FWD-RWD-AWD

[Got Milk?]

what u prefer for your self. and y.

***** ASS ***** ASS THIS IS A WHORE LUNGE ASS MOTHER ****ING ASS TOPIC.

^^ ok now its in the rite section

[man]

RWD, I think FWD and AWD are both kinda boring

[MachNU]

rwd ftmfw!

[Andy_013]

rwd ftmfw!
x2

[MistaCee]

RWD

[EJ25RUN]

at the end of the day..... a RWD car more than any other proves how good a driver you are.

[quickdodge®]

Sent to mods for placement in correct section. Later, QD.

[Reaper]

Fwd is pointless
Awd is for those who can't drive(unless your in a truck or SUV)
Rwd mtmfw!!!!

[SE-Rious1]

RWD is more fun

[OneSlow5pt0]

RWD

[Evil Goat]

ive had more fun in rwd vehicles than anything....i will no longer own a fwd as a toy anymore

[Nemesis]

I went from AWD to RWD and I love it. The only thing is, there is more of a safety factor of AWD that I miss.

[Crazy Asian]

RWD!!! FWD gets boring. you cant have fun in the rain.

[Reaper]

RWD!!! FWD gets boring. you cant have fun in the rain.

what does rain have to do with it?:thinking:

[OneSlow5pt0]

what does rain have to do with it?:thinking:

no traction.......

[BKgen®]

RWD ftmfw! rwd on my hot rod, fwd on my DD though :(

[Crazy Asian]

tail kicking out, sliding fun. FWD you cant do anything at all....
except tray slide which is no fun.

[Got Milk?]

I laugh at people with rear wheel drive at snow.

[Reaper]

tail kicking out, sliding fun. FWD you cant do anything at all....
except tray slide which is no fun.

it doesn't have to rain to do that and be under control, at least for a semi-skilled driver...as far as it not being as loud and a LITTLE less dangerous I agree:goodjob: There have been MANY times that I've gone sliding(I won't call it drifting cuz I wasn't going fast enough) through open parking lots/empty neighborhoods etc...Then again I've done it dry and tire smoke=attention.

[Reaper]

tail kicking out, sliding fun. FWD you cant do anything at all....
except tray slide which is no fun.

tray sliding is fun the first time you do it....then when you run out of trays...your stuck w/fwd again..:lmfao:

[Crazy Asian]

..sigh. I wish Prelude's came RWD!!!

[Reaper]

..sigh. I wish Prelude's came RWD!!!

its called an s2000:goodjob:

[Crazy Asian]

AND THIS GOES IN CAR TALK SECTION!!! MOVE IT NOW!!!!!

[BKgen®]

..sigh. I wish Prelude's came RWD!!!

ditto about tibs :yes:

[Crazy Asian]

its called an s2000:goodjob:


ITS CALLED IM 6'5. I barely squeeze in them and top up it's a bit more harder.

[Reaper]

ITS CALLED IM 6'5. I barely squeeze in them and top up it's a bit more harder.

lol yeah im 6'2" and they are irritating to me:lmfao:

[OneSlow5pt0]

ditto about tibs :yes:

they do u cracka......well they will

[Crazy Asian]

ya im looking at that. Cheap and effective? OOO that sounds too good.

[BKgen®]

they do u cracka......well they will

GENESIS COUPE, NEGRA!

[OneSlow5pt0]

GENESIS COUPE, NEGRA!

:eek:

not during BHM, nucca

[JennB]

You sure as hell can slide a FWD car around in the rain. Don't ever buy a rental car, our last one was FWD.... poor thing. It slid, oh yes, it slid.

Funniest thing about this thread is how many people saying how much they love RWD in this thread actually own a RWD car.

I like both, never owned an AWD car, just driven a few here and there. You can do some things with a RWD that you can't do with FWD but there are FWD cars that handle amazingly well and are a hell of a lot of fun to drive. I own a RWD car and I like it a lot but I have no problem with FWD cars at all.

[GTScoob]

I laugh at people with rear wheel drive at snow.
And they laugh at you the other 364 days a year.

I voted RWD, its way more fun. I love my AWD but sometimes I'd like to be able to play around more with it on pavement.

[DeeAOne]

as much as i like FWD and such i vote for RWD for the fun factor.

[Reaper]

And they laugh at you the other 364 days a year.

I voted RWD, its way more fun. I love my AWD but sometimes I'd like to be able to play around more with it on pavement.

thats such a rep worthy post! +whatever im worth!

[EJ25RUN]

I laugh at people with rear wheel drive at snow.

they're to busy powersliding to care!

[man]

I laugh at people with rear wheel drive at snow.

What snow? This is Import ATLANTA

[blackshine007]

I think that with a limited slip in a front wheel drive car, it closes the gap on the RWD>FWD thing because if you let off the gas in a corner, the front wheels might push but if you give it more gas it will start gripping harder into the corner and sometimes the tail might start sliding out (providing the suspension is set up right for it). I still agree that RWD>FWD but for power to weight, it's the other way around. AWD is like FWD but with training wheels.

