Gun law age in South Carolina Changed to 18

[Dracc]

here it is (http://www.wltx.com/news/story.aspx?storyid=60469)



how many of you think this is going to back fire... I personally think with all the gun violence we have had back home, that this is just going to create more of a problem... Mind you that they are not changing the concealed weapons age from 21 to 18 but just the tright to own and purchase a gun at the age of 18.

[_Christian_]

now it's just like the majority of states.

p.s. in the majority of crimes involving firearms, the firearms were obtained illegally.

[quickdodge®]

Dracc, why is this in here? This should be in the WAll STREET section. Later, QD.

[81911SC]

I'm jealous. Look at IL and their crime rates.

[Alan®]

My take:

It's not necessarily a bad thing because as it was said earlier the majority of crimes involving firearms the firearms themselves are illegal. I think with the killings the last couple of months involving college students not to mention Virginia Tech it just seems to me like a good idea. The majority of College campuses I have been to are open and just about anybody can drive through walk onto them making them like a candy store for criminals. I don't know if you can here in Georgia but if I could carry on campus I would in a heart beat. There was a shooting here at Gordon the first semester and not having a weapon nearby made me a little uneasy.

[Alan®]

Oh and BTW 14 and 16 to buy handguns WTF?

[Dracc]

Dracc, why is this in here? This should be in the WAll STREET section. Later, QD.

more traffic through here.. but go ahead and have it moved dizzle

[LS2ner]

My take:

It's not necessarily a bad thing because as it was said earlier the majority of crimes involving firearms the firearms themselves are illegal. I think with the killings the last couple of months involving college students not to mention Virginia Tech it just seems to me like a good idea. The majority of College campuses I have been to are open and just about anybody can drive through walk onto them making them like a candy store for criminals. I don't know if you can here in Georgia but if I could carry on campus I would in a heart beat. There was a shooting here at Gordon the first semester and not having a weapon nearby made me a little uneasy.


So making it easier to access weapons for college students is a good thing? So now the mentally insane ones can purchase their guns legally. Your also saying you want to be able to carry on school property (which is illegal in the state of georgia) which would make it easier for the same mentally insane guys to get their guns in the classroom.

Doesn't make much sense.

[Alan®]

So making it easier to access weapons for college students is a good thing? So now the mentally insane ones can purchase their guns legally. Your also saying you want to be able to carry on school property (which is illegal in the state of georgia) which would make it easier for the same mentally insane guys to get their guns in the classroom.

Doesn't make much sense.

***NOTE THIS IS NOT A THREAT OF ANY TYPE JUST A HYPOTHETICAL CITUATION***
K let me try and explain this a different way because I understand where your coming from. I don't know what it's like at Tech but. Here at Gordon if someone went and bought say a Walther or anything else small enough to stick in a pocket or the front pouch of a back pack no one would every know about it. They do room checks and stuff here but are not allowed to look at anything unless it's in plain sight. Meaning if one day someone just lost it and decided to bring a gun to school. they could bring it and others on campus stockpile them in my closet and no one would ever know about it until it was too late. Hell to be completely honest I wouldn't be surprised if there already are a few on campus. I know that my english professor told me that his life insurance is more expensive living here in the middle of nowhere than it was living in philly because you have a better chance getting shot down here than you do there.

Personally I don't know how many kids parents around here would allow them to carry a weapon out of the house let alone schoo but. With as open as my campus and as small as the campus PD is here. If the law changed to where I could carry on campus. I would.

Watch I'll get questioned as I'm posting this from school

[81911SC]

So making it easier to access weapons for college students is a good thing? So now the mentally insane ones can purchase their guns legally. Your also saying you want to be able to carry on school property (which is illegal in the state of georgia) which would make it easier for the same mentally insane guys to get their guns in the classroom.

Doesn't make much sense.
WTF are you bringing mentally insane people in here for?

[JConner]

i dont know about 18 year olds carrying, but i would love to see guns allowed on campus, in malls, etc (with a lisence of course)... this would put an end to all of these campus shootings/mall shootings.

[Alan®]

i dont know about 18 year olds carrying, but i would love to see guns allowed on campus, in malls, etc (with a lisence of course)... this would put an end to all of these campus shootings/mall shootings.
glad to see someone else agrees with me.

