New Pump Gas Record Evo - 583 whp/430 ft lbs

[darkstar6069]

For those of you that don't get on evolutionm.net here it is. He is running the HTA35r from Buschur. Peter's previous record was 547whp/398 ft lbs.

583 whp/430 ft lbs
20 psi was reached at 4727 rpm
Peak boost was 30.90 psi
Boost at 8,000 rpm was 30.02
Average AFR's were 11.4:1
Air intake temps:57.20 degrees

So Peter's car gained 36 whp and 32 ft lbs of torque.

A side note to this. The timing curve was NOT CHANGED AT ALL. The timing curve stayed exactly the same through all the testing. Knock counts in the mid range actually dropped just a little because the peak torque now is happening a little later than with the stock ported intake.

Very impressive gains. Very impressive pump gas numbers. Peter's car weighs 2620 with no driver. This is easily a 9 second pump gas daily driver.

Also note, this is on BP93 octane that was bought on the way here. NO ALCOHOL.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v224/jrod@buschur/PeteR.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b268/dustylax/Picture002.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b268/dustylax/Picture008.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b268/dustylax/Picture011.jpg

[EmminoDaGreat]

Air intake temps:57.20 degrees

i call bull**** on no "adders"

[On_Her_Face]

that car looks sick though

[Tracy]

I think my evo made 670 on pump and methanol. I wonder what it made on pump if that is the record.

I always wanted a white Evo instead of silver :(

[Nick Jeezy]

that thing is nice. i wish i had one.

[c_riley]

that thing is nice as hell. congrats on the record.

[Batlground]

Air intake temps:57.20 degrees

i call bull**** on no "adders"
+1

thats pure marketing bull s h i t

30psi, on pump gas, go for it, let me know how many pieces of piston you pull from the oil pan :D

[Batlground]

a 35R isnt big enough to make 550whp on pump gas, not on a 2.0.

MAYBE a Supra.

If this is some 2.3L stroker motor with higher compression, etc, MAYBE id believe that

[darkstar6069]

Yeah it's just a built 2.0L from buschur

[Sol-Badguy]

Black doors in one picture? I'll pass.

I still don't believe the 30psi on pump..

[J-ROCK]

car does look sick!

[darkstar6069]

Black doors in one picture? I'll pass.

I still don't believe the 30psi on pump..
I agree, but here's a vid where the car supposedly made 615 on pump gas. I'm confused on how its possible to make that much power on pump gas without meth/alcohol without detonation.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=muC_1V-Vvn8

[Dracc]

hmmm... interesting if i do say so myself

[keevo54]

+1

thats pure marketing bull s h i t

30psi, on pump gas, go for it, let me know how many pieces of piston you pull from the oil pan :D
:blah:

Good tuning

[AnclyT]

that evo looks dope!

[Batlground]

:blah:

Good tuning
LOL

How many 600whp cars have you tuned? I dont care if GOD himself descended from the heavens to tune this evo, you cant CHANGE THE LAW OF PHYSICS.

PHYSICS > THE ALMIGHTY

The turbo is NOT a 35R, and the numbers are bogus. At least on 93 octane in my personal opinion. I think something is being left out

[Ronsam2006]

I know, whats up with the doors on pics 1 and 3?

[darkstar6069]

I know, whats up with the doors on pics 1 and 3?
haha I just noticed that. I guess that's as they were installing them? I dunno :thinking:

[stuntman]

Thanks for adding my find paul lol! I think it is possible with great tuning! Come on now you should all know buschur is a genius!! The Buschur Bad Bish machine did drive from Long Island to OH back to LI then over to CT back to LI and then back to CT to race and it was ready in race form and won the races due to the Sharkbite2000's car not being ready to race also pete drove the car every were he went to get tuned and race at. I think gas mpg was 33 traveling at the speed of 70-80mph. It has numerous videos of the guy dynoing his car at Dyno Flash here is the thread for more reference !!http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=326280 :goodjob:
-Aubrey

[darkstar6069]

I found this wtf are you talking about lol jk

[TallGuy]

nice

[stuntman]

come on paul you must not know the power of buschur :boobies: R u doubting?
-Aubrey

[stuntman]

Also the record is 618whp bro!
-Aubrey

[darkstar6069]

Yeah well they said 583 at first. And no I'm not doubting the power of buschur... well kinda but I dont know. I just don't see how his motor doesn't detonate.