[redrumracer]

RWD all the way

[matthewAPM]

zero people have voted for FWD yet there are millions of them on here.

The reason for me picking RWD is because it will always be faster. Even tho i have a civic si and it faster than every car in the world, i would pick RWD any day

[matthewAPM]

I think that with a limited slip in a front wheel drive car, it closes the gap on the RWD>FWD thing because if you let off the gas in a corner, the front wheels might push but if you give it more gas it will start gripping harder into the corner and sometimes the tail might start sliding out (providing the suspension is set up right for it). I still agree that RWD>FWD but for power to weight, it's the other way around. AWD is like FWD but with training wheels.

umm no. thats y there is no FWD drift cars. when u hit the gas, it pushes.

but yes, FWD is very fast... look at the autocross results from points 1

[hondachik]

audi's ftw!!

[Got Milk?]

And they laugh at you the other 364 days a year.

I voted RWD, its way more fun. I love my AWD but sometimes I'd like to be able to play around more with it on pavement.

laugh at me for what? cus my car is a FWD? explain?

[Deke]

I've had RWD and AWD, and I've got to say I'm a fan of traction. It does suck sometimes not being able to unleash a little frustration on my rear tires (RWD cars have a higher fun factor), but for a car that I drive daily and get into all sorts of different on-road situations, I'm very happy to have AWD.

[EJ25RUN]

Allot of you guys are forgetting (ok most of you don't know) about Class II FWD touring cars from the mid to late 90's......

They can and have beaten RWD and AWD cars on the track and cost Formula 1 like budgets to make so they died out around the year 2000!

http://coronaexiv.hood.jp/exiv_sportivo/1996hattori_02.jpghttp://www.japcar.ru/images/primera%20gt-turbo.jpg

[Got Milk?]

allot of you guys are forgetting (ok most of you don't know) about Class II fwd touring cars from the mid to late 90's......They can and have beaten RWD and AWD cars on the track. AND cost Formula 1 like budgets to make!

http://coronaexiv.hood.jp/exiv_sportivo/1996hattori_02.jpghttp://www.japcar.ru/images/primera%20gt-turbo.jpg



FACTS FTW

[Got Milk?]

ohh, and i voted AWD FTW!

[RandomGuy]

wheres side wheel drive ?

[Got Milk?]

wheres side wheel drive ?

:thinking:

[matthewAPM]

wheres side wheel drive ?

:screwy:

my car>RWD>FWD>AWD

[Got Milk?]

:screwy:

my car>RWD>FWD>AWD

U tell them champ.

[Jecht]

Different cars and setups are better entirely depending on the situation. For me, I love RWD for fun, FWD for more mundane tasks. But I had a lot of traction issues in my old S13 that I simply don't get from my FWD Jetta (that and the fact that it is slow as ****).

FWD can basically be made to function just as well as RWD cars, and if you've ever been to an autocross event, you should know this already. The CRX is one of the more popular and better performing cars in it's class in Solo.

[matthewAPM]

U tell them champ.

LMAO. put it this way, if the others were faster, why dont they use them in F1, LMS, ALMS, etc.

[matthewAPM]

Different cars and setups are better entirely depending on the situation. For me, I love RWD for fun, FWD for more mundane tasks. But I had a lot of traction issues in my old S13 that I simply don't get from my FWD Jetta (that and the fact that it is slow as ****).

FWD can basically be made to function just as well as RWD cars, and if you've ever been to an autocross event, you should know this already. The CRX is one of the more popular and better performing cars in it's class in Solo.

like i said, look at the results from points 1... STS/STS2 FTW

BTW, we are on street tires and open diff

[Thighs]

open diff = one wheel drive. lol

[Got Milk?]

like i said, look at the results from points 1... STS/STS2 FTW

BTW, we are on street tires and open diff

autocross champ tire there. :( (i hate ur amazing driving skills)

[matthewAPM]

autocross champ tire there. :( (i hate ur amazing driving skills)

my amazing driving skills? hmm if i was "amazing" i would have won.

champ tire?

[Got Milk?]

my amazing driving skills? hmm if i was "amazing" i would have one.

champ tire?

wanted to spell rite there..to lazy to go back and correct my mistakes.:crazy:

[Got Milk?]

by the way, how many times did u win the autocross? 3 times i hear.

[man]

Allot of you guys are forgetting (ok most of you don't know) about Class II FWD touring cars from the mid to late 90's......

They can and have beaten RWD and AWD cars on the track and cost Formula 1 like budgets to make so they died out around the year 2000!

http://coronaexiv.hood.jp/exiv_sportivo/1996hattori_02.jpghttp://www.japcar.ru/images/primera%20gt-turbo.jpg

So for a F1 budget you would rather have a FWD honda than, say, an ACTUAL F1 car? I wonder which is faster... :rolleyes:

I would say this just PROVES the point that RWD is the way to go.

[matthewAPM]

by the way, how many times did u win the autocross? 3 times i hear.

how can u win the same thing 3 times? im not going to argue with a dumbass...


So for a F1 budget you would rather have a FWD honda than, say, an ACTUAL F1 car? I wonder which is faster... :rolleyes:

I would say this just PROVES the point that RWD is the way to go.


