View Full Version : General Chat Old Debate - Can a FWD Car be a Sportscar?
Can a stock FWD Car truly be a Sportscar? Not a "sporty" car so SRT-4 and Scion tC guys STFU. Just wondering what IA's opinion is on this long-beaten topic. Try to keep things civilized in the discussions. :cheers:
Nismo
08-20-2007, 04:07 PM
tC's are sports cars dummy. They have 2 doors.
OneSlow5pt0
08-20-2007, 04:09 PM
the pnly really sporty FWD cars i can think of is Celicas
tC's are sports cars dummy. They have 2 doors.My Yaris has two doors, that suddenly makes it a Sportscar? :thinking:
IronEagle
08-20-2007, 04:14 PM
The 1990's Lotus Elan convertible was a turbocharged 4 cylinder FWD sports car that was a blast to drive. I took a few out when I worked with LotuSport back in the day.
The 1990's Capri XR2 convertible is also one. Mazda powered turbo -4 roadster.
The 1990's new MG roadster was also a FWD sports car.
New Mini I suppose in decked out race trim.
ITR is also one for sure IMO.
bigdare23
08-20-2007, 04:20 PM
no
RWD is just associated with the term "Sport Car", kinda like cake and ice cream!
_Christian_
08-20-2007, 04:21 PM
lol. everyone with a fwd will say yes and everyone with a rwd/awd will say no. would be interesting to have the poll like this:
[]yes, and i drive a fwd
[]no, and i drive a fwd
[]yes, and i drive a rwd/awd
[]no, and i drive a rwd/awd
OneSlow5pt0
08-20-2007, 04:23 PM
i never knew the elan was FWD....that car is so cool,i want one
Bruce Leroy
08-20-2007, 04:26 PM
A sports car is type of automobile designed for sporting performance. While opinions differ as to the exact definition, most sports cars have two seats and two doors, and are designed to excel at a combination of acceleration, top speed, braking, and maneuverability. Great emphasis is often placed on handling—the ability of the car to remain in the control of the driver under challenging condition such as when the car's tires begin to lose their grip on corners.
TO me this statement defines a sports car perfectly. A fwd car can excel in all those things. So i say yes. A fwd car can be a sports car. Its just that you can't buy FWD sports cars, you have to build them.
bigdare23
08-20-2007, 04:32 PM
Think about it, when Honda made it's "sport cars" (nsx, s2000), it chose RWD for a reason. I also, dont believe you can "make" a car into a sport car (hence the true term Rice). It's predefined at the before hand.
madking411
08-20-2007, 04:36 PM
TO me this statement defines a sports car perfectly. A fwd car can excel in all those things. So i say yes. A fwd car can be a sports car. Its just that you can't buy FWD sports cars, you have to build them.
thats PERFECT! Cannot be said any better than what was said in your quote!
:goodjob: :yes: :bump:
speedminded
08-20-2007, 04:39 PM
Think about it, when Honda made it's "sport cars" (nsx, s2000), it chose RWD for a reason. I also, dont believe you can "make" a car into a sport car (hence the true term Rice). It's predefined at the before hand.Tell that to a certain Mr. Jackson back in 1981 when he was running circles around the Car & Driver Magazine test team's Mustang in a Civic ;)
bigdare23
08-20-2007, 04:49 PM
Tell that to a certain Mr. Jackson back in 1981 when he was running circles around the Car & Driver Magazine test team's Mustang in a Civic ;)
Was it stock? If not, it wasnt a production, out of a dealer sport car. If it was, it wasn't still viewed as a sport car.
©hris
08-20-2007, 04:50 PM
are FWD cars used in any Motorsports??? ..... Yes. Therefore FWD cars can be Sportscars :)
I also, dont believe you can "make" a car into a sport car (hence the true term Rice).RICE: Rice Inspired Cosmetic Enhancement
Rice is simply something serves no function other than to make a car look like something it isn't. There are more than an abundance of parts that can make a car sportier than it originally was while still serving a function.
Edited the original question to reflect this post.
are FWD cars used in any Motorsports??? ..... Yes. Therefore FWD cars can be Sportscars :)Not to bash you, but that's kinda of a half@ssed argument. My Yaris has it's own race series, but that hardly makes it a sportscar. You can go drift a Toyota Cressida but that doesn't make it a sportscar. The examples keep going, but I'm sure you get the point.
©hris
08-20-2007, 04:59 PM
http://www.sportscarmarket.com/
look for the Fwd cars
©hris
08-20-2007, 05:00 PM
Anti- FWD site....
http://www.angelfire.com/biz/snwvlly/fwd.html
Bruce Leroy
08-20-2007, 05:03 PM
Since we are talking about stock cars, at what point does a car become a sports car? Is it all #'s. OR does the overall feel of the car determine whats a sports car and whats not? Why would a srt, or a si not be considered a sports car. Or better yet, why not a mazdaspeed 3?
BABY J
08-20-2007, 05:07 PM
awesome thread topic.
subscribing
Since we are talking about stock cars, at what point does a car become a sports car? Is it all #'s. OR does the overall feel of the car determine whats a sports car and whats not? Why would a srt, or a si not be considered a sports car. Or better yet, why not a mazdaspeed 3?That's the question, isn't it? The definition of a sports car has changed a lot since the Corvettes of the 60's. Where does it sit now?
Also, the Mazdaspeed3 is a station-wagon. If you call it a sportscar, then consider my Yaris as Compact-Luxury.
bigdare23
08-20-2007, 05:08 PM
RICE: Rice Inspired Cosmetic Enhancement
Rice is simply something serves no function other than to make a car look like something it isn't. There are more than an abundance of parts that can make a car sportier than it originally was while still serving a function.
Rice burner is a pejorative used initially to describe Asian-made — specifically Japanese-made — motorcycles and automobiles. Many variations have also been used, such as rice rocket for Japanese sport bikes.
More contemporary use of the term rice burner, along with the prefix rice, has taken on an alternate pejorative meaning for an automobile that has been modified to give impression of high performance, but does not necessarily have any high-performance capabilities. This practice is in direct contrast to the "stealth" or "sleeper" style of automotive modification, where a vehicle may have major performance modifications, but the appearance remains similar to that of a stock model. In this manner, the appellation can apply to any vehicle regardless of country of origin. The most commonly modified cars are sport compacts, but the term can apply to any class of vehicle, including trucks
Your definition the "new" definition of rice, but it started out representing the whole scene.
