$10 A Gallon , What IF? (Yes another Gas thread)

[Vteckidd]

What if gas cost $10 a gallon?
Forget pizza delivery. And cheap airfares. And bottled water. In fact, forget a way of life that looks much like today's. But would that be so bad?
By Shirley Skeel
Editor's note: This is one in an occasional series of financial what-ifs.


In four years, U.S. gas prices have doubled to more than $3.70 a gallon, and crude oil has tripled to around $125 a barrel. Allowing for inflation, that's higher than prices were during the 1978–83 oil shock that triggered a recession and sky-high interest rates. But . . .
What if gas cost $10 a gallon?
Thousands of truckers would go bankrupt. Airplanes would sit idle in hangars. Restaurants and stores would shut down. Car-pooling, hybrid vehicles, scooters and inline skates would swing into vogue. And telecommuting, rooftop vegetable gardens, home cooking and recycling would proliferate.

Yes, it would be painful. At $10 a gallon, filling a Ford Explorer could cost $225. Even gassing up a Honda Civic could set you back $132.

And suddenly the bus wouldn't look so bad. A large recession, not a depression

According to Todd Hale, a senior vice president for consumer researcher Nielsen, at $10 a gallon, the average family's gas bill would leap from 16% of its retail spending to about 40%. People would drive less, yes. But many have to drive to work or the supermarket, and they'd cough up the cash -- screaming all the way -- and cut back elsewhere.
Businesses and farmers, meantime, would be squeezed as the costs of transport, petrochemical fertilizers and plastics rose. If an oil shock came quickly, sending gas to $10 a gallon and oil to roughly $350 a barrel, the chain reaction of spiraling prices and sliced consumer demand would hit us hard.


"It would be a large recession, not a depression," says Michael Englund, the chief economist for Action Economics in Boulder, Colo. That would mean tight budgets and unemployment until the economy adapted and growth returned.


Here are some likely effects:

Consumer spending on eating out, clothing, electronics, vacations and other little luxuries would fall sharply. A Nielsen study found that even at recent gas prices, 41% of consumers were eating out less. In total, 18% of those surveyed were cutting spending to a "great degree." That would bruise companies such as Applebee's, Macy's, Gap, Best Buy and others. But discount retailers, particularly those selling food and gas, could do relatively well. Think Costco, Wal-Mart and McDonald's.
We'd see "a lot of parked planes," says Bill Swelbar, an air transport engineer for the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. The U.S. airline industry pays out $465 million in fuel costs for every $1 rise in oil. At $350-a-barrel oil, the industry would pay more than $100 billion extra, almost as much as last year's total airfare sales. Even if airlines ratcheted up fares 50%, half of their airplanes would be grounded because they'd be too expensive to fly, Swelbar reckons.
Many independent truckers, who pay for their own fuel, would go bankrupt as their costs soared and shippers switched to barges and trains. Taxis and FedEx would be strictly for the well-heeled. And home pizza deliveries would cease. Pizza delivery drivers also pay for their own gas. "It'd be brutal," says Joseph Miller, an assistant manager at a Domino's Pizza in Seattle. "I would think we wouldn't have any drivers."
Food prices could jump by a third or more, experts estimate. About 80 cents of the $4.50 retail cost of a box of cornflakes goes to transport it, says Dan Basse, the president of AgResource, a Chicago research company. On top of that, there's the cost of fertilizers to grow the corn and diesel for farm equipment. In 2005, transportation and energy made up 8.5% of all retail food costs, but energy was far cheaper then. As $10 gas pushed up food prices, pinched consumers would give up pricey fresh meat and vegetables for cheap pastas and oils. Ranchers and dairies with energy-hungry milking barns would struggle. And cities might sprout to life as people planted vegetable gardens on their roofs and balconies and in vacant lots.
Plastics for appliances, packaging, pacemakers and myriad other products would jump in price as the natural gas that plastic is made with rose in value alongside oil. Bill Wood, the president of Mountaintop Economics and Research in Massachusetts, says shoppers would have a choice: "Paper or paper?" Small plastic bottles of water would disappear. Glass and metal containers would make a comeback. And recycling would explode. Families might even have nine bins in the hall to separate their trash, as they do in Japan, where consumer recycling tops 90%.

