My First Build. . .

[DAtegPilot]

Im Building a 1993 Integra, a DA. . .With a B18A1. I want to stay NA but at the same time i want to build it with enough power to be one hell of a rush on the mountains and the back roads. Id Also really prefer to stay NON-VTEC. sense i drove a buddys 2001 GSR an hated the way vtec kicked in while i was in a long corner and such.

im not sure what kind of power goal i should be looknig for sense this is my fist honda. [ I've always had Nissan or Toyota. ]

so what are some ideas and sugestions to stay around the 200-230 WHP range and be plenty of fun but still a confy daily driver.

[WhiteAccord]

Non Vtec with a powerband of 200-230.....hmmmmm

[DAtegPilot]

is that asking for too much out of that motor? with out vtec that is?

[jadakid88]

yes you are asking for alot you might as well get ebay turbo kit and run low boost. or you can buy my built ls head and get decent set of cams.

[DAtegPilot]

okay then what would be a resonable power goal for staying NA non-vtec.? that would still be loads of fun on tight ass back roads where i wont even come out of 3 [ more then likely ]


and be okay to moderate for daily driving..

im kinda used to talking about and dealing with turbo motors so i was wanting to try an NA build. . .

[GaGen2Teg]

200-230 without any kind of force induction you are gunna need alot of engine work...id say boost if you want those numbers

[DAtegPilot]

thats what im saying though im not sure what kinda of numbers are good for what i want to do that why im asking for advice.... i mean i know HOW to build a motor and do the work... im just not too good at the nath and putting together of ideas part. . .

umm. i guess it'd be safe to say that im looking for more of a low to mid range with a reliable top end for cruising on hwy. . is that doable. . . cause i know all i ever did in my MR was down the boost for putt putt and up the boost for go fast fun. . .

im looking to build a bullet-proof motor that revs about 8 or 9k [ not making power that high nessecrily but has pull to almost that ] and that can take a beating and keep on running . . . . its going to be for small backroads and mnt runs and if i can get around to it auto x every once in a while to help with my driving skill.

[dumpdaccord]

what hampers the ls motors ability to make power is the head. cheapest way to is hybrid(lsV) but ur not interested in that.

get the ls head machined along with the intake manifold, bigger throttle body,raised cr,crower cams(heard about these, dont know from exp.)...n maybe nitrous, but again thats the easy way.

all motor ls is rare because of the money but can be done.

[allmotoronly]

A more realistic goal would be about 170whp or so. Any more and you start to lose reliability. If you have tons of money to blow, then go for it. I would suggest going with a B20 block, P&P head, higher compression pistons (at least 11.5:1), eagle rods, crower stage 3 cams, crower valve springs and retainers, a good intake manifold and throttle body, a good header, and most importantly a good tune. That should put you close to 190-200whp. Those cams would not be very street friendly, but if you want that much power (N/A), you have to sacrifice streetability.

If you are looking for more N/A power, or a cheaper way to make N/A power, go VTEC.

If you want the cheapest power, you just need a basic low boost turbo setup. That would be the easiest way to make over 200whp with a LS.

[DAtegPilot]

okay cool guys thanks. im looking into a few things now. and im probly not ganna worry about the power part, just build it and see how much it makes and how it drives and if all else dose fail. . . ill boost it.

[Vteckidd]

LS motors might make 170-180whp with built engine, crazy headwork and cams, $1000 header, etc.

Going NA with a nonvtec motor is not worth the money at all.

YOu are better off boosting it.

If you want to stay NA, get a GSR motor, or do LSVTEC but even then witout supporting mods you are still looking at 150whp

[DAtegPilot]

hey btlground. . .


how much wireing would be involved in doing the gsr swap? and id like to stay non vtec cause i dont like the way it kicks in. . .

any ideas?

and like i said. i dont really know what my hores number i shoudl want is. cause i think the stock 18A1 is fun it just needs more low and mid range pull. and id like it to pull a little harder over all. . .

whats your ideas opinion. . .

[dumpdaccord]

hey btlground. . .


how much wireing would be involved in doing the gsr swap? and id like to stay non vtec cause i dont like the way it kicks in. . .

any ideas?

and like i said. i dont really know what my hores number i shoudl want is. cause i think the stock 18A1 is fun it just needs more low and mid range pull. and id like it to pull a little harder over all. . .

whats your ideas opinion. . .

compromise to your situation =h23+h22 tranny swap,boltons and youll have exactlty what your looking for...no vtec and enough torque to make you smile.

[DAtegPilot]

and the H series is in the prelude right?

and it would bolt right up?

[Vteckidd]

No the H series will not bolt up and you do not want to go that way.

Wiring for a GSR is 3 wires (Vtec Solenoid , Oil Pressure Swith) thats it.

Depends on your budget really.

If curvy roads is your thing, i wouldnt spend any money on the motor at all, id do all transmission work, and the best part about that is it wont sacrifice any reliablilty on the engine .

Id look into buyin a YS1 GSR transmission (cable) and a 4.78 ITR Final Drive with LSD.

