Iraq: Did You Know

[Brett]

Did you know?

I didn't know!

How could we?



Did you know that 47 countries' have
reestablished their embassies in Iraq ?



Did you know that the Iraqi government
currently employs 1.2 million Iraqi people?



Did you know

that 3100 schools have been renovated,
364 schools are under rehabilitation,
263 new schools are now under construction;
and 38 new schools have been completed in Iraq ?


Did you know

that Iraq 's higher educational structure consists
of 20 Universities, 46 Institutes or colleges and 4 research centers,
all currently operating?





Did you know
that 25 Iraq students departed for the United States in
January 2005 for the re-established Fulbright program?





Did you know
that the Iraqi Navy is operational?
They have 5 - 100-foot patrol craft,
34 smaller vessels and a naval infantry regiment.





Did you know
that Iraq ' s Air Force consists of three operational squadrons,
Which includes 9 reconnaissance and 3 US C-130 transport aircraft
(under Iraqi operational control) which operate day and night,
and will soon add 16 UH-1 helicopters and 4 Bell Jet Rangers?






Did you know
that Iraq has a counter-terrorist unit and a Commando Battalion?






Did you know
that the Iraqi Police Service has over 55,000
fully trained and equipped police officers?



Did you know
that there are 5 Police Academies in Iraq
that produce over 3500 new officers every 8 weeks?





Did you know
there are more than 1100 building projects going on in Iraq ?
They include 364 schools, 67 public clinics, 15 hospitals,
83 railroad stations, 22 oil facilities, 93 water facilities
and 69 electrical facilities.





Did you know
that 96% of Iraqi children under the age of 5
have received the first 2 series of polio vaccinations?





Did you know
that 4.3 million Iraqi children were enrolled in primary school by mid October?





Did you know
that there are 1,192,000 cell phone subscribers in Iraq
and phone use has gone up 158%?





Did you know
that Iraq has an independent media that consists of
75 radio stations, 180 newspapers and 10 television stations?






Did you know
that the Baghdad Stock Exchange opened in June of 2004?






Did you know
that 2 candidates in the Iraqi presidential election had a
televised debate recently?






OF COURSE WE DIDN'T KNOW!






WHY DIDN'T WE KNOW?






BECAUSE OUR MEDIA WON'T TELL US!





Instead of reflecting our love for our country,
w e get photos of flag burning incidents at Abu Ghraib
and people throwing snowballs at the presidential motorcades.



Tragically, the lack of accentuating the positive
in Iraq serves two purposes:



It is intended to undermine the world's perception
of the United States thus minimizing consequent support;
and it is intended to discourage American citizens.




----
Above facts are verifiable on the Department of Defense web site.

http://www.defenselink.mil/

[Ran]

I didn't know.

[Got Milk?]

wow, i didnt know any of that stuff. Pretty good stuff. reps

[95alty]

Did you know that from experience... those iraqi "commandos/cops/dummys" cant shoot for Sh*t and are the dumbest group of people to work with

Did you know most of the iraqi police run when their is live fire combat

Did you know most of those schools house terrorist children

Did you know those iraqi commandos cause most of the friendly fire amongst themselves?

Did you know i cant stand working with those homos?

[bafbrian]

Did you know that from experience... those iraqi "commandos/cops/dummys" cant shoot for Sh*t and are the dumbest group of people to work with

Did you know most of the iraqi police run when their is live fire combat

Did you know most of those schools house terrorist children

Did you know those iraqi commandos cause most of the friendly fire amongst themselves?

Did you know i cant stand working with those homos?

So, how long have they been conducting these operations by themselves ?

How long has the US Military ?

When compared to the US Military, or any established military, of course they aren't gonna be as secure with their actions. This coming from a member of the US Army, myself. But, you are entitled to your opinion.

[RutRoe]

So, just to play devil's advocate....

Brett- you didn't witness all of these things first hand, correct? you're going on what someone else has reported to you....

I'm not saying any of those are right or wrong, but I believe them just as much as I believed "Mission Accomplished" from our very own President a few YEARS ago.

Believe it or not, there's so much crap like that where people put their own spin on stuff, positive or negative, it's really hard to believe.

Again, not saying some or all of those aren't true in some way, but if you heard about it, it was probably from a media source, therefor you can only still believe so much of it, just like anything else in the news.

A grain of salt should be taken with all news. Just like your above copy and pasted report.

If you ever want to get down to why people are still so upset about what's happening over there, in the end, I don't believe it's all about money or "lies" that got us over there or anything else but the fact that young people go over there ever single day and get killed. That's my 2 pennies. If no one was getting killed, we'd have a much different political atmosphere, but in the end, people are dying... and others are asking "for what ?"

[Sledlude]

^werd

[TIGERJC]

But do know who is Paying for all that? Americans

Do you know who is in debt? U.S.

[BKgen®]

Did you know nobody cares?

[tony]

If Iraq was some 3rd world country and not one of the largest Oil Producers in the world I would be impressed.

We claim that Iraq had technology to build Nuclear weapons but would like to believe they could not send their children to school?

I was installing lines for a soldier who just came back and I asked her if the media reports accurately about Iraq, verbatim she said to me "No, its worse." I hardly think Iraq was in great despair before we invaded.

[JITB]

how many of that stuff is repairing what was ruined..

[soul]

So, just to play devil's advocate....

Brett- you didn't witness all of these things first hand, correct? you're going on what someone else has reported to you....

I'm not saying any of those are right or wrong, but I believe them just as much as I believed "Mission Accomplished" from our very own President a few YEARS ago.

Believe it or not, there's so much crap like that where people put their own spin on stuff, positive or negative, it's really hard to believe.

Again, not saying some or all of those aren't true in some way, but if you heard about it, it was probably from a media source, therefor you can only still believe so much of it, just like anything else in the news.

A grain of salt should be taken with all news. Just like your above copy and pasted report.

If you ever want to get down to why people are still so upset about what's happening over there, in the end, I don't believe it's all about money or "lies" that got us over there or anything else but the fact that young people go over there ever single day and get killed. That's my 2 pennies. If no one was getting killed, we'd have a much different political atmosphere, but in the end, people are dying... and others are asking "for what ?"
6 year long war and only 4200 or so deaths, pretty fuc king good war if you ask me

[BKgen®]

Believe it or not, there's so much crap like that where people put their own spin on stuff, positive or negative, it's really hard to believe.

lol, true -- just go to wikipedia...

[Brett]

So, just to play devil's advocate....

Brett- you didn't witness all of these things first hand, correct? you're going on what someone else has reported to you....

I'm not saying any of those are right or wrong, but I believe them just as much as I believed "Mission Accomplished" from our very own President a few YEARS ago.

Believe it or not, there's so much crap like that where people put their own spin on stuff, positive or negative, it's really hard to believe.

Again, not saying some or all of those aren't true in some way, but if you heard about it, it was probably from a media source, therefor you can only still believe so much of it, just like anything else in the news.

A grain of salt should be taken with all news. Just like your above copy and pasted report.

If you ever want to get down to why people are still so upset about what's happening over there, in the end, I don't believe it's all about money or "lies" that got us over there or anything else but the fact that young people go over there ever single day and get killed. That's my 2 pennies. If no one was getting killed, we'd have a much different political atmosphere, but in the end, people are dying... and others are asking "for what ?"

I didnt write it, I just posted it because when I read it, I thought it was interesting

[Doppelgänger]

6 year long war and only 4200 or so deaths, pretty fuc king good war if you ask me
Dumbass of the day award goes to you. 4200 completely avoidable deaths.

Yup, 4000 dead US soldiers for NO GOOD REASON.
****ty economy, for NO GOOD REASON

It seems that the reason for the invasion was NO GOOD REASON.

**** Bush.

[soul]

Dumbass of the day award goes to you. 4200 completely avoidable deaths.

Yup, 4000 dead US soldiers for NO GOOD REASON.
****ty economy, for NO GOOD REASON

It seems that the reason for the invasion was NO GOOD REASON.

**** Bush.
your a dumbass. i didnt mention economy or anything, just posting a statistical fact about the war. compare it to anyother pointless war weve been in....

f cuk you dumbass go get high

[blaknoize]

^Yes I also believe it was for no good reason. Yea yea yea, we can all debate about the 3 random planes that managed to take down 2 towers meant to take hits and somehow land right in FRONT of the Pentagon. But this is a fight over oil, which obviously isnt getting cheaper. Out of all the oil we have used while fighting a war over oil. Nothing has been accomplished.

[soul]

^Yes I also believe it was for no good reason. Yea yea yea, we can all debate about the 3 random planes that managed to take down 2 towers meant to take hits and somehow land right in FRONT of the Pentagon. But this is a fight over oil, which obviously isnt getting cheaper. Out of all the oil we have used while fighting a war over oil. Nothing has been accomplished.
were doing the same thing thats been going on for thousands of years, and thats to unite and instill democracy in the middle east for personal an global benefact, nothing new going on....

[tony]

Dumbass of the day award goes to you. 4200 completely avoidable deaths.

Yup, 4000 dead US soldiers for NO GOOD REASON.
****ty economy, for NO GOOD REASON

It seems that the reason for the invasion was NO GOOD REASON.

**** Bush.


It's refreshing to know SOME people get it. Again I think some of you act like this is a video game.. where death is just a number. THESE ARE AMERICAN LIVES! Brothers, Sons, Fathers.. Mothers, Sisters and Daughters, let me make it more human for you.

http://defendersoftheplanet.org/Images/IraqWar/FlagCaskets/Caskets_01.jpg

http://blog.800hightech.com/wp-content/uploads/iraq-military-funneral-marine.jpg

http://webzoom.freewebs.com/kennyerj/FallenIraqSoilders.jpg

http://www.iraqslogger.com/images_full_column/77578788_10.jpg

http://www.rense.com/1.imagesG/BUSHArmyinIRAQ2_jpg.jpg

[BKgen®]

It's refreshing to know SOME people get it. Again I think some of you act like this is a video game.. where death is just a number. THESE ARE AMERICAN LIVES! Brothers, Sons, Fathers.. Mothers, Sisters and Daughters, let me make it more human for you.