[Batlground]

Again, all you saying with GREAT TUNING it makes these numbers DONT KNOW HOW TO TUNE A CAR OR UNDERSTAND HOW TO TUNE A CAR.

YOU CANNOT RUN 30psi ON PUMP GAS.

Ok, you can, but you would have to run a,most NO TIMING, which means 1 of 2 things happen

1) THe car has EGTs higher than the sun(detonation)
2) IT WONT MAKE ANY POWER WITH NO TIMING

anything over the threshhold of 22psi on PUMP GAS is detonation, PERIOD.

YOU CANNOT RUN A CAR AT 30PSI on a 2.0 or 2.1 L with a 42R and make that kinda power ON PUMP GAS LET ALONE A 35R as they claim.

ITS NO POSSIBLE, PERIOD.

Maybe its his race car an he replaces the motor ever weekend, then i buy that.

Furthermore, Bushurs done good things, but that doesnt allow him to bend the LAWS OF PHYSICS.

[Axix23]

wow, thats 1 sick-ass evo...

[DESTRO_91]

Damn! Those are crazy numbers. Ill azz ride, man.

[stuntman]

hahahaha buschur ftw +1! :goodjob:
-Aubrey

[MIKE.P]

here is the vid

http://youtube.com/watch?v=muC_1V-Vvn8

[Krappy]

uhh whats wrong with the doors? they're just CF...

[Ronsam2006]

uhh whats wrong with the doors? they're just CF...
Nothing is wrong with the doors, its just that in pic 1, the doors are white, then in pic 3, the doors are CF. If you watched the interview, he says it took him like three or six hours to put all the doors on. IDK...

[David Buschu]

Hi guys,

I saw a link to this thread as it seems there are some doubters;)

This car is bad ass, no doubt. 2660 pounds without driver and did put down 580 whp on our Mustang Dyno on STRAIGHT 93 octane, nothing else. The car was driven with that exact tune in it (this is his street tune) from our shop in Wakeman, Ohio back to New Jersey, 7 hours. The car also knocked out 33 mpg cruising at 68 mph on the way back.

He got back and saw another video on the internet of another car that put down 435 on pump gas on ISC's Dynojet. He wanted to get a Dynojet number anyway so he drove over there and dyno his car. BTW, his name is Peter Rucano. Anyway, once again with no changes he drove 2 hours to CT and put the car on the Dynojet on nothing but 93 octane. 612, 615 and 617.8 whp, 3 dyno pulls in a row. There is a video posted and another of his going out for a street race with the car filling it up at a local station with 93 on the way there.

It is VERY possible to run 30 psi on pump gas, actually it really isn't even difficult to be honest. My brothers car is running 33 psi and is on a very small turbo which makes it more difficult.

I'm actually surprised how many people find it so hard to believe. It's all about the parts combination and tuning, if you have that right..........no problems.

Anyone claiming its "going to blow up" is incorrect. This particular car has been running around for about year now, previously it made 540 on 93 octane. The change of the intake manifold a week or so ago allowed us to get it to the 580 on the same 93 octane.

Have a good day.

David Buschur
President
Buschur Racing, Inc.

[mad JDM]

If thats the case, my EVO, which hits 24 psi on straight 93 must be detonating and knocking like a mofo, even if the datalogs off of evoscan say that my tune is perfectly fine. lol

As a matter of fact, the new evo X which hits 24 psi stock, even with crap ass 91 octane on the west coast must be ready to blow up.

[Vteckidd]

So what makes this EVO motor different than any other internal combustion engine?

I mean, enlighten us all as to why this evo can run 30psi on 93 octane and make gobs of power when 99% of the TUNERs in the world will tell you its NOT POSSIBLE.

How can you keep 68 degree intake air temps with 93 OCTANE and 30 PSI OF BOOST?

Please, tell me what i have been doing wrong the last 6 years

[Vteckidd]

If thats the case, my EVO, which hits 24 psi on straight 93 must be detonating and knocking like a mofo, even if the datalogs off of evoscan say that my tune is perfectly fine. lol

As a matter of fact, the new evo X which hits 24 psi stock, even with crap ass 91 octane on the west coast must be ready to blow up.
22psi on a stock turbo is not the same as 30-33psi on a 35R

[David Buschu]

I don't want to start an arguement but I am sure this will.

