******** 2008 Presidential Election *********

[tony]

What do you think? or do you even care? I may do a run down of the major candidates in this thread, havent decided yet.

*edit* Direct Link to information about candidates, more to come

Ron Paul (http://www.importatlanta.com/forums/showpost.php?p=36321960&postcount=6)

Barack Obama (http://www.importatlanta.com/forums/showpost.php?p=36330813&postcount=31)

Mitt Romney (http://www.importatlanta.com/forums/showpost.php?p=36334926&postcount=39)

Joe Biden (http://www.importatlanta.com/forums/showpost.php?p=36347087&postcount=75)

Hillary Clinton (http://www.importatlanta.com/forums/showpost.php?p=36345677&postcount=68)

Dennis Kucinich (http://www.importatlanta.com/forums/showpost.php?p=36345620&postcount=65)

[TIGERJC]

The country is screwed no matter what

[tony]

How so? We're screwed as is, someone would have to be really dumb to make it any worse.

[TIGERJC]

How so? We're screwed as is, someone would have to be really dumb to make it any worse.
Not one candidate really stands out for me. I lean on the democrat side and not one democrat candidate does it for me. SO i really dont know who I will vote for, b.c there is no way in hell I will vote for any republican that plays to the CRAZY RELIGION fan base (they all play to that crap)

[tony]

Ron Paul may appeal to you, he runs under the republican ticket but he is far from what is considered republican of today.. I think he sides more with the libertarian party than anything.

There are a few candidates who are running under one ticket but their actions do not reflect their party. Hillary Clinton is one, she is running as a democrat but believe me if you listen to her talk she is REALLY closer to being a Republican more than democrat.

Its hard to say one candidate will fix all of our problems, especially the ones who have a real chance of winning but what can you do?

[tony]

http://www.ronpaul2008.com/img/congressional-record.jpg

The political positions of Ron Paul, U.S. presidential candidate, have been called conservative, Constitutionalist, and libertarian. Paul's nickname "Dr. No" reflects both his medical degree and his insistence on "never vot[ing] for legislation unless the proposed measure is expressly authorized by the Constitution."Paul adheres to the Austrian school of economics and libertarian criticism of fractional-reserve banking, opposing fiat increases to [non-backed] money in circulation;[8] He has authored six books on monetary subjects, and has pictures of classical liberal economists Friedrich Hayek, Murray Rothbard, and Ludwig von Mises hanging on his office wall.


Nonintervention

Paul calls for a foreign policy of nonintervention.[42] This policy avoids entangling alliances with other nations, in the tradition of Washington, Jefferson, and Madison,[43] in order to avoid being drawn into wars not related to defense. He believes that war must be fought only to protect citizens, it must be declared by the U.S. Congress, and it must be concluded when the victory is complete as planned: "The American public deserves clear goals and a definite exit strategy in Iraq."[44] Paul advocates bringing troops home from U.S. military bases in Korea, Japan, and Europe among others.[45] He denies being an isolationist: he advocates "conducting open trade, travel, communication, and diplomacy with other nations".[46]National Journal rated Paul's foreign policy as 20% conservative in 2006 (28% in 2005).[47]


Secure borders and legal immigration

Paul believes that the government, neglecting a Constitutional responsibility to protect its borders, has concentrated instead on unconstitutionally policing foreign countries.[71] During the Cold War, he supported Reagan's Strategic Defense Initiative,[72] intended to replace the "strategic offense" doctrine of mutual assured destruction with strategic defense.

Paul's immigration positions sometimes differ with libertarian think tanks and the official platform of the U.S. Libertarian Party.[73] He believes illegal immigrants take a toll on welfare and Social Security and would end such benefits, concerned that uncontrolled immigration makes the U.S. a magnet for illegal immigrants, increases welfare payments, and exacerbates the strain on an already highly unbalanced federal budget.[15] Paul's Congressional voting record earned a lifetime grade of B and a recent grade of B+ from Americans for Better Immigration.[74]


Lower taxes and smaller government

Paul believes the size of federal government must be decreased substantially. He supports the abolition of the Internal Revenue Service, most Cabinet departments, and the Federal Reserve.[89] Paul's campaign slogan for 2004 was "The Taxpayers' Best Friend!".[90] He would completely eliminate the income tax by shrinking the size and scope of government to what he considers its Constitutional limits, noting that he has never voted to approve an unbalanced budget; he has observed that even scaling back spending to 2000 levels eliminates the need for the 42% of the budget accounted for by individual income tax receipts.[19] He has asserted that Congress had no power to impose a direct income tax and supports the repeal of the sixteenth amendment.[91] Paul has signed a pledge not to raise taxes or create new taxes, given by Americans for Tax Freedom.[18] Paul has also been an advocate of employee-owned corporations (such as employee stock ownership plans).[92] In 1999, he co-sponsored The Employee Ownership Act of 1999, which would have created a new type of corporation (the employee-owned-and-controlled corporation) that would have been exempt from most federal income taxes.


Freedom of the Internet

In 2006, a "Technology voter guide" by CNET awarded Paul a score of 80%, the highest score out of both houses of Congress. Paul has been criticized for voting against legislation to help catch online child predators, one of the votes used in the CNET guide. In response to critics, Paul said, "I have a personal belief that the responsibility of raising kids, educating kids and training kids is up to the parents and not the state. Once the state gets involved, it becomes too arbitrary." He also believed that the proposed law was unconstitutional.[131]


Right to keep and bear arms

The only 2008 presidential candidate to earn Gun Owners of America's A+ rating, Paul has authored and sponsored pro-Second Amendment legislation in Congress. He has also fought for the right of pilots to be armed.

[TIGERJC]

I keep hearing good things about this Ron Paul guy, but I really dont want to see another republican in the office. Mainly b/c I see them staying on the right side when it comes to anything once they are in office. Nothing scares me more if another republican gets in the office and sides with the Christians' Nut jobs to keep them happy.

[TIGERJC]

I oppose getting rid of the income tax, b/c I rather see my country reduce spending and use the surplus to pay down the country's debit. I am ok with reducing the income tax, if the government would do a better job at manging the money the federal gets

[tony]

As far as the abolishment of the income tax goes, let me give a brief explanation of the Fair Tax which is the big proposal to do away with the Income Tax and the IRS:



There will no longer be a federal income tax, which simply means you will no longer have all those taxes taken out of your paycheck. Instead the "FairTax" would create a national 23% sales tax meaning that we would pay .23 on every dollar spent. BUT...you would get a prebate of your taxes spent on ALL items of necessities. All valid Social Security cardholders who are U.S. residents receive a monthly prebate equivalent to the FairTax paid on essential goods and services, also known as the poverty level expenditures. The prebate is paid in advance, in equal installments each month. The size of the prebate is determined by the Department of Health & Human Services’ poverty level guideline multiplied by the tax rate. This is a well-accepted, long-used poverty-level calculation that includes food, clothing, shelter, transportation, medical care, etc.

The FairTax:
Enables workers to keep their entire paycheck
Enables retirees to keep their entire pension
Reimburses the tax on purchases of basic necessities
Allows American products to compete fairly
Brings transparency and accountability to tax policy
Ensures Social Security and Medicare funding
Closes all loopholes and brings fairness to taxation
Abolishes the IRS

[TIGERJC]

Yea I know, and I am totally against the Fair Tax.

[tony]

What if I told you theoretically we have a greater chance of knocking down the debt we have through the fair tax?

[TIGERJC]

What if I told you theoretically we have a greater chance of knocking down the debt we have through the fair tax?
O i know, b/c there would no limit and thats what I am worried about.

[Ruststang]

vote hillary if you would like to pay for everyone eles kids and healthcare! she is the one who could make it worse, the plans she wants to instate can't be undone after she is out of office in 2012.

[SL65AMG]

I keep hearing good things about this Ron Paul guy, but I really dont want to see another republican in the office. Mainly b/c I see them staying on the right side when it comes to anything once they are in office. Nothing scares me more if another republican gets in the office and sides with the Christians' Nut jobs to keep them happy.


ron paul FTW


I oppose getting rid of the income tax, b/c I rather see my country reduce spending and use the surplus to pay down the country's debit. I am ok with reducing the income tax, if the government would do a better job at manging the money the federal gets


the government doesnt do a good job of anything.... you havent realized that yet?


Yea I know, and I am totally against the Fair Tax.


you are against the fair tax? have you researched the fair tax? apparently not if you are "totally against it"

[Whiteboy™]

Ron Paul FTW

[bigdare23]

I'm not really feeling just throwing out the IRS. I believe some changes should be made, but just totally doing away with would do more harm then good at first. If you're going to something major such as that, it should be a gradual process.

[xlilvi3tx]

the countrys fu*ked... thanks to bush's dumbass... hopefully one of them can fix bush's mess

[TIGERJC]

the government doesnt do a good job of anything.... you havent realized that yet? Agree and disagree. Its my opinion that the country could use less gov't in some sectors, but also the gov't is need in others

you are against the fair tax? have you researched the fair tax? apparently not if you are "totally against it" I understand it and thats why I don't believe it would work in this country. Since it is so great please explain and I would gladly debate it with you.

I love how nobody is allowed to have their own opinion these days

[tony]

I'm not really feeling just throwing out the IRS. I believe some changes should be made, but just totally doing away with would do more harm then good at first. If you're going to something major such as that, it should be a gradual process.

I'm just curious what the IRS does that is so great?

[SL65AMG]

I understand it and thats why I don't believe it would work in this country. Since it is so great please explain and I would gladly debate it with you.

I love how nobody is allowed to have their own opinion these days


i never said you werent allowed to have your own opinion.

It provides a flat tax rate of 23% which applies to EVERYONE since it is applies to the purchase of NEW goods. it doesnt apply to used goods. you take home your entire paycheck which allows you to save money. It gets rid of the governments personal leech, the IRS. You would, in actuality, end up spending the same amount of money, or close to it, with obvious exceptions. (some people spending way more or way less.)

when people have more money they spend more money, and since consumer spending is what drives the economy, it will greatly help the economy to flourish.


yes you can have your own opinions. why wouldnt it work????


things that dont work are:

National healthcare(socialized medicine)
FEMA
the Government

[Ruststang]

the countrys fu*ked... thanks to bush's dumbass... hopefully one of them can fix bush's mess

Care to explain how the current condition of this country is souly Bush's fault?

[xlilvi3tx]

Care to explain how the current condition of this country is souly Bush's fault?

imo bush is the one that wanted to go to war and to me, that war is just straight pointless... im pretty sure we're not getting anything out of it and he's just sending a hell load of people over there.. taxes arent going to what they are suppose to and its mostly fundin the war...correct if im wrong or anything but thats what i think. but what do i know? lol :thinking: politics isnt my thing, all i know is since bush came into office a bunch of sh!t been happenin to the country.. it probably just because the gas prices that pisses me off lol :D

[SL65AMG]

imo bush is the one that wanted to go to war and to me, that war is just straight pointless... im pretty sure we're not getting anything out of it and he's just sending a hell load of people over there.. taxes arent going to what they are suppose to and its mostly fundin the war...correct if im wrong or anything but thats what i think. but what do i know? lol :thinking: politics isnt my thing, all i know is since bush came into office a bunch of sh!t been happenin to the country.. it probably just because the gas prices that pisses me off lol :D


congress is allowed to bring the troops home after 90 days or something like that. they didnt.

the people of this country who hate bush so much can vote him out of office. they didnt.


bush ****ed up a lot, but not EVERYTHING is his fault. some things he has no control over....

[xlilvi3tx]

bush ****ed up a lot, but not EVERYTHING is his fault. some things he has no control over....

well thats something i can agree with...

[BiH1320]

I dont know why people even choose Bush's dumbass for president anyways. Bill Clinton FTW. Are the gas prices ever gonna go down? Atleast do a dollar something? Bush screw everything up. He didnt help this country not 1 bit.

[tony]

Bush doesn't control gas prices, OPEC does.

[BABY J]

http://www.ronpaul2008.com/img/congressional-record.jpg

The political positions of Ron Paul, U.S. presidential candidate, have been called conservative, Constitutionalist, and libertarian. Paul's nickname "Dr. No" reflects both his medical degree and his insistence on "never vot[ing] for legislation unless the proposed measure is expressly authorized by the Constitution."Paul adheres to the Austrian school of economics and libertarian criticism of fractional-reserve banking, opposing fiat increases to [non-backed] money in circulation;[8] He has authored six books on monetary subjects, and has pictures of classical liberal economists Friedrich Hayek, Murray Rothbard, and Ludwig von Mises hanging on his office wall.


Nonintervention

Paul calls for a foreign policy of nonintervention.[42] This policy avoids entangling alliances with other nations, in the tradition of Washington, Jefferson, and Madison,[43] in order to avoid being drawn into wars not related to defense. He believes that war must be fought only to protect citizens, it must be declared by the U.S. Congress, and it must be concluded when the victory is complete as planned: "The American public deserves clear goals and a definite exit strategy in Iraq."[44] Paul advocates bringing troops home from U.S. military bases in Korea, Japan, and Europe among others.[45] He denies being an isolationist: he advocates "conducting open trade, travel, communication, and diplomacy with other nations".[46]National Journal rated Paul's foreign policy as 20% conservative in 2006 (28% in 2005).[47]


Secure borders and legal immigration

Paul believes that the government, neglecting a Constitutional responsibility to protect its borders, has concentrated instead on unconstitutionally policing foreign countries.[71] During the Cold War, he supported Reagan's Strategic Defense Initiative,[72] intended to replace the "strategic offense" doctrine of mutual assured destruction with strategic defense.

Paul's immigration positions sometimes differ with libertarian think tanks and the official platform of the U.S. Libertarian Party.[73] He believes illegal immigrants take a toll on welfare and Social Security and would end such benefits, concerned that uncontrolled immigration makes the U.S. a magnet for illegal immigrants, increases welfare payments, and exacerbates the strain on an already highly unbalanced federal budget.[15] Paul's Congressional voting record earned a lifetime grade of B and a recent grade of B+ from Americans for Better Immigration.[74]


Lower taxes and smaller government

Paul believes the size of federal government must be decreased substantially. He supports the abolition of the Internal Revenue Service, most Cabinet departments, and the Federal Reserve.[89] Paul's campaign slogan for 2004 was "The Taxpayers' Best Friend!".[90] He would completely eliminate the income tax by shrinking the size and scope of government to what he considers its Constitutional limits, noting that he has never voted to approve an unbalanced budget; he has observed that even scaling back spending to 2000 levels eliminates the need for the 42% of the budget accounted for by individual income tax receipts.[19] He has asserted that Congress had no power to impose a direct income tax and supports the repeal of the sixteenth amendment.[91] Paul has signed a pledge not to raise taxes or create new taxes, given by Americans for Tax Freedom.[18] Paul has also been an advocate of employee-owned corporations (such as employee stock ownership plans).[92] In 1999, he co-sponsored The Employee Ownership Act of 1999, which would have created a new type of corporation (the employee-owned-and-controlled corporation) that would have been exempt from most federal income taxes.


Freedom of the Internet

In 2006, a "Technology voter guide" by CNET awarded Paul a score of 80%, the highest score out of both houses of Congress. Paul has been criticized for voting against legislation to help catch online child predators, one of the votes used in the CNET guide. In response to critics, Paul said, "I have a personal belief that the responsibility of raising kids, educating kids and training kids is up to the parents and not the state. Once the state gets involved, it becomes too arbitrary." He also believed that the proposed law was unconstitutional.[131]


Right to keep and bear arms

The only 2008 presidential candidate to earn Gun Owners of America's A+ rating, Paul has authored and sponsored pro-Second Amendment legislation in Congress. He has also fought for the right of pilots to be armed.

where did u get this Tony? Also do a rundown of Obama

[03mx5]

Clinton FTW!! Her husband did a good job in leading this country in economic growth as will she.

[Killer]

huckabee ftw.... only because of the video add he made with chuck norris....


first of all, i'm sure if you don't vote huckabee at this point... chuck norris will potato sack you to death....

[tony]

I'll get to Obama when I get home.. most of the info is a culmination of stuff from Wikipedia and the candidates websites.

