What is the best all motor block??

[tippatone]

I am putting a motor in my teg but i dont know which block to use. I have a B20B that i will use until i save some money to build a motor. Should i use the b20 or build an LS/VTEC i dont know which way to go, any useful input will be appriciated.

[chava_rx7]

I am putting a motor in my teg but i dont know which block to use. I have a B20B that i will use until i save some money to build a motor. Should i use the b20 or build an LS/VTEC i dont know which way to go, any useful input will be appriciated.

Just get a rotary man! you can get a whole car for like what you spend on a comple car get a first gen or second gen and for like 400 bucks you can make it as fast or faster than the car with the swap :yes: :bannana:

[SPOOLIN]

I am putting a motor in my teg but i dont know which block to use. I have a B20B that i will use until i save some money to build a motor. Should i use the b20 or build an LS/VTEC i dont know which way to go, any useful input will be appriciated.
Neither block is better than the other. Just use what you have. The gsr has some shitty oil squirters that you dont need if you are going with forged internals anyway. Hell a lot of people dont use them at all. People block them off anyway for the oil pressure.

[speedminded]

B20Z with knife edged crank & forged internals, bored out with RSX-R pistons...skunk2 stage 2 cams & valvetrain in a polished & ported b16 head. OEM/Skunk2 intake manifold. Hondata or Motec. Minimum 200whp with a flat torque curve that maxes out halfway up the rpm range...

[tippatone]

YES that is what is am talking about, good power without high rev, good

[speedminded]

YES that is what is am talking about, good power without high rev, goodIt's a strong "torquey" setup but always seem to run into cooling issues with the B20's. Seriously for the money just do a stock K20a2...more reliable with power and torque being just as good.

[sullen]

not so, my neighbor has a B20 in his civic. colling issues are non existant. the only problem was that the engine has a bad IAC so it fluctuates the idle alot. goes from like 400 rpms to 1200 rpms. he has a tendancy to stall it too, though ive never stalled it. i think he just doesnt know how to drive.

[speedminded]

not so, my neighbor has a B20 in his civic. colling issues are non existant. the only problem was that the engine has a bad IAC so it fluctuates the idle alot. goes from like 400 rpms to 1200 rpms. he has a tendancy to stall it too, though ive never stalled it. i think he just doesnt know how to drive.I'm talking about running it in a car that is run redlined for hours at a time. I base my decisions on setups that are race proven ;)

[tippatone]

I would definately put a K into my teg if i had the$$$$ those things are a arm and a leg

[sullen]

I'm talking about running it in a car that is run redlined for hours at a time. I base my decisions on setups that are race proven ;)


ill give you that if it lasts through that treatment, itll last you on the street. but in reality, you will never use the motor in that manor on any street. ever. if people used their engines that way, im sure they would have a formula 1 engine swap available. :police: :yes: i would like to see that swap someday.

[speedminded]

ill give you that if it lasts through that treatment, itll last you on the street. but in reality, you will never use the motor in that manor on any street. ever. if people used their engines that way, im sure they would have a formula 1 engine swap available. :police: :yes: i would like to see that swap someday.Seen the setup i mentioned above but with dome top itr pistons in several 13 hour endurance races: alternator problem once, a lil grinding in 5th, and a few minor kinks but never an engine issue. Talking WOT for 13 hours straight ;)

[tippatone]

I had a friend who had a B20 with a type-r head, his block had grooves in the cylinder walls, what causes that oil problem?

[speedminded]

I had a friend who had a B20 with a type-r head, his block had grooves in the cylinder walls, what causes that oil problem?The VTEC conversion was probably done incorrectly.

[tippatone]

Thats what i thought or either a problem with oil flow

[sullen]

i didnt know the b20 stood up to all that, but you gotta give it its respect. WOT 13 hours straight, thats prety hard on any engine. and for it to only have those problems, thats pretty good man.

[speedminded]

i didnt know the b20 stood up to all that, but you gotta give it its respect. WOT 13 hours straight, thats prety hard on any engine. and for it to only have those problems, thats pretty good man.ah shit my bad i screwed up, just read what i wrote...only used the b20 block with sprint races (just a few hours at a time), the endurances are with a itr/b18c5 block it and never had problems with it.

