10% ETHANOL AT THE PUMP??

[LongLiveH2b]

I dont know if this is a repost or not but recently ive been seeing alot of gas stations with the "may contain up to 10% ethanol" and or straight up E85 sticker on the pump, so i tried the first time time since 93 octane wasn't even availible:no: . My car was runnin a lil better with the 89 octane with 10% ethanol, no more "detonation" noise. i dont know if that was all just in my head but..:goodjob:REPS to anyone who can help me find out if this new gas stuff is really good or not, i did the research and cound'nt find SH-T...

ARE THEY TRYIN TO GET RID OF 93 OCTANE?????:cry: http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa307/pxhoang0408/ethanol_fuel_pump.jpgthis was right off clairmont rd.

[RandomGuy]

how much was the e85

[EK Hotch]

Apparently E85 has about 105+ ocatane rating and I have read about people making awesome power, tuning only on E85. I want to have one of my turbo cars tuned on it, but the closest gas station to me that sells it is more than 30 miles away.

[_Christian_]

wth

[osiriskidd]

clairmont? which part? thats awesome.

[aneel]

so if i put this in my sti v-tak will kick harder???????


aneeL

[LongLiveH2b]

clairmont? which part? thats awesome.

theres a BP right in front of the sams




so if i put this in my sti v-tak will kick harder???????


aneeL

i dont know about the lengendary STi's v-tak power but it should give you the ride of your life when that v-tah kicks in....lol:lmfao::lmfao:

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f107/ajradel80/VTAK.gif

[MIKE.P]

theres one in smyrna. running e85 as a "higher oct." is old news.. its also supposedly cheeper than premium gas!! and yes when tuned on this you will see a substantial hp gians. if you dont kow if you have a station that has e85 check this out

http://www.e85fuel.com/need_e85.php

[Ronsam2006]

theres one in smyrna. running e85 as a "higher oct." is old news.. its also supposedly cheeper than premium gas!! and yes when tuned on this you will see a substantial hp gians. if you dont kow if you have a station that has e85 check this out

http://www.e85fuel.com/need_e85.php
I just checked out that website. The cars that say they are compatible are all new cars.....just how exactly does this work?

[Echonova]

E85 is good in Flexfuel cars and some other new models, not all. Yes E85 is around 105 octane however Ethanol is also a very good solvent. Older cars it will eat the rubber lines and o-rings in your fuel lines. Also E85 contains less energy than gasoline, your fuel mileage will drop by about 25%.

[Echonova]

E10 = 10% Ethanol, is not a high enough percentage to harm older cars, or notice a difference in mileage. You won't notice any change, other than your fuel injectors stay clean...

[dumpdaccord]

E85 is good in Flexfuel cars and some other new models, not all. Yes E85 is around 105 octane however Ethanol is also a very good solvent. Older cars it will eat the rubber lines and o-rings in your fuel lines. Also E85 contains less energy than gasoline, your fuel mileage will drop by about 25%.


so if E85 is $2.50 a gallon and you get 25% less mileage.....doesnt that defeat the purpose?:thinking::thinking::thinking:

[Echonova]

All Ethanol is, is moonshine mixed with gas...

[Echonova]

In the United States, some 5 million of the cars and trucks on the road are "flex-fuel," meaning that they can run either on traditional gasoline or E85, a mix of 85 percent ethanol and 15 percent gasoline.

Converting an automobile to run on flex-fuel costs about $100.

[LongLiveH2b]

so would it be good to mix half 87 and the other half E85 would u have like a 42% ethanol rating

[EJ25RUN]

last time i saw a car run continues ethenol mix in a standard motor, that motor ceased.

[Echonova]

Perhaps some don't believe me?

From www.fueleconomy.gov website...

Flexible fuel vehicles (FFVs) are designed to run on gasoline or a blend of up to 85%

ethanol (E85). Except for a few engine and fuel system modifications, they are identical to gasoline-only models.

FFVs have been produced since the 1980s, and dozens of models are currently available. Since FFVs look just like gasoline-only models, you may have an FFV and not even know it. To determine if your vehicle is an FFV, check the inside of your car's fuel filler door for an identification sticker or consult your owner’s manual.

FFVs experience no loss in performance when operating on E85. However, since a gallon of ethanol contains less energy than a gallon of gasoline, FFVs typically get about 20-30% fewer miles per gallon when fueled with E85.

[Echonova]

so would it be good to mix half 87 and the other half E85 would u have like a 42% ethanol ratingNo, you can't run a car (for very long anyway) on anything higher than 30% without risk to the fuel system if you don't convert it to E85 compatible equipment.

