HOW IS THIS A$$HOLE STILL BREATHING??

[BABY J]

http://duggmirror.com/politics/What_8_Years_of_Bush_and_Cheney_Have_Done_to_the_U _S_Economy/


* discuss

[TIGERJC]

decrease for African American households under Bush
$2,766

Proof that bush hates black ppl

[SouthSide Tay]

decrease for African American households under Bush
$2,766

Proof that bush hates black ppl
hahaha......^^^^^(kanye wests biggest supporter)


THIS GOES BACK TO EVERYTHING THAT IVE ALWAYS SAID
that the republicans are only benifitial to the RICH not the everyday working man

BUSH is the stupidest man alive in america right now

[BABY J]

^^^ LMAO!!!! CLASSIC!!! SIG-WORTHY

[blackshine007]

Those same people who support Bush is going to support McCain in November. Those numbers alone would suggest to vote democratic. I don't even support Hilary. She's too much of a snake for me to trust. But I like some of her economic polices. There's some things in Obama's economic policies that bother me but I think I'd rather deal with those vs. a group of politicians working together to help the rich get richer and the poor get phucked over. I think McCain will be playing puppet if he gets in just like Bush.

[Spektrewing386]

Basically a lot of republicans dont support mccain either...

McCain and Bush is what you call a neo-conservative, and it freaks out a lot of republicans that he is their only (R) choice.

If you do some researching of McCain on youtube, you'll come up with a lot politic shows that say hes a bad dude to be president.

McCain/Bush is a neo-conservative monster and a lot of republicans have dismissed him from their playground. He wouldnt mind making the entire middle east a parking lot, he is causing a lot of tension with russia, and ive heard some experts say... I quote:

"John McCain will make Di¢k Cheney look like Ghandi."
i use "¢" in his name because of the filter.



For Gods sake, voters of America, don't let our country and our world turn into a dystopia.

http://punchup.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/john_mccain.jpg

[gforce23]

Wow. Just wow.

[MistaCee]

Yes please if McCain becomes president, I am going to pack my bags and move to Jamaica

[Spektrewing386]

Yes please if McCain becomes president, I am going to pack my bags and move to Jamaica



But im pretty sure McCain will send troops to Jamaica because its so close to the US he might consider it a threat to national security, costing the US billions while tripling the cost of sugar and bananas while achieving nothing advantageous in return.

[BB6dohcvtec]

wow......

[SixSquared]

If McCain is elected, I'm taking the Dollar-Euro cut and moving to Europe, even if it means gettin there with $9 in my pocket.

(Ironically enough, 100 years ago, it was the other way around... people were coming to America as the land of opportunity... shoulda saved yourself the trip and just stayed in Europe lol)

[Echonova]

McCain will be president and none of you will move. And to the one to posted " I like Hillary's/Obama's economic policys". More taxes???? Brillant.


For the record: We have no choice, the country is being run by one party now. Oh, you may think they're different. They are playing Three Card Monte with you

[man]

Ironically enough, 100 years ago, it was the other way around... people were coming to America as the land of opportunity... shoulda saved yourself the trip and just stayed in Europe lol

Except for the fact that there are still Europeans moving here...

Don't believe everything the media tells you.

[MistaCee]

But im pretty sure McCain will send troops to Jamaica because its so close to the US he might consider it a threat to national security, costing the US billions while tripling the cost of sugar and bananas while achieving nothing advantageous in return.

Become a banana and sugar farmer:bump:

[KPowerEP3]

If McCain is elected, I'm taking the Dollar-Euro cut and moving to Europe, even if it means gettin there with $9 in my pocket.

(Ironically enough, 100 years ago, it was the other way around... people were coming to America as the land of opportunity... shoulda saved yourself the trip and just stayed in Europe lol)


No you won't, they won't let you in. Unless you plan on moving to Serbia. Most of the well established European countries make sure you have enough money to support yourself before giving a long term visa. Oh yeah, you have to be sponsored to get a work visa, too. Good luck being more qualified than everyone in your field in the EU.

Just FYI.

[Spektrewing386]

lol, it be funny if Americans become the Mexicans of the world... sneeking across Canadian and European borders.

[KPowerEP3]

lol, it be funny if Americans become the Mexicans of the world... sneeking across Canadian and European borders.


Well wouldn't europe make us more like Cubans? You know 9 of us in a raft made of a truck tire, 2 2x4's, and a bicycle inner tube tryin' to make it to Iceland.

[BanginJimmy]

theres alot of people on here that really dont know a thing about politics. No matter what canidate gets in office nothing will change. I love how people think that the bush tax cuts are making the poor poorer. Most of those tax cuts dont affect the poor in any way and the ones that do affect the poor affect them in a positive way.

Next are the repealing of the Bush tax cuts and the start of the Obama tax plan. Most of the wealth in this country is tax free. This is routinely done by owning prperty in a place like the bahamas which has a vastly lower tax bracket for the very rich and o capital gains taxes. These people may live in the US but their banks are overseas and so is there home of record. That money is completely untouchable to the IRS. So when Obama wants to start cutting back on spenidn where do you think he is going to go? It wont be earmarks, he is one of the leaders in the country for dollars and projects. It wont be a social programs, thats where a vast majority of his votes come from. The money will come from all of the national security agencies and military. Hey thats going to be wasted money anyways considering he is going to make nice with all of the worlds tyrants. The of course this is going to be tax increases for those nasty rich people. Well those rich people are rich for a reason. They are smarter than the average politican. They will find ways to decrease the burdens they will have. Then there is the businesses that will need to pay more in taxes. Well, business dont really pay taxes. They simply pass consumers money onto the govt. What they will do is a combination of raise prices and lower wages/raises to make up the difference in their bottom line.

