Top Four Tips For Driving Like A Pro (very good read!)

[EJ25RUN]

http://blogs.motortrend.com/6227881/editorial/top-four-tips-for-driving-like-a-pro/index.html

What I'm about to share I've learned racing formula cars and attending more than a dozen professional driving/racing schools in the U.S. and Europe. As I noted in my column in the November Motor Trend, I highly recommend that you find a way to enroll in one of these institutes of higher velocity yourself. A few days on the skid pad and race track will pay a lifetime of driving dividends. Admittedly, though, high-performance driving and racing schools are expensive. Until your bank account shows you the green light, therefore, I'm giving you a head start right here, right now. Free.


1. Be smooth. Your car's transmission, its tires, its chassis -- they don't like abrupt inputs. Slamming on the gas throws the car's weight to the rear, unsettling the front tires (hey, you need those to steer). Diving on the brakes hurls the car's weight forward (now your poor front tires are overloaded trying to brake hard and steer, and the suddenly light rear tires just might decide to swing the tail around on you). Driving well is all about weight management, controlling the ever-shifting mass of the car so the tires are never overloaded. That means rolling the steering wheel gracefully into turns, squeezing on the gas and brakes, moving the transmission lever (if you have a manual) as if the shift knob were an egg. I was lucky enough to ride once with three-time world champion Sir Jackie Stewart in an original Ford GT40. The guy made that clattering old race car move as if it were swimming in Wesson Oil. Even though we were blazing around Laguna Seca, I wasn't being tossed around inside the cockpit. Instead, I was gently pushed from side to side, eased forward and back, as the Maestro conducted a ballet at the wheel. The sensation had much more in common with riding in an expertly driven limousine -- don't spill our champagne, Jeeves -- than with the typical Hollywood portrayal of "expert" driving. Trust me on this: Smoothness at the wheel is the single biggest indicator of driving skill. (Conversely, driving like Rambo is a dead giveaway that you're a wanker.)

2. Turn later. "All God's children turn in early," a racing instructor once told me. And he was right. Watch the car ahead of you on a twisty road sometime. See how he crosses the yellow line when turning left? That's turning too soon. Even when driving briskly, you should always be able to corner within your own lane. Same thing happens when racing students first hit a track. "Why, that turn is coming up so fast and the road is running out so I'd better steer now!" And what happens? They clip the inside of the corner too soon and the resulting arc carries them right off the outside of the turn. Turning later takes practice, but it's key to balancing your car on the road and maximizing speed on a track. In effect, you're slowing down a little earlier, letting the car roll a little father into the turn, smoothly arcing the wheel so the tires can bite and provide you with maximum grip. Most important: Turning later means you can get on the gas earlier. If you turn early, you'll have to back off the throttle to keep the car from arcing off the road. Turn later, and your balanced machine will be ready to glide through the apex and charge toward the exit under power. Given that accelerating is the hardest thing for a car to do, the more time your right foot can be on the gas, the quicker you'll be around the track.

3. Look ahead. Nope, not at the car in front of you. No, not at the car in front of him, either. I want you looking as far down the road as you can. On a mountain road, you're not looking at the corner you're in, you're looking for the next one. On the highway, your eyes are scanning the horizon, often a half-mile or more down the road. On the track, you're always looking where you want to go. Each of us is equipped with an Early Warning System, but too often we don't use it. Get your eyes up, and suddenly you've got advance info. You know what the next corner looks like before you fly into it. You can see that crash ahead before the driver in front of you pounces on his brakes. On the track, your hands and feet will instinctively follow your eyes; look where you want to go, and your car will go there. (Why do so many drivers crash into the only tree around for miles? Because they're looking right at the thing they don't want to hit.) Looking ahead takes practice, but you'll be amazed at how well it works –- and at how much close-up information you're still picking up simply from peripheral vision. Suddenly, you're not playing connect the dots with individual lane stripes; you're flowing past them, aiming at that spot way in the distance. You have more time to react; you can plan your next move, keeping your car in that critical balance. You're smoother, in better control, a vastly improved driver. Try it.

4. Brake like you're taking a crap. Apologies if I offend, but this lesson from another racing instructor (yes, he was French) explains proper braking more effectively than any other. Remember Tip #1, Be smooth? In braking it's especially critical. Brakes are very powerful and can easily upset a car's balance -- even if you have ABS. So, in the words of my teacher: "Braking well is like taking a big poop. First you squeeze, then you push very very hard, and then you gently taaaaper off at the end." There. Now you know everything there is to know about how Lewis Hamilton dives so deep into corners. The best part: You can even practice while reading the new Motor Trend.

