A shop screwed up.....

[UpSideDownDesi]

So i went to a shp and they screwed up a bit on the work they did. I talked to them and they declined any further assistance unless i pay......to fix the problem they created. Now i disputed the charge and i need another shop to give me a estimate how much will it take to fix the problem. It is tune related. I just need a brief estimate how much will it cost to fix the bug in my tune. All help will be appreciated. :goodjob:
Need this pretty quick

[blackboi50]

the subie or the integra????.......wtf......i hate when shops fack up and dont wanna say they did!!!!!........1

[Alan®]

whats the problem

[UpSideDownDesi]

the subie or the integra????.......wtf......i hate when shops fack up and dont wanna say they did!!!!!........1
subie...and it's bad nuff to kill my motor...that's why subby's been grounded.

[UpSideDownDesi]

whats the problem
all i can say is shiity tune....i took it in to keep things checked in with few upgrades i made, instead of just slapping them on and calling it a day. Car went in good (even untuned on new parts) and came out with more problems. When i contacted them (NEXT DAY) i simply got turned away from any further assistance unless i pay. I had another subie owner check it out and even he couldn't believe that they looked over the problem and how bad the prob was. Tuner simply deleted that code to clear the check engine light and told me...."It should be good?" :goodjob:. I simply disputed the problem with my CC and now they wanna know how much it is gonna cost for me to get it fixed from someone else.

P.S the shop that gave me such good service is a well known shop. I won't disclose no names until matter is resolved. If i don't get nothing back. I will disclose. People who already know.....please don't post their name.

[Truegiant]

I hope you get everything fixed. Let us fellow suby owners know if you need any help!

[Nismo]

Oh oh oh I know who it is and I dont know much at all!

[Big Baller]

explain exactly what is wrong and what the situation is.

[UpSideDownDesi]

explain exactly what is wrong and what the situation is.
Not so good AFR and is knocking. I'll make it short and simple. I got the car tuned(?) and tuner wasn't able to bring my AFR where i needs to be running good and earlier (before tunning) he mentioned it needs to be 11.XX,he did try hard to do it, but was never able to bring it up higher than 9.xx. My car lost hp after the tune....not my big concern because he said it's safer now, but before the car rolled off the dyno it threw a code...misfire i believe, and he simply deleted it. Upon which i asked....will it be safe to push? He said, "should be?" after a pause. It was getting late and they were in lock down mode while my car was getting tuned...tuner was also getting calls from wife about dinner so i don't know if this was all done to be out and done with it. I took his word and went my way, but didn't feel really comfortable driving the car home. On my was home....i pushed it a little and instantly my check engine light started flashing. I slowed down.....drove normally for few miles then pushed again and it did the same thing. To which i thought okay....it's probably misfiring since ecu flashes checking engine light when it does. Next day contacted tuner and got no further assistance...he said he did his best and for any more work i'll have to pay????? Upon talking to few other people about the problem, they said the car could be knocking since my Engine management flashes check engine light when it senses knock. I grounded the car. I had a friend look at it.....who also had good knowledge. Turned out the car was knocking. He told me if i keep on pushing the car....i might as well kiss my engine bye bye. He also noticed few other thing tuner missed out. Don't get me wrong.....i have full respect for the tuner and he's a great guy. I went to him because he worked on the car before. He was in a rush to get home that day because it was getting late and he might have looked over few things in a rush, but i can't sit here with a car that i can't drive as i like to or loose my motor because someone looked over something.

LOL too much for "i'll make it brief."

[Crazy Asian]

I love you for very long time, 5 dollar? HAHAH good luck man

[IndianStig]

how much are they charging you to set it right sunny?

agree on a set, discounted amount and have them fix it.

[UpSideDownDesi]

how much are they charging you to set it right sunny?

agree on a set, discounted amount and have them fix it.
last time i talked to tuner.....regular price to fix the problem, but things have changed with him so i don't know how shop is gonna handle this (currently i am letting my CC handle all this). I am not taking my car to them to even have it fixed. When other turner (shop owner) came around to see what's goin (because it was getting late and waiting on my car do get done)....he just said a random fuel % to punch in to get my AFR right....even if it wasn't safe. I guess he didn't realize i was standing right there. Even the tuner tunning my car said..."i am not punching that in." I won't be taking my car there. My first impression of the shop was last even though some great people there. I want shop where i can drop my car off and not worry about it. I guess it was just a bad day for me.

[mushroom_toy]

IF they are a reputable shop and cant fix the **** they ****ed up, **** them lol. If they keep declining to fix it for free, I would file a lawsuit. You shouldnt have to pay for something they screwed up.

[Big Baller]

What kind of Engine Management do you have....

[Jaimecbr900]

Did you pay them to tune it or just strap it up on the dyno to see what your new numbers were?

[JITB]

dam

[UpSideDownDesi]

IF they are a reputable shop and cant fix the **** they ****ed up, **** them lol. If they keep declining to fix it for free, I would file a lawsuit. You shouldnt have to pay for something they screwed up.

no doubt, but if i can settle this easily and in a friendly manner then i'd rather do that.


What kind of Engine Management do you have....
i have TurboXs UTEC


Did you pay them to tune it or just strap it up on the dyno to see what your new numbers were?
I paid them for a tune

[iloveboost]

You can take it to any tuner and ask how many hours it will take to fully tune the car. Ask for an estimate on paper and you're good to go.

If the tuner overlooked something small and erased a code to avoid it, I'd have the entire thing retuned. If they can't take their time to tune the small things, why would you trust them to tune the drivability, WOT and everything else?

[Jaimecbr900]

Did they tell you why it couldn't be "tuned"?

[UpSideDownDesi]

You can take it to any tuner and ask how many hours it will take to fully tune the car. Ask for an estimate on paper and you're good to go.

If the tuner overlooked something small and erased a code to avoid it, I'd have the entire thing retuned. If they can't take their time to tune the small things, why would you trust them to tune the drivability, WOT and everything else?
true :goodjob:


Did they tell you why it couldn't be "tuned"?

nope...

[Jaimecbr900]

Did they quote you X amt of $ to "tune" it, or was it just a flat hourly fee?

Were they tuning on a dyno or street tuning?

[Big Baller]

no doubt, but if i can settle this easily and in a friendly manner then i'd rather do that.


i have TurboXs UTEC


I paid them for a tune

First throw away that utec and get something else. That probally has a lot to do with youre problems.

[UpSideDownDesi]

Did they quote you X amt of $ to "tune" it, or was it just a flat hourly fee?

Were they tuning on a dyno or street tuning?
hourly fee, this was done on a dyno.


First throw away that utec and get something else. That probally has a lot to do with youre problems.

I will be getting something else. There is nothing wrong with the UTEC and it is not acting up, bad tune cannot be blammed on the Engine Managment.

[Jaimecbr900]

You paid for tuning on a dyno? Then what is it that they are asking you to pay more money for? In other words, if they didn't tell you there was something wrong with something that would keep them from tuning.....what would additional time/money change?

[UpSideDownDesi]

You paid for tuning on a dyno? Then what is it that they are asking you to pay more money for? In other words, if they didn't tell you there was something wrong with something that would keep them from tuning.....what would additional time/money change?
Yes, i paid for dyno tune. I was asked to pay for the problems tune caused.....additional money fix their own work which i already paid them for.

[Big Baller]

I suspect there is probally something wrong with the car and they aren't willing to work on his car for free. If its just a bad tune then they need to man up. If your car has some kind of mechanical problem that needs to be fixed then thats not their problem and they are well with in their rights to charge you.

