B20 go BOOM- Carnage inside!

[Batlground]

Some of you may remember the B20 Del Sol VTEC we did a turbo kit on a few months back.

When he came to me he said he had his engine built by PLACE RACING out in california about 6 years ago. He said it had aftermarket rods and pistons and valvesprings an retainers.

In his consultation i informed him that a stock sleeve b20 is pretty weak that anything over 10psi i dont recommend for longevity reasons. After a few more questions i asked what compression his engine was, he stated it was 10:1. After a quick compression and leakdown to verify the motor was in good shape, and it was, the turbo kit install began.

I went with a GT2860RS ball bearing turbo using a Treadstone FMIC and manifold. We made the downpipe, Tial was enlisted for BOV and Wastegate duties.

At 9psi the car made an outstanding 285whp! I was amazed at the power, and after some road tuning , we let the car go.

The customer has had the car for around 5months now, when i get a call that the car wont turn over. like itll turn but not fire up.

I instruct him to tow the car and ill look at it. Here is what we found after a compression test yielded less than stellar results:
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c21/Vteckidd/DSC05696.jpg
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c21/Vteckidd/DSC05697.jpg

Cracked sleeve on cylinder 2+3. Not that surprising, i figured with the cold weather it may have spiked when he wasnt paying attention or something.

Then i took a second glance, LOOK AT THE DOME ON THOSE PISTONS! That is NOT a 10:1 piston! thats more like a 12:1+ LOL So when they built his engine they told him one thing then put super high compression pistons in it.

So he was running 9psi of boost on a 12:1 motor for 5 months ! I cant believe it lasted that long! Funny thing is, there are NO signs of detonation on the plugs or the pistons. It was just simple cylinder pressure that caused the sleeve to fail.

Oh well, just thought id share, RIP B20 Block.

Golden Eagle is sending me a TURBO shortblock as we speak so we can reinstall and turn the boost up for 350whp :goodjob:

[The BUCKY]

lol crazy it lasted that long

[LQQKITZME]

wow thats crazy lol

[speedminded]

High compression turbos on pump gas...oops :tongue:

[speedminded]

Coulda been worse! lol...

http://www.sdsefi.com/piston17.jpg

[DarKStaR]

before i even read the bottom, something was signaling to me that something looked a little funny when i read the 10:1 part, then i read the bottom and bam! no wonder....

[EmminoDaGreat]

high comp + boost = :(

[DamnDisLaOsBoY]

that sucks big time!

[BTLFED]

I saw 10:1. Then I scrolled down. Then I saw the pistons. Then I wondered if it had an inch thick head gasket.

Then I LOL'ed.

[NAIZBST]

nice I should have done that with my car

[BTLFED]

nice I should have done that with my car

What? Blew it up? lol

[NAIZBST]

no put a turbo kit on my 12:1

[BTLFED]

no put a turbo kit on my 12:1

Turbo the Fit!

[NAIZBST]

lol, nahhh I don't want to do that

[BTLFED]

lol, nahhh I don't want to do that

boo :hiss: :lmfao:

[turbolaser6]

Lasted that long at 9 psi?

[NAIZBST]

boo :hiss: :lmfao:


turbo your 4 runner

[green91]

Wow i bet the throttle response was GREAT on that thing while it lasted!

[SiRed94]

no comment

[Batlground]

Wow i bet the throttle response was GREAT on that thing while it lasted!
it was crazy fast lol. It hit full boost at like 2000rpms, it would roast the tires through 4th gear.

like i said, i cant believe it lasted this long. I wonder how it would have been if he had a sleved block.

[Master Shake]

damn suprised it didn't blow the sleeves out completely.

[Da_unknown]

wow...

[Tracy]

I felt the crack....tee hee

[BLK JDM]

I say sleeve it and keep it 12.1!!

[YakuzaCiviC]

it was crazy fast lol. It hit full boost at like 2000rpms, it would roast the tires through 4th gear.

like i said, i cant believe it lasted this long. I wonder how it would have been if he had a sleved block.