[BuBBa DRiFT]

good read +3

[Nemesis]

Awesome read. Thanks for posting.

[EJ25RUN]

good read +3


Awesome read. Thanks for posting.

I felt he hit the head of the nail when he described that being smooth is the best way. Real race drivers look like their so gentle but are going at the cars max potential by saving components and recording consistant lap times :goodjob:

[Nemesis]

Ill definitly be reading this post again before the track day. My first time on a track I was all over the place.

[DieselNuts]

lol, the braking part is funny to me.

[matthewAPM]

damn. is that me talking? those are the thing that I tell everyone when instructing. looking ahead is the hardest for people. do it on the street and it will transfer to the track...

[matthewAPM]

lol, the braking part is funny to me.

haha. his way to explain is funny. the way like like to think of it is with a orange. you can push the brake all the way to the floor and not bust the orange if u do it smoothly but if u stomp on them, it will bust

[man]

do it on the street and it will transfer to the track...

Horrible advice. The street and the track are two different animals and thus require very different skills. Look at any LEO or Federal agent proficient in high speed driving. It is all about calculation. They are constantly scanning the cars around them as they represent a much bigger threat than anything on the horizon. The problem is predictability. On a track, no one is going to slam on their brakes because a rabbit is running across the road.

[EJ25RUN]

Horrible advice. The street and the track are two different animals and thus require very different skills. Look at any LEO or Federal agent proficient in high speed driving. It is all about calculation. They are constantly scanning the cars around them as they represent a much bigger threat than anything on the horizon. The problem is predictability. On a track, no one is going to slam on their brakes because a rabbit is running across the road.


i dont know bout that. ive thought myself too look as far as possible down the road and my peripheral vision helps with those right next to me.

1.Be alert!
2. drive with both hands on wheel and only take off to shift, but put right back
3. learn to rev match and heel toe

those are things you can learn on the street!

[matthewAPM]

i dont know bout that. ive thought myself too look as far as possible down the road and my peripheral vision helps with those right next to me.

1.Be alert!
2. drive with both hands on wheel and only take off to shift, but put right back
3. learn to rev match and heel toe

those are things you can learn on the street!

a smart person on IA. reps.

Im not saying go out and drive 10/10th on the street. thats stupid. but u can heel/toe, look ahead, practice good driving position etc.

[EJ25RUN]

a smart person on IA. reps.

Im not saying go out and drive 10/10th on the street. thats stupid. but u can heel/toe, look ahead, practice good driving position etc.

i think my tranny, clutch, and engine really love me after i started to do it like second nature.... saves components... #1 reason i do it.

[matthewAPM]

andrew caddell couldnt heel/toe before he went to nationals for the first time in spec miata. his team MADE him learn so he would stop frying clutches and blowing trannys

[EJ25RUN]

LOL look what i found on edmunds

http://www.edmunds.com/advice/youngdrivers/articles/119593/article.html

[matthewAPM]

thats awesome. good find!

[EJ25RUN]

thats awesome. good find!

i bet middle aged women are writing this down verbatme,

only to forget you cant do it in an automatic :lmfao:

[matthewAPM]

i bet middle aged women are writing this down verbatme,

only to forget you cant do it in an automatic :lmfao:
haha:lmfao: :lmfao:

[Imadaman]

nice write up

[Oz10]

Horrible advice. The street and the track are two different animals and thus require very different skills. Look at any LEO or Federal agent proficient in high speed driving. It is all about calculation. They are constantly scanning the cars around them as they represent a much bigger threat than anything on the horizon. The problem is predictability. On a track, no one is going to slam on their brakes because a rabbit is running across the road.

I don't mean to be an ass, but a rabbit could very likely run across a race track. There are sometimes deer at RA and I'm sure we've all seen videos of that kangaroo getting hit in Australia. Just because its a track doesn't mean there aren't any outside hazards.

[TheGrillMan]

the "looking foward advice" is golden my bro taught me that when he taugh me how to drive and it;s saved me alot fo time from deer\ wrecks\stupid drivers

[matthewAPM]

I don't mean to be an ass, but a rabbit could very likely run across a race track. There are sometimes deer at RA and I'm sure we've all seen videos of that kangaroo getting hit in Australia. Just because its a track doesn't mean there aren't any outside hazards.

