I.N.D.E.P.E.N.D.E.N.T!!!!!!

[SLOWLYbtngU]

We have all heard Webbie's song giving acclaim to the independent women that live their lives for them and everything else is like an "extra"...Well, I was going to blog, but I really do want feedback on this subject... bare with me if it a little long. :(

I was asked today if I feel that the Women's movement hindered relationships in todays day and age and while my inner feminist wanted to say "HELL NO!" I think it has.

I mean I started to think of the things that screw me over in a relationship and I have noticed that all the guys I date say the same thing that I am too prideful (because I pay for my own things when we go out.) My thing is that I do not want any man to feel that they HAVE to provide for me. I can do that by myself. All I ask for is the affection and loving care that comes along with the whole "couple" thing. I understand that for some men, the paying when we go out, is a part of the "loving care," but all I ask is for a guy to be there for me. Sure a friend can be there but the intimacy that comes with being WITH someone cannot be compared to friendship where certain lines don't (or shouldn't) get crossed.

But then!!! There are the guys that expect me to pay when we go out b/c I make more than them. They feel that they are entitled to it since I am the one that makes more...

Honestly, I am utterly confused. My friend says that he thinks that the Women's Movement did a lot less for women than it did for men. He said that basically it created more responsibility for women and has caused some men to be more lax in the responsibility area..I just want some opinions.

Men: Do you prefer a more submissive woman? Are you turned off by a strong headed woman that does what she needs to do to get ahead in life(not sexually)???

Women: Am I the only one that goes through this??? :thinking:

[BABY J]

OH YUMMY! Haven't seen a good topic in a while.... stay-tuned, let me conjure up some science. ;)

J'son

[Scrilla]

We have all heard Webbie's song giving acclaim to the independent women that live their lives for them and everything else is like an "extra"...Well, I was going to blog, but I really do want feedback on this subject... bare with me if it a little long. :(

I was asked today if I feel that the Women's movement hindered relationships in todays day and age and while my inner feminist wanted to say "HELL NO!" I think it has.

I mean I started to think of the things that screw me over in a relationship and I have noticed that all the guys I date say the same thing that I am too prideful (because I pay for my own things when we go out.) My thing is that I do not want any man to feel that they HAVE to provide for me. I can do that by myself. All I ask for is the affection and loving care that comes along with the whole "couple" thing. I understand that for some men, the paying when we go out, is a part of the "loving care," but all I ask is for a guy to be there for me. Sure a friend can be there but the intimacy that comes with being WITH someone cannot be compared to friendship where certain lines don't (or shouldn't) get crossed.

But then!!! There are the guys that expect me to pay when we go out b/c I make more than them. They feel that they are entitled to it since I am the one that makes more...

Honestly, I am utterly confused. My friend says that he thinks that the Women's Movement did a lot less for women than it did for men. He said that basically it created more responsibility for women and has caused some men to be more lax in the responsibility area..I just want some opinions.

Men: Do you prefer a more submissive woman? Are you turned off by a strong headed woman that does what she needs to do to get ahead in life(not sexually)???

Women: Am I the only one that goes through this??? :thinking:



:lmfao:

[SLOWLYbtngU]

:lmfao:
Aww. Mario, you have heard my horror stories and know exactly who I am talking about... I just dont know what I am supposed to act like. Like do I just stay quiet and not state my opinion even if I have one? I mean I just dont know wtf to do...

[Julio]

If a man lets you pay for your **** when out on a date.. he is 100% lame.. I dont give a ****..


That should tell you right there... LAST DATE.. aparently you are messing with the wrong crouwd.

[SLOWLYbtngU]

So if he isn't man enough to stand up to me saying no, then I shouldn't waste my time?

I don't think that I have acquired the ability to just say yes to a guy paying without putting up a fight.

I mean the last guy that meant anything to me, insisted on paying and there was no telling him no. I appreciated it, I really did. But I couldn't keep him for sh*t in this world b/c he said that I spent too much time trying to prove myself...Whatever that means.

[Julio]

So if he isn't man enough to stand up to me saying no, then I shouldn't waste my time?

I don't think that I have acquired the ability to just say yes to a guy paying without putting up a fight.

I mean the last guy that meant anything to me, insisted on paying and there was no telling him no. I appreciated it, I really did. But I couldn't keep him for sh*t in this world b/c he said that I spent too much time trying to prove myself...Whatever that means.


Beleive me, If a man wants to pay for you.. he will.. YOU CANT STOP HIM.. ( unless you bodyslam him to the ground)

I wouldn't waste my time..

That guy that said that.. really didnt want to be with you.. ..

Some guys are seriously scared of independent woman no a days.. to me, independent woman means more sexually frustrated woman out in the world.. due to not having enough time to get some good loving.. So when ever Im out and meet a girl as soon as they say "Im an independent woman".. I think "jackPot"

95% of the time they are not looking to settle down.. but just some serious pipe action...

[Batlground]

LOL @ Julio and the use of "serious pipe action"

My girlfriend is pretty independant. We split stuff all the time, but i also know how to take her out an treat her. First month we dated i never let her pay.

Im all about an independent woman that doesnt need me to baby her. I like a girl that isnt needy and whiny. My girl works full time and goes to school. She takes care of herself but we provide for each other at the same time.

Its a balance really.

My best advice is this:
Make yourself happy, thats the only way you can be happy with someone else.

Sounds selfish but its true. If you are going into a date or relationship trying to prove your independent your bringing alot of angst into the mix. You shouldnt have to prove yourself, it should just be known.

my .02

[AyeJaye]

wow. i was just talkin to someone about this lol. stay tuned..i type it up l8ter

[SLOWLYbtngU]

Beleive me, If a man wants to pay for you.. he will.. YOU CANT STOP HIM.. ( unless you bodyslam him to the ground)

I wouldn't waste my time..

That guy that said that.. really didnt want to be with you.. ..

Some guys are seriously scared of independent woman no a days.. to me, independent woman means more sexually frustrated woman out in the world.. due to not having enough time to get some good loving.. So when ever Im out and meet a girl as soon as they say "Im an independent woman".. I think "jackPot"

95% of the time they are not looking to settle down.. but just some serious pipe action...


See that is the problem... I meet guys and I dont say that I am independent, you can either tell or not..either way, I am very dominant, and tend to do whatever is in my means to get what I want. The only area of my life that I keep getting screwed over in time and time again...is in the relationship capacity.

And yes, you're right. Being independent means that at times I cant help but to think that some men can offer me nothing more than sex. Am I wrong? No, I don't think so...but then when I find a guy that I am serious about and he finds out about the fact that I have used men for sex, they cant deal with that...

[Batlground]

And julio is right, no matter how much more you make then someone else, the man should pay IMO

but maybe we old fashioned :)

[SLOWLYbtngU]

LOL @ Julio and the use of "serious pipe action"

My girlfriend is pretty independant. We split stuff all the time, but i also know how to take her out an treat her. First month we dated i never let her pay.

Im all about an independent woman that doesnt need me to baby her. I like a girl that isnt needy and whiny. My girl works full time and goes to school. She takes care of herself but we provide for each other at the same time.

Its a balance really.

My best advice is this:
Make yourself happy, thats the only way you can be happy with someone else.

Sounds selfish but its true. If you are going into a date or relationship trying to prove your independent your bringing alot of angst into the mix. You shouldnt have to prove yourself, it should just be known.

my .02

I totally agree with you. I dont think it should matter, but as of late I have had the guy that tells me that he brings nothing to the table because he makes less than me, then I have had the guy that feels like I try too hard to prove I can fend for myself, and even when I find someone that may accept me as I am...They have issues with me being the only female member of a squad and refuse to "ride b*tch" to me if I were to ever take them to a meet.