[tony]

http://www.vibe.com/blog/humanitycritic/barack_obama-779027.jpg


Senator Barack Obama

Barack Obama is the junior United States Senator from Illinois and a candidate for the Democratic nomination in the 2008 presidential election. He is the fifth African American Senator in U.S. history, and the only African American currently serving in the U.S. Senate.[2]

Born to a white American mother and a black Kenyan father, Obama grew up in culturally diverse surroundings. He lived for most of his childhood in the majority-minority U.S. state of Hawaii and spent four of his pre-teen years in the multi-ethnic Indonesian capital city of Jakarta. A graduate of Columbia University and Harvard Law School, Obama worked as a community organizer, university lecturer, and civil rights lawyer before running for public office. He served in the Illinois Senate from 1997 to 2004, launching his campaign for U.S. Senate in 2003.


Energy policy

Obama and other Senators introduced the BioFuels Security Act in 2007. "It's time for Congress to realize what farmers in America's heartland have known all along - that we have the capacity and ingenuity to decrease our dependence on foreign oil by growing our own fuel," Obama said.[8] In a May 2006 letter to President Bush, he joined four other midwest farming state Senators in calling for the preservation of a $0.54-per-gallon tariff on imported ethanol.[9]

Regarding the domestic use of nuclear energy, Obama has expressed support: "...it is reasonable – and realistic – for nuclear power to remain on the table for consideration."[10]


Health care

On January 24, 2007 Obama spoke about his position on health care at Families USA, a health care advocacy group. Obama said, "The time has come for universal health care in America [...] I am absolutely determined that by the end of the first term of the next president, we should have universal health care in this country." Obama went on to say that he believed that it was wrong that forty-seven million Americans are uninsured, noting that taxpayers already pay over $15 billion annually to care for the uninsured.[11]


Taxation

Obama spoke out in June 2006 against making recent, temporary estate tax cuts permanent, calling the cuts a "Paris Hilton" tax break for "billionaire heirs and heiresses."[13] Speaking in November 2006 to members of Wake Up Wal-Mart, a union-backed campaign group, Obama said: "You gotta pay your workers enough that they can actually not only shop at Wal-Mart, but ultimately send their kids to college and save for retirement."[14]


Immigration

Obama supports a guest worker program.[29] Obama has said that he "will not support any bill that does not provide [an] earned path to citizenship for the undocumented population."

Obama doesn't believe that twelve million illegal immigrants can be sent back. He said "It's not going to happen. We're not going to go round them up ... We should give them a pathway to citizenship."[30]

In September 2006, Obama voted for the Secure Fence Act, authorizing the construction of 700 miles of fencing along the United States–Mexico border.[31]


Iraq

Senator Obama was an early opponent of Bush administration policies on Iraq, when other Democratic leaders supported the legislation that led to the war. Obama was not in the United States Senate, and was therefore unable to vote during the Iraq Resolution of 11 October 2002, authorizing the use of force against Iraq. During a fall 2002 anti-war rally at Chicago's Federal Plaza, while still an Illinois State Senator, and in a speech alongside Jesse Jackson, Obama stated: "I am not opposed to all wars. I'm opposed to dumb wars. [...] You want a fight, President Bush? Let's finish the fight with Bin Laden and al-Qaeda, through effective, coordinated intelligence, and a shutting down of the financial networks that support terrorism, and a homeland security program that involves more than color-coded warnings."[38] He also speculated about the sectarian violence in Iraq after the fall of Saddam, and talked about the need for a strategy to stabilize Iraq and hand over power to the Iraqis in an interview in 2002.[citation needed] Speaking before the Chicago Council on Global Affairs in November 2006, he said: "The days of using the war on terror as a political football are over. [...] It is time to give Iraqis their country back, and it is time to refocus America's efforts on the wider struggle yet to be won." In his speech Obama also called for a phased withdrawal of American troops starting in 2007, and an opening of diplomatic dialog with Iraq's neighbors, Syria and Iran.[39]

During a July 2004 interview on Meet the Press when asked how he would have voted on the Iraq resolution in 2003, Obama answered "What would I have done? I don't know...There's not much of a difference between my position on Iraq and George Bush's position at this stage." Obama defended his words on a later edition of Meet the Press saying that he made the statement because it was during the middle of an election in which his party's presidential nominees had both voted to authorize the war and noting that he was openly opposed to the war as early as 2002.[40]

On January 30, 2007, Obama introduced the Iraq War De-Escalation Act of 2007 into Congress. Among other things, the Act calls for capping the level of troops in Iraq at January 2007 levels, and for commencing a phased redeployment of US forces from Iraq "with the goal of removing all combat brigades from Iraq by March 31, 2008, a date that is consistent with the expectation of the bipartisan Iraq Study Group.[41][42] Announcing the act on the Senate floor, Obama stated that "no amount of American soldiers can solve the political differences at the heart of somebody else's civil war."[43]

Obama has not, however, consistently supported cutting funding to the war as a way to end U.S. involvement in the conflict.[44]


Abortion and contraception

In his write-in response to a 1998 survey, Obama stated his abortion position as: "Abortions should be legally available in accordance with Roe v. Wade."[45]

While serving in the Illinois Senate, Obama had a 100 percent rating from the Illinois Planned Parenthood Council[46] due to his consistent voting in favor of abortion rights, family planning services, and having female contraceptives covered by health insurance.[47] Since his election to the United States Senate Obama has maintained a 100 percent rating from Planned Parenthood (as of 2007) and NARAL (as of 2005).[48] While serving in the Illinois State Senate, Obama opposed legislation that required "medical care for aborted fetuses" because the legislation's wording defined the fetus as a child -- a measure he said would "essentially bar abortions."[49]


Gun control

As a state legislator in Illinois, Obama supported banning the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic firearms, increasing state restrictions on the purchase and possession of firearms and requiring manufacturers to provide child-safety locks with firearms.[59] He sponsored a bill in 2000 limiting handgun purchases to one per month. He also voted against a 2004 measure allowing a self-defense exception for people charged with violating local weapons bans by using a gun in their home.[60]

Obama was also a board member[61] of the Joyce Foundation which funds and maintains several gun control organizations in the United States.

He supported several gun control measures, including restricting the purchase of firearms at gun shows and the reauthorization of the Federal Assault Weapons Ban.[62]

While in the US Senate, Obama has voted against legislation protecting firearm manufacturers from liability.[63]

[On_Her_Face]

Clinton FTW!! Her husband did a good job in leading this country in economic growth as will she.

are you kidding, Clinton is the anti-christ. as soon as she decides that she won't be leaving office (which is december 21, 2012) the world is going to ****ing end. even the mayans predicted this to happen so many years ago.

[BABY J]

Tony you're the man --- I wanna see Romney next - keep the ideas coming people.

[XanRules]

Biden FTMFW

[BB6dohcvtec]

congress is allowed to bring the troops home after 90 days or something like that. they didnt.

the people of this country who hate bush so much can vote him out of office. they didnt.


bush ****ed up a lot, but not EVERYTHING is his fault. some things he has no control over....

congress was controlled by republicans at the time.

some thought he would do better to avoid being labeled a lame duck, but he really didn't care so that is his label and will be his legacy.

more than 75% are his fault and the others he has no control over is still his fault because they came about by the decisions he made.

[SL65AMG]

http://www.vibe.com/blog/humanitycritic/barack_obama-779027.jpg


Senator Barack Obama



Gun control

As a state legislator in Illinois, Obama supported banning the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic firearms, increasing state restrictions on the purchase and possession of firearms and requiring manufacturers to provide child-safety locks with firearms.[59] He sponsored a bill in 2000 limiting handgun purchases to one per month. He also voted against a 2004 measure allowing a self-defense exception for people charged with violating local weapons bans by using a gun in their home.[60]

Obama was also a board member[61] of the Joyce Foundation which funds and maintains several gun control organizations in the United States.

He supported several gun control measures, including restricting the purchase of firearms at gun shows and the reauthorization of the Federal Assault Weapons Ban.[62]

While in the US Senate, Obama has voted against legislation protecting firearm manufacturers from liability.[63]

that issue ALONE loses his vote from me, not to mention all the other things i dont agree with....


these stupid asses and their socialized medicine

[tony]

I knew someone would point out his position on gun control, I dont agree with it much myself

[BABY J]

TONY - what's up w/ the Romney info??


and LOL@ people who think that guns is one of the top REAL issues facing our nation.

[tony]

http://www.mymanmitt.com/mitt-romney/uploaded_images/mitt_romney-797685.jpg


Governor Mitt Romney

Willard Mitt Romney (born March 12, 1947) is an American, businessman, and politician from the state of Michigan and later Massachusetts. Formerly the 70th Governor of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts Romney is currently seeking the Republican nomination in the 2008 United States presidential election.[1]

Romney is a former CEO of Bain & Company, a management consulting firm, and the co-founder of Bain Capital, a private equity investment firm. After a life in business and as the CEO of the 2002 Winter Olympics, Romney was elected as Massachusetts Governor in 2002. Romney served one term and did not seek re-election in 2006; his term expired January 4, 2007.


Abortion

Romney's current stance, as described on his campaign Web site, effectively calls for a repeal of Roe v. Wade, saying that "the states, through the democratic process, should determine their own abortion laws and not have them dictated by judicial mandate."[16] Romney reasserted this stance at the second Republican Presidential debate in South Carolina, stating that "Roe v. Wade has gone to such an extent that we've cheapened the value of human life." He followed by saying "the people should make [the abortion] decision, not the court."[17] ABC News reported that Romney supports the pro-life plank of the GOP platform, which means he would support establishing legal personhood for all unborn children in all 50 states.[18]


Energy

Romney wants to become independent of foreign sources of oil, and that the way to do that is a combination of developing alternative sources of energy such as biodiesel, ethanol, nuclear, and coal gasification, and finding more domestic sources of oil such as in Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR) and the Outer Continental Shelf.[31]

"We're using too much oil," Romney said. "We have an answer. We can use alternative sources of energy -- biodiesel, ethanol, nuclear power -- and we can drill for more oil here. We can be more energy independent and we can be far more efficient in the use of that energy."[32]


Gun Control

Romney has said "I support the right of individuals to keep and bear arms as guaranteed under the U.S. Constitution",[53] though in past campaigns he has described himself as a proponent of moderate gun control, supporting a ban on semi-automatic firearms, which he still supports.[54] However, it is further reported that "Romney had taken steps to support gun rights as governor, including his signing of an NRA-backed bill last year[...]."[55][54]

For Romney's 1994 US Senate campaign, he supported the Brady Bill, which imposed a five-day waiting period on gun sales, and a ban on particular semi-automatic rifles.[54] In a 2002 debate during Romney's campaign for governor of Massachusetts, Romney said: "We do have tough gun laws in Massachusetts; I support them. I won't chip away at them; I believe they protect us and provide for our safety."[56] As governor, Romney signed a 2004 measure instituting a permanent Massachusetts ban on semi-automatics, to take the place of a Federal ban, which was then about to expire. The bill made Massachusetts the first state to enact its own such ban on semi-automatics, and Romney supported the law with the comment: "These guns are not made for recreation or self-defense. They are instruments of destruction with the sole purpose of hunting down and killing people."[57] As Governor Romney extended the term of firearm licenses from four to six years, reinstated a 90-day grace period for citizens renewing their gun licenses, and signed a law providing free replacement licenses.


Health care

As Governor of Massachusetts, Romney signed legislation that required that nearly all Massachusetts residents obtain health insurance coverage by establishing means-tested state subsidies for people without adequate employer insurance, by directing funds designated to compensate for the health costs of the uninsured, and also specified penalties for those who fail to obtain coverage.[61][62][63] Legislation, effective on July 1, 2007, requires health insurance for all state residents, provided a plan is available to the individual that is deemed affordable according to state standards. Employers with eleven or more employees are mandated to offer approved insurance plans for employees.
Romney had vetoed eight sections of the health care legislation, including a $295 per person fee on businesses with 11 employees or more that do not provide health insurance.[64][65] Romney also vetoed provisions providing dental and eyeglass benefits to low income residents on the Medicaid program, and providing health coverage to senior and disabled legal immigrants not eligible for federal Medicaid.[66][67] However, the state legislature overrode all of the vetoes.[68]


Stem cell research

Romney has said that research using human embryos created during fertility treatments is ethical but opposes using federal funds to support it.[69] He opposes research using cloned embryos created by implanting human DNA into donated eggs.[69] When he ran for governor in 2002, Romney strongly advocated stem-cell research in general terms, and he promised to lobby George W. Bush to embrace such research. [69] During his presidential campaign, however, Romney renounced his 2002 position and said that he now agrees with Bush's decision to ban federal funding for research on excess embryos. [69]


Taxation

Romney has signed the anti-tax pledge put forth by Americans for Tax Reform, pledging no new taxes or increases of existing taxes; in 2002, Romney refused to sign an anti-tax pledge because he considered them "government by gimmickry."[76]

In Romney's 2007 Iowans for Taxpayer Relief and Iowa Republican Straw Poll speeches, he advocated eliminating the capital gains tax.[84][85] Romney has since stated that he favors eliminating any taxes related to capital gains or other investments on all individuals or families who make less than $200,000 per year.


Immigration

Romney favors increased immigration to the United States and opposes illegal immigration, saying "I want to see more immigration in our country, but more legal immigration and less illegal immigration."[91] In a speech to the Republican National Hispanic Assembly, Romney said "I want to make sure we continue an open door in immigration."[92]

Romney is against amnesty for illegal aliens, but also said, "I don't believe in rounding up 11 million people and forcing them at gunpoint from our country." He would like to see illegal immigrants register with the government, pay taxes, and apply for citizenship,[93] but that they should not be given any priority or special treatment over immigrants who have applied for citizenship legally.


Iraq War

In his speech announcing that he would run for president, Romney said, "so long as there is a reasonable prospect of success, our wisest course is to seek stability in Iraq, with additional troops endeavoring to secure the civilian population."[105] He argued that instability in Iraq could lead to civil war and that "Iraq's Sunni region could become a base for al-Qaeda; that its Shia region could be seized by Iran; that Kurd tension could destabilize Turkey; and even that the broader Middle East could be drawn into conflict." [105] He says that this "could mean a future with far more military involvement and far more loss of American life."[105] Romney said that he was willing to break with the Bush administration's policy on Iraq as other Republicans have now done, presumably if the troop surge did not prove successful, though he said it is still too early to gauge its success.

[BB6dohcvtec]

next one needs to be john edwards and then mike huckabee

[BABY J]

NIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIICE

[SL65AMG]

ron paul has the best ideas and plan so far. AND he is always saying the same thing....he doesnt change his position on a particular topic or change how he answers the questions.


hes the best candidate period. he does well for both sides democrat, and republican as well as the libertarian party.

the problem is the people who don't have a damn clue that go to the polls and pick a candidate based solely on whether they are a democrat or republican.

[ZeDFuNk]

If Ron Paul Doesn't win this election, America is ****ed. and i will not be living here any longer. dead serious. people need to wake the **** up and realize what's going on. Ron Paul is America's last hope at redemption.

[ZeDFuNk]

I keep hearing good things about this Ron Paul guy, but I really dont want to see another republican in the office. Mainly b/c I see them staying on the right side when it comes to anything once they are in office. Nothing scares me more if another republican gets in the office and sides with the Christians' Nut jobs to keep them happy.

I hear you on this one.. look at ****ing bush. But here's the thing about ron paul.. he's had the same views since he's been in congress.. 20 years almost, he strictly supports our constitutional rights. He's also not some right wing minister that's going to side with those nuts christian fanatics. The only thing wrong with Ron Paul is.. well.. nothing. He supports everything this country is based off of, when it wasn't a ****hole. Honestly if he's not elected, i will not live in this country anymore.

[BABY J]

Then pack ur sh*t - he will not be elected. Sorry.

[BB6dohcvtec]

I hear you on this one.. look at ****ing bush. But here's the thing about ron paul.. he's had the same views since he's been in congress.. 20 years almost, he strictly supports our constitutional rights. He's also not some right wing minister that's going to side with those nuts christian fanatics. The only thing wrong with Ron Paul is.. well.. nothing. He supports everything this country is based off of, when it wasn't a ****hole. Honestly if he's not elected, i will not live in this country anymore.

I like ron paul as much as the next person, but thinking realistically he will not get the party election. oh well man you might want to go ahead and get packing.

[tony]

I'll try to get to Hillary and Mike Huckabee tonight

[SL65AMG]

I like ron paul as much as the next person, but thinking realistically he will not get the party election. oh well man you might want to go ahead and get packing.

why not? we vote on the primaries just as we vote on the final election. if enough people like him, he will win..... thats how its supposed to work at least....

[dickdragon]

:rly:
:cussing:...