[Big Baller]

What are the new parts etc....that went on the car.

[Vteckidd]

subie...and it's bad nuff to kill my motor...that's why subby's been grounded.
PM me, id like to hear the complete details without it being public.

[UpSideDownDesi]

I suspect there is probally something wrong with the car and they aren't willing to work on his car for free. If its just a bad tune then they need to man up. If your car has some kind of mechanical problem that needs to be fixed then thats not their problem and they are well with in their rights to charge you.
car has NO mechanical problems or they would have brought it up when tunning. 1 issue came up and they brought it up, they fixed it, and they got paid for it. I am not holding them against something mechanical, i am holding them against the tune. :goodjob:
for some reason that post made me laugh....that's a excuse a shop would give when they know they faaked up. :lmfao: Who are you?

[UpSideDownDesi]

What are the new parts etc....that went on the car.
intake and a new filter...nothing major.

[5spdfrk]

Based on the information given, I'm pretty sure I know who it is. Shame on them if it's true.

[Vteckidd]

I know who it is by the "tuner was on the phone" comment LOL

To be honest, this kind of stuff happens with tuning. My thoughts

1) If there is a problem, it needs to be addressed before TUNING CONTINUES. IF there is something wrong or the car isnt responding, the owner needs to be notified ASAP. Reason being is dyno is by the hour. i have heard of people spending $500 for 3 hours of "trouble shooting" $140/hr.
DYNO TIME IS ALWAYS MORE EXPENSIVE THAN LABOR

2) Tuning isnt based on power INCREASES. IE if you make a bunch of changes, you dont pay when you see a hp increase. If you car magically dynoes 50whp less, then there is a problem and again you need to be notified.

3) 9:1 afr is rediculous.

4) If there was a MECHANICAL problem with why your car was running so rich an couldnt be tuned right, then youshould hve been told. simply saying "thats the best i can do" an not having a follow through conversation with what the problem may be is unaaceptable an poor customer service.

5) I understand locking up an leaving, but why were they running late in the first place? did you show up late, did they get you on the dyno late?

6) In this business sometimes there is no "closing time". you have to be willing to stay late and sacrifice. Ask 11psigsr, we were there till 230am the day before XMAS tuning his integra so he could have it back.

PM me, ill see if i can help with our tuner.

[EmminoDaGreat]

I know who it is by the "tuner was on the phone" comment LOL

To be honest, this kind of stuff happens with tuning. My thoughts

1) If there is a problem, it needs to be addressed before TUNING CONTINUES. IF there is something wrong or the car isnt responding, the owner needs to be notified ASAP. Reason being is dyno is by the hour. i have heard of people spending $500 for 3 hours of "trouble shooting" $140/hr.
DYNO TIME IS ALWAYS MORE EXPENSIVE THAN LABOR

2) Tuning isnt based on power INCREASES. IE if you make a bunch of changes, you dont pay when you see a hp increase. If you car magically dynoes 50whp less, then there is a problem and again you need to be notified.

3) 9:1 afr is rediculous.

4) If there was a MECHANICAL problem with why your car was running so rich an couldnt be tuned right, then youshould hve been told. simply saying "thats the best i can do" an not having a follow through conversation with what the problem may be is unaaceptable an poor customer service.

5) I understand locking up an leaving, but why were they running late in the first place? did you show up late, did they get you on the dyno late?

6) In this business sometimes there is no "closing time". you have to be willing to stay late and sacrifice. Ask 11psigsr, we were there till 230am the day before XMAS tuning his integra so he could have it back.

PM me, ill see if i can help with our tuner.


lolololol

[Big Baller]

9 to 1 is dangerous, you are going to wash down the cylinder walls.

[UpSideDownDesi]

I know who it is by the "tuner was on the phone" comment LOL

To be honest, this kind of stuff happens with tuning. My thoughts

1) If there is a problem, it needs to be addressed before TUNING CONTINUES. IF there is something wrong or the car isnt responding, the owner needs to be notified ASAP. Reason being is dyno is by the hour. i have heard of people spending $500 for 3 hours of "trouble shooting" $140/hr.
DYNO TIME IS ALWAYS MORE EXPENSIVE THAN LABOR

2) Tuning isnt based on power INCREASES. IE if you make a bunch of changes, you dont pay when you see a hp increase. If you car magically dynoes 50whp less, then there is a problem and again you need to be notified.

3) 9:1 afr is rediculous.

4) If there was a MECHANICAL problem with why your car was running so rich an couldnt be tuned right, then youshould hve been told. simply saying "thats the best i can do" an not having a follow through conversation with what the problem may be is unaaceptable an poor customer service.

5) I understand locking up an leaving, but why were they running late in the first place? did you show up late, did they get you on the dyno late?

6) In this business sometimes there is no "closing time". you have to be willing to stay late and sacrifice. Ask 11psigsr, we were there till 230am the day before XMAS tuning his integra so he could have it back.

PM me, ill see if i can help with our tuner.

agreed....car was/is mechanically perfect so far... amd i am prbly gonna get it checked for anything that seems out of place mechanically. (it was put togheter by Will at SOG in March of 07....brand new motor, and tuned by the same turner only put 3k miles on it since then. I got there on time so there was no delay from my side.

[Vteckidd]

The way i deal with cars like that is the SECOND there is a problem, i inform the customer an make them choose whether we fix the problem an keep going, or they ix the problem and come back.

I try not to spend more than 1 hour on TROUBLE shooting. if i cant find the problem in an hour, its best to cut time there an move on.

I dont mean abandon the customer, i mean dont waste any more of their TUNING time. Tuning is for TUNING. if there is a problem that prevents TUNING, then you need to set an appt up to fix the problem.

Again its $140/hr versus $80/hr

that keeps people from feeling like they spent $500 for nothing.

[UpSideDownDesi]

The way i deal with cars like that is the SECOND there is a problem, i inform the customer an make them choose whether we fix the problem an keep going, or they ix the problem and come back.

I try not to spend more than 1 hour on TROUBLE shooting. if i cant find the problem in an hour, its best to cut time there an move on.

I dont mean abandon the customer, i mean dont waste any more of their TUNING time. Tuning is for TUNING. if there is a problem that prevents TUNING, then you need to set an appt up to fix the problem.

Again its $140/hr versus $80/hr

that keeps people from feeling like they spent $500 for nothing.[/

:yes: i spent $400 and came out with more problems and lost hp/tq (a nice drop). If he couldn't tune it he should have told me in his first hour of tunning instead of keeping me there and keep on charging me without accomplishing anything.

[mushroom_toy]

Lawsuit. Hopefully you could prove something was done wrong lol.

[UpSideDownDesi]

Lawsuit. Hopefully you could prove something was done wrong lol.
no need unlesss i can get this taken care of on good notes.

[mushroom_toy]

Yeah but I mean I sure as hell wouldnt pay for it again. If you decide to pay for their mistakes youre just giving in.

[UpSideDownDesi]

Yeah but I mean I sure as hell wouldnt pay for it again. If you decide to pay for their mistakes youre just giving in.
i am not paying again....i talked to few other shops and they said if everything was on and good t go it should have taken 1hr to tune it....about $140-160 for the tune. Compared to $400 i paid. I will be looking at some kind of compensation.

[mushroom_toy]

Thats good then. A good way to go about it.

[AnthonyF]

at least ur sh*t didnt blow up like mine due to a bad tune. :( good luck mang. I'll hit u up when Im back to full boost

[UpSideDownDesi]

at least ur sh*t didnt blow up like mine due to a bad tune. :( good luck mang. I'll hit u up when Im back to full boost
lol it would have if i wouldn't have caught it.

