Ready to have your wages garnished?

[tony]

Vote Billary on tuesday.

WASHINGTON (AP) - Democrat Hillary Rodham Clinton said Sunday she might be willing to have workers' wages garnisheed if they refuse to buy health insurance to achieve coverage for all Americans.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jld3VILFDbEY6uciu_lp_YgBnGqwD8UJ034O1

[Alan®]

what a crazy socialist *****

[Slow Motion]

Vote Billary on tuesday.

WASHINGTON (AP) - Democrat Hillary Rodham Clinton said Sunday she might be willing to have workers' wages garnisheed if they refuse to buy health insurance to achieve coverage for all Americans.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jld3VILFDbEY6uciu_lp_YgBnGqwD8UJ034O1

What the phuck.....phuck hillarious clinton she is a dik sucin muhphuckin cun't .....i wish a bish would.(no not really)

[Schugg]

whats the big fukin deal, get life/health insurance you dead beat phucks!

[Thighs]

you think if healthcare was paid for by taxes it would be any different? dont be fooled by bad wording. income tax = wage garnish.

[Slow Motion]

whats the big fukin deal, get life/health insurance you dead beat phucks!

What if I don't want it...that doesn't make me a dead beat ppl with comment like that are one **** hair away from suckin a dictators ****........Free country= no insurance if i don't want it. Taxes don't pay for health insurance though.

And for those with a what if .......there is no what if in real life.

[Evil Goat]

socialized medicine is ftl

[BuBBa DRiFT]

lol @ democrats

[Thighs]

What if I don't want it...that doesn't make me a dead beat ppl with comment like that are one **** hair away from suckin a dictators ****........Free country= no insurance if i don't want it. Taxes don't pay for health insurance though.

not right now they dont, but i HAVE heard talk about govt healthcare, which is a good idea. it may be "free" for us, but its not ACTUALLY free. taxes will go up to pay for it. may not be a big increase but it will happen. the money has to come from somewhere.

correct me if im wrong though.

[Schugg]

What if I don't want it...that doesn't make me a dead beat ppl with comment like that are one **** hair away from suckin a dictators ****........Free country= no insurance if i don't want it. Taxes don't pay for health insurance though.

And for those with a what if .......there is no what if in real life.

then when you get your arm chopped off and cant fix it, your loss. being i am the person with a comment like that, ill be the first to tell you im not one **** hair away form sucking any dictators ****. i could care less about voting or caring about any political BS. but im also not the one whos going to complain when so and so makes a law i dont like. if i cared i would vote. maybe youll come to realize nothing in life is free, ecspecially in this country. some have it good but no one is near freedom

[Evil Goat]

not right now they dont, but i HAVE heard talk about govt healthcare, which is a good idea. it may be "free" for us, but its not ACTUALLY free. taxes will go up to pay for it. may not be a big increase but it will happen. the money has to come from somewhere.

correct me if im wrong though.


the government, in now way, shape, form, or fashion, should have any say so in whether or not i have healthcare

furthermore, socialized medicine sucks....i cant see why they cant look at the places, such as canada, england, etc who have socialized medicine, see how ****ed up it is, and not say this is some bull****....there are reports of people in london pulling their own ****ing teeth out b/c they cant get an appointment to see a dentist over there, people in canada dying while waiting for a mri that would've saved their lives, and mri that here in the states takes minutes to order, and a few days at the most to get done if its not life threatening....we by far have the best healthcare in the world, and the people who dont have it either choose not to, or are too stupid to realize they could have it with a private company....there are companies out there that insure people with very good rates, people are just too stupid, or too lazy to find them.

[Thighs]

the government, in now way, shape, form, or fashion, should have any say so in whether or not i have healthcare

furthermore, socialized medicine sucks....i cant see why they cant look at the places, such as canada, england, etc who have socialized medicine, see how ****ed up it is, and not say this is some bull****....there are reports of people in london pulling their own ****ing teeth out b/c they cant get an appointment to see a dentist over there, people in canada dying while waiting for a mri that would've saved their lives, and mri that here in the states takes minutes to order, and a few days at the most to get done if its not life threatening....we by far have the best healthcare in the world, and the people who dont have it either choose not to, or are too stupid to realize they could have it with a private company....there are companies out there that insure people with very good rates, people are just too stupid, or too lazy to find them.

thats agood point. both sides are right and worng in certain ways, i guess its all up to your p.o.v. IMO, id rather have my insurance automatically paid for. ****, id rather have all my bills paid automatically.

[tony]

So.. just like Social Security of which we will probably never reap the benefits of, its okay to force wage garnishments on those that work while those who do not get the reward? Interesting..

[Alan®]

i will respond to all this in a bit. football now politics later.

[green91]

she is loco! since its obvious ron paul wont get the nomination i really wish he would switch to independent, then he could get more press time and we would actually have a good option.