I cant win :rant:

[Julio]

See that is the problem... I meet guys and I dont say that I am independent, you can either tell or not..either way, I am very dominant, and tend to do whatever is in my means to get what I want. The only area of my life that I keep getting screwed over in time and time again...is in the relationship capacity.

And yes, you're right. Being independent means that at times I cant help but to think that some men can offer me nothing more than sex. Am I wrong? No, I don't think so...but then when I find a guy that I am serious about and he finds out about the fact that I have used men for sex, they cant deal with that...



Not to put you on front street.. I know/heard of a couple of cats you messed with...
all I can say is LOL.. straight up little kids.


YOU NEED A ****ING MAN!!! A real man, knows how to handle females at all times.. with no "but,why,who,what,yes,maybe" lame ass excuses..

A real man can break your ***** and turn around and wash dishes with no problems..

[amberghini]

I honestly don't know what to tell you.

My boyfriend pays for 95% of the stuff, because you don't make crap working where I do. But, I do pick up the bill every now and then, or offer to pay something, and he finds it a nice gesture.

I figured most guys would love it if they had a girl who could pay for sh*t. I love it that I have a boyfriend who is willing to buy me food whenever I "demand" it. So, I don't know why the opposite wouldn't work out.

I take that back. My ex-******* didn't pay for ****. I just recalled that out of some repressed memories. He made me pay for a good 85% of the stuff. That pissed me off. Not because he made me pay, but I felt he was leeching (sp?) off of me.

I guess my advice is to find a guy who will let you pay for stuff, or get the waiter to bring the bill while he's in the bathroom. :goodjob:

[SLOWLYbtngU]

And julio is right, no matter how much more you make then someone else, the man should pay IMO

but maybe we old fashioned :)
Nothing wrong with that...Like I said. The last guy that meant anything to me...He wouldn't hear anything about me paying. It's funny how you don't realize how good something is until it's gone...

[Batlground]

It seems like you are messing with immature men. Elevate your game y0!

[SLOWLYbtngU]

Not to put you on front street.. I know/heard of a couple of cats you messed with...
all I can say is LOL.. straight up little kids.


YOU NEED A ****ING MAN!!! A real man, knows how to handle females at all times.. with no "but,why,who,what,yes,maybe" lame ass excuses..

A real man can break your ***** and turn around and wash dishes with no problems..
It's cool, I mean hell, I have told you about some of the guys that I have dated...

So lemme get this right, you think that if I were to find that right MAN, then my independence wouldn't come into play? I would just somehow balance out and quit thinking about it? I mean I think you may be right.

God, my life sounds like Sex in the City...

[Scrilla]

If a man lets you pay for your **** when out on a date.. he is 100% lame.. I dont give a ****..


That should tell you right there... LAST DATE.. aparently you are messing with the wrong crouwd.



:goodjob:

[Julio]

It's cool, I mean hell, I have told you about some of the guys that I have dated...

So lemme get this right, you think that if I were to find that right MAN, then my independence wouldn't come into play? I would just somehow balance out and quit thinking about it? I mean I think you may be right.

God, my life sounds like Sex in the City...



At 1st.. when you 1st start dating a guy.. forget about your independence.... let the dude do the work.
Now, if the relationship works out and you guys become BF and GF then yes.. at the point the new BF will know you are really independent once he gets to know you better and it will/could be great.... when is time to move out.. both of you guys can buy stuff togther..go on trips together etc.. at the point it could actually be a real cool relationship...
But that doesnt garantee happiness.. just make things a little easier....

[SLOWLYbtngU]

It seems like you are messing with immature men. Elevate your game y0!

Lol, maybe that is what it is...I am just dating the wrong people. I don't know. Maybe you're right. All I need to worry about is making myself happy. That is awesome that you are with an independent woman, but I am sure that you are well aware that you do bring something to the table. I hate when men feel like they have nothing to offer and they question why I am with them. It is such a turn off. Like I just feel like screaming at them and telling them to man up..but then again that would shoot their self-esteem to sh*t....again.

[AyeJaye]

hmm julio and batleground jus summed up what i was going to say lol.

[SLOWLYbtngU]

At 1st.. when you 1st start dating a guy.. forget about your independence.... let the dude do the work.
Now, if the relationship works out and you guys become BF and GF then yes.. at the point the new BF will know you are really independent once he gets to know you better and it will/could be great.... when is time to move out.. both of you guys can buy stuff togther..go on trips together etc.. at the point it could actually be a real cool relationship...
But that doesnt garantee happiness.. just make things a little easier....
Thx! :) I swear I dont try to purposely throw out there that I can fend for myself...I just don't want to feel like I owe him anything at the end of the date.


I still cant believe you said the whole pipe thing...God... :o

[SLOWLYbtngU]

hmm julio and batleground jus summed up what i was going to say lol.
Say it anyways...Maybe it will embed itself in my brain...lol

[Scrilla]

I See It As A 50/50 Things, Yes, Julio Made The Exact Point I Was Going To Make, At First, The Man Will Take Care Of Everything No Matter What....


Then After The Relationship Matures, Things Do Change... I Guess Its How Folks Are Raised... Me And Julio Seem To Have The Same Opinion On This One...

[Batlground]

i own a 46in TV, she knows what i brng to the table LOL ;)

[tippatone]

If a man lets you pay for your **** when out on a date.. he is 100% lame.. I dont give a ****..


That should tell you right there... LAST DATE.. aparently you are messing with the wrong crouwd.

This is true in the courtship stage of the relationship, but after you get coupled up, it should be a two way street, he has it sometimes and she got it sometimes, its not fair for either person to pay all the time, as for the original poster of the thread, you should give different type of dudes a shot, IDK but i think you mess with square dudes, you can shoot me if i am wrong.

[Scrilla]

I Personally Think Its A Mans Way Of Showing That He Can Take Care Of Things And You, Then After Time, Its Good For The Woman To Show Appreciation...

[Scrilla]

i own a 46in TV, she knows what i brng to the table LOL ;)


62" Plasma, Sorry Buddy... :lmfao:

[SLOWLYbtngU]

I honestly don't know what to tell you.

My boyfriend pays for 95% of the stuff, because you don't make crap working where I do. But, I do pick up the bill every now and then, or offer to pay something, and he finds it a nice gesture.

I figured most guys would love it if they had a girl who could pay for sh*t. I love it that I have a boyfriend who is willing to buy me food whenever I "demand" it. So, I don't know why the opposite wouldn't work out.

I take that back. My ex-******* didn't pay for ****. I just recalled that out of some repressed memories. He made me pay for a good 85% of the stuff. That pissed me off. Not because he made me pay, but I felt he was leeching (sp?) off of me.

I guess my advice is to find a guy who will let you pay for stuff, or get the waiter to bring the bill while he's in the bathroom. :goodjob:

See that is the thing, the whole dating thing is new to me. I was always in a relationship and never had to worry about anything. We were always 50/50 or every once and a while we would pay for each other..but once again, never an issue.

Well when that ended, I felt like I depended on him waaaay too much and told myself that I would never put that much dependence on anybody Iwas dating or seeing.

I went through my "hoe phase" where all I did was have sex and that is it, no emotional attachments were needed or wanted. In fact they were kinda annoying when they happened. That got old. I started dating seriously trying to find someone compatible to me and I have yet to find it. The reason seems to come up being the same all the time... Either I am too proud or they feel like they have nothing to offer... :blah: :blah: :blah:

[Scrilla]

See that is the thing, the whole dating thing is new to me. I was always in a relationship and never had to worry about anything. We were always 50/50 or every once and a while we would pay for each other..but once again, never an issue.