[takume]

that's terrible. i hate shop screw up my car. your first time to that shop? hope u solve the problem soon.

[§treet_§peed]

that is some ****ed up bs..

[Got Milk?]

can u sue them for stuff like that?

[AnthonyF]

can u sue them for stuff like that?

no. With aftermarket performance ****, usually it is a no warranty except on the parts if they fail. Which is hardly ever.

[UpSideDownDesi]

i'll keep y'all up dated...lets see what happens.

[GTScoob]

Best of luck to you with working this out.

[Got Milk?]

yea man, best of luck.

[The Dude]

maybe he messed something up while he was tuning your car and talking on his cell phone.

[Big J]

9:1 AFR and flashing MIL is probably a mutliple cylinder misfire from a rich misfire.

It might actually be richer because even a wideband will only read so rich.

Sounds like it's on them.

[TopSpeedInc]

I think there is more to the story than being told. I have talked with the tuner and I don't think there is anything tuning related that may have caused this issue.

From what I was told your car had numerous mechanical issues. Some of which were fixed, but others weren't. One of them being your turbo with had terminal boost creep in 5th and 6th. I believe you were told of this and yet you still decided to run your car WOT in 5th and 6th.

That is not a tuners fault.

[Tracy]

all i can say is shiity tune....i took it in to keep things checked in with few upgrades i made, instead of just slapping them on and calling it a day. Car went in good (even untuned on new parts) and came out with more problems. When i contacted them (NEXT DAY) i simply got turned away from any further assistance unless i pay. I had another subie owner check it out and even he couldn't believe that they looked over the problem and how bad the prob was. Tuner simply deleted that code to clear the check engine light and told me...."It should be good?" :goodjob:. I simply disputed the problem with my CC and now they wanna know how much it is gonna cost for me to get it fixed from someone else.

P.S the shop that gave me such good service is a well known shop. I won't disclose no names until matter is resolved. If i don't get nothing back. I will disclose. People who already know.....please don't post their name.

How did you contact them and who did you speak with?

[Nismo]

Oh snap it sounds like its the opposite of low not speed's fault......

[Big Baller]

How did you contact them and who did you speak with?

He contacted the tuner.....on his cell phone.

[Tracy]

He contacted the tuner.....on his cell phone.Oh that explains it. Glad I don't have that issue to deal with anymore. No one ever listens to me!!!

You go to McD's and order a quarter pounder with cheese. You get it home and it doesn't have cheese on it. You somehow have the employee of McD's cell phone number and you call it to complain. He says he will be happy to give you cheese if you pay for it. Instead of calling McD's and speaking with the manager, you call your CC company and ask for your money back then tell all of your friends how McD's screwed you out of your cheese...all the while you never even called McD's to see if they had a better answer for you. 2 months later McD's finds out about the situation on-line and the employee is no longer employed there. What do you want McD's to do now? Fire the employee (that you complained to on his CELL PHONE) that no longer works there????

[siegelracing]

So 3 months ago Upsidedowndesi brought the car to me for tuning at Batlground. The car had multiple mechanical issues. There appeared to be serious electronic (mechanical) issues.

Shortly into the tuning the car shut off and refused to restart. (this prevented any further tuning until fixing the problem)

Diagnosing the "unable to start issue" required creating an opensource map to run the car without the UTEC (this was tuning)

Once the mechanical issue (that had left the customer stranded on the side of the road on multiple occasions) was FIXED we commenced tuning.

The car still had issues and Upsidedowndesi and I agreed that he needed to change engine management. The car was tuned as safely as seemed possible with continued underlying issues.

After WELL over 4 hours of working on the car, and quite late in the evening (our appointment time having been stretched by the unscheduled mechanical issues = car not ready for tuning) we agreed he would change engine management and retune. Despite well over 4 hours ON THE DYNO, he was charged 2 hours of tuning and 1 hour of labor.

I believe that I was quite generous and he received more work than he paid for.

The next day, he PM'd me that he thought I should get his car perfect with the UTEC for FREE, or give him his money back. I still felt that he had received more work than he paid for and did not feel I owed him free work or a refund. His car would no longer leave him stranded and was safe through 4th gear (as I told him). I thought we had been in agreement to change engine management.

I will attach the PM's below.

Siegel

[siegelracing]

Originally Posted by UpSideDownDesi
thanks for taking care of EGT glitch and tunning the car, but i am not really happy with the tune man. The car is feeling weaker than before. I played with it on my way home and i don't feel the same pull as before. I know you put in time and tried getting the Air-Fuel Ratio good, but for me to fork out $406, still not gain anything and have almost or less whp/tq numbers/AFR/other numbers as first untuned pull doesn't help. I saw whp/wtq loss, something i was expecting to go up with a new straight intake pipe. I wasn't expecting the tab to be this high considering it was just new intake and you tweaking your old map on it. I am working really hard for my money right now, and every dollar goes long way. I would like to bring the car back and get the figures right so i can feel the money i spent didn't go to waste and walk away happy.

replied by siegel
I'm sorry you are feeling that way. Technically 4 hours on the dyno should have cost $640. The $406 was cutting quite a break. I feel that I did put in well over two solid hours of tuning and a full hour of mechanical labor.

The car MIGHT have been leaner with that old pipe. We didn't dyno it on the old pipe. The final pull was still higher than the first pull.

After putting in a proper pipe, all the tuning that I did made it leaner (telling it that the injectors are bigger, and putting much lower numbers in the fuel map...) which should be making it faster. I still think that you might have a boost leak, and there are obviously still boost control issues...

If I had made a mistake or missed something then I would of course fix it at no cost/not charge originally. However, the ordeal of flashing the ecu, removing the UTEC, and working our way to the EGT diagnosis was addressing what I believed to be a much more important issue, but not one that added power. I didn't cause it, and there was no way to diagnose it faster. Therefore, I can't "eat" the time/cost.

I will do everything I can to make you a happy customer, but I can't do it for free.

I felt that we had made HUGE gains for the $406. To have a car that should run more consistently and more importantly not SHUT OFF AND LEAVE YOU STRANDED, I though was more important than another 10 horsepower.

I feel that you have received appropriate work for what you paid for. We can certainly move forward and make more power, but at the normal rate.

You know that I am generous with my time, but right now, I believe that the $$$/work that has been spent so far is fair.

Additional work will also be done at a fair price.

Let me know if you want to proceed with some of the plans we discussed.

Thanks,
Siegel

Originally Posted by UpSideDownDesi
hi scott,
can you reply back plz, if you can't re-tune the car and take care of the issues or questions i have...i would like to get credit back for the tune time because i'll just be taking the car back to another shop the get issues fixed. I can't afford anything to go wrong in the car. I saw the check engine light blinking under full woot in 5th and 6th gear. I am pretty sure it's the same code you deleted after taking the car off dyno. I will bring the car back, but to also get other problems fixed that didn't get taken care of that night....all covered under previous tune time i paid for. Let me know....thanks.

replied by siegel
Sorry for the delay. We have been very busy at the shop.

There is no credit to get back. You paid for services rendered. I worked on the car, fixing a number of issues that HAD TO BE FIXED IN ORDER TO TUNE, then you paid for the work that was done.

This was not a situation where I was working on something "extra." The car would not run to work on horsepower. The "stalling/egt" issue HAD to be fixed because the car WOULD NOT RUN. There was no way to "work on horsepower" with the car not able to run at full throttle.