[eghonda88]

Its not really better! Its government subsidized so all the farmers are making it and it raises the price of or food and gas prices. It's 25% less efficient than gasoline and isn't any better for the environment. On the other hand if you build dragsters to run on it you can have up to 14:1 cr from what i hear. A guy i know who has a 7 sec mopar runs on E85 he said his is only at 12:1 but it can handle 14!

[MskunkM]

in short... dont put E85 in your car unless its "flexfuel" (so JUST NEW CARS with the flexfuel logo)

[Echonova]

E85 is a great cheap race gas (again, if the fuel system is converted to handle it). Since you're not really worried about fuel mileage at that point...

[Echonova]

2008 Model Flexible Fuel Vehicles Announced

The National Ethanol Vehicle Coalition is very pleased to announce that 31 models of motor vehicles will be offered with an E85 capable engine in 2008. Chrysler, Ford, General Motors, Nissan and Mercedes Benz will all offer flexible fuel vehicles (FFVs) in the coming year.

“We are pleased to see so many popular models offered with a flexible fuel engine in 2008,” stated Executive Director of the NEVC Phil Lampert. “From a humble beginning of less than 500 FFVs in 1993, we expect that more than 750,000 such FFVs will be produced in the coming year. As we work to advance our national energy independence, we encourage consumers to consider the purchase of a flexible fuel vehicle that is capable of operating on regular unleaded gasoline or up to 85% ethanol.”

The following platforms will be produced as Flexible Fuel Vehicles during MY 2008:

Chrysler
4.7L Chrysler Aspen
2.7L Chrysler Sebring Convertible & Sedan
3.3L Chrysler Town & Country
2.7L Dodge Avenger
4.7L Dodge Dakota
4.7L Dodge Durango
3.3L Dodge Grand Caravan
4.7L Dodge Ram
4.7L Jeep Commander & Grand Cherokee


Ford
4.6L Ford Crown Victoria (including taxi & police units)
5.4L Ford F-150
4.6L Mercury Grand Marquis
4.6L Lincoln Town Car



General Motors
3.5L & 3.9L Chevrolet Impala (including police units)
5.3L Chevrolet Avalanche & Silverado, GMC Sierra
5.3L Chevrolet Express & GMC Savana
5.3L Chevrolet Suburban & GMC Yukon XL
5.3L Chevrolet Tahoe & Police Package Tahoe, GMC Yukon
3.9L Chevrolet Uplander
3.9L Pontiac Montana (only available in Canada & Mexico)



Nissan
5.6L Nissan Armada
5.6L Nissan Titan



Mercedes Benz
3.0L Mercedes Benz C300 Luxury & Sport

Excluding the Chrysler Town and Country Minivan which will be available in all 50 states, model year 2008 Chrysler FFVs will not be available for purchase in California, Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, and Vermont. Nissan FFVs will be available only in select markets. Ford, GM and Mercedes Benz 2008 FFVs will be available in all 50 states. Chrysler, GM, Ford and Nissan are all members of the NEVC.

Lampert added, “We are optimistic that during the course of the next several months, additional FFV platforms will be announced by our automaker members. As the production of such vehicles continues to grow, the NEVC and our partners across the nation continue to dedicate our efforts to the growth of E85 fueling facilities.”

The NEVC 2008 Purchasing Guide will include a complete listing of all FFVs, photos, their engine and passenger size, and their gallon fuel capacity. This full color, 16 page guide will be available in early October. To place your order, email [email protected].

For a complete listing of all model year FFVs, go to www.E85Fuel.com.

[d16_turbo]

E85 is good in Flexfuel cars and some other new models, not all. Yes E85 is around 105 octane however Ethanol is also a very good solvent. Older cars it will eat the rubber lines and o-rings in your fuel lines. Also E85 contains less energy than gasoline, your fuel mileage will drop by about 25%.

e85 also eats away aluminum and copper

[Echonova]

e85 also eats away aluminum and copperBrass too, everything has to be nickel plated at a minimium.

[Double_0_Rusty]

I love working for GM, I have already been schooled on e85, and Echo is telling yall the troof.

[Echonova]

I love working for GM, I have already been schooled on e85, and Echo is telling yall the troof.Duh... It's what I do for a living.;)

[d16_turbo]

Brass too, everything has to be nickel plated at a minimium.

yup i work at a petroleum equipment company and we are changing filters in the gas pumps like crazy . e85 mixes with water so there is a better chance of getting water in your tank when you pump it.