[81911SC]

***NOTE THIS IS NOT A THREAT OF ANY TYPE JUST A HYPOTHETICAL CITUATION***
K let me try and explain this a different way because I understand where your coming from. I don't know what it's like at Tech but. Here at Gordon if someone went and bought say a Walther or anything else small enough to stick in a pocket or the front pouch of a back pack no one would every know about it. They do room checks and stuff here but are not allowed to look at anything unless it's in plain sight. Meaning if one day someone just lost it and decided to bring a gun to school. they could bring it and others on campus stockpile them in my closet and no one would ever know about it until it was too late. Hell to be completely honest I wouldn't be surprised if there already are a few on campus. I know that my english professor told me that his life insurance is more expensive living here in the middle of nowhere than it was living in philly because you have a better chance getting shot down here than you do there.

Personally I don't know how many kids parents around here would allow them to carry a weapon out of the house let alone schoo but. With as open as my campus and as small as the campus PD is here. If the law changed to where I could carry on campus. I would.

Watch I'll get questioned as I'm posting this from school
Walthers are not that small. There are plenty smaller ones. ;)

[Dracc]

i dont know about 18 year olds carrying, but i would love to see guns allowed on campus, in malls, etc (with a lisence of course)... this would put an end to all of these campus shootings/mall shootings.


I understand that.. but listen to this ... wouldnt that give all the crazy and insane people with no PRIORS the oppertunity to own and carry a weapon.. so you'll be walkin on campus and in the mall with that guy that forgot to take his meds with his pistol on him and he deciedes to go postal and shoot you 7 times in the back

[osiriskidd]

i dont know about 18 year olds carrying, but i would love to see guns allowed on campus, in malls, etc (with a lisence of course)... this would put an end to all of these campus shootings/mall shootings.

i honestly think it'll just add to it.
it only takes a second of anger for you to decide to pull that trigger. i.e. anything can spark it.

[Alan®]

this is going to be a very intresting discussion i predict

[81911SC]

No, it won't be interesting. It will be annoying.
The IA liberal trash will continue talking about mentals and even though they can't legally buy, they will say they can.

[Dracc]

No, it won't be interesting. It will be annoying.
The IA liberal trash will continue talking about mentals and even though they can't legally buy, they will say they can.


I already own... but others will voice there minds then about page 3 the bullshiit will rise

[81911SC]

They will say things like "anybody can get them now, murders will rise."
All the same shiit, with no proof to stand on.

[JConner]

I understand that.. but listen to this ... wouldnt that give all the crazy and insane people with no PRIORS the oppertunity to own and carry a weapon.. so you'll be walkin on campus and in the mall with that guy that forgot to take his meds with his pistol on him and he deciedes to go postal and shoot you 7 times in the back


nothing is stoping that insane person with no priors from getting a lisence to carry right now!!! So if the insane person knew that other SANE students are carrying guns, he wouldnt be as tempted to shoot up the school!

[Dracc]

nothing is stoping that insane person with no priors from getting a lisence to carry right now!!! So if the insane person knew that other SANE students are carrying guns, he wouldnt be as tempted to shoot up the school!

would it stop him if he planned on taking his own life anyway...:screwy:

[JConner]

glad to see someone else agrees with me.h

ha i tried to rep you but i think i repped you on some other debate so it wont let me until i spread some! i think we agree on most topics on here it seems :cheers:

[JConner]

would it stop him if he planned on taking his own life anyway...:screwy:

i can tell you this, he/she definately wouldnt get the chance to shoot as many people IF ANY as the latest shootings if other students were carrying, they would take his/her life for him/her.

[KREEP]

I own many guns and have a concealed permit and am a responsible person,but I dont think you should be able to take them on campus. Licenced Authorities like campus police and security should be the only to carry. I think that the carry permit laws in ga are great. Lisenced individuals should be a be to carry at all times in their vehicle and on them in permited areas. I dont think changing the age to purchase and own a handgun to the age of 18 is right. I think the age limit should stay high to weed out idiots and at least give the idiots time to mature a little.

[81911SC]

Kreep, you can buy a rifle at 18, dummy.
Yes, campus police and security has been so helpful in the past. Thank god the police and swat didn't have to come in.
http://smiliesftw.com/x/huge_hs_ugh.gif (http://smiliesftw.com)

[KREEP]

Most nsane people wouldnt go it a courthouse and have all of their fingerprints taken. They are afraid of THE MAN. The process of getting your permit is a great way to weed out crazy individuals but doesnt get em all. Most insane people that are insan usually have prior convictions and you can see everything in a background check. Fried of mine said he couldnt get his permit cause he had a DUI. He probably had something else Is a dui a felony?

