was told to stay that is my whole take on racial issues

[.::UNKNOWN::.]

Well you are right on one part... it will create jobs. The conservatives complain about how the IRS is a huge beauraucracy. Well the IRS sends checks once a year (and those stimulus packages every now and then). Imagine the further beauraucracy needed to send out checks once a month to all Americans below the poverty line as the proponents of the Fair Tax suggest. the fair tax also will abolish the irs and april 15th.... the monthly check will be like getting your tax refund for the whole year split up into 12 months.... the fair tax will also give you the option to support things if you want by buying new goods and not support things by not buying anything.... so in other words you don't want to fund the war go under the radar grow your own food, don't buy anything make your clothes and the government will not get any tax money from you..... the current tax code is so complicated it isn't funny..the repulicans aren't complaining fair tax supporters can't get a republican to even consider the bill except one mike huckabee that is why i am a libertarian bob barr 08... and hey i would like all of my paycheck to do what i want with it, if i sell a house i don't want to pay capital gains taxes on the profit(which they are the lowest they have been in years), if i save for retirement in a 401k i don't want to pay taxes on that when i recive it..... like i say all the time to each his own :goodjob:

[Total_Blender]

A lot of white people are proud of their heritage and will tell you how their ancestors fought in the Civil War, WWI, WWII, Vietnam, etc. They will tell you stories about how their ancestors migrated from Germany, Scotland, Ireland, wherever.

I wonder how we (and I do include myself here) would react if we were told by society to "get over it" and that our struggles, our heritage, and our culture are not special, not necessary, not valid.

.........

And for those of you who oppose affirmative action.... on your next application, where it asks for your race... just check off "black" if you feel like blacks have an advantage.:goodjob:

[Total_Blender]

and hey i would like all of my paycheck to do what i want with it, :goodjob:

Have fun paying 30% more for goods and services. And I really doubt most people in America are capable of growing their own food anymore. I've tried that before and its hard work, not to mention you have to own land to grow food on. :2cents:

And Bob Barr? Is that some kinda joke? I'd vote for Gary Coleman before I'd vote for him. Hey..... is Gary Coleman running this year? He was a serious contender is the California Governor's race last year :ninja:

[.::UNKNOWN::.]

and no the price wont go up 30 percent you need to read the legislation before making ASSumptions..... under the fair tax all corporate tax burdens will be abolished(before anybody says ohs noes tax cut for the rich) with the tax burdens taking away which as of right now the tax burden is 30 percent..... that means the cost of making the good has went down 30 percent...... so that is where they ad the 30 percent for taxes...... so instead of getting your paycheck taxed right at 25-30 percent then going and buying a good that a giant mega corporation has passed off the tax burden they have on to you and getting taxed at a whole total of lets just say 60 percent you get one tax burden of 30 percent..... and the comment of growing your own food... it isn't that hard the problem of people today they want everything already done for them.... everybody is lazy.... hell it isn't that hard to grow food yeah it involves work but hey if it saves you money to put into your car i think it is well worth it:goodjob:

[Lucky DAWG]

So, by that, are you saying that you are racist and enjoy others speaking the same way. Is this why you want him to be president? Because you share the same views?

Hate will never extinguish hate. (As had been stated more times than anything ever need be said) It only adds fuel to the fire.

I could never vote for someone who has the background Obama has. I do not beleive I need to give examples. They have been listed too many times already. If you haven't realized by now that he will NOT unite this country then nothing anyone says will make you realize this.

I do not like either of the candidates, but I will vote for the lesser of two evils.



my point exactly man.
i'm conservative, but its so obvious how bad Obama is.





he resembles so much characters like Hitler, Stalin, and Castro. Great public speakers with beautiful and inspiring rhetroic who come from the outside of the centralized government with new, fresh ideas who appear as "liberators"... but they really have agendas fueled with hate from a troubled background.



if history can teach us anything, its to avoid characters like Obama, i don't know how many times we need the same lesson again and again.

[Spektrewing386]

i dont think Obama is looking to start any world wars like hitler and stalin did, thats mccain's job.

[Lucky DAWG]

i dont think Obama is looking to start any world wars like hitler and stalin did, thats mccain's job.


jokes aside
you have no idea what he is going to do until he gets in power

[Jaimecbr900]

Well you are right on one part... it will create jobs.

What exactly is the down side to this? :thinking: You should re-think your retorts a little better next time.

Let me show you why......



The conservatives complain about how the IRS is a huge beauraucracy.

This sentence shows two things about you: 1. You're a tree hugging liberal, and 2. If you want to be taken seriously in any debate, you should use that tool called "spell check". :rolleyes:


Well the IRS sends checks once a year (and those stimulus packages every now and then). Imagine the further beauraucracy needed to send out checks once a month to all Americans below the poverty line as the proponents of the Fair Tax suggest.

First of all, just WHERE do you suppose those good ole' "once-a-year" checks come from????? Let me give you a hint.......it's called a REFUND for a reason. Dur, durrrrr......:rolleyes: It's money that you've OVER paid. It's NOT "free" money. It's giving you back a PORTION of what YOU have paid AHEAD OF TIME, ABOVE AND BEYOND what you were "supposed" to. Follow that? Probably not. Well then keep thinking that the IRS just "gives out" all those checks once-a-year.

Second, how many checks do you think that "Americans below poverty levels" get NOW????? You sir have no clue how things actually work. It sounds to me like you've been indoctrinated rather well into the Democratic way of life.


Also, I thought it was the goal of the conservatives to get poor people off of monthly government checks... now they want to put all poor people on them. What gives?

