H22a Head on Jdm F22b Dohc??

[G.C]

hey i want to Vtec my Non Vtec Dohc F22b. Few people told me to do a Complete H Swap cause it will cost as much as putting the H22a head on my engine. I really dont understand why it will cost as much as doing a Complete H Swap. What do you guys think?? and If i do get a H22a engine can i keep my stock tranny? which i think is a h23 tranny.?? thanks.

this is my engine:
F22B

This engine was used in the 1992-1996 Honda Prelude (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Prelude) Si in Japan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan). It is similar to the H23A (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_H_engine),.

Specifications




Bore × Stroke: 85.0 × 95.0 mm
Displacement: 2156 cc
Valve Configuration: DOHC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOHC), 16 valves
Compression ratio: 9.3:1
Max power: 160 hp (119 kW) @ 6000 rpm
Max torque: 148 ft·lbf (200 N m) @ 5000 rpm
Red Line: 7000rpm


This is H23 Engine:

H23A1



The H23A1 was an increased-stroke, non-VTEC version of the H22a, designed for the North American (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_America) market version of the 1992–1996 Honda Prelude (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Prelude) Si. It shared the same Fiber Reinforced Metal (FRM) cylinder wall liners with the H22a.



Specifications
Bore x Stroke: 87.0 x 95.0 mm
Displacement: 2258 cc (138 cu. in.)
Valve Configuration: DOHC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOHC), 16 valves
Type: In-line 4 cylinder, aluminum block and head
Compression ratio: 9.8:1
Max power: 160 hp (119 kW)
Max torque: 163ft·lbf (207 Nm)
Redline: 6500 rpm
Engine Control System: Honda Systems PGM-FI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PGM-FI) with port fuel injection
Valve Gear: belt-driven dual overhead cams, 4 valves per cylinder

[allmotoronly]

the reason it costs so much is because a show will charge you a lot to do it. Its not really something that someone with not a lot of mechanical background could easily do. You have to drill part of the block out for the oil passage to the VTEC solenoid on the head. Also, the F22B was not made to handle the higher RPM that the H22A head was designed to run. The H22A makes good top end power. The F22B will not turn 8k rpm reliably enough to be worth it. Also, the F22B has lower compression ratio, so you will not make as much power as the H22A unless you get higher compression pistons, and by that point, it really would have been a better idea to just go ahead and do the whole H22A swap. The H series engines also have a larger crankshaft main journal diameter, which means the bearing has more surface area to carry the load and dissipate heat. Thats part of the reason that the H22A can reliably turn higher RPM.

Yes your transmission will bolt up.

[.blank cd]

just keep the F and mod it, or swap a whole H23 and mod that

[b16ftw]

that seems like a lot of hassle to make your f22 vtec.. i would just get an h22 because the h23 tranny will bolt right up anyway.

[G.C]

dam this sucks. i really dont know what my tranny is. any1 know a way u can tell ?? and thx allmotoronly. your a really smart person. helped me out alot thx. im pretty sure i have a h23 but who knows i might have a f22b tranny. will that still work out for h22?

[allmotoronly]

yes

[G.C]

reps to you allmotor

[magneto198]

he's right, do the swap

[allmotoronly]

have you considered a jdm F20B DOHC VTEC? Its very similar to a H22A, but is 2.0L. Honda designed it to race in the sub 2.0L class races that are popular in europe and asia. Think destroked H22A, because thats what it is.
heres some info on wikipedia. you can get one of these engines complete with engine, tranny, and ecu for about $1800. It has all the positive aspects of the H22A without any of the negative aspects (such as FRM sleeves). It makes 200hp like the H22A. Its a pretty cool engine that is often overlooked since it has never came stock in a US model honda.

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dam this sucks. i really dont know what my tranny is. any1 know a way u can tell ?? and thx allmotoronly. your a really smart person. helped me out alot thx. im pretty sure i have a h23 but who knows i might have a f22b tranny. will that still work out for h22?
theres a code on the side of the transmission, probably w/ a barcode next to or underneath it

[.blank cd]

have you considered a jdm F20B DOHC VTEC? Its very similar to a H22A, but is 2.0L. Honda designed it to race in the sub 2.0L class races that are popular in europe and asia. Think destroked H22A, because thats what it is.
heres some info on wikipedia. you can get one of these engines complete with engine, tranny, and ecu for about $1800. It has all the positive aspects of the H22A without any of the negative aspects (such as FRM sleeves). It makes 200hp like the H22A. Its a pretty cool engine that is often overlooked since it has never came stock in a US model honda.
F20B is full of win!

[allmotoronly]

F20B is full of win!

yea, and for a little extra $$$ you could do a few conservative mods (Euro R intake manifold, intake, header, exhaust, tune) and you could put down some good reliable power.