[LS2ner]

No, it won't be interesting. It will be annoying.
The IA liberal trash will continue talking about mentals and even though they can't legally buy, they will say they can.


How am i liberal? By saying its stupid to allow weapons on campus? I own a few myself and have been shooting since i was 7 so dont act like i dont know what im talking about. At 18 your perspective is different. If some guy gets pissed because his girlfriend is getting gang banged by the football team, the ability to legally carry his 9mm onto campus will only give him more of a reason to put some rounds into them.

If everyone could carry then try to act like heroes because they have a gun it could also result in more innocent people getting killed. Thats what police are for.

I dont mind debating this with you, but plz dont have that ****head attitude for no reason.

[JConner]

s
I own many guns and have a concealed permit and am a responsible person,but I dont think you should be able to take them on campus. Licenced Authorities like campus police and security should be the only to carry. I think that the carry permit laws in ga are great. Lisenced individuals should be a be to carry at all times in their vehicle and on them in permited areas. I dont think changing the age to purchase and own a handgun or rifle to the age of 18 is right. I think the age limit should stay high to weed out idiots and at least give the idiots time to mature a little.


i agree on the age factor. but, have you not noticed that shootings don't occur in places where people are allowed to carry? The shootings happen in places where it is unlikely that anyone will have defense.

[LS2ner]

I own many guns and have a concealed permit and am a responsible person,but I dont think you should be able to take them on campus. Licenced Authorities like campus police and security should be the only to carry. I think that the carry permit laws in ga are great. Lisenced individuals should be a be to carry at all times in their vehicle and on them in permited areas. I dont think changing the age to purchase and own a handgun to the age of 18 is right. I think the age limit should stay high to weed out idiots and at least give the idiots time to mature a little.


I agree.

[LS2ner]

Most nsane people wouldnt go it a courthouse and have all of their fingerprints taken. They are afraid of THE MAN. The process of getting your permit is a great way to weed out crazy individuals but doesnt get em all. Most insane people that are insan usually have prior convictions and you can see everything in a background check. Fried of mine said he couldnt get his permit cause he had a DUI. He probably had something else Is a dui a felony?


Right now, a DUI keep you from getting your permit.

[KREEP]

Age of 18 can buy rifles I knew that.......fixed. I was just typing and not looking at what I was typing.

[JConner]

btw the "campus police" aka RENT A COP's at my school are always laughing and chatting in a big group together, they would never know what to do if anything serious happened. I even saw the campus police car at the local mcdonalds one day instead of patroling campus.

[81911SC]

How am i liberal? By saying its stupid to allow weapons on campus? I own a few myself and have been shooting since i was 7 so dont act like i dont know what im talking about. At 18 your perspective is different. If some guy gets pissed because his girlfriend is getting gang banged by the football team, the ability to legally carry his 9mm onto campus will only give him more of a reason to put some rounds into them.

If everyone could carry then try to act like heroes because they have a gun it could also result in more innocent people getting killed. Thats what police are for.

I dont mind debating this with you, but plz dont have that ****head attitude for no reason.
Did I say you specifically?
I didn't think so.
Yea, since he can carry legally that will make him want to kill them.
It makes sense to sit and wait for police to come. What if the guy comes at you? Tell him to hold up and wait for the police?
Did you see the article a little while ago about the lady being shot while on the phone with 911 waiting for the police?
You don't have to go all hero and run around but if he or she comes for you, they won't wait for the police.

[redrumracer]

nothing wrong with it. hell now instead of getting it illegally they can have a record

[JConner]

Right now, a DUI keep you from getting your permit.


very true! and that is the way it should be. if someone will drink and drive they will drink and carry

edit: but i still dont agree with you on where people should be allowed to carry guns :)

[81911SC]

btw the "campus police" aka RENT A COP's at my school are always laughing and chatting in a big group together, they would never know what to do if anything serious happened. I even saw the campus police car at the local mcdonalds one day instead of patroling campus.
Most don't. Hell, half of them are 50+ that I've seen. Yea, I would rather him try and stop the guy(s) and wait for real cops. :rolleyes:

[KREEP]

s


i agree on the age factor. but, have you not noticed that shootings don't occur in places where people are allowed to carry? The shootings happen in places where it is unlikely that anyone will have defense. Stepping up with higher security. This is a crazy world we live in....I have guns everywhere I feel I will need em. In my car, next to my bed, one or 2 in every room of the house and when I leave my car if I am able I carry my weapon. See I use security measures for myself and my family anyway I can.....so should police and campus security. They need to step it up a notch. You can never have too much of something.