As we discussed, I believe the flashing CEL could be due to your boost control issue.

If you go to the dentist for a cleaning, and he finds another problem, you generally have to schedule another appointment to fix it. You still have to pay for both appointments.

We were unable to tune for hp, and to tune on the street due to a MECHANICAL problem that used up your appointment time. Having used your appointment time to get the car running, you must make a new appointment for additional tuning. You obviously must pay for the work done to fix the problem. Then you will also have to pay for additional work.

I am sorry that there seems to have been a misunderstanding, but the current situation is that you have paid for services rendered. Additional services will require additional payment.

Siegel

[quote=UpSideDownDesi]Thanks for the reply, I understand that when the EGT problem took over you weren't able to tune the car and focused on taking care of that problem first and i paid for that time separate. After taking care of the EGT problem the car was back to normal and you did pulls on it to work on Hp and better up the numbers....tunning it. Your whole time didn't go toward fixing the EGT problem. Car was mechanically fine before EGT problem came up and after it got fixed...you were able to tune the car. I know if i go to the dentist to get something taken care of and if they find something new the set me up for another appt, but at the same time they don't charge for the service they left incomplete and tell me to come again and pay for it again. You say i have to bring the car back in to get it tuned. I did bring it in for a tune last time and paid for tune time. From what i remember you said the check engine light flashes when the car is misfiring and that's the code that came up when you were taking the car off the dyno. The car might be misfiring at high RPM's and full boost.....def is not a safe thing. I know u deleted the code so i could pass emission, but at the same time i also wanted to know what caused it to misfire because it only happened in the end after messing around with the maps. Scott i could have slapped the new pipe on and called it a day if i wanted a car with trouble. Only reason i brought the car in was i didn't want any problems and get the AFR, hp, tq numbers up and straight. I have seen you tune, respect you as a tuner, and def don't want this to be my last time getting my car tuned from you. I know you were in a rush to get home that night since it was getting late. I certainly don't want this lil problem to keep me away from getting my car done from you in future. I don't like to go from shop to shop or tuner to tuner....reason i brought the car back to you since you worked in it initially. Give it a thought and tell me if can fix my states issues or credit back then let me know...i'll take that as ur final answer.


replied by siegel
Most of the EGT diagnosis was tuning. I had to make a map to let us remove the UTEC. Technically ALL time spent ON the dyno should be charged as tuning, at $155 per hour. If a mechanical issue stops the tuning you should be allowed to make a FUTURE appointment for mechanical labor. I was trying to be helpful by trying to fix a car that wouldn't run to get you home.

You did not pay for a "service left incomplete" you paid 3 hours for over 4 hours spent working on it. Tuning is a $$$/Hour thing, not a "flat-rate" ($$$/job) thing.

I should also have stopped working at 7pm when we officially close, but again, I wanted to get you the best running car that I could in a reasonable amount of time.

As I see it, it comes down to this:

1) Your car was on the dyno for OVER 4 hours
2) You paid for 3 hours, one of which I "generously" set as "mechanical labor" at $80/hour instead of tuning at $155/hour

You have already received more service than you paid for (I am always a little generous). I am happy to work on your car again in the future, and I will be fair with the charge, but it can't be free.

Please let me know if you would like to set up another appointment,
Siegel

[ueyedgr8tness]

:ninja: O holy shi* can i share some love. desi i would say just park that suby untill u can get all the kinks out of the car mechanical issue's before trying to tune it.cause tuning a car and fixing a cars problems= alot of time and $ thats why its best when a tuner like ''scott'' tells u something is wrong and needs to be done before tune its best to just do what he suggest because he has tuned alot of suby's and wouldn't want u to wast his time trying to tune something he already no haves mechanical problems and is not going to make a good tune:goodjob:

[Vteckidd]

this "i make less hp than before" is prob him comparing SOGs old DYNOPAC to our DYNOJET.

The car had mechanical problems , Tuning is TIME ON A DYNO. IT IS NOT "IF YOU MAKE HORSEPOWER"

/THREAD

[Capt._Ron]

this "i make less hp than before" is prob him comparing SOGs old DYNOPAC to our DYNOJET.

The car had mechanical problems , Tuning is TIME ON A DYNO. IT IS NOT "IF YOU MAKE HORSEPOWER"

/THREAD

That is a good point so basically what it comes down to is the guy got a street tune on a car that shouldn't have been tuned in the first place because it was not mechanically sound.

To the subie guy- You will never win this fight on IA aka battlegroundleghumpers.com

[Tracy]

That is a good point so basically what it comes down to is the guy got a street tune on a car that shouldn't have been tuned in the first place because it was not mechanically sound.

To the subie guy- You will never win this fight on IA aka battlegroundleghumpers.comPretty uncalled for :)

[Capt._Ron]

Pretty uncalled for :)

You should be proud you know its true. I wouldn't start a e-fight with you guys you roll to deep.

Please tell me you are getting a kouki front end and a full race 30-71 kit for your drift baby.

[Big Baller]

Theres no fight to win....did you even read the thread

[AnthonyF]

That is a good point so basically what it comes down to is the guy got a street tune on a car that shouldn't have been tuned in the first place because it was not mechanically sound.

To the subie guy- You will never win this fight on IA aka battlegroundleghumpers.com

i agree wit tracy...but who the fuk likes BG anyways? GAWSH.



mr kidd or tracy doesnt matter: when they "mustang dyno" which company is that or is that the name of the dyno? also, which in YOUR opinion is the most accurate dyno?

[Big Baller]

i agree wit tracy...but who the fuk likes BG anyways? GAWSH.



mr kidd or tracy doesnt matter: when they "mustang dyno" which company is that or is that the name of the dyno? also, which in YOUR opinion is the most accurate dyno?


Mustang Dyno is their own brand and there is really no such thing as an accurate dyno....its really all theory.

The most accurate dyno is the drag strip.

[Vteckidd]

The most accurate dyno is the drag strip.
or any other racing event :D

[TopSpeedInc]

WWW.TOPSPEEDSALES.COM

[Vteckidd]

Batlground.com

[GAtegs]

cheese.com

[2.3 Evo 8]

Desi, if you know anything about tuning you would know A/F's that low means something is wrong with the car, not necessarily the tune. Sounds like a serious boost leak. Pressurize the system and spray soapy water on everything from piping, couplers, throttle body, and manifold gaskets. Make sure to check for cracks in the manifolds also.

If the tuner says they tried everything possible(tuning wise) to get the A/F's correct and nothing would happen, it's not the tuning.

Also, I've never seen an air filter and intake piping change the A/F's from 11:1 to 9:1.

Do a boost leak check and I'm sure you'll find the problem. Let us know how it goes.



When you've been in a certain field for a number of years you become pretty comfortable while working. Being on a cell phone tuning a car or any other job for that matter is not considered professional, but keep in mind, a missed call from your wife could mean a couple nights on the couch. Sometimes it's better to seem unprofessional then to deal with wife issues. If your not married yet, you won't know what I mean.

I think the tuner is right in this situation. Next time the car is getting tuned and issues come up, stop the tuning immediately, and bring the car back another day.

I recently had a similar situation at Topspeed. The injector duty cycle was too high and the A/F's were off substantially and we didn't know why. After tuning for about 30 minutes with no luck, we began troubleshooting the issue. It turns out one of the vacuum lines was off and hiding under the manifold out of sight. We reconnected the line and the A/F's were back in check and the duty cycle was dropped.