Again, you have no clue what you're talking about. Those "Conservatives" you incorrectly quote probably want people to stand on their own two feet rather than ask for hand-outs from good ole' Uncle Sam. Yet again, I fail to see the "down" side to this thought process.

Why do you keep repeating the same old tired war cry of "poor people are going to suffer"? I'll tell you what......explain exactly HOW those "poor people" are going to suffer? I challenge YOU to come up with YOUR own thoughts on just HOW the Fair Tax is going to make people who PAY LITTLE TO NO TAXES NOW pay any more than they are already paying......which again is LITTLE TO NOTHING. Let's see how YOU answer that.

Before you spew out incorrect information again, educate yourself better about what you're trying to put down. You sound exactly like that Texas Senator that looked like a deer caught in headlights when he was asked to name ONE of Obama's accomplishments on National TV. I bet you've not even read the Fair Tax book, have you?

[Lucky DAWG]

What exactly is the down side to this? :thinking: You should re-think your retorts a little better next time.

Let me show you why......




This sentence shows two things about you: 1. You're a tree hugging liberal, and 2. If you want to be taken seriously in any debate, you should use that tool called "spell check". :rolleyes:



First of all, just WHERE do you suppose those good ole' "once-a-year" checks come from????? Let me give you a hint.......it's called a REFUND for a reason. Dur, durrrrr......:rolleyes: It's money that you've OVER paid. It's NOT "free" money. It's giving you back a PORTION of what YOU have paid AHEAD OF TIME, ABOVE AND BEYOND what you were "supposed" to. Follow that? Probably not. Well then keep thinking that the IRS just "gives out" all those checks once-a-year.

Second, how many checks do you think that "Americans below poverty levels" get NOW????? You sir have no clue how things actually work. It sounds to me like you've been indoctrinated rather well into the Democratic way of life.



Again, you have no clue what you're talking about. Those "Conservatives" you incorrectly quote probably want people to stand on their own two feet rather than ask for hand-outs from good ole' Uncle Sam. Yet again, I fail to see the "down" side to this thought process.

Why do you keep repeating the same old tired war cry of "poor people are going to suffer"? I'll tell you what......explain exactly HOW those "poor people" are going to suffer? I challenge YOU to come up with YOUR own thoughts on just HOW the Fair Tax is going to make people who PAY LITTLE TO NO TAXES NOW pay any more than they are already paying......which again is LITTLE TO NOTHING. Let's see how YOU answer that.

Before you spew out incorrect information again, educate yourself better about what you're trying to put down. You sound exactly like that Texas Senator that looked like a deer caught in headlights when he was asked to name ONE of Obama's accomplishments on National TV. I bet you've not even read the Fair Tax book, have you?



Jamie....... I heart you.


i could not have said it better, its hard to find conservative allies on this website, not to mention liberals are very prone to watching the news and instantly believing it.

[BobbyFresco]

This thread is a small example of how and why America is in such a state of separation....


And I'm also amazed by how some people, who deem themselves to be so supremely intelligent than others with their never ending condescending attitudes, can't express their views without insults.....:rolleyes:

[Lucky DAWG]

This thread is a small example of how and why America is in such a state of separation....


And I'm also amazed by how some people, who deem themselves to be so supremely intelligent than others with their never ending condescending attitudes, can't express their views without insults.....:rolleyes:




the guy was asking for it, Jamie just emberassed him.
he was trying to throw facts at me that were false, so he got his own medicine back.


Liberals are the exact same, you can't blame one side.




Its party politics, its always going to have its dirty mud slinging... thats part of the package.





and yes i could not agree more, i feel huge seperation between the parties / classes / races etc. in recent times. I wouldn't be surprised if some kind of revolution happened in the next 50 years.

[.::UNKNOWN::.]

Liberals are the exact same, you can't blame one side. i agree with everything but that statement.... he didn't blame a side he blamed people in general

[BobbyFresco]

the guy was asking for it, Jamie just emberassed him.
he was trying to throw facts at me that were false, so he got his own medicine back.

Liberals are the exact same, you can't blame one side.


Its party politics, its always going to have its dirty mud slinging... thats part of the package.



and yes i could not agree more, i feel huge seperation between the parties / classes / races etc. in recent times. I wouldn't be surprised if some kind of revolution happened in the next 50 years.



Having a constructive discussion and openly insulting someone and questioning their intellect are 2 distinctly different things......

I'm sorry but merely being a Republican does not, as GWB has proven time and time again, make one an omnipotent and or omniscient individual...

[Spektrewing386]

http://www.bills-soapbox.com/images/stewart-colbert-08-small.jpg

[BobbyFresco]

http://www.bills-soapbox.com/images/stewart-colbert-08-small.jpg



:D

[Lucky DAWG]

Having a constructive discussion and openly insulting someone and questioning their intellect are 2 distinctly different things......

I'm sorry but merely being a Republican does not, as GWB has proven time and time again, make one an omnipotent and or omniscient individual...

or JFK or Clinton... what are you getting at?



my point was that he was throwing stones so expect them back. ofcourse no one is perfect or omniscient, thats what i just said

[Lucky DAWG]

i agree with everything but that statement.... he didn't blame a side he blamed people in general


it was towards jamie and me...

i mean i dont care, same point made either way.
it doesn't matter we just have to respect that we have different opinions and thats really the end of it until one of us points out the others flaws in 2012 when we have seen either candidates term lol :lmfao:

[seniosoul]

**** Politics! ! ! Little Caesar gonna build an army and take over the world.

[Lucky DAWG]

**** Politics! ! ! Little Caesar gonna build an army and take over the world.


haha wtf!?

i have no idea what you just said, but its late and it made me laugh, reps

[tony]

he resembles so much characters like Hitler, Stalin, and Castro. Great public speakers with beautiful and inspiring rhetroic who come from the outside of the centralized government with new, fresh ideas who appear as "liberators"... but they really have agendas fueled with hate from a troubled background.