[LS2ner]

Did I say you specifically?
I didn't think so.
Yea, since he can carry legally that will make him want to kill them.
It makes sense to sit and wait for police to come. What if the guy comes at you? Tell him to hold up and wait for the police?
Did you see the article a little while ago about the lady being shot while on the phone with 911 waiting for the police?
You don't have to go all hero and run around but if he or she comes for you, they won't wait for the police.


Sorry, it seemed you were directing it to me. My point wasnt exactly that it would make him want to kill them because he can legally carry, but mainly that it could give him more incentive to do it. Why try to fight a bunch of guys when you can put some hot shiit in their chest?

I understand what your saying about waiting for the police, but hopefully you wouldnt stay on the line if someone is running around shooting. Id personally by running my ass off.

I didnt read that article about the lady, where was she at when it happened?

Edited*** Meant wasnt*

[KREEP]

Redrum has seen my gun collection I dont play. If someone comes into my house with a weapon prepared to Hold a few rounds. lol

[JConner]

Stepping up with higher security. This is a crazy world we live in....I have guns everywhere I feel I will need em. In my car, next to my bed, one or 2 in every room of the house and when I leave my car if I am able I carry my weapon. See I use security measures for myself and my family anyway I can.....so should police and campus security. They need to step it up a notch. You can never have too much of something.

AMEN!

In places like Washington D.C. where they have a gun ban, crime has increased ten fold!

but i still dont agree with you on the carrying on campus deal either

[81911SC]

Stepping up with higher security. This is a crazy world we live in....I have guns everywhere I feel I will need em. In my car, next to my bed, one or 2 in every room of the house and when I leave my car if I am able I carry my weapon. See I use security measures for myself and my family anyway I can.....so should police and campus security. They need to step it up a notch. You can never have too much of something.
The fact is they won't. They won't invest the money into trainning for rental cops or will continue to think it couldn't happen to them.
I'm not going to trust a old man with a flashlight (I'm sure my SureFire is brighter anyway) to cover my ass.

[81911SC]

Sorry, it seemed you were directing it to me. My point was exactly that it would make him want to kill them because he can legally carry, but mainly that it could give him more incentive to do it. Why try to fight a bunch of guys when you can out some hot shiit in their chest?

I understand what your saying about waiting for the police, but hopefully you wouldnt stay on the line if someone is running around shooting. Id personally by running my ass off.

I didnt read that article about the lady, where was she at when it happened?
I doubt he will go from, a fight to killing just because he can carry. Don't make much sense.
It's not about staying on the line. If someone comes in from downstairs, where you going to run? Jump out the window, break a leg then run? Come on, this isn't the movies.
I can't remember the details of the article.

[JConner]

The fact is they won't. They won't invest the money into trainning for rental cops or will continue to think it couldn't happen to them.
I'm not going to trust a old man with a flashlight (I'm sure my SureFire is brighter anyway) to cover my ass.

:cheers:

[KREEP]

The age should not be lowered security needs to step up. Crazy 18 year old drunk college students that think they are thugs with hand guns???? Are you crazy!??!? Cops and fire fighters are the most underpaid people imo. Its a tough job that should be taken more seriously. You cant always catch the crazy guy with the guns on campus but if security was stepped up maybe the crazy guy would kill or harm a few less or disarm the guy before anything bad happens

[LS2ner]

The fact is they won't. They won't invest the money into trainning for rental cops or will continue to think it couldn't happen to them.
I'm not going to trust a old man with a flashlight (I'm sure my SureFire is brighter anyway) to cover my ass.


I have a Surefire aswell, awesome flashlights. Was gonna buy the adapter to put it on my uncles AR, but since he wont sell it to me i decided not too.

On a side note, even if they do pass this law, it wont decrease illegal gun purchase because its cheaper and easier to buy one illegally.