The littlest things can cause the biggest problems.


Edit: BTW, tuning should have taken 30 minutes TOPS on my car, but because of that little issue I paid for 1 1/2 hours. Sucks, but as the saying goes "you gotta pay to play".

[Alan®]

sunny I have met you before and think you are a stand up guy but obviously the car had mechanical issues whether you realized it or not. i am no tunning genious but know enoguh to say that little things can cause big problems and all the tunning in the world will not fix pre-existing mechanical problems/failuires. i suggest you do what stay up said and park the subie go back to driving the acura and sock away the money to get the car running perfectly before trying to tune. the last thing you need is to have a motor with 2500 miles on it to blow up on you simply because you failed to fix a mechanical problems. Also be glad you haven't sold this car yet as you would be in a big heap of **** with the new owner.

[The Yousef]

www.sprint.com

[2.3 Evo 8]

Can I have "boost leak for $1000" Alex.

[Alan®]

*Sean Connery Voice*Anal Bum Cover for $500 please

[Capt._Ron]

Your wager..... Texas ... with a dollar sign in front of it.... brilliant!

[UpSideDownDesi]

So 3 months ago Upsidedowndesi brought the car to me for tuning at Batlground. The car had multiple mechanical issues. There appeared to be serious electronic (mechanical) issues.

Shortly into the tuning the car shut off and refused to restart. (this prevented any further tuning until fixing the problem)

Diagnosing the "unable to start issue" required creating an opensource map to run the car without the UTEC (this was tuning)

Once the mechanical issue (that had left the customer stranded on the side of the road on multiple occasions) was FIXED we commenced tuning.

The car still had issues and Upsidedowndesi and I agreed that he needed to change engine management. The car was tuned as safely as seemed possible with continued underlying issues.

After WELL over 4 hours of working on the car, and quite late in the evening (our appointment time having been stretched by the unscheduled mechanical issues = car not ready for tuning) we agreed he would change engine management and retune. Despite well over 4 hours ON THE DYNO, he was charged 2 hours of tuning and 1 hour of labor.

I believe that I was quite generous and he received more work than he paid for.

The next day, he PM'd me that he thought I should get his car perfect with the UTEC for FREE, or give him his money back. I still felt that he had received more work than he paid for and did not feel I owed him free work or a refund. His car would no longer leave him stranded and was safe through 4th gear (as I told him). I thought we had been in agreement to change engine management.

I will attach the PM's below.

Siegel

I'll post what i posted on WRXatlanta:

Scott please don't say things that are not true. Car didn't have "multiple serious issues" hence you should have told me about them if they were so serious. Only serious one that came up was the "car shutting off" and it came up after 2 pulls and took 1 hr to fix after that car was back to normal. U didn't not tell me of any other mechanical issues that kept you from tunning my car (which you should have if they were serious like you said). BTW i made you inform about the "car shutting off randomly issue" as soon you put the car on dyno and you said, "we'll check it out if it comes up." You knew about it to when Will was trying to figure it out. So it didn't come outta the blue.

You never did a 5th gear+ pull on the car. Maybe you are thinking you took my car on the street, but u didn't. You said it yourself, "i take the cars i tune on the street after the tune, but i can't take yours out because it's dark outside." It puzzled me for a sec, but i let that one by. May be u didn't take it out because you were getting late? You said upgrade to Access Port because it's a better EM and i said, yes i will in future. No where you said that UTEC was keeping you from tunning the car or else i would have stopped right then and there instead you kept on trying and that costed me money.

The "opensource map" was you simply running the car on stock ECU to see if it was UTEC that was causing shutting off problem, but it wasn't.

**Scott you NEVER told me that the car wasn't 4th+ gear safe (however way you found out that it wasn't)? I would have never taken that car home that night knowing the unsafe condition it was in (i am sure ppl who know me, know how i am when it comes to my cars and caring about them...especially when good bit invested in it and i worked very had for every penny in the car). So knowingly you let me go with the car that u knew wasn't safe for the street without informing me about it? You just agreed on that you gave me a unsafe car and charged me for it.

Can you please state the other "serious electronic mechanical issues".....other than shutting off and everyone's fav UTEC lol

You didn't not put 4hrs tunning that car.....you put in 2 hours and i agree with that. I came in 3:15....i sat down for few mins....you took the keys...3:50 car was on the dyno...you took ur lunch break.....4:20 you came out....new intake and filter was installed. First pull was at 4:30 and car came off the dyno at 8:30...tunning stopped at 8:00. That's 3 hrs 30 mins on dyno....1 hour to fix the mechanical issue.....2 hours 30 mins on dyno then you spent good 30-45mins helping the other guy on a Blue STi....taking the motor out then discussing how this is the owners 4th motor, why some built blocks are worthelss, few things about the parts laying around, etc etc (I don't see how helping someone else on a different car is tunning my car). Then 15-20min talking outside talking to the guys when they where stripping down BG drift car.....if i break it down that is less that 2 hours of dyno tune time.

You are basically saying you spent all the time to fix my shutting off problem? That would be 3hrX$80. Can you also state what progress or what were you able to achieve tunning my car. How did u make it safer? Here's the dyno chart. 1st untuned pull looks exact same as last pull (last pull...i have no clue what as going on on that one), only with car loosing power and AFR still off the chart and what i saw was 9:1.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c21/Vteckidd/Sunnym.jpg



Very funny with jokes..i like cheese, but i don't like Hamburger.......i don't eat hamburgers so tank you come again lol.

Tracy didn't mean to bash on BG.....Mike shed some light on me. Y'all have been very helpful.

[UpSideDownDesi]

CAR HAS NO FAACKING SERIOUS MECHANICAL ISSUES or it did when the car went in for tunning. Like i said.....1 issue came up and it was fixed. I am not a jackass to sit here and make myself look stupid. Even scott himself said that, "it can't be leaking boost." when he tuned the car. I would know a serious issue when driving the car....only one so far was/is the knock problem and car running rich.

[siegelracing]

I've tuned that car since it was a pile of parts in boxes in the back seats. The previous owner was advised to change EM. He didn't want to because he was just getting it running to sell.

When you bought the car you were advised to change EM. I thought you had agreed. That particular car, with the hybrid motor and some continuous issues (since the car was assembled), needs more EM than UTEC (the fighting between ecu and piggyback makes diagnosis virtually impossible).

There is a reason that it can't safely be leaned out... again, I thought we were in agreement to start by changing EM.

When you left, you asked if it was safe to beat on (as you posted above). My response of "should be" came with the qualifier of "through 4th gear"

I'm sorry to appear harsh, but it really all comes down to this:

we have agreed that you got at least as much work done as you paid for, therefore you are not entitled to a refund or additional work for free

Originally Posted by UpSideDownDesi
how's it goin Scott,
Remember i talked to you about getting the car tweaked and tuned with a new intake pipe and filter, plus see what's going on with my UTEC. When can i come it...i am free next week afternoon time after 2:30. Sucks all these upgrade and running almost stock. How much was the tweak with the new intake?
P.S no the car didn't get sold lol.

replied by Siegel
I thought that you were going to get some "real" engine management... I actually thought you were selling it. Anyway, what turbo is on it? What do you want to do for EM? Next week is already over-booked. We are booking into the following week. We are at Nopi right now (I'm replying curteousy of one of our members - O2 Secure Wireless). Mike will be back at BG next Tuesday. Give him a call and he can book you an appointment.