[BB6dohcvtec]

why not? we vote on the primaries just as we vote on the final election. if enough people like him, he will win..... thats how its supposed to work at least....

thats whats i'm saying he has enough people that thinks he is a good candidate but not enough people to actually vote for him. i think most american like being lied too. i guess its now apart of american culture, but paul as the underground vote for sure. But in the states where it really matters ( still don't see why) like Iowa and New Hampshire he won't get the votes.

[BABY J]

up

[GangstaCoupe]

I see a lot of ignorance in this thread. If you look back to when Clinton was in office you can clearly see how he started to over run the economy. Hell look at the unemployment rates they were well below the equilibrium. Then Bush gets into office things start to start to go bust, he throws the economy back into high gear with the housing market, interest only loans ect. Well with the boom comes the bust, all economies are cyclical. If people would stop trying to live BEYOND their means....

[gtikid]

Ron Paul FTW....

Even just hearing him talk should make you feel a lot more confident in him. Compare his speeches and his responses to ANYTHING Bush has said/spoken and you WILL notice the intellectual difference IMMEDIATELY....

[BB6dohcvtec]

Ron Paul FTW....

Even just hearing him talk should make you feel a lot more confident in him. Compare his speeches and his responses to ANYTHING Bush has said/spoken and you WILL notice the intellectual difference IMMEDIATELY....

hell my 8 yr old nephew can give a more intellectual speech than Bush :lmfao:

[Danny]

TONY - what's up w/ the Romney info??


and LOL@ people who think that guns is one of the top REAL issues facing our nation.


It is a REAL issue. If you do not think it is, then you have no clue whats going on. You can laugh at the people that believe in the right to bare arms, or you sit back think about the FUNDAMENTAL problem at hand. So sit back and think about it, and you will then realize (maybe) why the issue of gun control is so huge, and extremely important to this country. Any individual for limiting gun usage by law abiding citizens, instantly looses my vote. Socialists loose my vote also, so democrats are out of question after those two criteria. So now I am left with the republican party, ohh joy... (sarcasm)

[tony]

Dennis Kucinich is far from a socialist.. don't group all democrats into being one way

[Danny]

Dennis Kucinich is far from a socialist.. don't group all democrats into being one way

Well he wants socialized health care, supports double taxation, and supports limited rights to bare arms concerning law abiding citizens. Socialistic enough for me.

Briefly browsing his page, he seems to be a demand sider.. is this correct?

[SL65AMG]

It is a REAL issue. If you do not think it is, then you have no clue whats going on. You can laugh at the people that believe in the right to bare arms, or you sit back think about the FUNDAMENTAL problem at hand. So sit back and think about it, and you will then realize (maybe) why the issue of gun control is so huge, and extremely important to this country. Any individual for limiting gun usage by law abiding citizens, instantly looses my vote. Socialists loose my vote also, so democrats are out of question after those two criteria. So now I am left with the republican party, ohh joy... (sarcasm)

bro...he apparently doesn't have a ****ing clue.... so don't waste your time on him.

[Danny]

bro...he apparently doesn't have a ****ing clue.... so don't waste your time on him.

sorry.. lol

Tony got me going on his buddy. Still want to read into that guys tax plan a little more, it was kinda interesting/ kinda likable at first glance.. Tony has created more homework for me lol :D

[allmotoronly]

I don't give a **** who wins as long as they dont take any more of my money and give it to a bunch of worthless bums who work the system so they can stay home all day while I work, and drive a $50k escalade while I'm stuck with a $30k car that I make payments on. FUCK welfare, FUCK unemployment, and FUCK anyone who abuses it.

The best thing I have heard so far is the idea of equal taxes for everyone. Its bull**** that I get taxed more than some people just because I work hard and earn more money. The only people who object to equal taxation are those who dont have the initiative to go out and get a better job and make more money themselves.

[allmotoronly]

Also anyone who wants stricter gun control is an idiot. Why do we need stricter gun control? Maybe we need stricter criminal control. 90% of people who commit a crime with a gun already have a record. They are CRIMINALS. Who really believes that enacting stricter gun laws is going to keep someone who breaks the law for a living from breaking the law and getting a gun????????? They will find a way. Crack is illegal, and you can go out and buy crack easier than going out and buying a gun as it is. If the gov't enacts stricter gun laws, the only people who will have them are the criminals, and us law abiding citizens will not be able to have a gun to protect ourselves. I would like to see the gov't come try to take my guns. I'll ****ing move to canada.

[SL65AMG]

I don't give a **** who wins as long as they dont take any more of my money and give it to a bunch of worthless bums who work the system so they can stay home all day while I work, and drive a $50k escalade while I'm stuck with a $30k car that I make payments on. FUCK welfare, FUCK unemployment, and FUCK anyone who abuses it.

The best thing I have heard so far is the idea of equal taxes for everyone. Its bull**** that I get taxed more than some people just because I work hard and earn more money. The only people who object to equal taxation are those who dont have the initiative to go out and get a better job and make more money themselves.

Fair tax FTW Ron Paul FTW



Also anyone who wants stricter gun control is an idiot. Why do we need stricter gun control? Maybe we need stricter criminal control. 90% of people who commit a crime with a gun already have a record. They are CRIMINALS. Who really believes that enacting stricter gun laws is going to keep someone who breaks the law for a living from breaking the law and getting a gun????????? They will find a way. Crack is illegal, and you can go out and buy crack easier than going out and buying a gun as it is. If the gov't enacts stricter gun laws, the only people who will have them are the criminals, and us law abiding citizens will not be able to have a gun to protect ourselves. I would like to see the gov't come try to take my guns. I'll ****ing move to canada.

Gun Control FTL Socialists FTL Ron Paul FTW

you cant ban idiots, so they try to ban everything else instead, and say its for the greater good..... if it weren't for the guns we hold in our hands and have the right to own, those liberal morons wouldn't be able to do or say the insanely stupid stuff that they say/do/try to do.

[SL65AMG]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4025303543564443304&q=ron+paul+videos&total=19420&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1


watch this video..... its an hour.... yes but it gives a great idea of what Ron Paul is all about..... there is also a list of the other candidates on the right side of the page

[SL65AMG]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4025303543564443304&q=ron+paul+videos&total=19420&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

Now on the other hand. Hillary's dumb ass does not provide ONE single solution to ANY of the problems faced by the USA. She says what we should do and what should happen and not how to go about doing those things and making them happen.


WHAT THE ****!!!???

Ron Paul provides solutions and ways to go about those for every situation, almost.


she is NOT good president material, regardles of her stance on the issues because she has NO solutions!!! i mean come on people.....wake up!!!!

[tony]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ef/Dennis_Kucinich.jpg/160px-Dennis_Kucinich.jpg


Dennis Kucinich

Dennis Kucinich, born October 8, 1946, in Cleveland, Ohio. Ohio Congressman,former Mayor of Cleveland, and 2004 Democratic primary candidate. Dennis Kucinich is known by many as "The Peace Candidate", having received the 2003 Gandhi Peace Award. Kucinich opposed the war in Iraq and the Patriot Act. Under Kucinich's plan, United Nations peace-keepers would go to Iraq if the Iraqi citizens desire their presence. The Congressman re-introduced legislation to create a United States Department of Peace via HR 808 on February 5, 2007. He is currently campaigning to end the war in Iraq by cutting off funding, if such measures are necessary. He is in support of peaceful diplomatic relations with Iran, and all nations. Kucinich has received many awards praising his courage and work for peace.[58][59] On December 12, 2006, Kucinich announced his candidacy at an event at Cleveland's City Hall.


Abortion

Prior to 2002 Kucinich was described as pro-life, but he currently maintains a pro-choice stance on abortion. In 1996 he was quoted as saying that "life begins at conception", and he has also voted in favor on banning partial birth abortion and preventing the transport of minors to undergo abortion procedures. However since then he has been a strong supporter of abortion rights. Kucinich stated that "women's right-to-choose is essential to gender equality", "abortions should always be legal" and "women can't be free unless they have the right to choose". Kucinich said that, as President, he would not appoint anyone to the U.S. Supreme Court, who would vote to repeal the decision of Roe v. Wade.[2]


Civil liberties

Kucinich supports same-sex marriage and opposes the definition of marriage as "between a man and a woman"[5]. Rather, he feels that all citizens deserve equal treatment under the law, and should be allowed to choose for themselves who they want to marry. He has also voted for the expansion of hate crime laws in the United States and against banning LGBT adoption in Washington, D.C.[6].

Kucinich has opposed the USA PATRIOT Act since its inception. He voted for an amendment to the constitution outlawing flag burning and desecration[7], however he has since taken up the opposite stance and voted against a similar amendment in 2005. [8]

The American Civil Liberties Union granted Kucinich a 100% rating on civil liberties for the 2006-2007 legislative session. In addition he has been given a 89% lifetime rating by the ACLU.


Drugs

Kucinich supports marijuana decriminalization[11] and has said that the "war on drugs benefits only the prison-industrial complex


Gun ownership

Kucinich is rated F by the NRA, indicating a pro-gun control voting record [14]. He expresses that while he supports the 2nd Amendment (and the rest of the Constitution), he feels people need to act responsibly with that power.


Iraq war

Kucinich voted against the authorization of military force against Iraq and he and Ron Paul (R) are the only members of Congress who voted against both the war and all funding bills.[citation needed] "One cannot be against Iraq war yet still fund it," explained Kucinich.[15]

In 2004, he was the only Democratic presidential contender who promised that, as President, he would withdraw U.S. troops immediately. He continues to maintain this position, and offers up a 12-point plan of withdrawal.


Health care

Kucinich alongside fellow Democratic Congressman John Conyers (Michigan) is co-sponsor of a bill to provide health care to all citizens (HR 676).

He is rated 100% by APHA, indicating a pro-public health record.


Immigration

Kucinich supports immigration reform and giving resident aliens the opportunity to become citizens.


He is also well known for his wife, Elizabeth:

http://media.tbo.com/photos/trib/2007/may/0526kcn2.jpg

[tony]

I don't think a socialist would be for legalizing marijuana, being the only presidential candidate to vote against the Patriot act, (please look it up if you dont know what it is) keep abortion legal AND support same sex marriage.

You have to pick your poison here, I don't think any one candidate hits the nail on the head with every issue so you have to decide whats most important, Iraq or Gun Control.. the confederate flag or legalized abortion.

[SL65AMG]

I don't think a socialist would be for legalizing marijuana, being the only presidential candidate to vote against the Patriot act, (please look it up if you dont know what it is) keep abortion legal AND support same sex marriage.

You have to pick your poison here, I don't think any one candidate hits the nail on the head with every issue so you have to decide whats most important, Iraq or Gun Control.. the confederate flag or legalized abortion.


gun control over Iraq any day.....

you lose the right to own weapons and protect yourself, then you have no power at all.

[tony]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dd/Hillary_Rodham_Clinton.jpg/160px-Hillary_Rodham_Clinton.jpg


Senator Hillary Clinton



Energy policy

Clinton supports energy conservation, releasing oil reserves, increasing the number of hydrogen-powered vehicles, and ratification of the Kyoto Protocol. She opposes drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge and the Bush administration's energy policy.[5]

Clinton introduced a plan to Congress to create a Strategic Energy Fund that would inject $50 billion into research, development, and deployment of renewable energy, energy efficiency, clean coal technology, ethanol and other homegrown biofuels, and more.


Free-market capitalism

When asked if she agreed with the quote from Alan Arenholt that she used in her book, It Takes a Village: "The unfettered free market has been the most radically disruptive force in American life in the last generation."[7] Hillary replied that

"I believe that. That's why I put it in the book...And I just believe that there's got to be a healthy tension among all of our institutions in society, and that the market is the driving force behind our prosperity, our freedom in so many respects to make our lives our own but that it cannot be permitted just to run roughshod over people's lives as well."


Health Care

In September 2007, as part of her presidential campaign, Clinton revealed her new American Health Choices Plan, an "individual mandate" universal health care plan that would require health care coverage for all individuals. Clinton explained individuals can keep their current employer-based coverage, or choose an expanded version of Medicare or federal employee health plans.[18][19] The projected cost of the plan is $110 billion annually and will require all employers to cover their employees' health insurance or contribute to the costs of their employees' health insurance coverage; tax credits will be provided to companies with fewer than 25 employees to help cover costs.


Immigration

On March 8, 2006, she strongly criticized H.R. 4437, a bill passed by the House of Representatives in December 2005 and sent to the Senate, that would impose harsher penalties for undocumented workers. Clinton called the measure "a rebuke to what America stands for" and said it would be "an unworkable scheme to try to deport 11 million people, which you have to have a police state to try to do." She believed the solution to the illegal immigration problem was to make "a path to earned citizenship for those who are here, working hard, paying taxes, respecting the law, and willing to meet a high bar for becoming a citizen."[39]

On March 27, Clinton again vowed to block the bill. Speaking to a New York group of open-border advocates, she said: "[The bill] is certainly not in keeping with my understanding of the Scriptures because this bill would literally criminalize the Good Samaritan and probably even Jesus himself."[40]

On April 5, speaking to the US Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, Clinton said her work for her New York constituents could fall afoul of the bill since some of her constituents are undocumented immigrants. "I realize I would be a criminal, too. My staff would be criminal. We help people with all kinds of problems."[41]

In September 2006, Clinton voted for the Secure Fence Act, authorizing the construction of 700 miles of fencing along the United States–Mexico border.


Iraq

On August 22, 2007, Clinton credited the troop surge and related new tactics with helping to produce the Anbar Awakening in Al Anbar Governorate,[72] but said that overall the increase in troops had not met stated goals: "The surge was designed to give the Iraqi government time to take steps to ensure a political solution. It has failed."[72] Furthermore, Clinton, following the lead of Senate Armed Services Committee chair Carl Levin, called on the Iraqi Parliament to replace Nouri al-Maliki as Prime Minister of Iraq with "a less divisive and more unifying figure," saying that Maliki had failed to make progress in bridging differences between the hostile factions within Iraq: "Iraqi leaders have not met their own political benchmarks to share power, modify the de-Baathification laws, pass an oil law, schedule provincial elections, and amend their constitution."[73] (Four days later, Maliki responded angrily to the suggestion, saying, "There are American officials who consider Iraq as if it were one of their villages, for example Hillary Clinton and Carl Levin. This is severe interference in our domestic affairs. Carl Levin and Hillary Clinton are from the Democratic Party and they must demonstrate democracy. I ask them to come to their senses and to talk in a respectful way about Iraq."[74])

By late November 2007, with still more evidence that the surge and other tactics and developments had led to a significant lessening of the civil violence in Iraq,[75] Clinton acknowledged the successes but said that the underlying equation had not changed: "Our troops are the best in the world; if you increase their numbers they are going to make a difference. The fundamental point here is that the purpose of the surge was to create space for political reconciliation and that has not happened, and there is no indication that it is going to happen, or that the Iraqis will meet the political benchmarks. We need to stop refereeing their civil war and start getting out of it."[76] She also sent an open letter to President Bush, expressing concern about a possibly permanent U.S. base-level presence in Iraq: "To be clear, attempts to establish permanent bases in Iraq would damage U.S. interests in Iraq and the broader region, and I will continue to strongly oppose such efforts."[77] Clinton remained generally unwilling to commit to how long U.S. troops would remain in Iraq if she were president.


Gun control

Hillary Clinton favors "sensible gun control legislation" and not limiting gun control lawsuits. [94] She made gun control issues part of her 2000 Senate campaign.[95]

Hillary Clinton was one of 16 Senators who voted against the 2006 Vitter Amendment, which prohibits the funding of the confiscation of lawfully-held firearms during a disaster.


Abortion

Clinton has expressed that she is personally opposed to abortion, but she does not believe it should be illegal.[99]

Clinton has been a staunch supporter of the legal right of a woman to end her pregnancy by abortion as determined in the Roe v. Wade Supreme Court decision of 1973. Clinton believes that the acceptance and availability of birth control and sex education will reduce unwanted pregnancies and the number of abortions.

[tony]

I really do not believe Hillary's stance on free trade.. now THAT is socialist

[Danny]

I don't think a socialist would be for legalizing marijuana, being the only presidential candidate to vote against the Patriot act, (please look it up if you dont know what it is) keep abortion legal AND support same sex marriage.

You have to pick your poison here, I don't think any one candidate hits the nail on the head with every issue so you have to decide whats most important, Iraq or Gun Control.. the confederate flag or legalized abortion.