+whatever i give.

this why nobody likes you, soul.

[blaknoize]

Bunch of Duke Nukem fans counting us all as numbers not people.

[soul]

It's refreshing to know SOME people get it. Again I think some of you act like this is a video game.. where death is just a number. THESE ARE AMERICAN LIVES! Brothers, Sons, Fathers.. Mothers, Sisters and Daughters, let me make it more human for you.

http://defendersoftheplanet.org/Images/IraqWar/FlagCaskets/Caskets_01.jpg

http://blog.800hightech.com/wp-content/uploads/iraq-military-funneral-marine.jpg

http://webzoom.freewebs.com/kennyerj/FallenIraqSoilders.jpg

http://www.iraqslogger.com/images_full_column/77578788_10.jpg

http://www.rense.com/1.imagesG/BUSHArmyinIRAQ2_jpg.jpg
ok.........i understand that, but also understand when enlisting in the military unless your a complete f ucktard you should understand the fact along as anyone else should, DEATH is a risk you sign up for and knowingly aknowledge and have to deal with., get the f uck over it

[DESTRO_91]

From experience, Iraq is a really bad country. And from the perspective of the average service member who has served over there; chances are they saw absolutely no difference in the country from the day they got there to the day they left, but you constantly hear commanders say that the country is in a better state. Point is, the scope of this war is well beyond the ramblings of the people on this forum, service members included (myself, active duty army, served in iraq twice). We will never be "in the know" as to what is really going on and why. It frustrates me to even think about it. Being in the medical field, my job is to support my fellow soldiers and keep them alive, even though I have a million "why's" in my head. Thanks to all those who support us no matter what.

[blaknoize]

Why cant we be the country that RESOLVES issues, not makes them. I mean, we are pros at that. Punkin other countries, talkin trash, pissin on their flowers. But why cant we resolve issues. (I'm not going into detail, cuz I dont have facts) but still. All u see and hear from this country is killing and stealing. And all we have to show is a large amount of debt that this generation and the next is going to have to deal with, cuz some dumbass likes to fight.

I wonder if I'll even be able to retire safely sometimes... hearing news that our SS fund is giving out more than its recieving.

[Reaper]

It's sad that you all view your OWN country in the manner that you do. Clearly you believe what you see in the mainstream media and dont think for yourself. Your the type of person who is so ashamed of your own country and makes it worse on everyone else. This is why, like RUT said take it with a grain of salt...I personally say take the media with a shot of pincillin. It's all mistconstrued to make our President and our country look bad. I'm not a fan of Bush but things could be a hell of a lot worse.

And just for ya'll who think we "police" the world and we always start fights but never better anything or "resolve" anything...Look at Korea. North Korea vs. South Korea and try to tell me that the Korean war was pointless. Yes we lost 52,000 SOLDIERS(my grandfather being one of them) but I PROMISE there are over 34million Koreans that will disagree with you, that are active and bettering themselves, there country and the world.

[Reaper]

here's what my cousin has to say about all this...

I am currenlty stationed in Iraq and got a chance to read this forum through a link I got from my cousin. First things first, you talk about all that building being done and the Iraqi Army and the Iraq Police being trained and puttin out recruits..who do you think builds the buildings? trains the police and the army? who teaches them to fly these jets and helicopters..I'll tell you who..The American service memebers. Another point is about all the "pointless deaths" that's bull**** because if any American dies in a foreign conflict then it's not pointless at all..and I dont have the exact statictics but I'd say atleast 70% of the losses we've had in this war are from men and women who enlisted after 9/11 and knew full well that they we're gonna deploy and ran the risk of being killed. I know I thought that when I signed the papers but it's something you get used too and you learn to live with being here. It's been 7 months since i've seen my friends or family and my girl..but I do it because I love my country and want to see it stay safe! I understand many peoples anger about the war..I just ask you don't take you're hate to the Service memebers..ESP those who've served or are currently serving in Iraq because believe me friend they've been through Hell and back and the last thing they need is Ridicule.. I thank you for hearing me out if you took the time to read this..and James stay strong and I'll be seein ya and the rest of the family in June....Sincerly, Spc Brian M. Bennett

[Frög]

wow this is the biggest load of fu.cking crap i have ever seen on this site..

haha we were supposed to be there for "couple months, but no longer than 6 months"

lol we are going down, if we are doing so good, why are we thinking of leaving? get real, stop reading this bias BS..

[Reaper]

wow this is the biggest load of fu.cking crap i have ever seen on this site..

haha we were supposed to be there for "couple months, but no longer than 6 months"

lol we are going down, if we are doing so good, why are we thinking of leaving? get real, stop reading this bias BS..


were not thinking of leaving, there is too much invested in the re-building and building process to just pack up and go. Believe it or not, the people there love the troops..

[TIGERJC]

Yea we can't leave iraq, because it more of a threat to the U.S and our interest than it ever was under Saddam rule.

[Frög]

Above facts are verifiable on the Department of Defense web site.

http://www.defenselink.mil/

thats not a bias source.. :thinking:

can't use bias sources..

the fact is, war in Iraq is not going well.. we know it, the world knows it.. now why try to make something that is harming our country look positive?

its not because of pity things, or news of protest with burning flags! we get those same acts on our soil all the time!!!!!!

[Frög]

were not thinking of leaving, there is too much invested in the re-building and building process to just pack up and go. Believe it or not, the people there love the troops..



Yea we can't leave iraq, because it more of a threat to the U.S and our interest than it ever was under Saddam rule.

of course we can't leave.. it will be civil war between all the different tribes if we leave..

[redrumracer]

Dumbass of the day award goes to you. 4200 completely avoidable deaths.

Yup, 4000 dead US soldiers for NO GOOD REASON.
****ty economy, for NO GOOD REASON

It seems that the reason for the invasion was NO GOOD REASON.

**** Bush.
lol yall say **** bush but yet bush doesnt control the economy. the economy did take a turn for the worse till we had a democratic controlled congress. 4200 soldiers dead for no good reason, tell that to all the thousands that were killed in iraq just for having an opinion. yea its not our country but being the only real superpower left is a big responsibility, so no only 4200 isnt that bad for a 6 year war. so before yall condemn bush lets take a look at who really has power in theis country. a spokesperson with a little power or whole group of people that vote and decide how things run. and of course there will be a liberal response to this, saying its not our fault(liberals are used to placing blame instead of taking it)

[Sledlude]

6 year long war and only 4200 or so deaths, pretty fuc king good war if you ask me

DUDE? u crazy.
4200 deaths is not 'good' no matter how you spin it. did you happen to know any of those people? jack ass.

and these are just American soldiers that have died... countless Iraqis have been killed, as well as service men and women from other countries.

[tony]

lol yall say **** bush but yet bush doesnt control the economy. the economy did take a turn for the worse till we had a democratic controlled congress. 4200 soldiers dead for no good reason, tell that to all the thousands that were killed in iraq just for having an opinion. yea its not our country but being the only real superpower left is a big responsibility, so no only 4200 isnt that bad for a 6 year war. so before yall condemn bush lets take a look at who really has power in theis country. a spokesperson with a little power or whole group of people that vote and decide how things run. and of course there will be a liberal response to this, saying its not our fault(liberals are used to placing blame instead of taking it)

Your first mistake is that you see this entire issue as Partisan and not International Policy. People who cannot take responsibility for their actions almost immediately point the finger, you prove this point very well. This isn't a democrat or "liberal" issue.. I myself voted for Bush twice and can say I was wrong. You "conservatives" like to praise Reagan so much but Reagan believed in working across party lines.. this conflicts with the reasoning behind this statement. O yeah.. he believed in Diplomacy instead of war as well.

[tony]

lol yall say **** bush but yet bush doesnt control the economy.

I just thought about this, the Executive Branch.. Commander in Chief is not responsible for the state of the United States Economy? The man who ultimately has Veto power over anything Congress approves and sign into law ANY bill isn't responsible?

lol You've got to be kidding me, I'm sure if the economy was exploding you would say we need to thank Bush but now its not his fault? Well why have a president then? I guess we can just get things done on our own.

Bad Economic policy is wasting $400 Billion on a war that shows no return on investment while your people are losing jobs to other countries, losing their homes and the value of your currency is plummeting at an alarming rate. Bad economic policy is not investing in infrastructure for energy independence while your citizens are held captive by the Oil industry because there is no competition and essentially.. a monopoly. Good economic policy would not leave millions of citizens without proper healthcare and allow an affordable solution for much needed medications.

Bush himself doctored "No Child Left Behind" and now almost half of our teenagers are not graduating from high school. Please explain how George Bush, the one man with the most control over domestic policy over the last 8 years bears not an ounce of burden over the state of the U.S?

[Ran]

4200 deaths is not 'good' no matter how you spin it.4200 deaths over a period of 6 years is actually pretty good for a "war". Granted that any loss of a serviceman sucks, but statistically speaking that's not bad at all.

Also, yes, I have known friends that died overseas.

[RutRoe]

Reaper- that's really awesome that you got your cousin to read this. That really speaks volumes for him that he'd come over and leave that. I'm really impressed.

My original point was just that- it's all opinion and every source "spins" stuff. I'd much rather listen to the opinion of a soldier that's been there and experienced it, then any talking head, on any channel, on any side of the fence.

I'm not saying we shouldn't have spirited debates about stuff, because that's how change happens, but most of the time it's just noise, it's not actually discussion.