Prediction: $200 oil, $5 gas
Economists say oil prices could continue to surge in the next two years, with prices as high as $5.60 a gallon at the gas pump possible.


As drivers began to switch to 100-mile-per-gallon plug-in hybrid cars (already expected to launch by 2010), the electricity grid could come under strain. Theoretically, if everyone had one and plugged it in at night, the grid could handle 84% of the nation's car fleet. But to avoid the risk of city brownouts, the grid capacity would have to rise. Solar, wave and wind power would ramp up. Giant solar thermal power plants, which use mirrors to concentrate the sun's energy, would be built. But in the rush to get power, we'd probably also step up the use of cheap, dirty coal (50% of our electricity generation now). Even nuclear power (21%) could be considered anew.
Resistance to drilling for oil in Alaska's Arctic National Wildlife Refuge and off California would shrink. Environmentalists might stand their ground. But as James Williams, an energy economist for WTRG Economics in Arkansas, says, "Let's put it this way: Y'all wanna drive?" Oil reserves in both areas are thought to be more than 10 billion barrels, double the proven reserves in Texas. That would help feed America's 21-million-barrel-a-day appetite.

**Page 2**

After the hurt, some benefits
There'd be other ramifications, too. The federal government's deficit would balloon as it paid for energy incentives and social welfare. We could even see civil unrest as the poor scrambled to survive.

Suburbanites would crowd into urban town houses to avoid costly commutes, and working from home would become common. Eventually, public transportation might even improve.
Some of these things, such as small cars and excellent public transportation, are already entrenched in Europe and Japan. Gas prices there are the equivalent of $8 to $10 a gallon, largely because of high taxes. They live with it. We could, too.
In the longer term, we might even be better off.
As the economy adjusted to functioning with new energy sources and more-efficient energy use, jobs in engineering, science, alternative energy and conservation would boom.

$200 oil, $5 gas coming soon?
Matthew Simmons, the founder of investment bank Simmons & Company International in Houston, says he thinks a good slice of the hundreds of billions of dollars that would flow to oil-producing nations would filter back to the U.S. He believes the oil industry infrastructure is aging and America would be called on to help.

"We'd have a more engineer, blue-collar, scientific world, versus the Starbucks, high-tech business that we've been in," he says. Not to mention that America's Achilles' heel -- its dependency on foreign oil for 60% of its needs -- would finally have a remedy. A painful one, but effective. Will gas cost $10 a gallon anytime soon?

It's unlikely, though short-term expectations of $4 or even $5 gas this year are increasingly common.

But most oil specialists believe that in the near term, $10 gas couldn't happen -- or that if oil hit $350 a barrel through some Middle East disaster, it would be short-lived. They say demand would fall sharply, bringing oil prices back down. Adam Sieminski, the chief energy economist with Deutsche Bank in Washington, D.C., puts the probability at less than 3%.


Richard Heinberg, a senior fellow at the nonprofit Post Carbon Institute in Sebastopol, Calif., disagrees. He believes it could happen within five years (of course, $10 likely would be worth less then).
More than half of the world's oil producers, including the U.S., Britain, Mexico, Venezuela and Russia, are seeing production decline, Heinberg says. Meanwhile, demand is growing at 1.5% to 2% a year. Heinberg says the OPEC countries need their reserves to meet booming demand at home and that at some point, oil will become scarce.

The result: Prices will shoot up.
Published May 16, 2008

Saw this on HT, interesting read

[eViLMunkey]

damm... good thing I live 2 miles from my work.. and if it just cost $115.00 to fill my tank at $4.59 a gal then damn, time to get an electric car (plug-n-play vehicle).

[Miranda]

If you guys really think that oil is gonna last, you're dreaming...

Peak Oil is a reality, and we're probably getting ready to see it. I wouldn't be surprised if it happens by the end of this decade.

[eViLMunkey]

I could see it putting a huge impact on atlanta due to it being a spread out city vs say new york or boston where it's easier to walk to where you need to go. the closest store to my house is like 2 miles which isn't bad a full tank right now lasts me 2.5 weeks

[nreggie454]

Hopefully before that happens, we will find a more efficient way to refine the huge quantities of shale that is all around America.