Glad to hear he voted against the patriot act, and yes i know what it is. I would agree you have to pick your poison with every candidate, which really sucks because all of these issues are extremely important to me. And gun control vs Iraq is a hard one. the way I see gun control is the first step from removing our constitutional rights, its a way of getting their foot in the door so to speak when it comes to removing our rights as Americans. On the other hand retreat in Iraq is unacceptable, and it is never wise decision.

[ZeDFuNk]

Then pack ur sh*t - he will not be elected. Sorry.

It's people like you that ensure this country's demise. Thinking that this country's only suitable presidential candidate "won't get elected" because of whatever reason. America needs to wake the **** up and realize whats going on, and realize that all these ****s running for president will only make our country worse than what it is. Ron Paul is our only hope, and im going to do what i can to spread the word about him and make sure people use their vote for him, beacause i like living in america.. but not if we lose our constitutional rights. There's no way he WONT Get elected president if people actually VOTE For him. Watch any of his debates.. the only person with a logical answer every single time.. he never steers from his veiws and he never backs down, and he stands for whats right in this country. You as a free american should be doing wat you can to make sure the right person get's elected, and stop with the negative "he won't get elected cuz blah blah" bull****. WAKE THE **** UP. HE'LL GET ELECTED IF THE PEOPLE ELECT HIM. THAT'S THE ONE THING THAT'S GOOD ABOUT OUR COUNTRY, WE CHOOSE OUR LEADER.

[ZeDFuNk]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dd/Hillary_Rodham_Clinton.jpg/160px-Hillary_Rodham_Clinton.jpg


Senator Hillary Clinton



Energy policy

Clinton supports energy conservation, releasing oil reserves, increasing the number of hydrogen-powered vehicles, and ratification of the Kyoto Protocol. She opposes drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge and the Bush administration's energy policy.[5]

Clinton introduced a plan to Congress to create a Strategic Energy Fund that would inject $50 billion into research, development, and deployment of renewable energy, energy efficiency, clean coal technology, ethanol and other homegrown biofuels, and more.


Free-market capitalism

When asked if she agreed with the quote from Alan Arenholt that she used in her book, It Takes a Village: "The unfettered free market has been the most radically disruptive force in American life in the last generation."[7] Hillary replied that

"I believe that. That's why I put it in the book...And I just believe that there's got to be a healthy tension among all of our institutions in society, and that the market is the driving force behind our prosperity, our freedom in so many respects to make our lives our own but that it cannot be permitted just to run roughshod over people's lives as well."


Health Care


In September 2007, as part of her presidential campaign, Clinton revealed her new American Health Choices Plan, an "individual mandate" universal health care plan that would require health care coverage for all individuals. Clinton explained individuals can keep their current employer-based coverage, or choose an expanded version of Medicare or federal employee health plans.[18][19] The projected cost of the plan is $110 billion annually and will require all employers to cover their employees' health insurance or contribute to the costs of their employees' health insurance coverage; tax credits will be provided to companies with fewer than 25 employees to help cover costs.


Immigration

On March 8, 2006, she strongly criticized H.R. 4437, a bill passed by the House of Representatives in December 2005 and sent to the Senate, that would impose harsher penalties for undocumented workers. Clinton called the measure "a rebuke to what America stands for" and said it would be "an unworkable scheme to try to deport 11 million people, which you have to have a police state to try to do." She believed the solution to the illegal immigration problem was to make "a path to earned citizenship for those who are here, working hard, paying taxes, respecting the law, and willing to meet a high bar for becoming a citizen."[39]

On March 27, Clinton again vowed to block the bill. Speaking to a New York group of open-border advocates, she said: "[The bill] is certainly not in keeping with my understanding of the Scriptures because this bill would literally criminalize the Good Samaritan and probably even Jesus himself."[40]

On April 5, speaking to the US Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, Clinton said her work for her New York constituents could fall afoul of the bill since some of her constituents are undocumented immigrants. "I realize I would be a criminal, too. My staff would be criminal. We help people with all kinds of problems."[41]

In September 2006, Clinton voted for the Secure Fence Act, authorizing the construction of 700 miles of fencing along the United States–Mexico border.


Iraq

On August 22, 2007, Clinton credited the troop surge and related new tactics with helping to produce the Anbar Awakening in Al Anbar Governorate,[72] but said that overall the increase in troops had not met stated goals: "The surge was designed to give the Iraqi government time to take steps to ensure a political solution. It has failed."[72] Furthermore, Clinton, following the lead of Senate Armed Services Committee chair Carl Levin, called on the Iraqi Parliament to replace Nouri al-Maliki as Prime Minister of Iraq with "a less divisive and more unifying figure," saying that Maliki had failed to make progress in bridging differences between the hostile factions within Iraq: "Iraqi leaders have not met their own political benchmarks to share power, modify the de-Baathification laws, pass an oil law, schedule provincial elections, and amend their constitution."[73] (Four days later, Maliki responded angrily to the suggestion, saying, "There are American officials who consider Iraq as if it were one of their villages, for example Hillary Clinton and Carl Levin. This is severe interference in our domestic affairs. Carl Levin and Hillary Clinton are from the Democratic Party and they must demonstrate democracy. I ask them to come to their senses and to talk in a respectful way about Iraq."[74])

By late November 2007, with still more evidence that the surge and other tactics and developments had led to a significant lessening of the civil violence in Iraq,[75] Clinton acknowledged the successes but said that the underlying equation had not changed: "Our troops are the best in the world; if you increase their numbers they are going to make a difference. The fundamental point here is that the purpose of the surge was to create space for political reconciliation and that has not happened, and there is no indication that it is going to happen, or that the Iraqis will meet the political benchmarks. We need to stop refereeing their civil war and start getting out of it."[76] She also sent an open letter to President Bush, expressing concern about a possibly permanent U.S. base-level presence in Iraq: "To be clear, attempts to establish permanent bases in Iraq would damage U.S. interests in Iraq and the broader region, and I will continue to strongly oppose such efforts."[77] Clinton remained generally unwilling to commit to how long U.S. troops would remain in Iraq if she were president.


Gun control

Hillary Clinton favors "sensible gun control legislation" and not limiting gun control lawsuits. [94] She made gun control issues part of her 2000 Senate campaign.[95]

Hillary Clinton was one of 16 Senators who voted against the 2006 Vitter Amendment, which prohibits the funding of the confiscation of lawfully-held firearms during a disaster.


Abortion

Clinton has expressed that she is personally opposed to abortion, but she does not believe it should be illegal.[99]

Clinton has been a staunch supporter of the legal right of a woman to end her pregnancy by abortion as determined in the Roe v. Wade Supreme Court decision of 1973. Clinton believes that the acceptance and availability of birth control and sex education will reduce unwanted pregnancies and the number of abortions.

I've had the misfortune of meeting hillary clinton, and bill, and i must say, i've never met more lifeless human beings in my life. I shook their hand and felt nothing.. it was like a black hole. They're good at faking.. just like bush was/is. She is by far, the worst candidate in United States History.

[BB6dohcvtec]

It's people like you that ensure this country's demise. Thinking that this country's only suitable presidential candidate "won't get elected" because of whatever reason. America needs to wake the **** up and realize whats going on, and realize that all these ****s running for president will only make our country worse than what it is. Ron Paul is our only hope, and im going to do what i can to spread the word about him and make sure people use their vote for him, beacause i like living in america.. but not if we lose our constitutional rights. There's no way he WONT Get elected president if people actually VOTE For him. Watch any of his debates.. the only person with a logical answer every single time.. he never steers from his veiws and he never backs down, and he stands for whats right in this country. You as a free american should be doing wat you can to make sure the right person get's elected, and stop with the negative "he won't get elected cuz blah blah" bull****. WAKE THE **** UP. HE'LL GET ELECTED IF THE PEOPLE ELECT HIM. THAT'S THE ONE THING THAT'S GOOD ABOUT OUR COUNTRY, WE CHOOSE OUR LEADER.

good luck junior but the primaries are like a month away and its almost impossible for him to come up that quick to take out three of the leading republicans who have the money vault to keep going strong. yea you like our country because we choose the leader, well sadly to say most people don't look at the facts they go by campaign attacks they see on televison because they are lazy and ron paul i think he is a good candidate too but he doesn't have the MONEY to keep it going. statistically the past couple of years the person elected for president was in the top 3 in fundraising from the beginning to the end. oh yea and another thing going against paul is the two states whose primaries generally predict the parties elect both have paul running fourth in the sample polls.

[tony]

I am not joking when I say this but I really think hillary is a lesbian and her marriage to Bill is strictly political. I think the Lewinski thing pissed her off more for the fear that it may have ruined her presidential campaign or it could've been the strategy all along. Joe Biden coming up next

[tony]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f1/Joe_Biden%2C_official_photo_portrait_2.jpg/166px-Joe_Biden%2C_official_photo_portrait_2.jpg

Senator Joe Biden
Joseph Robinette Biden, Jr. (born November 20, 1942) is an American lawyer and politician from Wilmington, Delaware. He is a member of the Democratic Party and the incumbent senior U.S. Senator from Delaware. Biden is currently serving his sixth term and is sixth-longest serving among current Senators (fourth among Democrats) and Delaware's longest-serving Senator. He is the Chairman of the U.S. Senate Committee on Foreign Relations in the 110th Congress. Biden has served in that position in the past, and he has served as Chairman of the U.S. Senate Committee on the Judiciary.


Crime

Joe Biden has been given a 71% approval rating from Coalition on Urban Renewal and Education (CURE) indicating a pro-rehab record on crime. He voted in support of funding for the Community Oriented Policing Services (COPS) program but voted against limiting death penalty appeals indicating his opposition to the death penalty. He voted for heavier punishments for hate crimes and supports a Federal Bureau of Investigation registry for sex offenders.


Energy

Biden opposes drilling for oil in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge and supports governmental funding to find new energy sources.

Biden believes action must be taken on global warming. He supports the creation of a new treaty on climate change that would require emissions reductions from developing countries such as Brazil, India, China, and Mexico. He has also stated his support for investment in technologies to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, as well as the creation of a "cap and trade" system. Biden supports the promotion of renewable energy, including ethanol and other biodiesel fuels.


Gun control

Biden was given an F by the National Rifle Association (NRA) showing a pro-gun control voting record. He supports reinstating a Federal ban on semi-automatic firearms and voted no against prohibition of lawsuits against gun manufacturers.


Immigration

Biden supported President George W. Bush's Comprehensive Immigration Reform Bill. He supports guest-worker visas, and the building of a wall along the border. He voted to provide Social Security to illegal immigrants and supports a path to citizenship.


Homeland security

Biden supported the PATRIOT Act but voted to limit wiretapping on the bill. He supports implementing the 9/11 Commission's recommendations to fight terrorists but voted to preserve habeas corpus rights to the alleged terrorists serving in Guantanamo Bay. In the 1990s he voted in favor of 36 vetoed military projects and supports efforts to prevent nuclear proliferation. He was given a 60% approval rating from the American Civil Liberties Union reflecting a mixed voting record on civil rights issues. During a debate on November 15, 2007 Biden clarified the factuality of the PATRIOT Act and his continued support for it and his opposition to racial profiling.


Iraq

Biden voted in favor of the invasions of Afghanistan in 2001 and Iraq in 2003. He has since said that he believes it was a mistake to support the Iraq war because it has been mismanaged by the Bush Administration. He supports a five-step plan to get victory and remove troops from Iraq.


1. Establish One Iraq, with Three Regions
Federalize Iraq in accordance with its constitution by establishing three largely autonomous regions - Shiite, Sunni and Kurd -- with a strong but limited central government in Baghdad
Put the central government in charge of truly common interests: border defense, foreign policy, oil production and revenues
Form regional governments -- Kurd, Sunni and Shiite -- responsible for administering their own regions

2. Share Oil Revenues
Gain agreement for the federal solution from the Sunni Arabs by guaranteeing them 20 percent of all present and future oil revenues -- an amount roughly proportional to their size -- which would make their region economically viable
Empower the central government to set national oil policy and distribute the revenues, which would attract needed foreign investment and reinforce each community's interest in keeping Iraq intact and protecting the oil infrastructure

3. Convene International Conference, Enforce Regional Non-Aggression Pact
Convene with the U.N. a regional security conference where Iraq's neighbors, including Iran, pledge to support Iraq's power sharing agreement and respect Iraq's borders
Engage Iraq's neighbors directly to overcome their suspicions and focus their efforts on stabilizing Iraq, not undermining it
Create a standing Contact Group, to include the major powers, that would engage Iraq's neighbors and enforce their commitments

4. Responsibly Drawdown US Troops

Direct U.S. military commanders to develop a plan to withdraw and re-deploy almost all U.S. forces from Iraq by the end of 2007

Maintain in or near Iraq a small residual force -- perhaps 20,000 troops -- to strike any concentration of terrorists, help keep Iraq's neighbors honest and train its security forces

5. Increase Reconstruction Assistance and Create a Jobs Program Provide more reconstruction assistance, conditioned on the protection of minority and women's rights and the establishment of a jobs program to give Iraqi youth an alternative to the militia and criminal gangs. Insist that other countries take the lead in funding reconstruction by making good on old commitments and providing new ones -- especially the oil-rich Arab Gulf countries


Economic Issues

Biden is against the Bush administration's tax cuts and would "take back one year of the tax cuts for Americans who make over a million dollars a year, and put this money in a dedicated Homeland Security and Public Safety Trust Fund to implement the 9/11 Commission recommendations and invest in law enforcement."[13] Biden supports a balanced budget amendment.

Biden was given a 32% approval rating from the United States Chamber of Commerce. He favors taking burdens off corporations to prevent outsourcing. He voted yes on repealing tax subsidies for companies that outsource jobs and yes on restrictions on personal bankruptcy.

Biden cites high health care and energy costs as two major threats to the prosperty of American businesses, and believes that addressing these issues will improve American economic competitiveness.[14] Biden was given a 100% approval rating from AFL-CIO indicating a heavily pro-union voting record. Biden was given a 42% approval rating from the Cato Institute, revealing a mixed record on free trade. He opposed the Dominican Republic-Central America Free Trade Agreement (CAFTA) but supports normalizing relations with China, Vietnam and the Andean nations. He opposes free trade agreements with Oman, Singapore, and Chile.

Biden was given a 100% approval rating from the American Public Health Association (APHA). He supports funding for health care to allow all people access.Biden is opposed to the privatization of social security and was given an 89% approval rating from the Alliance for Retired Americans (ARA), reflecting a pro-senior citizen voting record. Voted in support of welfare block grants and supports welfare reform.

To protect jobs, compete in a global economy and strengthen families Joe Biden believes the next President must first address two things: energy security and health care. This is not our father's economy - America now competes in a global economy. The price of energy is set by the global marketplace. Developing our own sources of energy aren't enough to protect us from high prices that cost businesses and families -- we must invest in using energy more efficiently and become the leader in energy innovation. By 2008, the average Fortune 500 company will spend as much on health care as it will make in profit. In other countries their competitors will not have to bear these costs. Joe Biden believes America will continue to dominate the global economy by putting energy security and health care reform at the top of the agenda

[SL65AMG]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f1/Joe_Biden%2C_official_photo_portrait_2.jpg/166px-Joe_Biden%2C_official_photo_portrait_2.jpg

Senator Joe Biden
Joseph Robinette Biden, Jr. (born November 20, 1942) is an American lawyer and politician from Wilmington, Delaware. He is a member of the Democratic Party and the incumbent senior U.S. Senator from Delaware. Biden is currently serving his sixth term and is sixth-longest serving among current Senators (fourth among Democrats) and Delaware's longest-serving Senator. He is the Chairman of the U.S. Senate Committee on Foreign Relations in the 110th Congress. Biden has served in that position in the past, and he has served as Chairman of the U.S. Senate Committee on the Judiciary.


Crime

Joe Biden has been given a 71% approval rating from Coalition on Urban Renewal and Education (CURE) indicating a pro-rehab record on crime. He voted in support of funding for the Community Oriented Policing Services (COPS) program but voted against limiting death penalty appeals indicating his opposition to the death penalty. He voted for heavier punishments for hate crimes and supports a Federal Bureau of Investigation registry for sex offenders.


Energy

Biden opposes drilling for oil in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge and supports governmental funding to find new energy sources.