[Evil Goat]

thats agood point. both sides are right and worng in certain ways, i guess its all up to your p.o.v. IMO, id rather have my insurance automatically paid for. ****, id rather have all my bills paid automatically.


but would you sacrifice or chance your wellbeing on the fact that its "paid for" (if you really want to call it that, we all know nothings free....taxes would rise to offset the cost)



So.. just like Social Security of which we will probably never reap the benefits of, its okay to force wage garnishments on those that work while those who do not get the reward? Interesting..


exactly....401k/stocks are where it's at

[Slow Motion]

then when you get your arm chopped off and cant fix it, your loss. being i am the person with a comment like that, ill be the first to tell you im not one **** hair away form sucking any dictators ****. i could care less about voting or caring about any political BS. but im also not the one whos going to complain when so and so makes a law i dont like. if i cared i would vote. maybe youll come to realize nothing in life is free, ecspecially in this country. some have it good but no one is near freedom

HYPOTHETICAL BS.....WHEN I GET MY ARM CHOPPED OFF I CAN'T FIX IT. FIRST OF ALL IF YOU EVER HAVE SOMETHING CHOPPED OFF AND IT WAS AN ACCIDENT MORE THAN LIKELY YOU HAVE ALREADY LOST THAT LIMB. EITHER IT WILL BE REJECTED BY YOUR BODY AND WILL NOT HEAL OR IT CAN'T BE FIXED. SO EITHER WAY YOUR PHUCKED. AND I VOTE SO I CARE WHAT SOME BISH WANTS TO DO WITH MY TAXES. HEALTHCARE SHOULD BE AFFORDABLE NOT MANDATORY.

[Elbow]

I'm REALLLLYYYY hoping Bush is re-elected

[Alan®]

Ok here's what I think. I highly doubt that congress or the supreme court would really let this happen as I see it, it amounts the heavy tax burden's put on the colonies back before the war of independence. A free nation is just that a free nation. Where you are free to do what you want so long as you abide by certian rules which I have never really found to be too extreme basically all comon sense stuff that in general out there to protect people and their property.A free nation is not a place where you are told you can do what ever you want but you HAVE TO buy this or else But what this amounts to is unconstituitional action. What I think is really funny is that this is basically what John McCain has been criticizing Mitt Romney for, for the past few weeks when really that's not what he said. Same with the issue that Mitt Romney proposed that we have timetables for withdrawl when he skewed the quote. I don't believe that Government controlled health care can work. it has been proven in other countire's that it really doesn't work and add in the fact that every health care system that Sen. Clinton has touched usually ends up being worse then when it first started doesn't exactly help her case.

[BiH1320]

What if I don't want it...that doesn't make me a dead beat ppl with comment like that are one **** hair away from suckin a dictators ****........Free country= no insurance if i don't want it. Taxes don't pay for health insurance though.

And for those with a what if .......there is no what if in real life.





This was ONCE a free country.. But not no more.. :no:

[1000cckiller]

whats the big fukin deal, get life/health insurance you dead beat phucks!x2, I totally agree. How can you get mad at her, she is trying to help some of you dumbasses from people who skip out on medical bills. Think about how many people a year, skip out on medical bill and your tax dollars pay for it.

[RISKYB]

thats why she nor obama ned to be in the whitehouse, i see nothing more that power hungry people ready to drive this country the rest of the way down

[Evil Goat]

x2, I totally agree. How can you get mad at her, she is trying to help some of you dumbasses from people who skip out on medical bills. Think about how many people a year, skip out on medical bill and your tax dollars pay for it.


hospitals and physicians write off a portion of unpaid medical bills as charity/unpaid debt on their taxes each year....the rest is turned over to collections, which in turn makes the prices of medical procedures go up, prices on insurance go up, deductibles, etc.....point im getting at is there may be a minimal amount of your tax dollars that has anything to do with medical bills

so what you're saying is you would rather pay more taxes (b/c youre not going to get some kind of magical credit b/c hospitals dont have to write off losses now) for a medical system that has been proven inferior to ours, a system where your mother could wait 6 months or more for an mri to detect breast cancer while the cancer spreads and kills her, the mri she could get here in minutes.....seems like an obvious choice to me....but its people who dont educate themselves on the up's and down's of things like this that will cause this country to drive itself into the ground

[1000cckiller]

hospitals and physicians write off a portion of unpaid medical bills as charity/unpaid debt on their taxes each year....the rest is turned over to collections, which in turn makes the prices of medical procedures go up, prices on insurance go up, deductibles, etc.....point im getting at is there may be a minimal amount of your tax dollars that has anything to do with medical bills

so what you're saying is you would rather pay more taxes (b/c youre not going to get some kind of magical credit b/c hospitals dont have to write off losses now) for a medical system that has been proven inferior to ours, a system where your mother could wait 6 months or more for an mri to detect breast cancer while the cancer spreads and kills her, the mri she could get here in minutes.....seems like an obvious choice to me....but its people who dont educate themselves on the up's and down's of things like this that will cause this country to drive itself into the groundOne we are going to pay for it one way or another. Things that you think you won't pay for, believe we are paying for it somewhere else. There is a back door to every bill that is passed, it has always been that way and will alway be that way. Also what if my mom can't pay for that treatment, do you want to be the one that pays for it?