[nreggie454]

theres alot of people on here that really dont know a thing about politics. No matter what canidate gets in office nothing will change. I love how people think that the bush tax cuts are making the poor poorer. Most of those tax cuts dont affect the poor in any way and the ones that do affect the poor affect them in a positive way.

Next are the repealing of the Bush tax cuts and the start of the Obama tax plan. Most of the wealth in this country is tax free. This is routinely done by owning prperty in a place like the bahamas which has a vastly lower tax bracket for the very rich and o capital gains taxes. These people may live in the US but their banks are overseas and so is there home of record. That money is completely untouchable to the IRS. So when Obama wants to start cutting back on spenidn where do you think he is going to go? It wont be earmarks, he is one of the leaders in the country for dollars and projects. It wont be a social programs, thats where a vast majority of his votes come from. The money will come from all of the national security agencies and military. Hey thats going to be wasted money anyways considering he is going to make nice with all of the worlds tyrants. The of course this is going to be tax increases for those nasty rich people. Well those rich people are rich for a reason. They are smarter than the average politican. They will find ways to decrease the burdens they will have. Then there is the businesses that will need to pay more in taxes. Well, business dont really pay taxes. They simply consumers money onto the govt. What they will do is a combination of raise prices and lower wages/raises to make up the difference.

QFT and repped.

[Spektrewing386]

yeah, lets not raise taxes.....






















but continue to dump $12 billion of borrowed money (or just create it) in the toliet every month for the next 4 years.

[man]

yeah, lets not raise taxes.....
but continue to dump $12 billion of borrowed money (or just create it) in the toliet every month for the next 4 years.

Well let's see:

1. Raise taxes - People will *****
2. Continue war - People will *****
3. Lower taxes - People will *****
4. End war - People will *****

Pretty much however you cut it, people will ***** and guess what, it's probably gonna be the poor people. The rich people will continue working their asses off becoming more rich because they dont waste their time bitching.

[BanginJimmy]

Well let's see:

1. Raise taxes - People will *****
2. Continue war - People will *****
3. Lower taxes - People will *****
4. End war - People will *****

Pretty much however you cut it, people will ***** and guess what, it's probably gonna be the poor people. The rich people will continue working their asses off becoming more rich because they dont waste their time bitching.


one of the most intelligent posts I have seen on IA in the 3 years I have been on the site.

[Spektrewing386]

well i guess you have to quantify the amount that people will ***** and see which one results in less *****. then vote for the canidate who will result in less **** on the fan.

[xlilvi3tx]

Well let's see:

1. Raise taxes - People will *****
2. Continue war - People will *****
3. Lower taxes - People will *****
4. End war - People will *****

Pretty much however you cut it, people will ***** and guess what, it's probably gonna be the poor people. The rich people will continue working their asses off becoming more rich because they dont waste their time bitching.

great post. and u got repped.

it doesnt even who becomes presidents imo... either way the country is fu cked. like the guy said, raise tax and continue the war poor people who barely even have enough to support themself and yet alone their family will get mad and end the war and raise taxes the rich wont even mind. the system is exactly like monopoly, buy out all the small companies and leave them out of the game regardless if they die or not. and as u know when u rich and ownin almost the entire gameboard, and u land on the property tax crap, it doesnt even bother u but the unlucky guy who has like two house lands on it, hes fuc ked. so much for "the land of opportunities" the only opportunity u get here is to get shot when the poor gets really desparate.

and also, i heard canada is a great place to live :goodjob:

[Alan®]

I refuse to vote for anybody but McCain. It's funny how Obama and Clinton both want out of Iraq as fast as possible yet Obama's advisor told him that we needed to stay. Pretty ignorant decision if you ask me.

[d993s]

Democrats always think they have the solution.
They don't have sh1t; all they do is condone and preserve the fvcked up lifestyles of ghettos and trailer parks.

[redrumracer]

No you won't, they won't let you in. Unless you plan on moving to Serbia. Most of the well established European countries make sure you have enough money to support yourself before giving a long term visa. Oh yeah, you have to be sponsored to get a work visa, too. Good luck being more qualified than everyone in your field in the EU.

Just FYI.
lol i bet you i dont need a work visa to get into a european country :D :D :D im already a citizen of germany :D

[KPowerEP3]

lol i bet you i dont need a work visa to get into a european country :D :D :D im already a citizen of germany :D


be-low me.

I know all that because I had one of my great Uncles in IE offer to come let me stay for a year or so right after I turned 18. Obviously, due to being a broke, punk ass kid, I couldn't.

[redrumracer]

be-low me.

I know all that because I had one of my great Uncles in IE offer to come let me stay for a year or so right after I turned 18. Obviously, due to being a broke, punk ass kid, I couldn't.
shouldve went over before you were 18

[SouthSide Tay]

You know political dicussion never amazes me on the fact that BOTH th (R) and (D) suck at life but the fact of the matter is that WE have go to pick the lesser of the EVILS. And which one is that....??? well.. who knows, thats for you to decide.