Siegel

[Tracy]

Desi, if you know anything about tuning you would know A/F's that low means something is wrong with the car, not necessarily the tune. Sounds like a serious boost leak. Pressurize the system and spray soapy water on everything from piping, couplers, throttle body, and manifold gaskets. Make sure to check for cracks in the manifolds also.

If the tuner says they tried everything possible(tuning wise) to get the A/F's correct and nothing would happen, it's not the tuning.

Also, I've never seen an air filter and intake piping change the A/F's from 11:1 to 9:1.

Do a boost leak check and I'm sure you'll find the problem. Let us know how it goes.



When you've been in a certain field for a number of years you become pretty comfortable while working. Being on a cell phone tuning a car or any other job for that matter is not considered professional, but keep in mind, a missed call from your wife could mean a couple nights on the couch. Sometimes it's better to seem unprofessional then to deal with wife issues. If your not married yet, you won't know what I mean.

I think the tuner is right in this situation. Next time the car is getting tuned and issues come up, stop the tuning immediately, and bring the car back another day.

I recently had a similar situation at Topspeed. The injector duty cycle was too high and the A/F's were off substantially and we didn't know why. After tuning for about 30 minutes with no luck, we began troubleshooting the issue. It turns out one of the vacuum lines was off and hiding under the manifold out of sight. We reconnected the line and the A/F's were back in check and the duty cycle was dropped.

The littlest things can cause the biggest problems.


Edit: BTW, tuning should have taken 30 minutes TOPS on my car, but because of that little issue I paid for 1 1/2 hours. Sucks, but as the saying goes "you gotta pay to play".

It's NEVER ok to be on the phone while at work unless it is work related...and then it must go through the front office. Your wife can leave a message. Once upon a time, like 5 years ago, there were no cell phones and that's the way everything worked. Your wife left a message at the front desk. This is a perfect example of why being on the phone is unprofessional and I will stand by that. The customer thinks he was cheated, #1, and #2 the "issue" never made it to the proper person to be dealt with. That being said, to me it's not about the mechanical issue, although I know it IS an issue. That was an easy thing to hash out. It happens everyday. Working on cars is like surgery. There are a ton of bits and pieces that have to work together and if one has a problem, the whole thing has a problem. We know how to deal with those situations and make people understand. To me the issue with our shop name could have been sorted out if the customer had called the front office. That's not to bash on him, it's just to reiterate the point. Management should be in charge of situations like this. I would have liked to have known there was an issue 3 months ago and maybe it wouldn't have gotten to this point now. The fact is that it did and our shop name has been dragged through the mud with this customers friends before we even had a chance to know what was going on.

Like I said on WRXAtlanta: Glad this is being hashed out. Good luck with everything guys. Like I already said, be careful what you say and who you say it to. People's livelihood may depend on your hasty statements. Make sure you have exhausted all proper outlets before you cancel CC payments

Also, people who read on the Internet or hear about an encounter your friend may have ha...take it with a grain of salt there are usually 3 sides to every story.


:tongue1:

[Vteckidd]

Im a surgeon, cutting for the very first time

[ueyedgr8tness]

Im a surgeon, cutting for the very first time


:yes:

[UpSideDownDesi]

I've tuned that car since it was a pile of parts in boxes in the back seats. The previous owner was advised to change EM. He didn't want to because he was just getting it running to sell.

When you bought the car you were advised to change EM. I thought you had agreed. That particular car, with the hybrid motor and some continuous issues (since the car was assembled), needs more EM than UTEC (the fighting between ecu and piggyback makes diagnosis virtually impossible).

There is a reason that it can't safely be leaned out... again, I thought we were in agreement to start by changing EM.

When you left, you asked if it was safe to beat on (as you posted above). My response of "should be" came with the qualifier of "through 4th gear"

I'm sorry to appear harsh, but it really all comes down to this:

we have agreed that you got at least as much work done as you paid for, therefore you are not entitled to a refund or additional work for free

Originally Posted by UpSideDownDesi
how's it goin Scott,
Remember i talked to you about getting the car tweaked and tuned with a new intake pipe and filter, plus see what's going on with my UTEC. When can i come it...i am free next week afternoon time after 2:30. Sucks all these upgrade and running almost stock. How much was the tweak with the new intake?
P.S no the car didn't get sold lol.

replied by Siegel
I thought that you were going to get some "real" engine management... I actually thought you were selling it. Anyway, what turbo is on it? What do you want to do for EM? Next week is already over-booked. We are booking into the following week. We are at Nopi right now (I'm replying curteousy of one of our members - O2 Secure Wireless). Mike will be back at BG next Tuesday. Give him a call and he can book you an appointment.

Siegel
Scott never did you mention to me that you won't be safely able to tune my car. Never did you say UTEC was holding you back. "When are you going to get real engine management", says nothing. Also you failed to tell me that the car wasn't 4th+ gear safe. There was no "qualifier." Haha why would i take a car home that is only good till 4th gear when i have 2 more gears left??? Car came in running good in all gears and left running good only up to 4th gear? If there was a problem with the car i would have told you when I initially contacted you. I paid for a full tune not tune upto 4th gear, if you were not able to tune my car should have let me known right that moment so we could have stopped. I don't make BS up and only stand behind when i know i got done wrong.....anyone is welcomed to prove me wrong on that. Scott knowing the person you are, last thing i would expect from you is making things up and lying/being unprofessional to cover yourself......which i saw here. I respected you even after the tune, but i don't any more. I am sorry to say, but you straight up ripped me off and did a bad tune...then didn't take any responsibility. Why do u think i came to you when i needed the car to get tweaked, when other told me go diff places? I should have listened.

[2.3 Evo 8]

It's NEVER ok to be on the phone while at work unless it is work related...and then it must go through the front office. Your wife can leave a message. Once upon a time, like 5 years ago, there were no cell phones and that's the way everything worked. Your wife left a message at the front desk. This is a perfect example of why being on the phone is unprofessional and I will stand by that. The customer thinks he was cheated, #1, and #2 the "issue" never made it to the proper person to be dealt with. That being said, to me it's not about the mechanical issue, although I know it IS an issue. That was an easy thing to hash out. It happens everyday. Working on cars is like surgery. There are a ton of bits and pieces that have to work together and if one has a problem, the whole thing has a problem. We know how to deal with those situations and make people understand. To me the issue with our shop name could have been sorted out if the customer had called the front office. That's not to bash on him, it's just to reiterate the point. Management should be in charge of situations like this. I would have liked to have known there was an issue 3 months ago and maybe it wouldn't have gotten to this point now. The fact is that it did and our shop name has been dragged through the mud with this customers friends before we even had a chance to know what was going on.

Like I said on WRXAtlanta: Glad this is being hashed out. Good luck with everything guys. Like I already said, be careful what you say and who you say it to. People's livelihood may depend on your hasty statements. Make sure you have exhausted all proper outlets before you cancel CC payments

Also, people who read on the Internet or hear about an encounter your friend may have ha...take it with a grain of salt there are usually 3 sides to every story.


:tongue1:

I'm my own boss and I wear an ear piece occasionally while working plus I rarely deal with the customer one on one. I guess it depends on the line of work.


You are right though, there is always 3 sides to every story.

[2.3 Evo 8]

Boost leak results?

[Vteckidd]

I think its pretty clear what happened.

case closed

[Tracy]

welp so much for that :)

[Maniac1]

I think its pretty clear what happened.

case closed
This may be true, but im sure there are alot more people who might want to put their two cents into this. If the thread starter didn't request for his thread to be locked, I don't think someone should just lock it because they think the case is closed.