[redrumracer]

I just thought about this, the Executive Branch.. Commander in Chief is not responsible for the state of the United States Economy? The man who ultimately has Veto power over anything Congress approves and sign into law ANY bill isn't responsible?

lol You've got to be kidding me, I'm sure if the economy was exploding you would say we need to thank Bush but now its not his fault? Well why have a president then? I guess we can just get things done on our own.

Bad Economic policy is wasting $400 Billion on a war that shows no return on investment while your people are losing jobs to other countries, losing their homes and the value of your currency is plummeting at an alarming rate. Bad economic policy is not investing in infrastructure for energy independence while your citizens are held captive by the Oil industry because there is no competition and essentially.. a monopoly. Good economic policy would not leave millions of citizens without proper healthcare and allow an affordable solution for much needed medications.

Bush himself doctored "No Child Left Behind" and now almost half of our teenagers are not graduating from high school. Please explain how George Bush, the one man with the most control over domestic policy over the last 8 years bears not an ounce of burden over the state of the U.S?

just as quick as the president can veto something the congress can still overturn his veto. he alone can not make the decision to go to war. it has to be voted upon and approved. he can do a military campaign but only so long until it has to be voted on and the troops brought home. also healthcare shouldnt be the responsibility of the government it should be up to the individual and no child left behind act is a public law that was still voted upon and accepted by congress. does bush deserve some of the blame? sure, but all of it? no. he is in the public eye all the time and as such is the easiest target. and no he doesnt have the most control the congress has the most control

[Alan®]

good post man

[OhMyGodfather]

here's what my cousin has to say about all this...

I am currenlty stationed in Iraq and got a chance to read this forum through a link I got from my cousin. First things first, you talk about all that building being done and the Iraqi Army and the Iraq Police being trained and puttin out recruits..who do you think builds the buildings? trains the police and the army? who teaches them to fly these jets and helicopters..I'll tell you who..The American service memebers. Another point is about all the "pointless deaths" that's bull**** because if any American dies in a foreign conflict then it's not pointless at all..and I dont have the exact statictics but I'd say atleast 70% of the losses we've had in this war are from men and women who enlisted after 9/11 and knew full well that they we're gonna deploy and ran the risk of being killed. I know I thought that when I signed the papers but it's something you get used too and you learn to live with being here. It's been 7 months since i've seen my friends or family and my girl..but I do it because I love my country and want to see it stay safe! I understand many peoples anger about the war..I just ask you don't take you're hate to the Service memebers..ESP those who've served or are currently serving in Iraq because believe me friend they've been through Hell and back and the last thing they need is Ridicule.. I thank you for hearing me out if you took the time to read this..and James stay strong and I'll be seein ya and the rest of the family in June....Sincerly, Spc Brian M. Bennett

quoted so the people actually read it...people are still arguing about the economy and completely forgetting the real point of this thread, words from a soldier who has seen it all guys..listen... ^^^^

[Alan®]

I just thought about this, the Executive Branch.. Commander in Chief is not responsible for the state of the United States Economy? The man who ultimately has Veto power over anything Congress approves and sign into law ANY bill isn't responsible?

lol You've got to be kidding me, I'm sure if the economy was exploding you would say we need to thank Bush but now its not his fault? Well why have a president then? I guess we can just get things done on our own.

Bad Economic policy is wasting $400 Billion on a war that shows no return on investment while your people are losing jobs to other countries, losing their homes and the value of your currency is plummeting at an alarming rate. Bad economic policy is not investing in infrastructure for energy independence while your citizens are held captive by the Oil industry because there is no competition and essentially.. a monopoly. Good economic policy would not leave millions of citizens without proper healthcare and allow an affordable solution for much needed medications.

Bush himself doctored "No Child Left Behind" and now almost half of our teenagers are not graduating from high school. Please explain how George Bush, the one man with the most control over domestic policy over the last 8 years bears not an ounce of burden over the state of the U.S?

Having read your post I want to say something about all this. I generally agree with what you said but a couple of points I disagree with.

The first being


Bad Economic policy is wasting $400 Billion on a war that shows no return on investment
Please tell me what war in the history of our country has ever showed a return investment? When has a country ever fully payed its repreations and we made money off of it.


losing their homes
This is an issue I have been thinking about lately. While I feel bad that there are people who are losing their homes due to the big Adjustable Rate Mortgage trend in the end people are responsible for their own actions. Nobody put a gun to these people's head and told them buy the house or eat lead. If you don't read through the contract and now what comes after the first two years of being on the lower rate than you shouldn't be buying ahouse alone anyways. Maybe the government should not have allowed this but. I do not see how it is the governments responsibilty to save people from their own dumb financial decisions. I was watching Gretta Van Sustren last night and she did an interview with John McCain and I personally have been saying this all along. The only way for people to recover from this is to get to the bottom so that we can start over and begin growth again. The government negotiating with mortgate companies to extend the time underwhich they get the lower intrest rate does nothing but prolounge the problem.

[0p7!mu5]

ugh.. this is making me sick readin all this but hell here's my opinion. First off to all who blame bush.. How many of you VOTED last election? Really? Second i have two cousins and at least 5 close friends who have been over there twice, one taking six bullets in the chest and surviving and one so far into spec ops we havent heard from him in months and they all agree that this war wasnt what they were expecting. anybody believing it was going to take less than a year on a country like that was a damn fool. It isnt that simple anymore like it was in '91. Totally diffrent situation. My belief is this: we were wrong going there period i was all for afghanistan that was cleaning up a mess we made (Taliban was our fault along with Osama). But Iraq. 6 years and money wasted and **** like that along with lives I understand the sacrifices our military makes and the brave souls who sign up for the military take. Hell i woulda been there if not for the fact that i have a bad heart murmur. My point is this quit putting things on troops and start throwing it on the guy we elect (or failed to elect) and quit bitching about 8 years of our economy and education going to the ****ter. Because half of my graduating class got left behind and its only getting worse. We cant fix another country without fixing ourselves first. we still look hypocritical for doing that. Also not dissin the Iraqi's or any other country in their position but really name one point in history that hasnt rebelled against their government if they were that bad. France, Russia, China, Hell even our own damn country couldnt stand england and fought back. IF these guys can take out 4,000+ troops in 6 years Where the hell were these guys on their own damn government. I dont wanna hear any oh they couldnt fight back. bull**** they coulda and didnt. you can only take but so damn much. If you look in history long enough it makes sense. WE WERE THERE FOR NO DAMN REASON. No WMD has been found that i know of. Saddam was probably too busy getting gold tp while his crazy ass sons raped half the country to get **** for a nuke. And even if al durka durka was ****ing there surgical strikes aside we are spreading our soldiers too damn thin. Point is you got two choices vote this year or pray McCain's lil 100 years of being over there is worth more american lives. If you can live with that then hell I can't argue with you but honestly man I want my cousins home for our reunion this year instead of talkin to them over a satellite phone and email.

[0p7!mu5]

Having read your post I want to say something about all this. I generally agree with what you said but a couple of points I disagree with.

The first being

Please tell me what war in the history of our country has ever showed a return investment? When has a country ever fully payed its repreations and we made money off of it.


This is an issue I have been thinking about lately. While I feel bad that there are people who are losing their homes due to the big Adjustable Rate Mortgage trend in the end people are responsible for their own actions. Nobody put a gun to these people's head and told them buy the house or eat lead. If you don't read through the contract and now what comes after the first two years of being on the lower rate than you shouldn't be buying ahouse alone anyways. Maybe the government should not have allowed this but. I do not see how it is the governments responsibilty to save people from their own dumb financial decisions. I was watching Gretta Van Sustren last night and she did an interview with John McCain and I personally have been saying this all along. The only way for people to recover from this is to get to the bottom so that we can start over and begin growth again. The government negotiating with mortgate companies to extend the time underwhich they get the lower intrest rate does nothing but prolounge the problem.

first problem is why the hell would anybody in their right mind go for an adjustable rate? you're better off ina n apartment at that point. Honestly imo Financial education and not saving nickles and dimes but real walstreet financial education is a better shot. real estate investing yeah saving your money helps but face social security isnt going to be around much longer at this rate. People jumping into houses without reading the fine print and living outside their mean doesnt help. If people really read and understood what they read it would soften the blow. Im reading into that now because im just tryin to get the hell out of renting a damn apartment but a fixed rate is just way smarter of an idea no surprise raise in mortgage.:2cents:

[95alty]

So, how long have they been conducting these operations by themselves ?

How long has the US Military ?

When compared to the US Military, or any established military, of course they aren't gonna be as secure with their actions. This coming from a member of the US Army, myself. But, you are entitled to your opinion.

Marine here... but hey my opinion is somewhat decent...

[95alty]

ugh.. this is making me sick readin all this but hell here's my opinion. First off to all who blame bush.. How many of you VOTED last election? Really? Second i have two cousins and at least 5 close friends who have been over there twice, one taking six bullets in the chest and surviving and one so far into spec ops we havent heard from him in months and they all agree that this war wasnt what they were expecting. anybody believing it was going to take less than a year on a country like that was a damn fool. It isnt that simple anymore like it was in '91. Totally diffrent situation. My belief is this: we were wrong going there period i was all for afghanistan that was cleaning up a mess we made (Taliban was our fault along with Osama). But Iraq. 6 years and money wasted and **** like that along with lives I understand the sacrifices our military makes and the brave souls who sign up for the military take. Hell i woulda been there if not for the fact that i have a bad heart murmur. My point is this quit putting things on troops and start throwing it on the guy we elect (or failed to elect) and quit bitching about 8 years of our economy and education going to the ****ter. Because half of my graduating class got left behind and its only getting worse. We cant fix another country without fixing ourselves first. we still look hypocritical for doing that. Also not dissin the Iraqi's or any other country in their position but really name one point in history that hasnt rebelled against their government if they were that bad. France, Russia, China, Hell even our own damn country couldnt stand england and fought back. IF these guys can take out 4,000+ troops in 6 years Where the hell were these guys on their own damn government. I dont wanna hear any oh they couldnt fight back. bull**** they coulda and didnt. you can only take but so damn much. If you look in history long enough it makes sense. WE WERE THERE FOR NO DAMN REASON. No WMD has been found that i know of. Saddam was probably too busy getting gold tp while his crazy ass sons raped half the country to get **** for a nuke. And even if al durka durka was ****ing there surgical strikes aside we are spreading our soldiers too damn thin. Point is you got two choices vote this year or pray McCain's lil 100 years of being over there is worth more american lives. If you can live with that then hell I can't argue with you but honestly man I want my cousins home for our reunion this year instead of talkin to them over a satellite phone and email.