[xbn83]

H22 has a lot potential for NA, much cheaper than GSR.

[speedminded]

H22 has a lot potential for NA, much cheaper than GSR.w/ H23 block :yes: Seen a couple put out 250+whp.

[tippatone]

Oh Yeah???

[xbn83]

H22/H23VTEC+H2B+B series LSD tranny :goodjob: Your car will be fasttt and you don't spend as much as other swaps.

[Tech5]

Work in Progress

[tippatone]

Good stuff, a good high torque motor

[Mr2raceworks]

h22 sucks! one of the WORST motors Honda has put out, take that crap back to the lab

[xbn83]

Ohh really??? How so?

[josh green]

man just put a k24 from an accord off in it. They are $900 from H motors and I am sure a 5 speed from an ep3 is easy and cheap. It will have TONS for torque and pull pretty damn hard out of some turns. I remember my stock k20a2 in my eg was pretty torquey.

[tippatone]

K24 sound like alot of bread to put together

[B18CDELSLO]

h22 sucks! one of the WORST motors Honda has put out, take that crap back to the lab

you sir are a dumbass!!!:goodjob: if you knew ANYTHING at all bout h22s you wouldnt talk so much shit, if you have money to build all motor correctly i say go with h22!!! i personally like my b series for boost but the h22 has good potential

[Mr2raceworks]

tippatone, If you want it BEAST, go K24 if you have the money, all depends on your power goals.


ps: don't get an H22 LOL

[tippatone]

Mr2raceworks that is what i am planning on doing when i get my tax return for next year. can i get one for about $4000?

[Mr2raceworks]

beats me, I haven't looked in to it lately, I looked into it about 2-3 years ago and the motors were going for $6,000

[tippatone]

Yeah that has come down about $1000, i was just told if i go to cali i can get one for 4500 to 5000, man thats some heavy cash

[B18CDELSLO]

do some research, there was a company a few years discreasing the displacement of the h22 to a 2 liter and had those engines runnin over 300 to the wheels!!! and if you think 5000 is heavy cash go boost!!! 5000 in a k24 after the initial cost of the swap will make it nice all motor, 1100 for cams, 850 for good header, itbs 2500, then the lil shyt like valve springs and retainers, and then the tuning will be a nice chunk on top of it and you still didnt get into the block

[tippatone]

You aint lying dude, i think with the money i'll spend on the k i could make a serious b or h setup

[B18CDELSLO]

i got a jdm gsr in my del sol, was bout to sell my swap and go k20a but then i came to my senses!!! its just not worth it yet, in 5 more years maybe but not now. go boost on the gsr

[tippatone]

Good idea man thanks

[tippatone]

My mind is made up. I am going B16/B20 setup all motor. What compression pistons would be good for an all motor B20 bottom end?

[josh green]

You are looking at things in the wrong perspective. Think about it, you can get a stock k20a2 swap on hmotors for $4k. I would rather spend the money on a stock swap then building a inferior motor when it comes to all motor. I had a stock k20a2 swap in my eg and with a street fuel tune it made 202whp and made 115ft.lbs of torque @ 2k rpms. With the 6 speed tranny I guarantee that that car could outrun a build B series or H series. The best part about it, I could beat the shit out of it b/c it was a completely stock honda engine. I would not waste your time building a H series for all motor, they make their power from displacement. The H series engines are just big and I dont really want to cut shit off a car unless its going to be worth it and to me a H series motor isnt worth it. Yes you can make power out of them but its going to take a lot more than you think. All motor go K, boosted got B.

[SPOOLIN]

and dont fucking knife edge a honda crank, IT DOESNT "SLIVE THROUGH THE OIL FASTER" because the crank doesnt even touch the oil in the first place except for maybe a half centimeter. A virgin honda crank, is far superior than any mod you can do to it besides a simple balancing with rods and pistons.

[chunky]

YES that is what is am talking about, good power without high rev, good

LOL @ a n/a honda making good power w/o revving high.

[o_bomb]

H22/H23VTEC+H2B+B series LSD tranny :goodjob: Your car will be fasttt and you don't spend as much as other swaps.


I agree with the H series, but that h2b conversion is expensive...