So whats his real agenda? Enslave white people? Call up his boys in Al Qaeda and let them know its open season? Lets be realistic.. what exactly has Obama done or said that translates to Hitler?

[Jaimecbr900]

This thread is a small example of how and why America is in such a state of separation....


And I'm also amazed by how some people, who deem themselves to be so supremely intelligent than others with their never ending condescending attitudes, can't express their views without insults.....:rolleyes:

Don't tip toe around it. If you have something to say to me, spit it out and don't choke on it. :rolleyes:

I called a spade a spade. Sue me.

I started this thread to get all of those Obama supporters to explain to me some of the things that I'm seeing. If we got off on tangents, then it's just another day on IA. Nothing different than any other thread. When I watch people acting like Obama is the Messiah and CRY when he gets the nomination of the Democratic party.......I don't understand why, so I asked. I knew there were plenty of Obama supporters here that could shed some light on the question.

Ask Tony if I disrespected him. Ask him. Why didn't I? Because he came with information that he'd obviously researched and thought about on his own. I would not have said anything to the other guy had he not spouted out completely incorrect information. Don't like that? Then maybe he should've researched his rebuttal a little more before posting it. If he wants to prove me wrong, he can. I've been proven wrong before, right in front of everyone. My arms didn't fall off. I'm still breathing. It happens. I actually learned something new each and every time.

Now, how about YOU enlighten us about YOUR thoughts on WHY Obama is the best candidate to lead the World's Most Powerful Nation. If not him, who and why?

[Total_Blender]

First of all, just WHERE do you suppose those good ole' "once-a-year" checks come from????? Let me give you a hint.......it's called a REFUND for a reason. Dur, durrrrr......:rolleyes: It's money that you've OVER paid. It's NOT "free" money. ?

I never said it was free money, I just said that the IRS sends checks (meaning refund checks) out once a year. If what ever "Fair Tax" organization takes over sending out the "refund" checks to those below the poverty line once a month, that would create a larger bureaucracy than the IRS would it not? Big Brother micromanaging the finances of the poor. :crazy:



Second, how many checks do you think that "Americans below poverty levels" get NOW????? You sir have no clue how things actually work. It sounds to me like you've been indoctrinated rather well into the Democratic way of life. ?

People on Welfare are getting state checks, and conservatives are all in a tizzy about that, for reasons you explain here:


Those "Conservatives" you incorrectly quote probably want people to stand on their own two feet rather than ask for hand-outs

So how can you have it both ways... monthly aid for the poor is bad on a state level and good on a federal level?

And the fair tax will hurt working class Americans who spend the majority of their income on goods and services. Not everyone is able to have savings and capital gains. When people are paying 30% more just to get by, those who invest and save the majority of their income will have a massive windfall.

Businesses will not be taxed on their purchases, but they will have to pay taxes on the health insurance and other benefits for their employees. And since people will be disposed not to buy new goods to avoid the tax, sellers will probably have to produce at lower volumes, which will increase price.

So the "fair tax" will actually be regressive on income. And you may say that the fair tax will encourage the re-use and resale of used goods (which will not be taxed) but the inherent value of used goods includes the taxes charged upon their purchase. It seems to me like the fair tax would stimulate underground markets where people produce and sell on the sly to evade taxation.

And it is also said that the fair tax will effectively tax illegal immigrants. So now every illegal immigrant who goes into Quik Trip and buys a cup of coffee is an American taxpayer. Would it not be reasonable then, that they recieve the same services from the government as other taxpayers?:lmfao:

And requiring businesses to keep records of all transactions for 6 years, have a seller's certificate, etc etc.... what business has the space and time to bother with all that?

I don't see how the fair tax would be a positive change really, its still just the government taking our money.... I have not read the book, but I have read articles both for and against from a variety of sources. :2cents:

[Jaimecbr900]

I never said it was free money, I just said that the IRS sends checks (meaning refund checks) out once a year. If what ever "Fair Tax" organization takes over sending out the "refund" checks to those below the poverty line once a month, that would create a larger bureaucracy than the IRS would it not? Big Brother micromanaging the finances of the poor. :crazy:

See, you just don't get it. So you are basically saying that some entity would have to be formed to send out "checks" and that entity will be larger in size than the IRS, which BTW employs more than 100,000 people NOW? Is that what you're saying? Because if it is, you're obviously not taking into consideration that out of the 100K+ people employeed by the IRS NOW, only a small portion of those 100K+ are employed to "cut" checks NOW. So if say it takes 10,000 people to cut a bizillion checks each year, why couldn't we have the same amount of people cut a bizillion checks next year? Using your logic, we would need a million people to cut a million checks. Why would we? :thinking: Do you realize that the IRS has MORE Investigative Agents, ie. the guys in the dark suits whose only purpose is to crawl up your rear end whenever they deem necessary, than the EPA, OSHA, and DEA.....yes, the D.E.A.....combined???? Regular Law Enforcement and Constitutional LAWS do not apply to the IRS. For example, virtually all laws pertaining to search and seizure, jury trial, and due process do NOT apply to the IRS. And this is the same system YOU people want to just leave alone and let be?????:thinking:



People on Welfare are getting state checks, and conservatives are all in a tizzy about that, for reasons you explain here:


So how can you have it both ways... monthly aid for the poor is bad on a state level and good on a federal level?