Itll cost you prob around $1500 for all that, but the car will be 100 times faster with the short gearing.

hell even a stock B16 tranny (s1 or J1) that runs $300-500 with a light flywheel will make the car feel alot more responsive and faster.

[Vteckidd]

i guess my other question is what mods do you have now

[allmotoronly]

hey btlground. . .


how much wireing would be involved in doing the gsr swap? and id like to stay non vtec cause i dont like the way it kicks in. . .

any ideas?

and like i said. i dont really know what my hores number i shoudl want is. cause i think the stock 18A1 is fun it just needs more low and mid range pull. and id like it to pull a little harder over all. . .

whats your ideas opinion. . .

If you don't like the way vtec kicks in, just lower the vtec engagement point. Generally, the lower the engagement point, the less you will feel the transition. I've always hated vtec controllers, but they do allow you to change the vtec engagement point on the fly. You could lower it for autox or mountain runs so you arent constantly going in and out of vtec, and then you can raise it back up so you aren't constantly in and out of vtec in traffic. Also with a GSR, if you keep the stock IM with the dual runner design, the transition is a little smoother.

[AnclyT]

my advice,

get a faster car

[Jay0022]

What about a Jackson racing supercharger?
http://www.supercharger.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=33368

[DAtegPilot]

Batlgrnd - i have the YS1 already, but i think its got the long gears. if it tells you anything i do 60MPH in 5th at 2,950RPM as of yet i have no mods. [other then cut springs lol (bad idea)] what kind of trans work would i need to make it be able to take a beating on . .say every other day basis. . .and when ever i take the trans off it wont go back on w/o an LSD.

Almotronly - how much work is a VTEC controler and how do they work exactly? because if i go vtec that might be an idea.

Jay - i dont really want to do forced induction plus the jackson is done too often in my part of town

[DAtegPilot]

my advice,

get a faster car

my faster car is blown up right now:(. . . . . FYI its a 91 MR2 Turbo. .:D

[DAtegPilot]

Batlgrnd - i have the YS1 already, but i think its got the long gears. if it tells you anything i do 60MPH in 5th at 2,950RPM as of yet i have no mods. [other then cut springs lol (bad idea)] what kind of trans work would i need to make it be able to take a beating on . .say every other day basis. . .and when ever i take the trans off it wont go back on w/o an LSD.

Almotronly - how much work is a VTEC controler and how do they work exactly? because if i go vtec that might be an idea.

Jay - i dont really want to do forced induction plus the jackson is done too often in my part of town

sry to repost but it changed pages.

[allmotoronly]

Almotronly - how much work is a VTEC controler and how do they work exactly? because if i go vtec that might be an idea.


Its pretty simple. Just a little wiring into the ecu harness. There's actually a company that makes a harness adaptor so it will all just plug right up. It works by allowing you to change the point of vtec engagement to pretty much where ever you want it.

[AnthonyF]

What about a Jackson racing supercharger?
http://www.supercharger.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=33368that would actually be his best bet. b/c the turbo and vtec will "kick" in the way he doesnt want it to, where as the s/c will be perfect.

I nicely built motor and the s/c would do you wonders espically with a big weight loss.

who cares if it's done around your town too much. Do your RIGHT and put more power down than them. :goodjob:

[NAG2I]

that would actually be his best bet. b/c the turbo and vtec will "kick" in the way he doesnt want it to, where as the s/c will be perfect.

I nicely built motor and the s/c would do you wonders espically with a big weight loss.

who cares if it's done around your town too much. Do your RIGHT and put more power down than them. :goodjob:

from what i understand to put a supercharger in a DA it takes a pretty good bit of fabrication
dont know if thats what he is looking to do
and i have seen some n/a non-v setups get some bigger numbers then some of you guys are saying
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2176287&page=1
like someone said before it does take some crazy headwork but it can be done
he said he had 2000-3000 in the whole setup

[Sammich]

hell even a stock B16 tranny (s1 or J1) that runs $300-500 with a light flywheel will make the car feel alot more responsive and faster.

truth

[SiRed94]

my advice is... if you like corners... safe the money on the engine work and go to a racing school... because if vtec kicking on a stock gsr bothers you in a corner, I seriously doubt you need a 230hp FWD in the mountains....

[SiRed94]

but with that aside... as Mr. Kidd said... just try to find a shorter geared tranny such as Ys1 or S1 and get a factory lsd and you would probably be satisfied with the acceleration of that... but if you are planning on 9k, I'd recommend an aftermarket main cap girdle, lighter rotating assembly (balanced), High Pressure/Volume oil pump, ACL Race Bearings, a vtec head and some stiffer valve springs... I wouldn't recommend an Ls head hitting 9k (I've seen too much **** happen)

[DAtegPilot]

its not that the vtec kick bothers me. cause ive never actully driven a car that has vtec thats stock. . . i just dont like the way it kicks in with high power apps. and plus that what i was looking at was that a DA GSR has 160. . . so im thinking that with trans work. suspention and mild tuning i should be fine sense alot of the stuff i go and play on you cant eve get out of 3 gear on. but then at the same time i still want to be able to ride around town in 5th with out being at 4 grand. lol [exaduration, i know thats not likely in any form.] and as far as driving school, i think my driving is par for the time being.