LMAO. put it this way, if the others were faster, why dont they use them in F1, LMS, ALMS, etc.
:goodjob:

[man]

im not going to argue with a dumbass...

Step away from the mirror then, lol

[Got Milk?]

how can u win the same thing 3 times? im not going to argue with a dumbass...



:goodjob:

lol idk, i guess you go the next year, and next year, and next year. And that makes it 3 rimes? :???:

[matthewAPM]

Step away from the mirror then, lol

lol

[Jecht]

ITT: people arguing over drivetrain setups and how they stereotype each one.

[blackshine007]

umm no. thats y there is no FWD drift cars. when u hit the gas, it pushes.

but yes, FWD is very fast... look at the autocross results from points 1
I know quite a few guys who would disagree with you. With an open differential due to the power being transfered to the wheel with the least resistance, naturally it's gonna be the on the corner with the lesser of loads, which, naturally cause the inside tire to spin and leave the remaining tire on that axle as the wheel providing the grip. But due to weight and all laws of gravity and inertia, it's gonna keep pushing forward due to that outer tire taking so much load. RWD vehicles has can do the same thing. RWD vehicles aren't always capable of oversteer. Most factory vehicles that has come with an open differential can quite easily understeer. Honda's torque biased LSD is a system that is quite neat, which was first seen on the Prelude type SH. Being electronicly controlled, when cornering, it sends most of the engine's power to the outside wheel to try to match the wheel speeds of inner. The results of that is that there's way more grip available due to both wheels trying to spin at the same speed.

Like I said, depending upon suspension set up, if you stay on the gas the front tires won't really break loose but there's a great possibilty that the rears will. And I take it you don't go on youtube that often.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOASjjpRnXk

[matthewAPM]

I know quite a few guys who would disagree with you. With an open differential due to the power being transfered to the wheel with the least resistance, naturally it's gonna be the on the corner with the lesser of loads, which, naturally cause the inside tire to spin and leave the remaining tire on that axle as the wheel providing the grip. But due to weight and all laws of gravity and inertia, it's gonna keep pushing forward due to that outer tire taking so much load. RWD vehicles has can do the same thing. RWD vehicles aren't always capable of oversteer. Most factory vehicles that has come with an open differential can quite easily understeer. Honda's torque biased LSD is a system that is quite neat, which was first seen on the Prelude type SH. Being electronicly controlled, when cornering, it sends most of the engine's power to the outside wheel to try to match the wheel speeds of inner. The results of that is that there's way more grip available due to both wheels trying to spin at the same speed.

Like I said, depending upon suspension set up, if you stay on the gas the front tires won't really break loose but there's a great possibilty that the rears will. And I take it you don't go on youtube that often.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOASjjpRnXk

:lmfao: :screwy: :lmfao: :screwy: :lmfao:

are you seriously telling me this? the rear will break loose before the front when on the power? HAHA. if thats true, come show me in my car. for a FWD, think "lift to drift".

[blackshine007]

EF chassis' are different. There's a great chance it won't break loose due to it's weight. Like I mentioned, your suspension has alot to do with how the rear does as well. The the words "snap oversteer" come into mind? The cars that's based on my chassis (mx6, ford probe) is known for doing that. My first 626 done it (unexpectedly) and I ran into a tree (unfamiliar with that road being foolish). I'm pretty sure it could do it now while taking a corner though I'm not planning on taking my car to it's limits any time soon. Even the EM type R's can break loose too. Watch another vid, please...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfqN_DDkppc

[0p7!mu5]

i've driven both i love fwd but damn yo rwd made my old 323 look like a champ from the piece of crap it was..

[matthewAPM]

EF chassis' are different. There's a great chance it won't break loose due to it's weight. Like I mentioned, your suspension has alot to do with how the rear does as well. The the words "snap oversteer" come into mind? The cars that's based on my chassis (mx6, ford probe) is known for doing that. My first 626 done it (unexpectedly) and I ran into a tree (unfamiliar with that road being foolish). I'm pretty sure it could do it now while taking a corner though I'm not planning on taking my car to it's limits any time soon. Even the EM type R's can break loose too. Watch another vid, please...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfqN_DDkppc

im not a ****ing idiot. i know what a FWD car does and what it doesnt. EF chassis are different? it breaks loose in the rear because of my setup and NO wieght in the rear.

"snap oversteer" is when a car "snaps" loose on you. general from tires breaking loose. your car is not the only one that has oversteer. drive really fast around a corner, lift off the gas and tell me what happens....

i push my car to the limit almost every weekend and can tell you exactly what will happen. i also instruct at these events and have driven dozens of FWD cars and could tell you about those too. You are not going to drift a FWD car simple by applying power.

if you think you know everything about FWD's, come make my setup better than it is. I would love to see that happen

[man]

EF chassis' are different. There's a great chance it won't break loose due to it's weight. Like I mentioned, your suspension has alot to do with how the rear does as well. The the words "snap oversteer" come into mind? The cars that's based on my chassis (mx6, ford probe) is known for doing that. My first 626 done it (unexpectedly) and I ran into a tree (unfamiliar with that road being foolish). I'm pretty sure it could do it now while taking a corner though I'm not planning on taking my car to it's limits any time soon. Even the EM type R's can break loose too. Watch another vid, please...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfqN_DDkppc

So now oversteering is a good thing?

