Toyota boasts about Hybrid Race win, but was it a complete walkover? (Please rep me)

[EJ25RUN]

For those of you that are in to motorsport (not nascar), might have heard or read about Toyota's outright victory in this year Tokachi 24hour Enduro. The car has been praised for being the first hybrid win in an international motorsport event. It even beat the second place car by 19 laps (wow)! The car is the "Toyota Team Sard Supra HV-R".

http://www.bilnyheter.no/e107_plugins/autogallery/Gallery/Toyota%20Lexus%20Scion/SupraHV-R3.jpg
http://www.sard.co.jp/race_r/r2007/news/20070616_1.jpg

At first when i read about the event, i was pleased and felt that toyota had achieved a great victory platform.....Which it is!

But later on as i did more research down the road i realized that the tokachi race is part of the Super Taikyu championship in japan. Here is the pic that raised my eyebrow!
http://www.supercars.net/carpics/3864/2007_Toyota_SupraHVR2.jpg

Now Super Taikyu uses Fia Group N rules for competition and the fastest class: ST-1 consists of vehicles like this:

BMW Z4
http://www.teampetronas.com/admin/imagelibrary/-415412545.jpg
Porsche 996 GT3
http://www.fmotor.jp/photos/2004/20040321_1.jpg

Now by just comparing the Supra to the Bimmer and Porsche you can see a world of difference.
The main being the power to weight ratio!

The HV-R Supra uses the 480hp SuperGT GT500 winning 3UZ-FE V8 and has 2 electric motors in the front wheels and a 3rd electric motor on the rear axle powering the rears wheels. Yes its AWD! The resulting HP IS 708.9 HP!
Race Engine Technology magazine actually Awarded this set up "2007 Race engine of the year"

So really, this is a 708.9 hp vehicle weighting in at under 2300 lbs racing cars that really are under a GT3 class designation!

Supra HV-R
So POWER/WEIGHT RATIO IS = 3.24<<

The second place finisher: Petronas BMW Z4
Power is had from a 3246 cc i6 with 12.5: 1 CR
396 PS at 8200rpm / Weight is 2750 lbs
with the conversion chart
POWER/WEIGHT RATIO IS = 6.94<<<<<


THAT'S A BIG DIFFERENCE! in reality thats like David losing to Goliath because Goliath had an M16 to go with the muscle!

It took me a good while but im still trying to decode the japanese on the Super Taikyu or Tokachi websites to compare the pole/fastest lap between the cars.

CONFIRMED POLE TIMES -
1. SUPRA HV-R ~ 2'03.262
2. ENDLESS ADVAN Z ~ 2'10.428

Thats 7 hole seconds..... !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To give you some idea!
6 seconds is the amount of time a 2005 f1 car (950 bhp v10) could beat a 2005 cart race car around a circuit!

That was a fair race! :rolleyes:



I spent all morning doing this (please rep me) :goodjob:

[green91]

I can see your POV, but realistically if they allowed the car to race within their guidelines and win, theres no argument.

[EJ25RUN]

I can see your POV, but realistically if they allowed the car to race within their guidelines and win, theres no argument.

First of all....yes they let the car race but whose to say that a large paycheck from toyota didn't help influense that decision. Its a freken carbin fiber unibody with a 700hp mill pushing it. I'm a bit skeptical on this one!

[Thighs]

rules are rules. if the org. who put the event on went by fia rules, its perfectly legal.

[kingkong]

repped!!!

[1SICKLEX]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to EJ25RUN again.

[matthewAPM]

money wins races

[chnco]

Money doesn't necessarily win races, but it is a huge part.

INNOVATION wins races. If it's perfectly legal, why did the other teams NOT do it?

I think you are just looking for excuses.

[EJ25RUN]

read first post for more facts about pole times.

[green91]

So youre proposing that even if a car is completely legal to race by the the guidelines for the race, but wins with a significant time gap, they should be disqualified? be real man

[EJ25RUN]

So youre proposing that even if a car is completely legal to race by the the guidelines for the race, but wins with a significant time gap, they should be disqualified? be real man

how was the car completely legal?

1. its was the only GT class car in the event.
2. 700hp vs. 400hp in z4
3. weights 2300 ibs vs z4 is 2750hp
4. the car is a full carbon on carbin unibody when the z4 uses a production based shell.
5. can lap a race track 7 seconds faster than what is supposed to be a fair competion.
6. the st1 cars are all base production vehicles while the supra was a retired gt500 car which ranks up with fia gt1 cars (if not faster).

not disqualified, i never said that either.....where are your facts from?

and green91, this is a motorsport debate, not a toyota bashing on my part.
its a great achievement on the side of reliabilty and execution but on their part but i feel that they could have entered the car in another event to be more fair.

*response*