[o_bomb]

and dont fucking knife edge a honda crank, IT DOESNT "SLIVE THROUGH THE OIL FASTER" because the crank doesnt even touch the oil in the first place except for maybe a half centimeter. A virgin honda crank, is far superior than any mod you can do to it besides a simple balancing with rods and pistons.



SOOOO AGREED!!!!! :yes:

[speedminded]

and dont fucking knife edge a honda crank, IT DOESNT "SLIVE THROUGH THE OIL FASTER" because the crank doesnt even touch the oil in the first place except for maybe a half centimeter. A virgin honda crank, is far superior than any mod you can do to it besides a simple balancing with rods and pistons.It's nothing to do with slicing through the oil, less weight free's the engine up and less mass on moving parts make an all motor engine a beast, just like a lightened flywheel but to a whole new level.

For turbo I wouldn't always suggest it though, you may want the extra rotational mass but that all depends on the turbo and application.

[hungry4eva]

do a K24/K20A swap :-D of course $4g's is not enough. you can find people selling built swaps too. your question was "what is best all motor block?" how could you leave out k-series in your poll?

[tippatone]

Because k-series is not in the same ballpark with the h and b series motors, if i had the bread i would not even have to ask i would have a k series on the way right now. the only b series motor that can mess with the k is a type-r which cost almost as much as a k swap

[-S Double C-]

I agree with the H series, but that h2b conversion is expensive...

Bullshit i did mine for under 2400! I was basically the founder of h2b for GA i was the first one and only one with the swap for about 4 1/2 months.

[-S Double C-]

h22 sucks! one of the WORST motors Honda has put out, take that crap back to the lab

mr2's suck take that damn shit box back to the lab! H22 is a great motor...how many b-series you see making 230whp on stock bottom ends. With just some head work and cams?! K-series yes BUT the H gives it a run for it's money! And if it's a H2B then that K is in trouble!

[tippatone]

you are so right:goodjob:

[xbn83]

mr2's suck take that damn shit box back to the lab! H22 is a great motor...how many b-series you see making 230whp on stock bottom ends. With just some head work and cams?! K-series yes BUT the H gives it a run for it's money! And if it's a H2B then that K is in trouble!

Haha :lmfao:!

[Mr2raceworks]

Plenty, get on honda-tech and don't use IA as your 100% pure source for HONDAS

Go to All Motor
then go to LS/Vtec HP Thread.....

My car doesn't look like a BOX, you are thinking of the Mk1, hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm yeahh


mr2's suck take that damn shit box back to the lab! H22 is a great motor...how many b-series you see making 230whp on stock bottom ends. With just some head work and cams?! K-series yes BUT the H gives it a run for it's money! And if it's a H2B then that K is in trouble!

[tippatone]

About how much will it cost to assemble(put pistons into)and bore a B20?

[Mr.MuayThai]

Go with my b18b1 and boost! New internals! you can't beat it! with a short geared b16 tranny! quick shit! :D

[xbn83]

About how much will it cost to assemble(put pistons into)and bore a B20?

Somewhere around $350 for fully assemble and blue print a bottom end from a machine shop. It is just labor, you provide all parts.

[tippatone]

Yeah i was going to get some CTR pistons and get a B20 if i dont an LS from someone on IA

[ash7]

Plenty, get on honda-tech and don't use IA as your 100% pure source for HONDAS

Go to All Motor
then go to LS/Vtec HP Thread.....


true true! There are many many MANY examples of lsvtecs making 250+ all motor on HT. I had built the lsvtec in my hatchback to a dyno'd (abacus racing in VA beach) 215NAwhp before i got rid of it.

and you can even take it a step further... the same company that made your H2B conversion plate (Gr33nEk9) also makes a conversion plate for a B2D swap... a slightly built lsvtec mated with a short geared D series transmission would ruin a H2Bs day.

-jonathan

[-S Double C-]

Plenty, get on honda-tech and don't use IA as your 100% pure source for HONDAS

Go to All Motor
then go to LS/Vtec HP Thread.....

My car doesn't look like a BOX, you are thinking of the Mk1, hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm yeahh

I LIVE on hondatech....not IA i see everything that goes on.