I wanna say it was king rat motorsports that hit a deer in there Spec Miata during the 13hr of VIR

[Elbow]

All of those are great. Looking ahead you can notice a huge difference in times. I picked that up in karting and never let it go! Also being smooth, etc. Looking ahead on the street is good. You can spot danger a LOT further away. Such as cars slowing, debris, anything. I have turned some situations some may have had a panic into something small because I saw it a mile away.

[matthewAPM]

All of those are great. Looking ahead you can notice a huge difference in times. I picked that up in karting and never let it go! Also being smooth, etc. Looking ahead on the street is good. You can spot danger a LOT further away. Such as cars slowing, debris, anything. I have turned some situations some may have had a panic into something small because I saw it a mile away.

even if u were not looking ahead, u cant go fast enough to hurt anything in a miata.:lmfao:

[Elbow]

I don't want a deer in my lap though lol

[matthewAPM]

I don't want a deer in my lap though lol

yeah. king rat motorsports hit a deer. looked like they hit a wall. lol

[300z32x]

beautifully written, really captured they keys of a great driver! A+

[EJ25RUN]

for fcman: rabbit getting owned (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xt8cmdzSss&feature=related)

[speedminded]

Horrible advice. The street and the track are two different animals and thus require very different skills. Look at any LEO or Federal agent proficient in high speed driving. It is all about calculation. They are constantly scanning the cars around them as they represent a much bigger threat than anything on the horizon. The problem is predictability. On a track, no one is going to slam on their brakes because a rabbit is running across the road.Negative.

Always look as far as you can and your peripheral vision will naturally see what's around you, doesn't mean focus on anything specific just look far ahead and take notice of what's going on and your surroundings. It's the people that drive staring at the taillights of the vehicle in front of them that cause accidents then because they are so fixated on the 20 feet in front of them they can't see what's ahead or either side.




I dont know bout that. ive thought myself too look as far as possible down the road and my peripheral vision helps with those right next to me.

1.Be alert!
2. drive with both hands on wheel and only take off to shift, but put right back
3. learn to rev match and heel toe

those are things you can learn on the street!Bingo. Just curious, when the rear lets go or in a spin do you teach keeping both hands on the wheel?

[EJ25RUN]

Negative.

Always look as far as you can and your peripheral vision will naturally see what's around you, doesn't mean focus on anything specific just look far ahead and take notice of what's going on and your surroundings. It's the people that drive staring at the taillights of the vehicle in front of them that cause accidents then because they are so fixated on the 20 feet in front of them they can't see what's ahead or either side.



Bingo. Just curious, when the rear lets go or in a spin do you teach keeping both hands on the wheel?

Ive never "taught" but from my 300zx days.... id say yes... i remember using both hands to countersteer (you can do it with one) but still goes to the principle you have more control with both hands.

[matthewAPM]

Negative.

Always look as far as you can and your peripheral vision will naturally see what's around you, doesn't mean focus on anything specific just look far ahead and take notice of what's going on and your surroundings. It's the people that drive staring at the taillights of the vehicle in front of them that cause accidents then because they are so fixated on the 20 feet in front of them they can't see what's ahead or either side.



Bingo. Just curious, when the rear lets go or in a spin do you teach keeping both hands on the wheel?

both hands on the wheel and both feet in.

once you have been around a few times you can start trying to downshift while spinning. haha.

[speedminded]

Ive never "taught" but from my 300zx days.... id say yes... i remember using both hands to countersteer (you can do it with one) but still goes to the principle you have more control with both hands.General counter steering yes, as in the rear kicks out a little and you react to it but if you're in an all out slide or drift there is no possible way you can keep two hands on the wheel and still maintain control unless you have an insane steering quickener with lock to lock being like 180°. If the rear seriously lets go and you keep two hands on a wheel you normally can't turn it far enough to prevent a spin and there is no way you can bring it back fast enough to the point needed to maintain control and doing it without over correcting. The wheel will straighten itself out, countersteer as needed and keep a steady throttle (or lay into it depending on the power and tires the car has).

I've watched countless in-car race video's and you can tell before it happens who's going to crash or be in the kitty litter just from their reactions when the rear steps out.

I always get called out on mtn. runs for using one hand through blind turns...one on the steering wheel and one on the shift knob. I always look as far through the inside corner of a turn as possible so if there does happen to be a bicycle or obstruction in the road you can react fast enough to it. With two hands on the wheel there is no way you can downshift, brake, and steer at the same time. The time it takes to get from the wheel to the shift knob may be that extra second needed to avoid a collision. After twelve years of running in the mtns and never once had a close call because of it.

[speedminded]

both hands on the wheel and both feet in.

once you have been around a few times you can start trying to downshift while spinning. haha.huh, both feet into what? The brakes?!