[JConner]

I bet that not too far from now we will see articles on how gun crime's have dropped in SC.

[LS2ner]

I doubt he will go from, a fight to killing just because he can carry. Don't make much sense.
It's not about staying on the line. If someone comes in from downstairs, where you going to run? Jump out the window, break a leg then run? Come on, this isn't the movies.
I can't remember the details of the article.


I edited my post. meant it wasnt my point. But youre right. If they came in from the downstairs then you wouldnt have many places to run. Id certainly consider jumping out of the window instead of getting shot though.

[81911SC]

The age should not be lowered security needs to step up. Crazy 18 year old drunk college students that think they are thugs with hand guns???? Are you crazy!??!? Cops and fire fighters are the most underpaid people imo. Its a tough job that should be taken more seriously. You cant always catch the crazy guy with the guns on campus but if security was stepped up maybe the crazy guy would kill or harm a few less or disarm the guy before anything bad happens
Yea, you hear a lot of stories with 18 yr old drunk college students shooting everything up.
People who are like that won't go the legal route. Yes, security should be stepped up, but you actually believe that is possible and that everyone would do it? What about IL?

[KREEP]

The fact is they won't. They won't invest the money into trainning for rental cops or will continue to think it couldn't happen to them.
I'm not going to trust a old man with a flashlight (I'm sure my SureFire is brighter anyway) to cover my ass. Old man with a flashlight FTL. All campus police should be trained and packin. You are right they will never come off the hip and pay for higher security until campus shooting get out of control. I am safe that is all I know.

[81911SC]

I have a Surefire aswell, awesome flashlights. Was gonna buy the adapter to put it on my uncles AR, but since he wont sell it to me i decided not too.

On a side note, even if they do pass this law, it wont decrease illegal gun purchase because its cheaper and easier to buy one illegally.
Exactly. They make stiffer gun laws but it just hurts the law abiding citizens. Show me a thug or a rapper (:lmfao:) who buys their guns legally.
I'll wait.
Rapper part was a joke. Mostly.

[81911SC]

Old man with a flashlight FTL. All campus police should be trained and packin. You are right they will never come off the hip and pay for higher security until campus shooting get out of control. I am safe that is all I know.
Me too. Looking to get "safer" :D

[KREEP]

Surefire lights FTW

[LS2ner]

Exactly. They make stiffer gun laws but it just hurts the law abiding citizens. Show me a thug or a rapper (:lmfao:) who buys their guns legally.
I'll wait.
Rapper part was a joke. Mostly.


I know Proof from d-12 owned one legally, and he got shot in the head by someone who didnt own his legally.

One of the reasons i see the law not being a good idea is because at 18 some of the idiots havent had a chance to do something stupid. Their records will be clean and it'll be easier for them to get the gun. I think right now its like a 3 month waiting time on permits, and like 3 days for the purchase of a handgun.

[JConner]

I know Proof from d-12 owned one legally, and he got shot in the head by someone who didnt own his legally.

One of the reasons i see the law not being a good idea is because at 18 some of the idiots havent had a chance to do something stupid. Their records will be clean and it'll be easier for them to get the gun. I think right now its like a 3 month waiting time on permits, and like 3 days for the purchase of a handgun.

so you have one legit example of a rapper with a legal gun. HAHAHHA


T.I. is in jail right now for trying to buy a machine gun downtown, what an example! And then some idiot let him out of jail to go to church Easter Sunday and speak. Then kids see this guy and hear his "music" and think... damn he is cool, i want to be like him. So then they start wearing their pants below their ass (which means you are open to male company in jail), acting tough, slangin' drungs and packin'

[KREEP]

I know Proof from d-12 owned one legally, and he got shot in the head by someone who didnt own his legally.

One of the reasons i see the law not being a good idea is because at 18 some of the idiots havent had a chance to do something stupid. Their records will be clean and it'll be easier for them to get the gun. I think right now its like a 3 month waiting time on permits, and like 3 days for the purchase of a handgun. Godblees you that all that needed to be said! Couldnt put it anybetter myself:goodjob:

[81911SC]

I know Proof from d-12 owned one legally, and he got shot in the head by someone who didnt own his legally.

One of the reasons i see the law not being a good idea is because at 18 some of the idiots havent had a chance to do something stupid. Their records will be clean and it'll be easier for them to get the gun. I think right now its like a 3 month waiting time on permits, and like 3 days for the purchase of a handgun.
It don't take 3 days, I'm 90% sure.
Don't think a 3 month wait time either, depends on county.

