my GSR?

[Mangrum]

Allright guys this is my first build and have some knowledge but nowhere what i need to complete this alone. so i am asking advice. i have a 2000 gsr (b18c1) and i want to go NA. where should i begin and what all shoudl i do? the car is bone stock right now with everything exhaust, intake etc... thanks in advance and yes NOOB so dont bash to hard i am openly ADMITTING i need help lol

[ballistic08]

what kind of power you looking to make and what kind of budget are you on?

[Mangrum]

well the money i guess is not the main issue because i will just buy things as the money comes.. but prolly 3 grand.. and power wise if possible in the mid 200's.. if i am not mistaken my motor has 160 whp( just what i have heard not sayign i am right) so maybe 100+ hp

[allmotoronly]

well the money i guess is not the main issue because i will just buy things as the money comes.. but prolly 3 grand.. and power wise if possible in the mid 200's.. if i am not mistaken my motor has 160 whp( just what i have heard not sayign i am right) so maybe 100+ hp

3 grand won't get you mid 250's. If you want to stay streetable, you probably won't make more than 215-220whp. To make 250+whp, you are going to need to do a few of these things:

First: consider the things you are going to have to buy/have done

-Possibly get the block sleeved to 84+mm (displacement=easy hp)
-Get higher comp pistons (12:1+)
-get a good set of n/a rods (eagle ESP)
-A good head P&P, 5 angle valve job, etc
-Massive cams (and I mean massive)
-complete valve train upgrades (valves, valve springs, retainers, etc)
-Aftermarket IM, TB, injectors, or just go with ITB's
-A stand alone system with a GOOD tune (emphasis on GOOD)
-get one of Mr. Kidd's headers

Second: ask Mr. Kidd's advice.
-He made something like 247whp N/A on a 2.0L LS/Vtec (which was the record for a long time, if not still)

Third: consider the price
-You're probably looking at at least $7-10k for this build.

Fourth: consider the most relistic way to make 250whp.
-If you want 250+whp, go spend $2500 and get a bolt on turbo kit. It will be reliable and with a good tune your engine will probably last a LOT longer.

[Mangrum]

ha thank you that is helpfull.. so maybe 250whp is a little out of my price range lol.. so if i wanted to stick in the 215 range where would be a good area to start.. same as the list above or what? thank you again

[allmotoronly]

ha thank you that is helpfull.. so maybe 250whp is a little out of my price range lol.. so if i wanted to stick in the 215 range where would be a good area to start.. same as the list above or what? thank you again

for $3000 or less, you could TRY to get 215whp out of:

1) JDM ITR Pistons (P73-00, not P73-A0) .25 over
--- That should net you around 11.45:1 C/R. The only thing higher would be PCT pistons (jdm CTR), which would put you close to the pump gas threshold at around 12.1:1

- You could choose to go with forged pistons at a higher C/R if you want to run an octane booster or race gas.

2) Eagle esp rods (if you expect to rev higher than 8500, I would recommend these)-- Make sure to get the ones with ARP fasteners.

3) a good bottom end rebuild with good bearings (acl) and a new oil pump while you're at it.

4) A good head p&p and 3 (or 5) angle valve job

5) A good set of cams (skunk2 pro 2's, Buddy clubs, etc)

6) A good set of valve springs and retainers to match

7) A good single runner intake manifold, and larger throttle body/injectors

8) A GOOD chipped ECU and tune

9) A good header (ask Mr. Kidd)

10) A good mechanic to put it all together!!

--These are just a few key componants of the build. There will of course be quite a few other parts you will need.

[japan4racing]

Fourth: consider the most relistic way to make 250whp.
-If you want 250+whp, go spend $2500 and get a bolt on turbo kit. It will be reliable and with a good tune your engine will probably last a LOT longer.

a couple years agp i had a drag gen III turbo kit with a 57trim t3/t04e i made 260whp on 7psi on a stock gsr motor...that was $2500 for the turbo set-up, $300 for injectors, and about $400 for ecu and tuning. car went 12.50's..cant complain

[ksniperfox]

your motor makes somewhere around 140whp stock. you wont reach your goals with your budget. only FI will get you there.

[Batlground]

Allright guys this is my first build and have some knowledge but nowhere what i need to complete this alone. so i am asking advice. i have a 2000 gsr (b18c1) and i want to go NA. where should i begin and what all shoudl i do? the car is bone stock right now with everything exhaust, intake etc... thanks in advance and yes NOOB so dont bash to hard i am openly ADMITTING i need help lol

First, be realistic. 2000 GSR makes around 150-155whp BONE STOCK. With $3000 you can get to 190whp pretty easily with small mods. mid 200s is impossible unless you want to spend $10K-15K on a build engine, dyno time, etc.