Well when that ended, I felt like I depended on him waaaay too much and told myself that I would never put that much dependence on anybody Iwas dating or seeing.

I went through my "hoe phase" where all I did was have sex and that is it, no emotional attachments were needed or wanted. In fact they were kinda annoying when they happened. That got old. I started dating seriously trying to find someone compatible to me and I have yet to find it. The reason seems to come up being the same all the time... Either I am too proud or they feel like they have nothing to offer... :blah: :blah: :blah:


:doh:



Seems Like A Dead End Street...

[SLOWLYbtngU]

I See It As A 50/50 Things, Yes, Julio Made The Exact Point I Was Going To Make, At First, The Man Will Take Care Of Everything No Matter What....


Then After The Relationship Matures, Things Do Change... I Guess Its How Folks Are Raised... Me And Julio Seem To Have The Same Opinion On This One...

I know babe, and you have told me a thousand times when you see something wrong with the guys I date. You have called all of them out on their sh*t too... I just seem to only learn the hard way. :(


This is true in the courtship stage of the relationship, but after you get coupled up, it should be a two way street, he has it sometimes and she got it sometimes, its not fair for either person to pay all the time, as for the original poster of the thread, you should give different type of dudes a shot, IDK but i think you mess with square dudes, you can shoot me if i am wrong.


Nah dude, seriously..I have dated it all. The jobless guy, the corporate guy, the customer service guy, the McDonald's guy... All of them...

[SLOWLYbtngU]

:doh:



Seems Like A Dead End Street...
That is how I am feeling. I cant win. I mean I am not going to lie, this is by far the happiest I have ever been...This point in my life right now... All I have is me and while yes I have the support of my friends and family it feels soooo good to be able to support myself and know that when everyone else fails me, I have yet to give up on myself, but damn some kind of companionship would be awesome!

[SLOWLYbtngU]

i own a 46in TV, she knows what i brng to the table LOL ;)
I just saw this sh*t..lol. Hell nah...lmao :lmfao:

[Scrilla]

I know babe, and you have told me a thousand times when you see something wrong with the guys I date. You have called all of them out on their sh*t too... I just seem to only learn the hard way. :(




Nah dude, seriously..I have dated it all. The jobless guy, the corporate guy, the customer service guy, the McDonald's guy... All of them...


Seems Like Your Walking Into Walmart Looking For Louis Vuitton, Its Just Not Going To Happen... You Need To Shop In A Completely New Market...


You Say You're Happy, Enjoy It. I Know Youve Been Through Tons Of Shiet, Just Ride It Out... Youll See That Itll All Work Itself Out In The End. Seems Like Your Forcing Love And I Guess That Too Can Scare These Lame-Os Off...

Just Keep Doing What Youre Doing And Keep It Pimpin... :cheers:

[Scrilla]

Seems Like Your Walking Into Walmart Looking For Louis Vuitton, Its Just Not Going To Happen... You Need To Shop In A Completely New Market...


You Say You're Happy, Enjoy It. I Know Youve Been Through Tons Of Shiet, Just Ride It Out... Youll See That Itll All Work Itself Out In The End. Seems Like Your Forcing Love And I Guess That Too Can Scare These Lame-Os Off...

Just Keep Doing What Youre Doing And Keep It Pimpin... :cheers:


Unless I Run Into You There Again! :yes:


:lmfao:

[SLOWLYbtngU]

Unless I Run Into You There Again! :yes:


:lmfao:
I know right..In my pj's buying cat food..lol GOD!!! :no: :lmao:

[Scrilla]

I know right..In my pj's buying cat food..lol GOD!!! :no: :lmao:



The HAWTNESS.... :idb:

[tippatone]

I wish i had the answer for you, if i did i would apply it to myself, i guess you just got to keep it moving and hope something good comes your way........ or become one of these bitter carpet-munching lesbians......j/k

[SLOWLYbtngU]

I wish i had the answer for you, if i did i would apply it to myself, i guess you just got to keep it moving and hope something good comes your way........ or become one of these bitter carpet-munching lesbians......j/k
Contemplated it...But I couldnt do it...

My friends think I am gay already b/c I go to the strip club with my friends and enjoy the female body. So umm yeah....The guys I date have an issue with that too...lol

[AyeJaye]

interesting lolz

[Batlground]

Contemplated it...But I couldnt do it...

My friends think I am gay already b/c I go to the strip club with my friends and enjoy the female body. So umm yeah....The guys I date have an issue with that too...lol
just cause a girl goes to a strip club doesnt mean anything.

I mean if you are secure in your manhood an you trust your girl, then nothing really matters.

My girlfriend has guy friends, but i trust her, i dont get jealous.

[SLOWLYbtngU]

just cause a girl goes to a strip club doesnt mean anything.

I mean if you are secure in your manhood an you trust your girl, then nothing really matters.

My girlfriend has guy friends, but i trust her, i dont get jealous.

I have had a couple of the guys in Gecko think I am weird cuz of that too though. I guess I am not weirded out when they(the guys I date) question it, b/c I am so used to hearing it from the guys(gecko)

I totally agree with you! :goodjob: You're Da Man!!! :goodjob:

[ironchef]

Contemplated it...But I couldnt do it...

My friends think I am gay already b/c I go to the strip club with my friends and enjoy the female body. So umm yeah....The guys I date have an issue with that too...lolYou're dating some scrubs I gotta say.

A) These days I don't see why it would be wrong for the people to split bills 50/50. The first couple of dates, the guy pays and thats cool. But after that, why should he always front the bill? Relationships should be about give and take and mutual reciprocation. If the chick guaruntees some dome after dinner, thats one thing. But who knows these days?

B) If you go to the strip club and can appreciate the hot strippers, and some guy finds something wrong with that, hes gotta have a few screws lose. Though I suppose if you were getting really into and serious and what not it might make a difference. But, if you're just chilling having a good time, what kind of dumbass would look down on that?

[SLOWLYbtngU]

You're dating some scrubs I gotta say.

A) These days I don't see why it would be wrong for the people to split bills 50/50. The first couple of dates, the guy pays and thats cool. But after that, why should he always front the bill? Relationships should be about give and take and mutual reciprocation. If the chick guaruntees some dome after dinner, thats one thing. But who knows these days?

B) If you go to the strip club and can appreciate the hot strippers, and some guy finds something wrong with that, hes gotta have a few screws lose. Though I suppose if you were getting really into and serious and what not it might make a difference. But, if you're just chilling having a good time, what kind of dumbass would look down on that?
:goodjob:

I agree on both sections...

[Tech5]

lol:lmfao:
Beleive me, If a man wants to pay for you.. he will.. YOU CANT STOP HIM.. ( unless you bodyslam him to the ground)

I wouldn't waste my time..

That guy that said that.. really didnt want to be with you.. ..

Some guys are seriously scared of independent woman no a days.. to me, independent woman means more sexually frustrated woman out in the world.. due to not having enough time to get some good loving.. So when ever Im out and meet a girl as soon as they say "Im an independent woman".. I think "jackPot"

95% of the time they are not looking to settle down.. but just some serious pipe action...

[tippatone]

Contemplated it...But I couldnt do it...