[Jecht]

So now oversteering is a good thing?
Well a little oversteer is good if you can control it because you can use it to tighten your line to get through a corner faster.

[EJ25RUN]

some people in this thread......... have no idea what their talking about.

[gijeff1805]

AWD better launching...

[man]

some people in this thread......... have no idea what their talking about.

Agreed

[On_Her_Face]

rear wheel drive is the most fun, awd is fun too

[matthewAPM]

Well a little oversteer is good if you can control it because you can use it to tighten your line to get through a corner faster.

correct. its called slip angle.


some people in this thread......... have no idea what their talking about.

lol. +1.

[EM1toEVO]

I've had all three, and I prefer AWD.

[Echonova]

I'm thinking Arby's.

[turborodarry]

awd is only good for cyclones, fwd for nothing and rwd owns all

[EM1toEVO]

I'm thinking Arby's.

I see the little cowboy hat over your avatar, lol!

[GTScoob]

I think that with a limited slip in a front wheel drive car, it closes the gap on the RWD>FWD thing because if you let off the gas in a corner, the front wheels might push but if you give it more gas it will start gripping harder into the corner and sometimes the tail might start sliding out (providing the suspension is set up right for it). I still agree that RWD>FWD but for power to weight, it's the other way around. AWD is like FWD but with training wheels.
Sounds like you're describing AWD bro. A properly setup AWD car will claw its way around a turn but have enough power through the rear wheels to keep the attitude neutral. FWD will not turn in harder under gas, AWD will if its set up right.

[Barefoot]

rwd ftw

[blackshine007]

Sounds like you're describing AWD bro. A properly setup AWD car will claw its way around a turn but have enough power through the rear wheels to keep the attitude neutral. FWD will not turn in harder under gas, AWD will if its set up right.
I think I would've mentioned AWD when describing a FWD car with an LSD and properly set up suspension. I'm aware that you can get a good 4 wheel drift going in an AWD car. It's way more controllable with AWD providing there's enough power and a good suspension set up. When I said it closed the gap on the RWD>FWD that didn't mean that it completely dominates AWD. Just gives you a more compelling reason to keep a FWD car.

[matthewAPM]

I think I would've mentioned AWD when describing a FWD car with an LSD and properly set up suspension. I'm aware that you can get a good 4 wheel drift going in an AWD car. It's way more controllable with AWD providing there's enough power and a good suspension set up. When I said it closed the gap on the RWD>FWD that didn't mean that it completely dominates AWD. Just gives you a more compelling reason to keep a FWD car.

blackshine007, im still waiting to here a response to post #69. ready to here more forza talk

[blackshine007]

blackshine007, im still waiting to here a response to post #69. ready to here more forza talk

I don't own Forza, let alone an Xbox 360 or PS3. You drive a car with a shorter wheel base. It's characteristics are naturally gonna be different from a car with a longer wheelbase. But, you're right. It's just Forza talk, because I guess I'm talking out my arse. EJ25RUN might be on to something :jerkit:

[EJ25RUN]

EJ25RUN might be on to something :jerkit:

no wanking for me.

[blackshine007]

boobs are fun :yes:

[matthewAPM]

I don't own Forza, let alone an Xbox 360 or PS3. You drive a car with a shorter wheel base. It's characteristics are naturally gonna be different from a car with a longer wheelbase. But, you're right. It's just Forza talk, because I guess I'm talking out my arse. EJ25RUN might be on to something

and you think i havent driven other cars? did u not read my post? I geuss not because your still saying some stupid sh.it. a shorter wheel base car has more rotation (generally setup related) but the handling is similiar for all FWD, lift drift. go race a car then come back and tell me that gas in a FWD = oversteer.

like i said, if you know oo so much about FWD then set my car up please.

BTW, EJ25RUN knows his ****. and he can tell you the same thing. watch some incar race videos and learn a thing or to. watch steering and throttle/brake input. what you said was logical yet was wrong (applys for some AWD cars and RWD cars).

nice try.

[Jecht]

correct. its called slip angle.

Yeah but I felt if I had just said slip angle that everyone else wouldn't understand.

[Mr_Mischif]

tray sliding is fun the first time you do it....then when you run out of trays...your stuck w/fwd again..:lmfao:

LOLz so true

[EJ25RUN]

who was the first person to vote FWD?

Reveal yourself!

[matthewAPM]

Yeah but I felt if I had just said slip angle that everyone else wouldn't understand.

haha. true. but because its IA, you could have put JDM slip angle and people would have understood. lol

[man]

correct. its called slip angle.

Kind of, in the sense that oversteer is a circumstance of a certain slip angle.

At the same time, understeer and neutral handling are both attributed to the slip angle.

Calling oversteer the "slip angle" would be like calling engine knock the air/fuel ratio.