OneSlow5pt0
08-20-2007, 05:09 PM
well u have sports car then u have a sports coupe
whats the diffence
as in celica is a sports coupe while a corvette is a sports car
speedminded
08-20-2007, 05:15 PM
What defines a sportscar? The definition of a sport bike is the RPM's it runs, my Triumph Daytona 955i was considered a sport touring bike because it redlined at 10,500, it would still run a 10.8 second quarter in stock form and out-handle most sport bikes.
Is it the G-forces in a 60 mph slalom that defines a sports car or it's power to weight ratio? Just having two doors isn't an arguement because there's plenty of overweight coupes out...normally given the title "sport coupe".
The Integra Type-R is definitely, without a doubt, a race worthy front wheel drive... with the proper tires anyways. Normally FF cars are given the name sport compact, there is no definite answer.
Your definition the "new" definition of rice, but it started out representing the whole scene.New or old definition is subjective to personal opinion much like this thread title. Likewise, the thread is about whether or not there are factory FWD Sportscars, not what the definition of what RICE is. :)
As for your statement that you can't make a car into a sportscar; I agree with you to an extent. Nothing you do to a car will change what it was from the showroom floor. However, I do believe that you can make a car compete or surpass sportscars which would, in essence, make it a "sports car" in it's own right. Is this situation, what keeps it from being a sportscar? Appearance? Performance numbers? Elitism? Again, it all depends on personal interpretation and opinion which is why I made this thread. I'm just looking at the opinion of others and yours has been well noted. :cheers:
well u have sports car then u have a sports coupe
whats the diffence
as in celica is a sports coupe while a corvette is a sports carI think they classify the new Z06 as a Supercar instead of a Sportscar. I may be wrong though.
Bruce Leroy
08-20-2007, 05:28 PM
This question does not have a answer, and this thread could go 1000 pages and we wouldn't have one.
lol. everyone with a fwd will say yes and everyone with a rwd/awd will say no. would be interesting to have the poll like this:
[]yes, and i drive a fwd
[]no, and i drive a fwd
[]yes, and i drive a rwd/awd
[]no, and i drive a rwd/awd
I say yes and i drive a FWD and RWD car
OneSlow5pt0
08-20-2007, 05:29 PM
New or old definition is subjective to personal opinion much like this thread title. Likewise, the thread is about whether or not there are factory FWD Sportscars, not what the definition of what RICE is. :)
As for your statement that you can't make a car into a sportscar; I agree with you to an extent. Nothing you do to a car will change what it was from the showroom floor. However, I do believe that you can make a car compete or surpass sportscars which would, in essence, make it a "sports car" in it's own right. Is this situation, what keeps it from being a sportscar? Appearance? Performance numbers? Elitism? Again, it all depends on personal interpretation and opinion which is why I made this thread. I'm just looking at the opinion of others and yours has been well noted. :cheers:
I think they classify the new Z06 as a Supercar instead of a Sportscar. I may be wrong though.
no,i would never put a corvette as a super car...unless it was a callaway
This question does not have a answer, and this thread could go 1000 pages and we wouldn't have one.Exactly, which is why I'm not looking for a solid answer. Merely opinions. :goodjob:
no,i would never put a corvette as a super car...unless it was a callawayChecking the specs on the new Vette, I wouldn't be surprised if it got classified as one. Not like I'll ever be able to afford one either way though. :D
OneSlow5pt0
08-20-2007, 05:35 PM
Exactly, which is why I'm not looking for a solid answer. Merely opinions. :goodjob:
Checking the specs on the new Vette, I wouldn't be surprised if it got classified as one. Not like I'll ever be able to afford one either way though. :D
i would say a panoz was a supercar before a vette
speedminded
08-20-2007, 05:36 PM
i would say a panoz was a supercar before a vetteThere's only one production car powered by a Ford engine that's a supercar and it's not a Panoz :tongue:
OneSlow5pt0
08-20-2007, 05:39 PM
There's only one production car powered by a Ford engine that's a supercar and it's not a Panoz :tongue:
Noble M400:goodjob:
Nismo
08-20-2007, 05:42 PM
To be a sports car you have to have over 100 horsepower, so that rules out the Yaris....
speedminded
08-20-2007, 05:43 PM
Noble M400:goodjob:Noble is not a production car in the US. I'm talking about the Saleen S7.
To be a sports car you have to have over 100 horsepower, so that rules out the Yaris....106 factory rated. :D
Back on topic.
OneSlow5pt0
08-20-2007, 05:50 PM
Noble is not a production car in the US. I'm talking about the Saleen S7.
i know but all a noble is, is a TT focus engine,lol
but saleen is deff super car
super car can not be a mass produced car,thats what ruls out corvettes
super car can not be a mass produced carSays who?
OneSlow5pt0
08-20-2007, 05:53 PM
Says who?
says me honkie:D
©hris
08-20-2007, 05:58 PM
http://www.caradvice.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/open-shot.thumbnail.jpg
2007 HSV VXR Turbo = Pimp Shit
http://www.caradvice.com.au/4595/2007-hsv-vxr-turbo-road-test/
3kgtdrvr
08-20-2007, 06:03 PM
the pnly really sporty FWD cars i can think of is Celicas
FWD 3000gt's? i think they are pretty sporty...heavy, but still sporty.
OneSlow5pt0
08-20-2007, 06:07 PM
FWD 3000gt's? i think they are pretty sporty...heavy, but still sporty.
true...
thats probbly one of the best example of a FWD sports car
On_Her_Face
08-20-2007, 06:18 PM
the corvette z06 is not a supercar, its a supercar killer, there for its still a supercar..
and i drive a corvette and yes most "sports cars" are rear wheel drive, which i also believe there is a reason for that. i am sure there is a fwd sports car out there but i can not name one off the top of my head
p.s. i am talking about in stock form
OneSlow5pt0
08-20-2007, 06:24 PM
im sorry,but z06s still look cheap......yea,but compare it to a say F430 that its bout same specs...but a F430 is deff in another league in other things
On_Her_Face
08-20-2007, 06:25 PM
true and not to get off topic look at the price difference.
95alty
08-20-2007, 06:47 PM
I have a FWD altima and i believe that it is a sports car... Just because its not RWD doesnt mean its not... For instance the 240 is a sports car right??? Has the same damn engine the altima has just rwd....
