120Hz tv.....This really is a True HD tv

[EJ25RUN]

The other day i went to Fry's and i saw the one new piece of "HD TV" that finally showed me what its all about. Ive never been fascinated with 1080p cause if you put a 1080p, 1080i, or 720p tv next to each other, its not really
much of a difference. But i finally looked at a not yet well known 120Hz LCD tv. For the first time i was beyond amazed watching a movie. It was beyond smooth and the picture looked as if you could touch the characters. Your still paying a huge premium cause the 42" sony cost $3400.00 and the Samsung.

Read these articles to better understand ~ the main thing i got is it has no fuz on high speed shots!

Review 1 (http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6449_7-6792632-1.html)

Review 2 (http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/120hz-hdtvs-the-secret-to-making-movies-look-as-smooth-as-butter-231872.php)

you prolly cant tell on your ebay monitors but take my word that the water looks as if you can splash it

http://www.slashgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/l_060821.jpg


Most 1080p TVs today are 60Hz.....................A 1080p at 120Hz
http://www.dvhardware.net/news/120hz_lcd.jpg

What you think?

[ironchef]

I don't know about you, but I've never had any weird blurring problems with my 1080p TV.

[skillzilla]

There is some ghosting with sports and high-speed pictures, but nothing drastic. I agree its probably better overall, but the prices are ridiculous (of course thats the usual with anything tech related, something new comes out and costs 4x as much for a year). BTW, if you cant tell the difference between 720p/1080i/1080p you need your eyes checked. Even two TVs, one 720p and one 1080p, using the same 720p signal, will have a huge difference. Aliasing is where you see it most.

[DemonEyez]

I don't know about you, but I've never had any weird blurring problems with my 1080p TV.

its blurring but people are so used to it they dont notice it till they see the 120hz. At fry's on the endcap they have the sony xbr series with 120hz motion flow playing a blu-ray movie in 24hz and it looks simply amazing. honestly its just unreal how good it looks.

As for tv's with 120hz the sharps fail.

the only 2 worth looking at are the sony xbr 4 or 5 and the samsung 71 or 69 series. In direct comparison ratings the xbr4 is the best of the bunch. Also when u watch a xbr tv the image almost looks like it has a little depth. Not saying 3d, but a slight feeling of depth that no other tv can display. its all in the bravia engine pro.

So yeah if u see the sharp 120hz tv and its alot cheaper just remember, thats cus its not doing jack ****. Sony and samsung share a similar logic algorithm to actually enhance the image vs the sharp just increasing frame rate.

here is a basic explanation copied from another forum incase people wanna read it. I have bolded everything i copied.



I already posted this in another thread, i put a lot of work into it and dont want to have it overlooked.

i have been hearing a lot of complaints about the 120hz tvs looking "too smooth" in the past i have complained about it to. i was ignorant to how these 120hz actually worked, below is a description on what is causing the "too smooth" look that people are complaining about and that these tvs do not have this problem if the settings are correctly set.


here is the problem you guys are seeing with the 120hz tvs.

they got these motion enhancer settings on and it tries to interpolate changes in the pictures for all 120 frames per second. in other words if i got 2 frames of a movie and the image of the move in one frame is here:



and the next frame is here

xxxxxxxxx

a tv that is set to display the native 1080p24 signal will do this (this is having motion settings set to low or off)

1st frame repeated 5x (24 x 5 = 120)








notice all similies are on the same spot horizontally on the screen as the same image is simply repeated 5 times in a row.

