CTR vs BuddyClub III cams

[bigdare23]

Right now I'm only rocking a CTR intake cam, but thinking about upgrading to BuddyClub III cams. Would the gains be worth getting rid of my current intake cam and buying a whole new set of cams, or should I just keep my intake cam and purchase the CTR exhaust cam? I might add, I don't plan on revving my car past my stock red-line now (I hear BCIII cams stop making power around 8k-8.5k anyways). I also don't plan on upgrading my valvetrain just yet. I might add, BuddyClub suggests you can run that cam with the stock valvetrain also.


{I want opinions from people that have used these cams or have experience :goodjob: } Thanks for your help!

[Grimm Reeper]

Well Darryl from experience please make sure you don't have CTR Pistons :lmfao: the decks are too high and the cams push those valves really low to the fact that they touch a little if not a lot at high RPM's

[bigdare23]

Well Darryl from experience please make sure you don't have CTR Pistons :lmfao: the decks are too high and the cams push those valves really low to the fact that they touch a little if not a lot at high RPM's

what head gasket were you using?

[Grimm Reeper]

B16

[bigdare23]

B16


oem???

[Grimm Reeper]

oem???
yea

[dc2teg2006]

here is the cam spec for both buddy club and ctr:

Buddy Club Spec III Int- 11.59mm 304
Exh- 10.71mm 294

Buddy Club spec IV Int- 12.3mm 306
Exh- 11.8mm 302

Buddy Club spec V Int- 12.8mm 312
Exh- 11.8mm 306


CTR
Civic Type-R And Integra Type-R(Integra Type R 2000/01 Spec)
Int-243 dur. / 11.5mm lift
Exh-235 dur. / 10.5mm lift
Valve Springs to be used: Stock B16A/GSR if using stock 8200 re-limit. Integra Type-R if using rev limit over 8200rpms. Mugen Valve Springs can also be used.
Description: These are great, reliable cams for the money. You can pick up a set for as little as $550.00 new if you are lucky! They will give good gains from midrange all the way until 8400rpms. These cams have stock idle characteristics.

[IntegraXTR]

I wouldn't waste any time buying the CTR exhaust cam, its the same damn thing as stock b16/b18c.

Second, BC Spec 3+ make a GOB of power on top end, do a little research on honda tech and there are plenty of dyno graphs on BC.

[bigdare23]

here is the cam spec for both buddy club and ctr:

Buddy Club Spec III Int- 11.59mm 304
Exh- 10.71mm 294

Buddy Club spec IV Int- 12.3mm 306
Exh- 11.8mm 302

Buddy Club spec V Int- 12.8mm 312
Exh- 11.8mm 306


CTR
Civic Type-R And Integra Type-R(Integra Type R 2000/01 Spec)
Int-243 dur. / 11.5mm lift
Exh-235 dur. / 10.5mm lift
Valve Springs to be used: Stock B16A/GSR if using stock 8200 re-limit. Integra Type-R if using rev limit over 8200rpms. Mugen Valve Springs can also be used.
Description: These are great, reliable cams for the money. You can pick up a set for as little as $550.00 new if you are lucky! They will give good gains from midrange all the way until 8400rpms. These cams have stock idle characteristics.


I know the specs homie, my question is the net gain worth getting rid of the ctr cams.

[bigdare23]

I wouldn't waste any time buying the CTR exhaust cam, its the same damn thing as stock b16/b18c.

Second, BC Spec 3+ make a GOB of power on top end, do a little research on honda tech and there are plenty of dyno graphs on BC.


:thinking:

CTR cams are different than all other b-series cams (besides the 2nd gen ITR cams)

:thinking:
Spec 3+ are know for low to mid range power. Most of the time they top out around 8200-8500rpms? Where are you getting your facts from? :thinking:

[IntegraXTR]

:thinking:

CTR cams are different than all other b-series cams (besides the 2nd gen ITR cams)

:thinking:
Spec 3+ are know for low to mid range power. Most of the time they top out around 8200-8500rpms? Where are you getting your facts from? :thinking:

CTR/01 ITR Intake cams are different from other b-series, exhaust cam is damn near identical to stock b18c/1. But then again I could be wrong.

You're right, I was thinking of the spec IV's. But here's just some of the info...

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=795645o <<small dyno graph inside, scroll down.



And this should answer your question about this thread...well for the most part
http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1384329

[bigdare23]

CTR/01 ITR Intake cams are different from other b-series, exhaust cam is damn near identical to stock b18c/1. But then again I could be wrong.