[Nittanys1]

I was driving home from Raleigh monday and ran into this at the BP i stopped at off I-85 (exit 87) and was wondering the same thing. interesting to figure it out!

[Echonova]

yup i work at a petroleum equipment company and we are changing filters like crazy . e85 mixes with water so there is a better chance of getting water in your tank when you pump it.Yes and no. The water than Ethanol "floats" is in such small amounts it will burn in a car. Phase seperation is the real danger, hence the filter that swell with water. Cheaper to replace filters than a car engine. Usually if you're changing a lot of filters they didn't have their tanks cleaned before Ethanol was dropped. Who do you work for? MECO, APEC, Jones & Frank, United or somebody else? If you don't mind me asking...

[d16_turbo]

e85 is just going to make the prices on everything go up more

[d16_turbo]

Yes and no. The water than Ethanol "floats" is in such small amounts it will burn in a car. Phase seperation is the real danger, hence the filter that swell with water. Cheaper to replace filters than a car engine. Usually if you're changing a lot of filters they didn't have their tanks cleaned before Ethanol was dropped. Who do you work for? MECO, APEC, Jones & Frank, United or somebody else? If you don't mind me asking...

i work for meco and my dad works at apec

[Echonova]

Right on. I work for the Georgia Oilmen's Association

[KevinT707]

Good info from Echonova. I was planning on running some E85 too since it has high octane rating but I rather not risk all the bad stuff so I'm gravy and will stick with 93.

[superboost]

I won't comment on E85. I've heard good things about it boosting octane, but we also know that ethanol is noticeably "thinner", iE it runs a tad leaner and contains less energy than the old petrol stuff, so you have to richen your map up a bit to compensate. However, there is some ping protection there.

I can comment on E10 however. I've run it in my turbo car before, and she did not like it. The wideband reports .5 to 1 point full leaner burn and my car starts to ping at higher boost levels as a result. I stay far far away from that stuff. Last time I ran E10 in my car from shell, it broke a spark plug. Blew the electrode completely off the plug and my car idled like a subaru. I have broken several spark plugs running the E10 crap. My car simply isn't mapped for it. I know a time will come when I do have to re-map, but for now, my stubbornness forces me to seek out non-ethanoled gas.

[LongLiveH2b]

i pumped 93 with the 10% ethanol today and man it felt way better than the 89 w/ eth.
v-tack was like skeetin' or sumthin....

[twinj]

^^^ lol

[twinj]

E85 is a great cheap race gas (again, if the fuel system is converted to handle it). Since you're not really worried about fuel mileage at that point...

So overall if you had a FFV vehicle that could run it. Would you? Considering the decrease fuel mileage , but cheaper price. I am trying to figure out the benefit. Is it a go or no.

[ct9a gsr]

The only E85 pump I know of near me is the one in Smyrna. I wish Georgia would cater more to E85-users like many other states do... already signed the petition for one to be introduced local to me awhile ago.

I've even thought about storing 20 - 40 gallons of E85 at home and refill the jugs every month. lol

[twinj]

The only E85 pump I know of near me is the one in Smyrna. I wish Georgia would cater more to E85-users like many other states do... already signed the petition for one to be introduced local to me awhile ago.

I've even thought about storing 20 - 40 gallons of E85 at home and refill the jugs every month. lol

I signed the Petition also.

[Echonova]

So overall if you had a FFV vehicle that could run it. Would you? Considering the decrease fuel mileage , but cheaper price. I am trying to figure out the benefit. Is it a go or no.Two words, hell no.

[OhMyGodfather]

so if it doesnt do anything constructive for the economy..then why is it at the pump stations? logical answers please ;)

[Elbow]

Ethanol ftw, many race series use it now.

[§treet_§peed]

liquid oxygen ftw..:D

[blaknoize]

I still think the government is backwards for that. I mean... NOW we're just gonna burn more corn and weeds and ish and not get any further than we were on gasoline in the first place. Plus... since we are using the food stuffs for fuel, the cost of food will go up to offset the drop in price at the pump.

So... once again, we're just loopin around wasting even more gas than before. FUK!

One random idea I would propose is to cut us all off from SUVs and other large trucks unless we, ourselves, have a reason to use them for what they are manufactured for. Then... all those fukin dumb blondes and stupid black folks will be forced to buy smaller, cheaper more fuel efficent automobiles. The fuel needed for BIG trucks would be used just for them. No 93 nothin, just 99hp cars to take u to and from work. If u have lots of kids then buy a van. If u live in Kentucky, raise ur van.

