Best engine...

[Danzo]

What would be the best engine to drop in a 00 Accord coupe with the intent on turboing it? Preferably with minimal building of internals but in the long run I'll build it fully. Also I will only be running like 7 lbs at first. I was just trying to decide if I wanted to do this or not cause I think it would be pretty funny to see and a little cool at the same time.

[EJ25RUN]

50cc from a Honda cub.

[Vteckidd]

h22

[Danzo]

h22

That was what I was thinking. Its also what I expected to see the most on here as an answer :P

How many pounds can be safely run without building an H22? I'm new to Honda engines I have always been Nissan but I need a fuel economy car and goes vroom now so I am going Honda.

[SPOOLIN]

h22

id say 12 psi to be safe. Its more about power, i guess those motors are pretty "reliable" to up to 280-300 hp when not used like a jackass.

[Danzo]

I drive a 15 year old sports car as my DD at the moment I know all about TLC for cars haha. Just realised you're from Rome. BUY MY CAR! If you do you'll see a 00' Accord rolling around with an H22 swap rolling around in the next few months haha. But seriously tell people about it I want it gone now so I can do this; I'm bored of the Z.

[SPOOLIN]

lol, i dont know anyone that would want a z. keep it posted, itll sell. Someone could put a 2jz in it haha.

[Danzo]

Now that would be funny. A Supra powered Z is a sight to behold.

[blackshine007]

h22
With the cylinder walls damn near made of plastic you'd still reccomend boosting on it? I probably wouldn't ever boost the motor just based on that. If anything, go find an F23 and drop the H22 head on it. Or boost the H23, but not the H22. And I'm not a honda guy but I can tell you that much.

[Danzo]

Hmm more research is needed before a final decision is made.

[Turbodude06]

Yea my buddy's H22 blew up on the dyno when it was getting tuned and he didn't even drive it before that either......

[patrick4588]

get a hatch, get a gsr swap, boost it. yes its been done a billion times, but there's a reason for that, it works.

[DarKStaR]

if its a 00 accord its more than likely already got a f22/f23 just boost that....its basically like an LS, pretty strong bottom end from the factory. If your just gonna do 7psi it will be reliable, and make lots of torque.

[WhiteAccord]

Jeeezzz....All you guys are wrong.

H22 cost way too much money, with that money you could already boost the Accord, with more power than a swapped motor. Even on a stock motor, h22 will be so limited and much more prone to be blown.

Your best bet would be F23, strong bottom end just plain stock, and could run much more boost than the H22. And to build it, it would cost less, needs less mods, to make as much power as a fully built H22.

Any more info just PM me.

[Vteckidd]

With the cylinder walls damn near made of plastic you'd still reccomend boosting on it? I probably wouldn't ever boost the motor just based on that. If anything, go find an F23 and drop the H22 head on it. Or boost the H23, but not the H22. And I'm not a honda guy but I can tell you that much.
Plastic? LOL

Try FRE sleeves. H22s have good blocks, they can hold just as much power as a GSR.

SO you reccomend some crappy hybrid SOHC DOHC contraption but a H22, its got plastic sleeves.,,,,

:screwy:

[Vteckidd]

The question was whats the BEST ENGINE.

IMO its the H22.

F23s are ok as long as you respect their rev limiter

[blackshine007]

Plastic? LOL

Try FRE sleeves. H22s have good blocks, they can hold just as much power as a GSR.

SO you reccomend some crappy hybrid SOHC DOHC contraption but a H22, its got plastic sleeves.,,,,

:screwy:
Let me use the term that Honda calls it.... Fiber Reinforced Metal (FRM)Cylinder wall lining. It's really good for for all motor, but a complete disaster for boost. Not to mention that it's an open deck design. And even though you can buy the cylinder brace thing that keeps the sleeves from moving (help me with the name, please!) What's the point of doing all of that? Get a motor that already has a closed deck that is more than capable of holding boost without buying any extra parts. As far as the rev limit.... meh, who cares? 7200 rpm should more than be sufficient for boost. You don't have to rev the bejeebus out of it to make any power. Nice sized turbo + good set of cams and pistons = win.

[chituntang]

If you are not using the motor that comes with your car, you can build/rebuild it before you put it into the car, which means it will hold whatever you put into the motor.

Hum... Is your Z turbo? If it is not, you should have more fun rolling around in a twin turbo z than a turbo Accord most of the time.

[WhiteAccord]

The question was whats the BEST ENGINE.

IMO its the H22.

F23s are ok as long as you respect their rev limiter

I guess on motor wise its taste, but yeah the F series have a pretty short rev.

[RUFFIAN]

I would say H23 non-VTEC.