[LS2ner]

so you have one legit example of a rapper with a legal gun. HAHAHHA


T.I. is in jail right now for trying to buy a machine gun downtown, what an example! And then some idiot let him out of jail to go to church Easter Sunday and speak. Then kids see this guy and hear his "music" and think... damn he is cool, i want to be like him. So then they start wearing their pants below their ass (which means you are open to male company in jail), acting tough, slangin' drungs and packin'


:???: Wasn't trying to defend rappers or anything. Was making the point of people owning legal weapons and people owning illegal weapons.

[LS2ner]

It don't take 3 days, I'm 90% sure.
Don't think a 3 month wait time either, depends on county.


Ohh, thats what the guy at the gun store told me last time i was down there (3 months ago).

[KREEP]

I dont know the time frame for puchase of a handgun without a permit?????? anyone? It took me a couple weeks to get my concealed permit way back when and it only takes me a couple minutes to purchase a handgun.....thank god!

[quickdodge®]

Ohh, thats what the guy at the gun store told me last time i was down there (3 months ago).

It only takes about 15 minutes to purchase a handgun. The store you buy it at will send in a form that you fill out for a background check.

Then, when you go get your CCW, depending on the county you live in, it could take upwards to 4-5 months. Gwinnett is usually around 2 month turn around. I got my CCW in 6 weeks. Later, QD.

[LS2ner]

It only takes about 15 minutes to purchase a handgun. The store you buy it at will send in a form that you fill out for a background check.

Then, when you go get your CCW, depending on the county you live in, it could take upwards to 4-5 months. Gwinnett is usually around 2 month turn around. I got my CCW in 6 weeks. Later, QD.


Oh, the guy told me that it depends usually. He said a guy bought one earlier and it took 2 days for a different guy.

I haven't applied for my CCW license yet because I havent had time. Hopefully it wont take that long.

[quickdodge®]

Oh, the guy told me that it depends usually. He said a guy bought one earlier and it took 2 days for a different guy.

It really depends on the person. Mine took about 15 minutes. My shiit was sent in and came back damn near immediately. Any discrepancies will trigger an "investigation" of the individual applying. Later, QD.

[BB6dohcvtec]

I bet that not too far from now we will see articles on how gun crime's have dropped in SC.

take a look at the demographics then readdress your comment :lmfao: .

[KREEP]

I think they ought to add drug tests when applying for your permit among other things.

[BB6dohcvtec]

I think they ought to add drug tests when applying for your permit among other things.

x2

[Ruiner]

You all know that this is a "joke" website, right? This is the same site that said that NC and SC were going to join together and form one state by 2018 or something...

[mad3nch1na]

I feel like I'm jumping into this discussion a bit late, but I do agree that 18 is a bit too young to own a hand gun. Granted it would be a legal purchase of a hand gun, but the mind of an 18 year old is just not mature enough in my opinion.

In regards to carrying weapons at schools, I believe that one should be permited to carry if and only if he or she has a concealed weapons permit. Some times the police can not respond fast enough, and a person with a concealed weapon could stop the shooting immediately, this would cause at least a few lives to be saved.

In regards to the statement made about the mentally ill people and people that are insane, bear in mind that THEY ARE INSANE. If something strokes them the wrong way, and God forbid, they decide to kill some one, do you really thing a feeble law stating “lulz no guns allowed plz” would stop them if they choose go as far as to KILL some one?

[81911SC]

Yep, mentality is to weak but they can fight and kill and protect America. Sure.

[Alan®]

Everyone has petty much said everything I would.

My whole thing about the carrying on campus is just that I think of any institution College's are probably the most unsafe. I have been to two major campuses and spent a good bit of time at each(Loyola in Chicago and Tech). And I was just talking to a buddy of mine who lives here in my building and is a former idea and he agrees. Either campus security needs to step up or let us carry. He is personally of the opinion that given the opportunity to carry legally on campus he would. College campuses are simply too big and too open of an area for most campus police to completely lock down and have totally secure.

[81911SC]

Yep, mentality is to weak but they can fight and kill and protect America. Sure.
M1china or something, respond to this.

[Dracc]

to be honest you cant talk for everyone ... so it will just have to pan out