My opinion is that the past 7 years dumba$$(BUSH) has been is office we have accomplished NOTHING! Hell eveyone in this thread read the first post BUT......although that maybe factual information, the source that it came from prolly is a biased one. So they are out to make Dumba$$(BUSH) look bad.

In all honesty NONE OF US KNOW which one of the candidates is going to be able to do a good job. but i have one favor to ask of all of you"if you vote your selected candidate into office and come the 4th year you have a change of heart PLEASE DO NOT VOTE FOR THE SAME PERSON AFTER THEY SCREWED YOU THE FIRST FOUR YEARS"

end rant

[Spektrewing386]

I refuse to vote for anybody but McCain. It's funny how Obama and Clinton both want out of Iraq as fast as possible yet Obama's advisor told him that we needed to stay. Pretty ignorant decision if you ask me.


neither want to "eject" us from iraq like we did in vietnam. Both their plans call for a very gradual reduction over 1.5 years and still after that keep a very small number in country to help in certain areas when needed.

[Bajjani]

One thing people don't take into consideration, and I'm not siding, is that the economy if left alone would go in regular cycles. Our problem is that we don't like the depression part of the cycle so the government keeps trying to fix it with tax breaks this and interest rate reductions blah blah. I don't agree with all of Bush's actions but one reason I'd vote McCain over Hillary/Obama (not saying I will) is if we pulled out of Iraq right now it would destroy that area completely and we'd have to go right back over there.

Also, the black household income went down less than the nation average. Over the last 10 years, its the first time in the history of the U.S. that the median income went down, and it went down I believe roughly $4,500.

[BB6dohcvtec]

One thing people don't take into consideration, and I'm not siding, is that the economy if left alone would go in regular cycles. Our problem is that we don't like the depression part of the cycle so the government keeps trying to fix it with tax breaks this and interest rate reductions blah blah. I don't agree with all of Bush's actions but one reason I'd vote McCain over Hillary/Obama (not saying I will) is if we pulled out of Iraq right now it would destroy that area completely and we'd have to go right back over there.

Also, the black household income went down less than the nation average. Over the last 10 years, its the first time in the history of the U.S. that the median income went down, and it went down I believe roughly $4,500.

who gives a **** about iraq? if we leave and they destroy each other big ****ing deal as long as they keep that **** over there. We need to worry about americans first and ****hole countries last (unless they try and **** with us somemore).

[.::UNKNOWN::.]

screw all the canidates hilary is a lying b****... obama has no experience nobody here would let a rookie tune their car..... and mcain will either die over or turn liberal before the first 4 yrs are over....... i am wanting the libertarian party nomenee to be ex georgia congressman bob barr http://www.bobbarr2008.com and if not i guess there will be one write in vote for Michael Blankinship

[BanginJimmy]

who gives a **** about iraq? if we leave and they destroy each other big ****ing deal as long as they keep that **** over there. We need to worry about americans first and ****hole countries last (unless they try and **** with us somemore).'


are you still going to believe that when gas prices double again because there is more instability in Iraq?

I wonder what its going to take for people to realize that anything that happens in the middle east affects us here. We leave Iraq and Iran will be there before the dust of our tanks settles and they wont be nearly as nice as we are. They will kill anyone and everyone until, regardless of actual involvement, until they have complete control of the country. After that happens they wont stop there.

[BABY J]

hmmmm

[getto301]

Basically a lot of republicans dont support mccain either...

McCain and Bush is what you call a neo-conservative, and it freaks out a lot of republicans that he is their only (R) choice.

If you do some researching of McCain on youtube, you'll come up with a lot politic shows that say hes a bad dude to be president.

McCain/Bush is a neo-conservative monster and a lot of republicans have dismissed him from their playground. He wouldnt mind making the entire middle east a parking lot, he is causing a lot of tension with russia, and ive heard some experts say... I quote:

"John McCain will make Di¢k Cheney look like Ghandi."
i use "¢" in his name because of the filter.



For Gods sake, voters of America, don't let our country and our world turn into a dystopia.



McCaine and Fuzzy math lmao

honestly, the republican party got screwed over this election with pepole shifting their votes to (D) due to bush smearing the republican image even more, I would of perfer atleast Mitt Rommney, who cares if he was a bit weird with his religion, atleast the guy had great record in business lol


'


are you still going to believe that when gas prices double again because there is more instability in Iraq?

I wonder what its going to take for people to realize that anything that happens in the middle east affects us here. We leave Iraq and Iran will be there before the dust of our tanks settles and they wont be nearly as nice as we are. They will kill anyone and everyone until, regardless of actual involvement, until they have complete control of the country. After that happens they wont stop there.

yepp reason for the eisenhower doctrine and the new policies that stem from it.

[R3RUN]

I would of perfer atleast Mitt Rommney, who cares if he was a bit weird with his religion, atleast the guy had great record in business lol
Cheney has a good record in business too, if you have a stake in Haliburton. Being good with business does not mean you will be a good president. Rommney always struck me as a corrupt sack of **** anyway.

No matter what we are ****ed in this election. To be totally honest none of these people are fit to run this country. Hell we would be hard pressed to find anyone on this planet that could turn us around at this point. Where's FDR when you need him?