[Ran]

Scary stuff to say the least.

[DieselNuts]

I need to get a bike w/the quickness

[Miranda]

Hopefully before that happens, we will find a more efficient way to refine the huge quantities of shale that is all around America.
Maybe this is the future:

http://www.popsci.com/files/imagecache/article_image_large/files/articles/petridish.jpg


Breeding the Oil Bug

Biologists can now create organisms that have never before existed—including designer bacteria that turn sugar into fuel ..

It could be an aerial photo of an oil spill: liquid spheres pooling, oozing, dwarfing a bedraggled landscape. I half expect to zoom in on poisoned seal pups or waterbirds dragging their oil-soaked feathers. But the scene is microscopic. The “landscape” is made of E. coli. And what’s happening is exactly the opposite of what it seems. The little bugs aren’t drowning in fuel. They’re making it.


continued at... http://www.popsci.com/environment/article/2008-04/breeding-oil-bug

[nreggie454]

Maybe this is the future:

http://www.popsci.com/files/imagecache/article_image_large/files/articles/petridish.jpg


Breeding the Oil Bug

Biologists can now create organisms that have never before existed—including designer bacteria that turn sugar into fuel ..

It could be an aerial photo of an oil spill: liquid spheres pooling, oozing, dwarfing a bedraggled landscape. I half expect to zoom in on poisoned seal pups or waterbirds dragging their oil-soaked feathers. But the scene is microscopic. The “landscape” is made of E. coli. And what’s happening is exactly the opposite of what it seems. The little bugs aren’t drowning in fuel. They’re making it.


continued at... http://www.popsci.com/environment/article/2008-04/breeding-oil-bug
Heard about that, too. Either way, I bet/hope scientists are scrambling for ways to make both processes more efficient.

[Motivation]

I don't see how the bus is going to help as stated in OP... They are just going to pass the charge to the passengers so you are still going to be paying for it, and you don't know what kind of crazy person is sitting beside you....

[Miranda]

I tell you what... as cool as pure electric might be... I think there are too many of us that are attached to our turbos... if there would be a way that we could hold on to a liquid fuel solution, it'd make a lot of people happy...

I miss my turbo... :(

[Motivation]

Thing is if you buy an electric car, how long would you have to drive it to actually see it paying for itself? If prices are too high, then it's not really going to that cost efficient... People only look at prices at the pump but got to look at the money you got to put up front for a new car...

[Brett]

Yeah I read that yesterday on MSN's website. Its a future that scares me

[Miranda]

Thing is if you buy an electric car, how long would you have to drive it to actually see it paying for itself? If prices are too high, then it's not really going to that cost efficient... People only look at prices at the pump but got to look at the money you got to put up front for a new car...
Well we might not be able to dump our cars every two years like a bunch of us do...


But I was listening to Clark Howard a few days ago and he was talking about the Prius and said that it will pay for itself after 8 years or so, depending on your driving...

Annndd... companies are starting to come out with pure electric cars that are at or below the $50K price point... when they come down to the 30s, they'll be paying for thenselves in no time.

[eViLMunkey]

Maybe this is the future:

http://www.popsci.com/files/imagecache/article_image_large/files/articles/petridish.jpg


Breeding the Oil Bug

Biologists can now create organisms that have never before existed—including designer bacteria that turn sugar into fuel ..

It could be an aerial photo of an oil spill: liquid spheres pooling, oozing, dwarfing a bedraggled landscape. I half expect to zoom in on poisoned seal pups or waterbirds dragging their oil-soaked feathers. But the scene is microscopic. The “landscape” is made of E. coli. And what’s happening is exactly the opposite of what it seems. The little bugs aren’t drowning in fuel. They’re making it.


continued at... http://www.popsci.com/environment/article/2008-04/breeding-oil-bug



There is also a company developing fuels from algea last I saw on the history channel (Hist. HD is the shiznit)

Bio Oils (http://www.algaelink.com/)

[Motivation]

That's true but I wonder what maintenance prices will be on them cause not every mechanic will want to or know how to work on them...