Very true...but going off a family members experience still shouldnt be your judgement... go get you some action and make your own assumptions

[Alan®]

ugh.. this is making me sick readin all this but hell here's my opinion. First off to all who blame bush.. How many of you VOTED last election? Really? Second i have two cousins and at least 5 close friends who have been over there twice, one taking six bullets in the chest and surviving and one so far into spec ops we havent heard from him in months and they all agree that this war wasnt what they were expecting. anybody believing it was going to take less than a year on a country like that was a damn fool. It isnt that simple anymore like it was in '91. Totally diffrent situation. My belief is this: we were wrong going there period i was all for afghanistan that was cleaning up a mess we made (Taliban was our fault along with Osama). But Iraq. 6 years and money wasted and **** like that along with lives I understand the sacrifices our military makes and the brave souls who sign up for the military take. Hell i woulda been there if not for the fact that i have a bad heart murmur. My point is this quit putting things on troops and start throwing it on the guy we elect (or failed to elect) and quit bitching about 8 years of our economy and education going to the ****ter. Because half of my graduating class got left behind and its only getting worse. We cant fix another country without fixing ourselves first. we still look hypocritical for doing that. Also not dissin the Iraqi's or any other country in their position but really name one point in history that hasnt rebelled against their government if they were that bad. France, Russia, China, Hell even our own damn country couldnt stand england and fought back. IF these guys can take out 4,000+ troops in 6 years Where the hell were these guys on their own damn government. I dont wanna hear any oh they couldnt fight back. bull**** they coulda and didnt. you can only take but so damn much. If you look in history long enough it makes sense. WE WERE THERE FOR NO DAMN REASON. No WMD has been found that i know of. Saddam was probably too busy getting gold tp while his crazy ass sons raped half the country to get **** for a nuke. And even if al durka durka was ****ing there surgical strikes aside we are spreading our soldiers too damn thin. Point is you got two choices vote this year or pray McCain's lil 100 years of being over there is worth more american lives. If you can live with that then hell I can't argue with you but honestly man I want my cousins home for our reunion this year instead of talkin to them over a satellite phone and email.

LOL. Your post is the most jumbled and rambled post I have read in this thread thus far.

I do find it funny that it seems that you are the type of person who believes everything they see on the news. Doo some research on McCain's 100 years in Iraq comment and you'll see what was actually said.

[0p7!mu5]

Very true...but going off a family members experience still shouldnt be your judgement... go get you some action and make your own assumptions
would if i could but cant im not basing it entirely off of them but it is a pretty sensitive subject. i understand helping other countries but man damn. im not sayin speedy withdrawl or anything because that would leave a major pwoer vaccum. but i do believe we gotta go and strike elsewhere.

[tony]

Having read your post I want to say something about all this. I generally agree with what you said but a couple of points I disagree with.

The first being

Please tell me what war in the history of our country has ever showed a return investment? When has a country ever fully payed its repreations and we made money off of it.




Contrary to belief.. I understand due to the great failure of this Iraq war its hard to believe there is a positive outcome of war but there are plenty of examples I could give that had a positive outcome. Civil War is the first that comes to mind, Desert Storm..




This is an issue I have been thinking about lately. While I feel bad that there are people who are losing their homes due to the big Adjustable Rate Mortgage trend in the end people are responsible for their own actions. Nobody put a gun to these people's head and told them buy the house or eat lead. If you don't read through the contract and now what comes after the first two years of being on the lower rate than you shouldn't be buying ahouse alone anyways. Maybe the government should not have allowed this but. I do not see how it is the governments responsibilty to save people from their own dumb financial decisions. I was watching Gretta Van Sustren last night and she did an interview with John McCain and I personally have been saying this all along. The only way for people to recover from this is to get to the bottom so that we can start over and begin growth again. The government negotiating with mortgate companies to extend the time underwhich they get the lower intrest rate does nothing but prolounge the problem.

I originally had the position you did, trust me I see what you are saying but I spoke with my sister at length about this, she is really intelligent on the subject. ARM's were tailored for residents of California where a conventional mortgage was not financially viable. Of course this caught on and even Alan Greenspan himself endorsed the ARM.

I have a 7 year ARM on my house and had an interest online loan on an investment I had.. I am one of the more educated home buyers but the average person just doesn't understand the legal talk in purchasing a house. Emotion gets involved, they hear they are approved for the house of their dreams and voila.. deal done and someone has more responsibility than they can handle.

I'm not saying the government should bail them out, there is a lesson to be learned here but certainly the role of the government is to make sure the market is fair, and that there are fair lending practices... I'm sorry but that did not go on.

[Alan®]

Contrary to belief.. I understand due to the great failure of this Iraq war its hard to believe there is a positive outcome of war but there are plenty of examples I could give that had a positive outcome. Civil War is the first that comes to mind, Desert Storm..
I think you missed what I was getting at as I am not entirely against the war nor do I believe that we should get out earlier. What I was trying to say in response to your coment earlier about the war being a $400billion dollar sink hole with no return investment. My point was other than say the revolution and maybe the Civil War where did we either break even or make money?




I originally had the position you did, trust me I see what you are saying but I spoke with my sister at length about this, she is really intelligent on the subject. ARM's were tailored for residents of California where a conventional mortgage was not financially viable. Of course this caught on and even Alan Greenspan himself endorsed the ARM.

I have a 7 year ARM on my house and had an interest online loan on an investment I had.. I am one of the more educated home buyers but the average person just doesn't understand the legal talk in purchasing a house. Emotion gets involved, they hear they are approved for the house of their dreams and voila.. deal done and someone has more responsibility than they can handle.

I'm not saying the government should bail them out, there is a lesson to be learned here but certainly the role of the government is to make sure the market is fair, and that there are fair lending practices... I'm sorry but that did not go on.
I understand and agree that there is a lesson to be learned in all of this all I'm saying is business is business and that if these people didn't sit down and see what they were getting themselves into than it's their own fault ultimately. I understand that buying a house is emotional but when your putting a great chunk of your credit on the line you should be going over your contract with a fine comb.

[Reaper]

just as quick as the president can veto something the congress can still overturn his veto. he alone can not make the decision to go to war. it has to be voted upon and approved. he can do a military campaign but only so long until it has to be voted on and the troops brought home. also healthcare shouldnt be the responsibility of the government it should be up to the individual and no child left behind act is a public law that was still voted upon and accepted by congress. does bush deserve some of the blame? sure, but all of it? no. he is in the public eye all the time and as such is the easiest target. and no he doesnt have the most control the congress has the most control

best thing posted in this thread:goodjob:

People seem to forget that our country is NOT a democracy...its a REPUBLIC!!

Think for yourself, do things on your own. If you are not physically or mentally capable the there are safegaurds, but it should NOT be up to the government to save lazy peoples asses..

+whatever I'm worth

[Sledlude]

saving lazy peoples asses? thats bs. I am far from lazy, I work hard, and I JUST got health insurance, mainly because it was required by school and I got in on the cheap thru them. If something would have happened to me, I woulda been FVCKED. Hospital bills are no joke. So before you assume every uninsured person is just a crack head on welfare, think again. Most of the people that struggle with rising healthcare costs are middle class, hard working people that fall through the cracks in the system.

A universal healthcare system would not be so bad... take a look at the system in the UK. Sure its not perfect, but we could take their platform and improve on it. The reason it will probably never happen is because with this kind of system, physicians tend to medicate you less (ie, they dont prescribe you a shyt-ton of pills that you could probably do without). Big pharm firms (ie eli lilly, astro zeneca, glaxo, etc) don't want that- they love charging you crazy money for something that doesnt work (ie. vytorin). With our current system, people get left behind while insurance executives and big pharmaceutical firms line their pockets.

I don't think the government should come between patient and doctor, but i do think something needs to be done to put pharmaceutical companies in check. they r the devil.

[TIGERJC]

I laugh when ppl say lazy ass ppl need universal health care. There are so many ppl that just have inadequate insurance, where they still can not afford health care. Than there are the Americans that work hard for ever dollar they get and don't have health care because of the cost.

A Month ago 60 minute did a show entirely on a charity that use to go around the world to provide free Health screening, medical operations and Dental work to the uninsured/ppl with inadequate insurance. And the thing that caught my eye is that the organization has stepped up its present in U.S.. All the ppl that was getting help was mainly working middle class white ppl and I wish more Americans (especially the supposedly Christian base right) would be more willing to spend money saving/helping American lives than spending money on this war and other bad investments this country makes

[tightflks]

here's what my cousin has to say about all this...