[Evil Goat]

i think you're missing the boat man....let me break it down for you....

scenario one....with current healthcare standards...

under EMTALA (look it up) you mother, regardless if she has insurance or the ability to pay a bill can go to an e.r.(or most private physicians that accept medicaid/medicare) for treatment, they find the lump she describes, treats her with a non surgical procedure, or lets say she has a mastectomy done....lets just say to the tune of $100k

the hospital writes off a portion as charity, sends the rest to collections and my insurance premiums go up b/c your mom cant pay for her medical care and the hospitals have to charge more to make up for that loss


scenario 2, and ill use canada as an example since thats what hillary wants to model us after, the average person pays around $1200 in taxes yearly for access to this high and mighty form of nationwide insurance (regardless of age)....so right off the bat with my family alone im spending in the area of $3600 (versus the $18xx or so i pay now) your mom, b/c shes apparently poor or jobless doesnt front anything (which is why they want socialized medicine to be manditory, so that i pay the portion that is unpaid by the jobless and worthless) so now she finds a lump, but the search is on for a speciliast who will see her....it takes 4-5 months to finally get an appointment, then another 4-5 months to have an appointment for an mri done, and by that time the cancer has spread and she dies (go to google and search "why socialized medicine doesnt work" and spend a day or 10 reading cases where people have died b/c hospitals are full and turn away patients and people die waiting on treatment)

so yes, the way the system is now, the minimal amount of my taxes that may or may not go to helping pay unpaid medical bills i would be happy to help front the bill to keep your mother alive (which just isn't true, there is no government bail out for hospitals will owed debts - thats what medicaid/medicare is for, if you cant afford it yourself you already get it free and i pay for that as it is)

[chrisdavis]

I wonder how this would affect families were one spouse pays for family coverage.

[1000cckiller]

i think you're missing the boat man....let me break it down for you....

scenario one....with current healthcare standards...

under EMTALA (look it up) you mother, regardless if she has insurance or the ability to pay a bill can go to an e.r.(or most private physicians that accept medicaid/medicare) for treatment, they find the lump she describes, treats her with a non surgical procedure, or lets say she has a mastectomy done....lets just say to the tune of $100k

the hospital writes off a portion as charity, sends the rest to collections and my insurance premiums go up b/c your mom cant pay for her medical care and the hospitals have to charge more to make up for that loss


scenario 2, and ill use canada as an example since thats what hillary wants to model us after, the average person pays around $1200 in taxes yearly for access to this high and mighty form of nationwide insurance (regardless of age)....so right off the bat with my family alone im spending in the area of $3600 (versus the $18xx or so i pay now) your mom, b/c shes apparently poor or jobless doesnt front anything (which is why they want socialized medicine to be manditory, so that i pay the portion that is unpaid by the jobless and worthless) so now she finds a lump, but the search is on for a speciliast who will see her....it takes 4-5 months to finally get an appointment, then another 4-5 months to have an appointment for an mri done, and by that time the cancer has spread and she dies (go to google and search "why socialized medicine doesnt work" and spend a day or 10 reading cases where people have died b/c hospitals are full and turn away patients and people die waiting on treatment)

so yes, the way the system is now, the minimal amount of my taxes that may or may not go to helping pay unpaid medical bills i would be happy to help front the bill to keep your mother alive (which just isn't true, there is no government bail out for hospitals will owed debts - thats what medicaid/medicare is for, if you cant afford it yourself you already get it free and i pay for that as it is)Ok, your statement is true to a point. You don't get my point. Yes one we already pay for medicare, with he bill we won't pay for that anymore. Yes will will have to pay more and that is understandable, but you will have insurance. Think about how many people die every year because they don't have health insurance. That why I say there is a back door to everything, because yeah we may help the few we can now right when they come in, but it is at a cost to us. Prime example Grady hospital is in debt, why? Because they have all these people that come in without insurance and they fix them up. So would you rather these people pay where a hospital can stay open, or would you rather them not pay and the hospital has to shut down. That is the problem Grady was faced with and still is. No Bill is bullet proof, and someone will always loose. We don't know how much the bill would us, so until I saw what would be our cost I can't make a desicion. Our heatlh care system isn't great now, maybe somewhere and somehow it will get better soon. I do agree with some of your points though.

Just read this link for me:
http://cthealth.server101.com/the_case_for_universal_health_care_in_the_united_s tates.htm

[Tracy]

I agree with socialized medical care :)

[1000cckiller]

I agree with socialized medical care :)x2, have you read the link.