Biden believes action must be taken on global warming. He supports the creation of a new treaty on climate change that would require emissions reductions from developing countries such as Brazil, India, China, and Mexico. He has also stated his support for investment in technologies to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, as well as the creation of a "cap and trade" system. Biden supports the promotion of renewable energy, including ethanol and other biodiesel fuels.


Gun control

Biden was given an F by the National Rifle Association (NRA) showing a pro-gun control voting record. He supports reinstating a Federal ban on semi-automatic firearms and voted no against prohibition of lawsuits against gun manufacturers.


Immigration

Biden supported President George W. Bush's Comprehensive Immigration Reform Bill. He supports guest-worker visas, and the building of a wall along the border. He voted to provide Social Security to illegal immigrants and supports a path to citizenship.


Homeland security

Biden supported the PATRIOT Act but voted to limit wiretapping on the bill. He supports implementing the 9/11 Commission's recommendations to fight terrorists but voted to preserve habeas corpus rights to the alleged terrorists serving in Guantanamo Bay. In the 1990s he voted in favor of 36 vetoed military projects and supports efforts to prevent nuclear proliferation. He was given a 60% approval rating from the American Civil Liberties Union reflecting a mixed voting record on civil rights issues. During a debate on November 15, 2007 Biden clarified the factuality of the PATRIOT Act and his continued support for it and his opposition to racial profiling.


Iraq

Biden voted in favor of the invasions of Afghanistan in 2001 and Iraq in 2003. He has since said that he believes it was a mistake to support the Iraq war because it has been mismanaged by the Bush Administration. He supports a five-step plan to get victory and remove troops from Iraq.


1. Establish One Iraq, with Three Regions
Federalize Iraq in accordance with its constitution by establishing three largely autonomous regions - Shiite, Sunni and Kurd -- with a strong but limited central government in Baghdad
Put the central government in charge of truly common interests: border defense, foreign policy, oil production and revenues
Form regional governments -- Kurd, Sunni and Shiite -- responsible for administering their own regions

2. Share Oil Revenues
Gain agreement for the federal solution from the Sunni Arabs by guaranteeing them 20 percent of all present and future oil revenues -- an amount roughly proportional to their size -- which would make their region economically viable
Empower the central government to set national oil policy and distribute the revenues, which would attract needed foreign investment and reinforce each community's interest in keeping Iraq intact and protecting the oil infrastructure

3. Convene International Conference, Enforce Regional Non-Aggression Pact
Convene with the U.N. a regional security conference where Iraq's neighbors, including Iran, pledge to support Iraq's power sharing agreement and respect Iraq's borders
Engage Iraq's neighbors directly to overcome their suspicions and focus their efforts on stabilizing Iraq, not undermining it
Create a standing Contact Group, to include the major powers, that would engage Iraq's neighbors and enforce their commitments

4. Responsibly Drawdown US Troops

Direct U.S. military commanders to develop a plan to withdraw and re-deploy almost all U.S. forces from Iraq by the end of 2007

Maintain in or near Iraq a small residual force -- perhaps 20,000 troops -- to strike any concentration of terrorists, help keep Iraq's neighbors honest and train its security forces

5. Increase Reconstruction Assistance and Create a Jobs Program Provide more reconstruction assistance, conditioned on the protection of minority and women's rights and the establishment of a jobs program to give Iraqi youth an alternative to the militia and criminal gangs. Insist that other countries take the lead in funding reconstruction by making good on old commitments and providing new ones -- especially the oil-rich Arab Gulf countries


Economic Issues

Biden is against the Bush administration's tax cuts and would "take back one year of the tax cuts for Americans who make over a million dollars a year, and put this money in a dedicated Homeland Security and Public Safety Trust Fund to implement the 9/11 Commission recommendations and invest in law enforcement."[13] Biden supports a balanced budget amendment.

Biden was given a 32% approval rating from the United States Chamber of Commerce. He favors taking burdens off corporations to prevent outsourcing. He voted yes on repealing tax subsidies for companies that outsource jobs and yes on restrictions on personal bankruptcy.

Biden cites high health care and energy costs as two major threats to the prosperty of American businesses, and believes that addressing these issues will improve American economic competitiveness.[14] Biden was given a 100% approval rating from AFL-CIO indicating a heavily pro-union voting record. Biden was given a 42% approval rating from the Cato Institute, revealing a mixed record on free trade. He opposed the Dominican Republic-Central America Free Trade Agreement (CAFTA) but supports normalizing relations with China, Vietnam and the Andean nations. He opposes free trade agreements with Oman, Singapore, and Chile.

Biden was given a 100% approval rating from the American Public Health Association (APHA). He supports funding for health care to allow all people access.Biden is opposed to the privatization of social security and was given an 89% approval rating from the Alliance for Retired Americans (ARA), reflecting a pro-senior citizen voting record. Voted in support of welfare block grants and supports welfare reform.

To protect jobs, compete in a global economy and strengthen families Joe Biden believes the next President must first address two things: energy security and health care. This is not our father's economy - America now competes in a global economy. The price of energy is set by the global marketplace. Developing our own sources of energy aren't enough to protect us from high prices that cost businesses and families -- we must invest in using energy more efficiently and become the leader in energy innovation. By 2008, the average Fortune 500 company will spend as much on health care as it will make in profit. In other countries their competitors will not have to bear these costs. Joe Biden believes America will continue to dominate the global economy by putting energy security and health care reform at the top of the agenda


based on this info..... he sucks at life as well..... i really dont think that there is any candidate that comes ANYWHERE close to ron paul. unfortunately theres too many dumb idiots in this country.

ron paul is good for everyone. he is against the war, he is pro life, he is a constitutionalist, he is pro gun, he is going to abolish the IRS and make people responsible for their own actions..... hes going to make things the way they SHOULD be.....


no one else will..... they are all in the running for their own personal reasons and they dont give a **** about you.

[Clegger]

If a Republican wins again... I'm moving to Ireland

[Danny]

based on this info..... he sucks at life as well..... i really dont think that there is any candidate that comes ANYWHERE close to ron paul. unfortunately theres too many dumb idiots in this country.

ron paul is good for everyone. he is against the war, he is pro life, he is a constitutionalist, he is pro gun, he is going to abolish the IRS and make people responsible for their own actions..... hes going to make things the way they SHOULD be.....


no one else will..... they are all in the running for their own personal reasons and they dont give a **** about you.


If i remember correctly, Pauls approach to ending the war is brainless and ignorant. Just about everything else about him i like, I need to research his stance a little more, but I am fairly confident i remember a couple of his comments regard ending the war, they were less than intelligent. He seems to be a decent economist, from some of the topics i have seen him speak on.

[SL65AMG]

If a Republican wins again... I'm moving to Ireland

so what are the democrats so great at?

[Clegger]

so what are the democrats so great at?

hmm not starting wars but FINISHING THEM!

[Danny]

hmm not starting wars but FINISHING THEM!

Link to democratic plan to end the war, more specifically: one that does not involving leaving a country that can not run/sustain itself, and one that does take the attitude "the republicans caused the mess, screw Iraq, they can fend for them self". Thanks.

[XanRules]

Well, Biden's plan is right up there.

:D

[BB6dohcvtec]

Link to democratic plan to end the war, more specifically: one that does not involving leaving a country that can not run/sustain itself, and one that does take the attitude "the republicans caused the mess, screw Iraq, they can fend for them self". Thanks.

go back and reread...because that **** does not make since. from what i get from that you actually care about Iraq. Because i am with the people that say screw Iraq, they can fend for themselves.

[Danny]

go back and reread...because that **** does not make since. from what i get from that you actually care about Iraq. Because i am with the people that say screw Iraq, they can fend for themselves.

It makes sense, the criteria just does not fit into your plan for ending the war. I am not one to give up, and leave a big screw up for others to fix (not to mention the possible direct impact it could have on us here at home). It is just is not my mindset, to give up and say "screw em", if thats your mindset.. I can respect that to some degree, it just goes against my grain, thats all.

[SL65AMG]

hmm not starting wars but FINISHING THEM!


LOL you could only think of one thing..... yeah.... my point exactly.....


but im not saying that republicans are great, they suck too.,...but the dem's suck more.


no one can do things right..... and the only one who i have seen even try to do things right is ron paul......

[{X}Echo419]

if Hillary or Baraka get the nomination I'll bet anything who ever the Rep. candidate is he will win.

[BB6dohcvtec]

if Hillary or Baraka get the nomination I'll bet anything who ever the Rep. candidate is he will win.

i'll take that bet. :goodjob:

[TheGodfather]

Bombs not bongs.

Shut those hippies up and bomb the hell out of those who oppose us.

[schmiddr2]

Hope this helps.

[0p7!mu5]

dude i kinda admit im a lil torn between ron paul and Obama. Immigration i think nobody had a claear win and same with healthcare but hillary can shove it she's acting like Gore... riding on Bill's coatails.

[SPOOLIN]

Im voting mccain.

[Danny]

dude i kinda admit im a lil torn between ron paul and Obama. Immigration i think nobody had a claear win and same with healthcare but hillary can shove it she's acting like Gore... riding on Bill's coatails.


Obama wants socialized health care, so thats a clear loss! And Ron Paul, well considering he is not a presidential candidate, I am not sure how you plan to possibly vote for him. Do the country a favor and educate yourself a little more, uneducated voters is a huge problem with this country.

[SPOOLIN]

yeah for real, I saw hippies and clean cut people on the same street corner for weekends in a row holding up signs for ron paul...lol he never had a chance apparently.

[tony]

Obama wants socialized health care, so thats a clear loss! And Ron Paul, well considering he is not a presidential candidate, I am not sure how you plan to possibly vote for him. Do the country a favor and educate yourself a little more, uneducated voters is a huge problem with this country.

Much better than mandated healthcare that Hillary is proposing.

[BB6dohcvtec]

Much better than mandated healthcare that Hillary is proposing.

x2....well McCain is the Republican candidate... democratic election is still close, its still really funny if you look at the turnout of the two parties and compare.

[BB6dohcvtec]

Clinton won texas and ohio FAWWWWWKK!!! oh well obama still INCREASED his delegate lead.

[tony]

Clinton won texas and ohio FAWWWWWKK!!! oh well obama still INCREASED his delegate lead.

Yeah no biggie, this was her chance to take the lead and she didnt come close.

[MistaCee]

Yea the only reason why she won, was because of the bad timing in Obama's NAFTA controversy

[Danny]

Much better than mandated healthcare that Hillary is proposing.


very true, but still... government run/influenced health care, no thanks. It just makes you and I foot the bill for lazy people even more than we currently do.

edit: Huckabee dropped today/last night, for obvious reasons.

[Craigers2k]

Much better than mandated healthcare that Hillary is proposing.

Eh, not much. If I remember right both plans call for limiting the profit margins of insurance companies. How long will those last after investors flee from the market?

Also, lets not forget, democrats said that social security would be voluntary. Look where they have taken it. It will only be a matter of years before socialist democrats make Obama's plan mandated.

The American people have allowed themselves to be convinced that healthcare is a 'right' and that they shouldn't have to pay for it. Get ready for socialism, personal responsibility is lost in this company.

[tony]

Eh, not much. If I remember right both plans call for limiting the profit margins of insurance companies. How long will those last after investors flee from the market?

Also, lets not forget, democrats said that social security would be voluntary. Look where they have taken it. It will only be a matter of years before socialist democrats make Obama's plan mandated.

The American people have allowed themselves to be convinced that healthcare is a 'right' and that they shouldn't have to pay for it. Get ready for socialism, personal responsibility is lost in this company.

This dips into a whole another argument but I think capitalism isn't exactly working like it should either. I personally am all for a single payer healthcare system, but again that is a different argument.

The healthcare industry is licking their chops at Hillary's plan, I do not know about the capped profits but I do know mandated coverage pushes premiums upwards big time. Even Mitt Romney abandoned his implementation of mandated coverage in Massachusetts.

[BB6dohcvtec]

This dips into a whole another argument but I think capitalism isn't exactly working like it should either. I personally am all for a single payer healthcare system, but again that is a different argument.

The healthcare industry is licking their chops at Hillary's plan, I do not know about the capped profits but I do know mandated coverage pushes premiums upwards big time. Even Mitt Romney abandoned his implementation of mandated coverage in Massachusetts.

Hell yea they are, i bet they are pushing some funds into her campaign because they would see their money plus sum back if she is elected. True she has the solutions for america but its the same solutions almost every other president has had, and the same ones most americans are tired of seeing.

[SL65AMG]

Hope this helps.

holy **** batman. who the **** let the communists in? send the bastards to china....

[SL65AMG]

This dips into a whole another argument but I think capitalism isn't exactly working like it should either. I personally am all for a single payer healthcare system, but again that is a different argument.

The healthcare industry is licking their chops at Hillary's plan, I do not know about the capped profits but I do know mandated coverage pushes premiums upwards big time. Even Mitt Romney abandoned his implementation of mandated coverage in Massachusetts.


capitalism(im thinking you meant A republic, or a democracy) works. only not when you let these ****ing clowns have control and screw everything up...

[tony]

capitalism(im thinking you meant A republic, or a democracy) works. only not when you let these ****ing clowns have control and screw everything up...

Nah I definitely meant capitalism, not necessarily meaning free trade but heres the thing... Government and Capitalism should be as seperate as Church and State. When lobbyists are able to persuade governments through capitalism then the system fails the people and this is a major problem to the current state of our economy. I am all for free trade but when you mix that in with those that make laws to govern then you lose the essence of what this republic was to be.

[Craigers2k]

This dips into a whole another argument but I think capitalism isn't exactly working like it should either. I personally am all for a single payer healthcare system, but again that is a different argument.

Personally I'm a Ron Paul fan. I haven't heard any other canidate use the words freedom, liberty, and constitution. Most people either don't know or have forgotten the fact that we are a republic and not a true democracy. Our constitution sets up laws that no majority can overthrow. The fact that we will most likely elect a socialist president this year is scary.

For government healthcare? no thanks, I enjoy having the option to CHOOSE WHAT I WANT AND WHEN I WANT IT. Why should I (one who is healthy, works out, eats well) have to help pay for someone else's healthcare that smokes, drinks, is lazy and/or overweight? THAT is unethical. Yes our current system has problems, but where did those come from? I think Ron Paul says it best with this:

As a medical doctor, I’ve seen first-hand how bureaucratic red tape interferes with the doctor-patient relationship and drives costs higher. The current system of third-party payers takes decision-making away from doctors, leaving patients feeling rushed and worsening the quality of care. Yet health insurance premiums and drug costs keep rising. Clearly a new approach is needed. Congress needs to craft innovative legislation that makes health care more affordable without raising taxes or increasing the deficit. It also needs to repeal bad laws that keep health care costs higher than necessary. We should remember that HMOs did not arise because of free-market demand, but rather because of government mandates. The HMO Act of 1973 requires all but the smallest employers to offer their employees HMO coverage, and the tax code allows businesses- but not individuals- to deduct the cost of health insurance premiums. The result is the illogical coupling of employment and health insurance, which often leaves the unemployed without needed catastrophic coverage.

While many in Congress are happy to criticize HMOs today, the public never hears how the present system was imposed upon the American people by federal law. As usual, government intervention in the private market failed to deliver the promised benefits and caused unintended consequences, but Congress never blames itself for the problems created by bad laws. Instead, we are told more government- in the form of “universal coverage”- is the answer. But government already is involved in roughly two-thirds of all health care spending, through Medicare, Medicaid, and other programs.

For decades, the U.S. healthcare system was the envy of the entire world. Not coincidentally, there was far less government involvement in medicine during this time. America had the finest doctors and hospitals, patients enjoyed high quality, affordable medical care, and thousands of private charities provided health services for the poor. Doctors focused on treating patients, without the red tape and threat of lawsuits that plague the profession today. Most Americans paid cash for basic services, and had insurance only for major illnesses and accidents. This meant both doctors and patients had an incentive to keep costs down, as the patient was directly responsible for payment, rather than an HMO or government program.

The lesson is clear: when government and other third parties get involved, health care costs spiral. The answer is not a system of outright socialized medicine, but rather a system that encourages everyone- doctors, hospitals, patients, and drug companies- to keep costs down. As long as “somebody else” is paying the bill, the bill will be too high.

It's sad to see how the democrats have become socialist, and most republicans liberals. It seems like the principles this country was founded on, true constitutional convervatism, are gone. Countless are looking toward the government for handouts, and we keep giving them ballots. I look forward to losing even more liberties and freedoms this election. :(

Ok I'm done.:D

[tony]

Do you really think YOU choose or the insurance company? When you need the operation they deem insufficient to their profit margin you feel that is superior to quality healthcare for everyone?