I am currenlty stationed in Iraq and got a chance to read this forum through a link I got from my cousin. First things first, you talk about all that building being done and the Iraqi Army and the Iraq Police being trained and puttin out recruits..who do you think builds the buildings? trains the police and the army? who teaches them to fly these jets and helicopters..I'll tell you who..The American service memebers. Another point is about all the "pointless deaths" that's bull**** because if any American dies in a foreign conflict then it's not pointless at all..and I dont have the exact statictics but I'd say atleast 70% of the losses we've had in this war are from men and women who enlisted after 9/11 and knew full well that they we're gonna deploy and ran the risk of being killed. I know I thought that when I signed the papers but it's something you get used too and you learn to live with being here. It's been 7 months since i've seen my friends or family and my girl..but I do it because I love my country and want to see it stay safe! I understand many peoples anger about the war..I just ask you don't take you're hate to the Service memebers..ESP those who've served or are currently serving in Iraq because believe me friend they've been through Hell and back and the last thing they need is Ridicule.. I thank you for hearing me out if you took the time to read this..and James stay strong and I'll be seein ya and the rest of the family in June....Sincerly, Spc Brian M. Bennett

i know im jumpin in kinda late, but this comin from me, a mozlem haha

no one hates the service members and no one thinks they are stupid or aren't doing what they need to be doin out there, quite the opposite, i think this is the most support american troops have received since ww2

look at afghanistan, no one even talks about the troops over there anymore

[mad3nch1na]

I have to agree that 4,200 is "good" for a "war". Considering we are no longer fighting an "army" we are not really at "war". We are occupying Iraq. We have gone to war with Iraq before, but there was a REASON we did not occupy it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BEsZMvrq-I as **** Cheny explains. The "war" ended when Saddam's army was defeated and Baghdad was taken. Most of the deaths occured after the "war". And 4,200 is a small number considering how long we have been there, just compare it with recent military engagements likes Vietnam or Korea.

[Alan®]

I have to agree that 4,200 is "good" for a "war". Considering we are no longer fighting an "army" we are not really at "war". We are occupying Iraq. We have gone to war with Iraq before, but there was a REASON we did not occupy it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BEsZMvrq-I as **** Cheny explains. The "war" ended when Saddam's army was defeated and Baghdad was taken. Most of the deaths occured after the "war". And 4,200 is a small number considering how long we have been there, just compare it with recent military engagements likes Vietnam or Korea.
I agree with you but the problem is that people see any loss of life as a bad thing which it is but in addition to that I believe that the country has gone soft and takes too much of what the media puts out to heart. I think that maybe if people had definitive answers to their questions people would be less against the war there but who knows.

[mad3nch1na]

Yep, in todays America, it baffles me how people like Al Gonzoles with his "I do not recall" and Mukaseyhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gt8v_GAgOK4 "gets away" with it all.

[R32Dragon]

So many hippys on IA....But im a military servicemember, I may be biased.

[BanginJimmy]

you can post all the pictures of deaths you want, but in the end it comes down to the fact that invading iraq on our own terms is FAR better than waiting for Sadaam to strike first. I wish we would start in on Iran soon as get them out of the way too. Iran is one of the biggest reasons this occupation is taking the path it is.

Dont call it a war, its not, that part has been over with since the fall of organized resistance. It is an occupation and the US military was not trained or equipped to fight that type of war. Its getting better, but if you ask the media, we are losing, and thats far from the case.

Oh and that lady that said its worse than the media says is just a whiney little whore. I knew alot of Marines from 2/5 who were in Ramadi, Masul, baghdad and falluja and according to them the media made it sound far worse than it was.

1 example, the "daily shelling" usually consisted of a single mortor or RPG that hit short or long of the base. 1 in 10 actually hit anything more important than an empty piece of desert.

[tony]

you can post all the pictures of deaths you want, but in the end it comes down to the fact that invading iraq on our own terms is FAR better than waiting for Sadaam to strike first. I wish we would start in on Iran soon as get them out of the way too. Iran is one of the biggest reasons this occupation is taking the path it is.

Dont call it a war, its not, that part has been over with since the fall of organized resistance. It is an occupation and the US military was not trained or equipped to fight that type of war. Its getting better, but if you ask the media, we are losing, and thats far from the case.

Oh and that lady that said its worse than the media says is just a whiney little whore. I knew alot of Marines from 2/5 who were in Ramadi, Masul, baghdad and falluja and according to them the media made it sound far worse than it was.

1 example, the "daily shelling" usually consisted of a single mortor or RPG that hit short or long of the base. 1 in 10 actually hit anything more important than an empty piece of desert.

When was Sadam going to strike us? Was it when he began to switch oil reserves to Euro's? He didnt have to attack us.. we depend on THEM for their resources that we pay $3.20 a gallon for now, fiscally Iraq could have run us into the ground and that was the plan until the invasion.. Was it 9/11? No.. those were Saudi's, not Iraqi's.. damn, I'm sorry I don't see the imminent threat that justifies 4000 lives.

As far as the "whore" goes, honestly I cannot give you what she told me verbatim but the gist of it was that where they were eating was hit by a mortar round and one of the female soldiers with her died.. I think she deserves a bit more than to be labeled a whore. Just goes to show that again, some people don't seem to grasp the situation as it is.

Casualties of war I have no problems with, but war is to be a last resort and to anyone who thinks logically, if there is not a direct threat then obviously there are other alternatives.

I know that I am not going to change anyones mind here but the proof is around us every single day. Our government invests a lot more into the infrastructure of Iraq than it does here. Why is it so important to build up Iraq when residents of New Orleans are being placed in trailers with formaldehyde? Think just for a second, $400 Billion into a mission that has no clear objective.. it's not okay to use taxpayer money to provide healthcare here but perfectly fine to spend BILLIONS on another country. Those muslims are sooo evil but you're so anxious to rebuild the entire country for them. Interesting.

Iran, the same Iran that aided the U.S in Afghanistan going after Bin Laden. (Neither Iraq or Iran has ANY relationship to Al Qaeda) Or the same Iran that offered 20 Million Barrels of crude oil for Katrina? hmm.. it can't possibly be the Iran that just aided the Iraqi government in recent attacks. But yet diplomacy doesn't work.. it sure seems like they want to sit down and talk things out, then again I'm just a hippie with an opinion.

There are peaceful ways to resolve conflict without bloodshed. Again, war is to be a last resort, the U.S is losing its status as a Superpower due to our foreign policy.

[tony]

I have to agree that 4,200 is "good" for a "war". Considering we are no longer fighting an "army" we are not really at "war". We are occupying Iraq. We have gone to war with Iraq before, but there was a REASON we did not occupy it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BEsZMvrq-I as **** Cheny explains. The "war" ended when Saddam's army was defeated and Baghdad was taken. Most of the deaths occured after the "war". And 4,200 is a small number considering how long we have been there, just compare it with recent military engagements likes Vietnam or Korea.

wow, I'm amazed that you quoted **** Cheney like he has nothing to gain from this occupancy.

Vietnam and Korea had clear objectives, one of which failed and we ended up pulling out anyway (like we will in Iraq, sorry to dissapoint those who feel like their time served makes them experts on foreign policy) Our occupation in Iraq doesn't have an objective.. when things are good people say "It's working we need to stay!" when things are bad its "They need us, we need to stay!" Kind of redundant really..

4200 is a lot when you consider diplomacy would put that number at ZERO.
All George W. had to do was take a page from his father's book.. it's called multilateralism and it cost the U.S about 6 months and 300 soldiers in Desert Storm.

[TheProfiteer]

I am not going to hold this as the ultimate truth, and I am in no way basing any of my worldly conclusion on this movie. But it does have a few eye openers, with sources and references to back it up.

http://zeitgeistmovie.com/


What I found most interesting were the two SAS troops captured by Iraqi police, dressed at Iraqis shooting at Iraqi civilians.

I believe the same thing I believed right after 9/11, there is going to be a war in Iraq, (YES I said this word for word just weeks after 9/11) its going to be regarded as the another Vietnam, and its sole purposes is to be a sustained war with minimal Coalition Causalities.

Iraq was conquered in 2002. The rest is purely elitist/Illuminati economic profit turning.

This is world we live in. This is what we as an intelligent and sentient race have accomplished.

[JITB]

that zeitgeist movie does have alot of valid and truth in it. its kind of hard to believe it. But it makes u think alot.

[95alty]

TONY... pm me man we have to do lunch... my treat... beer or something.. you and red gt... i agree with everything you said... and 4200 should be 0... its sad when you have come in contact with 200 out of the 4200 dead... sucks...

Listen to this... one of my sergeants buddies is on his way back to al asad or however you spell it... from a convoy... his last before he hops the plane to kuwait and gets ready from post deployment... walking to chow at 0600 and hears a noise..... BOOM.... a random rocket hits him directly in the chest and explodes on impact... he had 1 more day in theater... it hurts man... really does to know my people out there getting killed, captured, beheaded, wounded, de-limbed, for stupid reasons... no matter what branch we are still brothers in arms

[Sledlude]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to tony again.

good god, someone gets it.

[tony]

TONY... pm me man we have to do lunch... my treat... beer or something.. you and red gt... i agree with everything you said... and 4200 should be 0... its sad when you have come in contact with 200 out of the 4200 dead... sucks...

Listen to this... one of my sergeants buddies is on his way back to al asad or however you spell it... from a convoy... his last before he hops the plane to kuwait and gets ready from post deployment... walking to chow at 0600 and hears a noise..... BOOM.... a random rocket hits him directly in the chest and explodes on impact... he had 1 more day in theater... it hurts man... really does to know my people out there getting killed, captured, beheaded, wounded, de-limbed, for stupid reasons... no matter what branch we are still brothers in arms

Dialog definitely educates.. in comparison to my siblings my knowledge of everything that goes on is nothing. I basically learn through arguing with them and then doing research. But the thing is you have to come to the table with an open mind rather than be stubborn on your position.

And I'm definitely down to meet up some time, I'm on the southside (as is RedGT) so let me know.

[95alty]

ok cool... im in the west end... and definately some time soon we can sit down and discuss

[TheProfiteer]

TONY... pm me man we have to do lunch... my treat... beer or something.. you and red gt... i agree with everything you said... and 4200 should be 0... its sad when you have come in contact with 200 out of the 4200 dead... sucks...