First it seems as though you may be doing quite a few things wrong as it seems some of your statements are off by quite a bit.

First, 68 degree intake air temps have nothing to do with the octane or tuning. It's the intercooler that regulates the intake air temps. The car has our LARGE Race FMIC on it. Next, you are correct in what you said, "22psi on a stock turbo is not the same as 30-33psi on a 35R" but not in the way you meant it. Running 30 psi on a GT35r is MUCH easier to do than trying to run high boost on a stock turbo. The larger the turbine wheel the easier it is to run high boost on low octane and the GT35r compressor wheel is much more efficient than a stock turbo pushing 22 psi, this means the turbo outlet temps are cooler with a larger more efficient compressor wheel too, making it easier to run high boost on pump gas.

I would gladly open our shop to anyone who doubts this is possible. We could make a video out of it. I'll drain the tank, fill it with 93, let everyone look the car over for hidden alky or other fuel and then dyno it and show it's possible. Nothing to it.

I only wish I knew 2 years ago what I know now about all this. When we ran the Car and Driver Super Four Challenge I'd have LOVED to had this knowledge. We'd have destroyed the entire field by seconds rather than finishing 3rd overall.

Also, whoever said the new EVOX runs 24 psi from the factory, you are correct. It's very close to that. We just picked one up and are modifying it now, I was shocked to see 23.5 psi come up on a stock car. Very impressive indeed.

David Buschur

[David Buschu]

One more thing, the EVO is different than every other internal combustion engine but is different that most. I would think that running 30 psi on a Supra engine would be pretty easy too. I've never pushed one that hard, I have tuned a few. I know the last one I did 22-23 psi was easy and that's all the owner wanted. Looking at the map and logs from it now I don't see a reason why that Supra couldn't have run 30 psi on 93-94 octane fuel.

David Buschur

[Vteckidd]

One more thing, the EVO is different than every other internal combustion engine but is different that most. I would think that running 30 psi on a Supra engine would be pretty easy too. I've never pushed one that hard, I have tuned a few. I know the last one I did 22-23 psi was easy and that's all the owner wanted. Looking at the map and logs from it now I don't see a reason why that Supra couldn't have run 30 psi on 93-94 octane fuel.

David Buschur
I posted on Evo M

I dont mean to dog YOU out, and im not. Im not doign a personal attack or anything like that.

Im merely saying i dont see how its possible.

30PSI on pump gas is , well, insane

[mad JDM]

22psi on a stock turbo is not the same as 30-33psi on a 35R

I was gonna respond, but Dave Buschur did it for me.

Thanks Dave. If ever I am ready to go balls out with my EVO 9, Ill definitely be taking a drive to Ohio!

[WickedIXMR]

One more thing, the EVO is different than every other internal combustion engine but is different that most. I would think that running 30 psi on a Supra engine would be pretty easy too. I've never pushed one that hard, I have tuned a few. I know the last one I did 22-23 psi was easy and that's all the owner wanted. Looking at the map and logs from it now I don't see a reason why that Supra couldn't have run 30 psi on 93-94 octane fuel.

David Buschur
Dave you are the fu.cking man! Im actually saving up so I can make the drive up there and get a built shortblock from you guys. Cant wait to make the trip out there hopefully it will be soon. One of my buddies Nick mentioned many many good things about you so I already know whos building my evo. :goodjob:

[MongolPup]

****, call out the AMS guys next so we can have more of the best American Evo builders/tuners on here.

[Big Baller]

Oh thank god theres another magical tuner that can do things that everyone else can't...

I'm so tire of hearing about **** like this. How about I drive this car at the next time attack on 93 octane and we can see how well it holds up.

[Batlground]

Baller to the rescue

[Batlground]

I don't want to start an arguement but I am sure this will.


First, 68 degree intake air temps have nothing to do with the octane or tuning. It's the intercooler that regulates the intake air temps. The car has our LARGE Race FMIC on it.

