Did 2001 Mark the death of the Tuner Civic?

[Kevykev]

Back in 2000 several members on another forum including myself came to the conclusion that the Honda Civic would no longer be the ideal platform for 'Tuners' guys to build on.



Discuss?


p.s

i hate using the word 'tuners' :blah:

[bigdare23]

dont you see all these egs running around................................i believe you're wrong

[speedminded]

dont you see all these egs running around................................i believe you're wrongThe last time I checked EG's were made way before 2000 ;) He's talking about when the EP3/DC5 platform began to make its presence, not saying it was the end of the civic and tuning world because they can be made to be clean & competitive but most would rather take the older, lighter, cheaper, & easily modded versions scrapping the B's and D's and putting the later versions K-series in them :goodjob:

[bigdare23]

The last time I checked EG's were made way before 2000 ;) He's talking about when the EP3/DC5 platform began to make its presence, not saying it was the end of the civic and tuning world because they can be made to be competitive but most would rather take the older, lighter, cheaper, & easily modded versions scrapping the B's and D's and putting the later versions K-series in them :goodjob:


Oh I took it as after 2000 ................. whatever my "b"



Since you put it like that, the newer civics have died off the "scene". I dont really know why. Everyone complained about the the EF3, but compared to a 92-95 Si or 99-00 Si, stock for stock it was better. As for the other models, downhill they went.....

[Kevykev]

The last time I checked EG's were made way before 2000 ;) He's talking about when the EP3/DC5 platform began to make its presence, not saying it was the end of the civic and tuning world because they can be made to be clean & competitive but most would rather take the older, lighter, cheaper, & easily modded versions scrapping the B's and D's and putting the later versions K-series in them :goodjob:


thanks!


I'm specifically referring to the platform!


Bigdare- LOL @ 'My B' I don't here that too often anymore. :no:


99-00 Si's have always had my interest but realistically -I will never own one as a primary vehicle.

[bigdare23]

thanks!


I'm specifically referring to the platform!


Bigdare- LOL @ 'My B' I don't here that too often anymore. :no:


99-00 Si's have always had my interest but realistically -I will never own one as a primary vehicle.

gotta be able to admit wrong :goodjob:

[ash7]

this is too true :)

Thus the reason SCC magazine called the "EG" civic the #1 "tuner" call of all time.

For ease of swaps, weight factors, and sheer availability of swappable parts; there's nothing that can touch the EG,EH,EJ1 chassis.

-jonathan

[jfrolang]

They're still relatively new. The B series was still the way to go when the 7g Civic came out, but they're not compatible. As K-series engines and mounts get cheaper, and as these cars get older, they will pick up. I'm sure of it.

[iNsTuN nOoDoH]

2001 and later civics suck. 1.7 liter to make nothing much more than the 1.6 liter the year before. Really, all these late model Honda's suck. I don't know why they change things around, when they were fine with everything before. Their design sucks now. For instance, the new civic si, they made the passenger headlight bulb nearly impossible to change out.

[ash7]

^not to mention the returnless fuel system and horrible suspension design they implemented in 01.

Nothing like the oldschool stuff. Oldschool FTW

-jonathan

[Cato ED-6]

The newest civics I like are the EPs. I have no personal experince with them, but I believe they are still somewhat popular with "tuners".

But I would still take an EF or EK over it anyday.:D

[Kevykev]

For instance, the new civic si, they made the passenger headlight bulb nearly impossible to change out.



Only a mechanic would say something like that! :D

[KPowerEP3]

The newest civics I like are the EPs. I have no personal experince with them, but I believe they are still somewhat popular with "tuners".

But I would still take an EF or EK over it anyday.:D


EP's are gay. They'd be great, however if they weighed...eh...about 800lbs less.
When I weighed mine, with gutted hatch and no lardass driver, it tipped the scales at 32xx, but closer to 3300. Add 300 lbs for me, and 150-200 for a buddy, you're knocking on 2 tons really easily...the sad thing is that was with a gutted hatch and engine bay.

My car had mild work done to it...a2 head, kpro, s2 stg 1 cams, i/h/e, and could barely hold on to an LS swapped, full interior EG running, stock everything except an intake.