Listen to this... one of my sergeants buddies is on his way back to al asad or however you spell it... from a convoy... his last before he hops the plane to kuwait and gets ready from post deployment... walking to chow at 0600 and hears a noise..... BOOM.... a random rocket hits him directly in the chest and explodes on impact... he had 1 more day in theater... it hurts man... really does to know my people out there getting killed, captured, beheaded, wounded, de-limbed, for stupid reasons... no matter what branch we are still brothers in arms


Stupid reasons indeed.

[Sledlude]

you can post all the pictures of deaths you want, but in the end it comes down to the fact that invading iraq on our own terms is FAR better than waiting for Sadaam to strike first. I wish we would start in on Iran soon as get them out of the way too. Iran is one of the biggest reasons this occupation is taking the path it is.

Dont call it a war, its not, that part has been over with since the fall of organized resistance. It is an occupation and the US military was not trained or equipped to fight that type of war. Its getting better, but if you ask the media, we are losing, and thats far from the case.

Oh and that lady that said its worse than the media says is just a whiney little whore. I knew alot of Marines from 2/5 who were in Ramadi, Masul, baghdad and falluja and according to them the media made it sound far worse than it was.

1 example, the "daily shelling" usually consisted of a single mortor or RPG that hit short or long of the base. 1 in 10 actually hit anything more important than an empty piece of desert.

How the fck can you call someone who went over there and served to defend your ass (regardless of the reasons) a 'whiney whore'? *******.

you knew a lot of marines huh? i hope they whoop your little ***** ass for making a comment like that. learn some respect. dipshyt.

[95alty]

How the fck can you call someone who went over there and served to defend your ass (regardless of the reasons) a 'whiney whore'? *******.

you knew a lot of marines huh? i hope they whoop your little ***** ass for making a comment like that. learn some respect. dipshyt.

HOLD ON SLEDLUDE... before you bash jimmy... this DEVILDOG is a vet... HE IS A MARINE... so learn your facts... AND HAS BEEN OVER TO THEATER... so make sure when you post comments like ^ you make sure u remember there are people who have seen action... not just news feeds

[Sledlude]

i concede. i still think thats a fvcked up thing to say tho!

all the ppl i know that went over there are either dead or came back batshyt crazy. the love of my life is in the military. it really makes me mad when ppl say things like that. if you served, then why would you say that about some one else who did? wrong imo.

[soul]

HOLD ON SLEDLUDE... before you bash jimmy... this DEVILDOG is a vet... HE IS A MARINE... so learn your facts... AND HAS BEEN OVER TO THEATER... so make sure when you post comments like ^ you make sure u remember there are people who have seen action... not just news feeds
just beat me to it, typed a whole post good thing i hit preview before.

[95alty]

i concede. i still think thats a fvcked up thing to say tho!

its cool though... but some people have earned the right to say things like that... as fuked up as it may be... he earned it

[tony]

HOLD ON SLEDLUDE... before you bash jimmy... this DEVILDOG is a vet... HE IS A MARINE... so learn your facts... AND HAS BEEN OVER TO THEATER... so make sure when you post comments like ^ you make sure u remember there are people who have seen action... not just news feeds

What makes his opinion any less than Jimmy's? What cause he didn't serve? So if I join the army I have the right to call someone who put their life on the line a whore? C'mon now, active duty doesn't give you the golden key to say whatever the hell you want. its honorable to serve but everyone plays a role.. even civilians, respect needs to be given on both ends.

I also forgot, the current administration thinks so highly of the sacrifice given that they would like to take veteran benefits away, the same administration that a lot of you are defending.

[95alty]

that is true... but there are males and females over there who whine... and we treat them as such. Civilians do there thing over there also... but someone made it that way so they could get in the area to do what they have to do. I look out for my devil dogs... jimmy is one... if you join the army then your entitled to no opinion on anyone (military inside joke)

But all i know is when i get out... vet benenfits better be there... or im going in the whitehouse with the same mind set we went into iraq with... only thinking "wheres my money bishes"

[soul]

that is true... but there are males and females over there who whine... and we treat them as such. Civilians do there thing over there also... but someone made it that way so they could get in the area to do what they have to do. I look out for my devil dogs... jimmy is one... if you join the army then your entitled to no opinion on anyone (military inside joke)

But all i know is when i get out... vet benenfits better be there... or im going in the whitehouse with the same mind set we went into iraq with... only thinking "wheres my money bishes"
sounding like a private contractor already, should get into some of that when your done,lol, thats where the money is

[95alty]

sounding like a private contractor already, should get into some of that when your done,lol, thats where the money is

WHAT!! who you telling... i already see it now... getting paid 6 figures to kill people...

[soul]

WHAT!! who you telling... i already see it now... getting paid 6 figures to kill people...
my bro does it, but he doesnt get paid to kill people come on, its to "protect" his assisgnment, lol

[95alty]

CYA... cover your own ass

[soul]

CYA... cover your own ass
only prob, he had was, getting shot at more by U.S. troops then militants in iraq n what not lol

[Doppelgänger]

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/0/c/bush_sheep.jpg

And LMAO@ you people still calling whats going on over there a "War".. the "War" has been over for quite sometime.

And to RX8Dragon, i could come back with 98375698756 nasty replies to you. But i'm not...because im not stooping to your level and staring name calling. I see you think i was being negative toward the military....you're wrong.

Also, some of you should go check out how much the National Debt was when Clinton was in office vs. Bush.

[soul]

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/0/c/bush_sheep.jpg

And LMAO@ you people still calling whats going on over there a "War".. the "War" has been over for quite sometime.

And to RX8Dragon, i could come back with 98375698756 nasty replies to you. But i'm not...because im not stooping to your level and staring name calling. I see you think i was being negative toward the military....you're wrong.

Also, some of you should go check out how much the National Debt was when Clinton was in office vs. Bush.
neg rep'd? for what reason, other than your just a complete f.uckwad? lol, if feel sorry for little bitches like you... go get "high"

[JennB]

You really should lean not to always attack people who have differing opinions. Also, your insults are weak and you really should master the whole "your you're" thing.

It amazes me that people will claim they are fighting for freedom and the American way but when people use the wonderful thing that is freedom of speech to voice their opinions, people get so offended and for some reason think that they don't have the right to express that opinion anymore.

You feel sorry for people that don't agree with you? Personally, I feel sorry for people who don't have the right to disagree. I think freedom of speech and thought is a great thing and it's best when people use it. It opens dialogs, let's people see things from other perspectives and sometimes teaches people about things they never knew.

I fully support our military. I have nothing but respect for people who willingly give themselves to the service of their county but I do not agree with this war. I cannot support an administration that tells me flat out that we are invading a county because of weapons of mass destruction and later to find out that there was never any evidence to show those weapons ever existed. As for the 4,200 that are dead... those are humans. Those are people who left behind people who loved them and who will never again enjoy the wonder that is life. I do not think of them as a number. I do not think of them as a statistic. I believe that with video games, tv and so much violence around us that people think of them as a number and forget that they are real. This is not a video game, it's life. I also cannot support anyone who goes into a war without an exit strategy. I would never say a bad word about the men and women who are serving right now, all I want is for them to come home.



Some of us have the abilitly to discuss our opinions without name calling.

[soul]

You really should lean not to always attack people who have differing opinions. Also, your insults are weak and you really should master the whole "your you're" thing.

It amazes me that people will claim they are fighting for freedom and the American way but when people use the wonderful thing that is freedom of speech to voice their opinions, people get so offended and for some reason think that they don't have the right to express that opinion anymore.

You feel sorry for people that don't agree with you? Personally, I feel sorry for people who don't have the right to disagree. I think freedom of speech and thought is a great thing and it's best when people use it. It opens dialogs, let's people see things from other perspectives and sometimes teaches people about things they never knew.

I fully support our military. I have nothing but respect for people who willingly give themselves to the service of their county but I do not agree with this war. I cannot support an administration that tells me flat out that we are invading a county because of weapons of mass destruction and later to find out that there was never any evidence to show those weapons ever existed. As for the 4,200 that are dead... those are humans. Those are people who left behind people who loved them and who will never again enjoy the wonder that is life. I do not think of them as a number. I do not think of them as a statistic. I believe that with video games, tv and so much violence around us that people think of them as a number and forget that they are real. This is not a video game, it's life. I also cannot support anyone who goes into a war without an exit strategy. I would never say a bad word about the men and women who are serving right now, all I want is for them to come home.



Some of us have the abilitly to discuss our opinions without name calling.
yea, we all were expressing our opinions without name calling, i said ****, when i see a neg rep that says "die in a fire", when one he doesnt refer to me in his post or refrence my post or discusion weve been having the last couple of post. and i dont give a flying **** if i put your or you're. thank you, and i agree with alot of your post.

[Shawna]

did u know that I dont like Iraq???

[soul]

did u know that I dont like Iraq???
i dont like antartica

[Shawna]

hmmm good call

[95alty]

You really should lean not to always attack people who have differing opinions. Also, your insults are weak and you really should master the whole "your you're" thing.

It amazes me that people will claim they are fighting for freedom and the American way but when people use the wonderful thing that is freedom of speech to voice their opinions, people get so offended and for some reason think that they don't have the right to express that opinion anymore.

You feel sorry for people that don't agree with you? Personally, I feel sorry for people who don't have the right to disagree. I think freedom of speech and thought is a great thing and it's best when people use it. It opens dialogs, let's people see things from other perspectives and sometimes teaches people about things they never knew.

I fully support our military. I have nothing but respect for people who willingly give themselves to the service of their county but I do not agree with this war. I cannot support an administration that tells me flat out that we are invading a county because of weapons of mass destruction and later to find out that there was never any evidence to show those weapons ever existed. As for the 4,200 that are dead... those are humans. Those are people who left behind people who loved them and who will never again enjoy the wonder that is life. I do not think of them as a number. I do not think of them as a statistic. I believe that with video games, tv and so much violence around us that people think of them as a number and forget that they are real. This is not a video game, it's life. I also cannot support anyone who goes into a war without an exit strategy. I would never say a bad word about the men and women who are serving right now, all I want is for them to come home.