[Miranda]

That's true but I wonder what maintenance prices will be on them cause not every mechanic will want to or know how to work on them...
They will when that's the norm... besides... these guys are pretty slick... the ones already set to Master Tech status with the hybrids shouldn't have much trouble shifting over to a fully electric platform...

Like I said though... I'd still rather have my turbo-charged bio-fueled sports car... that would make me smile.

[eViLMunkey]

That's true but I wonder what maintenance prices will be on them cause not every mechanic will want to or know how to work on them...


lets see they will cause they have bills like the rest of us, and the learning curve for crossing over to an electric or alternative fuel car is not that far from what we currently have

[Got Milk?]

Time to get a bike that runs on electricity. lol

[redrumracer]

If you guys really think that oil is gonna last, you're dreaming...

Peak Oil is a reality, and we're probably getting ready to see it. I wouldn't be surprised if it happens by the end of this decade.
we arent going to run out in my lifetimeor prob my childs life time. and peak oil is different than running out. and i also say that fuel prices will drop within the next 3 years.

[chrisdavis]

Annndd... companies are starting to come out with pure electric cars that are at or below the $50K price point... when they come down to the 30s, they'll be paying for thenselves in no time.

There are several companies out now who are at or below 20k

The Zenn 20k

http://www.zenncars.com/

Th!nk < 20k

http://www.think.no/think


Smart 12k

http://www.smartusa.com/

Unfourtunately the problem with most of these cars the range on a single charge is less than 100 miles which limits the practicality of them. I do like the Think Ox and the Zenn.

[Julio]

Honestly, Stop crying.. .. Is going to happen... UNLESS.. the US goverment starts pulling from alaska.. or take care of the president in Venezuela.....
Gasonline in Venezuela is under $1!!
Hugo Chaves is the person to blame for these prices!!! WAKE UP y0 ~!!

A gallon of GASOLINE in the Insland of Dominican republic is $7 ... They make what most people average in one day here they make in a month...

Scooters and motorcycles are not looking as bad.....

FYI the big players in Atlanta Quiktrip and Racetrac Have some station with $4+ a gallon right now.......

[SLOWR/T]

good vid to watch
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3340274697167011147&hl=en

[tone456]

I don't see how the bus is going to help as stated in OP... They are just going to pass the charge to the passengers so you are still going to be paying for it, and you don't know what kind of crazy person is sitting beside you....

the buses in atlanta run on natural gas :goodjob:

[slostang]

^^^ it isn't any cheaper is it?

[green91]

Pretty scary especially for those of us who rely on the automotive industry to make a living and have a little bit of a commute to work.

[Alan®]

gas prices would come down if we could tap into more of what we have here but it will never happen so long as the greenpeace mongers keep getting what they want. did anyone else see mat lauer try to bash on the ceo of exxon mobil?

[Alan®]

^^^ it isn't any cheaper is it?
um yea actually it is

[green91]

guys the only thing that will drive gas prices down is to reduce the amount of oil that is consumed. its that simple. most places are at peak production, more gasoline cannot be made. we are using more than is being produced therefor making the price higher

[Alan®]

guys the only thing that will drive gas prices down is to reduce the amount of oil that is consumed. its that simple. most places are at peak production, more gasoline cannot be made. we are using more than is being produced therefor making the price higher

There are a lot of reasons gas is so high right now. One of which is that we are running at capacity for production.

Also China's ecconomic expansion and growing oil need has caused prices to go up.

Also there is not a clear definitive answer as to how much oil we have left.

If we could tap some of the other places we know there is oil we could bring down the cost. But guess what.......it won't happen until something severe happens although you would think $4+ a gallon would be serious but ehh what do I know.

[0p7!mu5]

or go ethanol or some other alternative fuel usage. Face it they arent goin to bring down the cost of oil until people cant afford it so you mind as well start looking into alternatives. Bio fuel doesnt have to come from just corn. I mean look at all the moonshine people make my friend made some **** out of sugar and it combusted fine. Point is with whatever we pull out of the ground the only way to stave this off is make more efficient cars and go ethanol or another fuel source till a better solution is found. relying on pure oil isnt helping obviously wake up

[tony]

gas prices would come down if we could tap into more of what we have here but it will never happen so long as the greenpeace mongers keep getting what they want. did anyone else see mat lauer try to bash on the ceo of exxon mobil?