[R3RUN]

who gives a **** about iraq? if we leave and they destroy each other big ****ing deal as long as they keep that **** over there. We need to worry about americans first and ****hole countries last (unless they try and **** with us somemore).
You are a ****ing idiot. I hate this war just as much as the next guy but we can't just leave. We have no choice now but to stay. Pulling out before Iraq has a stable government is just setting us up for Al-Queda round 2.

[R3RUN]

The of course this is going to be tax increases for those nasty rich people. Well those rich people are rich for a reason. They are smarter than the average politican. They will find ways to decrease the burdens they will have. Then there is the businesses that will need to pay more in taxes. Well, business dont really pay taxes. They simply consumers money onto the govt. What they will do is a combination of raise prices and lower wages/raises to make up the difference.
So instead of taxing them more we should just keep giving them tax cuts because they can single handedly **** us over? Sorry I have a problem with that. How about we start locking up the assholes that are making billions of dollars a year while taking advantage of American citizens. We can start with the guys at Exxon/Mobil. They made what, 93 billion in one quarter after Katrina? I'm sorry but thats the definition of price gouging and all of them belong in jail.

Of course this will never happen though, because the same guys making all this money are the ones that are paying for the politicians to get into office.


**Sorry for the multi-post.

[BanginJimmy]

So instead of taxing them more we should just keep giving them tax cuts because they can single handedly **** us over? Sorry I have a problem with that. How about we start locking up the assholes that are making billions of dollars a year while taking advantage of American citizens. We can start with the guys at Exxon/Mobil. They made what, 93 billion in one quarter after Katrina? I'm sorry but thats the definition of price gouging and all of them belong in jail.

So you are saying that making more money than the next guy should be illegal? That is a great way to keep businesses in America. That means Warren Buffet, Bill Gates and hundreds of others should be locked up.

I'll try this again for the uneducated.

Gas prices are NOT set by the oil companies. Gas prices are a combination of supply and demand, crude oil futures prices, local and federal taxes, gas station profits, and oil company profits.

Supply has gone up at a slow steady pace for the since 2000. Demand has gone up at a MUCH greater rate with the increased use by China, India and the US.

Crude oil futures prices have gone up with no ceiling in site, the oil companies dont have any say in what the futures traders are selling/buying at.

Local and federal taxes account for nearly a dollar a gallon in GA where the state and county work on a percentage base for their tax cut. This is the reason that gas in GA has gone up more than most other places have. I read that there were only like 5 states that used that model.

Gas stations make very little per gallon of gas they sell. I heard it was only about 1-3 cents a gallon depending on where you are.

Oil company profits ahve gone up dramaticly since gas prices started going up. That happens when prices go up and you make a percentage as profit. I believe that average profit per gallon is in the range of 8-10 cents.

Anyone thinks govt can step in and fix this I have a simple challenge for you. Name 1 program that the US govt have conceived and carried out sucessfully. Thats all I ask, just 1 single program.

[Alan®]

So instead of taxing them more we should just keep giving them tax cuts because they can single handedly **** us over? Sorry I have a problem with that. How about we start locking up the assholes that are making billions of dollars a year while taking advantage of American citizens. We can start with the guys at Exxon/Mobil. They made what, 93 billion in one quarter after Katrina? I'm sorry but thats the definition of price gouging and all of them belong in jail.

Of course this will never happen though, because the same guys making all this money are the ones that are paying for the politicians to get into office.


**Sorry for the multi-post.
Actually they mad that in the first quarter of last year. Do you know what the profit margins are on oil? They are nothing compared to other industries. They have to do 10x more sales to make the same kind of money as other industries. That's not price gouging it's simply record sales. Hillary clinton wanted to tax them even more and put it towards an alternative fuel fund. Which in principle sounds like a great idea but the U.S. has the 2nd highest corporate tax rate in the world why should we tax them more and hurt our economy even further. Hillary clinton was quoted saying also that they made far too much money. Correct me if I'm wrong but this is still America where we have a free market Economy right?

[twinj]

damn

[type_r]

We are in massive amounts of debt but adding on taxes obviously isn't going to benefit the working American when the economy is in the ****ter as it is. What needs to be done is the FAIR TAX!!! You dont hear anyone talking about it and I have no idea why. No matter how much of a douchebag McCain happens to be if he actually brought that up in a debate vs. Obama/Hilary(that is if he is well educated on the subject) they wouldn't be able to say a damn thing against it. We need to be taking steps right now to put more money into the pockets of average Americans and dumping massive amounts of taxpayer dollars into social programs and government healthcare isn't the right option. As much as the Republicans are ****ing up right now a SMART republican could help bring the economy back. I personally will be voting for Ron Paul. And to stay on topic with the initial post dubya needs to be shot in the kneecaps. On top of his massive mistakes that are actually in the public eye he most likely was behind 9/11. He is a true ******* and is a detriment to American society.

[allmotoronly]

I am in total favor of the fair tax. I work hard for my money, and there is no reason that someone who makes less should pay a lesser percentage in income tax. It is not my responsibility to pay for the slack asses in this country who sit around wating on their welfare/unemployment/disability checks to make the payment on their $65k escalade.