I will disagree, i dont see how you can see sub 70 degree intake air temperature on a car on NORMAL OCTANE FUEL ALONE with 30PSI making 600whp. Even if your intercooler is that much better than a Garrett or Spearco, it doesnt mean you can keep INTAKE TEMPERATURE that cool. I mean, typical IATs on cars with that power level are between 100-120




Next, you are correct in what you said, "22psi on a stock turbo is not the same as 30-33psi on a 35R" but not in the way you meant it. Running 30 psi on a GT35r is MUCH easier to do than trying to run high boost on a stock turbo. The larger the turbine wheel the easier it is to run high boost on low octane and the GT35r compressor wheel is much more efficient than a stock turbo pushing 22 psi, this means the turbo outlet temps are cooler with a larger more efficient compressor wheel too, making it easier to run high boost on pump gas.


David Buschur

Thats like saying its easier to run high compression on an NA motor because the engine breathes better. So i can run 16:1 compression on the street as long as my engine is efficient enough :thinking:

So you are saying that if i have a big enough turbo that i can run higher boost on pump gas?

So the bigger the turbo the less octane you need to make power?

I guess i need to tell all my customers to run 42Rs and 30PSI on all their motors because that is safer than 30PSI on a T25 on pump gas.

If anything, a larger turbo should make it HARDER to run on pump gas.

You are stuffing MORE air into the motor. Which means you will need more fuel, which means the window for error is smaller than on a stock setup.

I mean 30psi on a stock turbo may make 400whp, on a 35R 600-650 is what people make.

You are telling me that 650 on pump gas is SAFER than 400whp on pump gas? just because the turbo is more efficient?

I dunno, makes ZERO sense :2cents:

[Big Baller]

It just amazes me that Buschur has time to run around the Internet defending himself on every board known to man, I mean even Tracy has given up on that.

[mad JDM]

It just amazes me that Buschur has time to run around the Internet defending himself on every board known to man, I mean even Tracy has given up on that.

LOL....Dave is on a totally different level.;)


In all honesty, I have seen some of Buschur's work first hand in friend's and locals that have went to him, and there are plenty of people out there with amazing results from Buschur's work. I don't doubt for a minute that the results we are seeing is real, but Im sure Buschur has his own tuning "secrets" which is why he is Dave Buschur in the first place. I know one thing, when I am ready for a pump gas monster, Im coming to you Dave.

[Batlground]

No one is doubting the "number", we are doubting the method with which the numbers was achieved.

Having an Evo with His parts and his tuning now all of the sudden means he can contradict what other people in the country are doing.

I am going to leave this up to the professional tuners in the market. Ive contacted Mase, Evans, DonF, Dan Willie@Batlground, Scott Siegel, Doug@Topspeed , Tony1 and a few others to get their tuning thoughts.

Ill post their info in a few days.

Since no one wants to listen to me, ill let others speak.

-Mike

[David Buschu]

As I stated, my shop is open. 24 West Main Street, Wakeman, Ohio. Mon-Fri. 9-6 EST.

Come on up and I'll prove it. Bring some friends and video cameras. I'm very sorry you've been doing this 6 years and haven't figured it out yet. That is regretable to hear.

I can't believe someone with as much "stuff" in his signature has a hard time believing it.

Of all the tuners you listed you contacted I have only heard of one of them, Doug at Top Speed. He knows me. Obviously since this is so hard for you to believe I am assuming these other guys haven't told you about it either or done it.

Go to some of the UK sites and do some reading. You'll find it isn't as rare as you think to run 30 psi. Now making 617 whp on a 2 liter on pump gas is rare, matter of fact, I'd say it's a first. But hey, that's what I do;)

[Batlground]

Dave im just trying to have an intelligent discussion. So far all ive heard is:

My parts are superior
My tuning is superior

Thats fine, you are entitled to that. No one is taking away the power you have made.

What i am asking though, is more than "because i said so" answers.

Doug did have some things to say, ill let him chime in i odnt want to speak for him.

[David Buschu]

Well there is the problem!! haha. I cannot carry on an intelligent conversation as I am a redneck flannel shirt wearing barely high school educated Ohio hillbilly.

I am answering the questions. I do not have an engineering degree, don't want one. I can't give you a book answer on why it's possible. The answer is the parts combination and the tuning make it possible.

[Batlground]

Well there is the problem!! haha. I cannot carry on an intelligent conversation as I am a redneck flannel shirt wearing barely high school educated Ohio hillbilly.