Once again you're merely perpetuating the same old myth that welfare recipients are just poor old destitute ghetto dwellers. Do you realize just how much FRAUD and ABUSE is being sucked out of Social welfare programs each and every day? Some studies have placed FRAUD as high as 30% or more. Which means that one out of every 3 people getting some sort of "public assistance" are getting it fraudulently. Which then begs the question.....if they are getting it by committing fraud, just WHO is paying for those people that are getting those "benefits"? People who PAY TAXES is the WHO.

In other words, you have people who are on public assistance for years....getting money, benefits, food stamps, healthcare, medicines, etc. at tax payers expense who do NOT PAY a dime INTO the system. How do I know they are NOT PAYING into the system? Because either A: the program they're getting benefits from doesn't pay IF they are gainfully employed, or B: They get MORE from those programs than if they did work, so they figure why bother, or C: They double dip and work for cash under the table. That's the reality of a large portion of our "welfare" system.

So all these same exact people that right NOW don't pay INTO the system, yet suck it dry......would then be paying atleast marginally into that same system due to the fact that people have to buy something sometime. When they do, they pay their share into the system. Same thing with illegal aliens, which BTW there is more than just Mexicans in that category;) . You no longer have to worry about paying people under the table. It becomes a moot point. Pay everyone what they've earned. You earn $100 for selling widgets, then you get the WHOLE $100 and then YOU decide how and when to spend it. Again, what is so wrong with that?


And the fair tax will hurt working class Americans who spend the majority of their income on goods and services. Not everyone is able to have savings and capital gains. When people are paying 30% more just to get by, those who invest and save the majority of their income will have a massive windfall.

Again, you don't get it. Please go read the book and then opinionate about this.

That same "once a month" check you were arguing about earlier is designed to pay for basic necessities based on your family size for such essentials as FOOD. So you get to KEEP YOUR ENTIRE PAYCHECK, get another check once a month to subsidize your bare essentials which is what "welfare" was designed to do after all, and you only pay WHEN and IF you buy other goods and services which let's YOU determine just how much YOU save and how much YOU don't.

Also, people won't be paying "30% MORE" of anything. You need to read the book, seriously. Just how much MORE do we pay now in order for the manufacturer, distributor, and finally the merchant to cover their EMPLOYEE and PAYROLL costs? It's called an embedded tax. In other words, if as a company you no longer had to PAY for FICA, Unemployment, Payroll taxes, Payroll services, etc.....how much LESS could you then be able to sell your widget for????? A TON. People don't realize just how expensive having a legit Payroll for your company is. It inflates your overhead unbelievably.

Why not instead of clouding market competition with overhead costs we let merchants compete on a level playing field. With the Fair Tax in place, mom and pop shops could now compete with bigger conglomerates because they wouldn't have the employment taxes and burdens putting them out of the market anymore, which in turn means what it always means when you let free market determine the price of any good or service.......lower pricing. This is how "embedded taxes" work and manipulate what we pay for everything TODAY. So you won't be paying "30% MORE" for anything, you'll just be paying 30% period.

Look at it this way: Take out your last paystub from last year. Look at the TOTAL amount YOU paid for income taxes. Let's use a round number just for giggles of $10k. Would you be so upset if you GOT TO KEEP that $10k and instead of paying $3 for a gallon of milk, you now had to pay $3.50???? Let's see, you get $10K more for doing nothing different and since you'd get a subsidy check for that $3.50 jug of milk YOU wouldn't pay for that either. So it's a win-win situation in my book. Do you see it differently? ;)



So the "fair tax" will actually be regressive on income. And you may say that the fair tax will encourage the re-use and resale of used goods (which will not be taxed) but the inherent value of used goods includes the taxes charged upon their purchase. It seems to me like the fair tax would stimulate underground markets where people produce and sell on the sly to evade taxation.

Which is different than what we have NOW how????? ;) Think about it....how many people do YOU know that cheat on their income taxes?

It is human nature to try and get something for nothing. That will never change.


And it is also said that the fair tax will effectively tax illegal immigrants. So now every illegal immigrant who goes into Quik Trip and buys a cup of coffee is an American taxpayer. Would it not be reasonable then, that they recieve the same services from the government as other taxpayers?:lmfao:

No, because there is no tax code or law that forgives ILLEGAL activity. So if you're here ILLEGALLY, merely "paying" taxes doesn't change the legality of your being here.

BTW, if you think for a minute that illegals are NOT getting free goods and services NOW.......I got a bridge I want to sell you.;)


And requiring businesses to keep records of all transactions for 6 years, have a seller's certificate, etc etc.... what business has the space and time to bother with all that?

I'm required now to keep every single transaction I make for the last 5 yrs. It would only mean 1 more year to me. I'm sure I'm not in the minority in this. Many businesses, due to regulations, are required to keep extensive long term records. No biggie. Nature of the beast.