[Tracy]

x2, have you read the link.Read it before.

[Jimmy B]

Republicans FTW (please dear God have one voted in)

[1000cckiller]

Republicans FTW (please dear God have one voted in)please read the damn link.

[R3RUN]

Lol, garnishing wages during a recession. Brilliant ****ing idea. I am really starting to believe that Hillary would usher in the apocalypse if she wins.

[tony]

Universal healthcare is not the same as mandated coverage

[Evil Goat]

I agree with socialized medical care :)


move to canada if it's so great, for every reason you can come up with, which i would guess to be just one (omg so everyone can like have insurance and stuff), i can give you 10 more why it sucks

doesnt matter to me, if we go to a socialized medical coverage i will be purchasing my own private insurance

ive read the link before, tell me who did the study, and where they get their basis from, you don't know, you're just as bad as billy bob listening to cnn or fox and basing their conclusions off of what they see on tv....when you find out who does the study, and how much of a b.s. study that actually was then come back and talk....ill have to look it up now, but ive seen this study, and it was way off in its accuracy


Universal healthcare is not the same as mandated coverage

this is true

[NevrNufTorq]

I agree with socialized medical care :)

never woulda thought i would hear this from you. you, dan, myself, and every other small bus owner in the usa will be the one's really hurting by this in the end. the government can do nothing well and most importantly nothing cheap!!! you and i both ride the roads. how do you like state highways and the federal interstate system? bumpity, bumpity, bumpity!!! if they cant keep the roadways free from potholes and such, how in the world can they FIX an expensive, and highly technical field like medicine?!?! they cant, prices will go thru the roof, then our taxes will go up to cover it, then the quality of care will go down cause evryone will fuss about their taxes. then doctors and nurses will stop goin to school to be doctors and nurses because they cant make a decent living..........

now, on that note, i'm not saying we have a perfect health system, and that it doesnt need alot of help. but, the government cant do anything w/o costing us, the taxpayer, alot of money!! :2cents:

[Jimmy B]

never woulda thought i would hear this from you. you, dan, myself, and every other small bus owner in the usa will be the one's really hurting by this in the end. :2cents:

as a small buis owner myself, i cant agree more.. there are times in the year where i am slow, and taking the little money i bring in away, would hurt me alot during those times

[Jimmy B]

please read the damn link.

i did, your point? i still would rather ANY of the republicians than hillary or obama

[1000cckiller]

i did, your point? i still would rather ANY of the republicians than hillary or obama :no:

[Tracy]

I don't feel like arguing right now, but I'm sure I will soon. I'm not agreeing with the way it is being proposed to be paid for. I think the people who donate the $50 million dollars for the presidency campaigns should get in on paying for it :)

[Evil Goat]

I don't feel like arguing right now, but I'm sure I will soon.


make sure you google and bring some good facts to the table ;)

[Tracy]

make sure you google and bring some good facts to the table ;)

Make sure you don't come at me like that just because you don't agree with it. I'm not really the one. I don't have to google to have an opinion, bud ;) To be honest, I don't keep up with any of the political bullsh.it because it's all just that...bullsh.it. I don't agree with what any of them have to say.

[R3RUN]

Make sure you don't come at me like that just because you don't agree with it. I'm not really the one. I don't have to google to have an opinion, bud ;) To be honest, I don't keep up with any of the political bullsh.it because it's all just that...bullsh.it. I don't agree with what any of them have to say.
Hahaha, I agree. I just vote for whichever person I think sucks the least.

[Tracy]

Hahaha, I agree. I just vote for whichever person I think sucks the least.

If anyone wants to know the truth about how I feel about any of it (which I'm sure you don't but f.uck it)...when they start using the popular vote and my vote actually counts...I'll vote. When it doesn't cost $50 million to run a campaign, I'll vote. Until then it's all just corrupt bullsh.it that my vote isn't going to change. I don't contribute/pay off enough to the rich people running this country to actually have a say.

[GirlieZ]

-1 on canidates proposing to make healthcare a goverment entity. screwing with my money and my profession ftl.

[Evil Goat]

If anyone wants to know the truth about how I feel about any of it (which I'm sure you don't but f.uck it)...when they start using the popular vote and my vote actually counts...I'll vote. When it doesn't cost $50 million to run a campaign, I'll vote. Until then it's all just corrupt bullsh.it that my vote isn't going to change. I don't contribute/pay off enough to the rich people running this country to actually have a say.


then why bother having an opinion at all?

[Tracy]

then why bother having an opinion at all?What? I'm not sure what you are asking. I have an opinion because I am human and most humans have one on everything unless they are in a coma? Does that make you feel better?

[tony]

What? I'm not sure what you are asking. I have an opinion because I am human and most humans have one on everything unless they are in a coma? Does that make you feel better?