I am answering the questions. I do not have an engineering degree, don't want one. I can't give you a book answer on why it's possible. The answer is the parts combination and the tuning make it possible.

No one called you a hillbilly or said you were dumb or resulted to personal insults so please dont put words in anyones mouth.

Congrats on the numbers. I have my opinion you have yours.

cheers

[David Buschu]

Sorry, Mike. I was not putting words in your mouth. I was using discriptions I have heard about myself in the past. I really am not trying to be confrontational.

I don't mind answering questions, as I did on EVOm. I just don't have a highly technical answer that you may be looking for.

Let me try to do better. On a 4g63 what I have found that the things that greatly improve the ability to run high boost with no knock on pump gas is:

#1 Quality pump gas. No Valero or other junk. BP, Shell, Sunoco have proven very good.

#2. Head porting.

#3. Camshaft selection. We probably have the best cam for pump gas I have seen yet. Our BF272.

#4. Intercooler, you can't have intake temps 100+ and expect to run pump gas and high boost, it will knock. You HAVE to keep the intake air temps low.

#5. Turbo selection. An efficient compressor wheel keeps the air intake temps down, a larger turbine wheel keeps the back pressure down and the cylinders cleaned out.

#6. Free flowing exhaust.

How's that?

David Buschur

[Batlground]

Sorry, Mike. I was not putting words in your mouth. I was using discriptions I have heard about myself in the past. I really am not trying to be confrontational.

I don't mind answering questions, as I did on EVOm. I just don't have a highly technical answer that you may be looking for.

Let me try to do better. On a 4g63 what I have found that the things that greatly improve the ability to run high boost with no knock on pump gas is:

#1 Quality pump gas. No Valero or other junk. BP, Shell, Sunoco have proven very good.

#2. Head porting.

#3. Camshaft selection. We probably have the best cam for pump gas I have seen yet. Our BF272.

#4. Intercooler, you can't have intake temps 100+ and expect to run pump gas and high boost, it will knock. You HAVE to keep the intake air temps low.

#5. Turbo selection. An efficient compressor wheel keeps the air intake temps down, a larger turbine wheel keeps the back pressure down and the cylinders cleaned out.

#6. Free flowing exhaust.

How's that?

David Buschur
thank you, i was looking for this sort of insight.

Again like i said, i am NOT a tuner, i am not an EVO guy either.

you jsut have to realize where im coming from as well, alot of the things you are saying (in regards to pumpp gas) just dont make sense ot me. with this post, you have explained some things.

PM me your phone number, id love to talk to you more off the internet, sometimes its hard to have a discussion online when TONE cannot be conveyed properly

[TopSpeedInc]

I have run up to 28psi on a built 2.0 evo before, on nothing but 93oct pumpgas.

I in no way doubt that Dave is running exactly what he says he is.


Doug

[TopSpeedInc]

Come to think of it... on the few cars I have run really high boost on nothing but pumpgas were all running Buschur Motors.

[stuntman]

hahaha buschur ftw!:goodjob: I was the one to post on evolutionm about this subject lets learn from one another instead of thinking we know it all:)!!
-Aubrey

[WickedIXMR]

Come to think of it... on the few cars I have run really high boost on nothing but pumpgas were all running Buschur Motors.
Case closed.

[WickedIXMR]

To all the non buschur shops, GET ON THEIR LEVEL! (or atleast try...)

[stuntman]

+1 hahahah wicked!:goodjob:
-Aubrey

[MIKE.P]

I have run up to 28psi on a built 2.0 evo before, on nothing but 93oct pumpgas.

I in no way doubt that Dave is running exactly what he says he is.


Dougyou gonna get my car running 28psi 500hp on pump when it comes time for us to tune??

[David Buschu]

Thanks Doug, always a pleasure talking to you in the past. How's the shop going?

[Batlground]

Ones quest for knowledge involves more than just reading a dyno sheet and saying "awesome". I was looking for technical data (which i still havent seen) as to why the evo could get away with things that other engines simple cannot.

Ive been around a few dynos and tuners in my time. Ive owned anything from 240whp NA hondas to 700whp 2JZZ swapped 240s.