[EJ25RUN]

General counter steering yes, as in the rear kicks out a little and you react to it but if you're in an all out slide or drift there is no possible way you can keep two hands on the wheel and still maintain control unless you have an insane steering quickener with lock to lock being like 180°. If the rear seriously lets go and you keep two hands on a wheel you normally can't turn it far enough to prevent a spin and there is no way you can bring it back fast enough to the point needed to maintain control and doing it without over correcting. The wheel will straighten itself out, countersteer as needed and keep a steady throttle (or lay into it depending on the power and tires the car has).

I've watched countless in-car race video's and you can tell before it happens who's going to crash or be in the kitty litter just from their reactions when the rear steps out.

I always get called out on mtn. runs for using one hand through blind turns...one on the steering wheel and one on the shift knob. I always look as far through the inside corner of a turn as possible so if there does happen to be a bicycle or obstruction in the road you can react fast enough to it. With two hands on the wheel there is no way you can downshift, brake, and steer at the same time. The time it takes to get from the wheel to the shift knob may be that extra second needed to avoid a collision. After twelve years of running in the mtns and never once had a close call because of it.

by both hands i mean alternating wrists as you turn... not gripping tight with both palms!

"With two hands on the wheel there is no way you can downshift, brake, and steer at the same time. The time it takes to get from the wheel to the shift knob may be that extra second needed to avoid a collision."

you dont need to. Car controls are such where you hold the wheel with both hands at the right momenents and the shift knob to change gear for that "very short moment!"

About that extra second to avoid collision.... What exactly does putting your hand down to shift change from either braking or accelerating and streering during an incident? I feel that, if you need to shift during a turn, then do it! We dont have three arms so its impossible to shift with both hands steering but i dont think that "second to shift" is as dramatic as you say. With enough practice at using both hands you #1 cut that second down and #2 you are most alert if you need to do something (shift, steer, brake, acc, whatever).

[EJ25RUN]

cmon speedminded you've been responding since 10:28 ;)

[Spektrewing386]

Looking forward is good advice, but you dont always want to contantly do it. If other drivers can only see 100ft around/infront of them using "peripheral vision" then that scares the **** out of me. Its a good thing to scan the horizon for danger, but dont do it all the time. Most of the time if something is going to happen, its not already there waiting for you a mile down the road. Its going to happen to you 100-300ft infront of you got a 1000 yard killer stare at the horizon, then you or some other creature is going to die. The dangerous thing in the horizion is at least 20-30sec away, you got time to look at that after you dodge the child that just ran out in the street to get his ball (or the deer that just popped out of the woods)

What I do is a 40% long distance look and a 60% in my area look. So you get the best of both worlds. Someone about to cut you off and run you off the road? Yep I saw it because I was looking in my area. Huge truck overturned on highway? Yep I saw it because i was looking long distance for a second. But if i was 100%scaning the horizion, who knows how many stupid children will die or how many times I almost get run off the road.

[matthewAPM]

huh, both feet into what? The brakes?!

brakes and clutch

[EJ25RUN]

still waiting for speedminded :thinking:

[speedminded]

by both hands i mean alternating wrists as you turn... not gripping tight with both palms!

"With two hands on the wheel there is no way you can downshift, brake, and steer at the same time. The time it takes to get from the wheel to the shift knob may be that extra second needed to avoid a collision."

you dont need to. Car controls are such where you hold the wheel with both hands at the right momenents and the shift knob to change gear for that "very short moment!"

About that extra second to avoid collision.... What exactly does putting your hand down to shift change from either braking or accelerating and streering during an incident? I feel that, if you need to shift during a turn, then do it! We dont have three arms so its impossible to shift with both hands steering but i dont think that "second to shift" is as dramatic as you say. With enough practice at using both hands you #1 cut that second down and #2 you are most alert if you need to do something (shift, steer, brake, acc, whatever).Alternating wrists while sideways?! One of the main points of the 4 rules in the original post is to be smooth... :tongue:

[speedminded]

cmon speedminded you've been responding since 10:28 ;)some people gotta work! then eat lunch :D


brakes and clutcherr yeahhh, if i'm sideways through a turn the last think i'm doing is letting off the throttle or touching the brakes.

[EJ25RUN]

Alternating wrists while sideways?! One of the main points of the 4 rules in the original post is to be smooth... :tongue:

im not talking bout being sideways... (im not a drifter) i mean unlike F1 cars we cant go lock to lock with one turn and have i think like 900 degrees to play with. So yes you have to take both hands of and alternate hands as you let it go through what is probably a slow tight turn. Cmon this is also meant to give you the fastest time and we both know if your loose in the back your losing time!