I think what he is trying to ask is if you will not participate in the election process then why have an opinion on policies. No offense to you but I do think its a valid question, it is the responsibility of the people to vote. In the grand scheme of things your vote does matter and a "popular vote" majority rule is quite dangerous. Most are not willing to get out and educate theirselves on the issues or think critically. Otherwise you stand at the side and let politicians continue to make policies that dictate how you live your life.

[Tracy]

I think what he is trying to ask is if you will not participate in the election process then why have an opinion on policies. No offense to you but I do think its a valid question, it is the responsibility of the people to vote. In the grand scheme of things your vote does matter and a "popular vote" majority rule is quite dangerous. Most are not willing to get out and educate theirselves on the issues or think critically. Otherwise you stand at the side and let politicians continue to make policies that dictate how you live your life.

Like I said, this is not something I feel like getting into a 12 page paragraph argument on. I have had enough face to face discussions about it in the past few weeks to make me puke. I'll see if I can put my view simply enough to get my feeling across without pissing off MR org. I do watch the news and I do read magazines and the Internet. I'm not ignorant to the candidates positions. That's not to say that I completely sure of their positions because they aren't even sure of their positions. I watched CNN last night and had to change the channel because they can't get what they stand for straight..so how am I supposed to? I may not be able to debate at the Iowa caucus, but I did watch it :) (along with other scattered televised events). I also went to college and took Political Science just like most people who went to college did. The president doesn't run sh.it around here. Sure he has the right to veto and can make SOME executive decisions...but they are a pawn of the cabinet...of which are APPOINTED and not voted in by me or you...but voted on by the Senate....WHO REALLY RUN ****. So everyone makes a big deal out of voting for president, when they should really focus on who they vote into becoming a judge since they are the ones who become members of the Senate a lot of the time :)

You know what? This is too long already and I can see it getting 12 paragraphs longer if I keep on. I think medical care should be socialized. I also think that there should be less tax breaks for multi-millionaire companies so that their taxes can be applied to things like socialized medical care and higher education...rather than them applying their extra money to the presidential campaigns that costs $50 million dollars each (in other words paying off officials essentially). I think that every candidate should be given an equal budget by the gov't that is taken from million dollar company taxes.

Ok so there is a little of my stance. Remind me not to post in threads like this again :)

P.S. If it's our responsibility to vote...then make it illegal to not vote. I'll vote for that. Oh yea, I know there are a million /reasons excuses why that can't or will never happen. It basically comes down to that we have a lot of work to do to make things fair and just and that would take too much time and too much money and piss off too many white men.

[collins]

the right to vote is just that... a RIGHT to vote... not a mandate. you have the choice to refrain from voting, but if you do so, you also waive your right to b!tch about policies.


btw, if hitlary is elected, who's moving to canada with me?

[Tracy]

I wonder when the ballot will address how much you can spend on a candidacy? Oh, I'm not a lobbyist.....so probably never :)

[Batlground]

So.. just like Social Security of which we will probably never reap the benefits of, its okay to force wage garnishments on those that work while those who do not get the reward? Interesting..
If someone chooses not to participate in the Healthcare-out-of-your-paycheck socialized system, do you think they should be given medical care at all?

I agree with you, i think socializing it is NOT the answer. I dont think the government should regulate it.

EDIT: Im responding to this because ive been home throwing up all night and all day, i dont have healthcare it costs me $$$$$$ to go to a doctor so im interested in what the candidates solution will be

[NevrNufTorq]

If someone chooses not to participate in the Healthcare-out-of-your-paycheck socialized system, do you think they should be given medical care at all?

I agree with you, i think socializing it is NOT the answer. I dont think the government should regulate it.

EDIT: Im responding to this because ive been home throwing up all night and all day, i dont have healthcare it costs me $$$$$$ to go to a doctor so im interested in what the candidates solution will be
sorry you're sick, but you are right everyone deserves healthcare! just really scared if we all end up with a near 50% taxrate like the british have.

on the topic of you being sick, you can go to the emergency room, and they will treat you regardless, and you can pay them $10/mo forever and they cant even kill your credit as long as you pay them something :D

[JConner]

+ for you!

F this wage garnishment for people that do not want to pay for health care


Hitlary is playing off of the weakness of the american people.

the people that belive the bull**** she is saying about how people in america do not have the heath care they deserve will ruin this country. most of these people she is talking about that are so sad without health care are; illegals, college students who are perfectly healthy, and rich people who don't want to pay monthly for something that my not happen when they could write a check if anything ever happens.