[matthewAPM]

drift is holding the car sideways for a period of time...not fast

slip angle is more of a rotation into a corner.

[OneSlow5pt0]

i voted fwd

[man]

drift is holding the car sideways for a period of time...not fast

slip angle is more of a rotation into a corner.

Slip angle is the angular difference between the direction the tire is moving and the way it is pointing.

[matthewAPM]

Slip angle is the angular difference between the direction the tire is moving and the way it is pointing.

thats pretty much what i said, just tuned down for IA.

[blackshine007]

and you think i havent driven other cars? did u not read my post? I geuss not because your still saying some stupid sh.it. a shorter wheel base car has more rotation (generally setup related) but the handling is similiar for all FWD, lift drift. go race a car then come back and tell me that gas in a FWD = oversteer.

like i said, if you know oo so much about FWD then set my car up please.

BTW, EJ25RUN knows his ****. and he can tell you the same thing. watch some incar race videos and learn a thing or to. watch steering and throttle/brake input. what you said was logical yet was wrong (applys for some AWD cars and RWD cars).

nice try.

So basicly, you're telling me that a FWD car is by no means capable of oversteer due to the drivetrain configuration?

I could possibly help you with your suspension set up, what's your specs front and rear and what's the average speed you do around a track? I'm not trying to be an ass, but honestly I try to help out anyone. Are you shallow enough not to listen or do you know everything? PM me your specs and we can converse there.

[Jecht]

It is VERY difficult to get a FWD car to oversteer without letting off the throttle. Blackshine, in BOTH those videos you posted, the drivers are letting off the gas to get the rear to slide. In the case of that "drift" Civic, he grabs the ebrake first so that it swings out, and he lets off of the gas. It is also easier to do in that car because of the short wheel base and high spring rates in the rear. If you listen to Jeremy in the second video you posted from Top Gear, at exactly 00:49 seconds into the video Jeremy says "if you turn into a corner without the power on, the back slides around."

You REALLY don't know what you are talking about.

The reason that Type R Civic from the Top Gear video slides when you let off the gas is because of the stiffer rear springs and larger rear sway bar. You can tell it has those stiff rear suspension bits because of the way it lifts the inner wheel in a corner.

[EJ25RUN]

So basicly, you're telling me that a FWD car is by no means capable of oversteer due to the drivetrain configuration?

I could possibly help you with your suspension set up, what's your specs front and rear and what's the average speed you do around a track? I'm not trying to be an ass, but honestly I try to help out anyone. Are you shallow enough not to listen or do you know everything? PM me your specs and we can converse there.
You want to make a chassis that naturally understeers to oversteer? Why?

Oversteer = bad
Fwd = understeer
Understeer = bad
blackshine007= really doesn't know what he's talking about

[Jecht]

Lets put it this way: ANY loss of traction is stupid and will slow you down significantly. The only reason understeer is seen as bad is because it can only hurt the line you take around a corner, unlike oversteer where you can use to tighten the line closer to the inside of the corner.

[EJ25RUN]

Lets put it this way: ANY loss of traction is stupid and will slow you down significantly. The only reason understeer is seen as bad is because it can only hurt the line you take around a corner, unlike oversteer where you can use to tighten the line closer to the inside of the corner.

You make "hurting your line around a corner" seem like its not all that bad.

It is!

Oversteer hurts the tires (im not talking about drifting).
In a race or even a street car, a loose backend keeps you from giving power to the car. Less power means slower car.

to add.

A car with controllable oversteer typically has a very good suspension setup. A very good suspension setup can be driven to not oversteer.

[Jecht]

You make "hurting your line around a corner" seem like its not all that bad.

It is!

Oversteer hurts the tires (im not talking about drifting).
In a race or even a street car, a loose backend keeps you from giving power to the car. Less power means slower car.

to add.

A car with controllable oversteer typically has a very good suspension setup. A very good suspension setup can be driven to not oversteer.

Well, understeer isn't bad for beginner drivers. It's easy enough to avoid, all you have to do is let off the gas. I wouldn't want a loose rear end on ANY car, but I would certainly love a car that is mostly neutral with some slight oversteer at the limit.

Just to confuse Blackshine some more: Nissan's 240sx is set up to understeer from the factory.

[EJ25RUN]

Well, understeer isn't bad for beginner drivers. It's easy enough to avoid, all you have to do is let off the gas. I wouldn't want a loose rear end on ANY car, but I would certainly love a car that is mostly neutral with some slight oversteer at the limit.

Just to confuse Blackshine some more: Nissan's 240sx is set up to understeer from the factory.

correct.... due to the fact manufactures know most people cant drive very well, most cars are designed to under steer

thanx for my 1500 rep point :goodjob:

[matthewAPM]

You make "hurting your line around a corner" seem like its not all that bad.

It is!

Oversteer hurts the tires (im not talking about drifting).
In a race or even a street car, a loose backend keeps you from giving power to the car. Less power means slower car.

to add.