[-S Double C-]

true true! There are many many MANY examples of lsvtecs making 250+ all motor on HT. I had built the lsvtec in my hatchback to a dyno'd (abacus racing in VA beach) 215NAwhp before i got rid of it.

and you can even take it a step further... the same company that made your H2B conversion plate (Gr33nEk9) also makes a conversion plate for a B2D swap... a slightly built lsvtec mated with a short geared D series transmission would ruin a H2Bs day.

-jonathan

haha a built h-series makes 350+whp there's a shit load of them on H-T. B2D!!!!? Man the shortest d-series tranny is a ex/si tranny which those gears happen to be longer then a damn ls tranny. SOOOO why would you go b2d when there shortest geared tranny is just as long as a ls tranny?!

[IntegraXTR]

mr2's suck take that damn shit box back to the lab! H22 is a great motor...how many b-series you see making 230whp on stock bottom ends. With just some head work and cams?! K-series yes BUT the H gives it a run for it's money! And if it's a H2B then that K is in trouble!

:werd: I would have to agree on this, the h2b setup is by far superior as far as all motor goes. And it costs a fraction of the price of k-series.

As for the poll, I would vote b18c1 GSR all day long, its straight from the factory, has good power, and is very reliable. This is a good route to follow seeing how you're on a budget. b20 and LS both have the same problem, the rods are weak and neither motor can withstand high rev, in that case a little more work has to be done.

[Mr2raceworks]

LOL

You have no clue what you are talking about.
"the rods are weak and neither motor can withstand high rev" Ummm... So buy some better rods, and UMMMM UMMM get an Eagle Crank... DUH
what else you got?



:werd: I would have to agree on this, the h2b setup is by far superior as far as all motor goes. And it costs a fraction of the price of k-series.

As for the poll, I would vote b18c1 GSR all day long, its straight from the factory, has good power, and is very reliable. This is a good route to follow seeing how you're on a budget. b20 and LS both have the same problem, the rods are weak and neither motor can withstand high rev, in that case a little more work has to be done.

[SL65AMG]

well ive got a crx and im leaning towards building a b20 vtec. they make pretty decent torque and are bigger than a b18.


Plain And Simple : "Theres No Replacement For Displacement." PERIOD
and since this is all motor, turbo is out of the question. but i think a b20vtec/lsvtec turbo would be SICK!!

but i guess its what your goals are to get from the motor.

seat of your pants feel or hauling ass down the track..... but i guess that kinda goes hand in hand

i wanna build mine all motor that will make power to 10k rpm. thats my goal.... hp and tq are to be determined when im done..... prolly somewhere around 250 or so whp and 170 tq.... well see

and also be street able on pump(premium) gas

[xbn83]

well ive got a crx and im leaning towards building a b20 vtec. they make pretty decent torque and are bigger than a b18.


Plain And Simple : "Theres No Replacement For Displacement." PERIOD
and since this is all motor, turbo is out of the question. but i think a b20vtec/lsvtec turbo would be SICK!!

but i guess its what your goals are to get from the motor.

seat of your pants feel or hauling ass down the track..... but i guess that kinda goes hand in hand

i wanna build mine all motor that will make power to 10k rpm. thats my goal.... hp and tq are to be determined when im done..... prolly somewhere around 250 or so whp and 170 tq.... well see

and also be street able on pump(premium) gas

H22 2.2>2.0>1.8>1.6

[SandM]

build a k20a3... start from the ground and just go up. still got your k series for cheaper, if not just plain cheap.

[tippatone]

That K swap is too much for my pockets at this time, maybe later

[GTScoob]

Why not just call a shop that has built up several of these motors and see what their opinions are versus consulting a bunch of know-it-alls online?

If you want a serious all motor build, sell the honda and buy a 5.0 mustang or LS1 or LT1 Camaro. 300whp all motor easy with plenty of low range torque since that seems like what you want.

There's no replacement for displacement but a decently setup turbo motor can hold its own and be more reliable than an expensive built NA setup.

[KPowerEP3]

K24 2.4>2.2>2.0>1.8>1.6

fixed.