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yea, and for a little extra $$$ you could do a few conservative mods (Euro R intake manifold, intake, header, exhaust, tune) and you could put down some good reliable power.Since you're all into these H and F motors, why dont you trade cars w/ me?!

[allmotoronly]

Since you're all into these H and F motors, why dont you trade cars w/ me?!

lolol sorry cant do it. I'm in the market for something bigger!

[Barefoot]

waste of time and money. pick 1 motor or the other.

[G.C]

i heard f20b has less torque than h22 tho. can i still use my tranny on that engine too??

[.blank cd]

Yes, but use the tranny it comes with its better. Less torque than the H22, but its cheaper than the H22, and its more torque than your F22B, plus it also has iron sleeves, which means yay for boost!!!

[allmotoronly]

Yes, but use the tranny it comes with its better. Less torque than the H22, but its cheaper than the H22, and its more torque than your F22B, plus it also has iron sleeves, which means yay for boost!!!

correct! :goodjob:

[Ludester]

allmotor always suggesting the f20b. lol. yeah it makes less torque but it still makes a great 147ft/tq for a 2 liter. revs really high too.

but on a side note. I'd like to see someone do what the original poster wanted to do. but done in a way that it would be comparable to a h22 or h23vtec and see how much it cost. I bet the money spent will not be worth it but I still would like to know a rough estimate.

[EmminoDaGreat]

I have an h22 w/ 89k on it, an h23 with 100k ish if your looking to get one.

Also just fyi i did a euro r swap into a prelude the other day and it only put down 175 and 138 . (tuned)

Another guy came in with an H23 vtec (blue top) and it made about the same power.

[allmotoronly]

I have an h22 w/ 89k on it, an h23 with 100k ish if your looking to get one.

Also just fyi i did a euro r swap into a prelude the other day and it only put down 175 and 138 . (tuned)

Another guy came in with an H23 vtec (blue top) and it made about the same power.


hmm thats odd. What model euro R engine was it? there were a few different ones. Most people think of the H22A red top euro R. If thats what you dyno'ed and it only put down 175hp, thats odd. I had a jdm type S swap, which is almost the same as the euro R, except for the IM, and it made much more than that untuned. I have heard of stock USDM H22A's making that much WHP stock....

I hope the guy who bought that engine didn't get ripped off. I have heard of cases where people would buy JDM H22A's that they thought were type S engines, but turned out to be just a base level H22A with a type S valve cover.

[Ludester]

I have an h22 w/ 89k on it, an h23 with 100k ish if your looking to get one.

Also just fyi i did a euro r swap into a prelude the other day and it only put down 175 and 138 . (tuned)

Another guy came in with an H23 vtec (blue top) and it made about the same power.


175ish sounds right for the blue top but 175 for a euro r is WAY of. that seems like numbers for the 96 prelude sir that came with a red top that everybody things is a euro r. that 1996 sir prelude came with 205hp so 175whp is believable. euro r, type s, and sir spec s engines dyno 190 with no tuning or bolt ons all day long as long as people keep the injectors and run a ecu that reads the 11:1 cr.

I think what I'm trying to ask you is are u sure it was a euro r? and I'm not being rude, mean or anything because 175 would be a first for a euro r.

second when you did the swap did you have any problems hooking up the idle air control valve? if not its not a euro r.

next how did you run the fuel line? if no type of fabrications was done to either run an after market fuel rail and/or extend the fuel line to make work then its not a euro r.

get back at me and let me know man cause it would be sweat for me to run a euro r with my type s with euro r tranny.

[Ludester]

hmm thats odd. What model euro R engine was it? there were a few different ones. Most people think of the H22A red top euro R. If thats what you dyno'ed and it only put down 175hp, thats odd. I had a jdm type S swap, which is almost the same as the euro R, except for the IM, and it made much more than that untuned. I have heard of stock USDM H22A's making that much WHP stock....

I hope the guy who bought that engine didn't get ripped off. I have heard of cases where people would buy JDM H22A's that they thought were type S engines, but turned out to be just a base level H22A with a type S valve cover.

my thoughts exactly. 175 for the bluetop h23 is right on knowing that that engine makes 197hp and 167ft/tq. no matter what year euro r it is. whether its the one that makes 212hp or 217 or 220 175 is still low. I hope that person didn't spend more that 2 grand on that engine.

[EmminoDaGreat]

175ish sounds right for the blue top but 175 for a euro r is WAY of. that seems like numbers for the 96 prelude sir that came with a red top that everybody things is a euro r. that 1996 sir prelude came with 205hp so 175whp is believable. euro r, type s, and sir spec s engines dyno 190 with no tuning or bolt ons all day long as long as people keep the injectors and run a ecu that reads the 11:1 cr.