A car with controllable oversteer typically has a very good suspension setup. A very good suspension setup can be driven to not oversteer.

correct. to much oversteer and you will overheat your tires. my car can be a oversteer freak or as neutral as can be depending how its driven. the setup is very good and i can make it do exactly what i want it to. this allows me to rotate the car into tighter corners but be very stable on sweepers.

there is a difference between slip angle or rotation and drifting. like Jecht said, it helps bring a car into the apex allowing you to have a faster entry to a corner.


So basicly, you're telling me that a FWD car is by no means capable of oversteer due to the drivetrain configuration?

I could possibly help you with your suspension set up, what's your specs front and rear and what's the average speed you do around a track? I'm not trying to be an ass, but honestly I try to help out anyone. Are you shallow enough not to listen or do you know everything? PM me your specs and we can converse there.

i never said it couldnt oversteer? i actually said it doesnt oversteer becuase of applying power...like you said it would. have you ever tried to do what your talking about? setup has nothing to do with it. no matter if its a stock honda or a FWD BTCC car, applying the power is not going to make a FWD car drift. explain how you make a FWD car throttle oversteer...

:lmfao: :lmfao: have YOU help me with my setup? why should i believe you could help setup my car when you sig says "Fear my insanely terrible driving habits" ? LMAO. why would I mess with something that works. i wouldnt let you touch my car if you paid me. you couldnt help sh!t. your a stupid mothafawka and couldnt tell someone the first thing about car setup or driving. you are stupid for trying to prove me and EJ25RUN wrong. idk who the hells been teaching you about handling characteristics, but they are wrong. give it up.

EJ25RUN and Jecht..reps

[.blank cd]

Allot of you guys are forgetting (ok most of you don't know) about Class II FWD touring cars from the mid to late 90's......

They can and have beaten RWD and AWD cars on the track and cost Formula 1 like budgets to make so they died out around the year 2000!

http://coronaexiv.hood.jp/exiv_sportivo/1996hattori_02.jpg+whatever im worth for posting that. Thank you. I vote FWD. I am a fan of traction. Drifting and "RWD fun" has its place on the track, but most of us dont see the track too much anyways. Someone posted that there was no snow in Atlanta, but there sure is ice.

[blackshine007]

correct. to much oversteer and you will overheat your tires. my car can be a oversteer freak or as neutral as can be depending how its driven. the setup is very good and i can make it do exactly what i want it to. this allows me to rotate the car into tighter corners but be very stable on sweepers.

there is a difference between slip angle or rotation and drifting. like Jecht said, it helps bring a car into the apex allowing you to have a faster entry to a corner.

i never said it couldnt oversteer? i actually said it doesnt oversteer becuase of applying power...like you said it would
I believe you said it right when will over steer when lifting off the throttle during a corner. I had it wrong. Most apologies.


. have you ever tried to do what your talking about? setup has nothing to do with it. no matter if its a stock honda or a FWD BTCC car, applying the power is not going to make a FWD car drift. explain how you make a FWD car throttle oversteer...
I wasn't trying to convince anyone that a FWD car can drift, just given the particular set up the back end can come out, which could've been an improper set up of suspension (rear zero camber and positive toe with stiffer springs/strut and sway bar and high tread wear tires instead of R compound tires) but with sticky tires up front. In the first vid, the civic was clearly pulling the e-brake. But drifting is drifting, just not in the traditional way.


:lmfao: :lmfao: have YOU help me with my setup? why should i believe you could help setup my car when you sig says "Fear my insanely terrible driving habits" ? LMAO. why would I mess with something that works. i wouldnt let you touch my car if you paid me. you couldnt help sh!t. your a stupid mothafawka and couldnt tell someone the first thing about car setup or driving. you are stupid for trying to prove me and EJ25RUN wrong. idk who the hells been teaching you about handling characteristics, but they are wrong. give it up.

I wouldn't go that far. I do have experience in suspensions. I'll be the positive one and say to each is own. I'll concieve and say that you made your point. My key words was "depending upon suspension set up" which should have included tires as well. But oh well, can't win them all, huh?

[Ran]

So basicly, you're telling me that a FWD car is by no means capable of oversteer due to the drivetrain configuration?I have a serious question. My Yaris hatcback had a tendency to swing the back end around instead of understeer. The tires would grip and refused to send me into an understeer situation. Probably due to my lack of power and torque. However the backend, with it's stiff-as-hell suspension setup and lack of rear weight, wouldn't hesistate to come swinging around and have my nose pointing at the inside ditch. It was easy to control, but it felt...awkward. Would this in anyway be considered oversteer or just rotation? :???:


As for which do I prefer between AWD, RWD, or FWD? First off, I don't have much experience with AWD so I'll omit it completely. I'd have to say it depends on what I'm wanting to do. 2/7 of the cars I've owned have been FWD and I've never had any problems with them. I found their characteristics more predicatible and easier to control. RWD has definitely been more fun in the long run. Being both at drift events and regular track events, the RWD cars have always been enjoyable. So again, I'm not particularly biased towards one or the other.