I have never owned a DSM, so, when someone posted the results on a local forum, i dismissed them. Its simply something i had never seen before and goes against everything i have ever seen. Ive been around a few 500-800whp evos locally, and they have had Bushur motors before. None of them ran their cars at that boost on pump gas.

Maybe we are close minded, but its simply because the personal experience and rule of thumb for many tuners is 20-22psi on pump gas is dangerous. (AFTERMARKET TURBO).

When i asked for reasons why, i was simply told, because its bushur.

I was looking for someone to say something about VE, quench, burn rate, combustion efficiency, etc.

Obviously thats not going to happen.

I will simply have to accept that this particular EVO (and others) have done amazing things that defy logic.

Thanks

MIKE

[2.3 Evo 8]

Hey Dave, it's Philip Entwistle.

As many people know I have a Buschur/Topspeed Evo. TopSpeed put the car together for me over the last couple years and I am running ALL Buschur parts except the intake manifold which is AMS. I use to run 23 psi on pump gas, but now I've been retuned to 26 psi on 93 octane. No knock, 26 psi, a good bit of timing, and low intake temps.

I also have the Buschur "race" fmic and my intake temps have always been pretty low. That fmic is a monster!

BTW, Doug at TopSpeed retuned the car about 2 months ago and that is when the boost was turned up to 26 psi on pump.

It is all about part selection.

Some people on here know me from evolutionm.net as 2.3 Evo 8.

[Big Baller]

Doug tell me you would be comfortable letting Luke drive an EVO at Miller tuned to 30lbs on pump gas.

Matt

[koukis14]

I have only ever dyno tuned 1 car and that was a 700+ whp n/a V8 Winston Cup Car. I am not claiming to be an expert but my only question is. Is it possible to get the air intake temps that low if it is 2 degrees out and you have a big ass fan running into the front of the car. Also when we did the runs our teacher showed us how much ambient air temp played into numbers my breathing into the AIT sensor and the car gained almost 100 WHP. Just a question.

[HalfBaked]

So many ****ing nutswingers in this thread...

[WickedIXMR]

So many ****ing nutswingers in this thread...
Hell yea i nutswing Buschur racing. They are simply the best in business when it comes to any kind of car dont matter what it is with a 4g63. They have records for everything with with a 4g63. They build the best motors PERIOD. They even put a 4g63 into a rockclimber. Sorry but there just isnt anyone better then Buschur.

[HalfBaked]

Hell yea i nutswing Buschur racing. They are simply the best in business when it comes to any kind of car dont matter what it is with a 4g63. They have records for everything with with a 4g63. They build the best motors PERIOD. They even put a 4g63 into a rockclimber. Sorry but there just isnt anyone better then Buschur.
I don't even see how you can post with your hands so full of c0ck and balls.

[koukis14]

I don't even see how you can post with your hands so full of c0ck and balls.

reps

[David Buschu]

Thread has become useless. See you guys, take care, well some of you;)

[SandM]

as it goes from a technical queary to usual flaming bs. thank you mike, doug, and david for useful technical reading material.

[jaystar]

the car looks like a whale but damn 583 hp damn sure makes up for it

[Ronsam2006]

Case closed.
X2 Buscher Racing is superb!

[Batlground]

Now theres a new record

40PSI on 93OCtane 7xxwhp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hAHE0Pu6Es

[Batlground]

After doing some research and speaking with other people, reading on here, etc heres what i came up with.


1) Seems most EVO guys (compared to other engines i am familiar with) run considerably less compression on their built engines. Most guys are running pretty aggressive cams. What does this mean? Static compression is lower, and dynamic compression is even lower than that.

2) Tony1 (fastest integra in the country , 9.2 1/4 mile) made a good point:

It is the middle of Feb. and Buschur is in Ohio, right? I'd be willing to be ambient temps were pretty chilly. I have a very similar sized intercooler on my car and i'm able to maintain within 30 deg F of ambient temps at the throttle body during a full 1/4 mile run at almost 50psi. 68 deg air temps on a short dyno pull with cold ambient temps is very believable. So i believe the low IATs.

3)
The thing is, most people don't build a setup designed to do that on pump. If there was only 93 octane available, you'd see everything as sub 8:1 compression and more numbers like this. As it stands, we don't have to flirt with disaster for no reason, we do have higher octane fuel available, and for that reason we can take advantage of making an engine more efficient at the expense of giving up some power potential on pump gas.I also agree with that statement. Its prob true that with lowe enough static and dynamic compression, that higher boost (that what i am used to seeing ) is possible on limited octane fuel.