I don't see how the fair tax would be a positive change really, its still just the government taking our money.... I have not read the book, but I have read articles both for and against from a variety of sources. :2cents:

Go read the whole book, seriously. Remember that some of the biggest proponents of the Fair Tax are the very people who's jobs would suddenly become expendable or no longer needed. ;)

[osnap]

he resembles so much characters like Hitler, Stalin, and Castro. Great public speakers with beautiful and inspiring rhetroic who come from the outside of the centralized government with new, fresh ideas who appear as "liberators"... but they really have agendas fueled with hate from a troubled background.



if history can teach us anything, its to avoid characters like Obama, i don't know how many times we need the same lesson again and again.
i hear this a lot, and i understand the general premise of the notion, but one thing still baffles me. Why is it that no one deems it possible to (and you put this quite well, Chase) speak with beautiful and inspiring rhetoric and introduce fresh ideas, while not simultaneously having some ominous agenda? I consider myself a somewhat eloquent, well-spoken individual, but I don't have some evil plan that utilizes that. I know thats a poor example, but I'm just saying... you can be a phenomenal speaker and an inspiration without simultaneously being the devil incarnate. :2cents:

[Jaimecbr900]

i hear this a lot, and i understand the general premise of the notion, but one thing still baffles me. Why is it that no one deems it possible to (and you put this quite well, Chase) speak with beautiful and inspiring rhetoric and introduce fresh ideas, while not simultaneously having some ominous agenda? I consider myself a somewhat eloquent, well-spoken individual, but I don't have some evil plan that utilizes that. I know thats a poor example, but I'm just saying... you can be a phenomenal speaker and an inspiration without simultaneously being the devil incarnate. :2cents:

That's actually a good point. Props. :goodjob:

I think the parallel is being made sometimes because those guys (the truly evil ones) sold the masses a bill of goods that only served a hidden agenda. They were able to do so partly BECAUSE they were so eloquent and charismatic. Sort of like a good salesman will sell ice to an Eskimo.

I still think you have a good point though. :goodjob:

[Lucky DAWG]

i hear this a lot, and i understand the general premise of the notion, but one thing still baffles me. Why is it that no one deems it possible to (and you put this quite well, Chase) speak with beautiful and inspiring rhetoric and introduce fresh ideas, while not simultaneously having some ominous agenda? I consider myself a somewhat eloquent, well-spoken individual, but I don't have some evil plan that utilizes that. I know thats a poor example, but I'm just saying... you can be a phenomenal speaker and an inspiration without simultaneously being the devil incarnate. :2cents:


thats the thing though, they win over the hearts of millions with all the fireworks of a great speech and memorable one liners that speak about glorious change. Which like you said can be a good thing within the hands of a truely good leader, JFK had good speeches and so did Reagan and i liked both those men's terms (for the most part).


but its just the fact with his church, his book, not wearing the flag, wanting to meet with terrorist leaders, his wife being so unpatriotic.... i'm not suggesting that will happen, but it looks so ominous with all of the signs pointing in that direction. You know what i'm saying?



All i'm saying is i think people need to learn more about Obama and what he has done, he has come out of the woodworks... passed on most votes in the Senate like Edwards pointed out and speaks little of policy.


I just hope America makes an informed decision on this one and learns from the past... i certainly don't think so, but by all means he could be the best President ever, i just have a bad feeling is my point and i think people should be aware of the possibilities

[osnap]

Jaime: yeah I totally understand where the parallels come from and I think they certainly aren't completely without merit. I think we're pretty much on the same page here for both sides of this particular factor.

Chase: I see where you're coming from. I disagree with certain parts, but hey thats what makes people different. Haha. I'll just point out how my opinion differs, but I'm not saying that I'm right and you're wrong or anything.


but its just the fact with his church, his book, not wearing the flag, wanting to meet with terrorist leaders, his wife being so unpatriotic.... i'm not suggesting that will happen, but it looks so ominous with all of the signs pointing in that direction. You know what i'm saying? His church I can understand being threatening, so i get that. The rest though, I'm gonna disagree with. His book touches on a lot of racial issues and whatnot, sure, but that was his experience growing up. Thats his story, and he has every right to tell it. Sure he gets angry in parts, but frankly probably rightfully so imo. i just think its a non-issue. As for not wearing a lapel pin, do we REALLY think thats an issue? It's a pin. Seriously. Wanting to meet with terrorist leaders? Damn right. That doesn't mean concede to them or sit down and have tea and a lovely chat, but pretending like they don't exist is not going to solve problems. He's said he doesn't plan to meet with Hamas, which was most peoples' biggest gripe. I think its progressive. As for his wife being unpatriotic, I suppose you're referring to that ONE quote that was taken WAY out of context and distorted. It was a poor choice of words, but it was blown waaaay out of proportion.

Regardless, that last statement you made is way respectable. Guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

[tony]

An empty suit huh?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/05/obamas-in-control-no-more_n_105407.html

Lets see the Republican Party vow not to take donations from lobbyists. After 2 days of our nominee we get this, THAT is leadership people, something McCain has not shown since becoming the Presumptive Nominee.

[Jaimecbr900]

An empty suit huh?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/05/obamas-in-control-no-more_n_105407.html

Lets see the Republican Party vow not to take donations from lobbyists. After 2 days of our nominee we get this, THAT is leadership people, something McCain has not shown since becoming the Presumptive Nominee.


I know you remember......."NO....New.....TAXES!!!!....." Right? ;) :D

This is where experience would help him. Without much of a track record, people remember, "NO NEW TAXES...." and they take it with a grain of salt.

[Nerdsrock22]

Not from lobbyists...


But certainly from the people that represent those interests.


"State lobbyists and non-wage-earning spouses of lobbyists and lobbying firm employees have contributed $115,163 to Obama's campaign through March 20, according to the center.

People in the oil and gas industries have given $222,309 to Obama. He received $528,765 from the pharmaceutical and health industry, making him the largest recipient of the sector's largesse."

Source (http://www.newhouse.com/obama-takes-donations-from-persons-in-groups-he-opposes.html)

Oops. :thinking:

[Total_Blender]

Whoever the next president is needs to settle our debt with China, I think we all can agree on that lol.

[tony]

Not from lobbyists...


But certainly from the people that represent those interests.


"State lobbyists and non-wage-earning spouses of lobbyists and lobbying firm employees have contributed $115,163 to Obama's campaign through March 20, according to the center.

