Marc Gene has a blowover at the Le Mans test day today in Peugeot 908

[EJ25RUN]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSsorp6F36s

An event like this happened at Monza and im wondering if teams should come up with flaps that have gyros which would sense a car doing this and open up to help get the car back down.

Simular to what they have in Nascar only electronic.

[StraightSix]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSsorp6F36s

An event like this happened at Monza and im wondering if teams should come up with flaps that have gyros which would sense a car doing this and open up to help get the car back down.

Simular to what they have in Nascar only electronic.

The problem with using gyros is that it would be way too tempting for the system to be adapted for stability control. I doubt the governing bodies would approve any electronic system.

Blow overs should be correctable through proper aero engineering.

Ooops. Probably should have watched the video first, lol. To me it looks like something got the rear of the car airborn and from there things unfolded.

I was thinking that this was a similar occurance as what Mercedes dealt with at Le Mans in the 1990's with the CLK-GTR where the car basically became an airplane wing.

I'm thinking that if the car hadn't gotten a little help from the rumble strips to get airborn in the first place, it likely wouldn't have blown over.

[EJ25RUN]

The problem with using gyros is that it would be way too tempting for the system to be adapted for stability control. I doubt the governing bodies would approve any electronic system.

Blow overs should be correctable through proper aero engineering.

Ooops. Probably should have watched the video first, lol. To me it looks like something got the rear of the car airborn and from there things unfolded.

I was thinking that this was a similar occurance as what Mercedes dealt with at Le Mans in the 1990's with the CLK-GTR where the car basically became an airplane wing.

I'm thinking that if the car hadn't gotten a little help from the rumble strips to get airborn in the first place, it likely wouldn't have blown over.

I can see what you are saying about the gyros, imnot sure that idea would even work in a wind tunnel or in real life, im just going over what an active system would be but like you said, the possibility of unfair stabability comes in to play.

One thing i wanna say....that camera angle misses almost everything we need to see.

Im pretty sure that engineers are smartenough to come up with something tohelp this from happening but, i dont know what.

[StraightSix]

The problem was pretty well addressed after the Mercedes incidents. They had a two cars blow over during Le Mans practice, one of those cars was rebuilt and then raced. The rebuilt car blew over again. There have been others as well. Bill Auberlin had a blow over in the BMW LMP at Road Atlanta, and a Porsche 911 GT1 also blew over at Road Atlanta.

Upon investigation, it was found that the flat bottom of the race car contributed significantly to aerodynamics favorable for a blow over. After that the "dive planes" on the front of race cars were added to help keep the front end planted. So far, those have worked fairly well.

The biggest problem is that engineers aren't able to predict every situation that can occur. I suppose that some sort of system of flaps might be implemented that could significantly increase drag when the car spins. Oh, it might also be useful to mention that on a car that uses aero for downforce that once the car has about 20 degrees of rotation relative to a forward vector, the aero aids are useless.

I agree that camera angle is really bad for trying to determine what actually happened at the beginning of the incident.

[Cool Cat Racing]

Unfortunately there really isn't much you can do once the front comes up for whatever reason. It cold hit something or simply lift over a hill and you're screwed from there. Then the bottom becomes a giant wing and flips the car.

[StraightSix]

^^ Yup. I think that what caused the Auberlin blow over at Road Atlanta. His happened in between T5 and T6, and there's a slight hill. The car gets a little light and the wind gusts just right and whammo - roller coaster loop.

It really looks like in the case of the Peugot that the car got sideways before the apex of the turn and the back end was lift off the ground from the gators. But, it's such a crappy camera angle that I'm just speculating.

[Elbow]

His happened on the back straight where the Porsche did on the old hill, they took the hill down on the back straight ^

The Mercedes team added dive planes to the front of the CLR and still had a problem.

[revsk8erdude]

Then the bottom becomes a giant wing and flips the car.

so build a wing on the front to balance it out...

:rolleyes:

[StraightSix]

His happened on the back straight where the Porsche did on the old hill, they took the hill down on the back straight ^

The Mercedes team added dive planes to the front of the CLR and still had a problem.

Are we talking about the same section of track? Auberlen's happened in the short shute between 5 and 6. I'm used to the back staright being the section of track from 7 to 10. There was a Porsche 911 GT1 that blew over between 7 and 10 way back in the day, I think 1998 or 1999, before the track was reconfirgured and 10a and 10b added.


so build a wing on the front to balance it out...

It isn't that easy. Any wings that are added are going to create more drag. The front splitter on the cars provides all the downforce needed to for handling, so a front wing would be overkill. The best solution to the problem has been dive planes similar to what Mercedes added to the CLK-GTRs.

[Elbow]

Yeah, Bill flipped the BMW on the same back straight hump not between 5 and 6. The Porsche flipped was 1998, and 10A and 10B were there then.

And the dive planes on the CLR's failed as well lol. BUT that does seem to be the best solution like you said without killing the car.

[Frög]

REPS!

Edit: SB, ill get ya later!!

[Cool Cat Racing]

The problem with any kind of aero aid built to keep the car from flipping is the angle of attack of the wing or dive plane. Once the car lifts up a bit the affect is diminished and the bottom of the car acts as a much larger wing than anything else on the car and the car goes over. There really isn't anything you can do to prevent that other than keep the nose on the ground. If it lifts because of a gator or debris or a sharp hill crest then you're going over, simple as that. The flaps on Nascar only spoil the air going over it to prevent as much lift but they can still go over and their bottoms aren't near the same as most LM cars. Its a part of racing with cars like that and I honestly don't see a way to end it, just prevent it in some situations.

[StraightSix]

Yeah, Bill flipped the BMW on the same back straight hump not between 5 and 6.

I stand corrected, then. I found some video of Auberlen's 2000 blow over and sure enough that was the back straight. I don't know why I was convinced that it happened between 5 and 6, but that happens every once in a while.

CCR - I agree completely. There are just too many variable at work to be able to effectively eliminate the possibility of blow overs. The ACO changed it's aero rules for LMP cars after 1998, and I think that has helped a lot.

[EJ25RUN]

so build a wing on the front to balance it out...

:rolleyes:

thats not gonna help,if you have to much drag developed at the front, the rear will give out to easily.