REALISTICALLY, for $3000 your looking at a setup i just recently did :
Skunk2 Stage 1s-$500
Mr. Kidd/Batlground Header-$400
Skunk2 Intake manifold $200
AEM Intake $250
Crome Pro ECU and Harness-$270
Skunk2 Mega Power R Exhaust-$450
PARTS-$2070

The extra money would get you install and tuning an you would make about what this customer makes:
http://batlground.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=195
http://batlground.com/gallery/albums/kyle_mcneely/normal_Mcneely%20copy.jpg

So you wold pick up about 40whp and 15-20TQ. the car would feel totally different, much faster than what you have.

Now you could do a QUALITY turbo kit for around $4500, make 220-230whp/180-190TQ and be much faster, but it does cost more.

[Mangrum]

First, be realistic. 2000 GSR makes around 150-155whp BONE STOCK. With $3000 you can get to 190whp pretty easily with small mods. mid 200s is impossible unless you want to spend $10K-15K on a build engine, dyno time, etc.

REALISTICALLY, for $3000 your looking at a setup i just recently did :
Skunk2 Stage 1s-$500
Mr. Kidd/Batlground Header-$400
Skunk2 Intake manifold $200
AEM Intake $250
Crome Pro ECU and Harness-$270
Skunk2 Mega Power R Exhaust-$450
PARTS-$2070

The extra money would get you install and tuning an you would make about what this customer makes:
http://batlground.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=195
http://batlground.com/gallery/albums/kyle_mcneely/normal_Mcneely%20copy.jpg

So you wold pick up about 40whp and 15-20TQ. the car would feel totally different, much faster than what you have.

Now you could do a QUALITY turbo kit for around $4500, make 220-230whp/180-190TQ and be much faster, but it does cost more.

thank you that is what i was looking for.. that helps me! you didnt mention anything about pistons or really anything internal in the block. what is the reason for that? is that not needed for that setup or would pistons be useful as well for a little more of a difference? cause like i stated i wanted to go NA. so would pistons and raising the compression be a good thing or a bad thing?

[Batlground]

thank you that is what i was looking for.. that helps me! you didnt mention anything about pistons or really anything internal in the block. what is the reason for that? is that not needed for that setup or would pistons be useful as well for a little more of a difference? cause like i stated i wanted to go NA. so would pistons and raising the compression be a good thing or a bad thing?
Adding pistons and higher compression will definetly increase power, but you stated you had a $3000 budget.

for $3000, you cant do internals the RIGHT way. you could slap some pistons in the car, sure, but it wouldnt be done RIGHT.

And with $3000 and a stock engine like you have, what i listed is a good, reliable power gain. You would be happy with that gain and thats a lot of good solid mods, and it leaves you room to grow.

[Mangrum]

ok i understand now.. well just to make this clear. with the build you stated if in the future i had more money and wanted to go back and do the internals right. i could leave the parts i have in the "previous" build correct? i wouldnt have to go back and start from scratch? i can use the build you stated then later go back and do pistons, rods, etc etc... thank you again you are giving me great info

[Mangrum]

and another things with the skunk2 stage 1 cam. would it be safe without doing the i valves etc? or would i have to?

[Batlground]

and another things with the skunk2 stage 1 cam. would it be safe without doing the i valves etc? or would i have to?
you never have to do valves, unless your pulling the head completely.

You do not need springs, or retainers. the cams are bolt in, they are made to work with STOCK engines.

The setup i listed is capable of 200-215whp with the right internals. if you decide down the road to go with a built engine and do 12.5:1 pistons and rods, then you can make over 200whp easily.

if you do decide to want more, you can always go with more aggressive camshafts and go with valvesprings and retainers. the cams i listed (skunk2 stage 1s) are very mild, slightly more aggressive than ITR cams, an are great for stock motors.

what im basically trying to tell you is that for the budget you are talking about , thats the best setup.

If you decide to go into the engine, the header is fine, the intake manifold is fine, the intake is fine, the cams can support more power, but if you want to upgrade you can too.

I had a mid 200s whp NA LSVTEC and i had $9000 in the ENGINE meaning oil pan to valve cover

just to give you a rough estimate of what it takes to build an engine like that.