95alty
08-20-2007, 06:48 PM
Nissan BlueBird... FWD altima with a built sr20det engine in it.... built sports car... just fwd and 4 door
On_Her_Face
08-20-2007, 06:57 PM
but other things change when u have a car that has the same powerplant, such as weight, gearing, suspension, brakes, and the tuning of the motor.
95alty
08-20-2007, 07:02 PM
Can a stock FWD Car truly be a Sportscar? Not a "sporty" car so SRT-4 and Scion tC guys STFU. Just wondering what IA's opinion is on this long-beaten topic. Try to keep things civilized in the discussions. :cheers:
This was the original question... And the answer is yes... Proof is a stock nissan bluebird(altima) that has an SR20DET in it... Doesnt matter about tuning, suspension, etc etc.... So to answer the question... Yes:goodjob:
On_Her_Face
08-20-2007, 07:07 PM
This was the original question... And the answer is yes... Proof is a stock nissan bluebird(altima) that has an SR20DET in it... Doesnt matter about tuning, suspension, etc etc.... So to answer the question... Yes:goodjob:
you sir have missed my point, a suspension on a 350z is different (most likely better) than a 3.5 altima and would out handle it... that is all i am saying. and i believe they have different horsepower raitings (the engine tuning i was talking about)
95alty
08-20-2007, 07:28 PM
Im not talking about the 3.5 altima... im talking about the 93-97 nissan bluebird... i apologize if i mis understood what you were referring too.
Andy_013
08-20-2007, 08:08 PM
i know but all a noble is, is a TT focus engine,lol
but saleen is deff super car
super car can not be a mass produced car,thats what ruls out corvettes
The noble has 3.0 liter Taurus engine.
Corvette Z06 is hand made.
Here's :2cents: Is the ITR a sports car I say yes!!! Also look at all the jdm nissan fwd with sr20det.
speedminded
08-20-2007, 08:12 PM
The noble has 3.0 liter Taurus engine.
Here's :2cents: Is the ITR a sports car I say yes!!!The Noble has whatever engine you feel like putting in it, it's a kit car in the US. The first one I saw in person had a boosted Mercedes engine...
JDMjoe
08-20-2007, 08:14 PM
Of course, you ever heard of a Type R Integra or Civic??? :goodjob:
speedminded
08-20-2007, 08:20 PM
Of course, you ever heard of a Type R Integra or Civic??? :goodjob:No matter how you look at it, it's still gonna be considered a sport compact.
Andy_013
08-20-2007, 08:20 PM
The Noble still a good looking car that I will not own.
OneSlow5pt0
08-20-2007, 08:54 PM
i thought about this when i was picking up my dad's car
supercar example are:Jaguar XJ220,F40,F50,CLK GTR,S7,ME412,
these cars have stood the test of time,then under them...id start putting cars like:Zonda,Enzo,Carrea GT,TVRs,Aston Martins,SLR Mclaren,
as much as i love corvettes,it is very hard to say corvette and XJ220 in same setence
JDMjoe
08-20-2007, 09:27 PM
No matter how you look at it, it's still gonna be considered a sport compact.
True but its still a sports car to me :D
.gauge.
08-20-2007, 09:42 PM
I'm just going to put out the 1991-94 Sentra SE-R's.
They were light and put out good horsepower for the early 90's.
Sport Compact car did a test. Their SE-R vs two nismo tuned Spec Vs and the little ol B13 outran them in pretty much everything. Like I said, they put out some decent horsepower for a N/A 4 cylinder, they can handle as good as any car out there and just to add to it, its lightweight. Truly a FWD sports car in my book.
I love how putting an SR20 into anything automatically makes it a sports car. Come on you Nissan guys, surely you have more to add than just some "OMG SR20 IS DA GREATEST" babble. Whomever even considers an Altima as a sportscar is hardly capable of distinguishing between classes of cars. Putting a 200HP engine into something doesn't make something a sportscar. 95Alty, I'm not trying to bust your balls, but your Altima is as much of a sports car as my Yaris is. Which is not even close. A sporty car it may be, a sportscar it is not. Also, the 240SX we got here stateside may have been a sportscar back in Japan but, with it's balls chopped off and replaced with the KA series powerplants, it was more of a sport compact than a true sportscar. That and they handle like @ss which is why they're popular with drifters.
.gauge., as much as I love the B13 SE-R, and believe me I do, I just never considered it a sports car. Not sure why. Maybe it was the frumpy styling or something. :dunno: It was impressive, but it's wasn't OMG WOW. I do respect how under appreciated they were though. Definitely one of the most under-rated cars of it's time. :yes:
OneSlow5pt0
08-20-2007, 10:37 PM
i would call a 240sx a sports coupe
while a RX-7,300ZX, an Supra would be sports cars
SampaGuy
08-20-2007, 10:48 PM
I guess it all depends on your definition of a sports car. To me, the handling is the most important aspect of it. I consider my miata a sportscar even though its slow as hell in a straight line.
.gauge.
08-20-2007, 11:10 PM
I love how putting an SR20 into anything automatically makes it a sports car. Come on you Nissan guys, surely you have more to add than just some "OMG SR20 IS DA GREATEST" babble. Whomever even considers an Altima as a sportscar is hardly capable of distinguishing between classes of cars. Putting a 200HP engine into something doesn't make something a sportscar. 95Alty, I'm not trying to bust your balls, but your Altima is as much of a sports car as my Yaris is.
.gauge., as much as I love the B13 SE-R, and believe me I do, I just never considered it a sports car. Not sure why. Maybe it was the frumpy styling or something. :dunno: It was impressive, but it's wasn't OMG WOW. I do respect how under appreciated they were though. Definitely one of the most under-rated cars of it's time. :yes:
Yeah, I understand where you're coming from.
Theres one ALTIMA I could think of that could be somewhat of a sports car. The Altima SE-R. I mean, its no beast, but it is defenitely sporty.
Now, the Bluebird Attesa SSS in Japan comes with an AWD SR20DET and competes with the STI's and such, but thats not what we're talking about.
Theres also the new spec-v that was track tested and tuned on the newburge, its even been said it takes mini coopers on the auto-x's. THAT is sporty to me. Yeah, I'm a nissan fanboy but I don't obsess over SR20's or even the VQ series engines, but Nissan has been making great cars with decent horsepower, even if they don't have any cars in any race events.