[Vteckidd]

based on what you are saying, heres my last piece of advice.

1) Buy a Short Geared B16 CABLE LSD Tranny . You can contact Hmotorsonline.com for one, they will be PERFECT so expect to pay a premium, usually $700-900. COnsidering you can sell your stock trans for $250-300, its not so bad.

2) Buy a header (Hytech replica, i have one for sale)

3) Get a lightweight (10lb) flywheel

4) Get some real suspension

now you wont really gain any BIG power, but what you will do is shorten the gears up, an be able to be in the meat of your powerband more.

YTou really need to post your REALISTIC budget, if you have $1000 to spend, tranny is your best option. If you have $3000 to spend, all the stuff i listed is going to be good.

i wouldnt sink too much money into the LS engine performance wise, NA they suck and dont make much power. I would concentrate on the transmission mods first.

FYI my friend had a 160whp GSR in a CRX that ran 13.01s because he had a YS1 trans with a 4.78 ITR FD. The car FELT faster than my 240whp LSVTEC.

Tranmission mods are often overlooked, and can be and easy "power gain"

[speedminded]

If you don't like the way vtec kicks in, just lower the vtec engagement point.That has to be the worst suggestion in this thread.

[speedminded]

Im Building a 1993 Integra, a DA. . .With a B18A1. I want to stay NA but at the same time i want to build it with enough power to be one hell of a rush on the mountains and the back roads. Id Also really prefer to stay NON-VTEC. sense i drove a buddys 2001 GSR an hated the way vtec kicked in while i was in a long corner and such.

im not sure what kind of power goal i should be looknig for sense this is my fist honda. [ I've always had Nissan or Toyota. ]

so what are some ideas and sugestions to stay around the 200-230 WHP range and be plenty of fun but still a confy daily driver.You don't need power to be fast in the mountains, it's all about gearing, suspension, and tires. Over 200whp in a honda WITH an LSD and you'll still be spinning coming out of the turns...if the VTEC engagement bothers you then you certainly don't want to be in that situation.


Transmission - You need shorter gearing then put in an LS 5th for gas mileage :D
Suspension - A quality linear spring with a matched dampener.
Alignment - Proper camber, toe, castor, etc.
Tires - All the above is useless with out the appropriate tires.

THEN and only then work on the engine. You don't want VTEC? Try VTEC killer cams but you'll need the valve train to go with it, might as well do some headwork as well. Just to warn you the first 4 to 5k RPM's are slower than a loaded mini-van missing on 2 cylinders though but 5,000-10k RPM's is one of the best rides of your life :D

[SiRed94]

That has to be the worst suggestion in this thread.

haha

[DAtegPilot]

well i think ill still buy the one at the junk yard for 200 [motor and trans]
build the trans, suspention, brakes, and then do mild work on the motor.

as far as my budjet i dont really have one but im looking at keeping the motor/trans part around 2500, suspention around 1500-2000, and as far as brakes and tires im just gana get some good pads, change the fluid and a set of stainless line. tires for on the mountains will probly be azenis or something of that sort.

so i gues you could say that my budget for the whoel car is 5000

[speedminded]

well i think ill still buy the one at the junk yard for 200 [motor and trans]
build the trans, suspention, brakes, and then do mild work on the motor.

as far as my budjet i dont really have one but im looking at keeping the motor/trans part around 2500, suspention around 1500-2000, and as far as brakes and tires im just gana get some good pads, change the fluid and a set of stainless line. tires for on the mountains will probly be azenis or something of that sort.

so i gues you could say that my budget for the whoel car is 5000You can click the link in my sig for some ideas on an Integra :goodjob:

[DAtegPilot]

which part? the o1 teg or the autofab . . ?

[LS2ner]

My advice would prob be the same as Mr.Kidd. A b16 with basic mods would give you a peppy little engine. Spend the rest in suspension.

[DAtegPilot]

yeah well i was gann do mosly suspention anyway cause that to me is more important the power sense id rather out turn them then out run them, but im just saying in the sense i want to have more pull cause some of the spots i run at are really short twisty and steep as all get out.

[MoonScryer]

There has been a couple of threads on H-T of LS's pushing 200+ whp, but all of them were running 84+mm bores, 12+ cr compression, and things like Crower 405a cams, etc etc. and LOTS of tuning.

If you can settle for around 165-170whp, it is doable on a budget. Think B16 pistons - if a B18, not B20 - crower 404's, and ST valvesprings/retainers. You can reuse your stock rods w/o resizing on b16 pistons and the rest drops in.

Also, like everyone stated, get a b16 tranny + LS 5th. You will be loving it after that.

LS's can make power, but it costs.

[JDMJAYDC2]

what moonscryer posted!