My friends think I am gay already b/c I go to the strip club with my friends and enjoy the female body. So umm yeah....The guys I date have an issue with that too...lol

That because some of the dudes you date are not secure with themselves, i would jump at the chance to date someone who goes to the strip club, i know when i lay the pipe game down and treat her like she needs to be treated she will be back, so if you wanted to go to the nudie bar go right ahead, just bring home some of those pole tricks, hahaha

[Scrilla]

My friends think I am gay already b/c I go to the strip club with my friends and enjoy the female body. So umm yeah....The guys I date have an issue with that too...lol


If They Couldnt Afford To Take Care Of Dinner, What Makes You Think The Strip Club Is An Option? "Damn Baby, I Got One 10 Left. Wanna Split A Dance?" :thinking:


:lmfao:



2 Drink Minimum Means: Four Drink for 2 People... Not 1 Drink For 2 People!


:lmfao:

[Scrilla]

I wish i had the answer for you, if i did i would apply it to myself, i guess you just got to keep it moving and hope something good comes your way........ or become one of these bitter carpet-munching lesbians......j/k


:goodjob:

[SLOWLYbtngU]

If They Couldnt Afford To Take Care Of Dinner, What Makes You Think The Strip Club Is An Option? "Damn Baby, I Got One 10 Left. Wanna Split A Dance?" :thinking:


:lmfao:



2 Drink Minimum Means: Four Drink for 2 People... Not 1 Drink For 2 People!


:lmfao:
Lol... No get it right, It isnt "this is my last $10 lets split a dance," it's "lemme sit next to you and you can enjoy MY dance." :wtf: Can I get my own??? He will never be ale to go with us again....Ever :no:

[Slow Motion]

Damn, SLOWLY......What I can say to add on to what the other wise men have said is that in some instances a guy wants to feel needed and by him paying for things he gets that. You may not need to depend on him and can handle everything on your own, but when you just handle and pay for everything on your own thats where the whole why am i with you if you are so independent comes into play. Because some guys feel like you don't need them, and they don't know how to handle your emotional needs without handling your financial needs too in some way.

I was with a older woman and I had to learn how to deal with a woman that made a hell of a lot more money than me. And it was hard to really understand that she wanted me to be there for her emotionally. A lot of boys are taught including me that you have to grow up and take care of a wife/family etc. and to do that you have to be there financially. So when you become a man its hard to grasp why a women wouldn't let you do just that, and let him take over as provider.

I hope what i said makes sense, adds a different perspective, and help in some way.....

~fin~

[SLOWLYbtngU]

Damn, SLOWLY......What I can say to add on to what the other wise men have said is that in some instances a guy wants to feel needed and by him paying for things he gets that. You may not need to depend on him and can handle everything on your own, but when you just handle and pay for everything on your own thats where the whole why am i with you if you are so independent comes into play. Because some guys feel like you don't need them, and they don't know how to handle your emotional needs without handling your financial needs too in some way.

I was with a older woman and I had to learn how to deal with a woman that made a hell of a lot more money than me. And it was hard to really understand that she wanted me to be there for her emotionally. A lot of boys are taught including me that you have to grow up and take care of a wife/family etc. and to do that you have to be there financially. So when you become a man its hard to grasp why a women wouldn't let you do just that, and let him take over as provider.

I hope what i said makes sense, adds a different perspective, and help in some way.....

~fin~
I totally understand that it isnt easy for a man to grasp that a woman may not need him to provide for them financially I just dont understand why they feel they dont bring anything to the table. Like it just seems like they feel like I am using them and they are expendable to me. That isnt the case. If I dedicate any amount of time to ONE guy, it should be a given that I want more than their money. I have dated the guys that ask off the bat if I am only with them b/c of their money and I feel like that creates a form of competition within me. Like I have to prove that I dont want anything to do with their money, I just want them... I dunno. It just seems like I am destined to be a sugar mama.... :rolleyes:

[ironchef]

I totally understand that it isnt easy for a man to grasp that a woman may not need him to provide for them financially I just dont understand why they feel they dont bring anything to the table. Like it just seems like they feel like I am using them and they are expendable to me. That isnt the case. If I dedicate any amount of time to ONE guy, it should be a given that I want more than their money. I have dated the guys that ask off the bat if I am only with them b/c of their money and I feel like that creates a form of competition within me. Like I have to prove that I dont want anything to do with their money, I just want them... I dunno. It just seems like I am destined to be a sugar mama.... :rolleyes:Will you marry me? LOL j/k.

Seriously though, these days people should stop being so traditional and conservative you know. If a woman offered to pay, I wouldn't turn that down. Why? If theyre genuinely offering to pay, instead of that "make you feel bad for not paying" kind of way, why turn that down? Sigh dumbasses these days.

Thats not to say that if she offered to pay everytime I would let her.

[Slow Motion]

I totally understand that it isnt easy for a man to grasp that a woman may not need him to provide for them financially I just dont understand why they feel they dont bring anything to the table. Like it just seems like they feel like I am using them and they are expendable to me. That isnt the case. If I dedicate any amount of time to ONE guy, it should be a given that I want more than their money. I have dated the guys that ask off the bat if I am only with them b/c of their money and I feel like that creates a form of competition within me. Like I have to prove that I dont want anything to do with their money, I just want them... I dunno. It just seems like I am destined to be a sugar mama.... :rolleyes:

I doubt you are destined to be a sugar mama but I bet you do find someone that'll fit you and be what you need. It will happen, you seem too coo for it not to...:yes:

[tony]

You're dating some scrubs I gotta say.

A) These days I don't see why it would be wrong for the people to split bills 50/50. The first couple of dates, the guy pays and thats cool. But after that, why should he always front the bill? Relationships should be about give and take and mutual reciprocation. If the chick guaruntees some dome after dinner, thats one thing. But who knows these days?

B) If you go to the strip club and can appreciate the hot strippers, and some guy finds something wrong with that, hes gotta have a few screws lose. Though I suppose if you were getting really into and serious and what not it might make a difference. But, if you're just chilling having a good time, what kind of dumbass would look down on that?

This is more of a response to B than it is to A, I agree with the part I bolded. It really depends on where the man is in his life. If a guy is ready to settle down and have a serious relationship, typically he'd want someone that has matured past that level. Think about it.. (and this is no knock to the original poster) but do you really think a guy that has real goals in life wants to settle down with a woman that goes to strip clubs?

And vice versa, if a man hangs out in strip clubs can he really expect a good woman to take him seriously? Of course there are exceptions and if a guy is all about fun and want someone to hang out with every so often then cool.. do whatever you do but its hard to expect someone to take things seriously at that level.

On the paying thing, to each's own. I've had plenty of women want to pay for dinner but I grab the check anyway without hesitation. Works for some guys.. others like to be catered to.

[SLOWLYbtngU]

I dont take it as a knock, but I feel that when and if I find the one guy I want to be with... He will accept the fact that I go with my bestfriend to the strip club. Is there room for compromise? Sure. My issue isnt me going to the strip club... it's whether or not men have issues with women that pay for their own stuff without feeling like they are any less of a man.

[ironchef]

This is more of a response to B than it is to A, I agree with the part I bolded. It really depends on where the man is in his life. If a guy is ready to settle down and have a serious relationship, typically he'd want someone that has matured past that level. Think about it.. (and this is no knock to the original poster) but do you really think a guy that has real goals in life wants to settle down with a woman that goes to strip clubs?

And vice versa, if a man hangs out in strip clubs can he really expect a good woman to take him seriously? Of course there are exceptions and if a guy is all about fun and want someone to hang out with every so often then cool.. do whatever you do but its hard to expect someone to take things seriously at that level.

On the paying thing, to each's own. I've had plenty of women want to pay for dinner but I grab the check anyway without hesitation. Works for some guys.. others like to be catered to.Here's the thing though. The guy is ready to settle down, has goals, is fairly successful. The girl is much the same, their both very independent, but like spending time with each other, hence being a couple. Would it be wrong if they still went to the strip club? It could be more fun for them to do that, then to maybe go to a movie or something.

[BABY J]

I was asked today if I feel that the Women's movement hindered relationships in todays day and age and while my inner feminist wanted to say "HELL NO!" I think it has.