I always like that logic, drill more.. forget the fact that we drive around in gas guzzlers on 28's. Kind of like Bush going to Saudi Arabia to ask them to increase production when the country has done nothing to address consumption.

Prices shift the market.. I know times are tough but trust me this is when companies start going to the drawing board and get innovative. I could be wrong here but if gas even comes close to $10 a gallon the government will have no choice but to step in and take drastic measures BUT it wont hit that point.. the market will adapt and so will the people.

[SampaGuy]

Honestly, Stop crying.. .. Is going to happen... UNLESS.. the US goverment starts pulling from alaska.. or take care of the president in Venezuela.....
Gasonline in Venezuela is under $1!!
Hugo Chaves is the person to blame for these prices!!! WAKE UP y0 ~!!

A gallon of GASOLINE in the Insland of Dominican republic is $7 ... They make what most people average in one day here they make in a month...



A gallon of gas is already over $10 in some countries in europe. Its just that their economy is already adjusted to gas prices being that high, ours is not.

[Got Milk?]

There is one way to bring gas prices down.

One day, our whole nation should decide to stop driving and going to work. So this way they would have to bring gas prices down etc, beause government or who ever sells us the oil cant argue or fight our whole nation.

LOL MY 2 CENTS.

[Got Milk?]

A gallon of gas is already over $10 in some countries in europe. Its just that their economy is already adjusted to gas prices being that high, ours is not.

WOW, there are so many things wrong with that post.

1st-I went all over Europe 6 months ago, Bosnia, Italy, Spain, Germany and i didnt see any where gas prices being close to 10.

2nd-People in Europe really dont have to worry about payments on their house or health etc. as we do over here, so they have extra cash.

3rd-In Europe people dont do alot of driving, even if they do its mostly on their motorcycles. And if its in a car, they really dont have to drive far away.



And stop bitching about gas prices going up cus they wont stop,its not the end of the world.

[Miranda]

we arent going to run out in my lifetimeor prob my childs life time. and peak oil is different than running out. and i also say that fuel prices will drop within the next 3 years.
That's probably not true. Moreover, once Peak Oil is reached (peak oil, for those of you who don't know, is the point at which maximum production is reached, followed by a sharp decline in production -- as roughly half the world's oil has been mined), demand will not decline along with production. To the contrary, at the rate we're going, demand will continue to rise far beyond the world's capacity to mine and refine what oil is left.

In 2006, US (and ONLY US) oil consumption reached 7.5 billion barrels, while continuing the trend towards increasing demand of about 30-40% in about a decade. Mind you, that 7.5 billion barrels only accounted for about a quarter of the entire world's consumption (these are EIA statistics). The concept of Peak Oil has not been widely publicized or explored due to conflicting reports on the world’s oil supply.

Estimates from the National Petroleum Council’s (NPC) 2007 Hard Truths Report to the Secretary of the Department of Energy claim there is about one trillion barrels worth of oil left in the earth (or roughly 3-4 years of oil at EIA’s approximation of present consumption levels). Other estimates claim two to three trillion barrels are still untapped. Such drastic differences between estimates, enhanced by the potential for future oil discoveries, have left most of America with the impression that the oil crisis is a purely political one.

The bottom line: regardless of which estimate most accurately predicts the world’s total supply, oil remains finite. A difference in one trillion barrels only accounts for a few years’ supply. New discoveries, while capable of postponing the inevitable, cannot change the fact that oil is an exhaustible resource.

To understand why the breakdown of oil production would be so detrimental to the US infrastructure, we have to understand what oil does for the US. Oil is not simply gasoline for transportation; rather, it is crucial for the production of plastics, rubbers, pharmaceuticals, and food production capabilities. Plastics and rubbers, themselves, are among the most important products of crude oil, accounting for major components in all electronics, transportable food and water supplies, sterile single-use medical equipment, automotive components, all major utilities, and more. Ultimately, every American is affected by oil from the very moment of birth. Without oil, life as we know it would not exist.

Peak Oil is a reality. When Peak Oil will occur may be a matter of retrospection rather than prediction, but many agree that it will more than likely come in our lifetime. As devastating as the potential effects of a terminal decline in production associated with Peak Oil may be, the US is not approaching the issue to the extent necessary.