[Kevykev]

^ Didn't know they were that Heavy!

WOW!

[Dirty Octopus™]

Yeah... ive often thought about this myself.
though there are some very nice EM2s, EPs, FGs, & DC5s out there nothing quite compares to the '00 and back Honda chassis.
The spectacular part interchanging capabilities, light weights, and straight forwardness make these cars dearly missed. I wish that Honda would do what these Domestic Makes have done (ie Daimler Chrysler & Ford) and bring back like a 25th year Anniversary Civic, CRX, or Integra modeling the beloved 88-01 chassis :D

[HeLLo iM iZzY]

Yeah the 01-04 Civics suck.

New Si's 2dr and 4 dr = t3h s3x.

RSX's = t3h s3x.

[Bruce Leroy]

I might be a little bias but... I don't think think that honda died after 2000. They are not the light weight pocket rockets that they used to be, but they do ok compared to the cars that are in their class. The ep/dc5/fg are close to 3000 lbs, but all new cars are getting heavier. My em2 weighs ~2500 or about the same as a em1. The suspension design changed, but you can still make them handle. You just can't go slamming them and killing all the suspension travel. And you might run a little more static camber. The tsx still has double wishbone i believe. The motors are generally better than they were before; All costs aside k series > b series.

IMO, honda should have put a k20a3 in the insight, cleaned up the outside, taken off the wheel covers, and sold it as a crx. Then this thread would have never happened.

[mocha latte cupcake]

i think it did kinda "die" in a sense. the CTR of EK platform was the last TRUE civic. now granted i can appreciate the newer ones (whatever the new Civic chas. code is (si's) not teh EP3's although they are kinda cute in a way, its not a true version of what the civic in the 90s was bred to be. i think that the EG WILL always be the civic to own, (no hate to the EF and EK guys) but its the quintesintial (sp? i know i butchered that one) civic, its light, the swaps are limitless, and suspension is on point and the aftermarket is unrealistic! the newer ones are great and all but the civic got well......fat. its not eh Sub compact it once was, granted honda brought out the fit and thats nice and all but they made the civic a 20k car with basically minor balls... and the fit a 12k car with no balls.... i mean the micro compact scene is growing and the kids of today will talk about the fit as we used to talk about the civic, but still... more engineering and less money profit should have been taken into the making of the car. its got the power, its look is decent but still its no TRUE tuner lovin civic.

just my 2 cents on the honda world

[bounds25]

I agree. I think that after 2000 it was all down hill for tha civic. Over all the platforms that honda came out with just didnt seem to have the same "tunability factor" to me. I drive a 93 coupe and it just seems that no matter what your taste there are unlimited aftermarket mods for you. As for the newer civics things seem to have taken a "space ship" design. To me i dont feel that the new "civics" are realy civics, it seems that the strayed away from what everyone love about the older models. (example: clean smooth lines, affordabilty, weight, and overall "tunability".)

[JITB]

i saw this along time ago. i dont htink i died tho when i thought about it. I jsut think that they are still too new and they are still worth a little bit and arent easy to just get and do alot of work to because of price sompared to a 92-95 hatch. But im starting to see more and more 01-05's modded on the road. Give a few years when the k motors drop in price, there will be alot of them runin around with kswaps.. and i bet that the ep3 hatches will be the **** in a few years.. ive always liked them..but noone else does..:(

but i do own a 02 civic coupe as a daily, and i dont really have any temptation to mod it....dont know why maybe the tan color or the car note...lol

[I1I11I1]

Maybe once 01-05's start showing up blown up or with super high mileage, the temptation to mod will become greater.

Imagine picking up a clean-ish black/black 02 Civic Coupe w/ a blown headgasket for 1500 or so. Be patient and find the right K20a2/TSX K swap for a good deal and you could have a cool car for a good price.

[jbhondatech]

Honda put most of their R and D into the Acura line and cut cost to the Honda line because they were getting their ass handed to them by Lexus. This is evadent in the complete revamping of every car in the Acura line up. Now that this is complete you will notice the improvements to the accord, tuner friendly 07 civic si and the yet to be released redesign of the S2000 that is rumered to either have a K24 or the 3.0 vteci v6.