Ok --- as far as "the new rage" of independant women hindering relationships, I do not think that it has at all. Has it changed the dynamics of relationships though? YOU BET. I work in corporate America... no1 in my building makes less than 6 figures annually unless they are taking out the trash or fixing the printers - POWER men, and POWER women. If I go to the cafeteria to grab a drink, or pretty much anywhere near AT&T/NORTEL in Alpharetta --- I see herds of women at lunch sharing a table w/ no man in sight... and to add to that, they are not looking for one either. They truly have a "what can a man do for me that I haven't/can't do for myself other than D*CK ME DOWN" mentality. To ME, that's sexy. Do I think I have "arrived" to a point where I am so big that I can't date a chick getting her hustle on at McDonald's? No. But you better believe that I am more comfortable w/ some1 who has a CAREER and not a JOB (there is a difference) and some1 who can think for herself. Call it the new rage, but I think that independant women turn me on more than the opposite. In fact, I don't need my work example to even see this. I will use an everyday scenario: If I am driving down the street and I see a woman leaning on her car w/ a flat tire "waiting" for some bloak to help her w/ it, exhibiting the "woe is me" mentality... I'm inclined to drive RIGHT on by her w/out a second look. I need nothing more than to see her inaction to learn all I need to know about her personality. HOWEVER, if I drive by that same woman and she is attempting to get sh*t done, even if she has the jack on the wrong side of the car, upside down and doing ALL the sh*t wrong, I am more inclined to give her a hand. WHY? THIS woman knows that there is nothing free in this world... SHE understands that SHE needs to do SOMETHING, even if she is f*ckin it all up and doing it wrong. That's my kinda woman... I'm calling the office and tellin 'em I'm gonna be a few minutes late and to cancel my morning appointments.




I mean I started to think of the things that screw me over in a relationship and I have noticed that all the guys I date say the same thing that I am too prideful (because I pay for my own things when we go out.) My thing is that I do not want any man to feel that they HAVE to provide for me. I can do that by myself. All I ask for is the affection and loving care that comes along with the whole "couple" thing. I understand that for some men, the paying when we go out, is a part of the "loving care," but all I ask is for a guy to be there for me. Sure a friend can be there but the intimacy that comes with being WITH someone cannot be compared to friendship where certain lines don't (or shouldn't) get crossed.


But then!!! There are the guys that expect me to pay when we go out b/c I make more than them. They feel that they are entitled to it since I am the one that makes more...


Now here is an interesting tidbit. I usually can give 2 sh*ts about some1 else's opinion, however in life we are never as kool as we think we are, but never as bad as other people say we are as well. We are probably somewhere in the middle. But if 99% of the people you've dated say that you are too prideful, there is probably some truth to it. It's okay to relax and be catered to sometimes. No matter what you do for money, and no matter how much u make... you exchange WORK/EFFORT for money --- so when some1 wants to share that money w/ you, to turn your nose up at it is pretty insulting, and almost a disrespect ---> ESPECIALLY if there is a relationship behind it. Yeah --- some RANDOM retard tryna buy your affection deserves "i can pay for it myself"... but some1 who you have chosen as yours should be allowed to cater to you sometimes. Rather than turn it down, accept it - but the next time politely mention "hey, u paid last time... I got it thsi time baby" - it's quite simple. If a man expects you to pay --- that is a different energy altogether. I will help you out w/ this one. And I can only use my life as an example b/c it's what I know. The odds of me randomly meeting a woman that makes more than me AND turing that into a relationship is slim to none. I have accepted this. And if a woman is Jane Q. Public career-wise that's fine w/ me too... I will come outta the pocket, b/c in MY example I've always had more money than time - TIME is my most important assest, not money. If there is something I want that costs $100 + 3 hours of my TIME to get it, I'd pay $300 for it if some1 else used their 3 hours of time and delivered it to me. In my mind, "it's just money -- i'll go make more." W/ that said, the less money a woman has... the BETTER she has to be in other areas for me to feel like we are putting equal effort into the union. I'll date you if u work at McDonald's for $9/hr - but EVERY OTHER THING that woman is better compensate. She better gargle b4 she swallows, look like Halle w/ and a$$ like J-Lo - lol. WHen I look at her as a whole, she needs to compensate for her "lack" of a career w/ everything else... to include her personality. So -- if you make the most, you should not mind paying for a few more things IF that man is making u feel like more of a woman in all other aspects. He can fix his income over time... but you can't fix stupid. If he's a good man, then go for it.




My best advice is this:

Make yourself happy, thats the only way you can be happy with someone else.



Sounds selfish but its true. If you are going into a date or relationship trying to prove your independent your bringing alot of angst into the mix. You shouldnt have to prove yourself, it should just be known.

my .02

DING DING DING!!!! We have a winner!!! Doesn't sound selfish AT ALL!!! It's just like on a plane when they tell you to put YOUR oxygen mask on 1st b4 you try to help some1 else. How the f*CK can u help some1 else when you are dead? Same thing in a relationship --- HELP YOURSELF 1st, What the HELL can you do for any1 when you are not even happy yourself --- everything you touch relationship-wise will fail. You have to find that happiness from w/in 1st... otherwise you are inviting people into YOUR BS. +1 w/ that one Mike.


Hell --- I'd quote Julio, but as usual he's on the map --- nuff said.

[ironchef]

Check out Baby J spitting the heavy chevy haha.

[BABY J]

PS: as far as the strip club goes, I chose not to speak on it bc I don't know how "deep" it gets or how frequently you/him go. I tend to agree w/ Tony on the matter though... you lay down w/ dogs, don't be surprised when you stand up w/ fleas. I'm KING FREAK, but I don't need to be recognized by face when I walk into somebody's strip joint either. But then again, I'm more confortable w/ swinging w/ other couples than I am w/ the strip club - lol - or picking some porn up, poppin it in the DVD player w/ my lady... talkin' $100 worth if sh*t about how she about to GET IT, pop once and then falling asleep b4 round 2:rolleyes: ... LOL... so maybe I am not the person to ask. :D

[SLOWLYbtngU]

PS: as far as the strip club goes, I chose not to speak on it bc I don't know how "deep" it gets or how frequently you/him go. I tend to agree w/ Tony on the matter though... you lay down w/ dogs, don't be surprised when you stand up w/ fleas. I'm KING FREAK, but I don't need to be recognized by face when I walk into somebody's strip joint either. But then again, I'm more confortable w/ swinging w/ other couples than I am w/ the strip club - lol - or picking some porn up, poppin it in the DVD player w/ my lady... talkin' $100 worth if sh*t about how she about to GET IT, pop once and then falling asleep b4 round 2:rolleyes: ... LOL... so maybe I am not the person to ask. :D
sweet... new thread.

[SLOWLYbtngU]

Ok --- as far as "the new rage" of independant women hindering relationships, I do not think that it has at all. Has it changed the dynamics of relationships though? YOU BET. I work in corporate America... no1 in my building makes less than 6 figures annually unless they are taking out the trash or fixing the printers - POWER men, and POWER women. If I go to the cafeteria to grab a drink, or pretty much anywhere near AT&T/NORTEL in Alpharetta --- I see herds of women at lunch sharing a table w/ no man in sight... and to add to that, they are not looking for one either. They truly have a "what can a man do for me that I haven't/can't do for myself other than D*CK ME DOWN" mentality. To ME, that's sexy. Do I think I have "arrived" to a point where I am so big that I can't date a chick getting her hustle on at McDonald's? No. But you better believe that I am more comfortable w/ some1 who has a CAREER and not a JOB (there is a difference) and some1 who can think for herself. Call it the new rage, but I think that independant women turn me on more than the opposite. In fact, I don't need my work example to even see this. I will use an everyday scenario: If I am driving down the street and I see a woman leaning on her car w/ a flat tire "waiting" for some bloak to help her w/ it, exhibiting the "woe is me" mentality... I'm inclined to drive RIGHT on by her w/out a second look. I need nothing more than to see her inaction to learn all I need to know about her personality. HOWEVER, if I drive by that same woman and she is attempting to get sh*t done, even if she has the jack on the wrong side of the car, upside down and doing ALL the sh*t wrong, I am more inclined to give her a hand. WHY? THIS woman knows that there is nothing free in this world... SHE understands that SHE needs to do SOMETHING, even if she is f*ckin it all up and doing it wrong. That's my kinda woman... I'm calling the office and tellin 'em I'm gonna be a few minutes late and to cancel my morning appointments.