People in the oil and gas industries have given $222,309 to Obama. He received $528,765 from the pharmaceutical and health industry, making him the largest recipient of the sector's largesse."

Source (http://www.newhouse.com/obama-takes-donations-from-persons-in-groups-he-opposes.html)

Oops. :thinking:

Hmm.. I work for AT&T and have donated to the Obama Campaign, going by the formula used in your source "People in the Telecom Industry have contributed to Obama's campaign." See how easy that is? By no means is Obama perfect but at least applaud the man for the effort and the leadership.. something McCain cannot do.

Furthermore from the start of his campaign Obama has raised well over $250 Million, adding up what you have quoted here even if that was the case his special interest donations add up to .3% of his campaign. My figures simply HAVE to be wrong because Barack only claims not to take money from Federal Lobbyists and PAC's..

[tony]

I know you remember......."NO....New.....TAXES!!!!....." Right? ;) :D

This is where experience would help him. Without much of a track record, people remember, "NO NEW TAXES...." and they take it with a grain of salt.

I'm SOOOOO glad you bring that up because I was pondering something Mike posted yesterday.




THe clinton era prospered because of BUSH SR



Why did the Clinton Era prosper due to Bush Sr.? Because he RAISED TAXES. So I see people sit here and complain because Obama plans to raise taxes but its the same damn people that want to stay in Iraq. How the hell do you think you pay for a war? With hopes and dreams? The policy of borrowing from China to fund a war in Iraq is far outdated but if you want to stay there expect to open up your pockets.

[Nerdsrock22]

I'm not saying that his campaign was soley funded by special interest, only that his stance against special interest is at best misguided and at worst a downright lie. Furthermore, his promise to not take money from oil companies is little more than a campaign for the "stupid vote" as that practice is illegal anyways. So yes, its true, but its true for every other political incumbent as well.

[CobraClone]

i hear this a lot, and i understand the general premise of the notion, but one thing still baffles me. Why is it that no one deems it possible to (and you put this quite well, Chase) speak with beautiful and inspiring rhetoric and introduce fresh ideas, while not simultaneously having some ominous agenda? I consider myself a somewhat eloquent, well-spoken individual, but I don't have some evil plan that utilizes that. I know thats a poor example, but I'm just saying... you can be a phenomenal speaker and an inspiration without simultaneously being the devil incarnate. :2cents:


I think you have missed the point.

Noone is saying he must have some ominous agenda because he speaks so well. It is his background and the people he has associated with (for many years until just recently distancing himself from them to further his campaign), that are cause for concern.

[Lucky DAWG]

Jaime: yeah I totally understand where the parallels come from and I think they certainly aren't completely without merit. I think we're pretty much on the same page here for both sides of this particular factor.

Chase: I see where you're coming from. I disagree with certain parts, but hey thats what makes people different. Haha. I'll just point out how my opinion differs, but I'm not saying that I'm right and you're wrong or anything.

His church I can understand being threatening, so i get that. The rest though, I'm gonna disagree with. His book touches on a lot of racial issues and whatnot, sure, but that was his experience growing up. Thats his story, and he has every right to tell it. Sure he gets angry in parts, but frankly probably rightfully so imo. i just think its a non-issue. As for not wearing a lapel pin, do we REALLY think thats an issue? It's a pin. Seriously. Wanting to meet with terrorist leaders? Damn right. That doesn't mean concede to them or sit down and have tea and a lovely chat, but pretending like they don't exist is not going to solve problems. He's said he doesn't plan to meet with Hamas, which was most peoples' biggest gripe. I think its progressive. As for his wife being unpatriotic, I suppose you're referring to that ONE quote that was taken WAY out of context and distorted. It was a poor choice of words, but it was blown waaaay out of proportion.

Regardless, that last statement you made is way respectable. Guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens.




i agree with everything you said except the bolded.



Sure the president has every right to do what he wants, but when he is the leader of the world's strongest nation... he is to be scrutinized to the most when trying to see who we will elect, when his personal views threaten my world i live in then its my problem. Something that is a deep rooted problem in his past that has obviously affected the way he has grown up is bound to show through in his decision making, as will McCain's years as a POW will most likely affect military decisions, the history of the candidate is important.

You may try to forget your childhood, but it doesn't leave you, its who you are.



Also i have a HUGE problem with him not wearing an american flag. I personally think it stands for a lot more then just being simply a pin, a picture, or a piece of fabric on a pole.



Symbols mean a lot to me, and i hope it does to most others in this country whos way of life is protected by those who seek to destroy it

[BB6dohcvtec]

i agree with everything you said except the bolded.



Sure the president has every right to do what he wants, but when he is the leader of the world's strongest nation... he is to be scrutinized to the most when trying to see who we will elect, when his personal views threaten my world i live in then its my problem. Something that is a deep rooted problem in his past that has obviously affected the way he has grown up is bound to show through in his decision making, as will McCain's years as a POW will most likely affect military decisions, the history of the candidate is important.

You may try to forget your childhood, but it doesn't leave you, its who you are.



Also i have a HUGE problem with him not wearing an american flag. I personally think it stands for a lot more then just being simply a pin, a picture, or a piece of fabric on a pole.



Symbols mean a lot to me, and i hope it does to most others in this country whos way of life is protected by those who seek to destroy it


symbols mean alot to you huh? and it should mean alot to me?? well it really doesn't bother me. you call wearing an american pin a symbol?? A symbol of what? patriotism? A symbol of patriotism is doing what you feel is necessary to lead your county, city, state, and/or country in a better direction, not by wearing some pin that anybody can wear with a simple push and plug.