[JConner]

Like I said, this is not something I feel like getting into a 12 page paragraph argument on. I have had enough face to face discussions about it in the past few weeks to make me puke. I'll see if I can put my view simply enough to get my feeling across without pissing off MR org. I do watch the news and I do read magazines and the Internet. I'm not ignorant to the candidates positions. That's not to say that I completely sure of their positions because they aren't even sure of their positions. I watched CNN last night and had to change the channel because they can't get what they stand for straight..so how am I supposed to? I may not be able to debate at the Iowa caucus, but I did watch it :) (along with other scattered televised events). I also went to college and took Political Science just like most people who went to college did. The president doesn't run sh.it around here. Sure he has the right to veto and can make SOME executive decisions...but they are a pawn of the cabinet...of which are APPOINTED and not voted in by me or you...but voted on by the Senate....WHO REALLY RUN ****. So everyone makes a big deal out of voting for president, when they should really focus on who they vote into becoming a judge since they are the ones who become members of the Senate a lot of the time :)

You know what? This is too long already and I can see it getting 12 paragraphs longer if I keep on. I think medical care should be socialized. I also think that there should be less tax breaks for multi-millionaire companies so that their taxes can be applied to things like socialized medical care and higher education...rather than them applying their extra money to the presidential campaigns that costs $50 million dollars each (in other words paying off officials essentially). I think that every candidate should be given an equal budget by the gov't that is taken from million dollar company taxes.

Ok so there is a little of my stance. Remind me not to post in threads like this again :)

P.S. If it's our responsibility to vote...then make it illegal to not vote. I'll vote for that. Oh yea, I know there are a million /reasons excuses why that can't or will never happen. It basically comes down to that we have a lot of work to do to make things fair and just and that would take too much time and too much money and piss off too many white men.

Have you ever been to "Great" Britain? Have you ever been to Canada? Try getting a dentist appointment in "Great" Britain! Just look at the british people's teeth! That is because they have socialized health/dental care so it takes a year to get a dentist appointment....while here in the US i go to the dentist once every 6 months and have no cavities and can walk into a hospital if i have any health problems!


You think there should be LESS tax breaks for multi-million dollar corps.? Are you kidding? Who do you work for? I doubt you work for a poor person that leaches off of the government. If there weren't rich people YOU WOULDNT HAVE A JOB!

[JConner]

the right to vote is just that... a RIGHT to vote... not a mandate. you have the choice to refrain from voting, but if you do so, you also waive your right to b!tch about policies.


btw, if hitlary is elected, who's moving to canada with me?


YOU ARE AN IDIOT! We do not have a RIGHT to vote! We are ALLOWED to vote! There is no constitutional right to vote, please read it before you speak.

[NevrNufTorq]

Have you ever been to "Great" Britain? Have you ever been to Canada? Try getting a dentist appointment in "Great" Britain! Just look at the british people's teeth! That is because they have socialized health/dental care so it takes a year to get a dentist appointment....while here in the US i go to the dentist once every 6 months and have no cavities and can walk into a hospital if i have any health problems!


You think there should be LESS tax breaks for multi-million dollar corps.? Are you kidding? Who do you work for? I doubt you work for a poor person that leaches off of the government. If there weren't rich people YOU WOULDNT HAVE A JOB!
you make very good points, but let's keep this civil, tracy is a private business owner(part owner spped shop) and an entreprenaur(sp?) with drifting events and such. everyone is entitled to their opinion and i respect hers even though i dont agree with it!!! :taun: j/k ;)

[JConner]

you make very good points, but let's keep this civil, tracy is a private business owner(part owner spped shop) and an entreprenaur(sp?) with drifting events and such. everyone is entitled to their opinion and i respect hers even though i dont agree with it!!! :taun: j/k ;)

i didn't know that she is a business owner. You would think that she would be for cutting taxes on businesses....even doing away with income taxes all together and be supporting the fair tax wich promotes small businesses instead of punishing people like her for giving people jobs like the democrats LOOOVVVEEE to do with more taxes.

[JConner]

P.S. If it's our responsibility to vote...then make it illegal to not vote. I'll vote for that. Oh yea, I know there are a million /reasons excuses why that can't or will never happen. It basically comes down to that we have a lot of work to do to make things fair and just and that would take too much time and too much money and piss off too many white men.


why make it illegal for someone not to vote? I think if someone is living off of the goverment (welfare) they should NOT be allowed to vote. I also think that before you vote you should have to answer a few simple questions (do we have a RIGHT to vote? who is your congress man/woman? etc) to prove a persons knowledge about our government and the constitution.

p.s. if you cannot answer the two questions above correctly, please stay away from the poles tomorrow

[YoungGun]

Socialized programs in general are a bad idea because it only leads to more and more money being pulled from the people to be put into them. People forget that all the heavy taxes we pay are still pretty new for this country. Income taxes weren't fully established until 1913 and then it was a much smaller percentage for everyone. And that just one of the taxes we pay. What is the cause of this you may ask... government run socialized programs like welfare, social security, ect... Medical coverage should be open to all and it is. Its just not free. But, if it becomes free then the level of care for all will most surely decline.