2nd frame
xxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxx



the motion looks realitively smooth on the screen as all frames are repeated on screen an equal amount of times and the image is exactly how it is encoded vs. a 60hz tv will do this

1st frame





2nd frame
xxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxx

notice that all frames are not repeated equal amounts which creates judder. to arrive at this a hdtv does something called a 3:2 pulldown.

a 120hz tv with motion enhancers on is going to take a 1080p24 signal and display each frame 5 times, however instead of just displaying the image as encoded it is going to try to interpolate where the image will be at in between frames and is going to go like this
is

1st frame

xx
xxxx
xxxxxx
xxxxxxxx



2nd frame
xxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

with a 120hz tv with motion settings on "on" or high" every single frame (for 120 frames) will show a different image, even though the film should only be showing 24 different frames per second (each repeated 5 times) when being displayed at native 1080p24 signal. with motion enhancers on it will not repeat the native 1080p24 signal instead it will try to guess what the 4 frames would look like between what the blu-ray player is telling it to display. this is what gives it the ridiculous smoothness look. i hope this clears things up. nothing beats a native 1080p24 signal which you can get with a 120hz tv, but not a 60hz tv. all 120hz tvs should be able to have these motion enhancers turned off.

all those xxxxs were added as space fillers and mean nothing.

[YoTa_BoX]

its blurring but people are so used to it they dont notice it till they see the 120hz. At fry's on the endcap they have the sony xbr series with 120hz motion flow playing a blu-ray movie in 24hz and it looks simply amazing. honestly its just unreal how good it looks.[/B]


omg dude i know that tv at fry's is so freakin amazing!!! and no you dont realize the blur until u see this tv. if i had the cash it would have been mine!!! they were playing ice age on it and u felt like you could touch the toons on screen.

[EJ25RUN]

There is some ghosting with sports and high-speed pictures, but nothing drastic. I agree its probably better overall, but the prices are ridiculous (of course thats the usual with anything tech related, something new comes out and costs 4x as much for a year). BTW, if you cant tell the difference between 720p/1080i/1080p you need your eyes checked. Even two TVs, one 720p and one 1080p, using the same 720p signal, will have a huge difference. Aliasing is where you see it most.

i meant not big enough diff to justify price jumps

p.s. yes $3400.00 for a 46 inch is rediculous no matter how smooth it is.

[ironchef]

Cant the human eye not see above 72 frames per second anyway? So what good would a 120hz do? Im all for new tech and cool gadgets, but this one i dunno.

[EJ25RUN]

Cant the human eye not see above 72 frames per second anyway? So what good would a 120hz do? Im all for new tech and cool gadgets, but this one i dunno.

have you seen the tv?

[ironchef]

Obviously not, I'd like to, but I haven't had a chance yet.

[nextelbuddy]

i just picked up a 52inch LCD Samsung LN-T5271 from frys few weeks ago which is 1080P with 120HZ automotion on it. and its a big difference when enabled (can turn it on or off low, med or high)

i love this tv and only paid 2800 after taxes

http://www.electronicexpress.com/images/products/large/12117.jpg
120hz automotion
16: 9 Widescreen Aspect Ratio
1920 x 1080P HD Resolution
Dynamic Contrast Ratio 25,000:1
Tuner: QAM, NTSC, ATSC
Wall Mountable: VESA Compliant
Stereo Modes: MTS Stereo with SAP
Sound Effect System: SRS Trusurround XT
Viewing Angle 178 / 178
Response Time 6ms
DNIe™
Picture in Picture Function
DB15 (PC Video) x 1Rear Input
HDMI x 3 Rear Input
RF x 2 Rear Input
Analog Audio / Video x 1 Side Input, (1) Rear Input
Component Video x 2 Rear Input
Headphone Jack x 1 Front Output
RS-232C x 1 Rear In/Out
S-Video x 1 Side Input, (1) Rear Input
USB Port x 1 USB 2.0

[DemonEyez]

yeah btw that 3600 for the 46 is retail. u can find the 46 for 2300 all day and the 52 for 3-3.5k. but they are well worth it for those who are into the a/v stuff. For those who arent, you would notice it love, it but cant say its justified. but keep in mind JVC made a 180hz tv and everyone laughed at jvc. THe tv's that will smoothen out any motion are ones that are divisible by 24 and 60. Most tv is broadcast in 60 so it would help there and movies are filmed in 24 so it would help there. thus if ur buying a new tv and love watching movies u should look for 24hz compatability.


yeah the 71's nice, altho i dont like the glossy screen. THus they have the 69 series. same thing without glossy screen

[EJ25RUN]

Obviously not, I'd like to, but I haven't had a chance yet.

please just look at the tv....then write a response because id have done the same until i saw it.... and stood in front of it for like 45 mins....yes its that good.