[EJ25RUN]

I have a serious question. My Yaris hatcback had a tendency to swing the back end around instead of understeer. The tires would grip and refused to send me into an understeer situation. Probably due to my lack of power and torque. However the backend, with it's stiff-as-hell suspension setup and lack of rear weight, wouldn't hesistate to come swinging around and have my nose pointing at the inside ditch. It was easy to control, but it felt...awkward. Would this in anyway be considered oversteer or just rotation? :???:


As for which do I prefer between AWD, RWD, or FWD? First off, I don't have much experience with AWD so I'll omit it completely. I'd have to say it depends on what I'm wanting to do. 2/7 of the cars I've owned have been FWD and I've never had any problems with them. I found their characteristics more predicatible and easier to control. RWD has definitely been more fun in the long run. Being both at drift events and regular track events, the RWD cars have always been enjoyable. So again, I'm not particularly biased towards one or the other.

Does the backend start to swing out under braking or does it step out when you get back on the power?

[matthewAPM]

I have a serious question. My Yaris hatcback had a tendency to swing the back end around instead of understeer. The tires would grip and refused to send me into an understeer situation. Probably due to my lack of power and torque. However the backend, with it's stiff-as-hell suspension setup and lack of rear weight, wouldn't hesistate to come swinging around and have my nose pointing at the inside ditch. It was easy to control, but it felt...awkward. Would this in anyway be considered oversteer or just rotation?





As for which do I prefer between AWD, RWD, or FWD? First off, I don't have much experience with AWD so I'll omit it completely. I'd have to say it depends on what I'm wanting to do. 2/7 of the cars I've owned have been FWD and I've never had any problems with them. I found their characteristics more predicatible and easier to control. RWD has definitely been more fun in the long run. Being both at drift events and regular track events, the RWD cars have always been enjoyable. So again, I'm not particularly biased towards one or the other.



The reason the yaris does that is because of its setup. What you are feeling is rotation. The reason you feel like its a lot of oversteer is because A. ur not use to it and B. no enough experience in a FWD car. There is a art to driving a FWD car fast. As stupid as it sounds, you steer the car with the gas and brake. coming into a turn, brake, lift towards the apex, then mid turn mat that gas pedel to the floor and thats a FWD turn in some what basic terms. The number one problem people have with driving a FWD car is they drive a RWD car and get use to when the car gets sideways, they steer out of the corner and apply the brakes or apply a little throttle depending on the car. In a FWD when the car oversteers, you are going to steer out of the corner then immediately into the corner applying the gas the entire time.



Yes, FWD can be just as competitive as a RWD car when there are class limitations making the cars equal, but when there are no limitations to drivetrain, RWD will always be used.


Blakeshine007, thank you for admiting you were wrong. Most people on IA wouldnt do that. You have gained my respect sir.

[Ran]

Does the backend start to swing out under braking or does it step out when you get back on the power?Doesn't really seem to matter from what I've noticed. If I was taking the corner at a high rate of speed, the whole backend would just swing around and then I was forced to correct/control the car with steering and throttle control.


The reason the yaris does that is because of its setup. What you are feeling is rotation. The reason you feel like its a lot of oversteer is because A. ur not use to it and B. no enough experience in a FWD car. There is a art to driving a FWD car fast. As stupid as it sounds, you steer the car with the gas and brake. coming into a turn, brake, lift towards the apex, then mid turn mat that gas pedel to the floor and thats a FWD turn in some what basic terms. The number one problem people have with driving a FWD car is they drive a RWD car and get use to when the car gets sideways, they steer out of the corner and apply the brakes or apply a little throttle depending on the car. In a FWD when the car oversteers, you are going to steer out of the corner then immediately into the corner applying the gas the entire time.Thanks for the info. The first time I drove the Yaris on a mountain, I was surprised when the backend came around and the frontend didn't understeer. I got used to it, but it never sat quite right with me. As you stated, I don't have enough experience with FWD cars. Too much drifting at Turner Field with my previous RWD cars. lol

Reps for the info. :goodjob:

[EJ25RUN]

Doesn't really seem to matter from what I've noticed. If I was taking the corner at a high rate of speed, the whole backend would just swing around and then I was forced to correct/control the car with steering and throttle control.

Thanks for the info. The first time I drove the Yaris on a mountain, I was surprised when the backend came around and the frontend didn't understeer. I got used to it, but it never sat quite right with me. As you stated, I don't have enough experience with FWD cars. Too much drifting at Turner Field with my previous RWD cars. lol

Reps for the info. :goodjob:

Do you have aftermarket wheel & Tires on it yet?

If not, i think you should get gripper and wider tires and some rims. It should help quiet a bit. You gotta remember Yaris weren't made to go around corners at any rate of speed.

[Ran]

Do you have aftermarket wheel & Tires on it yet?

If not, i think you should get gripper and wider tires and some rims. It should help quiet a bit.Suspension and wheels/tires were the first things to be done. Full TRD suspension setup (sways, shocks/struts, springs, ect...) coupled to 16x7 wheels and tires. I later swapped those wheels for some 17x7's since I stopped doing mountain runs.


You gotta remember Yaris weren't made to go around corners at any rate of speed.The Yaris actually has it's own racing cups in various Asian countries.