This all follows the typical run of a democracy's life. A democracy will die when the people who vote use that power to give themselves more and more. If this happens the economy will stagnate and then slowly decline until the government can no longer support itself and finally collapse. The avg. lifespan for a democracy... 200 years.

http://www.catholic-convert.com/Default.aspx?tabid=59&EntryID=395

[NevrNufTorq]

why make it illegal for someone not to vote? I think if someone is living off of the goverment (welfare) they should NOT be allowed to vote. I also think that before you vote you should have to answer a few simple questions (do we have a RIGHT to vote? who is your congress man/woman? etc) to prove a persons knowledge about our government and the constitution.

p.s. if you cannot answer the two questions above correctly, please stay away from the poles tomorrow

but dont forget to make things happen that impact us more directly it starts with city council people, mayor, school boards and so forth. oh, and most def the local county tax commissioner!!! you wanna pay less taxes if you own a home? it all starts with the aforementioned people.i would prefer a fair tax, under 24k/yr, no tax and everyone else 18-21% however it works out. no penalty for making more money if you wanna try to make more or get a raise and no impact like the fair tax on purchased goods that could give an easier cause for the gov't to also crash due to possible recession like no and everyone tries to save more! :2cents: as always

[JConner]

Socialized programs in general are a bad idea because it only leads to more and more money being pulled from the people to be put into them. People forget that all the heavy taxes we pay are still pretty new for this country. Income taxes weren't fully established until 1913 and then it was a much smaller percentage for everyone. And that just one of the taxes we pay. What is the cause of this you may ask... government run socialized programs like welfare, social security, ect... Medical coverage should be open to all and it is. Its just not free. But, if it becomes free then the level of care for all will most surely decline.

This all follows the typical run of a democracy's life. A democracy will die when the people who vote use that power to give themselves more and more. If this happens the economy will stagnate and then slowly decline until the government can no longer support itself and finally collapse. The avg. lifespan for a democracy... 200 years. e

http://www.catholic-convert.com/Default.aspx?tabid=59&EntryID=395


I hope that you did not just say that we are a democracy.


we are a REPUBLIC not a democracy

Pledge of Allegiance ring a bell?

[NevrNufTorq]

Socialized programs in general are a bad idea because it only leads to more and more money being pulled from the people to be put into them. People forget that all the heavy taxes we pay are still pretty new for this country. Income taxes weren't fully established until 1913 and then it was a much smaller percentage for everyone. And that just one of the taxes we pay. What is the cause of this you may ask... government run socialized programs like welfare, social security, ect... Medical coverage should be open to all and it is. Its just not free. But, if it becomes free then the level of care for all will most surely decline.

This all follows the typical run of a democracy's life. A democracy will die when the people who vote use that power to give themselves more and more. If this happens the economy will stagnate and then slowly decline until the government can no longer support itself and finally collapse. The avg. lifespan for a democracy... 200 years.

http://www.catholic-convert.com/Default.aspx?tabid=59&EntryID=395

very well put and as you well know "the fall of rome" :goodjob:

[NevrNufTorq]

I hope that you did not just say that we are a democracy.


we are a REPUBLIC not a democracy

Pledge of Allegiance ring a bell?
dont go all philosophical on this!! the discussion and posts were starting to get good. if you wanna knit pick take it to pm's please. you sound like a college professor trying to stir the pot freshman year to get you to figure out 'what you believe' :D

[JConner]

but dont forget to make things happen that impact us more directly it starts with city council people, mayor, school boards and so forth. oh, and most def the local county tax commissioner!!! you wanna pay less taxes if you own a home? it all starts with the aforementioned people.i would prefer a fair tax, under 24k/yr, no tax and everyone else 18-21% however it works out. no penalty for making more money if you wanna try to make more or get a raise and no impact like the fair tax on purchased goods that could give an easier cause for the gov't to also crash due to possible recession like no and everyone tries to save more! :2cents: as always


you obviously have no idea what the fair tax is. please read this book (http://www.amazon.com/Fair-Tax-Book-Saying-Goodbye/dp/B000UENRO2/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1202186385&sr=8-2).
(ps. i have a copy if you need to borrow it before you go to the poll's tomorrow)

Under the fair tax it will not matter how much a person makes per year. If you make 80K per year, you keep 80K per year. Under the fair tax you get taxed on how much you SPEND, not how much you MAKE!

[JConner]

dont go all philosophical on this!! the discussion and posts were starting to get good. if you wanna knit pick take it to pm's please. you sound like a college professor trying to stir the pot freshman year to get you to figure out 'what you believe' :D

i am not knit picking! there is a HUGE difference between a democracy and a republic!



btw: college professors usually have an opposite view than me.

[_Christian_]

People forget that all the heavy taxes we pay are still pretty new for this country. Income taxes weren't fully established until 1913 and then it was a much smaller percentage for everyone. And that just one of the taxes we pay. What is the cause of this you may ask... government run socialized programs like welfare, social security, ect...
Income tax was only established to pay for Canada's part in WW1. Now everyone has become accustomed to working 4 months out of the year for uncle sam. It just goes to show that if you give an inch they take a mile. Socialized healthcare will never work as well as privatized healthcare. The government in america has become too large and plays too much a part in everyone's lives. Socialism just doesn't work. It has been played out. The people who would support a socialist like Hillary are those who have failed miserably at life and want handouts, and those who lack the ability to reason.