[Craigers2k]

I probably dislike the current system as much as you do. However, I do not feel socialism is the answer. There is NO incentive for me to shop around for care if I ever need anything. NO competition in the marketplace. Why would prices be cheap? Day to day hospital visits should be paid out of pocket. I don't go to Allstate if my car breaks down or needs an oil change. Only if something drastic happens. Why do we need insurance companies or the government to handle everything?

Health care is not a right. No where in our constitution does it guarantee individuals the right to 'free' (via taxes!)health insurance. In fact, forcing individuals into a government mandated system goes against everything this county was founded on. Also, you assume that a national single payer system would mean quality care? What about those in Canada and the UK that have to wait weeks, sometimes months for health care?

[tony]

I probably dislike the current system as much as you do. However, I do not feel socialism is the answer. There is NO incentive for me to shop around for care if I ever need anything. NO competition in the marketplace. Why would prices be cheap? Day to day hospital visits should be paid out of pocket. I don't go to Allstate if my car breaks down or needs an oil change. Only if something drastic happens. Why do we need insurance companies or the government to handle everything?

Health care is not a right. No where in our constitution does it guarantee individuals the right to 'free' (via taxes!)health insurance. In fact, forcing individuals into a government mandated system goes against everything this county was founded on. Also, you assume that a national single payer system would mean quality care? What about those in Canada and the UK that have to wait weeks, sometimes months for health care?

Education isn't a right either, should we do away with education funded by the taxpayers? Voting isn't even a constitutional right.. I could go on and on but do you know why Canadians have to wait? Their doctors come to the U.S because of such high salaries here, it has nothing to do with their system. France, Canada.. all these places laugh at our healthcare system because it is so backwards.

Not everyone has the means to pay for their own healthcare at the current rate, that is why millions of american citizens go without and the taxpayers foot the bill anyway.

[Craigers2k]

Education isn't a right either, should we do away with education funded by the taxpayers?

Your right, and our government education system is a complete JOKE. Here (http://www.denverpost.com/technology/ci_8442882) is a prime example of our wonderful government system. We need more incentives for private schools, homeschoolers, etc. But thats another topic...


Voting isn't even a constitutional right..

Again correct, and I find it funny when people talk about their constitution 'right' to vote.


I could go on and on but do you know why Canadians have to wait? Their doctors come to the U.S because of such high salaries here, it has nothing to do with their system. France, Canada.. all these places laugh at our healthcare system because it is so backwards.

Britian is the exact same way. Not too long ago there were stories of how a decent percentage of the population had performed their own dental work because they were in such pain and didn't want to wait the weeks or months it took to see a doctor. Maybe the problem is that since everything is free, people go to the hospital or emergency room when they get a cold! Yes our system has problems, no more government is not the answer. we need less.


Not everyone has the means to pay for their own healthcare at the current rate, that is why millions of american citizens go without and the taxpayers foot the bill anyway.

The fact that the taxpayers pay for it is pathetic. Again, people need to be held responsible for their own bills and not depend on the government to take from others. Do you know that of the 40 million or so uninsured, some estimate about 10-12 million of those to be illegals? And millions more are younger, who can afford health insurance, but choose not to because they have so few medical expenses. How would a mandated system help them. By forcing them to 'buy' something they don't want or need? What about the millions that 'can't' afford insurance because they are too busy buying HDTV's and expensive cars? Yeah, lets dish out more money to cover them as well.

Socialized medicine is nothing more than theft. Taking tax money from those that can afford it and giving it to those that can't.

[SPOOLIN]

Voting is not a right, its a DUTY. Do your duty or get the hell out of this country.

Healthcare is fine in my books how it is, i just request that people working for small business like me didn't get screwed in the ass with the crappy high premiums while bigger companies and government jobs barely pay **** and get awesome coverage like dental and eye care, etc. Its a very unbalanced issue.

[BB6dohcvtec]

Voting is not a right, its a DUTY. Do your duty or get the hell out of this country.

Healthcare is fine in my books how it is, i just request that people working for small business like me didn't get screwed in the ass with the crappy high premiums while bigger companies and government jobs barely pay **** and get awesome coverage like dental and eye care, etc. Its a very unbalanced issue.

ok than why say that healthcare is fine how it is? I mean if you don't like the high premiums because you belong to a small business you shouldn't need to request anything because remember healthcare is fine like it is.

[tony]

ok than why say that healthcare is fine how it is? I mean if you don't like the high premiums because you belong to a small business you shouldn't need to request anything because remember healthcare is fine like it is.

lol My point exactly, that post is a complete contradiction. You think the system is fine but you don't like the cost of healthcare currently.

[SPOOLIN]

ok than why say that healthcare is fine how it is? I mean if you don't like the high premiums because you belong to a small business you shouldn't need to request anything because remember healthcare is fine like it is.

dude i said the healthcare system is fine, premiums are part of INSURANCE, THE HEALTH INSURANCE SYSTEM IS STUPID.

my post is pretty damn clear. Premiums are not part of healthcare system, just the insurance that pays for it for you.

[yunglaosta]

im more on the democatic side. either Barrack or Hillary would do. im not really a big fan on the republican side. that fair tax thing is kinda of a good thing and bad...but hey i rather stick with income tax. anyone hear about Ron Paul saying people should officially have the right to bear arms without any gun license?

[BB6dohcvtec]

dude i said the healthcare system is fine, premiums are part of INSURANCE, THE HEALTH INSURANCE SYSTEM IS STUPID.

my post is pretty damn clear. Premiums are not part of healthcare system, just the insurance that pays for it for you.

If you say sooo....

but the health insurance system as you call it is part of the healthcare system that we currently have.

[SPOOLIN]

im more on the democatic side. either Barrack or Hillary would do. im not really a big fan on the republican side. that fair tax thing is kinda of a good thing and bad...but hey i rather stick with income tax. anyone hear about Ron Paul saying people should officially have the right to bear arms without any gun license?

might as well not worry about a license, anyone can snatch a gun and blow someones head off.

[man]

If you say sooo....

but the health insurance system as you call it is part of the healthcare system that we currently have.

Depends on how you look at it.

[BB6dohcvtec]

anyway you look at it you mean? if health insurance isn't in the equation than how will the healthcare system be funded strictly out of our pockets in full? some people can do that but i know I can't.

[Craigers2k]

Healthcare is not a right. The constitution does not give anyone the right to take from one individual and give it to another.

[schmiddr2]

holy **** batman. who the **** let the communists in? send the bastards to china....

Yeah, no joke! I read it a few times and compared closely so I know what you mean. I'm pissed as 4 of those choices.


Healthcare is not a right. The constitution does not give anyone the right to take from one individual and give it to another.

The Bill of Rights also restricts Congress (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Congress)' power by prohibiting it from making any law respecting establishment of religion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_religion) and by prohibiting the federal government from depriving any person of life, liberty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty), or property (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Property) without due process (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Due_process) of law. So there's the law.

I have no problem with a democrat for president, but beware they probably will try something like this: More than two centuries since the Constitution Convention at Philadelphia in 1787 have seen many state applications to Congress submitted by the respective state legislatures (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_legislature_%28United_States%29#United_State s) calling for the "Convention for proposing Amendments," (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_to_propose_amendment_to_U.S._Constituti on) authorized by Article V (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Five_of_the_United_States_Constitution) of the U.S. Constitution.(con-con)
When two-thirds of the state legislatures shall apply - i.e. both houses of the legislature in 34 states - then Article V of the Constitution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Five_of_the_United_States_Constitution) requires the Congress (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congress_of_the_United_States) to "call a convention for proposing amendments."

So get your state legislatures email and be ready when the dems take office.

[japan4racing]

im more a republican than dem but i cant bring my self to vote for mccain. i think what ppl need to do is look beyond parties. dont vote for anyone because they are the party you lean towards. i dont really give a **** if you are white, black, brown, yellow, male, or female just show that you can run this country worth a ****. without ron paul on the ticket im totally lost on who to vote for. ron paul was clearly the best for this job but he doesnt have enough ties to the big corporations and does not have all the programs to give away money to the lame and lazy....no one will vote for him except middle class folks like myself.

this election is tainted beyond repair so i have accepted that we are ****ed. you are gonna have ppl voting for hillary because its historical to have a woman president, ppl voting for obama because he is black and that would be historical, ppl voting for either of them becuase they have a skewed perception of what republicans stand for (they have hatred for bush in other words), then you got the hard core old schoolers and the mis-informed that will vote for whatever party simply becuase a democrat stays democrat or a republican stays republican...or "mom and dad vote republican so thats what i am gonna do".

im gonna vote for what helps me. im voting for the man or woman that is gonna have the leadership that i benefit from. im not looking at color, sex or party......if it comes down to clinton or mccain...im gonna have to do a write in.

[tony]

Healthcare is not a right. The constitution does not give anyone the right to take from one individual and give it to another.

Is this the strongest argument you can make against universal healthcare? I can produce a list of things the government provides that is not in the constitution.

What amazes me is people who cannot afford healthcare argue against a universal plan.. what the hell?

[BB6dohcvtec]

im more a republican than dem but i cant bring my self to vote for mccain. i think what ppl need to do is look beyond parties. dont vote for anyone because they are the party you lean towards. i dont really give a **** if you are white, black, brown, yellow, male, or female just show that you can run this country worth a ****. without ron paul on the ticket im totally lost on who to vote for. ron paul was clearly the best for this job but he doesnt have enough ties to the big corporations and does not have all the programs to give away money to the lame and lazy....no one will vote for him except middle class folks like myself.

this election is tainted beyond repair so i have accepted that we are ****ed. you are gonna have ppl voting for hillary because its historical to have a woman president, ppl voting for obama because he is black and that would be historical, ppl voting for either of them becuase they have a skewed perception of what republicans stand for (they have hatred for bush in other words), then you got the hard core old schoolers and the mis-informed that will vote for whatever party simply becuase a democrat stays democrat or a republican stays republican...or "mom and dad vote republican so thats what i am gonna do".

im gonna vote for what helps me. im voting for the man or woman that is gonna have the leadership that i benefit from. im not looking at color, sex or party......if it comes down to clinton or mccain...im gonna have to do a write in.

good post finally some real information. but i do have one question I might be one of those people who have a skewed perception of what republicans stand for because lately its changed so much i have no idea. The only thing that hasn't changed about them is their love for the church. Enlighten me because i honestly don't know.

[japan4racing]

good post finally some real information. but i do have one question I might be one of those people who have a skewed perception of what republicans stand for because lately its changed so much i have no idea. The only thing that hasn't changed about them is their love for the church. Enlighten me because i honestly don't know.

what i should have said was they will vote against republican simply because dubya is there now....not because of what ever republicans have to offer. i cant honestly tell you what any of them(dems or reps) stand for....except for "change". they all have a hidden agenda. they are all crooked.

the only difference is that democrats want to have all these programs to give **** to ppl that most of the time dont want to help themselves becuase they can get free govt money. republicans what to stuff their pockets and their buddies pockets at the cost of those of us that actually work. the real losers here are ppl like you and me that are in that middle tax bracket where we make too much money to be considered poor and take place in the democratic handouts but we dont make enough to benefit from the republicans ideas.

this is where paul would have saved us all...hes everything wrapped up in one bundle. of the likely candidates obama would most likely be the best in my honest opinion..because hillary and mccain are out of there minds...mccain wants to stay in iraq for 100 years and hillary thinks that in 60 days she can pull troops out....both ideas would only make sense if they were thought of by a drunken heroin addict snorting drano head-butting a side walk.

and lets be honest the world was not all fun and games with clinton in office either. there were bad times with that administration as well. so what happens if hillary is put in office? dont you think the same **** will be there? im not presidential scholar and i dont claim to have a bunch of knowlege on the subject, but maybe we really do need someone that has not already had there hands in this disaster area known as america. ron paul was the #1 choice for me..and its looking more and more like obama is gonna take his place. this is gonna be a tough election for me.

[Craigers2k]

I can produce a list of things the government provides that is not in the constitution.

Apparently no one is listening.

I have already said what would be wrong with the government running healthcare, though you would think that I wouldn't have to say anything else besides the fact that it would be unconstitutional. So sad to see that we have gotten to a place as a country were the Constitution is no longer considered regarding new policy. People are still told and believe that we are a true democracy.


I can produce a list of things the government provides that is not in the constitution.

So since the imperial federal government has already taken control over parts of our lives that it had no right to we should continue to let it control more? It amazes me how so many liberals piss and moan about the Patriot Act being unconstitutional, yet have no problem with the government taking control of their healthcare. I am not defending the Patriot Act.


What amazes me is people who cannot afford healthcare argue against a universal plan.. what the hell?

Hmmm, maybe because not everyone believes in the government controlling everything we do! Maybe because some of us feel it is NOT ok for the government to take (forcefully if necessary) from on individual to give to someone else who doesn't deserve it. Maybe it's because some still view it as the theft it really is. And maybe, just maybe, some still feel it is wrong to force someone to be something they don't want to do (like force millions to 'buy' health insurance that don't want it).

What doesn't amaze me is that so many people are willing to allow the government to take from others so that they can have free healthcare, or free whatever. Hey, how else can they afford that HDTV? What does amaze me is how little the imperial government has to offer for people to give up their freedoms.

BTW, if that can't afford comment was directed at me, don't even begin to assume what I can and can't afford.

[tony]

You're right.. taxpayers already bear the burden of healthcare anyway so why should the government care? The system is SOOOOO perfect that no changes are needed, great.

And honestly.. I don't care what you can or cannot afford.. the statement is true. People argue against a single payer system when they cannot afford healthcare, it is proven that a system like that is efficient if implemented properly.

[JConner]

Apparently no one is listening.

I have already said what would be wrong with the government running healthcare, though you would think that I wouldn't have to say anything else besides the fact that it would be unconstitutional. So sad to see that we have gotten to a place as a country were the Constitution is no longer considered regarding new policy. People are still told and believe that we are a true democracy.



AMEN! we are a republic! NOT A DEMOCRACY!

[JConner]

ron paul was the #1 choice for me..and its looking more and more like obama is gonna take his place. this is gonna be a tough election for me.

you are an idiot and need to stay away from the poles!

Ron Paul was the most conservative of the bunch and you are willing to just 'settle' for a racist liberal????? Barack is a racist, wants to raise corporate taxes, and supports this bull**** economic boost plan where the government sends everyone checks to "boost the economy." ha

The only thing that will boost the economy is to get rid of corporate taxes.

For God sakes, vote for McCain, not Obama.

[JConner]

im more a republican than dem but i cant bring my self to vote for mccain. i think what ppl need to do is look beyond parties. dont vote for anyone because they are the party you lean towards. i dont really give a **** if you are white, black, brown, yellow, male, or female just show that you can run this country worth a ****. without ron paul on the ticket im totally lost on who to vote for. ron paul was clearly the best for this job but he doesnt have enough ties to the big corporations and does not have all the programs to give away money to the lame and lazy....no one will vote for him except middle class folks like myself.

this election is tainted beyond repair so i have accepted that we are ****ed. you are gonna have ppl voting for hillary because its historical to have a woman president, ppl voting for obama because he is black and that would be historical, ppl voting for either of them becuase they have a skewed perception of what republicans stand for (they have hatred for bush in other words), then you got the hard core old schoolers and the mis-informed that will vote for whatever party simply becuase a democrat stays democrat or a republican stays republican...or "mom and dad vote republican so thats what i am gonna do".

im gonna vote for what helps me. im voting for the man or woman that is gonna have the leadership that i benefit from. im not looking at color, sex or party......if it comes down to clinton or mccain...im gonna have to do a write in.


you need to vote for McCain! I don't agree with most of his views on topics but I do know that he will let our troops finish their job overseas like they want to do. He will protect us from the radical Islam culture that wants everyone in America dead. The war should be the main topic of this election, people are going to wish Bush was still in office once we pull out of Iraq because 10,000 people will die in the next attack... not 2,000!

[BB6dohcvtec]

you need to vote for McCain! I don't agree with most of his views on topics but I do know that he will let our troops finish their job overseas like they want to do. He will protect us from the radical Islam culture that wants everyone in America dead. The war should be the main topic of this election, people are going to wish Bush was still in office once we pull out of Iraq because 10,000 people will die in the next attack... not 2,000!

lulz at your comment. so vote mccain only to finish the job in iraq??? so our poor economy isn't a factor for ya huh?? Bringing more jobs back to the states doesn't matter you either right? we did all we can for the iraqi people..now it time for them and their government to do there part its not up to us. Intell forces of course should stay in Iraq for our benefit here as long as there intell is somewhat accurate, but having as mnay troops as we do there now is uncalled for because now its not our war anymore. The war on terror spreads to more countries than just Iraq. Oh yea give me that list of troops who wants to go back overseas again?