[YoTa_BoX]

please just look at the tv....then write a response because id have done the same until i saw it.... and stood in front of it for like 45 mins....yes its that good.


LOL i did the same damn thing man....i could not for the life of me Walk away from the damn thing. I just looked to good!!!

[EJ25RUN]

LOL i did the same damn thing man....i could not for the life of me Walk away from the damn thing. I just looked to good!!!

Gran Turismo 5 on one of these tvs :eek:

only thing missing is the smell of burnt tires, oil, & cats!

[EJ25RUN]

i just picked up a 52inch LCD Samsung LN-T5271 from frys few weeks ago which is 1080P with 120HZ automotion on it. and its a big difference when enabled (can turn it on or off low, med or high)

i love this tv and only paid 2800 after taxes

http://www.electronicexpress.com/images/products/large/12117.jpg
120hz automotion
16: 9 Widescreen Aspect Ratio
1920 x 1080P HD Resolution
Dynamic Contrast Ratio 25,000:1
Tuner: QAM, NTSC, ATSC
Wall Mountable: VESA Compliant
Stereo Modes: MTS Stereo with SAP
Sound Effect System: SRS Trusurround XT
Viewing Angle 178 / 178
Response Time 6ms
DNIe™
Picture in Picture Function
DB15 (PC Video) x 1Rear Input
HDMI x 3 Rear Input
RF x 2 Rear Input
Analog Audio / Video x 1 Side Input, (1) Rear Input
Component Video x 2 Rear Input
Headphone Jack x 1 Front Output
RS-232C x 1 Rear In/Out
S-Video x 1 Side Input, (1) Rear Input
USB Port x 1 USB 2.0

sounds like a great buy... 25,000: 1 :goodjob:

where did you buy it from?

[ISAtlanta300]

I would still wait until the technology matures. However, yes, if you were to buy a tv today, a 120hz is one i would buy.

i do have a sharp that is 60hz and it is perfectly fine for movies. it is also perfect for sports and hd cable content.

the caveat about 120hz and motion plus is simply, to look carefully at the specs of the tv. Very few do 5:5 pulldown (I believe Sony and the higher model Samsungs), while other still do the 'double 60 to 120 and then do pulldown'

Still with 120hz and automotion, you may be bound to experience motion artifact, 'ghosting' and the 'triple ball effect'.

automotion is also an aquired taste. It makes movies look like soap operas and 'fake' effects look even more 'fake'. some people like this (due to the sharpness/ quality of the picture), while some people hate it (they still prefer the 'movie screen' look).

Once the technology is truly settled, lcd's will only look better. I would assume the better sets should come out by this fall, maybe sooner.

[ChnkyLao]

I would still wait until the technology matures. However, yes, if you were to buy a tv today, a 120hz is one i would buy.

i do have a sharp that is 60hz and it is perfectly fine for movies. it is also perfect for sports and hd cable content.

the caveat about 120hz and motion plus is simply, to look carefully at the specs of the tv. Very few do 5:5 pulldown (I believe Sony and the higher model Samsungs), while other still do the 'double 60 to 120 and then do pulldown'

Still with 120hz and automotion, you may be bound to experience motion artifact, 'ghosting' and the 'triple ball effect'.

automotion is also an aquired taste. It makes movies look like soap operas and 'fake' effects look even more 'fake'. some people like this (due to the sharpness/ quality of the picture), while some people hate it (they still prefer the 'movie screen' look).