[redrumracer]

i say **** everything and lets have another civil war and then start from scratch.

[JConner]

Income tax was only established to pay for Canada's part in WW1. Now everyone has become accustomed to working 4 months out of the year for uncle sam. It just goes to show that if you give an inch they take a mile. Socialized healthcare will never work as well as privatized healthcare. The government in america has become too large and plays too much a part in everyone's lives. Socialism just doesn't work. It has been played out. The people who would support a socialist like Hillary are those who have failed miserably at life and want handouts, and those who lack the ability to reason.

+ for you! Government does play toooooo much a role in our lives. The under-achievers (POOR) want more government while the high-achievers (rich) want less government.

I just watched a 13 year old boy say "Obama will fix what George Bush has messed up." on the 11:00 news

I dread the day that Hitlary or Osama Obama gets elected and we pull out of Iraq. We will soon thereafter be attacked by the radical islamic people again and those people that criticized Bush will wish he was still in office protecting us.

[redrumracer]

the CSA needs to win this time

and hopefully people will realize that the original war wasnt about slavery.

[_Christian_]

and hopefully people will realize that the original war wasnt about slavery.
seriously

[NevrNufTorq]

you obviously have no idea what the fair tax is. please read this book (http://www.amazon.com/Fair-Tax-Book-Saying-Goodbye/dp/B000UENRO2/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1202186385&sr=8-2).
(ps. i have a copy if you need to borrow it before you go to the poll's tomorrow)

Under the fair tax it will not matter how much a person makes per year. If you make 80K per year, you keep 80K per year. Under the fair tax you get taxed on how much you SPEND, not how much you MAKE!
easy big boy!! i want the flat tax personally, the fair tax would fluctuate to much on spending and go up and down like the stock market. sorry i got the 2 mixed up.

and you're right most professors would prefer the opposite of your opinion but i went to the citadel so i didnt have the 'normal' college experience during the week :rolleyes:

[JConner]

easy big boy!! i want the flat tax personally, the fair tax would fluctuate to much on spending and go up and down like the stock market. sorry i got the 2 mixed up.

and you're right most professors would prefer the opposite of your opinion but i went to the citadel so i didnt have the 'normal' college experience during the week :rolleyes:

sorry lol! this is a very sensitive topic to me.

I am a poor college student, but..... my parents happen to be high-achievers (which I will be soon). I am all-for less taxes on the rich, woops i mean HIGH ACHIEVERS! :cheers: it's all good.


edit:
i am not biased.... the fair tax or the flat tax would be great if we could ever get it enacted.

[mushroom_toy]

I kinda wish Bill Clinton was back in office lol.

[NevrNufTorq]

sorry lol! this is a very sensitive topic to me.

I am a poor college student, but..... my parents happen to be high-achievers (which I will be soon). I am all-for less taxes on the rich, woops i mean HIGH ACHIEVERS! :cheers: it's all good.


edit:
i am not biased.... the fair tax or the flat tax would be great if we could ever get it enacted.
as much as i would like to see it, it will never happen. too easy to figure out what money goes where and then everyone starts asking questions about what really goes to area 51 and all that other stuff, just my take, but maybe we would never know and all that stuff would still be hidden in military budgets and stuff :goodjob:

[JConner]

as much as i would like to see it, it will never happen. too easy to figure out what money goes where and then everyone starts asking questions about what really goes to area 51 and all that other stuff, just my take, but maybe we would never know and all that stuff would still be hidden in military budgets and stuff :goodjob:


never say never. I don't see a simple tax system happening anytime soon but, I hope to see some change within my lifetime.

edit: although, 9 months from now we will know if we are moving towards or farther away from a simple tax plan.

[NevrNufTorq]

never say never. I don't see a simple tax system happening anytime soon but, I hope to see some change within my lifetime.

edit: although, 9 months from now we will know if we are moving towards or farther away from a simple tax plan.
they'll call it simple!!!! raise, raise, raise, pay more and more!!! see, simple :blah:

[JConner]

they'll call it simple!!!! raise, raise, raise, pay more and more!!! see, simple :blah:



You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to NevrNufTorq again.

[JConner]

time for me to go to bed. I hope I convinced some of the younger voters to think about their future today when they may .... or most likely will not, go to the polls to vote.

[YoungGun]

I hope that you did not just say that we are a democracy.


we are a REPUBLIC not a democracy

Pledge of Allegiance ring a bell?

If you actually read from the link... what I said was from a quote on there by a British professor discussing the Athenian REPUBLIC of 2000 years ago. I know the difference but democracy is our form of government. Its a republic because there are limits but its still a democracy.