[BB6dohcvtec]

you are an idiot and need to stay away from the poles!

Ron Paul was the most conservative of the bunch and you are willing to just 'settle' for a racist liberal????? Barack is a racist, wants to raise corporate taxes, and supports this bull**** economic boost plan where the government sends everyone checks to "boost the economy." ha

The only thing that will boost the economy is to get rid of corporate taxes.

For God sakes, vote for McCain, not Obama.

wow you are a dumb and ignorant. Please explain how getting rid of corporate taxes will boost the economy. Everybody supported that economic boost plan dems and rep. so please find something better to TRY and get your point across.

[JConner]

lulz at your comment. so vote mccain only to finish the job in iraq??? so our poor economy isn't a factor for ya huh?? Bringing more jobs back to the states doesn't matter you either right? we did all we can for the iraqi people..now it time for them and their government to do there part its not up to us. Intell forces of course should stay in Iraq for our benefit here as long as there intell is somewhat accurate, but having as mnay troops as we do there now is uncalled for because now its not our war anymore. The war on terror spreads to more countries than just Iraq. Oh yea give me that list of troops who wants to go back overseas again?

hell yes the economy is a factor. But NO ****ing liberal that wants to raise taxes on corporations will help the economy. The corporate tax rate needs to be cut in half or done away with in general. That would fix the economy and give people a reason to start a business in the United States! The problem is that people are punished for being rich or having a business here that is why the economy is so ****ed up. People think that the rich CEO's of these companies are so evil, but without these guys LOTS of people would be unemployed.

[japan4racing]

you are an idiot and need to stay away from the poles!

Ron Paul was the most conservative of the bunch and you are willing to just 'settle' for a racist liberal????? Barack is a racist, wants to raise corporate taxes, and supports this bull**** economic boost plan where the government sends everyone checks to "boost the economy." ha

The only thing that will boost the economy is to get rid of corporate taxes.

For God sakes, vote for McCain, not Obama.

why am i an idiot? because i form my own opinion? because i have looked over what each man/woman has to offer and i liked pauls offering the most? because i dont vote blindly? all of these candidates have flaws.....open your eyes!!!

to me paul was the man for the job...simple as that. and in my honest opinion i think mccains outlook is wrong. its my opinion.....you dont have to like it.

i voted for bush and to this day i dont feel like i made a mistake. i think that he did a pretty damn good job considering the hand he was dealt. however, we are now in a war with religious fanatics. you cant beat these guys. they want to die. they want to kill you and kill them selves in the process. you cant beat these ppl! if we stay there is it going to save any lives? the next attack will be 10000 ppl....how many soldiers are we gonna lose in the next 10, 15, or 20 years...how much money is this country gonna spend in the next 10, 15, or 20 years? we are spending approx a billion a month right now just on the war(this was in the news..i cannot remember the exact amount but it was billions not millions). the national debt is out of controll.

your mad because ron paul wants to abolish the irs and bring in a fair tax but you are voting for the guy that is setting us up to blow 12 more billion every year for some worthless war that cant be won? that sounds like a killer plan to dig this country out of debt..lets bow money on a war that we cant win!!! what is ron paul thinking? that stupid fair tax would bring our comanies back to the usa, creating jobs and with the fair tax everyone would pay taxes...surely that would never generate enough revenue to pull us out of this ****ty deal we have now.

as for getting rid of corporate taxes.....under the fair tax "money retained in the business and reinvested to create jobs, build factories, or develop new technologies, pays no tax." they can skip out on the taxes if they reinvest into the company thus reducing the cost handed down to you and i.

its gonna take some serious persuading to get me on the mccain boat. i never said i was voting for obama but he has a better chance that mccain in my eyes. im not gonna call you an idiot because of who you choose. its your choice..so please refrain from attacking me personally simply becuase im not your typical sheep that hits the poles.


you need to vote for McCain! I don't agree with most of his views on topics but I do know that he will let our troops finish their job overseas like they want to do. He will protect us from the radical Islam culture that wants everyone in America dead. The war should be the main topic of this election, people are going to wish Bush was still in office once we pull out of Iraq because 10,000 people will die in the next attack... not 2,000!

do they really want to stay there and finish? i have many freinds that have been there..some of them 4 times! they dont wanna go back. they want out. as for protecting us..how is john mccain going to protect anyone from ppl that are raised with the beleif that we are evil? how is he going to something that has been brain washed into every child over there? no matter who gets in the white house these religous fanatics are never going to stop. that regioun of this world has been at war with themselves for thousands of years. you are not going to stop them.

there should be no single main topic....we should all consider the war, taxes, education, and medical care. when you stop to focus on one single aspect you miss out on the other aspects that are equally important.

me and you are more similar than you think. i think that mccain has the best leadership skills of al of them. he is no doubt the best leader we could get...but his ideas on the war are that of an insane man.

like i said already im no presidential scholar but this is a no brainer...fighting for peace in the middle east is like ****ing for virginity...think about it!

[BB6dohcvtec]

hell yes the economy is a factor. But NO ****ing liberal that wants to raise taxes on corporations will help the economy. The corporate tax rate needs to be cut in half or done away with in general. That would fix the economy and give people a reason to start a business in the United States! The problem is that people are punished for being rich or having a business here that is why the economy is so ****ed up. People think that the rich CEO's of these companies are so evil, but without these guys LOTS of people would be unemployed.

lulz again. we are not talking about small business we are talking about big business. yes big business should be taxed and CEO's should be taxed the same as the common person. What because they have tons of money they should get tax breaks?? No they can have tax break its easy just donate a small percentage to cause/fund like cancer research or to a hospital or something on that nature because then that money wouldn't be taxed their income would go down and they wouldn't be taxed as much. I am all for small businesses receiving breaks for the first 5-10 years depending on the business.

[JConner]

why am i an idiot? because i form my own opinion? because i have looked over what each man/woman has to offer and i liked pauls offering the most? because i dont vote blindly? all of these candidates have flaws.....open your eyes!!!

to me paul was the man for the job...simple as that. and in my honest opinion i think mccains outlook is wrong. its my opinion.....you dont have to like it.

i voted for bush and to this day i dont feel like i made a mistake.
i think that he did a pretty damn good job considering the hand he was dealt. however, we are now in a war with religious fanatics. you cant beat these guys. they want to die. they want to kill you and kill them selves in the process. you cant beat these ppl! if we stay there is it going to save any lives? the next attack will be 10000 ppl....how many soldiers are we gonna lose in the next 10, 15, or 20 years...how much money is this country gonna spend in the next 10, 15, or 20 years? we are spending approx a billion a month right now just on the war(this was in the news..i cannot remember the exact amount but it was billions not millions). the national debt is out of controll.

your mad because ron paul wants to abolish the irs and bring in a fair tax but you are voting for the guy that is setting us up to blow 12 more billion every year for some worthless war that cant be won? that sounds like a killer plan to dig this country out of debt..lets bow money on a war that we cant win!!! what is ron paul thinking? that stupid fair tax would bring our comanies back to the usa, creating jobs and with the fair tax everyone would pay taxes...surely that would never generate enough revenue to pull us out of this ****ty deal we have now.

as for getting rid of corporate taxes.....under the fair tax "money retained in the business and reinvested to create jobs, build factories, or develop new technologies, pays no tax." they can skip out on the taxes if they reinvest into the company thus reducing the cost handed down to you and i.

its gonna take some serious persuading to get me on the mccain boat. i never said i was voting for obama but he has a better chance that mccain in my eyes. im not gonna call you an idiot because of who you choose. its your choice..so please refrain from attacking me personally simply becuase im not your typical sheep that hits the poles.



do they really want to stay there and finish? i have many freinds that have been there..some of them 4 times! they dont wanna go back. they want out. as for protecting us..how is john mccain going to protect anyone from ppl that are raised with the beleif that we are evil? how is he going to something that has been brain washed into every child over there? no matter who gets in the white house these religous fanatics are never going to stop. that regioun of this world has been at war with themselves for thousands of years. you are not going to stop them.

there should be no single main topic....we should all consider the war, taxes, education, and medical care. when you stop to focus on one single aspect you miss out on the other aspects that are equally important.

me and you are more similar than you think. i think that mccain has the best leadership skills of al of them. he is no doubt the best leader we could get...but his ideas on the war are that of an insane man.

like i said already im no presidential scholar but this is a no brainer...fighting for peace in the middle east is like ****ing for virginity...think about it!

I agree that Bush isn't getting the credit he deserves for the good job that he is doing.

I have LOTS of friends that are in Iraq right now and they are telling me the opposite of what you said your peers are telling you. My friends have said they do not want to just GIVE UP and be a failure and come home, they want to finish the job they went there for. But of course the liberal media does not share this with us.

What does it matter how much money we are spending on the war? Money should not be a factor when it comes to protecting our lives!

I am no mad at Ron Paul for wanting to abolish the IRS! I duno where you got that idea....I voted for Huckabee because of how much he supports the FAIR TAX! I think that the fair tax would get rid of all of the corruption in Washington and give power back to the people instead of politicians in Washington.

[JConner]

lulz again. we are not talking about small business we are talking about big business. yes big business should be taxed and CEO's should be taxed the same as the common person. What because they have tons of money they should get tax breaks?? No they can have tax break its easy just donate a small percentage to cause/fund like cancer research or to a hospital or something on that nature because then that money wouldn't be taxed their income would go down and they wouldn't be taxed as much. I am all for small businesses receiving breaks for the first 5-10 years depending on the business.


do you not see that LOTS of people would not have jobs without these big business EVIL CEO's? I think that the executives of the oil companies who get so much slack (and taxed excessively) for their EVIL profits should continue to make billions per year....THEY ARE BUSINESSMEN and that is capitolism!



EDIT: hell yes the CEO's and exec's should get tax breaks, they provide jobs to millions of people! Why should they have to donate some of their hard earned money to cancer research or hospitals? HAHAHAHAHAHA

My stepfather is an Executive Physician as VP of a very large nationwide private hospital. He spent YEARS in college and then more years as a doctor before moving up to an Exec position.....why should he have to give money back to the "under achievers"?

[BB6dohcvtec]

I agree that Bush isn't getting the credit he deserves for the good job that he is doing.

I have LOTS of friends that are in Iraq right now and they are telling me the opposite of what you said your peers are telling you. My friends have said they do not want to just GIVE UP and be a failure and come home, they want to finish the job they went there for. But of course the liberal media does not share this with us.

What does it matter how much money we are spending on the war? Money should not be a factor when it comes to protecting our lives!

I am no mad at Ron Paul for wanting to abolish the IRS! I duno where you got that idea....I voted for Huckabee because of how much he supports the FAIR TAX! I think that the fair tax would get rid of all of the corruption in Washington and give power back to the people instead of politicians in Washington.

Money is always a factor because it effects our already struggling economy everyday we fall more and more behind euro.

[japan4racing]

I agree that Bush isn't getting the credit he deserves for the good job that he is doing.

I have LOTS of friends that are in Iraq right now and they are telling me the opposite of what you said your peers are telling you. My friends have said they do not want to just GIVE UP and be a failure and come home, they want to finish the job they went there for. But of course the liberal media does not share this with us.

What does it matter how much money we are spending on the war? Money should not be a factor when it comes to protecting our lives!

I am no mad at Ron Paul for wanting to abolish the IRS! I duno where you got that idea....I voted for Huckabee because of how much he supports the FAIR TAX! I think that the fair tax would get rid of all of the corruption in Washington and give power back to the people instead of politicians in Washington.

you have completely lost me. why does it matter how much money we are spending on the war? becuase that money is borrowed. this country is in debt and we need financial help badly. blowing billions of dollars wont get us out of debt. sending all our manufacturers over seas for the tax breaks wont bail us out either. we need american companies back, we need useless spending to stop.

yes we need to protect ourselves. but doing it in an area that is more hazardous than any ghetto in america is not the place to do it. you are missing the part about us fighting ppl that beleive in magic. religious fanatics cant be beat. there fore we are wasting money over there. pull out let them kill each other and concentrate on protecting america. spend those bilions of dollars bringing companies and jobs back to america, spend those billions re-building our infrastructure..not those assholes in the middle east. spend those billions of dollars on anything but a new country for the religous retards that think killing yourself = bangin 70 virgins.

[BB6dohcvtec]

do you not see that LOTS of people would not have jobs without these big business EVIL CEO's? I think that the executives of the oil companies who get so much slack (and taxed excessively) for their EVIL profits should continue to make billions per year....THEY ARE BUSINESSMEN and that is capitolism!



EDIT: hell yes the CEO's and exec's should get tax breaks, they provide jobs to millions of people! Why should they have to donate some of their hard earned money to cancer research or hospitals? HAHAHAHAHAHA

My stepfather is an Executive Physician as VP of a very large nationwide private hospital. He spent YEARS in college and then more years as a doctor before moving up to an Exec position.....why should he have to give money back to the "under achievers"?


your just not getting it. if we don't tax big business how are we going to even try and make a dent on paying all the money back we took out for the war that you continue to support.

[japan4racing]

do you not see that LOTS of people would not have jobs without these big business EVIL CEO's? I think that the executives of the oil companies who get so much slack (and taxed excessively) for their EVIL profits should continue to make billions per year....THEY ARE BUSINESSMEN and that is capitolism!

and as long as they get tax breaks from packing up and moving over seas they are hurting our economy while stuffing their pockets full of money. if you can see what is happening then you are either a blind def mute, or you have been living in a cave all your life. i totally agree..if the money is there to be made then make it....but do it here in america. american is circleing the drain right no because of past legislature that allows tax breaks for having your business over seas...they get the tax break, really cheap labor and charge us more and more for the product.

[JConner]

you have completely lost me. why does it matter how much money we are spending on the war? becuase that money is borrowed. this country is in debt and we need financial help badly. blowing billions of dollars wont get us out of debt. sending all our manufacturers over seas for the tax breaks wont bail us out either. we need american companies back, we need useless spending to stop.

.


EXACTLY! We need to cut the corporate tax rate so that companies WANT to conduct business in America instead of moving overseas!!!!!!! We need to quit handing money to the poor (un-achievers) people and make drug test's mandatory for anyone that is on welfare.

[JConner]

and as long as they get tax breaks from packing up and moving over seas they are hurting our economy while stuffing their pockets full of money. if you can see what is happening then you are either a blind def mute, or you have been living in a cave all your life. i totally agree..if the money is there to be made then make it....but do it here in america. american is circleing the drain right no because of past legislature that allows tax breaks for having your business over seas...they get the tax break, really cheap labor and charge us more and more for the product.


YOU CANNOT make money in America because of the tax code! Once we go to a simpler tax system (it'll happen one day) this country will THRIVE again!

[JConner]

your just not getting it. if we don't tax big business how are we going to even try and make a dent on paying all the money back we took out for the war that you continue to support.

We do away with the tax on those big businesses, their prices fall, more people spend money, and wa-la.... we are out of debt!!!!!!! This is a simple concept that most public schooled/government educated people cannot comprehend!

[japan4racing]

EXACTLY! We need to cut the corporate tax rate so that companies WANT to conduct business in America instead of moving overseas!!!!!!! We need to quit handing money to the poor (un-achievers) people and make drug test's mandatory for anyone that is on welfare.

i couldnt agree more with you. but you are preaching to the choir.


We do away with the tax on those big businesses, their prices fall, more people spend money, and wa-la.... we are out of debt!!!!!!! This is a simple concept that most public schooled/government educated people cannot comprehend!

thats what i have been saying all along..what thread were you in? oh yea, im from public school and work for the govt....and i know some pretty damn stupid private schoolers


YOU CANNOT make money in America because of the tax code! Once we go to a simpler tax system (it'll happen one day) this country will THRIVE again!

this goes back to the fair tax thing we talked about remember that...that was back when you were less confusing to us all.

i could be totally wrong but judging by your comments here you are voting republican simply because that is the party you have always claimed and you are loyal to that party. you dont agree with all things that the democrats usually stand for. yet even though mccain stands for nothing more than the opposite of the demorats you still plan to vote for him. look man, im repblican all day...but im educated enough to not rely on loyalty to a soiled party system to sway my vote. im voting for my pocket. and if this govt goes bankrupt the airforce wont need me to work on these planes anymore! civil service jobs are hard to lose but if htey cant pay you its easy to lose the job.

its obvious both of us are very opinionated and will not be swayed. thats a good thing in a way. you gotta stand for somthing or you'll fall for anything.