[Mangrum]

thank you that is what i needed.. now on to the important part saving money! lol

[LS2ner]

for $3000 or less, you could TRY to get 215whp out of:

1) JDM ITR Pistons (P73-00, not P73-A0) .25 over
--- That should net you around 11.45:1 C/R. The only thing higher would be PCT pistons (jdm CTR), which would put you close to the pump gas threshold at around 12.1:1

- You could choose to go with forged pistons at a higher C/R if you want to run an octane booster or race gas.

2) Eagle esp rods (if you expect to rev higher than 8500, I would recommend these)-- Make sure to get the ones with ARP fasteners.

3) a good bottom end rebuild with good bearings (acl) and a new oil pump while you're at it.

4) A good head p&p and 3 (or 5) angle valve job

5) A good set of cams (skunk2 pro 2's, Buddy clubs, etc)

6) A good set of valve springs and retainers to match

7) A good single runner intake manifold, and larger throttle body/injectors

8) A GOOD chipped ECU and tune

9) A good header (ask Mr. Kidd)

10) A good mechanic to put it all together!!

--These are just a few key componants of the build. There will of course be quite a few other parts you will need.

Good intentions, but way more than 3 grand. Thats probably over 1500 just in machine work and assembly. Even more if someone respectable does the headwork.

OP - Listen to Batlgrnd. Im in the process of building an ls/vtec motor and ive spent WAY more than 3g's and im not done buying parts. I prob have 1100 bucks in labor alone.

[Batlground]

1) JDM ITR Pistons (P73-00, not P73-A0) .25 over
--- That should net you around 11.45:1 C/R. The only thing higher would be PCT pistons (jdm CTR), which would put you close to the pump gas threshold at around 12.1:1

- You could choose to go with forged pistons at a higher C/R if you want to run an octane booster or race gas.

and when will people realize that CTR pistons are MUCH HIGHER COMPRESSION that whats published on the internet.

P72 head/B18C Block

STD = 12.924594026551906
.25 OS = 12.989047869209281

[allmotoronly]

and when will people realize that CTR pistons are MUCH HIGHER COMPRESSION that whats published on the internet.

P72 head/B18C Block

STD = 12.924594026551906
.25 OS = 12.989047869209281

I calculated the compression to be 12.042422511586593:1 using the fact that CRT pistons have a 8.63cc dome, using the B18C1 piston to deck height of .030, P72 head combustion chamber of 41.60cc, oem B series head gasket thickness of 0.0290, and of course 81mm bore, 87,2mm stroke. I don't know where you are getting 12.92:1... I do my own math, but I do use some measurements found on the internet (combustion chamber cc, piston to deck height). The only reason I can figure that I am wrong about the compression ratio is if one of these measurements is wrong. Tell me what I'm doing wrong so I can fix it. Dont just say I am wrong.

[Batlground]

I calculated the compression to be 12.042422511586593:1 using the fact that CRT pistons have a 8.63cc dome, using the B18C1 piston to deck height of .030, P72 head combustion chamber of 41.60cc, oem B series head gasket thickness of 0.0290, and of course 81mm bore, 87,2mm stroke. I don't know where you are getting 12.92:1... I do my own math, but I do use some measurements found on the internet (combustion chamber cc, piston to deck height). The only reason I can figure that I am wrong about the compression ratio is if one of these measurements is wrong. Tell me what I'm doing wrong so I can fix it. Dont just say I am wrong.
Yeah, most people forget about piston to deck height which with pct's is about 0.0(at least on b18b block), since the pct's are taller by about .03''...

CTR pistons are taller than other B pistons, so you forgot to take that into account ;)

[Mangrum]

hah wow i thought i had some more wonderful things to read up on and yall just arguring lol :D

[allmotoronly]

Yeah, most people forget about piston to deck height which with pct's is about 0.0(at least on b18b block), since the pct's are taller by about .03''...

CTR pistons are taller than other B pistons, so you forgot to take that into account ;)

Ok I get what you're saying. So are the PCT pistons the only ones that have a 0.00 piston to deck height? I think that most other B series pistons have .030 piston to deck height.

damn jdm stuff always throwing me off. I have acura and honda clearances and specs on most usdm engines, just not the jdm engines... I just figured the piston to deck height was pretty much the same on all B series pistons...

edit: I did a few more calculations. I came up with 0.07 piston to deck height on the PCT's. Is that about right?

I got 12.989047869209281 for .25 oversizes pistons.

[TheChosenOne]

This is the most useful thread I have read in while! Plus 1 for all!