See!! That is the thing! I want someone that appreciates that I don't wait for help, because I know that in this world, everyone is out for themselves. Unfortunately, what I get stuck with is the guys that feel threatened when I say that I can do something by myself. I mean I have been a b*tch a time or two to these types because I just dont understand why someone would want the female that refuses to do for herself... I had a guy tell me once that women shouldnt be into the car scene, they should be the ones bringing lemonade to the guys while they work on cars...I remember when he told me that if I ever need an oil change he could do it for me and I remember laughing in his face and saying, "That's cute, that is really cute. I help with motor swaps and you want to change my oil. Aww, that's sweet." I never spoke to him again. I want the guy that I can be working on my car and getting dirty and he is RIGHT there with me, and if I do something wrong then maybe he can provide me with assistance or we can search for the answer together.


Now here is an interesting tidbit. I usually can give 2 sh*ts about some1 else's opinion, however in life we are never as kool as we think we are, but never as bad as other people say we are as well. We are probably somewhere in the middle. But if 99% of the people you've dated say that you are too prideful, there is probably some truth to it. It's okay to relax and be catered to sometimes. No matter what you do for money, and no matter how much u make... you exchange WORK/EFFORT for money --- so when some1 wants to share that money w/ you, to turn your nose up at it is pretty insulting, and almost a disrespect ---> ESPECIALLY if there is a relationship behind it. Yeah --- some RANDOM retard tryna buy your affection deserves "i can pay for it myself"... but some1 who you have chosen as yours should be allowed to cater to you sometimes. Rather than turn it down, accept it - but the next time politely mention "hey, u paid last time... I got it thsi time baby" - it's quite simple. If a man expects you to pay --- that is a different energy altogether. I will help you out w/ this one. And I can only use my life as an example b/c it's what I know. The odds of me randomly meeting a woman that makes more than me AND turing that into a relationship is slim to none. I have accepted this. And if a woman is Jane Q. Public career-wise that's fine w/ me too... I will come outta the pocket, b/c in MY example I've always had more money than time - TIME is my most important assest, not money. If there is something I want that costs $100 + 3 hours of my TIME to get it, I'd pay $300 for it if some1 else used their 3 hours of time and delivered it to me. In my mind, "it's just money -- i'll go make more." W/ that said, the less money a woman has... the BETTER she has to be in other areas for me to feel like we are putting equal effort into the union. I'll date you if u work at McDonald's for $9/hr - but EVERY OTHER THING that woman is better compensate. She better gargle b4 she swallows, look like Halle w/ and a$$ like J-Lo - lol. WHen I look at her as a whole, she needs to compensate for her "lack" of a career w/ everything else... to include her personality. So -- if you make the most, you should not mind paying for a few more things IF that man is making u feel like more of a woman in all other aspects. He can fix his income over time... but you can't fix stupid. If he's a good man, then go for it.

The number isnt exactly 99% but it was the one person that i happened to have cared about the most recently. It hurt to hear that they thought I was prideful, when really all I wanted to convey was that I dont want their money. All I wanted was some of their time. Like you said money is something that people work for and can always earn more of, where as the time that they spend with me either has no compensation or does...but hearing that I am prideful, because I wanted to show that I can pull my own weight...Sucked. And this guy made considerably more money than me...Considerably.


DING DING DING!!!! We have a winner!!! Doesn't sound selfish AT ALL!!! It's just like on a plane when they tell you to put YOUR oxygen mask on 1st b4 you try to help some1 else. How the f*CK can u help some1 else when you are dead? Same thing in a relationship --- HELP YOURSELF 1st, What the HELL can you do for any1 when you are not even happy yourself --- everything you touch relationship-wise will fail. You have to find that happiness from w/in 1st... otherwise you are inviting people into YOUR BS. +1 w/ that one Mike.


Hell --- I'd quote Julio, but as usual he's on the map --- nuff said.

Yeah I told one of my friends the other day that this is the happiest I have ever been in my life... I have a blossoming career, a great social network, wonderful squad members that are like family when my own family lets me down. I am blessed and doing it by myself. I guess I just need to find that one guy that can appreciate me as a whole. Whether I pay or not. :ninja:

[Sammich]

OFF THE TOP: i expect to pay at least 99% of the times. if she wants to pay everyonce in 2blue moons thats fine, but other than that...i'm the one that does the bulk of purchasing. i dont mind a woman that feels that she needs to do her own thing, my wife is on the border line. she relies on me, but doesnt know how to ask me (sounds crazy). but she's like me, doesnt like to ask for help. but she's better than me that when i do just give her money out of the blue..she'll accept more readily than me. i dont mind an independent woman...but a girl like u jose...i'd make u put ur money back in ur wallet, point blank

[SLOWLYbtngU]

OFF THE TOP: i expect to pay at least 99% of the times. if she wants to pay everyonce in 2blue moons thats fine, but other than that...i'm the one that does the bulk of purchasing. i dont mind a woman that feels that she needs to do her own thing, my wife is on the border line. she relies on me, but doesnt know how to ask me (sounds crazy). but she's like me, doesnt like to ask for help. but she's better than me that when i do just give her money out of the blue..she'll accept more readily than me. i dont mind an independent woman...but a girl like u jose...i'd make u put ur money back in ur wallet, point blank
I will take that as a compliment. Thank you. I think that I have jsut come to the conclusion that I will try to feel a guy out before we go out and let him know ahead of time that I dont mind paying my way if he is comfortable with that. Honestly, that is all I want. I want the guy to be comfortable enough around me that we can eventually grow into something more and I cant expect that to happen if I am always throwing out the fact that I can make it on my own. B/c seriously, why would someone want to be with anyone that basically makes it seem (even if it is unwillingly) like they dont need them in their life.

[Sammich]

EGG FUCCKIN ZACTLY...wifey acts like that sometimes and i gota put her in her place. she mentioned wanting another job b/c she's tired of going without money...but she never asked me for money or said that she was w/o money. like i told her, if its my last and i have to go w/o, i'd give u my last, point blank. its my duty to make sure u have and u gettin another job without even giving me a chance to rectify the situation is crazy....so i rectified that situation and hopefully i wnt have to worry about her talking crazy of getting a job when i can supply.

[SLOWLYbtngU]

I am not going to lie...I rather dig my own grave and bury myself before I ask for money from anyone. Like when I owe people...Omg... I HAVE to pay them off... I just don't feel right.

[Sammich]

i dont want or expect my wife to pay me back unless she SPECIFICALLY ask to borrow money for something i have absolutely no care for...and that hasnt happened yet. all the times i give her money...its hers, period. her money is mine, and mine is hers/hers is hers.