I agree that Bush is not the greatest president we have had, but not all republicans are like him. Also, people are blaming republicans for iraq, when infact iraq is no different than Vietnam, which was supported heavily by democrats. It was the democrats who kept us in vietnam for 15 years. Also, everyone seems to forget the **** Bill Clinton started in bosnia in the late 90's. We had just as little business getting into their business as we have in iraq. Starting wars is not party related. All presidends go and get into other country's business. The only reason the democrats are so antiwar now is because they know that the american people don't support it. They are jsut fishing for votes. Do you actually believe that those politicians care?????

[0p7!mu5]

fair tax FTW..... Im sorry but with any middle eastern country I have to say this. They are goin to fight no matter what we do. Even if we leave 50 years from now Iraq and afghanistan and Iran and Syria are goin to keep blowing **** up. Same with the Izrael and Palestine. Have they not been doing this for years? Personally I would love to see the day that we dont have to depend on them and put ourselves into such situations but it isnt going to happen. Bush is a moron, true but are we not just as stupid for electing him twice or not going up and electing people in the first place? Gore had the popular vote and still lost. Half of us vote without really reading up on the issues. I think the fair tax is a wonderful Idea. Are people going to *****? Yeah but who cares no matter what anybody thinks we do need taxes period. it pays for all those lil government and state stuff we need like better roads/teachers/ police/ ect. I hate lookin at the 250 bucks that leaves my check every two weeks but hye honestly the average american will just blow that on **** they dont need in the first place. Its all mentality.

[0p7!mu5]

I am in total favor of the fair tax. I work hard for my money, and there is no reason that someone who makes less should pay a lesser percentage in income tax. It is not my responsibility to pay for the slack asses in this country who sit around wating on their welfare/unemployment/disability checks to make the payment on their $65k escalade.

I agree that Bush is not the greatest president we have had, but not all republicans are like him. Also, people are blaming republicans for iraq, when infact iraq is no different than Vietnam, which was supported heavily by democrats. It was the democrats who kept us in vietnam for 15 years. Also, everyone seems to forget the **** Bill Clinton started in bosnia in the late 90's. We had just as little business getting into their business as we have in iraq. Starting wars is not party related. All presidends go and get into other country's business. The only reason the democrats are so antiwar now is because they know that the american people don't support it. They are jsut fishing for votes. Do you actually believe that those politicians care?????
QTF!! Im by no means rich but Im not doin bad for myself eigther. I'll admit when i lived in Jersey I did live around a lot of welfare and section 8 people. hell my fam was even on it when my sister was born. Like i said its all mentality. most folks are so far into the thought that they cant do anything that they dont even try. I admit I wish i could make more than I am now but at 22 making 29k a year and living on my own and not having my mother pay for crap is sounding damn good to me. What most folks dont understand is that some if not a lot of those people dont give a **** at all. SOme people want to do better and thats where i fell the govt needs to step in and help with education especially. If folks dont know that there is better out there they arent goin to go lookin for it so its our job to show people the way and stop bitchin. Its liek with the stimuls checks. How many of us actually saved whatever we didnt spend on bills? Matter of fact how many of us save up period?! There are very few people who know how to budget their money and put themselves in the holes that they are in and then have the nerver to *****. I've been on both ends of the argument and honestly if people want to get out of their situation they'll find a damn way just like they find loopholes in welfare/ss/ect. Same with rich people. The only diffrence is that rich people just know how to be responsible with their damn cash.:2cents:

[TheDarkRacer]

Some one needs to get a suit like IronMan, and run all up through the US gov system and set **** straight...
That is all
~TDR

[allmotoronly]

QTF!! Im by no means rich but Im not doin bad for myself eigther. I'll admit when i lived in Jersey I did live around a lot of welfare and section 8 people. hell my fam was even on it when my sister was born. Like i said its all mentality. most folks are so far into the thought that they cant do anything that they dont even try. I admit I wish i could make more than I am now but at 22 making 29k a year and living on my own and not having my mother pay for crap is sounding damn good to me. What most folks dont understand is that some if not a lot of those people dont give a **** at all. SOme people want to do better and thats where i fell the govt needs to step in and help with education especially. If folks dont know that there is better out there they arent goin to go lookin for it so its our job to show people the way and stop bitchin. Its liek with the stimuls checks. How many of us actually saved whatever we didnt spend on bills? Matter of fact how many of us save up period?! There are very few people who know how to budget their money and put themselves in the holes that they are in and then have the nerver to *****. I've been on both ends of the argument and honestly if people want to get out of their situation they'll find a damn way just like they find loopholes in welfare/ss/ect. Same with rich people. The only diffrence is that rich people just know how to be responsible with their damn cash.:2cents:


True... so why punish those who are good with money?

also, **** those stimulus checks. Its really not very fair unless everyone gets them. Hell if you make decent money, again you are punished and don't get a stimulus check.

[R3RUN]

So you are saying that making more money than the next guy should be illegal? That is a great way to keep businesses in America. That means Warren Buffet, Bill Gates and hundreds of others should be locked up.

I'll try this again for the uneducated.

Gas prices are NOT set by the oil companies. Gas prices are a combination of supply and demand, crude oil futures prices, local and federal taxes, gas station profits, and oil company profits.

Supply has gone up at a slow steady pace for the since 2000. Demand has gone up at a MUCH greater rate with the increased use by China, India and the US.

Crude oil futures prices have gone up with no ceiling in site, the oil companies dont have any say in what the futures traders are selling/buying at.

