stumpped

[jbhondatech]

I own a 2000 si that does not seem to be making the power that it should and I am posting this to hear some ideas.

B16
9lb flywheel
ctr pistons
arp rod bolts
micro-polished crank
rotating assymbly ballanced to 11k
supertech in and ex valves
supertech valvesprings
skunk2 pro1 cams
skunk2 pro gears
port-matched intake and exhaust
ported itr intake manifold
AEM short ram intake
port matched DC jdm 4-1 header
2.5" test pipe
DC exhaust
Apexi power FC
4.78 final drive
cam gears dialed in on dyno
itr lsd

Midrange power is outstanding but once you get to 8200 rpm the power peaks at 168 and flattens out and drops off past 9500.
The torque is flat all the way across at 107
The A/Fs stay between 12.5 and 13.0

The useable power is awsome but the peak is far below what it should be
incadently I threw in a set of skunk2 stage 1 cams and the stock ecu and made 155 at 8100 but lost 20 to 30 in the midrange.

any ideas would be greatly appreciated

[FAHHQUE700]

can you post the dyno graph and A/F as well...

[1civic]

Post a Graph, But it sounds like you need Bigger Cams... :boobies: ..Later !

[Vteckidd]

IMO quite the opposite, cams are too big for that setup. B16 with CTR pistons is only around 11.X:1.

remember you got a TINY motor in the NA world. sure you can rev the piss out of it, its a b16, but you might see better results from a milder cam such as a Skunk2 Stage 2 or Skunk2 Stage 3.

I havent seen great results from the B16s with PRO cams. Ive seen some guys with stock motors make around 150whp with them which is about 20whp over stock, but i havent seen a BIG number from them like you see on 1.8s an 2.0s.

YOu need a better header, DC JDM just isnt going to keep up steam

You need to lean it out, 12.5-13.0 is pretty rich for an NA motor. 13.5-13.8 is what i would tune it to, then see how power picks up or drops based on going leaner or richer.

My 2.0l made the most power at 14.0:1 whihc most people will tell you is crazy. but thats where it liked it an it never detonated.

so,
Get a better header that can breath with your motor and its RPMs, possibly pick up some TQ
Retune it

but even still that motor wont make much past 180-185whp if that

[Vteckidd]

what were your degree specs on the PRO1s?

[scttydb411]

sounds about right. header and exhaust and afr are holding back a few hp, but you're not going to see a whole lot more.

[jbhondatech]

My supertech valves were high comp valves so my compression should be around 12:1 my degree settings were +5in and +4ex any movement in either direction lost power. The dyno I am posting was done a week after it was tuned by Ed at Ballanced.

[Vteckidd]

those are weird cam degree settings, what is your base timing at?
but thats about right, get a better header an tune it leaner, youll gain more power, just dont expect 190-200whp out of that motor

[jbhondatech]

after having 3 diffeent cam setups in this car the first being CTRs I have decided that the pursuit of peak power is far less important than acheaving maximum acceleration out of each gear throughout the rev range if that means I give up top end power for a fatter power curve that maches my gearing then so be it.

Mr. kidd you are a great help and I hope you continue to help others as you have me.

I am looking into switching to a skunk2 manifold as well as a new header, any suggestions?

[Vteckidd]

im glad you said that, dont get caught in the PEAK POWER game, sometimes it doesnt end well, and i know this personally.

How does the car FEEL? if it feels much faster, then thats all that matters. if you just want numbers, go do a pull on a dynapack an youll "pick up" 10-15hp just from the machine. its not real power but yuoll have your "hondatech numbers" LOL.

I actually have a header that would be great for you, im releasing it next week is all i can say sit tight an all let you know as early as monday what it is .

its cheap too :)

as far as intake goes, the Skunk2 PRO Manifold is very nice an ive seen some good gains with it. Id pick that up along with a 65mm TB and youll pick up some top end

[jbhondatech]

I take it you work for batlground. I work for Alan Cox Automotive I primarily specialize in the S2000 I don't get to do to many B series N/A builds certinly not as invasive as mine is. Maybe I can run down to your shop and check out your header some time.