[Thighs]

With two hands on the wheel there is no way you can downshift, brake, and steer at the same time.

doesnt it make more sense to be able to steer the car instead of downshifting? i mean, if it really comes down to it, just push in the clutch and coast (or brake, whatever is necessary) past the bike or deer or midget or whatever is in the road. you dont NEED to downshift. when your in a situation where you are actually faced with something you have to avoid, your focus should shift from going fast/making a good time to saving the car, yourself, the midget dancing in the middle of the road, and not having any sort of damage done to either party.

2 hands on the wheel FTW

[speedminded]

im not talking bout being sideways... (im not a drifter) i mean unlike F1 cars we cant go lock to lock with one turn and have i think like 900 degrees to play with. So yes you have to take both hands of and alternate hands as you let it go through what is probably a slow tight turn. Cmon this is also meant to give you the fastest time and we both know if your loose in the back your losing time!My entire point was from the very beginning was when the rear slips out, you're sideways, going into a spin, or spinning does he teach to keep both hands on the wheel...

[speedminded]

doesnt it make more sense to be able to steer the car instead of downshifting? i mean, if it really comes down to it, just push in the clutch and coast (or brake, whatever is necessary) past the bike or deer or midget or whatever is in the road. you dont NEED to downshift. when your in a situation where you are actually faced with something you have to avoid, your focus should shift from going fast/making a good time to saving the car, yourself, the midget dancing in the middle of the road, and not having any sort of damage done to either party.

2 hands on the wheel FTWlol, you've never been on a mtn. run have you...

[EJ25RUN]

doesnt it make more sense to be able to steer the car instead of downshifting? i mean, if it really comes down to it, just push in the clutch and coast (or brake, whatever is necessary) past the bike or deer or midget or whatever is in the road. you dont NEED to downshift. when your in a situation where you are actually faced with something you have to avoid, your focus should shift from going fast/making a good time to saving the car, yourself, the midget dancing in the middle of the road, and not having any sort of damage done to either party.

2 hands on the wheel FTW

one point i also want to bring up is on a mountain run.....a bike, car, ped, whatever can be on the otherside

your automatically supposed to slow down to speed where its safe for all. A mtn run isnt a 100% safe thing and its a responsibility of the person participating to be able to evaluate a situation on the fly.

Its not a racetrack where things like random obsticles dont happen so if im going down a pass through a blind turn i will probably be going at 85% of my and the cars ability simply because of what could be on the other side.



This senario would change to 100% if im going over a blind hill at road atlanta. ~ im saying Their wont be a bike staranded for me to hit.

[Thighs]

some people gotta work! then eat lunch :D

err yeahhh, if i'm sideways through a turn the last think i'm doing is letting off the throttle or touching the brakes.

if your in a spin, you dont wanna be full throttle the whole time... thats called being outta control.

[EJ25RUN]

speedminded Replying to Thread Top Four Tips For Driving Like A Pro (very good read!) @ 01:05 PM

[Thighs]

^^ lol.

and it doesnt matter if ive been on a mtn run. when your in a situation where youre gonna hit somebody/something, MY first instinct is to slow down and get past the trouble, and its not necessary to downshift while doing so.

[speedminded]

one point i also want to bring up is on a mountain run.....a bike, car, ped, whatever can be on the otherside

your automatically supposed to slow down to speed where its safe for all. A mtn run isnt a 100% safe thing and its a responsibility of the person participating to be able to evaluate a situation on the fly.

Its not a racetrack where things like random obsticles dont happen so if im going down a pass through a blind turn i will probably be going at 85% of my and the cars ability simply because of what could be on the other side.



This senario would change to 100% if im going over a blind hill at road atlanta. ~ im saying Their wont be a bike staranded for me to hit.It's no different than a rally race where you DON"T have a corner worker and flag at every single turn...you have to be prepared for what it around the bend. When you go for a mile or two at a time and every single right hand turn is a blind curve you have to be prepared for the worst and be prepared to prevent an incident. Two hands on the wheel and slamming on the brakes will probably put you into the oncoming lane in a right hand turn. What about when simply letting off the gas may put you into a spin?

I guarantee you I can stop faster and maintain better control by using one hand on the wheel and feet on the clutch, brake, & gas while downshifting all at the same time than someone with 2 hands on the wheels and both feet on the brakes.