Local and federal taxes account for nearly a dollar a gallon in GA where the state and county work on a percentage base for their tax cut. This is the reason that gas in GA has gone up more than most other places have. I read that there were only like 5 states that used that model.

Gas stations make very little per gallon of gas they sell. I heard it was only about 1-3 cents a gallon depending on where you are.

Oil company profits ahve gone up dramaticly since gas prices started going up. That happens when prices go up and you make a percentage as profit. I believe that average profit per gallon is in the range of 8-10 cents.

Anyone thinks govt can step in and fix this I have a simple challenge for you. Name 1 program that the US govt have conceived and carried out sucessfully. Thats all I ask, just 1 single program.
I'm not saying that making more money than the next guy should be illegal, I am saying that screwing the average citizen in order to turn a profit is not a good way to do business and there needs to be actual legal repercussions for these kinds of actions, not bull**** sentences that leave you at Club Fed for a couple of years. Bill Gates is lucky he hasn't gotten locked up, and at least the guy gives a **** ton of money to charity.

Supply has not gone up steadily since 2000. OPEC Dropped production ALOT in 2000 and not until 2004 did we surpass the original supply mark. (Edit: I can't figure out how to link these damn pages, the main link is at the bottom of the page, link 1). Now for some basic economics. As you have seen if you clicked the link, production has actually surpassed the point it was at in 2000 yet gas prices are about 3 times higher. This would make perfect since if demand in the U.S. had risen dramatically between 2000 and 2006 (I can only find data up to 2006). Here's the problem. It didn't. In fact between 2005-2006 there was actually a drop in consumption of oil in the U.S. Do you see a problem with gas being $3.XX a gallon now? I do, even saying that $1 is taxes and the gas station takes 3 cents that leaves the oil company bringing in $2.XX a gallon which I'm sure easily covers their costs with a lot of room to spare. I understand that China and India have increased consumption drastically in recent years/months but I guarantee you that it does not warrant a 109%(2) increase in global oil prices between January of 2007 and now.

Now for the retail price of gasoline in a couple of OPEC countries (as of 2006). Careful, you might **** yourself when you read these prices. These are gasoline prices per barrel in USD.

Iran: $17.35
United Arab Emirates: $59.52

Obviously these countries are producing pretty high amounts of oil and thus will be cheaper because they don't have to ship it anywhere or get a middle man involved. I'm also assuming that these numbers have risen a bit over the past year and a half. Even if they rose 77%(2) like we've seen in this country over the past year that would still make them much absurdly cheap compared to the U.S. and most other countries.

I really wish I had numbers for 2007 and 2008 so far, if anyone knows where they are link me too them. I want to see whether or not this jump up to $120+ was even logical.

The way I see it is that money has corrupted the market place. The people in control of the oil companies, oil producing countries, and oil markets are using their positions to make tremendous amounts of money at the expense of the consumer. It was bound to happen eventually and it will keep going until people finally get so pissed off they tell anyone that mentions oil to go to hell. The guys on top of oil control a limited natural resource that is required by all major global economies at this point in time. It's a situation that provides for an almost endless profit margin to those that place money above morals and ethics. In short, its like diamonds, a couple people realized the money they could make by cornering the market and convincing people that this precious resource is in short supply, we all let it happen and there really isn't much that can be done about it now.

1)http://www.opec.org/library/Annual%20Statistical%20Bulletin/interactive/FileZ/Main.htm
2)http://www.forbes.com/home/2008/05/27/gas-inflation-china-oped-cx_dhs_0528oilchina.html


Also in regards to my last sentence, I know that oil is not a rapidly renewable resource and that if we do not carefully regulate production and sale of it we will eventually run out. How soon? Who knows. Personally I don't think nearly enough time, effort, or money is being invested in alternative energy sources. I would really like to see this country move away from oil even if its just in the trucking industry. Widespread use of an affordable alternatively powered Semi truck in this country and in developing powerhouses like China and India would not only reduce oil demand tremendously but it would also reduce costs of most consumer products due to decreased shipping costs.

RedGT- So a lower profit margin justifies some of the most outrageous rate hikes in history? Think back to what happened after hurricane Katrina. Before the damn storm even hit the oil companies started shutting down oil rigs and refineries that were anywhere near the Gulf of Mexico. That is all fine and dandy, I wouldn't want my people out there either, but it was a crime to report gas shortages and raise prices as high as they did. Exxon/Mobil made just under $11 billion in profit for that quarter. Basically they made one of the largest profits in history while telling all of us there was a "shortage". By your logic this means that they outright lied to everyone, caused a frenzy in the media to boost sales and walked away filthy rich. That, sir, is the definition of price gouging and irresponsible business practices. Lets not forget that the only reason prices didn't go higher than they did during that time was because many states set a price cap per gallon which not only kept costs down for consumers but also lowered their profit margin. As for Hillary, she would leave us worse off than Bush has so I won't argue with you about her being a dumb ass. And yes, this is a free market economy, but taking a laissez-faire attitude towards corporate criminals that are pulling down our economy is not part of a healthy free market economy.

[Jimmy B]

GOOOOO McCain!!!!!!!!!! and im Soo glad that bush has been in office.. what did you want instead? KERRY?? HA!

[Spektrewing386]

............



are you being sarcastic?