[JDM TYTE YO]

all y'all confusing the **** outta me.. i guess it's something i'll have to research

[Echonova]

so if it doesnt do anything constructive for the economy..then why is it at the pump stations? logical answers please ;)Three card Monte... Don't look at what the other hand is doing... Seriously, Ethanol is not all bad, however the infrastructure is not in place to make it a real viable solution. Ethanol cannot be placed in the pipeline, has to be shipped by truck or train to the bulk plants, requiring what? More fuel to be burned. It takes slightly less than one gallon of gas to make one gallon of Ethanol. So where are the real savings? E85 cannot be put in the same fuel systems currently in use. As stated earlier it is highly corrosive. It has to have a different dispenser equipment and piping (in some cases) than standard operations. Should the underground fuel tank take on water (which is common) you can get Phase Seperation, which is when the Ethanol can absorb no more water. It becomes so heavy the Ethanol is pulled from the gas and lays on the bottom as Ethanol rich water, leaving the base stock gasoline floating on top (oil and water don't mix and water is heavier). Pump that into your car and you won't make it 5 feet from the dispenser. Ethanol is little more than a subsidy for the corn farmers (and how much has the price of corn gone up?). The simple answer to your question is... They have to. With Bush's "Energy Policy" alternative fuel has to make up a percentage of the fuel the bulk plants sell. Ethanol fills that gap. Nevermind the 38 digit "RIN" number that is attached to every gallon of Ethanol to track it. Only the government can think of something like that...38 digits...

[superboost]

so if it doesnt do anything constructive for the economy..then why is it at the pump stations? logical answers please ;)


The corn lobby is incredibly strong. Go look it up. IT does loads for the farmers who have turned corn into a major cash crop.

[ash7]

One random idea I would propose is to cut us all off from SUVs and other large trucks unless we, ourselves, have a reason to use them for what they are manufactured for. Then... all those fukin dumb blondes and stupid black folks will be forced to buy smaller, cheaper more fuel efficent automobiles. The fuel needed for BIG trucks would be used just for them. No 93 nothin, just 99hp cars to take u to and from work. If u have lots of kids then buy a van. If u live in Kentucky, raise ur van.

um, have you heard of European cities with their wimpy Radio Flyer "micro" cars? ...not exactly a place i would want to live. What you're proposing here is almost a Socialist state; telling people what they can, and can't drive, what the manufacturers can, and can't build. How about we just let the free market capitalist system do its thing and regulate via peoples wallets? Drive what you want, this is the United States for the love of pete.

OIL IS NOT A SCARCE COMMODITY, there is more oil here in the United States (and off the coast) than in all of the Middle East. If the environmentalist folks would stop protecting the squirrels in my backyard for two minutes and let us drill in N. Dakota, off the coast of California, and build a refinery or two, gas prices would drop precipitously by at LEAST two dollars.

-jonathan

[superboost]

um, have you heard of European cities with their wimpy Radio Flyer "micro" cars? ...not exactly a place i would want to live. What you're proposing here is almost a Socialist state; telling people what they can, and can't drive, what the manufacturers can, and can't build. How about we just let the free market capitalist system do its thing and regulate via peoples wallets? Drive what you want, this is the United States for the love of pete.

OIL IS NOT A SCARCE COMMODITY, there is more oil here in the United States (and off the coast) than in all of the Middle East. If the environmentalist folks would stop protecting the squirrels in my backyard for two minutes and let us drill in N. Dakota, off the coast of California, and build a refinery or two, gas prices would drop precipitously by at LEAST two dollars.

-jonathan

meh, not quite. We've got great deposits of shale, but not natural in the ground crude. THe price point for turning shale into useable oil is just now beginning to trickle down into a real approachable range. Give it time.

[0p7!mu5]

so totally doubt that its just going to go up until we find another alternative use. Now i would consider doin the flex fuel conversion. i mean it would help if we do convert over better now than latter. Im just wondering if i can still use what i've been using with the converted system. Hell im planning on getting another car and using that as a DD. I mean there are options but if I could max out the fuel usage by tuning flex fuel instead of de tuning the car now why not?

[ash7]

meh, not quite. We've got great deposits of shale, but not natural in the ground crude. THe price point for turning shale into useable oil is just now beginning to trickle down into a real approachable range. Give it time.