[Danzo]

If you are not using the motor that comes with your car, you can build/rebuild it before you put it into the car, which means it will hold whatever you put into the motor.

Hum... Is your Z turbo? If it is not, you should have more fun rolling around in a twin turbo z than a turbo Accord most of the time.

I was about to put a swap in it but then I decided against it. I'm just going to get this s14 from a friend and then do light mods on it and get some kind of bike I think instead. I still dont know my plans but only time will tell haha. But continue this discussion its a very interesting read and a good way to learn more about honda engines which my knowledge is very limited on.

[josh green]

Let me use the term that Honda calls it.... Fiber Reinforced Metal (FRM)Cylinder wall lining. It's really good for for all motor, but a complete disaster for boost. Not to mention that it's an open deck design. And even though you can buy the cylinder brace thing that keeps the sleeves from moving (help me with the name, please!) What's the point of doing all of that? Get a motor that already has a closed deck that is more than capable of holding boost without buying any extra parts. As far as the rev limit.... meh, who cares? 7200 rpm should more than be sufficient for boost. You don't have to rev the bejeebus out of it to make any power. Nice sized turbo + good set of cams and pistons = win.
Actually the FRM sleeves are very strong, and they only come in the 5th gen prelude h22's. An h22 from a 96 and older were iron sleeve closed deck blocks, so I would say they are pretty strong. The weakest point in a FRM h22 is the pistons, just like any other honda. Very few companies make a FRM compatible piston and I dont really know that I would trust them. Hondas first attempt at the FRM sleeves were in the b21a1. After 300k miles you can still see the cross hatch from the factory hone, they are pretty hard on rings and few machine shops will attempt to hone them.
Just boost the stock engine, talk to emmino on here.

[.::UNKNOWN::.]

With the cylinder walls damn near made of plastic you'd still reccomend boosting on it? I probably wouldn't ever boost the motor just based on that. If anything, go find an F23 and drop the H22 head on it. Or boost the H23, but not the H22. And I'm not a honda guy but I can tell you that much. partially right the h22 and h23 both have frm sleeves (every thing in the block except the pistons and oil squirters are the same) and hate boost especially if you want to run more than 6psi... if you can do it right but it takes alot of enternal work talk to the guy that just put the h22 in the ef 4 door... if i boosted an h22 my build would be identical to his it is flawless.. if you wanted to boost an accord with minimal work i would find and an single cam f22b (usdm they have iron sleaves) and put an h23 head to make it a dual cam f22b and with the right tune i have seen these run 10+ pounds of boost on a daily driver and it runs for days

[.::UNKNOWN::.]

Actually the FRM sleeves are very strong, and they only come in the 5th gen prelude h22's. An h22 from a 96 and older were iron sleeve closed deck blocks, so I would say they are pretty strong. The weakest point in a FRM h22 is the pistons, just like any other honda. Very few companies make a FRM compatible piston and I dont really know that I would trust them. Hondas first attempt at the FRM sleeves were in the b21a1. After 300k miles you can still see the cross hatch from the factory hone, they are pretty hard on rings and few machine shops will attempt to hone them.
Just boost the stock engine, talk to emmino on here. the frm sleaves cam in the 92-96 h22 the 5th gen h22 and the 4th gen h22 are identical other than the closed deck and the H23 has frm sleeves... and for the pistons answer they are called MAHLE pistons porche runs frm sleeves and they run MAHLE pistons stock and they have some for an h22

[Vteckidd]

Let me use the term that Honda calls it.... Fiber Reinforced Metal (FRM)Cylinder wall lining. It's really good for for all motor, but a complete disaster for boost. Not to mention that it's an open deck design. And even though you can buy the cylinder brace thing that keeps the sleeves from moving (help me with the name, please!) What's the point of doing all of that? Get a motor that already has a closed deck that is more than capable of holding boost without buying any extra parts. As far as the rev limit.... meh, who cares? 7200 rpm should more than be sufficient for boost. You don't have to rev the bejeebus out of it to make any power. Nice sized turbo + good set of cams and pistons = win.

I guess all those open deck 400whp GSRs arent capable of holding boost then. I guess all the 500-600whp K20A2 open deck motors are about to grenade.

The FR"M" Sleeves are fine, and the FRM is not why they fail. Josh Green is right, the PISTONS are the weak link, just like ANY OTHER HONDA MOTOR.

The Cast Pistons are what fail, NOT THE SLEEVES.

RPM wise, welcome to hondas, they have to be revved to make power, i thought that was common knowledge?

My comment about the F23 was that they have a big stroke, so you have to respect the rev limiter. As long as you stay away from it they can last. Look at EmminoDaGreats car, makes 280whp stock F23 motor but he doesnt run that power every day.