[Jimmy B]

no sir.. i will be voting for mccain, i still wish that huckabee would have made it to this point though

[Spektrewing386]

i was mainly refering to the part "Soo glad that bush has been in office"

[Jimmy B]

no, i AM glad that he has been there.. i would not have wanted anyone else, and i am one of the percentage that approves of him still

[BABY J]

I'm not saying that making more money than the next guy should be illegal, I am saying that screwing the average citizen in order to turn a profit is not a good way to do business and there needs to be actual legal repercussions for these kinds of actions, not bull**** sentences that leave you at Club Fed for a couple of years. Bill Gates is lucky he hasn't gotten locked up, and at least the guy gives a **** ton of money to charity.

Supply has not gone up steadily since 2000. OPEC Dropped production ALOT in 2000 and not until 2004 did we surpass the original supply mark. (Edit: I can't figure out how to link these damn pages, the main link is at the bottom of the page, link 1). Now for some basic economics. As you have seen if you clicked the link, production has actually surpassed the point it was at in 2000 yet gas prices are about 3 times higher. This would make perfect since if demand in the U.S. had risen dramatically between 2000 and 2006 (I can only find data up to 2006). Here's the problem. It didn't. In fact between 2005-2006 there was actually a drop in consumption of oil in the U.S. Do you see a problem with gas being $3.XX a gallon now? I do, even saying that $1 is taxes and the gas station takes 3 cents that leaves the oil company bringing in $2.XX a gallon which I'm sure easily covers their costs with a lot of room to spare. I understand that China and India have increased consumption drastically in recent years/months but I guarantee you that it does not warrant a 109%(2) increase in global oil prices between January of 2007 and now.

Now for the retail price of gasoline in a couple of OPEC countries (as of 2006). Careful, you might **** yourself when you read these prices. These are gasoline prices per barrel in USD.

Iran: $17.35
United Arab Emirates: $59.52

Obviously these countries are producing pretty high amounts of oil and thus will be cheaper because they don't have to ship it anywhere or get a middle man involved. I'm also assuming that these numbers have risen a bit over the past year and a half. Even if they rose 77%(2) like we've seen in this country over the past year that would still make them much absurdly cheap compared to the U.S. and most other countries.

I really wish I had numbers for 2007 and 2008 so far, if anyone knows where they are link me too them. I want to see whether or not this jump up to $120+ was even logical.

The way I see it is that money has corrupted the market place. The people in control of the oil companies, oil producing countries, and oil markets are using their positions to make tremendous amounts of money at the expense of the consumer. It was bound to happen eventually and it will keep going until people finally get so pissed off they tell anyone that mentions oil to go to hell. The guys on top of oil control a limited natural resource that is required by all major global economies at this point in time. It's a situation that provides for an almost endless profit margin to those that place money above morals and ethics. In short, its like diamonds, a couple people realized the money they could make by cornering the market and convincing people that this precious resource is in short supply, we all let it happen and there really isn't much that can be done about it now.

1)http://www.opec.org/library/Annual%20Statistical%20Bulletin/interactive/FileZ/Main.htm
2)http://www.forbes.com/home/2008/05/27/gas-inflation-china-oped-cx_dhs_0528oilchina.html


Also in regards to my last sentence, I know that oil is not a rapidly renewable resource and that if we do not carefully regulate production and sale of it we will eventually run out. How soon? Who knows. Personally I don't think nearly enough time, effort, or money is being invested in alternative energy sources. I would really like to see this country move away from oil even if its just in the trucking industry. Widespread use of an affordable alternatively powered Semi truck in this country and in developing powerhouses like China and India would not only reduce oil demand tremendously but it would also reduce costs of most consumer products due to decreased shipping costs.

RedGT- So a lower profit margin justifies some of the most outrageous rate hikes in history? Think back to what happened after hurricane Katrina. Before the damn storm even hit the oil companies started shutting down oil rigs and refineries that were anywhere near the Gulf of Mexico. That is all fine and dandy, I wouldn't want my people out there either, but it was a crime to report gas shortages and raise prices as high as they did. Exxon/Mobil made just under $11 billion in profit for that quarter. Basically they made one of the largest profits in history while telling all of us there was a "shortage". By your logic this means that they outright lied to everyone, caused a frenzy in the media to boost sales and walked away filthy rich. That, sir, is the definition of price gouging and irresponsible business practices. Lets not forget that the only reason prices didn't go higher than they did during that time was because many states set a price cap per gallon which not only kept costs down for consumers but also lowered their profit margin. As for Hillary, she would leave us worse off than Bush has so I won't argue with you about her being a dumb ass. And yes, this is a free market economy, but taking a laissez-faire attitude towards corporate criminals that are pulling down our economy is not part of a healthy free market economy.

Will you marry me?

+ F*CKIN 1

[Alan®]

RedGT- So a lower profit margin justifies some of the most outrageous rate hikes in history? Think back to what happened after hurricane Katrina. Before the damn storm even hit the oil companies started shutting down oil rigs and refineries that were anywhere near the Gulf of Mexico. That is all fine and dandy, I wouldn't want my people out there either, but it was a crime to report gas shortages and raise prices as high as they did. Exxon/Mobil made just under $11 billion in profit for that quarter. Basically they made one of the largest profits in history while telling all of us there was a "shortage". By your logic this means that they outright lied to everyone, caused a frenzy in the media to boost sales and walked away filthy rich. That, sir, is the definition of price gouging and irresponsible business practices. Lets not forget that the only reason prices didn't go higher than they did during that time was because many states set a price cap per gallon which not only kept costs down for consumers but also lowered their profit margin. As for Hillary, she would leave us worse off than Bush has so I won't argue with you about her being a dumb ass. And yes, this is a free market economy, but taking a laissez-faire attitude towards corporate criminals that are pulling down our economy is not part of a healthy free market economy.