Once the technology is truly settled, lcd's will only look better. I would assume the better sets should come out by this fall, maybe sooner.

so its so good looking its a bad thing because people can catch the fakeness of movies easier? so they would rather enjoy the illusion of the movie effects rather than to enjoy how good the visual quality of the screen is?

awesome never thought of it that way.

[nextelbuddy]

so its so good looking its a bad thing because people can catch the fakeness of movies easier? so they would rather enjoy the illusion of the movie effects rather than to enjoy how good the visual quality of the screen is?

awesome never thought of it that way.

what hes saying is ( and i can agree with him after seeing it on my own tv) is that with 120HZ enabled it removes a lot of the jutter and makes everything much more crisp in motion and removes a lot of the blurring that occurs (you dont notice what is blur and what isnt until yu experience 120hz) but with 120HZ turned on it sort of looks like a bad foreign film lol so to speak kind of fake but only because you are so used to film based movies. people will get use to the surreal feel of 120HZ and it will catch on soon.

[allmotoronly]

a buddy of mine at work just got a new samsung with 120hz. He also has a sony xbr2. The difference between the two is pretty noticeable. When watching bluray movies, you can really tell the difference on any high speed scenes or action scenes and stuff like that. I dont think the average person would notice the difference though...

[Tuan]

What source puts out 120hz?

[ISAtlanta300]

so they would rather enjoy the illusion of the movie effects

Isn't this the purpose of CGI anyway?? :)

In any case, i meant more like what the other guy was saying. It makes movies look like it was filmed on a handicam.... some people like it, some don't.. and you would also be able to see the cgi stuff more like.. well cgi instead of it 'blending in'...... bottomline, it can be a distraction in that you would be paying attention to those things rather than enjoying the movie itself.

I am sure that it would prob. catch on or be perfected in the future.....or pretty sooon....

[man]

LCDs don't have refresh rates...

[TopSpeedInc]

The other day i went to Fry's and i saw the one new piece of "HD TV" that finally showed me what its all about. Ive never been fascinated with 1080p cause if you put a 1080p, 1080i, or 720p tv next to each other, its not really
much of a difference. But i finally looked at a not yet well known 120Hz LCD tv. For the first time i was beyond amazed watching a movie. It was beyond smooth and the picture looked as if you could touch the characters. Your still paying a huge premium cause the 42" sony cost $3400.00 and the Samsung.

Read these articles to better understand ~ the main thing i got is it has no fuz on high speed shots!

Review 1 (http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6449_7-6792632-1.html)

Review 2 (http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/120hz-hdtvs-the-secret-to-making-movies-look-as-smooth-as-butter-231872.php)

you prolly cant tell on your ebay monitors but take my word that the water looks as if you can splash it

http://www.slashgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/l_060821.jpg


Most 1080p TVs today are 60Hz.....................A 1080p at 120Hz
http://www.dvhardware.net/news/120hz_lcd.jpg

What you think?

I have the Black 52 inch Samsung LCD with Automotion 120hz. 1080p 25,000 :1 contrast w/ blue ray. I haven't seen anything better as of yet.

The Pirates of the Caribbean movie "Dead mans Chest" Is out of this world.

Can't wait for the super bowl!

Tray M

[man]

automotion is also an aquired taste. It makes movies look like soap operas and 'fake' effects look even more 'fake'. some people like this (due to the sharpness/ quality of the picture), while some people hate it (they still prefer the 'movie screen' look).

Agreed, I've seen the sony at fry's playing Pirates. Looked like I was watching them film it (highly undesirable). TV technology is improving so quick that the numbers are now more important than the end result. It's a multi billion dollar pissing contest with a headwind.

[Evil Goat]

lcd ftl in standard def

[Tuan]

sorry but im still trying to figure out if there is a source that will put out 120hz.

[man]

sorry but im still trying to figure out if there is a source that will put out 120hz.

I'm still trying to figure out why people think LCD displays have refresh rates.