You're right, I was thinking of the spec IV's. But here's just some of the info...

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=795645o <<small dyno graph inside, scroll down.



And this should answer your question about this thread...well for the most part
http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1384329


reps to ya :goodjob:

[loneSTAR]

running bc3's with stock compression won't really give you what you want... probably actually lower compression and hinder performance...

[BABY J]

Is there a reason you want Buddy Club? They are not on my radar as far as even the top 5 grinds for N/A power.

[GSRteg®]

Well Darryl from experience please make sure you don't have CTR Pistons :lmfao: the decks are too high and the cams push those valves really low to the fact that they touch a little if not a lot at high RPM's

Tony knows

[bigdare23]

Is there a reason you want Buddy Club? They are not on my radar as far as even the top 5 grinds for N/A power.


I was just looking for a cam that you can run with your stock valvetrain.

[BABY J]

HONESTLY - is there a complete build in ur future? If so hold off on such an expensive bumpstick. I'd lay a bottle on it to hold you off until u can bump compression homey.

[bigdare23]

HONESTLY - is there a complete build in ur future? If so hold off on such an expensive bumpstick. I'd lay a bottle on it to hold you off until u can bump compression homey.


Yeah but.............. I'll give you the details later.

[Vteckidd]

Tony knows
Apparently not.

CTR Pistons in a B16 are NO WHERE NEAR CLOSE to having any kind of contact with BC3s.

Look at JBHondatech on here, he runs PRO1s (WAY BIGGER THAN BC) with CTR Pistons an makes almost 200whp.

The DOME is not what causes contact, its the VALVE RELIEFS.

you can have a piston that looks like this:

http://www.importbuilders.com/pictures/pistons/rsxpistons.jpg

But you can run any cam you want because it has DEEP VALVE RELIEFS

For stock Valvetrain, Skunk2 Stage 1s or BC3+s are the cams i would run. Ive seen great numbers from both, and i have owned S2S1s in my B16.

The CTR Exhaust cam is a waste of money, itll cost you almost as much as a pair of BC3s for 1 cam from honda. DOnt buy used either, or you wont be sure what your getting as there are alot of scams with the CTR/ITR cams right now.

If you need BC3s let me know, im a dealer and can get you a good deal.

[BABY J]

I'd run S2 > BC (buddy club, not crower)

[Vteckidd]

I would too. But BC has made some good numbers

[Acet]

Sup?
(http://www.astrocore.com/MultiStat.zip)

[bigdare23]

Thanks Mike, I'll let you know!

[crhatchzc]

mr kid this is for you im working on this build lsvtec with itr pistons and buddy club III+ cams will these cams be good for that type of build

[Grimm Reeper]

Apparently not.

CTR Pistons in a B16 are NO WHERE NEAR CLOSE to having any kind of contact with BC3s.

Look at JBHondatech on here, he runs PRO1s (WAY BIGGER THAN BC) with CTR Pistons an makes almost 200whp.

The DOME is not what causes contact, its the VALVE RELIEFS.

you can have a piston that looks like this:

http://www.importbuilders.com/pictures/pistons/rsxpistons.jpg

But you can run any cam you want because it has DEEP VALVE RELIEFS

For stock Valvetrain, Skunk2 Stage 1s or BC3+s are the cams i would run. Ive seen great numbers from both, and i have owned S2S1s in my B16.

The CTR Exhaust cam is a waste of money, itll cost you almost as much as a pair of BC3s for 1 cam from honda. DOnt buy used either, or you wont be sure what your getting as there are alot of scams with the CTR/ITR cams right now.

If you need BC3s let me know, im a dealer and can get you a good deal.

He's only saying that I know because I had a built B16 Head with a Ferrea Valve train with the exception of the JG valve springs and retainers. I was running that with CTR Pistons .25 over sized with the BC3. I adjusted the clearance between the cams and valves myself: setting Intake at .007 and Exhaust at .008. with an oem head gasket. My car was un-tuned and ran fine for days with minor issues dealing with the ecu, but was driving it hard one day and 2 of my intake valves had dropped and shattered 1 of my CTR pistons causing a chain-reaction which caused it to............ ummm well you know the rest. Of course the valves were put in by the machine shop I've been going to and had no problems. So with my past situation told, what do you believed caused my valves to drop?