H22s will make more power, they are more rev friendly (9000rpms stock is fine with valvetrain), they are a much better designed and efficient motor.

All these people saying the h22 sucks for boost, have never done one.

They are fine for 300whp and under. Ive seen and done many h22s under 300whp WHEN PROPERLY TUNED last just as long as GSRs

[scttydb411]

start with what you have unless you're planning on dropping a built motor in it. we have been pleasantly surprised w/ emminodagreats f23...we planning on upping the boost some more to see how far we can go with it.

[blackshine007]

I guess all those open deck 400whp GSRs arent capable of holding boost then yeah, with the use of a block brace
. I guess all the 500-600whp K20A2 open deck motors are about to grenade. we're talking about 2 different designs, one is far more superior than the other and to my knowledge don't have the same problem as the B series have. The K series Mazda engines are open deck too and have been known making 500whp or better without the use of a block brace. Call it a good design because Honda did their homework on the new K series which probably wouldn't use a block brace.


The FR"M" Sleeves are fine, and the FRM is not why they fail. Josh Green is right, the PISTONS are the weak link, just like ANY OTHER HONDA MOTOR.


The Cast Pistons are what fail, NOT THE SLEEVES.
I'm not gonna argue the logic of stock pistons failing but please explain warped cylinder sleeves with forged pistons? Why do every other company make iron sleeves for both the H and the B series? Why don't they feel so strongly about the FRM sleeves? Like I said, they aren't ideal for boost and most of them warp after so long. That's why it's best for the F22b bottom end

RPM wise, welcome to hondas, they have to be revved to make power, i thought that was common knowledge?
Not all hondas have to be revved. There's actually hondas out there that make decent power with not alot of rpm.


My comment about the F23 was that they have a big stroke, so you have to respect the rev limiter. As long as you stay away from it they can last. Look at EmminoDaGreats car, makes 280whp stock F23 motor but he doesnt run that power every day.
Good example of decent power with not alot of RPM


H22s will make more power, they are more rev friendly (9000rpms stock is fine with valvetrain), they are a much better designed and efficient motor.

All these people saying the h22 sucks for boost, have never done one.

They are fine for 300whp and under. Ive seen and done many h22s under 300whp WHEN PROPERLY TUNED last just as long as GSRs
I'm not arguing that the H is a bad motor, it's actually a pretty nice power but I wouldn't boost it in stock form. Add the iron sleeves, forged pistons and rods with a good bit of boost and it will be a beast. But boosting it stock...... I don't think so. If you do, no more than 7 lbs MAX!!!

[Vteckidd]

No one uses Block guards anymore, The only thing the K has over the B is IVTEC and a better cylinder head.

THe K shares alot with the H22 believe it or not.

Bottom line is you just are giving out bad information. The FRM sleeves are FINE. Why do poeple advocate iron sleeves? its because the OEM sleeves whether its FRM OR NOT, fail past 400whp.

if its 400whp an under, stock sleeves, FRM OR NOT, are FINE.

Emminos car makes great power, but he cant rev it high. But he also has a 2.3 liter.

an h22 with the same turbo kit versus Emminos setup, the h22 is better, id rather have DOHC an 1000 more RPMs of powerband, than .1 L.

but what do i know....

Apparently mazda people know more than me when it comes to hondas :)

[Vteckidd]

I'm not gonna argue the logic of stock pistons failing but please explain warped cylinder sleeves with forged pistons? Why do every other company make iron sleeves for both the H and the B series? Why don't they feel so strongly about the FRM sleeves? Like I said, they aren't ideal for boost and most of them warp after so long. That's why it's best for the F22b bottom end
you are throwing around concepts that it doesnt sound like you understand.

Warped sleeves?

I take it you mean the bore going out of round. That only happens with stock sleeves if the piston is over heated or not tuned properly.

Furthermore, it can happen on IRON sleeves and STOCK SLEEVES with ANY PISTON.

Iron sleeves only mean they can withstand more combustion pressure.

So how many stock h22s have you seen boosted for awhile, then torn down and checked their Piston To wall clearance?

I mean you say they


Like I said, they aren't ideal for boost and most of them warp after so long

YOu must have experience in this area, please enlighten me.

So your argument is:
1) FRM Sleeves are bad because they warp
2) They are weak

Im telling you, you are WRONG.

[Vteckidd]

you know what, post away, im not gonna argue with people that dont know what they are talking about.

You are right, keep giving out your hard earned info lol

cheers

[blackshine007]

No one uses Block guards anymore
Yeah right.



Bottom line is you just are giving out bad information.

but what do i know....