[3.5altman]

time to move closer to work, and buy a single cam civic..ha ha

[slostang]

or go ethanol or some other alternative fuel usage. Face it they arent goin to bring down the cost of oil until people cant afford it so you mind as well start looking into alternatives. Bio fuel doesnt have to come from just corn. I mean look at all the moonshine people make my friend made some **** out of sugar and it combusted fine. Point is with whatever we pull out of the ground the only way to stave this off is make more efficient cars and go ethanol or another fuel source till a better solution is found. relying on pure oil isnt helping obviously wake up


it actually requires 1.2 gallons of fossil fuels (diesel, gas and propane) to produce one single gallon of ethanol. btw ethanol is basically moonshine.
:2cents: :cheers:

[GSRteg®]

$10 :eek:

[JennB]

WOW, there are so many things wrong with that post.

1st-I went all over Europe 6 months ago, Bosnia, Italy, Spain, Germany and i didnt see any where gas prices being close to 10.

2nd-People in Europe really dont have to worry about payments on their house or health etc. as we do over here, so they have extra cash.

3rd-In Europe people dont do alot of driving, even if they do its mostly on their motorcycles. And if its in a car, they really dont have to drive far away.



And stop bitching about gas prices going up cus they wont stop,its not the end of the world.


Clarify please. People in Europe don't pay for their houses? :thinking: Housing in the major cities in Europe and even the smaller cities in some countries is very expensive for very small spaces. People live in just a few hundeds square feet.

Gas is 1.5 Euro's per litre right now. I walked right by a gas station yesterday and that was the price. That's $5.70 per gallon. There are very few SUVs but there are a few. People don't drive 30 miles each way to work though. Cars are driven 5-10 miles a day in the city... if you even own one. Public transport is great. I would LOVE for our city of have decent public transport. Sure, we have MARTA but it's awful. I've travelled all over the US and am in Europe now and Atlanta's public transport system is light years behind what it should be and damn near useless for most people.

I love cars but in an ideal situation, my car would be for enjoyment, not a necessity. I absolutely love taking trains all over the city and never having to worrk about parking or gas when I'm in Paris, NYC, Philly, DC, etc.

[gforce23]

Gas is 1.5 Euro's per litre right now.

What's the cost of diesel? Most people in Europe don't care about gas/petrol prices anyway.

[greasemunkey]

time to move closer to work, and buy a single cam civic..ha hacheck and check:yes: btw 32+ mpg rocks!

[IndianStig]

Well we might not be able to dump our cars every two years like a bunch of us do...


But I was listening to Clark Howard a few days ago and he was talking about the Prius and said that it will pay for itself after 8 years or so, depending on your driving...

Annndd... companies are starting to come out with pure electric cars that are at or below the $50K price point... when they come down to the 30s, they'll be paying for thenselves in no time.



doubt it.

2008 Toyota Camry - $18k
2008 Toyota Camry Hybrid - $25k

Say you save $1000 a year in gas, the hybrid still takes 7 years to show any real savings.

[TheGodfather]

Lol at the confused liberals who thing oil is going to run out soon.
Also have fun spending outrageous prices because a car says hybrid. It will take about 21 years for you to see your money back, and the hybrid engines don't last that long. So no go on that one. If you are going to be a true liberal hippie, grab a bicycle. That is really the only solution.

If and when this gas crisis rises even more, I will grab arms in preperation for a Civil War II. Hmmm, but which side to fight for?

Regardless, I'd love to defend my house and shoot everyone moving.

This would work excellent, as it would decrease the consumption of the worlds resources, and after the war everyone would be better off.

I'd kill lots of the stupid soccer mom wives who spend all their husbands money to run from mall to mall in an Escalade. Then I'd kill their husbands for being so stupid.

I win.

[Big J]

<------- makes sure guns are clean, orders more ammo

[tony]

it actually requires 1.2 gallons of fossil fuels (diesel, gas and propane) to produce one single gallon of ethanol. btw ethanol is basically moonshine.
:2cents: :cheers:

Actually those figures are old, its 1 gallon of fossil fuel produces about 1.3 gallons of ethanol and in Brazil the ratio is 1 gallon produces 8 due to the energy content of Sugar Cane.. hmm, brazil can get 8 gallons of ethanol from 1 gallon spent but the great superpower can only get 1.3, doesn't quite sound right.

