Vteckidd
10-29-2007, 07:05 PM
Not sure why this has not been posted yet, but i thought all you honda heads better be on the lookout for this.
A big player in the Honda Tuner(Hondata) world has decided to sue the founder of the PGMFI.ORG (Honda DIY) website. This website is the birth place of many programs such as Crome Pro, Bre, FreeLog, ECUControl and many more. The founder of the website needs assistance with legal fees and an attorney. Please follow the link for more information.
Hopefully you are reading this because you are a user of Uberdata, Crome, Neptune or eCtune.
Without pgmfi.org's existence, none of these packages would have been around to benefit the Honda community. Without the competition, Hondata and AEM probably would not have come down to their current prices. The explosion of forced induction gear (as is evidenced by the explosive growth of this forum) was made possible by quality, cheap engine management solutions. Look at the VW community for an example of a group crippled by the lack of tools available to tune their cars. Point being: many people have benefited, from the 1000s of people slinging Crome tunes to the people selling "cheap" turbo parts that people can afford because they don't have to buy a $1500 standalone and a $1000 tune to do it right.
I am now in quite a bad spot as a result of being the owner and moderator of PGMFI.
You may or may not have heard about a matter dating to May of 2006.
Someone posted a "k-pro downloader" on the pgmfi forum. The software supposedly allowed someone to download the internal ROM from a K series ECU that had a Hondata K Pro installed.
I didn't remove the software as quickly as Hondata desired due to exams and being busy as hell with things other than my web forum.
Cease and desists, letters back and forth, demands and counterdemands, etc. (If you're curious about the demands made and whatnot, email me. It was shocking.)
And then (10/23/07) I get a proper lawsuit on my back step. Not quite proper service, but I get the point.
You can read it here: http://forum.pgmfi.org/download.php?id=6231 or here: http://forum.pgmfi.org/viewtopic.php?t=11755
I'm kind of wondering what the hell Hondata are trying to accomplish.
They seem to forget that I have been one of their strongest advocates, encouraging people NOT to go reverse engineering their software. I would think that losing my good will would be much more harmful than anything else they would be able to get through the legal process.
I no longer own PGMFI.org (Vladimir Ivanov purchased it last year) so my ability to affect policy and decisions is limited.
I hope they don't think I have any money for them to have... lol.
Oh well.
If anyone thinks they can help or knows of a good IP / internet attorney in LA, let me know. If you have a friend who thinks they can help, show this to them - there is nothing here that isn't public record.
I'm more or less broke from trying to get my business off the ground and caring for my family, so it looks like I'll be using the credit cards to pay for my defense. If you feel like contributing to the legal defense, you can send paypal to [email protected] - Vladimir has already said that he would use some of PGMFI's paypal funds to help out, if needed. Please don't send a lot of money - if everyone that has received some benefit from the site would send just a dollar, I would be set for lawyers. I know that isn't going to the happen, so please send what you can and spread the word.
Peace
-Dave Blundell
blundar at gmail dot com
This is America and competition is good for the market place.
I agree that without PGMFI.org we would all be running FMUs on our Turbo Cars or shelling out big bucks for the Hondatas and the AEM systems.
I dont know if anyone else has brought this up, but we are talking about theft of intellectual property in the form of a ECU Code. A code that was originally written by HONDA engineers and programmers, NOT HONDATA. Hondata modified the code and repackaged it an sold it (in the form of "chipped ECUs" or boards in the instance of KPRO).
SO someone ELSE posts a link to KPRO on a website, and they sue the owner? i mean its definetly plausible, they have the right to do it. Its like posting the link to a copyrighted song on a web board. Will the artist sue you? not likely, can they, sure absolutely.
In this case they should go after the guy that posted the link, not the owner of a site that cant be expected to babysit every post and every thread IMO.
Furthermore, all this is doing is making Hondata look bad. They have a great system, great interface, great tech support (sometimes) and i think they can exist with the freeware people just fine.