[BanginJimmy]

A symbol of patriotism is doing what you feel is necessary to lead your county, city, state, and/or country in a better direction, not by wearing some pin that anybody can wear with a simple push and plug.


I agree 100% with this. The lapel pin is a non-issue to me.


On your other statements though. You have to look at where he came from and see the anger from his book. Then look at the people he has surrounded himself with for the last 20+ years. Wright, Ayers, Farakhan, and how many others that we dont know of yet, or were not as vocal and nationally known? You have to look at the whole picture of him and not just his public appearance. Every politician has a squeeky clean public face.

[Total_Blender]

x2 Dubya and Cheney both wear the pin and they have F***ed America up big time. Patriotism is not about what you wear its about what you do.

[BABY J]

Subscribing --- just lurking for now, but don't make me shut this 1 down. *smiling*

[Lucky DAWG]

symbols mean alot to you huh? and it should mean alot to me?? well it really doesn't bother me. you call wearing an american pin a symbol?? A symbol of what? patriotism? A symbol of patriotism is doing what you feel is necessary to lead your county, city, state, and/or country in a better direction, not by wearing some pin that anybody can wear with a simple push and plug.




exactly, and the flag represents that.



so why can't he put it on???
does he get a bad rash or something when he wears it?


i mean if you can give me one legit reason then i'll agree

[osnap]

You hit it on the head, its the rash thing. Cmon dude, cut him some slack - that sh!t is both itchy AND embarrassing.

[tony]

exactly, and the flag represents that.



so why can't he put it on???
does he get a bad rash or something when he wears it?


i mean if you can give me one legit reason then i'll agree

On the Lapel Pin Obama said:

“Somebody noticed I wasn’t wearing a flag lapel pin and I told folks, well you know what? I haven’t probably worn that pin in a very long time. I wore it right after 9/11. But after a while, you start noticing people wearing a lapel pin, but not acting very patriotic. Not voting to provide veterans with resources that they need. Not voting to make sure that disability payments were coming out on time."

“My attitude is that I’m less concerned about what you’re wearing on your lapel than what’s in your heart. And you show your patriotism by how you treat your fellow Americans, especially those who served. You show your patriotism by being true to our values and our ideals and that’s what we have to lead with is our values and our ideals.”

[BobbyFresco]

I agree 100% with this. The lapel pin is a non-issue to me.


On your other statements though. You have to look at where he came from and see the anger from his book. Then look at the people he has surrounded himself with for the last 20+ years. Wright, Ayers, Farakhan, and how many others that we dont know of yet, or were not as vocal and nationally known? You have to look at the whole picture of him and not just his public appearance. Every politician has a squeeky clean public face.


Of all the people you mentioned that Obama has supposedly associated with, NOT ONE is of any notable importance because of legality issues.....

How many of our presidents and candidates running for president have been linked to criminals...?

Guiliani definitely was.....
Clinton was....
Reagan was....with terrorists who are either now on our radar or we've already gotten rid of...
Bush the 1st was as well......


So, it's more of a concern for some of you that he's had dealings with religious and political leaders rather than terrorists, arms sellers, drug runners, and dictators...?



Also while the issue at hand is about who interacts with whom...wouldn't it be safe to say that if the U.S hadn't had a hand in back door dealings that perhaps we would not have such a piss poor image with a lot of the world today...? Wouldn't it stand to reason that if we hadn't trained people and then flipped the script and yanked the chain on one time under the table "allies" that perhaps events like 9/11 wouldn't have happened?



People keep pointing out that Obama is a risk because he wants to sit down and open dialogue with terrorist leaders but isn't that better than getting in bed with them? Isn't wanting to be proactive as opposed to reactive an admirable quality?

[Jaimecbr900]

People keep pointing out that Obama is a risk because he wants to sit down and open dialogue with terrorist leaders but isn't that better than getting in bed with them? Isn't wanting to be proactive as opposed to reactive an admirable quality?


Absolutely NOT.

That is like saying that a Parent would be better served to give in when their child throws a tantrum. That is what "sitting down with terrorists" amounts to.....giving in to THEIR tantrums. All that shows is that if you want the U.S. to sit down with you and chit chat over crumpets then all you have to do is bomb a few trains and fly a few airplanes killing thousands of INNOCENT citizens. :rolleyes:

This is one of his "strategies" that is as short sighted as blinders.

[BobbyFresco]

Absolutely NOT.

That is like saying that a Parent would be better served to give in when their child throws a tantrum. That is what "sitting down with terrorists" amounts to.....giving in to THEIR tantrums. All that shows is that if you want the U.S. to sit down with you and chit chat over crumpets then all you have to do is bomb a few trains and fly a few airplanes killing thousands of INNOCENT citizens. :rolleyes:

This is one of his "strategies" that is as short sighted as blinders.



Keeping in mind that past presidents more or less trained, armed, and had an influence in some of our present enemies coming into power, I don't think that speaking diplomatically can be any worse of an approach......

[Jaimecbr900]

Keeping in mind that past presidents more or less trained, armed, and had an influence in some of our present enemies coming into power, I don't think that speaking diplomatically can be any worse of an approach......

So does that mean that we should exterminate all Muslims because they are following their "commands" from Allah himself???? In other words, what's that got to do with the price of tea in China? So what if yesterday they were our friend and today they're not. Hell, Iran was fine until Khomeini took over too.....look at them now. We "sat down" with them to break bread back in the 70's many times with Pahlavi. Did that guarantee that 10yrs later they were our sworn enemy? Nope. Why? Cause $hit happens. Khomeini led a revolution, and voila there you are. Friends no more.