Apparently mazda people know more than me when it comes to hondas :)
http://www.431.org/pics/s2000/cjb-72.jpg
http://www.431.org/pics/s2000/cjb-73.jpg

Yeah, I guess you're right then because I just did a couple minutes of searching just to find those pictures.

[allmotoronly]

I actually have some experience with H22A's. I've had two, and both had issues with the cylinders. Yes the piston rings were the first to go, but the cylinder walls were almost mirror slick at 80k miles, and I didn't even drive it that hard. Good luck honing the cylinders. They only have a thin coating over the FRM. Thats why a lot of preludes have a black crusted over rear bumper, because 9 out or 10 burn oil like crazy. I've never seen a warped cylinder on a boosted H22A, but I have seen a few cracked cylinders. The FRM material is very strong, but not as strong as steel. In a N/A setup you would probably be fine keeping the FRM sleeves and building the **** out of it (good luck finding pistons though).

Instead of spending all that money on a H22A swap, and then turboing it, just keep the stock F series and boost it. Don't waste your time with doing the H22A head swap. Having VTEC is not worth the time and effort it will cost to do the swap, and it will never be as reliable.

After years of owning and building different honda/acura vehicles, I've decided to just buy something that is quick stock, and not waste time spending more money on a car than it's worth to fix it up. Most of the time you won't even get your money out of it if you sell it. You're looking at at least $2000 for the H22A swap, and another $2500 for the turbo kit. Go ahead and add another $1500 for **** you will run into during the swap/turbo install (like a clutch that will handle the extra power for example). So you're looking at $6k for all that. I highly doubt that the accord it's going in is even worth that much. Sell the accord, take the extra $6k, and buy something else.... like this

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=240936820&dealer_id=62241467&car_year=2003&model=350Z&num_records=25&systime=&make2=&start_year=1981&keywordsfyc=&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&keywordsrep=&engine=&certified=&body_code=0&fuel=&awsp=false&search_type=both&distance=0&marketZipError=false&search_lang=en&make=NISSAN&keywords_display=&color=&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=&drive=&default_sort=priceASC&max_mileage=&style_flag=1&sort_type=priceASC&address=30303&advanced=y&end_year=2009&doors=&transmission=&max_price=13000&cardist=160


or this

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=238789883&dealer_id=62007365&car_year=2000&model=S2000&num_records=25&systime=&make2=&start_year=1981&keywordsfyc=&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&keywordsrep=&engine=&certified=&body_code=0&fuel=&awsp=false&search_type=both&distance=0&marketZipError=false&search_lang=en&make=HONDA&keywords_display=&color=&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=&drive=&default_sort=priceASC&max_mileage=&style_flag=1&sort_type=priceASC&address=30303&advanced=y&end_year=2009&doors=&transmission=&max_price=13000&cardist=1262

[Vteckidd]

Yeah right.



http://www.431.org/pics/s2000/cjb-72.jpg
http://www.431.org/pics/s2000/cjb-73.jpg

Yeah, I guess you're right then because I just did a couple minutes of searching just to find those pictures.
so because someone ran their car too lean that means the motors suck

LOL you guys kill me

[EmminoDaGreat]

F>H

[WhiteAccord]

F>H

X2 :D

[BlkCD5]

Just ask yourself, how much do you really want to spend and expect, then make your decision. If you don't want to spend much, just turbo the F23. 8psi will make at least 200hp. You might find yourself wanting more & more boost though. Damn, this F-series vs. H-series topic has been beaten to death. They're both good motors in their own way. imo, I prefer the F-series for boost, as the most inexpensive way to make power.

[chituntang]

I was about to put a swap in it but then I decided against it. I'm just going to get this s14 from a friend and then do light mods on it and get some kind of bike I think instead. I still dont know my plans but only time will tell haha. But continue this discussion its a very interesting read and a good way to learn more about honda engines which my knowledge is very limited on.

Do not do light mods to a S-chassis car. You do not make extra power... But putting an exhaust, lower car with wheels, maybe some JDM body part will make it sexy.

Back on the engine topic, running an N/A engine with turbo without proper tuning=WTL

[Danzo]

Do not do light mods to a S-chassis car. You do not make extra power... But putting an exhaust, lower car with wheels, maybe some JDM body part will make it sexy.

Back on the engine topic, running an N/A engine with turbo without proper tuning=WTL

Thats what I meant was aesthetic mods. If I was going for power I would drop an RB engine in it.

[Dwisforme05]

why not a geo 3 cylinder. i hear they are capable of 600+ hp lol.

[blaknoize]

4g63 and crankwalk ur ass to 9000hp!! :D

[blackshine007]

why not a geo 3 cylinder. i hear they are capable of 600+ hp lol.
The G14B is actually a 4 cylinder.