OneSlow5pt0
08-20-2007, 11:28 PM
I guess it all depends on your definition of a sports car. To me, the handling is the most important aspect of it. I consider my miata a sportscar even though its slow as hell in a straight line.
id call a miata a sports car
allmotoronly
08-20-2007, 11:38 PM
it really depends on what sport you are trying to compete in. FWD makes a good sports car in the sense that some can be made into great auto-x cars. however, if drifting is your thing, then I guess you wouldn't consider a fwd to be a sports car. I would consider an ITR to be a sports car. It may not be the fastest car, but it was build with racing in mind, and is pretty sporty.
I guess it all depends on your definition of a sports car. To me, the handling is the most important aspect of it. I consider my miata a sportscar even though its slow as hell in a straight line.The Miata, while underpowered, is a sportscar.
Killer
08-21-2007, 09:47 AM
i've only skimmed this thread but, wouldn't an si be considered a sports car??? isn't the Gti fwd??? i think that's a sports car...
slowrolla97
08-21-2007, 09:53 AM
true...
thats probbly one of the best example of a FWD sports car
wtf. Front Wheel Drive 3000gt's are NOT sports cars. They are Grand Tourers. Hence the name 3000GT.
this is NICK btw. not slowrolla.
Sport1.3
08-21-2007, 10:12 AM
The Miata, while underpowered, is a sportscar.
LOL @ Miata
LOL @ MiataSports Car International Top Sports Cars - 1990's
1. Mazda Miata (NA)
2. Porsche Boxster (986)
3. Ferrari 550
4. McLaren F1
5. Porsche 911 (993)
6. Acura NSX
7. Ferrari F355
8. Nissan 300ZX
9. Lotus Elise
10. Mazda RX-7 (FD)
MSN Auto: http://autos.msn.com/advice/article.aspx?contentid=2904
lol indeed.
speedminded
08-21-2007, 10:16 AM
Sports Car International Top Sports Cars - 1990's
1. Mazda Miata (NA)
2. Porsche Boxster (986)
3. Ferrari 550
4. McLaren F1
5. Porsche 911 (993)
6. Acura NSX
7. Ferrari F355
8. Nissan 300ZX
9. Lotus Elise
10. Mazda RX-7 (FD)
lol indeed.For the cost to power, handling, maintenance, & reliability ratio it's by far the best deal on the list.
Sport1.3
08-21-2007, 10:22 AM
a sports car can be defined by its original intentions. That to me is the best definition of a true "sports car".
Sport1.3
08-21-2007, 10:27 AM
"A simple definition of a sports car is "a small low car with a high-powered engine, and generally seats two people". This is more or less a "textbook" definition but gives us an idea of what the public perceives to be a sports car"
"The Houghton Mifflin dictionary defines a sports car as: "An automobile equipped for racing, especially an aerodynamically shaped one-passenger or two-passenger vehicle having a low center of gravity and steering and suspension designed for precise control at high speeds".
speedminded
08-21-2007, 11:04 AM
"A simple definition of a sports car is "a small low car with a high-powered engine, and generally seats two people". This is more or less a "textbook" definition but gives us an idea of what the public perceives to be a sports car"
"The Houghton Mifflin dictionary defines a sports car as: "An automobile equipped for racing, especially an aerodynamically shaped one-passenger or two-passenger vehicle having a low center of gravity and steering and suspension designed for precise control at high speeds".Well that rules out the first 40 years of the Corvette, hahaha! :tongue:
OneSlow5pt0
08-21-2007, 01:07 PM
lol,the main thing to me in a sports car is 2 doors,sleek looks and great handling
SampaGuy
08-21-2007, 02:48 PM
LOL @ Miata
the miata is in the same boat as the aw11 IMO
OneSlow5pt0
08-21-2007, 03:28 PM
the miata is in the same boat as the aw11 IMO
this is true:yes:
Bruce Leroy
08-21-2007, 04:17 PM
lol,the main thing to me in a sports car is 2 doors,sleek looks and great handling
so whats an evo or a sti?
OneSlow5pt0
08-21-2007, 04:21 PM
so whats an evo or a sti?
EVO and STI and M3 and M5,are coupes and sedans or saloons
Kevykev
08-21-2007, 04:22 PM
Sports car = Subjective label for a car!
Not limited to amount of doors or drive train - it just has to be performance oriented.
Sport Sedans, Sport Coupes are guess what??
ALL CARS :yes:
so whats an evo or a sti?Turbocharged Grocery Getters :D
OneSlow5pt0
08-21-2007, 04:28 PM
Turbocharged Grocery Getters :D
same diffence
Kevykev
08-21-2007, 04:32 PM
Add an RX8 to the list and what about the Porsche Panamera?
Maserati Has a "Saloon" as well!
OneSlow5pt0
08-21-2007, 04:33 PM
thier nothin wrong with saloons...their some of the fastest cars in the world
example the new TT M5
Kevykev
08-21-2007, 04:37 PM
Love the way this thread transitioned away from the fwd deal.
I am partial to sedans anyway and will always love 4 door vehicles from the M dept.!
as mentioned:
http://bigpicture.typepad.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/07porsche184.jpg
speedminded
08-21-2007, 04:52 PM
as mentioned:
http://bigpicture.typepad.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/07porsche184.jpg
http://www.onlyporsche.net/images/stories/2005/20051028_porsche_panamera.jpg
OneSlow5pt0
08-21-2007, 04:56 PM
eww
speedminded
08-21-2007, 05:12 PM
ewwAt least the Panamera is functional and still a decent drivers car....I saw a few 911 limo's out in California :upchuck:
Sorry fwd-ers, but you look at any respected source and it's a straight "no." Can't even be called a debate.
Elbow
08-23-2007, 02:35 PM
I think they can, like a CRX I always thought of as a sports car, lightweight, good handling, etc. Also old VW's like GTi's and all.
I think they can, like a CRX I always thought of as a sports car, lightweight, good handling, etc. Also old VW's like GTi's and all.
All are classified as sports coupes/compacts.