So, we should sit down with all the TERRORISTS and have some tea to discuss what WE can do to apeace them enough not to send the next guy trying to become a martyr to KILL ALL OF US???? On what level does that make any sense?

Again, this really boils down to the "let's give little junior whatever the hell he wants just to keep him quiet in the store" mentality. Much like parents that deal with their children that way, the problem NEVER gets better. It only gets far far worse.

[BobbyFresco]

So does that mean that we should exterminate all Muslims because they are following their "commands" from Allah himself???? In other words, what's that got to do with the price of tea in China? So what if yesterday they were our friend and today they're not. Hell, Iran was fine until Khomeini took over too.....look at them now. We "sat down" with them to break bread back in the 70's many times with Pahlavi. Did that guarantee that 10yrs later they were our sworn enemy? Nope. Why? Cause $hit happens. Khomeini led a revolution, and voila there you are. Friends no more.

So, we should sit down with all the TERRORISTS and have some tea to discuss what WE can do to apeace them enough not to send the next guy trying to become a martyr to KILL ALL OF US???? On what level does that make any sense?

Again, this really boils down to the "let's give little junior whatever the hell he wants just to keep him quiet in the store" mentality. Much like parents that deal with their children that way, the problem NEVER gets better. It only gets far far worse.



I totally understand what you're saying and on this one we're going to have to agree to disagree amicably....good points made though...

[Jaimecbr900]

I totally understand what you're saying and on this one we're going to have to agree to disagree amicably....good points made though...

That's cool. :goodjob:

[BanginJimmy]

Of all the people you mentioned that Obama has supposedly associated with, NOT ONE is of any notable importance because of legality issues.....

Not any single one means a whole lot to me. But look at the full picture. How many people with the same hate for white people and America can a person associate with before people realize he also shares those views?


How many of our presidents and candidates running for president have been linked to criminals...?

Guiliani definitely was.....
Clinton was....
Reagan was....with terrorists who are either now on our radar or we've already gotten rid of...
Bush the 1st was as well......

Most of them had friends dealing with white collar issues. Obama has at least one of those too. We are talking about an unrepentant terrorist, Ayers. Nation of Islam leader, Farakhan, who has also openly announced his hate for Jews, and whites.



So, it's more of a concern for some of you that he's had dealings with religious and political leaders rather than terrorists, arms sellers, drug runners, and dictators...?

Religious and political fanatics is what you mean. None of the men around Obama have a positive influance on those that follow them. They teach or preach hate.




[Also while the issue at hand is about who interacts with whom...wouldn't it be safe to say that if the U.S hadn't had a hand in back door dealings that perhaps we would not have such a piss poor image with a lot of the world today...? Wouldn't it stand to reason that if we hadn't trained people and then flipped the script and yanked the chain on one time under the table "allies" that perhaps events like 9/11 wouldn't have happened?



we endorsed some of those in our Proxy wars with Iran and the USSR back in the 80's. We had been attacked before that time though because of our support for Isreal. No matter what the US does in any other area, as long as we continue to support Isreal we will be an enemy of those fanatics.






People keep pointing out that Obama is a risk because he wants to sit down and open dialogue with terrorist leaders but isn't that better than getting in bed with them? Isn't wanting to be proactive as opposed to reactive an admirable quality?

Obama is a risk because he is naive. If we are to believe that he didnt know the type of people that he was around for 20 years he is going to be embarassed in front of the world by the tyrants of the warld when he meets with them with no pre-conditions.

[tony]

So does that mean that we should exterminate all Muslims because they are following their "commands" from Allah himself???? In other words, what's that got to do with the price of tea in China? So what if yesterday they were our friend and today they're not. Hell, Iran was fine until Khomeini took over too.....look at them now. We "sat down" with them to break bread back in the 70's many times with Pahlavi. Did that guarantee that 10yrs later they were our sworn enemy? Nope. Why? Cause $hit happens. Khomeini led a revolution, and voila there you are. Friends no more.

So, we should sit down with all the TERRORISTS and have some tea to discuss what WE can do to apeace them enough not to send the next guy trying to become a martyr to KILL ALL OF US???? On what level does that make any sense?

Again, this really boils down to the "let's give little junior whatever the hell he wants just to keep him quiet in the store" mentality. Much like parents that deal with their children that way, the problem NEVER gets better. It only gets far far worse.

Just wondering what Iran has done lately to classify them as terrorists.

[Jaimecbr900]

Just wondering what Iran has done lately to classify them as terrorists.

Ummm, Tony.....having a bad day?? :D

That's two separate paragraphs. I was showing how we were friends with Iran one time and now we're not. THEN, I mentioned about sitting down with Terrorists.....not that Iran is one of those coming to the table.....:D ;)

[tony]

Ummm, Tony.....having a bad day?? :D

That's two separate paragraphs. I was showing how we were friends with Iran one time and now we're not. THEN, I mentioned about sitting down with Terrorists.....not that Iran is one of those coming to the table.....:D ;)


lol Yeah man, its the heat and humidity.. sorry about that

[ShooterMcGavin]

in short, we're fvcked...esp if he gets hillary as a running mate...

[seniosoul]

Little Ceasar gonna own all you Ol I love to chat about politcs cause boutta get drafted to RINES and get merked up and be in the bunker killin protoss... alien, reptAIlien, all up in the hymalayeens, all man I'm just saying.. ole brainwashed by television and so brainwashed that brainwashing is like invisible grip locking
http://www.nightlifeforyou.com/images/Little-Ceasar%27s.gif

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a317/noseferatu/For_the_Horde_.jpg