[IntegraXTR]

LOL

You have no clue what you are talking about.
"the rods are weak and neither motor can withstand high rev" Ummm... So buy some better rods, and UMMMM UMMM get an Eagle Crank... DUH
what else you got?

dude are you fukin stupid? I would stay with a OEM crank all damn day and fuking then some before I get a eagle crank. Second, I wouldnt have to rev high in a H22 to make power dumass, the h2b was designed to take the power of a H, with the revs of a B to utilize its full potential. Do some fukin research moron before you try to make a comeback.

Oh, since I don't know what I'm talking about, why don't you bring your shitbox mr2 out and find out.

[xbn83]

fixed.

He said K is out of question so....

[speedminded]

LOL

You have no clue what you are talking about.
"the rods are weak and neither motor can withstand high rev" Ummm... So buy some better rods, and UMMMM UMMM get an Eagle Crank... DUH
what else you got?The race team i crew for was sponsored by Honda, they had a Speedvision Cup Prelude championship car and Honda was shipping them new engines and parts ALL the time...constantly...for ONE car! They are weak engines in stock form, good power and torque but cannot withstand abuse like a b-series. They have to be built, and built right with little expense spared.

[Mr2raceworks]

don't let a little forum talk get your feelings hurt, start whipping that vag

[tippatone]

I will get a k motor when i get a second job, somebody said get a mustang, no offense but my first car was a ford and after that experience i said fuck ford it stand Fix Or Repair Daily Honda power all day

[ash7]

haha a built h-series makes 350+whp there's a shit load of them on H-T. B2D!!!!? Man the shortest d-series tranny is a ex/si tranny which those gears happen to be longer then a damn ls tranny. SOOOO why would you go b2d when there shortest geared tranny is just as long as a ls tranny?!

EX/Si
1st-----3.250
2nd-----1.900
3rd-----1.250
4th-----0.909
5th-----0.750 for Si HB and Del sol Si
or------0.702 for 2 dr or 4 dr sedan
Final Drive---4.250

USDM 94+ Integra LS
1st----3.230
2nd---1.900
3rd----1.269
4th----0.966
5th----0.714
Final Drive---4.266.2

just a tad longer than the LS, you're right. Let's not forget that the D series weighs a lot less, and utilizes "stubby" gears which hold up exceedingly well to abuse. Which is ideal for circuit driving.

If you're on a drag strip, then that's probably not what you'd be looking for. Because i know that you like to do 1/4 mile times...

Hondas shine the greatest on endurance circuits, where most teams use a B2D adapter plate on their B18C engines with a P20/B000 tranny utilizing ZC gears and a slightly shorter final drive.

And for the love of god man... stop making ignorant posts.

-jonathan

[patrick4588]

pwned

[tippatone]

I have 2 trannies an LS and a GSR the LS has a bad 3rd and the GSR a bad 4th, i wanted to know if the 5th gears for both is the same
EX/Si
1st-----3.250
2nd-----1.900
3rd-----1.250
4th-----0.909
5th-----0.750 for Si HB and Del sol Si
or------0.702 for 2 dr or 4 dr sedan
Final Drive---4.250

USDM 94+ Integra LS
1st----3.230
2nd---1.900
3rd----1.269
4th----0.966
5th----0.714
Final Drive---4.266.2

just a tad longer than the LS, you're right. Let's not forget that the D series weighs a lot less, and utilizes "stubby" gears which hold up exceedingly well to abuse. Which is ideal for circuit driving.

If you're on a drag strip, then that's probably not what you'd be looking for. Because i know that you like to do 1/4 mile times...

Hondas shine the greatest on endurance circuits, where most teams use a B2D adapter plate on their B18C engines with a P20/B000 tranny utilizing ZC gears and a slightly shorter final drive.

And for the love of god man... stop making ignorant posts.

-jonathan

[ash7]

I have 2 trannies an LS and a GSR... i wanted to know if the 5th gears for both is the same


The Y80 GSR transmission has a .787 fifth, whereas the S80 LS transmission has a .714 ratio.

Are you looking to swap out the gears or something?
-jonathan

[tippatone]

yeah thats what i want to do, is it worth it?
The Y80 GSR transmission has a .787 fifth, whereas the S80 LS transmission has a .714 ratio.

Are you looking to swap out the gears or something?
-jonathan

[Leadfoot_mf]

ls1

[speedminded]

Hondas shine the greatest on endurance circuits, where most teams use a B2D adapter plate on their B18C engines with a P20/B000 tranny utilizing ZC gears and a slightly shorter final drive.