Sorry fwd-ers, but you look at any respected source and it's a straight "no." Can't even be called a debate.Check through the thread. There are a few respected sources with FWD cars on their sportscar lists. In your opinion it's no debate, but that's yours and yours alone. Judging by the poll, I see more than a few people who disagree with you. :)
On_Her_Face
08-23-2007, 05:21 PM
i think fwd is NOT a sports car, they can be sporty but i have never seen one classified as a sports car, does not mean im hating though. its just a name
IndianStig
08-23-2007, 05:48 PM
yes, honda prelude FTW
OneSlow5pt0
08-23-2007, 05:49 PM
Lotus Elan is a sportscar
so a FWD can be a sports car
Lotus Elan is a sportscar
so a FWD can be a sports car
Ok, let me rephrase that, any FWD car without a bespoke racing design is not a sports car. That means things like the Type-Rs, etc. anything that is a performance enhanced version of something other than a sports car. This also goes for the M3, M5, M6, these are sports coupes, nothing more. The Z4/Z4M however, are sports cars...
It's a very fine line.
Also, if you really want to get technical, the word sports car was originally only associated with small, light, 2-seater convertibles. It is only recently that the word has become such a gray area, and only because of people attempting to compare souped-up Civics with Lotuses.
OneSlow5pt0
08-23-2007, 06:15 PM
Ok, let me rephrase that, any FWD car without a bespoke racing design is not a sports car. That means things like the Type-Rs, etc. anything that is a performance enhanced version of something other than a sports car. This also goes for the M3, M5, M6, these are sports coupes, nothing more. The Z4/Z4M however, are sports cars...
It's a very fine line.
Also, if you really want to get technical, the word sports car was originally only associated with small, light, 2-seater convertibles. It is only recently that the word has become such a gray area, and only because of people attempting to compare souped-up Civics with Lotuses.
yea, i agree with that...i would never call a civic,srt4, celica or anything like that a sport car,they can be sporty..but not a sports car
collins
08-23-2007, 07:42 PM
im sorry,but z06s still look cheap.
i have to... HAVE TO... HAVE TO disagree. imo, the c6z06 is one of the most agressive looking, sexiest cars on the planet!
OneSlow5pt0
08-23-2007, 07:52 PM
i have to... HAVE TO... HAVE TO disagree. imo, the c6z06 is one of the most agressive looking, sexiest cars on the planet!
im talkin inside
Tinton
08-23-2007, 08:06 PM
For however much I hate FWD cars...I have to say that there are SOME FWD sportscars. Drivetrain layout isn't all of it, or else you could call any ancient family sedan from the 60's with a RWD a sports car.
GTI, CRX, Del Sol (maybe), Mini Cooper, and a few others are FWD sports cars. A Integra Type R isn't, IMO. Neither is any Civic ever made, or Sentras, or Altimas, or SRT4, or any of those other sedan/coupe family cars. If its based on a family car or whatever and its FWD, its not a sports car, its a sport compact (as long as it has some power and handling).
To me, its more about the original purpose of the car. Look at the Mini Cooper or Honda CRX. 2 seats, low to the ground, great handling, etc, etc. I've got a couple of Fieros and I call them sports cars, even if they only have 140 hp. MR layout, 2 seats, low to the ground, good handling and decent speed.
hXc007
08-23-2007, 08:14 PM
what about the rsx type s or type r?
also the mazdaspeed 6?
whats up with that?
what about the rsx type s or type r?
also the mazdaspeed 6?
whats up with that?
No and no.
Nothing's up with that.
OneSlow5pt0
08-24-2007, 12:08 AM
No and no.
Nothing's up with that.
x2,thiers 2 honda sports cars
s2k and NSX,thats it
VooDooXII
08-24-2007, 01:48 AM
Take a look at this. (http://www.slate.com/id/2081194/)
Sport1.3
08-24-2007, 10:20 AM
Take a look at this. (http://www.slate.com/id/2081194/)
." I suppose I shouldn't knock it until I've tried it -- but I'm not going to try it! That's the point. Housewives heading to the Safeway aren't going to try it either. The joys of rear-drive are accessible to them -- it's the joys of FWD that are reserved for the skilled Grassroots Motorsport elite."
So basically this guy is saying he is a highly unskilled driver and prefers a RWD car based soley on the test results he himself had with an early 80's Audi 100, a VW cabrio, and a Solara??? :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: When you test V8 Mustangs against VW cabrio's ofcourse you're going to think the Ford is more fun to drive. He even in the article admits the RSX was faster on a test track then a 330i BMW, but still prefers the RWD because he doesnt have to do as much work :lmfao: ...what a bleeding little vag
Look at the Mini Cooper or Honda CRX. 2 seats, low to the ground, great handling, etc, etc.Both the CRX (JDM) and Mini-Cooper have backseats.
Also, if you really want to get technical, the word sports car was originally only associated with small, light, 2-seater convertibles. It is only recently that the word has become such a gray area, and only because of people attempting to compare souped-up Civics with Lotuses.Define recent, because I've seen reliable sources define FWD cars from the 80's as popular sportscars. Also, I highly doubt that the reasoning for classifying FWD cars as sportscars it to compete with Lotuses.
You started off with a decent approach, but now you're just coming off as an elitist-prick.
Both the CRX (JDM) and Mini-Cooper have backseats.
Define recent, because I've seen reliable sources define FWD cars from the 80's as popular sportscars. Also, I highly doubt that the reasoning for classifying FWD cars as sportscars it to compete with Lotuses.
You started off with a decent approach, but now you're just coming off as an elitist-prick.
Me, elitist? Hell no. I love all cars, sports car or not. I just hate how every thing is becoming a "sports car" now. I mean seriously, I heard someone call the new Lancer a sports car, lol. When will it end?
But on the topic of me coming off as an elitist, before my RX-7 I owned a GS-R and I had a lot more fun in that. Not to mention I'm ready to get rid of my car and get an 03 cobra or an M3, and I don't consider either of them sports cars.
Me, elitist? Hell no. I love all cars, sports car or not. I just hate how every thing is becoming a "sports car" now. I mean seriously, I heard someone call the new Lancer a sports car, lol. When will it end?I feel you man. That's one of the reasons why I started the thread. I guess your post just came off in a negative light to me. No harm no foul. :cheers:
santacruz77
08-24-2007, 01:51 PM
i say yes i mean itr? crx and so on but rwd ftw
santacruz77
08-24-2007, 01:52 PM
and yes rwd= more fun to drive even if its slower.
SixSquared
08-24-2007, 02:57 PM
x2,thiers 2 honda sports cars
s2k and NSX,thats it
You need to say that currently Honda has two sports cars... Honda was built around racing, and their older models show that. On a skidpad, the del sol pulled the same numbers as a Porsche. You also need to look at the predecessors of the s2000.... The s600, s800, and s1000.