Perhaps I overstated the price drop. :) But it would come down non-the-less. And you're right about the shale, last time i checked in Wyoming, Utah, and Colorado have 1.5billion barrels worth of shale oil. :goodjob:

*edit in response to Optimus*
Petroleum oil is the fuel of the United States economy, it's never going to be totally replaced. So there will not be a "conversion" needed "now, rather than later. " lol

-jonathan

[0p7!mu5]

meh, not quite. We've got great deposits of shale, but not natural in the ground crude. THe price point for turning shale into useable oil is just now beginning to trickle down into a real approachable range. Give it time.
your right but the real point is no matter what until we can find another energy source that's cheap for the average consumer to use or switch over to we're going to feel a pinch somewhere be it oil or food. its just inevitable

[ash7]

your right but the real point is no matter what until we can find another energy source that's cheap for the average consumer to use or switch over to we're going to feel a pinch somewhere be it oil or food. its just inevitable

...there is no need to "switch to another source," we have tons of the stuff - if the government laws would allow drilling to get it out of the ground, and/or partially subsidize the processes of getting it refined into gasoline; it would be a lot easier of a situation than it is now.

-jonathan

[mr.koupe]

:stupid:

[0p7!mu5]

or just somehow making a more efficient ethanol. I mean like i said before oil isnt renewable its just putting things off down the road. but yeah i agree we could tap into our resources to a point it would be a lil effective too doin that to make flex fuel and combine that with a hybrid. tuning may be a bit harder but i read that some of those lil electric cars can haul ass

[d16_turbo]

Two words, hell no.

:goodjob: :goodjob: i agree with you

[twinj]

um, have you heard of European cities with their wimpy Radio Flyer "micro" cars? ...not exactly a place i would want to live. What you're proposing here is almost a Socialist state; telling people what they can, and can't drive, what the manufacturers can, and can't build. How about we just let the free market capitalist system do its thing and regulate via peoples wallets? Drive what you want, this is the United States for the love of pete.

OIL IS NOT A SCARCE COMMODITY, there is more oil here in the United States (and off the coast) than in all of the Middle East. If the environmentalist folks would stop protecting the squirrels in my backyard for two minutes and let us drill in N. Dakota, off the coast of California, and build a refinery or two, gas prices would drop precipitously by at LEAST two dollars.

-jonathan

Totally agreed it cannot be said any better. Some Mofo just be talking.




Two words, hell no.

Thanks

[T-Mo Goodie]

here's a little article that I was in about E85 last year from USA Today. I didn't help much because it was all new to me back then (LOL), but after using it, I can tell you that it gets you less miles and cost less thats it. I didn't see any benefits of it.

http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/news/20070823/a_ethanol23.art.htm

[Kamikaze]

QT on Fulton Ind. is also selling the +10% ethanol grade.

[LongLiveH2b]

QT on Fulton Ind. is also selling the +10% ethanol grade.


it's easy to find the 10% mixes, it's like 7 out of 10 gas stations u see now that have that mix, it's just rare to see straight up E85 85% eth. at the pump.

[§treet_§peed]

mutany is the word

[Axix23]

all the cheveron gas stations all have 10% ethanol.. I notice a lot less knocks with cheveron 93 octane..... By the way, I am using Hondata to detect knock levels vs thresholds and knock counts....

[§treet_§peed]

lol funny thing is is that most have been addin ethonal for a long time now

[Echonova]

lol funny thing is is that most have been addin ethonal for a long time now
Since when?????? I bet d16 turbo and I can give you an exact date, since we're in the industry. Not just an un-educated guess...





That is wrong.

[Sunkenkarma]

Hamilton mill Kroger has 10% ethanol blend with all the gas we have, they said all the krogers with fuel centers are going to 10% now, And 10% does nothing bad for cars made after the 70's. ( we have a handbook that answers any questions that customers may have about the mixture)

[UpSideDownDesi]

answer this for me real quick....
as y'all said E85 has higher octane (105) rating so it would be safe to run straight E85 on track days or run nights? Not full tank...just enough to last that time. Or One still needs to convert the fuel system to Flex Fuel and to do so how does it only cost $100??

My car is running rich and def likes higher octane fuel in it. I'll try 93+10% on my next trip to pump and see how does it react.

[§treet_§peed]

Since when?????? I bet d16 turbo and I can give you an exact date, since we're in the industry. Not just an un-educated guess...





That is wrong. i may have been missinformed and if i was my bad bro but thats what i was told one time and it was posted on here as well don't rememeber the thread but i remember some one talking about this same thing and postng about it. lol when i get my GSR swap ready for my car my friend is gonna lend me his GT42R to blow my D16 with..:D for those few seconds it'll be one hell of a beast!!! :Dlolol