Also, I no longer have the Yaris. Just FYI.

[EJ25RUN]

Suspension and wheels/tires were the first things to be done. Full TRD suspension setup (sways, shocks/struts, springs, ect...) coupled to 16x7 wheels and tires. I later swapped those wheels for some 17x7's since I stopped doing mountain runs.

The Yaris actually has it's own racing cups in various Asian countries.

Also, I no longer have the Yaris. Just FYI.

I see...

i think with you adding the sway bars, you might have actually stiffened the suspension to far.

Here's the easiest way to explain what im trying to say.

F1 cars slid because the have absolutely NO body roll.

Your suspension might be so stiff that instead of naturally the weight transfer causing the car to get lower on on side, it has to instead push the car out for that weight to go somewhere.

[matthewAPM]

I see...

i think with you adding the sway bars, you might have actually stiffened the suspension to far.

Here's the easiest way to explain what im trying to say.

F1 cars slid because the have absolutely NO body roll.

Your suspension might be so stiff that instead of naturally the weight transfer causing the car to get lower on on side, it has to instead push the car out for that weight to go somewhere.

the chances of him have it to stiff are slim to none.

[EJ25RUN]

So for a F1 budget you would rather have a FWD honda than, say, an ACTUAL F1 car? I wonder which is faster... :rolleyes:

I would say this just PROVES the point that RWD is the way to go.

hold on a sec FC man.....

You do realize that in the years between 1995-2000, the British Touring car championship rivaled F1 in popularity? Why is this. It is till this day the best and most competitive racing ever. It was boxing on four wheels. That JTCC accord and Nissan Primera sit in the Musuems of the two brands because the cars were so great. Why not, Why not take the tech from F1 and throw it onto a FWD chassis. You've heard of racing improves the breed. Why can't F1 cars improve even simple Touring Cars.

Here's some examples. ~ Watch these Fcman!
Btcc compilation (http://youtube.com/watch?v=AFfcNvwTk_U)
Nigel Mansell gets a chance to drive a BTCC car (http://youtube.com/watch?v=YRz1zQTDNYk)
The Night at Snetterton Pt.1 (http://youtube.com/watch?v=6FfdRd-TZvQ)
The Night at Snetterton Pt.2 (http://youtube.com/watch?v=bq2nlsvwRoU&feature=related)
The Night at Snetterton Pt.3 (http://youtube.com/watch?v=NSk4MC_VO7c&feature=related)

[EJ25RUN]

the chances of him have it to stiff are slim to none.

RAN is a girl:)

[matthewAPM]

95-00 BTCC will go in history as the greatest racing seasons ever. period

alot of technology from F1 IS put into touring/GT cars....

[Ran]

RAN is a girl:)Um...no?

[matthewAPM]

RAN is a girl:)
the chances of IT having the car to stiff is slim to none. :lmfao: JK man

[Ran]

the chances of IT having the car to stiff is slim to none.Okay, now you're just being an @sshole. :lmao:

[matthewAPM]

Okay, now you're just being an @sshole. :lmao:

lol. jk man. so what you driving now?

[Ran]

lol. jk man. so what you driving now?A big, heavy, non-handling, 300 horsepower, Mustang GT. Har har. *dip spit*

Seriously

[EJ25RUN]

the chances of IT having the car to stiff is slim to none. :lmfao: JK man

i think driving it through a turn is really the only way to find out. I don't typically diagnose steering issues on a certain car through posts unless i can put it through a turn.

[Nick Jeezy]

im a fan of rwd. awd pulls pretty cool when it has power, rwd ftw

[matthewAPM]

A big, heavy, non-handling, 300 horsepower, Mustang GT. Har har. *dip spit*

Seriously

those things can handle amazing. really. dont let the solid rear turn you away. i know alot of mustangs that are extremely fast and not because of the power.

for example, the koni challenge GS mustangs run right with the M3's and prosches.

[Tech5]

RWD FTW

[Ran]

those things can handle amazing. really. dont let the solid rear turn you away. i know alot of mustangs that are extremely fast and not because of the power.

for example, the koni challenge GS mustangs run right with the M3's and prosches.Oh yeah, I know. Nemesis on here has the Steeda setup on his Stang and it handles awesomely. I'll probably wind up doing something similar. Maybe the Ford Racing Track Performance Package.

[EJ25RUN]

for example, the koni challenge GS mustangs run right with the M3's and prosches.

ahh.....the 5.0-liter Cammer ‘R50’ V-8 helps with that.

but just like you said matt, watching those proved to me how stout that car really is. I was so sad to see the IRS 03 cobra go, but i feel that this new body could outrun it.

That doesn't mean Ford shouldn't consider IRS in the current stangs.

http://www.allfordmustangs.com/artman/uploads/10871_1_lg.jpg

[sk8erfreak]

RWD= you the man*
AWD= makin some $$
FWD= little highschool boy...

[sk8erfreak]

and, I like cheese tacos...

[Brian*]

I love all 3, but I have to go with RWD* A good driving car is just that, no matter if its awd fwd or rwd... sk8frk?? WTF lol