Personally, I believe that fwd cars can be fine sports cars. I loved all 6 of the del sols that I owned, and I definitely consider them sports cars.
another question to ask is, among rwd CARS, not trucks, where does the line get drawn about sports car vs regular car?
bastarling84
08-24-2007, 03:14 PM
I have a FWD altima and i believe that it is a sports car... Just because its not RWD doesnt mean its not... For instance the 240 is a sports car right??? Has the same damn engine the altima has just rwd....
lol
I will also vote yes, RWD is a must for it to be a real sports car.
i think yes they can.. and there are plenty fwd sport cars. to me sport car means performance aimed. WE all know there are normal cars that just get driven and thats what there made for. Than they have cars that get produced that have more sport car abilities until recently most of them have been FWD..
i think yes they can.. and there are plenty fwd sport cars. to me sporty means performance aimed. WE all know there are normal cars that just get driven and thats what there made for. Than they have cars that get produced that have more of a sporty until recently most of them have been FWD..
See, now you're confusing "sporty cars" with "sports cars"
*edited*
:)
You were right the first time.
Elbow
08-25-2007, 07:30 AM
I have a FWD altima and i believe that it is a sports car... Just because its not RWD doesnt mean its not... For instance the 240 is a sports car right??? Has the same damn engine the altima has just rwd....
:no: I hope you are kidding.....a Altima IS NOT a sports car.... :thinking: LOL
In my book a real sports car is a 2 seater usually, lightweight, awesome suspension, fast revving, etc. A 240SX is not a sports car, it is sporty, but not a sports car, a EVO or STI is not a sports car, when I hear sports cars I think back to British roots like old MG's and stuff, Miatas, Elise, etc etc. Even in my book CRX's and small lightweight performance minded FWD cars.
superboost
08-25-2007, 10:01 AM
:no: I hope you are kidding.....a Altima IS NOT a sports car.... :thinking: LOL
In my book a real sports car is a 2 seater usually, lightweight, awesome suspension, fast revving, etc. A 240SX is not a sports car, it is sporty, but not a sports car, a EVO or STI is not a sports car, when I hear sports cars I think back to British roots like old MG's and stuff, Miatas, Elise, etc etc. Even in my book CRX's and small lightweight performance minded FWD cars.
those are roadsters.
When I think sports cars, I think of vettes, vipers, porsches etc. Typically (but not limited to) rwd high speed, no frills cars designed to go fast. You sir are referring to roadsters. Light weight, hi-revving open top machines , also no frills. THe lines tend to blur when you define the vehicles, but those are roadsters. They are apart of the sports car genus but just like you've got super cars, hyper cars, roadsters, sports cars and sporty cars, while they may all fall under the umbrella, each one is different.
BKgen®
08-25-2007, 10:18 AM
let me slap an NGM blower kit on my car and then you can try to tell me it's still not a sports car...
those are roadsters.
30 years ago the words roadster and sports car were synonymous.
bastarling84
08-25-2007, 11:17 AM
No one ever goes through a mid-life crisis and gets a Jetta.
No one ever goes through a mid-life crisis and gets a Jetta.
lol +1
OneSlow5pt0
08-25-2007, 12:58 PM
roadsters were the first sports cars
ie, corvette
Pavlo
08-25-2007, 06:39 PM
Just VW has had 2 FWD true sports cars over the years, which is the Sirocco from the 80's, and the Corrado. Both of these are true sports cars, not just a sportier version of the Golf, which is the GTI.
I actually consider my MK3 GTI a sports car as well, unfortunately so does my insurance company (because it is a 6-cyl) :(.
Just VW has had 2 FWD true sports cars over the years, which is the Sirocco from the 80's, and the Corrado. Both of these are true sports cars, not just a sportier version of the Golf, which is the GTI.
I actually consider my MK3 GTI a sports car as well, unfortunately so does my insurance company (because it is a 6-cyl) :(.
Both the Scirocco and Corrado where both classified as sports compacts. Very cool cars, though.
Elbow
08-25-2007, 11:55 PM
Porsches and all to me are more of high end sports cars/exotics. Sports cars yes, but REALLY looking into what a sports car is to me is not a high hp monster.
DJ Raijin
08-28-2007, 02:52 AM
Sports Car
Noun
1. A small low car with a high-powered engine; usually seats two persons.
That's webster's definition. To me though, a FWD vehicle will never be a true sports car simply because of the difficulty in keeping traction with larger HP numbers. Unlike MR and FR configurations.
nbennettksu
08-30-2007, 10:39 AM
Even tho I drive an FWD car (sport coupe, not sports car), I'd have to say no.
green91
08-30-2007, 10:41 AM
I guess ITR and CTR arent sports cars then huh
nbennettksu
08-30-2007, 10:55 AM
guess not. FWD dont handle near as well as RWD. Why do you think Honda made the NSX RWD??? True, superior handleing sports car are RWD...
nbennettksu
08-30-2007, 10:58 AM
Not meaning to step on anyones toes and hurt your feelings...the integra type r and civic type r are not "sports cars" in my opinion.
NSX, Ferrarri, Lambos, M6 = Sports car
OneSlow5pt0
08-30-2007, 01:09 PM
my celica handles better than my FC
also lotus elan is sports car
/ thread
VooDooXII
08-30-2007, 01:17 PM
my celica handles better than my FC
also lotus elan is sports car
/ thread
You must be joking... :thinking:
OneSlow5pt0
08-30-2007, 01:19 PM
You must be joking... :thinking:
nope...way tighter,but i also had crappy tires on the FC...idk,id have to drive FC again
nope...way tighter,but i also had crappy tires on the FC...idk,id have to drive FC again
Yeah, you're crazy man. My FC (on shitty tires) handles way better than my GS-R (on good tires)
OneSlow5pt0
08-30-2007, 01:38 PM
Yeah, you're crazy man. My FC (on shitty tires) handles way better than my GS-R (on good tires)
lol..........ur probbly right, fc > celica
CleanCL
08-30-2007, 01:38 PM
good thread... dont knwo where I stand.
lol..........ur probbly right, fc > celica
You should head out to a track day or maybe an autocross, they are a blasty blast. I bet the celica would be pretty decent
OneSlow5pt0
08-30-2007, 02:58 PM
You should head out to a track day or maybe an autocross, they are a blasty blast. I bet the celica would be pretty decent
its auto,so no auto X...lol
uproot
08-30-2007, 11:52 PM
I guess ITR and CTR arent sports cars then huh
yeah, they are.
aemkitfox
08-31-2007, 12:05 AM
Am i the only one to Wiki this?