[BB6dohcvtec]

but your forgetting one concept most private school trust fund babies forget....we are too far in debt now for that to work especially if you want to continue the war in Iraq. wa-la your little plan vaulters .

oh yea what college do you go to or did attend because i guarantee it was government funded in some aspect so take you little i think i know what I'm talking about because i went to private school bull**** elsewhere.

[BB6dohcvtec]

i couldnt agree more with you. but you are preaching to the choir.



thats what i have been saying all along..what thread were you in? oh yea, im from public school and work for the govt....and i know some pretty damn stupid private schoolers



this goes back to the fair tax thing we talked about remember that...that was back when you were less confusing to us all.

i could be totally wrong but judging by your comments here you are voting republican simply because that is the party you have always claimed and you are loyal to that party. you dont agree with all things that the democrats usually stand for. yet even though mccain stands for nothing more than the opposite of the demorats you still plan to vote for him. look man, im repblican all day...but im educated enough to not rely on loyalty to a soiled party system to sway my vote. im voting for my pocket. and if this govt goes bankrupt the airforce wont need me to work on these planes anymore! civil service jobs are hard to lose but if htey cant pay you its easy to lose the job.

its obvious both of us are very opinionated and will not be swayed. thats a good thing in a way. you gotta stand for somthing or you'll fall for anything.

If you think about it except for the stance on the war, McCain is not to differ than most democrats except for hillary (she is a tad extreme in her measures that she wants if elected).

[JConner]

i couldnt agree more with you. but you are preaching to the choir.



thats what i have been saying all along..what thread were you in? oh yea, im from public school and work for the govt....and i know some pretty damn stupid private schoolers



this goes back to the fair tax thing we talked about remember that...that was back when you were less confusing to us all.

i could be totally wrong but judging by your comments here you are voting republican simply because that is the party you have always claimed and you are loyal to that party. you dont agree with all things that the democrats usually stand for. yet even though mccain stands for nothing more than the opposite of the demorats you still plan to vote for him. look man, im repblican all day...but im educated enough to not rely on loyalty to a soiled party system to sway my vote. im voting for my pocket. and if this govt goes bankrupt the airforce wont need me to work on these planes anymore! civil service jobs are hard to lose but if htey cant pay you its easy to lose the job.

its obvious both of us are very opinionated and will not be swayed. thats a good thing in a way. you gotta stand for somthing or you'll fall for anything.


I am more of a libertarian than a republican. I am for less taxes, less government, etc.... but I am pro choice...........


edit:

I do dont vote for McCain because he is a republican.....he is pretty much a Liberal

[JConner]

btw......

I think that before anyone should be allowed to vote in this presidential election they should have to answer 2 questions...

1. Do you have a right to vote?

2. Is the Unidos Estudios (haha) a Democracy?

[japan4racing]

If you think about it except for the stance on the war, McCain is not to differ than most democrats except for hillary (she is a tad extreme in her measures that she wants if elected).

i can see that in some ways....what really kills me though is the 2nd ammendment stances of the candidates.....mccain has me all the way there. democrats typically hate guns for some reason.


I am more of a libertarian than a republican. I am for less taxes, less government, etc.... but I am pro choice...........

i really claim no party but i would say if you classifed me i would fall into the rep category. except i dont give 2 ****s about religioun, i dont care if you are gay and want to get married, and i dont give 2 ****s if you want an abortion.


like i said before mccain is most likely the best one that will be on the ticket..i just think his views on iraq are wreckless and may run this country all the way to the scene of the crash. just my opinion. i hope im wrong

[JConner]

but your forgetting one concept most private school trust fund babies forget....we are too far in debt now for that to work especially if you want to continue the war in Iraq. wa-la your little plan vaulters .

oh yea what college do you go to or did attend because i guarantee it was government funded in some aspect so take you little i think i know what I'm talking about because i went to private school bull**** elsewhere.


I duno if you are directing this question toward me but i'll answer it anyways...

I went to Young Harris (private & Christian) for 2 years before I partied too much and switched to where I am now in community college . And no... my education has never been funded by the government, it has been funded by my EVIL/RICH (achivers) parents :)

[The Yousef]

sticked. :)

[JConner]

i can see that in some ways....what really kills me though is the 2nd ammendment stances of the candidates.....mccain has me all the way there. democrats typically hate guns for some reason.



i really claim no party but i would say if you classifed me i would fall into the rep category. except i dont give 2 ****s about religioun, i dont care if you are gay and want to get married, and i dont give 2 ****s if you want an abortion.



hell yea! If we were allowed to carry a gun into a mall/school no one would be getting shot by these maniacs! People shoot up schools/malls because they know that no one will be carrying a gun! I couldnt give 2 ****s about organized religion either, anyone who tells their children that the Earth is only 6,000 years old is CRAZY!

[BB6dohcvtec]

I duno if you are directing this question toward me but i'll answer it anyways...

I went to Young Harris (private & Christian) for 2 years before I partied too much and switched to where I am now in community college . And no... my education has never been funded by the government, it has been funded by my EVIL/RICH (achivers) parents :)

community college= federal & state funded. sorry try again.

oh yea whoever said your parents were evil/rich judging by the way you conduct yourself you think your parents are rich, they may be comfortable but doubt their rich.

your the first person I have ever heard say they didn't finish young harris because they partied too much. oh well first for everything.

[Craigers2k]

You're right.. taxpayers already bear the burden of healthcare anyway so why should the government care? The system is SOOOOO perfect that no changes are needed, great.

When have I ever said that the current system is perfect and in need of no change?? You want all control in the hands of politicians and bureacrats in Washington, no thanks, I'd rather make the decisions that affect my life myself.


And honestly.. I don't care what you can or cannot afford.. the statement is true. People argue against a single payer system when they cannot afford healthcare, it is proven that a system like that is efficient if implemented properly.

Haha, you act like that is a bad thing! Again, not everyone feels it is ok to use the government to steal from some individuals to give to others. Not everyone wants the government to control every aspect of their lives. Whether or not they can afford someone has no bearing on the decisions they make. Freedom and liberty, however, does. Are you even listening?

[tony]

When have I ever said that the current system is perfect and in need of no change?? You want all control in the hands of politicians and bureacrats in Washington, no thanks, I'd rather make the decisions that affect my life myself.



Haha, you act like that is a bad thing! Again, not everyone feels it is ok to use the government to steal from some individuals to give to others. Not everyone wants the government to control every aspect of their lives. Whether or not they can afford someone has no bearing on the decisions they make. Freedom and liberty, however, does. Are you even listening?

lol You call the current system freedom? When a company has to be more concerned with their profit margin than your health that is freedom?

Whether its politicians or CEO's either way the people do not have the control that you desire.. at least under a universal plan everyone can afford to have health coverage rather than roll the dice.

Show me a plan that provides good coverage for ALL citizens that is affordable but completely voids the american government. Otherwise you no longer have an argument on this subject.

[Craigers2k]

lol You call the current system freedom? When a company has to be more concerned with their profit margin than your health that is freedom?

Again you missed my point. If you aren't even willing to read what I post I am done. I am not advocating we keep things the same. The government got involved with healthcare many years ago removing competition and the incentive to keep costs down. Then congress created HMO's and the trend continued... We need to end the government regulation. Look at the way I care for my dog. If he needs something, I call a few vets in the area. Who is the cheapest and what are their credential's. Service is quick, cheap, quality. I get multiple tests done and the results within minutes. I choose who I go to, when and where. ----> I <---- pay for it. Why? Because I chose to have the care done. I would NEVER FORCE anyone else to foot the bill for me. Charity? thats different.


Show me a plan that provides good coverage for ALL citizens that is affordable but completely voids the american government. Otherwise you no longer have an argument on this subject.

Since when has the plan been healthcare for all or nothing? Whatever happened to choice? Show me where in the Constitution, the Dec. of Independence, dictionary, Bible, or where ever else you can think of, show me where it says that everyone has the right to free healthcare, and if they can't afford it it will be paid by someone else. Show me where it says that.

Now, I love how you assume government run (ie. NO choice) healthcare is quality. Does month long wait times equal quality? Lets not forget the mess that the government has gotten us in with Social Security and Medicare... Take a look:

Here are some key dates we can all look forward to:
In 2007, Medicare Part A benefit payments began to exceed the program’s tax revenue. This already happened boys.

In 2011, the Medicare Part A Trust Fund begins to decline as benefits exceed payroll taxes and trust fund interest. In only 4 years, Medicare is essentially bankrupt.

In 2017, Social Security benefit payments will begin to exceed the program’s tax revenue. In about 9 years, Social Security is essentially bankrupt.

In 2019, Medicare Part A Trust Fund assets will not be enough to pay full benefits. Under current law, benefits would be reduced to 79 percent of scheduled benefits in 2019, declining to 29 percent by 2081. In 11 years, full benefits can't be paid on behalf of Medicare recipients.

In 2027, Social Security Trust Funds begin to decline as benefits exceed tax revenue and trust fund interest. More bad news.

In 2040, federal debt held by the public will exceed the historical high of 109 percent of GDP. At this point it's really ugly.

In 2041, Social Security Trust Funds’ assets will not be enough to pay full benefits. Under current law, benefits for all retirees would be reduced to 75 percent of scheduled benefits in 2041, declining to 70 percent by 2081. Say goodbye to Social Security.

In 2080, total government cost will be more than three times revenue.
This obviously can't be sustained.

You should all read the summary report:
http://www.fms.treas.gov/frsummary/frsummary2007.pdf

The government is just a model for effectiveness and qualify...:rolleyes:

Not only that, but you laugh at our current system, stating there is no freedom of choice. What will be it like when the government has contol and they decide that people can no longer smoke? That costs too much for government healthcare. Or if you are overweight... What is going to stop the government from controlling many aspects of our lives, be it eating and exercising habits in the name of keeping healthcare for everyone? Is that likely? Maybe, maybe not. I would rather not give politicians the chance.

[tony]

Again you missed my point. If you aren't even willing to read what I post I am done. I am not advocating we keep things the same. The government got involved with healthcare many years ago removing competition and the incentive to keep costs down. Then congress created HMO's and the trend continued... We need to end the government regulation. Look at the way I care for my dog. If he needs something, I call a few vets in the area. Who is the cheapest and what are their credential's. Service is quick, cheap, quality. I get multiple tests done and the results within minutes. I choose who I go to, when and where. ----> I <---- pay for it. Why? Because I chose to have the care done. I would NEVER FORCE anyone else to foot the bill for me. Charity? thats different.



Since when has the plan been healthcare for all or nothing? Whatever happened to choice? Show me where in the Constitution, the Dec. of Independence, dictionary, Bible, or where ever else you can think of, show me where it says that everyone has the right to free healthcare, and if they can't afford it it will be paid by someone else. Show me where it says that.

Now, I love how you assume government run (ie. NO choice) healthcare is quality. Does month long wait times equal quality? Lets not forget the mess that the government has gotten us in with Social Security and Medicare... Take a look:

Here are some key dates we can all look forward to:
In 2007, Medicare Part A benefit payments began to exceed the program’s tax revenue. This already happened boys.

In 2011, the Medicare Part A Trust Fund begins to decline as benefits exceed payroll taxes and trust fund interest. In only 4 years, Medicare is essentially bankrupt.

In 2017, Social Security benefit payments will begin to exceed the program’s tax revenue. In about 9 years, Social Security is essentially bankrupt.

In 2019, Medicare Part A Trust Fund assets will not be enough to pay full benefits. Under current law, benefits would be reduced to 79 percent of scheduled benefits in 2019, declining to 29 percent by 2081. In 11 years, full benefits can't be paid on behalf of Medicare recipients.

In 2027, Social Security Trust Funds begin to decline as benefits exceed tax revenue and trust fund interest. More bad news.

In 2040, federal debt held by the public will exceed the historical high of 109 percent of GDP. At this point it's really ugly.

In 2041, Social Security Trust Funds’ assets will not be enough to pay full benefits. Under current law, benefits for all retirees would be reduced to 75 percent of scheduled benefits in 2041, declining to 70 percent by 2081. Say goodbye to Social Security.

In 2080, total government cost will be more than three times revenue.
This obviously can't be sustained.

You should all read the summary report:
http://www.fms.treas.gov/frsummary/frsummary2007.pdf

The government is just a model for effectiveness and qualify...:rolleyes:

Not only that, but you laugh at our current system, stating there is no freedom of choice. What will be it like when the government has contol and they decide that people can no longer smoke? That costs too much for government healthcare. Or if you are overweight... What is going to stop the government from controlling many aspects of our lives, be it eating and exercising habits in the name of keeping healthcare for everyone? Is that likely? Maybe, maybe not. I would rather not give politicians the chance.


Again, show me a plan that covers citizens who cannot afford healthcare, and lowers cost while maintaining the quality that DOESN'T involve the government. Otherwise this back and forth is useless.

There is no right to Education

No right to Police Protection

No right to vote

But we have all of those? Not everything that makes a society thrive is a "Right".. some things just make common sense.

[BanginJimmy]

I read most of this and have a few comments to make.

1. Fair Tax is the only way to reduce govt spending as it will add more than $500B to the economy between the added amount govt spends and receives in taxes. That 500B doesnt even account for the ammout of ~33% income taxes taken from the individual combined with the 22% on business that is already added to the price you pay for products. If you listen to Neal Boortz's fair tax seminar on his website you will learn quite a bit. I will add a few more points on the fair tax.

* Fair tax will add the price of products ~$0.01 per dollar.

* Fair tax eliminates corporate taxes. This is especially helpful for small business. My wife owns her own business and has a monthy payroll of ~3k and pays 1400 a month in payroll taxes. Right now she needs another employee, but because of payroll taxes she cannot offrd it. What sends more money into the economy, 1400 to the govt or ~1600 to another employee?

* The fairtax will make the US an HUGE corporate tax haven for foreign companies. More than 90% of foreign fortune 500 corporations say they will move at least some portion, if not all of their corporation to the US to take advantage of that haven. Can anyone even begin to compute the number of high and low paying jobs that will come to the US if that happens?

I can keep going, but I imagine most people will ignore this post because of its length anyays.


Next, gun control. Gun control laws are absolutely pointless. The only popel they affect are those that own them legally. If you have an illegal gun now, are you going to turn it in if it becomes more illegal than it already is?

I'm out of time right now, but I do hope more people learn more about the fair tax. I may even create a fair tax thread tonight so we can bring that debate there.

*

[japan4racing]

I read most of this and have a few comments to make.

1. Fair Tax is the only way to reduce govt spending as it will add more than $500B to the economy between the added amount govt spends and receives in taxes. That 500B doesnt even account for the ammout of ~33% income taxes taken from the individual combined with the 22% on business that is already added to the price you pay for products. If you listen to Neal Boortz's fair tax seminar on his website you will learn quite a bit. I will add a few more points on the fair tax.

* Fair tax will add the price of products ~$0.01 per dollar.

* Fair tax eliminates corporate taxes. This is especially helpful for small business. My wife owns her own business and has a monthy payroll of ~3k and pays 1400 a month in payroll taxes. Right now she needs another employee, but because of payroll taxes she cannot offrd it. What sends more money into the economy, 1400 to the govt or ~1600 to another employee?

* The fairtax will make the US an HUGE corporate tax haven for foreign companies. More than 90% of foreign fortune 500 corporations say they will move at least some portion, if not all of their corporation to the US to take advantage of that haven. Can anyone even begin to compute the number of high and low paying jobs that will come to the US if that happens?

I can keep going, but I imagine most people will ignore this post because of its length anyays.


Next, gun control. Gun control laws are absolutely pointless. The only popel they affect are those that own them legally. If you have an illegal gun now, are you going to turn it in if it becomes more illegal than it already is?

I'm out of time right now, but I do hope more people learn more about the fair tax. I may even create a fair tax thread tonight so we can bring that debate there.

*

troof :goodjob:

[BB6dohcvtec]

troof :goodjob:

x2 :goodjob:

[One_Bad_SHO]

http://www.tshirthell.com/shirts/products/a902/a902_bm.gif

No but seriously... McCain ftw!