Assuming all this is true (abnormally low compression , cool outside weather, etc)

Let me give you some insight into my thinking though. 6-7 years ago, Honda was the same way. Everyone was buying 8:1 pistons for their turbo applications. People were running 20-25psi to make 400whp on their t3/t4 turbos.

Now, fast forward a few years later, personally i reccomend 9.5:1 on stock sleeves and 10:1 on a sleeved motor. Ive had cars make 500whp @20psi on PUMP gas with a 10:1 compression engine(that still run 20k miles later).

In my personal opinion, the higher compression (within reason) the more efficient, crisp, responsive then motor and car is. The turbo will spool faster, you will get better gas mileage around town, etc.

I perhaps overlooked a few things in the DSM community way of thinking.

This leads me to my second question.

Why run the risk on pump gas at that kind of boost level rather than run methanol or race gas and a higher compression engine? What EGTs are you seeing? Has anyone run a 9.5 or 10:1 motor with THIS 35R for comparisons sake?I think we can all agree that 30psi on 93 petrol , if you get a bad tank of gas (which is totally possible in the summertime) you could potentially have serious issues.

I think we can all agree that a boost spike on a cold wintry night on pump gas at that boost level COULD spell disaster as well.

If you have race gas or meth, the chances for disaster are quite less.

Can this 600+ 93 octane car sustain a 20-30min session on a road course? or is it purely designed for short street/track racing pulls of 11 sec or less? I would be very weary of a car with this power on a road course on reg octane.

I think we can all agree that if this car makes 600+ on pump tan on race gas it will make even more (assuming the turbo is not maxed out). If we are in the quest for power, then why not push it further with higher octane that is readily available?

Im sure it prob because most people have TRUE street cars and want to go to the pump, fill up, and go race. No one wants to deal with meth pumps failing, stopping to put c16 in if you are at least a half tank, etc.

I appreciate the time put forward by Mr. Bushur out of his busy schedule to address my questions and everyone else that has participated and had a constructive word to say. I look forward to more discussion


-MIKE

[Tracy]

You just need to learn that some folks go for the number and some people only care about that (that goes for customers and tuners). I hope you spoke with Dan while on your quest for knowledge :) We did own a pretty fast "non-Bushur" Evo at one point.

[darkstar6069]

You just need to learn that some folks go for the number and some people only care about that (that goes for customers and tuners). I hope you spoke with Dan while on your quest for knowledge :) We did own a pretty fast "non-Bushur" Evo at one point.
Lies, it was never fast! :)

[Kyle]

So many ****ing nutswingers in this thread...
Particularly mr. omg +1, I love evos and buschur!

+1 hahahah wicked!:goodjob:
-Aubrey

He's a great tuner, big deal. No need to ride his nuts.

[stuntman]

Particularly mr. omg +1, I love evos and buschur!


He's a great tuner, big deal. No need to ride his nuts.
Okay KYLe no nut swingers here huh? let loose on my nuts state your opinion of thread topic only! My bad folk just givin credit were credit is do. You must have been keeping tabs on me since the beginning of the thread stfu and go drive your vw! :goodjob:
-Aubrey

[MIKE.P]

.

Why run the risk on pump gas at that kind of boost level rather than run methanol or race gas and a higher compression engine? What EGTs are you seeing? Has anyone run a 9.5 or 10:1 motor with THIS 35R for comparisons sake?I think we can all agree that 30psi on 93 petrol , if you get a bad tank of gas (which is totally possible in the summertime) you could potentially have serious issues.




-MIKEhey mike...we will be running 9:1 in our car... witch is more comp. than a stock motor.. i think stock is around 8.8. very rarely will you find anybody running 9.5-10:1... in a act of god hopefully we can hit 500 on pump @26-28psi!! if not we are going to be putting meth or alky on! well see though!!

[3.5altman]

time for me to get an evo

[evokenny]

i saw the video on that ...very nice numbers

[Big Baller]

LMAO...look at this ****...David....Als making you look like a *****...I guess you should try for 1000hp on pump gas.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1457870