What do i know..........
Donate if you can. even $1 helps.
A big player in the Honda Tuner(Hondata) world has decided to sue the founder of the PGMFI.ORG (Honda DIY) website. This website is the birth place of many programs such as Crome Pro, Bre, FreeLog, ECUControl and many more. The founder of the website needs assistance with legal fees and an attorney. Please follow the link for more information.
Hopefully you are reading this because you are a user of Uberdata, Crome, Neptune or eCtune.
Without pgmfi.org's existence, none of these packages would have been around to benefit the Honda community. Without the competition, Hondata and AEM probably would not have come down to their current prices. The explosion of forced induction gear (as is evidenced by the explosive growth of this forum) was made possible by quality, cheap engine management solutions. Look at the VW community for an example of a group crippled by the lack of tools available to tune their cars. Point being: many people have benefited, from the 1000s of people slinging Crome tunes to the people selling "cheap" turbo parts that people can afford because they don't have to buy a $1500 standalone and a $1000 tune to do it right.
I am now in quite a bad spot as a result of being the owner and moderator of PGMFI.
You may or may not have heard about a matter dating to May of 2006.
Someone posted a "k-pro downloader" on the pgmfi forum. The software supposedly allowed someone to download the internal ROM from a K series ECU that had a Hondata K Pro installed.
I didn't remove the software as quickly as Hondata desired due to exams and being busy as hell with things other than my web forum.
Cease and desists, letters back and forth, demands and counterdemands, etc. (If you're curious about the demands made and whatnot, email me. It was shocking.)
And then (10/23/07) I get a proper lawsuit on my back step. Not quite proper service, but I get the point.
You can read it here: http://forum.pgmfi.org/download.php?id=6231 or here: http://forum.pgmfi.org/viewtopic.php?t=11755
I'm kind of wondering what the hell Hondata are trying to accomplish.
They seem to forget that I have been one of their strongest advocates, encouraging people NOT to go reverse engineering their software. I would think that losing my good will would be much more harmful than anything else they would be able to get through the legal process.
I no longer own PGMFI.org (Vladimir Ivanov purchased it last year) so my ability to affect policy and decisions is limited.
I hope they don't think I have any money for them to have... lol.
Oh well.
If anyone thinks they can help or knows of a good IP / internet attorney in LA, let me know. If you have a friend who thinks they can help, show this to them - there is nothing here that isn't public record.
I'm more or less broke from trying to get my business off the ground and caring for my family, so it looks like I'll be using the credit cards to pay for my defense. If you feel like contributing to the legal defense, you can send paypal to [email protected] - Vladimir has already said that he would use some of PGMFI's paypal funds to help out, if needed. Please don't send a lot of money - if everyone that has received some benefit from the site would send just a dollar, I would be set for lawyers. I know that isn't going to the happen, so please send what you can and spread the word.
Peace
-Dave Blundell
blundar at gmail dot com
This is America and competition is good for the market place.
I agree that without PGMFI.org we would all be running FMUs on our Turbo Cars or shelling out big bucks for the Hondatas and the AEM systems.
I dont know if anyone else has brought this up, but we are talking about theft of intellectual property in the form of a ECU Code. A code that was originally written by HONDA engineers and programmers, NOT HONDATA. Hondata modified the code and repackaged it an sold it (in the form of "chipped ECUs" or boards in the instance of KPRO).
SO someone ELSE posts a link to KPRO on a website, and they sue the owner? i mean its definetly plausible, they have the right to do it. Its like posting the link to a copyrighted song on a web board. Will the artist sue you? not likely, can they, sure absolutely.
In this case they should go after the guy that posted the link, not the owner of a site that cant be expected to babysit every post and every thread IMO.
Furthermore, all this is doing is making Hondata look bad. They have a great system, great interface, great tech support (sometimes) and i think they can exist with the freeware people just fine.
What do i know..........
Donate if you can. even $1 helps.