There was a shortage because they shut down all the production facilities and our supply was simply what ever was in the lines. Also if you reacall most of the Price gouging was done by the gas stations themselves and not Shell corporate or Exon/Mobil. There were places on the northside that were selling gas at $5+ a gallon. So my question to you being is who are the corporate criminals in the oil industry.

[BanginJimmy]

I'm not saying that making more money than the next guy should be illegal, I am saying that screwing the average citizen in order to turn a profit is not a good way to do business and there needs to be actual legal repercussions for these kinds of actions, not bull**** sentences that leave you at Club Fed for a couple of years.

who has committed what crime that they should be locked up for it?


Supply has not gone up steadily since 2000. OPEC Dropped production ALOT in 2000 and not until 2004 did we surpass the original supply mark. (Edit: I can't figure out how to link these damn pages, the main link is at the bottom of the page, link 1). Now for some basic economics. As you have seen if you clicked the link, production has actually surpassed the point it was at in 2000 yet gas prices are about 3 times higher. This would make perfect since if demand in the U.S. had risen dramatically between 2000 and 2006 (I can only find data up to 2006). Here's the problem. It didn't. In fact between 2005-2006 there was actually a drop in consumption of oil in the U.S. Do you see a problem with gas being $3.XX a gallon now? I do, even saying that $1 is taxes and the gas station takes 3 cents that leaves the oil company bringing in $2.XX a gallon which I'm sure easily covers their costs with a lot of room to spare. I understand that China and India have increased consumption drastically in recent years/months but I guarantee you that it does not warrant a 109%(2) increase in global oil prices between January of 2007 and now.

talk to the futures traders about that. The simple fact is that the futures traders on wall st. have just as much power over the cost of a gallon of gas as OPEC does. That huge increase in oil consumption by China and India is no small amount either.

"Both of Asia's rising powers desperately need energy. China today imports roughly half its oil. Consumption rose by 15% last year and is forecast to jump by an additional 9% this year. By 2025, China will burn through 14.2 million barrels a day, double this year's level, the U.S. Energy Dept. predicts. India's oil imports are expected to rise to some 5 million barrels a day by 2020, from around 1.4 million barrels at present."

full article:
http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/aug2005/nf20050825_4692_db016.htm?chan=gb




The way I see it is that money has corrupted the market place. The people in control of the oil companies, oil producing countries, and oil markets are using their positions to make tremendous amounts of money at the expense of the consumer. It was bound to happen eventually and it will keep going until people finally get so pissed off they tell anyone that mentions oil to go to hell. The guys on top of oil control a limited natural resource that is required by all major global economies at this point in time. It's a situation that provides for an almost endless profit margin to those that place money above morals and ethics. In short, its like diamonds, a couple people realized the money they could make by cornering the market and convincing people that this precious resource is in short supply, we all let it happen and there really isn't much that can be done about it now.

this is from a washington post article from Oct 28. 2005

"Mobil's gross margin of 9.8 cents of profit for every dollar of revenue pales in comparison to Citigroup Inc.'s 15.7 cents in 2004. By percentage of total revenue, banking is consistently the most profitable industry in America, followed closely by the drug industry.

Altria Group, the maker of Marlboro and other cigarettes, made 22 cents for every dollar of revenue in 2004, and pharmaceutical company Merck made 25.3 cents for every dollar of revenue in 2004."

Also stated was the Exxon was #127 in profit margin among fortune 500 corporations worldwide. I guess this is proof positive that they are gouging the consumers to death.

full article:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/27/AR2005102702399.html



RedGT- So a lower profit margin justifies some of the most outrageous rate hikes in history? Think back to what happened after hurricane Katrina. Before the damn storm even hit the oil companies started shutting down oil rigs and refineries that were anywhere near the Gulf of Mexico. That is all fine and dandy, I wouldn't want my people out there either, but it was a crime to report gas shortages and raise prices as high as they did. Exxon/Mobil made just under $11 billion in profit for that quarter. Basically they made one of the largest profits in history while telling all of us there was a "shortage". By your logic this means that they outright lied to everyone, caused a frenzy in the media to boost sales and walked away filthy rich. That, sir, is the definition of price gouging and irresponsible business practices. Lets not forget that the only reason prices didn't go higher than they did during that time was because many states set a price cap per gallon which not only kept costs down for consumers but also lowered their profit margin. As for Hillary, she would leave us worse off than Bush has so I won't argue with you about her being a dumb ass. And yes, this is a free market economy, but taking a laissez-faire attitude towards corporate criminals that are pulling down our economy is not part of a healthy free market economy.

again, oil companies set their profit margin only. The rest of the price of gas is raw materials, transportation, taxes(both corporate and excise), future R&D and exploration, and human resources.

that means that when you spend $4.00 for a gallon of gas Exxon is going to make $0.392, but on that $4.00 pack of smokes, the manufacturer is making $0.88. I wonder why no one is crying to congress about the cost of a pack of smokes.