And i quote:
A sports car is an automobile designed for performance driving. Most sports cars are rear-wheel drive, have two seats, two doors, and are designed for precise handling, acceleration, and aesthetics. A sports car's dominant considerations can be superior road handling, braking, maneuverability, low weight, and high power, rather than passenger space, comfort, and fuel economy.
Sports cars can be either luxurious[1] or spartan, but driving mechanical performance is the key attraction. Drivers regard brand name and the subsequent racing reputation and history (for example, Ferrari, Porsche, Lotus) as important indications of sporting quality, but brands such as Lamborghini, which do not race or build racing cars, are also highly regarded.
A car may be a sporting automobile without being a sports car. Performance modifications of regular, production cars, such as sport compacts, sports sedans, muscle cars, hot hatches and the like, generally are not sports cars, yet share traits common to sports cars. Often, performance cars of all configurations are grouped as Sports and GT cars, or, occasionally, as performance cars.
A sports car does not require a large, powerful engine, though many do have them. Some classic British sports cars lacked powerful engines, but were known for exceptional handling due to light weight, a well-engineered, balanced chassis, and modern suspension. On tight, twisting roads, such an automobile performs more effectively than a heavier, more powerful luxury car with less maneuverability.
The drive train and engine layout determine the handling characteristics of an automobile, and is the point of the design of a sports car.
The front-engine, rear-wheel drive train layout (FR layout) is common to sports cars of any era. This configuration has survived longer in sports cars than in mainstream automobiles, because of performance, handling, cost, and packaging. Current examples include the Caterham 7, Mazda MX-5, and the Chevrolet Corvette.
In search of improved handling and weight distribution, other formats have been tried. The RMR layout is commonly found only in sports cars — the motor is centre-mounted in the chassis (closer to and behind the driver), and powers only the rear wheels. High-performance sports car and supercar manufacturers, such as Ferrari and Lamborghini prefer this layout. Many modern cars, especially grand tourers, also use a FMR layout, with the motor sitting between the front axle and the firewall.
Porsche is one of the few, remaining manufacturers using the rear-engine, rear-wheel drive layout (RR layout). The motor's distributed weight across the wheels, in a Porsche 911, provides excellent traction, but is not ideal, as the engine's weight is not between the two axles; the vehicle is poorly balanced, thus, many early Porsches handled twitchily. Yet, Porsche have continuously refined the design and, in recent years, combined engineering modifications and electronic driving aids (i.e. computerised traction-stability control) to counteract inherent design shortcomings.
Some sport cars have used the front-engine, front-wheel drive layout (FF), e.g. Lotus Elan M100, Fiat Coupé, Fiat Barchetta, Saab Sonett, and many Berkeley cars. This layout is advantageous for small, light, lower power sports cars, as it avoids the extra weight, increased transmission power loss, and packaging problems of a long driveshaft and longitudinal engine of FR vehicles. Yet, its conservative handling effect, particularly understeer, and the fact that many drivers believe FR is a more appropriate layout for a sports car makes this layout atypical to high-performance sports cars. The FF layout, however, is common in sport compacts and hot hatches, such as the Honda Civic Si and Type-R, the Volkswagen Golf GTi which are not necessarily sports cars.
Before the 1980s few sports cars used four wheel drive, which had traditionally added a lot of weight. Not a sports car, but the Audi Quattro, with coaxial driveshafts, proved its worth in rallying, and with the added advantage of all-weather traction ability and advantage. Four wheel drive is now common in high-powered sports cars, including Porsche, Lamborghini, and the Bugatti Veyron (currently holds the world speed record for 407 km/h (252 mph) supercar.
There's more but I cut most out
OneSlow5pt0
08-31-2007, 12:07 AM
see compacts are not sports car
but FWD can be sports car
DoriDori
10-07-2007, 08:04 PM
I think it can be. Maybe if the manufactuers intention for the car was to be a sports car.
MS3ZZ
10-08-2007, 05:56 AM
im happy my wagon actually out handles and out accelerate some of the sports cars out there stock :)
NAG2I
10-09-2007, 01:43 AM
http://youtube.com/watch?v=00UjCbxodno
for people that say fwd cars dont handle as good as rwd cars
http://youtube.com/watch?v=myJtjoJusgM
they seem to think that its a sports car
SE-Rious1
10-09-2007, 01:47 AM
SE-R autocross sport compact FTW
The Ninja
10-10-2007, 09:23 AM
Good thread content.
OneSlow5pt0
10-10-2007, 08:56 PM
http://www.moparautos.com/images/ebay%20024.jpgheres a FWD sports car
superboost
10-14-2007, 03:52 PM
http://www.moparautos.com/images/ebay%20024.jpgheres a FWD sports car
that seriously makes me want my daytona back. Man i miss it.
Leadfoot_mf
10-15-2007, 07:18 PM
okay they can be sports cars just not good ones and not one that anyone who has OWNED OR DRIVE A PROPER SPORTS CAR would want.
OneSlow5pt0
10-15-2007, 10:30 PM
okay they can be sports cars just not good ones and not one that anyone who has OWNED OR DRIVE A PROPER SPORTS CAR would want.
heey the IROC R/T was the fastest production 4cyl at the time
chituntang
10-26-2007, 04:19 AM
Sport car and sport coupe are different
NAG21 The teg wins in the video because it has a really high gear ratio, not because it has better handling. Try going 140mph on a Teg, you really cannot do it.
Logan
12-07-2007, 07:27 PM
I think to be defined a sports car, the vehicle must be RWD.
My opinion at least.
1SICKLEX
12-08-2007, 03:55 PM
The ITR pushes the boundaries but until BMW, Lexus, Benz, Audi, make their M/F/AMG/RS cars FWD and until Ferrari and Lambo and Aston and PORSCHE make FWD cars, well FWD will never be as sporty as RWD.
FWD is there for
1. Low costs
2. Better packaging
That is all.