[Thighs]

It's no different than a rally race where you DON"T have a corner worker and flag at every single turn...you have to be prepared for what it around the bend. When you go for a mile or two at a time and every single right hand turn is a blind curve you have to be prepared for the worst and be prepared to prevent an incident. Two hands on the wheel and slamming on the brakes will probably put you into the oncoming lane in a right hand turn. What about when simply letting off the gas may put you into a spin?

I guarantee you I can stop faster and maintain better control by using one hand on the wheel and feet on the clutch, brake, & gas while downshifting all at the same time than someone with 2 hands on the wheels and both feet on the brakes.

your an idiot if youre driving on an every day public road like its a rally stage. if thats the case, and im not necessarily saying it is, then i hope you spin and fly off a cliff on one of your mtn runs.

[matthewAPM]

some people gotta work! then eat lunch :D

err yeahhh, if i'm sideways through a turn the last think i'm doing is letting off the throttle or touching the brakes.

if your already in a spin dumbass. not sh!t if your sliding nail the gas and drift that mothafawka

i think its funny how people try to act like they know what there talking about, yet if u put them on a road course with 30 other cars they would have no clue what to do

[matthewAPM]

lol, you've never been on a mtn. run have you...

you've never been on on a road course have you??

[speedminded]

your an idiot if youre driving on an every day public road like its a rally stage. if thats the case, and im not necessarily saying it is, then i hope you spin and fly off a cliff on one of your mtn runs.I bet your Miata is cute :)

There's a reason why experienced people run at night, far less traffic & people to contend with plus you can see the reflections of headlights and taillights around a turn even if you can't see them ;)

[Thighs]

It's no different than a rally race where you DON"T have a corner worker and flag at every single turn...you have to be prepared for what it around the bend. When you go for a mile or two at a time and every single right hand turn is a blind curve you have to be prepared for the worst and be prepared to prevent an incident. Two hands on the wheel and slamming on the brakes will probably put you into the oncoming lane in a right hand turn. What about when simply letting off the gas may put you into a spin?

I guarantee you I can stop faster and maintain better control by using one hand on the wheel and feet on the clutch, brake, & gas while downshifting all at the same time than someone with 2 hands on the wheels and both feet on the brakes.


so let me get this staright... if theres a deer in the road, your not gonna hit the brakes. your gonna heel toe and supa dpa jDm dOrIfTo past the deer?

your a tard.

[matthewAPM]

I bet your Miata is cute :)

There's a reason why experienced people run at night, far less traffic & people to contend with plus you can see the reflections of headlights and taillights around a turn even if you can't see them ;)

no...the reason you run at night is because ur not a good enough driver to drive on the road with other cars. and about the headlights...is it because you drive in both lanes so u use the headlights to tell u when to get back in ur lane?

GTFO

[Thighs]

I bet your Miata is cute :)

There's a reason why experienced people run at night, far less traffic & people to contend with plus you can see the reflections of headlights and taillights around a turn even if you can't see them ;)

your a ****ing ricer. people like YOU give ALLLL the other import drivers a bad rep.

i hope you wrap your jdm pos around a tree on your next mountain run.

and if you think driving fast on a mtn road gives your high speed driving experience, you are stupid. do a track day and get back at me.

[EJ25RUN]

It's no different than a rally race where you DON"T have a corner worker and flag at every single turn...you have to be prepared for what it around the bend. When you go for a mile or two at a time and every single right hand turn is a blind curve you have to be prepared for the worst and be prepared to prevent an incident. Two hands on the wheel and slamming on the brakes will probably put you into the oncoming lane in a right hand turn. What about when simply letting off the gas may put you into a spin?

I guarantee you I can stop faster and maintain better control by using one hand on the wheel and feet on the clutch, brake, & gas while downshifting all at the same time than someone with 2 hands on the wheels and both feet on the brakes.
this scenario is for a mtn pass situation!!!

speedminded your giving a locked front tires scenario.....not the same thing. Again the point im trying to make is your hands are "NOT" glued to the wheel. If you need to downshift, you can (that comes with practice of learning quick shifting). Put it like this.... if im entering a turn hot (too much speed), and i realize the car is gonna go deep, naturaly ive already been able to rev match the shift in to the proper gear while braking (squeezing >into> squashing) basically trying to avoid lock up. I then put the priority to stay on the road. Even if i have to lose time, it keeps me safe and the car together!

im sure this guy \/ wishes he'd done the same.