Some of us have the abilitly to discuss our opinions without name calling.

Thank you for your thought on my marines, soldiers, airmen, and seaman(no pun intended lol)... I am one of those service members and totally feel warm inside when people make posts like the one you made... thanks for your thanks

AND oh... one more thing






























IM HOME BABY COME GIMME SOME!

[Alan®]

TONY... pm me man we have to do lunch... my treat... beer or something.. you and red gt... i agree with everything you said... and 4200 should be 0... its sad when you have come in contact with 200 out of the 4200 dead... sucks...

Listen to this... one of my sergeants buddies is on his way back to al asad or however you spell it... from a convoy... his last before he hops the plane to kuwait and gets ready from post deployment... walking to chow at 0600 and hears a noise..... BOOM.... a random rocket hits him directly in the chest and explodes on impact... he had 1 more day in theater... it hurts man... really does to know my people out there getting killed, captured, beheaded, wounded, de-limbed, for stupid reasons... no matter what branch we are still brothers in arms
:goodjob: sounds good brotha just hit me up you know how to get a hold of me. I'm home on the weekends so any weekend(thursday-sunday) is good for me.

[Doppelgänger]

... go get "high"

...and why don't you go cook some rice with that bowl thats mounted to your dash. But if you want to think "4200 deaths is actually pretty good", then do whatever floats your boat.

[soul]

...and why don't you go cook some rice with that bowl thats mounted to your dash. But if you want to think "4200 deaths is actually pretty good", then do whatever floats your boat.
exactly

[95alty]

:goodjob: sounds good brotha just hit me up you know how to get a hold of me. I'm home on the weekends so any weekend(thursday-sunday) is good for me.

most def... pm me your number

[ahmonrah]

ugh.. this is making me sick readin all this but hell here's my opinion. First off to all who blame bush.. How many of you VOTED last election? Really? Second i have two cousins and at least 5 close friends who have been over there twice, one taking six bullets in the chest and surviving and one so far into spec ops we havent heard from him in months and they all agree that this war wasnt what they were expecting. anybody believing it was going to take less than a year on a country like that was a damn fool. It isnt that simple anymore like it was in '91. Totally diffrent situation. My belief is this: we were wrong going there period i was all for afghanistan that was cleaning up a mess we made (Taliban was our fault along with Osama). But Iraq. 6 years and money wasted and **** like that along with lives I understand the sacrifices our military makes and the brave souls who sign up for the military take. Hell i woulda been there if not for the fact that i have a bad heart murmur. My point is this quit putting things on troops and start throwing it on the guy we elect (or failed to elect) and quit bitching about 8 years of our economy and education going to the ****ter. Because half of my graduating class got left behind and its only getting worse. We cant fix another country without fixing ourselves first. we still look hypocritical for doing that. Also not dissin the Iraqi's or any other country in their position but really name one point in history that hasnt rebelled against their government if they were that bad. France, Russia, China, Hell even our own damn country couldnt stand england and fought back. IF these guys can take out 4,000+ troops in 6 years Where the hell were these guys on their own damn government. I dont wanna hear any oh they couldnt fight back. bull**** they coulda and didnt. you can only take but so damn much. If you look in history long enough it makes sense. WE WERE THERE FOR NO DAMN REASON. No WMD has been found that i know of. Saddam was probably too busy getting gold tp while his crazy ass sons raped half the country to get **** for a nuke. And even if al durka durka was ****ing there surgical strikes aside we are spreading our soldiers too damn thin. Point is you got two choices vote this year or pray McCain's lil 100 years of being over there is worth more american lives. If you can live with that then hell I can't argue with you but honestly man I want my cousins home for our reunion this year instead of talkin to them over a satellite phone and email.~removes glasses, pokes eyes with a needle, wipes away bloody tears~ DUDE, i'm sorry i could'nt read any of that.

[ahmonrah]

ok cool... im in the west end... and definately some time soon we can sit down and discusscount me in....

[BanginJimmy]

How the fck can you call someone who went over there and served to defend your ass (regardless of the reasons) a 'whiney whore'? *******.

you knew a lot of marines huh? i hope they whoop your little ***** ass for making a comment like that. learn some respect. dipshyt.


1. I was over in asscrackistan and delt with ALOT of those little whiney whores. All we heard was how they didnt sign up for this, how they only wanted the money for school blah, blah, blah. The one who posted about that lady doesnt know her for anything and I can say that odds are better than 50/50 that I am right.

2. Yea I knew alot of Marines. Including 2 who I worked with on a daily basis for 6 months. They were attached to HMH-361 in Jan 02 when their CH53 was shot down with an RPG less than 20 miles from Bagram Airbase.

I also knew the laodmaster on a c-130 that had engine trouble while overloaded flying ammo and other combat supplies into bagram right after it was taken. The plane crashed on landingand killed everyone but the co-pilot. You can find the memorials to them in camp teufelhunden on Bagram Airbase. Its right by the pool in front of the TOC.



I also am very much for freedom of speech. This is why I said nothing to the poster, only mentioned that she was likely a whiney whore. I am also going to take advantage of my freedom of speech. I think I earned that in my 10+ years in uniform.

[mad3nch1na]

wow, I'm amazed that you quoted **** Cheney like he has nothing to gain from this occupancy.

Vietnam and Korea had clear objectives, one of which failed and we ended up pulling out anyway (like we will in Iraq, sorry to dissapoint those who feel like their time served makes them experts on foreign policy) Our occupation in Iraq doesn't have an objective.. when things are good people say "It's working we need to stay!" when things are bad its "They need us, we need to stay!" Kind of redundant really..

4200 is a lot when you consider diplomacy would put that number at ZERO.
All George W. had to do was take a page from his father's book.. it's called multilateralism and it cost the U.S about 6 months and 300 soldiers in Desert Storm.
Korea and Vietnam had "clear" objectives?
Some one needs to take some time and learn history.

[BanginJimmy]

Korea had clear objectives and minimal political interference.

Viet-nam and now Iraq have no clear objectives and ungodly amounts of political interference. If the military was allowed to remove the white gloves and fight this like we know how to then we wouldnt have nearly as many problems.

Hearts and minds dont work to start with. Then add religion, uneducated zealots and interference from our other enemies in the region its simply a disaster.

My plan for ending the occupation is simple.

put 300k more troops in country along the borders. Added to this remove most of our combat troops from the cities, only leaving enough for protection for the troops and civilians who are working on infrastructure to do their job in relative safety. Seal off the country from outside fighters and supplies and watch the insurgency slowly disappear. Keep this up for 2-3 years while a legitimate govt of the people takes hold. Also in that time a respectable military and police force will have been able to take root. By the end of the 3 years Iraq will be self sufficient.

[tony]

Korea and Vietnam had "clear" objectives?
Some one needs to take some time and learn history.

Korean War - A clash between borders and an opposition to the North Korean Military.. pretty straight forward and clear objective... Peace within the region.

Vietnam War - Same basis. Communist Republic of Vietnam vs the Republic of Vietnam that the U.S supported. Objective: Instill democracy and our Foreign Policy (funny, sounds familiar.. and it failed)

Iraq - Well, till we finish the "war on terrorism" which is like saying we're going to irradicate world hunger.. there is no reason to pull out.

I'm well aware of our history, no need to question my knowledge on that subject.

[mad3nch1na]

The Korean war's objective are not as clear as you state, because if it were the Korean war would have ended. Though technically we are at a cease fire, there are still US troops protecting the DMZ and the conflict is still considered as "on going".

Both wars were waged due to red scare, but they were never really a threat to us. And Vietnam could have been totally avoided, given that the Gulf of Tonkin incident was staged.

[Spektrewing386]

if north korea took over south korea in the 50s..... we would not have many of our beloved electronics and other items

[Sledlude]

theres always china.

[soul]

theres always china.
bout to say, 99% of the time it say made in china, i dont remember last time i saw "made in Korea" or something to that extent

[Tank]

I wish more people would listen to what tony says, as one of the many soldiers that has visited the desert sand more then id like to admit. I can say i wish we.........

1. never invaded

2. Pulled the hell out

3. get back to fixing our economy

thats all i wanted to say on that.......

[BanginJimmy]

I wasnt a proponant of the war, but its beyond that point now. Leaving before that country is self sustainable will be worse for us in the long run.

Our economy is down a bit, but not all that bad. The only sector really being hurt is the housing market. There is a trickle down effect into the financials, but its not nearly as bad as some would like you to think.

[0p7!mu5]

we shoulda let them duke it out amongst themselves. I tried to say earlier (and royally ****ed up in me being pissed) is that 9/10 time in history that i know of people rebelled against their government if the people were being seriously repressed look at Tibet,Ireland,France and even the US. We got sick of someone's **** and fought back. if these bastards can take out 4000+ of us they can handle themselves. They dont have WMD obviously, Saddam is gone, and we're losing support from much of the world. What I don't get (all U.S involvement) aside is why the hell Iraq cant get their **** together and form a government so we can bring our people home? They don't seem to be making an effort worth half a damn. Sure the violence has gone down a lil since the "surge" but honestly no matter when we leave if they don't get a working government together then **** is still going to hit the fan the moment we leave anyway. We're just delaying the inevitable. just my opinion sorry for the rambling earlier..

[tony]

I wasnt a proponant of the war, but its beyond that point now. Leaving before that country is self sustainable will be worse for us in the long run.



So.. we'll be right where we were before we attacked. Damn then what good was the invasion? Let them figure it out, they're smart people. I mean, they are intelligent enough to produce nuclear weapons but cannot form a functional government?


Our economy is down a bit, but not all that bad. The only sector really being hurt is the housing market. There is a trickle down effect into the financials, but its not nearly as bad as some would like you to think.