Conservatives would like you to believe ethanol is a waste of time but it really is a viable energy source.

[Elbow]

Gas won't go to $10/gallon, and we are not about to run out of oil.

And yeah ban SUV's unless you NEED one, dumb **** soccer moms.

[1439/2000]

I could see it putting a huge impact on atlanta due to it being a spread out city vs say new york or boston where it's easier to walk to where you need to go. the closest store to my house is like 2 miles which isn't bad a full tank right now lasts me 2.5 weeks


The thing is, YOU can walk to work but your co workers might not be able to. What about the customers that buy your ****? They wont go and then you're out of a job. Its not how will we get there its how will our economy work. I'm ****ing sick of the middle eastern countries doing this ****. We need a combination of drilling in this country and cutting back but too many ***** politicians wont do anything about it.

[Ran]

Price was at $4.15 for premium today at QT. Hooray!

*Bought 87 Octane*


And yeah ban SUV's unless you NEED one, dumb **** soccer moms.x2 SUV's FTMFL

[carbon_crash]

I agree with Tony, need to start drilling in Alaska. Or drill off the coast of Florida

[Miranda]

Lol at the confused liberals who thing oil is going to run out soon.

This isn't a liberal thing... it's a science thing. Even scientists from the major oil companies have agreed that the oil is running out... the big debate is over how quickly. You realize how this works, right? Well hang on... I'll get a picture for you:

http://www.drmillslmu.com/peakoi4.gif


Don't forget... the world population has doubled THREE times in the last 70 years or so... along with that increase, demand for oil has shot up. EVEN IF THERE WAS INFINITE OIL, the population will soon reach a level where demand exceeds output capacity. I argue that we're already at THAT point... hence food riots in Haiti and starving/dehydrated people in drought ridden "Southern" countries.

And what is with you people and trying to call this a "liberal" or a "conservative" thing, like those terms are supposed to be insults. Both liberal and conservative records have been abysmal, especially when it comes to energy independence.

Don't stay in denial, or we WILL be in a nasty situation akin to the Civil War. To avoid those kinds of controversies, we need to get focused on new forms of oil...

[tony]

And what is with you people and trying to call this a "liberal" or a "conservative" thing, like those terms are supposed to be insults. Both liberal and conservative records have been abysmal, especially when it comes to energy independence.



Reason being is one tends not to see the logic in the other sides argument and would rather believe they are right rather than admit they are wrong.

[Miranda]

It's sad and pathetic... and it honestly sounds more like a response you'd expect from someone who has absolutely no understanding of the terms he/she is trying to use.

[R3RUN]

The truckers would strike long before gas hit $10 a gallon.

[ironchef]

This isn't a liberal thing... it's a science thing. Even scientists from the major oil companies have agreed that the oil is running out... the big debate is over how quickly. You realize how this works, right? Well hang on... I'll get a picture for you:

http://www.drmillslmu.com/peakoi4.gif


Don't forget... the world population has doubled THREE times in the last 70 years or so... along with that increase, demand for oil has shot up. EVEN IF THERE WAS INFINITE OIL, the population will soon reach a level where demand exceeds output capacity. I argue that we're already at THAT point... hence food riots in Haiti and starving/dehydrated people in drought ridden "Southern" countries.

And what is with you people and trying to call this a "liberal" or a "conservative" thing, like those terms are supposed to be insults. Both liberal and conservative records have been abysmal, especially when it comes to energy independence.

Don't stay in denial, or we WILL be in a nasty situation akin to the Civil War. To avoid those kinds of controversies, we need to get focused on new forms of oil...I dont see how we're getting close to running out, when the majority of the oil finds in the world havent even been tapped. Have you ever heard of the Abiotic Oil Theory?

Also the whole oil comes from fossils thing hasn't been proven.

As far as the output capacity issue, who knows what our actual limits are?

More than likely the issues in Haiti are a result of a poor governmental system.

So far this discussion has been adult like, hopefully it stays that way, even though this is the whoreslounge.