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q290/cleary996/JanuaryMountainRun062.jpg


if your already in a spin dumbass. not sh!t if your sliding nail the gas and drift that mothafawka

i think its funny how people try to act like they know what there talking about, yet if u put them on a road course with 30 other cars they would have no clue what to do


who are these "people" :???:

[Thighs]

who are these "people" :???:

speedminded. lol

[matthewAPM]

who are these "people" :???:

speedminded FTL... u have some knowledge of this stuff...

i drift that turn all the time in the civic on mtn runs. haha.

[Thighs]

speedminded FTL... u have some knowledge of this stuff...

i drift that turn all the time in the civic on mtn runs. haha.

x 3.147....

[speedminded]

you've never been on on a road course have you??LOL, not if you don't count RA and Roebling or Solo II. The first time cone dodging I had the 7th fastest time of the day out of 40+ cars and the the fastest front wheel drive time in the morning session out of 20+ cars. Already had the ITR swap so was screwed in classes then I put on the Tein Flex and Porsche brakes...lol

Crewed Formula Mazda, Honda Challenge, and NASA teams for 5 years and plan to be running 13hr endurances races in the next 2.

[Thighs]

LOL, not if you don't count RA and Roebling or Solo II. The first time cone dodging I had the 7th fastest time of the day out of 40+ cars and the the fastest front wheel drive time in the morning session out of 20+ cars. Already had the ITR swap so was screwed in classes then I put on the Tein Flex and Porsche brakes...lol

Crewed Formula Mazda, Honda Challenge, and NASA teams for 5 years and plan to be running 13hr endurances races in the next 2.

with all that experience, youd think tat you wouldnt be so stupid.

IM CALLING SHENANIGANS

[EJ25RUN]

dont ruin this thread guys...

not about what he/ she did! :slap:

[speedminded]

your a ****ing ricer. people like YOU give ALLLL the other import drivers a bad rep.

i hope you wrap your jdm pos around a tree on your next mountain run.

and if you think driving fast on a mtn road gives your high speed driving experience, you are stupid. do a track day and get back at me.lol, you mean my USDM Integra? Hrmm...I've never once used the term JDM when referring to a right hand drive car.

[Thighs]

dont ruin this thread guys...

not about what he/ she did! :slap:

okay, okay...

but hes wrong. /rant.

[matthewAPM]

LOL, not if you don't count RA and Roebling or Solo II. The first time cone dodging I had the 7th fastest time of the day out of 40+ cars and the the fastest front wheel drive time in the morning session out of 20+ cars. Already had the ITR swap so was screwed in classes then I put on the Tein Flex and Porsche brakes...lol

Crewed Formula Mazda, Honda Challenge, and NASA teams for 5 years and plan to be running 13hr endurances races in the next 2.

solo 2 is not a road course...thats autocross. and i dont think u want to get me started about that... and just because u drove the track doesnt mean ur good or know what ur talking about, a lot of people have been on RA that suck

so your gonna do the VIR 13 in what car? with what team?

run some Grand Am races then come talk to me...

[EJ25RUN]

speedminded
Im still waiting for your response to post #56!

[Thighs]

solo 2 is not a road course...thats autocross. and i dont think u want to get me started about that... and just because u drove the track doesnt mean ur good or know what ur talking about, a lot of people have been on RA that suck

so your gonna do the VIR 13 in what car? with what team?

run some Grand Am races then come talk to me...

haha pwnt.

matt im on my way up thurr

[matthewAPM]

anyway, what do u think is the number 1 thing that YOU need to work on?

[Thighs]

I need to work on my hand movements and probably braking.

[matthewAPM]

I need to work on my hand movements and probably braking.

haha. yeah thats what i told u. braking is easy to work on. hand is what u need to work on. experience comes with being smooth. the more relazed the faster u are

[EJ25RUN]

haha. yeah thats what i told u. braking is easy to work on. hand is what u need to work on. experience comes with being smooth. the more relazed the faster u are

& where is this gonna happen *listen*

[JITB]

lol discussing driving tips....

[EJ25RUN]

lol discussing driving tips....

whats wrong with that?

[speedminded]

this scenario is for a mtn pass situation!!!

speedminded your giving a locked front tires scenario.....not the same thing. Again the point im trying to make is your hands are "NOT" glued to the wheel. If you need to downshift, you can (that comes with practice of learning quick shifting). Put it like this.... if im entering a turn hot (too much speed), and i realize the car is gonna go deep, naturaly ive already been able to rev match the shift in to the proper gear while braking (squeezing >into> squashing) basically trying to avoid lock up. I then put the priority to stay on the road. Even if i have to lose time, it keeps me safe and the car together!

im sure this guy \/ wishes he'd done the same.