[Vteckidd]

Well lets recap:

Customer posted he was upset with tuner
Tuner responded
Customer claims tuner is lying
Tuner responds with detailed PMs about the conversation
Customer still feels like he was cheated

all the facts are out, people can form their own opinions. I was going to lock it to avoid drama and 20 more pags of he said she said.

Ill be watching this closely

[GAtegs]

This may be true, but im sure there are alot more people who might want to put their two cents into this. If the thread starter didn't request for his thread to be locked, I don't think someone should just lock it because they think the case is closed.

It's not locked anymore...what are you whining about?

[AnthonyF]

It's not locked anymore...what are you whining about?How was his post considerded whining? the case is closed and should have stayed lock. but it's Mr. Kidds decision.

[Vteckidd]

I unlocked it to see if people could stay on topic an not shop bash.

Since this is a misunderstanding between Mr. Siegel and a User on IA, until either one of them tells me to lock it, ill leave it open.

AS LONG AS NO DRAMA ENSUES

[Tracy]

This may be true, but im sure there are alot more people who might want to put their two cents into this. If the thread starter didn't request for his thread to be locked, I don't think someone should just lock it because they think the case is closed.He is a mod. :) Case was closed according to some. Case was not closed according to others. Now it's open. Say your piece :cheers:

[UpSideDownDesi]

thank you for unlocking it. Please keep it unlocked until i ask to lock.

Mr. Siegel still hasn't answered many of my questions.

I will stand behind that the tuner is lying/making up some things to cover himself (Sorry Scott i didn't want to go this harsh, but i have no respect for lairs.) I already have proved 1 of his statements wrong and sooner or later prove others wrong.

Everyone is welcomed to go read the PM between me and Scott Siegel. I will be more than happy to answer any questions.

*There is no Bashing on the Shop they have handled this how a professionals and a business should....they cleared lot of things that were unclear before. :goodjob:

You can also follow here..... http://wrxatlanta.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17498&page=10

[Tracy]

The thing that should be the most clear is that if you have a problem, you handle it through the proper outlets before you speak in haste and ESPECIALLY before you cancel CC payments.

This is not to say that Scott was wrong in his work and diagnosis of your car. I have full faith in Scott's work or else we would have never thought of partnering with him. I will say again, I don't know the situation but for the fact that you called his cell phone and not the shop number with your concerns and then you called the CC company (my biggest issue). I just found out about the PM's in this thread. The rest of what happened is all new to me.

[siegelracing]

I'm not sure what you "proved me wrong on..." and I don't appreciate being called a liar. You knew full well that there were problems with the car, you knew what the afr's were the whole time, nothing was kept/hidden/lied about.

USDD and all - as this was 3 months and a bunch of cars ago, I don't remember every detail. Looking through the PM's shows that we spoke of a known boost control issue. You have been told all along that there were issues with the car that required changing EM to get right. The previous owner didn't want to spend the money because he was just selling it. The first time you and I met, you didn't want to put the money in because you were planning on selling it. Every time you have asked someone who knows the car you have gotten the same answer, and refused to listen to it.

There is a REASON that the car is so rich, and there is/was not an efficient way to diagnose it with the UTEC installed.

I'd have been happy to continue working on it with you, but as I have said all along, nothing was owed to you, so it can't have been free...

I thought we were in agreement that it wasn't worth continuing to put time and money into the UTEC.

It really comes down to this:

You have a problem car. We worked on your problems. You paid for the work that was done. Then you decided that you should either get more work for free, or get your money back. Neither is an option.

I'm not sure what your plan for all this is. You haven't contacted me in 3 months, then you decide to do it publicly. You state in a public forum that you have a lousy tune. You ask "the world in general" what it will cost to fix an unknown problem...

Tuning is not magic. The only thing that is remotely "magical" is the experiences a tuner has that give him an idea where to go to fix a problem, and when to stop trying to tune out a mechanical issue. Once there are no problems the rest is just calibration - tweaking the input to get the right output. The map that you came in with had more fuel in it than the map you left with.

When we started dynoing we noticed that it was incredibly rich, we took a TON of fuel out of it. Then the "magic of experience" kicked in and said, there's a problem - it won't lean out with reasonable values in the map.

You had repeatedly stated a desire to limit your spending on the car. In an effort to save you money, we ended the tuning with a less than perfect result AND THE STATEMENT THAT YOU WOULD BE CHANGING EM AND DOING MORE TUNING.

I have spent an excessive amount of time dealing with this situation. You got work done. You paid for the work done. More work takes more money. The work done was not "bad." The car was rich, then died. It required tuning (making the opensource map) to diagnose and fix the mechanical. The mechanical work was done and further tuning commenced. We were still rich and continued taking fuel out until my experiences said, "there is a problem."

You knew full well that there was a problem with it being rich AND AGREED TO CHANGE EM. Then you asked for money back or more work for free...

I have spent enough time on this. I do my absolute best to give 100% customer satisfaction. Most people know that I go WAY above and beyond, often being excessively generous with my time, and giving advice that saves my customers money (often reducing what I make). The time that I have spent on this has taken time from other customers and my family. I would like this to be my last post on this.

Siegel

[Tracy]

And now we have a CC dispute to deal with :)

[JITB]

ohsnap!

[Alan®]

damn this sucks. I have heard nothing but good things about batlground and the people they partner up with from Derf who has not one but two cars worked on by them the first being a very extensive build up and the last one just minor stuff. I really hope that this situation is resolved peacefully so that in the end the Rex runs the way it should and that the relationship between Batlground and it's customers can prosper. Good luck to both sides

[siegelracing]

Batlground has done nothing wrong here... (I don't believe I've done anything wrong either, but they certainly haven't)

Siegel

[EmminoDaGreat]

/\/\ you might wanna change ur sig chief.

[siegelracing]

/\/\ you might wanna change ur sig chief.

Gotcha ;) I had just figured it out... :doh:

[Alan®]

you mean avatar.

[EmminoDaGreat]

No i meen sig jackass, he does not work for batlground anymore.

[AnthonyF]

Mr. Siegal, i sent you a PM. lemme know if u can help me out. looking forward to your professionalism.

[Alan®]

No i meen sig jackass, he does not work for batlground anymore.
no need for name calling :cry: lol now it all makes sense.Lol. My bad.

[EmminoDaGreat]

appology accepted hahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[Vteckidd]

i just downloaded the Bourne Ultimatum, Superbad and the entire season 2 of HEROES in 1080P

And im posting from my couch suckas

[iloveboost]

i just downloaded the Bourne Ultimatum, Superbad and the entire season 2 of HEROES in 1080P

And im posting from my couch suckas
Umm... LSU is about to put a whoopin on Ohio State. Movies can wait.

[Vteckidd]

2 teams i could care less about :)

[Alan®]

yup lol and mike you are a lucky bastard what kind of setup are you running?

[Maniac1]

yup lol and mike you are a lucky bastard what kind of setup are you running?Send him a pm if you wanna know, why thread jack?

[Alan®]

thread was already jacked

[Vteckidd]

yup lol and mike you are a lucky bastard what kind of setup are you running?
2.2 ghz Dual Core
500 Gig HD
2 Gig of ram

Standard HP tower with media options nothing too fancy. I have my PC hooked up to my Samsung 46in LCd TV thats on the wall.

I have a logitech wireless keyboard and mouse.

Phillips 5.1 Surround sound.

I can post, dl, and play PS3, watch movies and TV all from the couch LOL

I hope to convince tracy to let me route the calls at the shop to my cell phone an i can work from home HEHE.