Kaiser
12-09-2007, 06:52 PM
GTI, CRX, Del Sol (maybe), Mini Cooper, and a few others are FWD sports cars. A Integra Type R isn't, IMO. Neither is any Civic ever made,
To me, its more about the original purpose of the car. Look at the Mini Cooper or Honda CRX. 2 seats, low to the ground, great handling, etc, etc.
Don't contradict yourself please, it confuses the children.
For those of you who don't understand what I'm referring to, a CRX and a del Sol are both Civics. Honda's own description of them in fact. Don't get mad at me, get mad at Honda for being less creative with their design framework.
Also: CRX and del Sol are not STOCK "low to the ground" but I know what you mean. I'd also have to say that the CRX only handles well because of it's ridiculously shortened Civic wheelbase. It's hard to NOT steer well at low speeds with a car that short. Same reason why Jeep Wranglers have a short wheelbase. The CRX is horribly balanced though, and people who try to "lighten" them typically only make things worse.
Ronsam2006
12-12-2007, 12:36 AM
I think that FWDs can be sports car. Maybe not stock....welll some. Like the ITR, Civic type R. I would recommend a basic sports package upgrade because lets face, FWD car manufacturers dont go all out simply because it would cost $$ and if we had $$, we would go with RWD or AWD. But if some company made a well balanced FWD with the power of a 350Z, some nice tires, LSD etc....I think the price would come upto the same as a 350Z or something of that status, I think it would give cars like that a good run. Just my two cents.
p.s. I drive a FWD and sometimes it feels like turbo and FWD are the worst combos ever made.
Civic Minded
12-12-2007, 07:19 AM
l didn't read all 8 pages... but I can tell you first hand that yes, a FWD car can absolutely be a "sports" car. In fact, certain FWD cars excel in outhandling their much more expensive RWD counterparts... :goodjob:
I think the term "sports car" can be interpreted a lot of different ways. To me, reserving the term for only RWD, 2 seater cars or something similar is pretty narrow-minded.
EJ25RUN
12-14-2007, 08:59 PM
in its day this WAS a sports car and its FWD
http://www.seriouswheels.com/images/a_1937_Cord_812SC.jpg
BABY J
12-14-2007, 09:36 PM
what is it? wiki info?
bandydesign
12-15-2007, 04:24 AM
Say what you want, but one of the sportiest cars I've driven was a VW Corrado. A FWD "sports car" supercharged etc. Sports car enough for me!
Glides
12-15-2007, 09:06 AM
okay they can be sports cars just not good ones and not one that anyone who has OWNED OR DRIVE A PROPER SPORTS CAR would want.
Hmm. I had a CRX SI that could turn faster times on the Dragon than my 3rd Gen RX7 on a downhill run. Uphill the power of the FD overmatched it but downhill where the power was taken out of it more, it would turn faster times.
The difference was that you could dive into corners much harder on the CRX and pull yourself out with the FWD without fear of the rea end flying out under power and boost than with the FD. I ran with some S2000 guys on the Dragon once, in the straights they out-powered me but on the Dragon it's mostly corners so I was stuck to their collective asses the entire downhill run. Give me a Supercharger and I would have kissed them on the uphill too.
Yes, FWD cars can be sports cars. If they couldn't there wouldn't be entire racing classes for them. Give me a CRX with a fully tweaked out suspension and I will roll.
95alty
12-15-2007, 10:31 AM
I agree
JDMirza
12-15-2007, 07:51 PM
Depends on whatever you want to do, and what people feel comftorable with.
Logan
12-16-2007, 01:04 AM
When porsche makes a FWD, then I'll believe FWD can be a sportscar.
OneSlow5pt0
12-16-2007, 01:36 AM
When porsche makes a FWD, then I'll believe FWD can be a sportscar.
so a FWD Lotus isnt a sportscar?
bandydesign
12-16-2007, 02:09 AM
If the engines in the back, why the **** would they make it FWD???
I bet a Porsche drives pretty well in reverse ;)
Logan
12-16-2007, 10:32 AM
Yes a lotus elan m100 is FWD.
That means its not a "sports car".
There is a reason lotus hasn't made a FWD car since then.
If you build a "sports car" it is being built with performance in mind. FWD is not performance.
JDMirza
12-16-2007, 10:44 AM
FWD = Economic.
95alty
12-16-2007, 10:49 AM
I agree.
hellomynameiscarlos
12-16-2007, 11:13 AM
imho i this the mazdaspeed 3 is a sports car and a sexy wagon all in one same with the early 90's taurus sho's
ThaABomb
12-16-2007, 12:34 PM
TO me this statement defines a sports car perfectly. A fwd car can excel in all those things. So i say yes. A fwd car can be a sports car. Its just that you can't buy FWD sports cars, you have to build them.
I completely agree. FWD cars definitely CAN be sports cars, it's just that no car manufacturer makes FWD sports cars (although the new Civic Si and the TL Type S come pretty close).
Julio
12-16-2007, 07:00 PM
Everything now a days is a sports car!! Even my 06 4 banging solara is one also!!!
OneSlow5pt0
12-16-2007, 08:36 PM
Everything now a days is a sports car!! Even my 06 4 banging solara is one also!!!
lol......dodge daytona R/T = FWD sportcar:goodjob:
Honngodda411
12-21-2007, 09:37 PM
i definitely think it could be a sports car, however i think for drag racing rwd/awd is def better. i like fwd personally (gonna get in trouble) i think they handle better......i don't like torque steer though....i want awd...FTW
takume
12-22-2007, 08:59 AM
it really depend on how you define a "sport car". Since I have a RWD, I think it is more "sporty" than FWD. However, there are bunch of Honda guys out there with their FWD which is faster than RWD. So, I don't give a damn as long as I like the car.
87 Turbo II
01-05-2008, 07:59 AM
I say yes, but only a select few FWD cars are born sports cars out o fthe manufacturer. I also say that they need more compensation. Cars like the Mazdaspeed3 and SRT-4 have the performance to overcome their front heavy, lack of balance FWD layouts. Even enough so to beat certain modern day RWD cars.
87 Turbo II
01-05-2008, 08:00 AM
i definitely think it could be a sports car, however i think for drag racing rwd/awd is def better. i like fwd personally (gonna get in trouble) i think they handle better......i don't like torque steer though....i want awd...FTW
it's physically impossible, they use their tires to accelerate, turn and decelerate, they can't handle better, they're just easier to when something goes wrong. RWD will go faster pushed to its limit than FWD pushed to its limit, only thing is RWD is less forgiving and more diehard.
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