[Vteckidd]

yes i work for Batlground. Tell JMan i said hi
ill let you know when i get them in, should be early next week

[jbhondatech]

We are having a "Tuner nights" gathering at the shop this saterday night at 6 everyone is invited. Jman tells me you had a crx with a zc with distributor issues, did you ever figure it out?

[Vteckidd]

We are having a "Tuner nights" gathering at the shop this saterday night at 6 everyone is invited. Jman tells me you had a crx with a zc with distributor issues, did you ever figure it out?
yeah that was like 5 years ago!

I ended up trading it for a 90 CRX with a B16. Then i built a OEM GSR motor for it with:

Rocket Motorsports M22X
Rocket Motorsports SPrings and Ret
PR3 PIstons
ARP Rod Bolts
ANR Header
AEBS Intake manifold

ended up making 189whp with just a VAFC and a Chipped ecu, that was before the Crome Pro an Hondata times we are in now.

After that motor i built a 2.0l LSVTEC that made 237whp, if you search my name in the NA forum you can find the thread with it.

So i have alot of NA experience.

Now i own a Nissan lol

[speedminded]

I own a 2000 si that does not seem to be making the power that it should and I am posting this to hear some ideas.

B16
9lb flywheel
ctr pistons
arp rod bolts
micro-polished crank
rotating assymbly ballanced to 11k
supertech in and ex valves
supertech valvesprings
skunk2 pro1 cams
skunk2 pro gears
port-matched intake and exhaust
ported itr intake manifold
AEM short ram intake
port matched DC jdm 4-1 header
2.5" test pipe
DC exhaust
Apexi power FC
4.78 final drive
cam gears dialed in on dyno
itr lsd

Midrange power is outstanding but once you get to 8200 rpm the power peaks at 168 and flattens out and drops off past 9500.
The torque is flat all the way across at 107
The A/Fs stay between 12.5 and 13.0

The useable power is awsome but the peak is far below what it should be
incadently I threw in a set of skunk2 stage 1 cams and the stock ecu and made 155 at 8100 but lost 20 to 30 in the midrange.

any ideas would be greatly appreciatedI'd almost say sell the block complete as it is and pick up a 1.8 and do a similiar build to it, then intake and exhaust as Mr. Kidd adviced. I've had a few people with relatively built B16's drive my car (b18c5 dc2) and be really dissapointed with the $2,500 or so they spent on building theirs up...they can't believe the torque differance. I'm sure with your existing head on top of a little more displacement you'll have the gains you're looking for. :2cents:

[Vteckidd]

http://www.importatlanta.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136688

[jbhondatech]

I should have stated that I was not unhappy with the setup but that I had anticipated more peak power than the car delivered. My power assumptions were based on other B16 dynos with lesser mods. Don't get me wrong this car is by no means slow, the majority of a cars acceleration comes from its gearing, sure my civic will not do more than 150mph but it will do it and get there rather quickly.

[speedminded]

I should have stated that I was not unhappy with the setup but that I had anticipated more peak power than the car delivered. My power assumptions were based on other B16 dynos with lesser mods. Don't get me wrong this car is by no means slow, the majority of a cars acceleration comes from its gearing, sure my civic will not do more than 150mph but it will do it and get there rather quickly.Stock Y21 with the 4.785 FD?

[jbhondatech]

stock 2000 si with jdm 4.785 and itr lsd

[speedminded]

stock 2000 si with jdm 4.785 and itr lsdThought so, with the exception of a longer 4th and 5th it's basically the same as a '98+ Honda ITR. I'd want a really long 5th gear though for daily highway cruising.

[jbhondatech]

when i was running the ctr cam i was getting 28 city and 38 highway