Interesting thought... :goodjob:

[patrick4588]

that sounds like a pretty cool street car. too bad it blew, i know the feelinghttp://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n5/patrick4588/brokecppistons.jpg

[Paree4g63]

the owner of that car should've gotten some kinda of compensation for having the wrong stuff put into his car. that compressions too high for a turbo! haha It probably was fast, but didnt last:(

[Batlground]

The company he went through is long out of business

Any old skool EF owner remembers PLACE RACING

[bRiAnMcIvIcS]

Post up the Dyno once you guys get the motor resleeved and rebuilt. 9.5 c/r would be perfect, right? The owner should look into the gt2871r.

[Batlground]

hes not trying to make big power, 350wp and hes fine, the 2860rs will be good for thta

[BTLFED]

turbo your 4 runner

I'd do the TRD Supercharger if I had the money. :ninja:

[BTLFED]

Any old skool EF owner remembers PLACE RACING

And their horrid WELD IN B Series mounts for the EF. THAT'S old school lol

[green91]

I'd do the TRD Supercharger if I had the money. :ninja:


Ive put on several.. save your money and spend it elsewhere lol.

[green91]

like... your CRX

[BTLFED]

Ive put on several.. save your money and spend it elsewhere lol.

There is a guy on my 4Runner forum that makes roughly 300whp with one & supporting mods. That is a quick Runner LOL

Don't worry about my CRX. :ninja:

[all-mota]

I say sleeve it and keep it 12.1!!


hell yeah throw some good plugs in it a conservative tune incase he gets some bad gas and let it roll 12:1

sell him a j&s knock sensor with built in timing retard. lol that ***** will rip.

[TheChosenOne]

So let me get this straight... High compression turbo builds can be done???:D

I always wondered why tubo build would try to have lower compression ratios when all motor builds yeild more hp with higher compression ratios. Figuratively speaking, if the walls and combustion threshold could take it, high compression turbo builds would spool faster?

[GAtegs]

I would have expected a 12:1 B20/VTEC to make a bit over 300 @ 9 psi, not 285.

[koukis14]

So let me get this straight... High compression turbo builds can be done???:D

I always wondered why tubo build would try to have lower compression ratios when all motor builds yeild more hp with higher compression ratios. Figuratively speaking, if the walls and combustion threshold could take it, high compression turbo builds would spool faster?


dude really?

[TheChosenOne]

dude really?
Lol. Yes, Dude, really. ;)

I don't know that much about boost. That's why I asked. Sooo... can u explain why? I really don't feel like getting flamed, so if you could explain, then by all means go ahead, but if not then keep it moving, Partner!

[koukis14]

Lol. Yes, Dude, really. ;)

I don't know that much about boost. That's why I asked. Sooo... can u explain why? I really don't feel like getting flamed, so if you could explain, then by all means go ahead, but if not then keep it moving, Partner!

Engines run off of controlling explosions, thousands of them a minute. The more air and fuel the bigger the bang, the more power you make. In an N/A motor you are not forcing air into the motor so the more you squeeze what air and fuel you have(compression ratio) the more powerfull the "bang". With forced induction(turbo/supercharging) you are forcing air in and with more fuel to compensate and hit that magical 14.7 - 1 a/f ration you make a bigger bang.

With a high compression N/A motor or a lower compression forced induction motor you have to reinforce internal engine parts to compensate with the extreme conditions. If you mix both of these together you will make huge power.......but not for long. Example, Top Fuel dragsters have a 12.1 compression ration and a supercharger bigger than most Honda engines.....those motors make over 8000 yes eight thousadn hp, are rebuilt after every 4.5 second pass.

Tuning also plays probably the biggest roll making a high comp motor last. There are high compression forced induction cars running around......mostly S2000s. If you do not run extreme amounts of boost and have someone tuning it that knows what they are doing......Battleground.....they will last for a while. It is just safer, easier, and cheaper to run one or the other...not both.

[TheChosenOne]

Engines run off of controlling explosions, thousands of them a minute. The more air and fuel the bigger the bang, the more power you make. In an N/A motor you are not forcing air into the motor so the more you squeeze what air and fuel you have(compression ratio) the more powerfull the "bang". With forced induction(turbo/supercharging) you are forcing air in and with more fuel to compensate and hit that magical 14.7 - 1 a/f ration you make a bigger bang.

With a high compression N/A motor or a lower compression forced induction motor you have to reinforce internal engine parts to compensate with the extreme conditions. If you mix both of these together you will make huge power.......but not for long. Example, Top Fuel dragsters have a 12.1 compression ration and a supercharger bigger than most Honda engines.....those motors make over 8000 yes eight thousadn hp, are rebuilt after every 4.5 second pass.