Value of the dollar is tanking, we borrow from China to fund a war in Iraq.. 2 or 3 airlines grounded their fleet last week, gas is at an all time high even when you factor inflation.. and three months of job losses.

The first step to any recovery is recognition that there is a problem. A drug addict doesn't seek help if they do not acknowledge that they have a problem in the first place. No recession was overcome without accepting that the economy is not in a good position so this idea that "everything is fine and dandy" only stagnates the process of recovery. Accept it, Economy is bad.. there is plenty of potential if people let things take its course but continuing the habits that put us here prolongs the inevitable.

[Kaiser]

If Iraq was some 3rd world country and not one of the largest Oil Producers in the world I would be impressed.

We claim that Iraq had technology to build Nuclear weapons but would like to believe they could not send their children to school?

I was installing lines for a soldier who just came back and I asked her if the media reports accurately about Iraq, verbatim she said to me "No, its worse." I hardly think Iraq was in great despair before we invaded.

I don't quite see how reality could be worse than reporting. The only thing CNN doesn't cover is when there's armed robbery in Iraq, and I'm pretty sure here soon they'll start covering that as well. Just two days ago I was sleepless and watching CNN and they had a story about an Iraqi guy killing someone else over unpaid money. I don't understand when that makes the LOCAL news where it happens, let alone making international news.

Besides that, 10 years ago Iraq was near the bottom of the barrel when it came to most of these things. Income disparity was incredible. Now that America cleanly knocked off or ran out a good chunk of the upper class, the middle class has a chance to take over. Don't think Iraq was some bastion of civilization. They were stuck in the 1950's for all intents, except in the most rich neighborhoods. Some of their neighbors (the Kingdom) are STILL stuck in 1950's.

[tony]

I don't quite see how reality could be worse than reporting. The only thing CNN doesn't cover is when there's armed robbery in Iraq, and I'm pretty sure here soon they'll start covering that as well. Just two days ago I was sleepless and watching CNN and they had a story about an Iraqi guy killing someone else over unpaid money. I don't understand when that makes the LOCAL news where it happens, let alone making international news.

Besides that, 10 years ago Iraq was near the bottom of the barrel when it came to most of these things. Income disparity was incredible. Now that America cleanly knocked off or ran out a good chunk of the upper class, the middle class has a chance to take over. Don't think Iraq was some bastion of civilization. They were stuck in the 1950's for all intents, except in the most rich neighborhoods. Some of their neighbors (the Kingdom) are STILL stuck in 1950's.

If Iraq's economy suffered it was due to Economic sanctions after Desert Storm, kind of hard to grow when nobody will trade with you.. and that was the fault of Saddam. Nonetheless their economy slowly rebuilt itself and as I said before Hussein decided to switch Iraq's oil reserves to Euro's in the late 90's as the U.N authorized Iraq to begin trade again. Trust me.. their economy was so much better than it is now, we've done them no favors in that respect.

On the press.. let's see here. If 10 Soldiers were killed here in Atlanta this week but a school opened up which one do you think the media is going to run with? Probably the one that garners the most ratings.. which is going to be about the soldiers not the school, positive press doesn't sell.

It's the same reason why if I start a thread about something positive on this forum it will get a few views and no replies, but drama will have 20 pages of content. Do your part and turn the Tv off, write the producer about your feelings on what they put out there and if enough people do this you will see results.

[Kaiser]

If Iraq's economy suffered it was due to Economic sanctions after Desert Storm, kind of hard to grow when nobody will trade with you.. and that was the fault of Saddam. Nonetheless their economy slowly rebuilt itself and as I said before Hussein decided to switch Iraq's oil reserves to Euro's in the late 90's as the U.N authorized Iraq to begin trade again. Trust me.. their economy was so much better than it is now, we've done them no favors in that respect.

On the press.. let's see here. If 10 Soldiers were killed here in Atlanta this week but a school opened up which one do you think the media is going to run with? Probably the one that garners the most ratings.. which is going to be about the soldiers not the school, positive press doesn't sell.

It's the same reason why if I start a thread about something positive on this forum it will get a few views and no replies, but drama will have 20 pages of content. Do your part and turn the Tv off, write the producer about your feelings on what they put out there and if enough people do this you will see results.

I actually did turn the TV off at that point, because it made me realize what a waste of time it was. Lately my TV only gets turned on to watch a movie, or run a console.

As to your point about the media: I don't disagree. I don't expect them to portray anything in a positive light because it doesn't attract the kind of attention and response that negativity does. However, I was pointing out that they are sinking to what seems to me to be a new low by reporting what's sadly a common fact of life around the world as news on a major international news network.

And as to their economy: I dunno if you'd noticed, but there are very few economies in the world right now who can brag about having massive growth over the past 24 months, and not many more who can say they're still experiencing a positive trending in growth. Overall the world's economy is experiencing, at the least, a correction due in part at least to overinvestment in subprime mortgages. Betting on bad loans cost lots of people large sums of money they are now seeking to liquidate assets to cover. Iraq is no different there, since currently their economy is being funded by the steadily sinking USD, they're not exactly floating in cash right now. However the future looks sunny for them, since they primarily sell oil to nations to transact in EUD's rather than USD's. Their own weak currency combined with an export to a strong currency is what fueled European and Japanese growth through most of the last quarter century. While Iraq's economy had been recovering before, it still had an intense income disparity as a result of the political system in place there. Instead of looking like Saudi Arabia, Iraq has a chance to look more like some of it's more economically modern neighbors.

[0p7!mu5]

I actually did turn the TV off at that point, because it made me realize what a waste of time it was. Lately my TV only gets turned on to watch a movie, or run a console.

As to your point about the media: I don't disagree. I don't expect them to portray anything in a positive light because it doesn't attract the kind of attention and response that negativity does. However, I was pointing out that they are sinking to what seems to me to be a new low by reporting what's sadly a common fact of life around the world as news on a major international news network.

And as to their economy: I dunno if you'd noticed, but there are very few economies in the world right now who can brag about having massive growth over the past 24 months, and not many more who can say they're still experiencing a positive trending in growth. Overall the world's economy is experiencing, at the least, a correction due in part at least to overinvestment in subprime mortgages. Betting on bad loans cost lots of people large sums of money they are now seeking to liquidate assets to cover. Iraq is no different there, since currently their economy is being funded by the steadily sinking USD, they're not exactly floating in cash right now. However the future looks sunny for them, since they primarily sell oil to nations to transact in EUD's rather than USD's. Their own weak currency combined with an export to a strong currency is what fueled European and Japanese growth through most of the last quarter century. While Iraq's economy had been recovering before, it still had an intense income disparity as a result of the political system in place there. Instead of looking like Saudi Arabia, Iraq has a chance to look more like some of it's more economically modern neighbors.

If they can stop bombing each other and get a government together first until then we just helped them go back another 50 years or so and they way its looking im betting a civil war is going to break out.:no:

[tony]

And as to their economy: I dunno if you'd noticed, but there are very few economies in the world right now who can brag about having massive growth over the past 24 months, and not many more who can say they're still experiencing a positive trending in growth. Overall the world's economy is experiencing, at the least, a correction due in part at least to overinvestment in subprime mortgages.

Brazil, Denmark (Both of which produce their own energy, Denmark is a welfare state too for those who don't believe in such a thing) Dubai, India, China, Vietnam has seen continuous growth in their economy. As I said before there is a ton of potential here in the U.S to turn things around in a legitimate way..

I don't have a crystal ball but if I was going to guess as to why Iraq's growth stunted early in this decade before the war it was due to low oil prices. (When we thought $1.20 a gallon was high) With oil prices as they are now and the solid Euro.. I'll go ahead and say that Iraq would be in a good position economically right now. Again.. this is just one hippie's opinion and not the gospel.

[BanginJimmy]

[QUOTE=tony]Brazil, Denmark (Both of which produce their own energy, Denmark is a welfare state too for those who don't believe in such a thing) Dubai, India, China, Vietnam has seen continuous growth in their economy. As I said before there is a ton of potential here in the U.S to turn things around in a legitimate way.. [\quote]

you need to compare apples to apples. The average 16y/o working at McD's makes more an hour than the average worker in all of those countries combined. Not to mention that 2 of the 4 are communist countries.

India's caste system is so entrenched that being born into a lower class family means you will not goto school, and you will live your life in the lower class. NOTHING you do with your life will change that.

[tony]

[QUOTE=tony]Brazil, Denmark (Both of which produce their own energy, Denmark is a welfare state too for those who don't believe in such a thing) Dubai, India, China, Vietnam has seen continuous growth in their economy. As I said before there is a ton of potential here in the U.S to turn things around in a legitimate way.. [\quote]

you need to compare apples to apples. The average 16y/o working at McD's makes more an hour than the average worker in all of those countries combined. Not to mention that 2 of the 4 are communist countries.

India's caste system is so entrenched that being born into a lower class family means you will not goto school, and you will live your life in the lower class. NOTHING you do with your life will change that.

You're right, apples to apples would be comparing countries that are as technologically advanced as the U.S.. none of those I listed with maybe the exception of China compares on that level.. which makes their accomplishments that much more admirable.

[95alty]

..... im enjoying all this... no oppositions here...

[BanginJimmy]

You're right, apples to apples would be comparing countries that are as technologically advanced as the U.S.. none of those I listed with maybe the exception of China compares on that level.. which makes their accomplishments that much more admirable.


all of those countries, including China, make low quality mass produced goods. With the minimal wages they pay it is possible for companies dump large portions of their capital into expansion, and in the case of Viet-nam and China back into their social progams.

If any country in the world stopped trading with the US today our enconomy would fall flat, but recover in within a couple of years. If just he US stopped trading with China their entire economy would collapse within months. You just cannot compare a free market economy to that of one of a communist country.