I think what I'm trying to ask you is are u sure it was a euro r? and I'm not being rude, mean or anything because 175 would be a first for a euro r.

second when you did the swap did you have any problems hooking up the idle air control valve? if not its not a euro r.

next how did you run the fuel line? if no type of fabrications was done to either run an after market fuel rail and/or extend the fuel line to make work then its not a euro r.

get back at me and let me know man cause it would be sweat for me to run a euro r with my type s with euro r tranny.

it was a red top, euro r out of an accord, he had the euro intake manifold, with egr block off plates made, also made the injector bungs alil bigger to fit diff injectors, made an adapter plate for the iacv to use one. There were absolutley no problems with this swap, i had to rewire things like cyp,tdc because they were not on the crank.

H22's are very random i have seen some with cams make close to 200 and some make 130's stock. i have done 6 or so h swaps in the last two months and none of them have made crazy power this one in fact made the most.

he purchased the motor from h motors online.

i have the euro r crank pulley if anyone is interested it is a single pulley just for ac/alt.

also i used an aftermarket fuel rail which was modified to fit the euro r intake and made the fuel line the same as stock.

also the motor came w/ the t2w4 tranny which is the euro r. so unless h motors did some shady **** then it was a euro r.

[allmotoronly]

it was a red top, euro r out of an accord, he had the euro intake manifold, with egr block off plates made, also made the injector bungs alil bigger to fit diff injectors, made an adapter plate for the iacv to use one. There were absolutley no problems with this swap, i had to rewire things like cyp,tdc because they were not on the crank.

H22's are very random i have seen some with cams make close to 200 and some make 130's stock. i have done 6 or so h swaps in the last two months and none of them have made crazy power this one in fact made the most.

he purchased the motor from h motors online.

i have the euro r crank pulley if anyone is interested it is a single pulley just for ac/alt.

also i used an aftermarket fuel rail which was modified to fit the euro r intake and made the fuel line the same as stock.

also the motor came w/ the t2w4 tranny which is the euro r. so unless h motors did some shady **** then it was a euro r.

the only way a euro R engine would make that little power would be if it was ragged the **** out. Check the compression on the cylinders. There has to be a problem somewhere. its about 15-20whp short of where it should be.

[EmminoDaGreat]

you can argue that it wasn't all you want but it was. dynos don't lie. maybe it was hurting. but who knows it runs and drives fine

[allmotoronly]

you can argue that it wasn't all you want but it was. dynos don't lie. maybe it was hurting. but who knows it runs and drives fine

I'm not saying it wasnt a euro R engine, I'm just saying the numbers dont line up. My first H22A was a USDM H22A with I/H/E and it made 171whp with 85k miles on it. I'm just saying its hard to believe.

[Ludester]

james its a euro r but there power missing. he bored the injector holes which means he is not running the 330cc euro r injectors. is he running the 290cc saturated usdm injectors? is his car still obdII? just trying to find his missing ponies regardless if he is a prick or not I feel bad for him lol.

the reason why the numbers are so random is because people cheap out a lot of times. they don't spend the money and get what the H really needs.

[EmminoDaGreat]

he got some 380s I think looked to be an injector out of an s2k or a k series . I agree it lacked power I was disappointed for him. I dunno what's up with it. also had a h22a on sat put down 130 ;(

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he got some 380s I think looked to be an injector out of an s2k or a k series . I agree it lacked power I was disappointed for him. I dunno what's up with it. also had a h22a on sat put down 130 :(
You think there would HAVE to be something wrong with that motor, maybe ECU or somethin like that.

[EmminoDaGreat]

no because we tuned it, motor issues

[IndianStig]

Yes, but use the tranny it comes with its better. Less torque than the H22, but its cheaper than the H22, and its more torque than your F22B, plus it also has iron sleeves, which means yay for boost!!!


exactly, i got an offer to buy my motor today, im thinking about dropping an f20b and then boosting in my lude after this h22, if i sell :bannana: :bannana:

[.blank cd]

exactly, i got an offer to buy my motor today, im thinking about dropping an f20b and then boosting in my lude after this h22, if i sell :bannana: :bannana: Whatever happend to me buying your car, ho?

[HatchHero]

allmotor is rite! f22 aint made to handle 8k at all!! either get the h22 motor only and slap the m2s4(h23 tranny) on it, or build the f22b! you can use high comp pistons in that block! its going to be hard to find parts for f20b. what kind of car do you have

[allmotoronly]

allmotor is rite! f22 aint made to handle 8k at all!! either get the h22 motor only and slap the m2s4(h23 tranny) on it, or build the f22b! you can use high comp pistons in that block! its going to be hard to find parts for f20b. what kind of car do you have


building a F20B would be just as easy as the F22B..... neither one were avaliable in the US. Finding parts for one will be no harder than finding parts for the other.

[HatchHero]

just get a h