[©hris]

Good Thread!!! :goodjob:

Here is what happened to the Civics in 2001....

http://images.securedwebform.com/reviews/images/00hondas2000.jpg

[Crazy Asian]

And the end of the best handling Prelude....still 30,000 ouch. You can get an S2K for that matter.

[JITB]

they should bring back the prelude...

But htan again i dont think it would fit int he lineup.... it would be almost identical to a accord coupe....

i think also that the civic costs too much.. a Si runs about 24k? thats kind of ridiculious especially the other cars in that price range that too me are soo much better..

[DarkMystic]

they should bring back the prelude...

But htan again i dont think it would fit int he lineup.... it would be almost identical to a accord coupe....

i think also that the civic costs too much.. a Si runs about 24k? thats kind of ridiculious especially the other cars in that price range that too me are soo much better..

$24k? try about $20k-$21k

[SixSquared]

Tokyo Drift came out and now everyone wants 240s.

****... I own a 240. I wonder what the next fanboy/girl car will be... it was civics, now it's 240s... next?

[GTScoob]

****... I own a 240. I wonder what the next fanboy/girl car will be... it was civics, now it's 240s... next?
WRXs. You can get 02/03 ones for 10K if you look around. Same goes for used Evos.

The older Imprezas are great but most of their owners love them so much that they hold onto them so they're hard to find FS. Its really amazing how the WRX demographics have changed in the 3 years that I've had my car. You used to never see any ricers in WRXs, now half the owners are idiot ricers rolling around with unpainted bodykits and fartcan exhausts.

[Kevykev]

Great Discussion!

[Doppelgänger]

Tokyo Drift came out and now everyone wants 240s.

****... I own a 240. I wonder what the next fanboy/girl car will be... it was civics, now it's 240s... next?ummmmm the 240 bandwagon started long before that gay ass movie. :rolleyes:

[iNsTuN nOoDoH]

What's a 240 have anything to do with the new civics? Start another bandwagon thread and blame Fast and Furious in there with those infamous "that wing/sticker adds 10 hp lol" line.

The 01-05 civic's are alright daily drivers... not a tuner car. The 06+ civics has some stupid engineering in it in my opinion. Nice motor, but they're still nothing compared to a type r motor.

[Kevykev]

I think there are numerous factors that contribute to the decline:

The Expensive Price but not solely because of the cost. For around the same or less (SRT 4 or WRX) Or a little more (EVO - STi) you can purchase a vehicle with same or more potential that the civic.

A byproduct of Advance Engineering has yielded less power gains for your dollar with these vehicles.

just to elaborate.

[juelz1104]

civics r makin a comeback

[GSRteg®]

this is too true :)

Thus the reason SCC magazine called the "EG" civic the #1 "tuner" call of all time.

For ease of swaps, weight factors, and sheer availability of swappable parts; there's nothing that can touch the EG,EH,EJ1 chassis.

-jonathan

Damn right Eg's will be a collector item one day. :yes:

[green91]

hondas death came in 1991 with the end of the CRX

[I1I11I1]

Damn right Eg's will be a collector item one day. :yes:

****, at this rate it'll be sooner than you think. It's getting harder and harder to find clean EG's by the day.

[speedminded]

hondas death came in 1991 with the end of the CRXit lived on with the NSX though :D

[PSINXS]

iam trying to get an eg6 before they are all overpriced or gone.

[Mr.Big]

Damn right Eg's will be a collector item one day. :yes:


:yes: and all the other integra/civic's under the year 2000

[Z33_kid]

the true jdm civic legends have died out honda isnt the same anymore :(

[green91]

it lived on with the NSX though :D

while i love the nsx, i dont truly consider it a tuner car because its not widely available to a majority of people who modify and tune cars.. but it is still tuned and is a great performing vehicle

[josh green]

Nothing will compair to the 00-92 civic or the 01-94 integras. But you have to look at it from a honda america stand point. How many people that buy a civic are going to "fix it up?" I am sure 90% of the market is younger females. There market in america is young kids starting to drive through college. They have gotten big, the fit has the same wheelbase as the 88-91 hatch, and the fit is a "subcompact" All cars are getting bigger and its unfortunate. Honda is not out of the game, but they are not bringing them to the states. The new 4 door CTR is 2650lbs and is sporting a 220ps k20a (not the american made K20z3). The closest thing to the R we will get will be the $30k mugen edition. To be honest, I will buy an evo or something for that price.
Most people hating on Hondas are in the nissan crowd or are "rwd or nothing" clan. To be honest, I could care less as long as I like it and it handles well.