[IP37]

heh i won't date a girl that won't do anything for herself.

if she can't do anything with herself, what the hell am i supposed to do with her?

not to say that i expect a girl to pay for my **** or buy me crap or anything like that, but if she can afford to / wants to.. woot.

i don't keep track of who pays for what / who buys who what. who cares?

lol i'm probably off topic here. i was too lazy to read the whole first post

[SLOWLYbtngU]

i dont want or expect my wife to pay me back unless she SPECIFICALLY ask to borrow money for something i have absolutely no care for...and that hasnt happened yet. all the times i give her money...its hers, period. her money is mine, and mine is hers/hers is hers.
I think the dynamics change a bit when you're married. My issue is with the guys that I date... My last "boyfriend/fiance" was in 2005... There are a ton of issues that guys tell me that I have as to the reasons why it never works out...This is one of them.

[SLOWLYbtngU]

heh i won't date a girl that won't do anything for herself.

if she can't do anything with herself, what the hell am i supposed to do with her?

not to say that i expect a girl to pay for my **** or buy me crap or anything like that, but if she can afford to / wants to.. woot.

i don't keep track of who pays for what / who buys who what. who cares?

lol i'm probably off topic here. i was too lazy to read the whole first post
Nah you were on topic. I think that everyone should date people that take care of themselves or at least can afford to. Otherwise I just feel like it's babysitting or parenting.

[Sammich]

I think the dynamics change a bit when you're married. My issue is with the guys that I date... My last "boyfriend/fiance" was in 2005... There are a ton of issues that guys tell me that I have as to the reasons why it never works out...This is one of them.

to me it was the same even when we were dating...i didnt care. but some people are different in their thinking while dating, but that was my perspective on it

[SLOWLYbtngU]

to me it was the same even when we were dating...i didnt care. but some people are different in their thinking while dating, but that was my perspective on it
Gotcha... See I think that when you are married, you become one. There isnt(or at least shouldnt be) a fight for balance of power. When I am in love, like real real love... I am very submissive within reasonable means, but I think that is just a natural response when you find someone that you want in your life, you know, to leave your wants behind and attend to theirs...

[Sammich]

yea i mean..thats how it is when you feel that way

[IP37]

Nah you were on topic. I think that everyone should date people that take care of themselves or at least can afford to. Otherwise I just feel like it's babysitting or parenting.

exactly

[LQQKITZME]

If a man lets you pay for your **** when out on a date.. he is 100% lame.. I dont give a ****..


That should tell you right there... LAST DATE.. aparently you are messing with the wrong crouwd.

very true...

[Lizbiz101]

IMO that song represents how some men do not know when to grow up. We have men that are 35 years old still living at home. They want a independent woman with her own car, her own house so that she can take care of him. Some men just want another mom. Men should want to take care of their woman, not the other way around.

[LQQKITZME]

Gotcha... See I think that when you are married, you become one. There isnt(or at least shouldnt be) a fight for balance of power. When I am in love, like real real love... I am very submissive within reasonable means, but I think that is just a natural response when you find someone that you want in your life, you know, to leave your wants behind and attend to theirs...


I wish all women thought like that..

[LQQKITZME]

Gotcha... See I think that when you are married, you become one. There isnt(or at least shouldnt be) a fight for balance of power. When I am in love, like real real love... I am very submissive within reasonable means, but I think that is just a natural response when you find someone that you want in your life, you know, to leave your wants behind and attend to theirs...


I think it has hurt relationships. I was married to a great woman, but there was always a power struggle. And that ultimately ended the relationship. I don't want a mother, I want a wife. I mean a guy wants to feel like he is the head of the household. Not very many men want to feel like they have very little say so or input into the relationship. As a man you are brought up to be the head of the house.. Not owner of that person but not their slave either. As a man it made me feel worthless, even affected my libido. :(

I still love this woman and miss her terribly


I might be a little off topic as well but.. just felt like venting

[Sammich]

IMO that song represents how some men do not know when to grow up. We have men that are 35 years old still living at home. They want a independent woman with her own car, her own house so that she can take care of him. Some men just want another mom. Men should want to take care of their woman, not the other way around.

does this mean that the woman not take care of the man in some kind of way? and no i'm not speaking sexually. i got what i wanted, a woman that can handle things if a situation happens that she can give some kind of insight and monetary help when i can't. no i dont want her to take care of me full fledge if you will, but i definitely want her to be some kind of support to me, and it dont have to be monetary....

seems like what i'm saying is going 50 million different ways..but hopefully somebody can understand what i'm trying to say

[Sammich]

AMEN SISTA!!! Could not have said it better myself. Once things get more serious or they marry, it can be a problem if he is not contributing financially. There can be a power struggle over the finances. His low self esteem and feelings of inadequacy may get the better of him and the relationship, causing problems in other areas...

I can take care of myself, but that doesn't mean I want to be on top all the time, lol!!

thats ok...i can still handle business up here lol

sorry couldnt resist..back on topic:D

[Sammich]

:D

[8AFORD]

if a woman can be independent then thats great but i have always like buying something a nice ... at the flea market. haha\ but i think hot head woman are annoying but if u wanna pay for yourself gohead

[SLOWLYbtngU]

IMO that song represents how some men do not know when to grow up. We have men that are 35 years old still living at home. They want a independent woman with her own car, her own house so that she can take care of him. Some men just want another mom. Men should want to take care of their woman, not the other way around.

I only used the song to introduce my question... My issue is with, I guess, the men that DONT want another mom. They are trying to take care of me, but I dont let them cuz I am so worried about feeling like I owe them something.


I think it has hurt relationships. I was married to a great woman, but there was always a power struggle. And that ultimately ended the relationship. I don't want a mother, I want a wife. I mean a guy wants to feel like he is the head of the household. Not very many men want to feel like they have very little say so or input into the relationship. As a man you are brought up to be the head of the house.. Not owner of that person but not their slave either. As a man it made me feel worthless, even affected my libido. :(

I still love this woman and miss her terribly


I might be a little off topic as well but.. just felt like venting

Nah you're not off topic. Like I said I wanted opinions and different view points. As I stated prevfiously though, I think that marriage is a whole different thing all together. I feel that by the time that marriage is considered both parties should know what role they play and do so accordingly. No, it wont be perfect but by this time you should have an idea of what works and what doesnt work from the courtship stage.


AMEN SISTA!!! Could not have said it better myself. Once things get more serious or they marry, it can be a problem if he is not contributing financially. There can be a power struggle over the finances. His low self esteem and feelings of inadequacy may get the better of him and the relationship, causing problems in other areas...

I can take care of myself, but that doesn't mean I want to be on top all the time, lol!!

But see why let it even get that far if there is going to be an issue about money? If I marry it will be for love. I have dated plenty of men that dont make as much as I do... I have dated a couple that make more. When I date people, the last thing on my mind is, "Can he provide for me?" Probably because I am worrying about whether or not we will click enough to continue dating. Of course over time you will find out who makes what and you will also notice who is the one that pays all the time and can tell if it is expected.

OFFTOPIC A LIL BIT:::
I dated one guy that had no job and would always come over my apt right in time for me to cook dinner. He knew that I would make enough for us to eat, but after a while I noticed that because I was giving him gas money, I was feeding him, he didnt have to do a damn thing and that didnt fly for me. I need someone by my side that is as ambitious and driven as me. We gotta go places and I dont want to drag you there...


if a woman can be independent then thats great but i have always like buying something a nice ... at the flea market. haha\ but i think hot head woman are annoying but if u wanna pay for yourself gohead

I can and have been a hot headed woman... You're right, it is probably annoying, but I dont get to that point for no reason.

[Dirty Octopus™]

I should have known it was you that made this thread too but the thread title still sorta threw me off.

Anywho...

I do have some what of an issue with the whole Women's "Independent" movement. Some women especially black women take it to a whole other level. Do not get me wrong, it is perfectly fine to be independent in most aspects but do not shun a man when he tries to approach you because he appears not to be up to par with you. I know this not a characteristic that you have but that's for the women that me and you have talked about countless of times.