I only know for the sake that it happened to me :(

[Vteckidd]

I adjusted the clearance between the cams and valves myself: setting Intake at .007 and Exhaust at .008. with an oem head gasket.
You did a valve adjustment, thats not setting clearances. Not ones that matter.

Degreeing a cam in is not the same as doing a valve adjustment. at those numbers there is no way you had contact. THere is no way BC3s hit CTR pistons with an OEM spec valve adjustment.

WHat were your cam gear settings? you could go +/-3 an have no contact on that setup





My car was un-tuned and ran fine for days with minor issues dealing with the ecu, but was driving it hard one day and 2 of my intake valves had dropped and shattered 1 of my CTR pistons

Sure it didnt detonate and torch a valve? sounds like it to me. ECU issues, 11.5:1 compression, untuned, revving it out :umno:

Sure your timing belt didnt jump? who set the tension?

You sure you didnt pull a guide through? have you looked at the guides in the head?

break a keeper? break a retainer?

From my personal experience BC3+s are not that aggressive, you should have had contact unless the head was milled way out of spec

[Grimm Reeper]

You did a valve adjustment, thats not setting clearances. Not ones that matter.

Excuse my previous statement. With a filler gauge I was able to measure how much space there was between my cam and the rocker arm (once again excuse what I stated before) and then adjusted with the stated numbers. The head was taken completely apart when I had got it back from someone on IA and know that those are not stock cams some adjustments where needed, just like it says on the BC website of what the desired clearance between the rocker and the cam, but always take it down 1 so originally Ex was .009 but since everything was new and everyone knows that when metal heats up it what....... expands until it reached its limit (or something like that :blah: ) so if it to far and at one time it was you'll hear a lil knocking noise from the head and of course you'll already be able to diagnose the problem just by the way it sounds.



Degreeing a cam in is not the same as doing a valve adjustment. at those numbers there is no way you had contact. THere is no way BC3s hit CTR pistons with an OEM spec valve adjustment.

Didn't recall me stating that I changed the degree in the cam because I couldn't it was stock SI cam gears, I had adjustable cams on before that, but then took it off, but that was months ahead of that.



WHat were your cam gear settings? you could go +/-3 an have no contact on that setup

Nothing, Stock Cam gears





Sure it didnt detonate and torch a valve? sounds like it to me. ECU issues, 11.5:1 compression, untuned, revving it out :umno:

I believe that my compression was a bit higher than that like at a mid or high 12's and revvs where meaning I took it to 8.5 if not 9 rpms.


Sure your timing belt didnt jump? who set the tension?
yea it didn't jump after I had put the belt on to make sure that it had not to much slack between the intake cam gear and the water pump, I have and neighbor who's a honda-tech and asked if he could check behind me for reassurance.


You sure you didnt pull a guide through? have you looked at the guides in the head?

Yep when I pulled the head out to see if it was able to be machined (I'll post pics) it did not pull a guide through it only cracked one of the guides, but they are still in place


break a keeper? break a retainer?

nope and nope all of that was still somewhat intact. When my car turned off as I was driving besides the noise I heard, I knew that it wasn't good. So on site of the accident one of my squad friends had a tool box in the back of his car which came in handy. I imediately pulled off my vavle cover to feel the rockers checking to see if I bent or dropped a valve and of course you know that you can check like that because there will be soo much play between the rocker and the cam that it wouldn't make sense and I was sad to figure out that when I came around and felt #2 I was able to move the rockers freely up and down


From my personal experience BC3+s are not that aggressive, you should have had contact unless the head was milled way out of spec

:ninja: ok pics are below



http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee223/JDM_EK4/Photo-0207-1.jpg http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee223/JDM_EK4/Photo-0208-1.jpg
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee223/JDM_EK4/Photo-0209-1.jpg http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee223/JDM_EK4/Photo-0211-1.jpg

I thought it was 2 intakes but now as you can see it's 1 intake and after I kept moving my head around the piece of valve on the exhaust broke off lol, but there it is. I'm pretty sure it did more damage before I came to the conclusion that my compression was lost due to the valves and tired to crank it back up 2 more times just to make sure it wasn't anything else adding to the situation.

[jbhondatech]

I am interested to know what steps were taken to achieve mid to high 12:0 compression? please correct me if I am wrong but I see CTR pistons and dished valves. Which on a standard head mill should only achieve 11.5 to 11.7. I run CTR pistons and high compression valves and I am at 11.9 to 12.0