To finish this off and to answer the question above. Honda has lost its "tuner" aspect b/c new ones are too much money for the crowd that is into it. The Older model cars that we all love are gettig rare. I do not see the value of them going up (on paper) but they will be worth more to the owners. I know if I was to get hit and my car was totaled, my EG is only "worth" $2500-300 AT MOST. Though I might could have sold it for $5k or so. For what it costs to rebuild the title of a civic most people just say forget it. What is gut wrenching, is only 1500 S2kCR's being made. Maybe 1 day I will be able to afford one. It will have 50k miles or more and cost $50k by that time.

[OneSlow5pt0]

while i love the nsx, i dont truly consider it a tuner car because its not widely available to a majority of people who modify and tune cars.. but it is still tuned and is a great performing vehicle


x2,calling a nsx a tuner car is like calling a elise a tuner car,yea people fix them up,but very compared to civics

[josh green]

But just b/c IA has fewer Honda lovers on it doesnt mean that they are not still around. I have noticed there are a lot of people on here who hate on them. Just wait until the drift crazy subsides and then we will see what happens.

[RUFFIAN]

IMO, the civic has ballooned into a size and weight of the older accords thus tacking the appeal out of them. The motor is alot more powerful but it had to be to get the "pig" of a car moving. These new civics seem to fly in the face of the "doing more with less" motto of the earlier civics and there fans :thinking:

[E.G. KING]

stock for stock the ep's did start the beginning of more "luxury in a civic" but the only thing to me thats good about them is the k, lol which we all know is nasty in a eg ej or even an ek for that matter i will proudly rock my eg ftmfw!

[Glides]

But just b/c IA has fewer Honda lovers on it doesnt mean that they are not still around. I have noticed there are a lot of people on here who hate on them. Just wait until the drift crazy subsides and then we will see what happens.

Sorry friend. Drifting is THE fastest growing motorsport in the moment. I don't think it's going to start subsiding anytime soon. Drifting isn't Honda's problem, the rapid increase in price is.

Add that to the fact that they refuse to bring anything to the states that has any punch to it besides the NSX and the S2000 and you get the death of the Honda tuner scene past the year 2001. Honda labors under the assumption that they can bring a 30k Civic over here and compete with the Evos and the WRX's (Which is a small market anyway) and they can't. Anyone with that 30k to slap down is going to take a 4wd turbocharged Evo over a 30 grand (if dealers don't tack on "Destination fees" and "Offset fees") civic causing all but the foolish with their money fanboys to the Subs and the Evos.

So if you see someone rolling up to the Varsity with a new Mugen civic, laugh at them. They have just fallen into the worst trap ever. Plus since they will most likely be young, they did it with some 0 money down scheme causing their payments to be close to 800 bucks a month on a car that will probably not see the underside of 13 second quarters. ( I don't have official times )

And while we get that, The Japanese get the Mugen type RR. 240 HP at 8000 RPMS and a whopping 2733 lbs for that fatass. Yea cool, but for 38 grand, no thank you. Now you are way into Z car territory and approaching used Z06 territory. Let's compare.

Mugen type RR. 2733 lbs. 240 hp. 168 torque. 38,000 smacks.
2001 Z06 3115 lbs 385 hp. 385 torque 31,000 with low miles.

I'd spend my money on the Vette.

Honda is killing themselves with the tuner crowd in America. But in reality, why would they care? Americans mostly buy Hondas for reliability. They use them til they are no longer usefull and then they sell em to the likes of you guys, the tuners. Honda corperation makes no money off the majority of American tuners cause they are too damm brokeass to go out and buy a new HOnda speedster so why send em here?

Makes no sense too really.