And for the love of god man... stop making ignorant posts.

-jonathanOr just change the final drive ;) Swap out the 4.40 in the GS-R and USDM Type-R and put in the 4.785 or 4.9+. (You can get 5.1+ Final drives for the K-series)




A lot of people have asked us for a base example of what to expect when fitting our products, so here you are. This is based on a stock B16A2 with S4C Box (8500rpm limit, stock gear ratios, stock 4.4 FD). Note that top speed is high as this does not include Aerodynamic Drag as a factor. All speeds are Approximate but gives you a good example:

1st: 40mph
2nd: 62mph
3rd: 90mph
4th: 118mph
5th: 154mph

With 4.05 Final Drive:
1st: 44mph
2nd: 67mph
3rd: 97mph
4th: 128mph
5th: 167mph

With 4.785 Final Drive:
1st: 37mph
2nd: 57mph
3rd: 82mph
4th: 108mph
5th: 142mph

With 4.928 Final Drive:
1st: 36mph
2nd: 55mph
3rd: 80mph
4th: 105mph
5th: 137mph

With Close Ratio Gear Set:
1st: 40mph
2nd: 62mph
3rd: 77mph
4th: 94mph
5th: 131mph

With Close Ratio Gear Set + 4.05 Final Drive:
1st: 44mph
2nd: 67mph
3rd: 84mph
4th: 102mph
5th: 142mph

With Close Ratio Gear Set + 4.785 Final Drive:
1st: 37mph
2nd: 57mph
3rd: 71mph
4th: 87mph
5th: 120mph

With Close Ratio Gear Set + 4.928 Final Drive:
1st: 36mph
2nd: 55mph
3rd: 69mph
4th: 84mph
5th: 117mph

[ueyedgr8tness]

I will get a k motor when i get a second job, somebody said get a mustang, no offense but my first car was a ford and after that experience i said fuck ford it stand Fix Or Repair Daily Honda power all day


REps man i feel u i had a 96 gt with mods and sold it and got a rsx type s and loved that thing to death if i ever build a car it will be the 92 hatch with a k20:goodjob: I have alway's wanted 1:yes:

[pacman031]

franken k k20type s head on k24a block 6speed tranny wit lsd

[tippatone]

If you get a EG hatch with a k-series you will be the SHIT:goodjob:
REps man i feel u i had a 96 gt with mods and sold it and got a rsx type s and loved that thing to death if i ever build a car it will be the 92 hatch with a k20:goodjob: I have alway's wanted 1:yes:

[-S Double C-]

EX/Si
1st-----3.250
2nd-----1.900
3rd-----1.250
4th-----0.909
5th-----0.750 for Si HB and Del sol Si
or------0.702 for 2 dr or 4 dr sedan
Final Drive---4.250

USDM 94+ Integra LS
1st----3.230
2nd---1.900
3rd----1.269
4th----0.966
5th----0.714
Final Drive---4.266.2

just a tad longer than the LS, you're right. Let's not forget that the D series weighs a lot less, and utilizes "stubby" gears which hold up exceedingly well to abuse. Which is ideal for circuit driving.

If you're on a drag strip, then that's probably not what you'd be looking for. Because i know that you like to do 1/4 mile times...

Hondas shine the greatest on endurance circuits, where most teams use a B2D adapter plate on their B18C engines with a P20/B000 tranny utilizing ZC gears and a slightly shorter final drive.

And for the love of god man... stop making ignorant posts.

-jonathan

"STUBBY" hmmm if i can find the thread on H-T...a d series tranny is barley lighter then b-series and the internals are no where near as strong.

[ash7]

"STUBBY" hmmm if i can find the thread on H-T...a d series tranny is barley lighter then b-series and the internals are no where near as strong.

find it, and get back to me... because that's false info. You can find a thread on anything on HT.

D series transmissions weigh in around 70-75 lbs... B series are 95-100lbs
that twenty lbs goes a long ways when you're building a race car.

i got my information from Mark Hein, owner/driver of II Racing down in Clearwater FL who's team parcticipates in such events as VIR and numerous European Endurance events. This is the setup that they, and many others run at these courses.

-jonathan