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q290/cleary996/JanuaryMountainRun062.jpg




who are these "people" :???:I'm not talking about going too hot in a turn, saying if there is a reason you have to stop in a blind turn I can engine brake (harsh rev match) alot quicker than someone with two hands on the wheel trying to brake without downshifting. Driving schools teach you how to steer and control a car under hard breaking, there's a reason for it.

Regarding the photo, after 10 years of personally organizing mountain runs I've had ONE person involved in an incident...that was an unassociated oncoming bike that dropped and slid into one our cars (NemesisDigital).

One incident in 10 years and then only one person on any of MY runs has ever gotten a speeding ticket and that was afterwards heading south on Hwy. 400. That's out of easily 75-100 different people, some who have gone on to be professional rally drivers and pro/semi-pro drifters.

[JITB]

whats wrong with that?


its gets nowhere.. everyone drives different. right and wrong is different between each person. Somethings are the same.. but every driver drives different.

[EJ25RUN]

its gets nowhere.. everyone drives different. right and wrong is different between each person. Somethings are the same.. but every driver drives different.

there are still proven techniques that work for everyone and are good basics for people to start on.

Also thats on reason racing schools exist... they do the same thing everytime because those tasks are proven to be quick... if youve got the experience and fiqure you are quicker doing something dif then you are above that step.

Motorcycle schools are a better example. .... all ive met who took schwanz's school at road atlanta said they are a better faster rider but more importantly they are safer on the streets.

[EJ25RUN]

I'm not talking about going too hot in a turn, saying if there is a reason you have to stop in a blind turn I can engine brake (harsh rev match) alot quicker than someone with two hands on the wheel trying to brake without downshifting. Driving schools teach you how to steer and control a car under hard breaking, there's a reason for it.

Regarding the photo, after 10 years of personally organizing mountain runs I've had ONE person involved in an incident...that was an unassociated oncoming bike that dropped and slid into one our cars (NemesisDigital).

One incident in 10 years and then only one person on any of MY runs has ever gotten a speeding ticket and that was afterwards heading south on Hwy. 400. That's out of easily 75-100 different people, some who have gone on to be professional rally drivers and pro/semi-pro drifters.

ill just agree to disagree.... two different things, 1 works for you but doesnt for me

[JITB]

there are still proven techniques that work for everyone and are good basics for people to start on.

Also thats on reason racing schools exist... they do the same thing everytime because those tasks are proven to be quick... if youve got the experience and fiqure you are quicker doing something dif then you are above that step.

Motorcycle chools are a better example. .... all ive met who took schwanz's school at road atlanta said they are a better faster rider but more importantly they are safer on the streets.


i agree, but as far as this thread, goes and online. You can see that this thread ended in a argument. like i knew it would especially when i saw matthewapm posting...lol

[speedminded]

Motorcycle chools are a better example. .... all ive met who took schwanz's school at road atlanta said they are a better faster rider but more importantly they are safer on the streets.I personally think everyone should be on a motorcycle before getting in a car, bet you that would cut all accidents down by sayyy...maybe 50%?

[EJ25RUN]

i agree, but as far as this thread, goes and online. You can see that this thread ended in a argument. like i knew it would especially when i saw matthewapm posting...lol

No, it ended in an argument because most people on IA cant figure out what a discussion is or a difference in opinion.

[speedminded]

No, it ended in an argument because most people on IA cant figure out what a discussion is or a difference in opinion.That too. I simply asked what was taught because all instructors are different.

[EJ25RUN]

i gave reps for those that had good input :goodjob:

[JITB]

No, it ended in an argument because most people on IA cant figure out what a discussion is or a difference in opinion.


it will never happen..

[matthewAPM]

its gets nowhere.. everyone drives different. right and wrong is different between each person. Somethings are the same.. but every driver drives different.

your a tard. yes everyone drives different, but there are basics to racing...

[IndianStig]

excellent read!

[EJ25RUN]

excellent read!

except pages 3-5 (got kinda heated)

[WHT_EP3]

great read, when i get my license back i will practice this till then i'll just keep reading

[87 Turbo II]

The step 1 helped the most I have to say, step 2 I'll need to see if I catch myself violating and fix it, and step 3, I already knew and it DOES work (unless I'm behind a freakin mini van, then I feel so nervous that I can't look ahead, my friends don't know why it bothers me so much because they'd be fine in the same position if they were driving, but they're not used to the luxury of seeing ahead), and step 4, I kinda already found out on my own, I've only locked my wheels up twice in 2 years and I have no ABS. Good read, now I just want to be at a track!