Tuning also plays probably the biggest roll making a high comp motor last. There are high compression forced induction cars running around......mostly S2000s. If you do not run extreme amounts of boost and have someone tuning it that knows what they are doing......Battleground.....they will last for a while. It is just safer, easier, and cheaper to run one or the other...not both.
Thanks Mang! +1. BTW, what is the compressionn ratio of a s2000?

[koukis14]

Thanks Mang! +1. BTW, what is the compressionn ratio of a s2000?

Off the top of my head 11.5 to 1 but I am not sure.

[fucksohc]

^ it is 11.5:1

[GTScoob]

Lol. Yes, Dude, really. ;)

I don't know that much about boost. That's why I asked. Sooo... can u explain why? I really don't feel like getting flamed, so if you could explain, then by all means go ahead, but if not then keep it moving, Partner!
Well basically most turbo motors run low compression internals so they can run lots of boost (figure 15+ psi). In the case of most turbo kits for originally NA motors they limit boost to 7psi but make the same amount of power. High boost and high compression can work if you've got race gas or even better, meth injection to fight off detonation. You'd also need bitching cylinder reinforcement and strong pistons.

When doing a big $$ build you'll figure in your turbo, the ideal operating boost for it and set your CR around that. Higher CR will spool the turbo quicker and have more off-boost response but may not last as long. Lower CR will be opposite.

[Annihilation]

Could you ask him about the block..... i need something to use for a mockup with this stroker kit before i do it to a good block....lol oh also the pistons PM ME

[BABY J]

Hard to believe that motor was not detonating --- crazy!! LOL.

[Kaiser]

Seeing and reading this really makes me want to build up a BMW 2.5l Straight Six from the mid 90's at stock compression with full reinforcement and run about 10psi, and see what it's like. 10psi with a big front mount, good tune, and the roughly 12:1 of a stock BMW motor should be tons of fun. (While it lasts) Though I do wonder if there's any way you could really make the car last a bit longer without resorting to Meth or having to constantly run race gas or a weaker tune. Any reasonable suggestions? (Obviously not planning to go out and do this tommorow, just thinking about it.)

[dynoman14]

Just some food for thought for all of you engine builders out there. Prior to hanging a turbo on an engine, you probably need to do a compression test on it to determine the approximate compression ratio, and then a simple leak down test to see if the engine is sealed up enough to handle additional cylinder pressure.

Kinda like checking your blood pressure and cholesterol before you go out and run a marathon.

Tools cost about $100 at Harbor Freight and will save you thousands on just a couple engines.

As far as compression goes, you can run high CR and high boost, you just have to chose your parts accordingly. Perfect pistons, perfect heads and awesome fuel, multi stage timing retard and big ass cams.

Buddy Ingersol made 3500+hp / 100psi out of a V-6 in the 70's and NHRA outlawed his $hit and made him go home, cause all the rest of the Pro-Stock geniuses could not get within 200ft of him.

How do you think Don Nase Jr. runs 6.30's / 200+ in a 1.8L Turd Chevy ECOTEC engine ???

Out,
Dynoman14

[dynoman14]

Didn't mean to be a thread killer but wanted to post up some info to get you guys thinking, kinda like dude making glass in Breaking Bad, you have to follow the science in anything.

All engines are is fuel driven air pumps, how fast you want to go is proportional to how much fuel you can deliver, burn and exhaust...pretty simple really.

Suck, Squish, Bang, Blow...that's all

Looking to bring some Alky burners to the street real soon.

Out,
DM14

[Black R]

Ive put on several.. save your money and spend it elsewhere lol.


TURBO the 4-runner!

[Black R]

I would have expected a 12:1 B20/VTEC to make a bit over 300 @ 9 psi, not 285.


He probably had to pull a ****load of timing....

I'm surprised Dan didn't scratch his head when tuning that thing like "why do I have to pull THIS MUCH TIMING" to prevent detonation and this ***** is still making 285whp?"

[b20turbohatc]

i got an jdm b20b with a built ls head on 15psi an it doesnt smoke or anything no signs of damage can someone tell me if the jdm ones are some what diff