As far as you're concerned don't stop a man from paying for you if you're out with him. It's not a matter him needing anything in return or him feeling obligated to, it's because that should be an instinct any real man has. Since it's in us to do so when you take that away from us it sort hurts our pride. Unless it's something discussed before the outing

Me for example. I knew good and well that Jovan made substantially more than me. But everywhere we went I paid. There was no argument I never asked her to pay for anything because I felt inclined to.

When I met my wife she was very much so on her own. She did for herself and that was fine in the beginning because she did for herself but when it came to me doing for her she NEVER stopped me. Sure she was reluctant to from time to time but she saw how firm I was and went along with things. Her and I have always been about compromise. and i think i'm rambling.

i was about to delete all of this but i figured i'd let you read it before i did :doh:

[SLOWLYbtngU]

I should have known it was you that made this thread too but the thread title still sorta threw me off.

Anywho...

I do have some what of an issue with the whole Women's "Independent" movement. Some women especially black women take it to a whole other level. Do not get me wrong, it is perfectly fine to be independent in most aspects but do not shun a man when he tries to approach you because he appears not to be up to par with you. I know this not a characteristic that you have but that's for the women that me and you have talked about countless of times.

As far as you're concerned don't stop a man from paying for you if you're out with him. It's not a matter him needing anything in return or him feeling obligated to, it's because that should be an instinct any real man has. Since it's in us to do so when you take that away from us it sort hurts our pride. Unless it's something discussed before the outing

Me for example. I knew good and well that Jovan made substantially more than me. But everywhere we went I paid. There was no argument I never asked her to pay for anything because I felt inclined to.

When I met my wife she was very much so on her own. She did for herself and that was fine in the beginning because she did for herself but when it came to me doing for her she NEVER stopped me. Sure she was reluctant to from time to time but she saw how firm I was and went along with things. Her and I have always been about compromise. and i think i'm rambling.

i was about to delete all of this but i figured i'd let you read it before i did :doh:


Ok, I quoted so go ahead and delete. I gotta pay attention in training...but I will be back.. Oh I have another thread in here... Your Girl's in the Strip Club...YEs Or No...Go give your opinion.

[SLOWLYbtngU]

I should have known it was you that made this thread too but the thread title still sorta threw me off.

Anywho...

I do have some what of an issue with the whole Women's "Independent" movement. Some women especially black women take it to a whole other level. Do not get me wrong, it is perfectly fine to be independent in most aspects but do not shun a man when he tries to approach you because he appears not to be up to par with you. I know this not a characteristic that you have but that's for the women that me and you have talked about countless of times.

As far as you're concerned don't stop a man from paying for you if you're out with him. It's not a matter him needing anything in return or him feeling obligated to, it's because that should be an instinct any real man has. Since it's in us to do so when you take that away from us it sort hurts our pride. Unless it's something discussed before the outing

Me for example. I knew good and well that Jovan made substantially more than me. But everywhere we went I paid. There was no argument I never asked her to pay for anything because I felt inclined to.

When I met my wife she was very much so on her own. She did for herself and that was fine in the beginning because she did for herself but when it came to me doing for her she NEVER stopped me. Sure she was reluctant to from time to time but she saw how firm I was and went along with things. Her and I have always been about compromise. and i think i'm rambling.

i was about to delete all of this but i figured i'd let you read it before i did :doh:


I know that you havetold me a thousand times to let the man BE the man. I have issues... you know that. C'mon dude, you have been a witness to 12yrs of my life.. You have seen me morph from all sorts of different characters. I went from super b*tch, to super submissive, to the friend that you now love. I was in an abusive ass realtionship for 5yrs of my life where a slap to the face was my pay back for running off at the mouth. I DID NOT KNOW what a lady should have been treated like. I didnt. You watched me go from guy to guy after that, looking for instant gratification... Then you watched me fall recently, only to be hurt over and over (some caused by me, some caused by them). I think to an extent, I pay for myself because that way when I am done dealing with a person I dont feel that I owe them their money back. I dunno. Maybe I am wrong in my thinking.

[Sammich]

definitely wrong in your thinking..if that idiot 'thinks' you owe them even after ya'll are 'done' then he's a jerk..

[SLOWLYbtngU]

definitely wrong in your thinking..if that idiot 'thinks' you owe them even after ya'll are 'done' then he's a jerk..
Nah, I just feel more like, "I am sorry I wasted their time."

:dunno:

[Sammich]

what in the world are YOU sorry for?

[SLOWLYbtngU]

what in the world are YOU sorry for?
Dude, everytime I date someone and it fails...I feel like I wasted time and since i cant give that back, I would rather give them the money that they spent back... Yeeaahh uhh, typing that made me feel retarded.

[Sammich]

lol u are my friend (maybe e-friend) however you wana look at it, but yea...that is quite a 'retarded' statement...u have no reason to feel u wasted their time..no offense but i think that abusive relationship still weighs on your mind..HEAVILY

[Lizbiz101]

Dude, everytime I date someone and it fails...I feel like I wasted time and since i cant give that back, I would rather give them the money that they spent back... Yeeaahh uhh, typing that made me feel retarded.If every time you date someone and it fails then your not suppose to be with that person. It's not ment to work. So don't feel bad. You did not waste any time you, learned something. You take something from each relationship always. Don't feel bad for them, they left a strong beautiful woman and I know for a fact that you come across their minds, no matter what happened. I HATE one of my ex's but for some reason he pops in my mind from time to time.

[SLOWLYbtngU]

lol u are my friend (maybe e-friend) however you wana look at it, but yea...that is quite a 'retarded' statement...u have no reason to feel u wasted their time..no offense but i think that abusive relationship still weighs on your mind..HEAVILY
You sir, have a point and I dont think that I will be okay after that and it sucks because some guys dont deserve the treatment I give them. :(

[Sammich]

yea sometimes i catch the same kind of treatment from the wife because of the abusive relationships (mental and physical) she's been in. i hate to bring it up to her, cuz i know it does nothing but bring back bad memories..so i refrain...but sometimes you gota work around what has happened to you and learn to live with it. hopefully i didnt come across...ignorant

[ahmonrah]

ah....i missed too much of this conversation to be able to interject.....

[SLOWLYbtngU]

yea sometimes i catch the same kind of treatment from the wife because of the abusive relationships (mental and physical) she's been in. i hate to bring it up to her, cuz i know it does nothing but bring back bad memories..so i refrain...but sometimes you gota work around what has happened to you and learn to live with it. hopefully i didnt come across...ignorant
Not at all. I understand exactly what you are saying. I think that from a personal aspect I go in expecting every guy to f*ck up and when he does it is more of a "I knew it. Now do I want to stay and work it out??" You feel me? I dunno...Oh well this strayed a bit.

[SLOWLYbtngU]

ah....i missed too much of this conversation to be able to interject.....
Always room for more input. You always give me great advice.

[Sammich]

Not at all. I understand exactly what you are saying. I think that from a personal aspect I go in expecting every guy to f*ck up and when he does it is more of a "I knew it. Now do I want to stay and work it out??" You feel me? I dunno...Oh well this strayed a bit.
i feel u 100%...cuz thats how the wifey was..now she's to the aspect of where in an argument..she'll go to the far end to say 'shes done with it' so to speak and not wana talk about it.

truthfully..i think a bulk of our problems (not trying to throw it off on something else, mind you) come from her past and not wanting to REALLY let it go. it affects her alot, and sometimes its hard to deal with i admit, but her family, her moms at least is on to not let things go and to hold on to it. til this day the wifey is always wondering what people think, and quick to jump the gun...all stems from the abuse, i know