I should take pics an post them

[Vteckidd]

Correction Heroes isnt in 1080P , but the movies are.

Im Downloading Saw IV and 310 to Yuma now.

I got I AM LEGEND if anyone wants it

[Alan®]

so basically you just have the computer hooked into the tv through the monitor hook up that most of the new tv's have? Good **** man

[Alan®]

hell yea send it to me man where do you get all this stuff do you have it in 720 though?

[Vteckidd]

yeah my tower is hooked up to my TV with a standard monitor plug.

My PC doesnt have HDMI, the only thing i need to upgrade on it is the video card, which i dont really play games on it, and the movies qulaity is good enough for me now.

Ill upgrade it eventually so i can run HDMI to the TV instead of VGA

My PS3 is hooked up HDMI though

[EmminoDaGreat]

ps3 + HDMI = SUCCESS

[AznTraitor]

Correction Heroes isnt in 1080P , but the movies are.

Im Downloading Saw IV and 310 to Yuma now.

I got I AM LEGEND if anyone wants it



I'll take anything you can get me! I'm out here in Arkansas for another month and need something to watch!!

[ueyedgr8tness]

I am sry but i got to ask a ? am i hearing that he cancel cc payment to u guy's?

[VegetaRules]

I am sry but i got to ask a ? am i hearing that he cancel cc payment to u guy's?

You couldn't tell by Tracy's constant mentioning of it. lol She's repeated that fact about 6 times. lol She's definately is pissed about it & rightfully so.....Vegeta

[ueyedgr8tness]

You couldn't tell by Tracy's constant mentioning of it. lol She's repeated that fact about 6 times. lol She's definately is pissed about it & rightfully so.....Vegeta

I mean desi is kewl and all i no him.But no matter what happen if a shop spent there time working and tunning a car for him.They need to get $ and i don't agree with that shi* at all that is very disturbing to me and it makes me look at ppl alot different when they do some shi* like that.

[MIKE.P]

scott works at topspeed so why would tracy be pissed about it?? or am i missing something??

[TIGERJC]

scott works at topspeed so why would tracy be pissed about it?? or am i missing something??
scott worked at batlground when this happened and Now the suby CC company is disputing the charge for him. More than likely tracy is getting a headache, B/c I know she is trying to prove to them that Batlground should not lose the money.

[UpSideDownDesi]

I'm not sure what you "proved me wrong on..." and I don't appreciate being called a liar. You knew full well that there were problems with the car, you knew what the afr's were the whole time, nothing was kept/hidden/lied about.

USDD and all - as this was 3 months and a bunch of cars ago, I don't remember every detail. Looking through the PM's shows that we spoke of a known boost control issue. You have been told all along that there were issues with the car that required changing EM to get right. The previous owner didn't want to spend the money because he was just selling it. The first time you and I met, you didn't want to put the money in because you were planning on selling it. Every time you have asked someone who knows the car you have gotten the same answer, and refused to listen to it.

There is a REASON that the car is so rich, and there is/was not an efficient way to diagnose it with the UTEC installed.

I'd have been happy to continue working on it with you, but as I have said all along, nothing was owed to you, so it can't have been free...

I thought we were in agreement that it wasn't worth continuing to put time and money into the UTEC.

It really comes down to this:

You have a problem car. We worked on your problems. You paid for the work that was done. Then you decided that you should either get more work for free, or get your money back. Neither is an option.

I'm not sure what your plan for all this is. You haven't contacted me in 3 months, then you decide to do it publicly. You state in a public forum that you have a lousy tune. You ask "the world in general" what it will cost to fix an unknown problem...

Tuning is not magic. The only thing that is remotely "magical" is the experiences a tuner has that give him an idea where to go to fix a problem, and when to stop trying to tune out a mechanical issue. Once there are no problems the rest is just calibration - tweaking the input to get the right output. The map that you came in with had more fuel in it than the map you left with.

When we started dynoing we noticed that it was incredibly rich, we took a TON of fuel out of it. Then the "magic of experience" kicked in and said, there's a problem - it won't lean out with reasonable values in the map.

You had repeatedly stated a desire to limit your spending on the car. In an effort to save you money, we ended the tuning with a less than perfect result AND THE STATEMENT THAT YOU WOULD BE CHANGING EM AND DOING MORE TUNING.

I have spent an excessive amount of time dealing with this situation. You got work done. You paid for the work done. More work takes more money. The work done was not "bad." The car was rich, then died. It required tuning (making the opensource map) to diagnose and fix the mechanical. The mechanical work was done and further tuning commenced. We were still rich and continued taking fuel out until my experiences said, "there is a problem."

You knew full well that there was a problem with it being rich AND AGREED TO CHANGE EM. Then you asked for money back or more work for free...

I have spent enough time on this. I do my absolute best to give 100% customer satisfaction. Most people know that I go WAY above and beyond, often being excessively generous with my time, and giving advice that saves my customers money (often reducing what I make). The time that I have spent on this has taken time from other customers and my family. I would like this to be my last post on this.

Siegel
You stated "several electrical/mechanical serious issues" with the car before tune...only able to bring one up...car shutting of issues. And even Will (master tech at SOG at the time) agreed that there was only 1 serious problems with the car that he couldn't fix...which was shutting of issues. I don't appreciate being getting ripped off either and saying i have a problem car. I never said you lied about the AFR reading. You know the statements you made up...not gonna repeat everything over and go in circles....they are stated in my previous reply to you with the question that got ignored.

You said you did opensource tunning...without UTEC tunning why weren't you able to catch the car running rich problem then? Yea tunning is no magic, and you are correct it takes experience for someone to find a problem. If you did find problems.... For the 10th time...... why didn't you tell me that it is keeping you from tunning the car? Then there would have been no point tunning the car...instead you tried over and over...got the same results...no gain and i still ended up paying for all the failed attempts.

I contacted you the next day after the tune and heard "NO" several times. I don't like to hear no over and over. There was no point contacting you after hearing your final answer.

Yes i said i would like a cost effective tweak, but no way $406 cost effective for this.
Most people don't believe me and i understand....who wants to go against a tuner and mess up their future with them? I didn't agree before and i won't agree now or later. You did me wrong and i am standing by it.
I am not the only one who had problem with your tune, and don't know why other didn't come forward?

[UpSideDownDesi]

this is IA for you and how serious people take other's problems. Even mod taking a thread to diff direction.

Nothing has harmed relations between Batlground and me.

[UpSideDownDesi]

none of y'all know what is getting disputed and what isn't or how this is getting taken care off. So i would appreciate no extra comment on this. This a matter that will stay in PM's between me and BG.

[Vteckidd]

are we satisfied that nothing else can come from this thread?

If you want to keep everything between you an BG, are we ready to let this go?

[GAtegs]

I think everything that needs to be/should be said has been said.

[GAtegs]

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 17 (16 members and 1 guests)
GAtegs, TIGERJC, siegelracing, UpSideDownDesi, ftjandra, DC5_BAB3, VegetaRules, mystainsane, xbn83, redGT, KA98S10, afande, itsnotarex, pEd, BrianGT, 02civic_si

[2.3 Evo 8]

Desi, I'm sorry but I don't think you understand tuning.

You can't show up in a car with issues and an engine management system that is holding you back. Sounds like you showed up with a car that had "more issues than you knew", and you expected the tuner to produce miracle hp numbers with said car.

[UpSideDownDesi]

are we satisfied that nothing else can come from this thread?

If you want to keep everything between you an BG, are we ready to let this go?
:goodjob: