So, I have been reading the bible and.....

[Tracy]

So far I have found lots of slavery and incest. I have also found that God promised A LOT of people the same thing, like a long line of descendents and lots of land.

I decided to read it just so i can say i have and see how it effects me. I will post my questions in here and maybe some of the bible bangers :) can help me understand.

I guess the first question is where did the women come from for Adam and Eve's boys?

[1000cckiller]

So far I have found lots of slavery and incest. I have also found that God promised A LOT of people the same thing, like a long line of descendents and lots of land.

I decided to read it just so i can say i have and see how it effects me. I will post my questions in here and maybe some of the bible bangers :) can help me understand.

I guess the first question is where did the women come from for Adam and Eve's boys?damn tracy I have to say I am seeing you in a different light now. I still love ya though.

[Tracy]

Well, contrary to what people think they know about me...I think I'm pretty smart IRL. The forums are just bullshit fun. I want to be able to defend my position on religion. I feel like I can't do that without first educating myself on what I wish to debate about. I am going to read the Quoran (Koran) and next the Torah. Also, someday I plan on having kids. I feel like it's important to be able to answer questions for them. I never had that.

[1000cckiller]

I admire you for that for real. This country is starting to slack when it comes to religion so we do need, some people to bring that subject back into focus.

[2.0civic]

I plan on reading it one day. How far along are you in it and how long have you actually been reading it?

[Tracy]

I have always considered myself Agnostic, but only because I don't know anything else. I was raised with 0 religion. I feel like you can't stand for something you know nothing about. How could I say I am Catholic or Christian or whatever until I read and relate to something?

[Tracy]

I plan on reading it one day. How far along are you in it and how long have you actually been reading it?

I'm still in Genesis and it's been about a week. I only read a few pages a day. It's a lot to understand and quite boring at this point. Lots of genealogy so far. I am reading the Contemporary Version (The New International Version). That just means it's in todays language. I also have the real Bible to cross reference...just in case something seems fishy.

[Crazy Asian]

From what I read god created them. I admit I really dont get the bible...LOL. Damn shame on me for a pastor's son. LOL

[Crazy Asian]

Just wait till you read Revelation!!! WOOOO MASS MURDER CHAOS AND DEATH ON EARTH!!! YES!!!!!

[Nissangeek]

I guess the first question is where did the women come from for Adam and Eve's boys?

The corner of MLK Jr. Dr. lol.

[quickdodge®]

and see how it effects me.

Maybe it'll affect your spelling mistakes, lolol. Good for you, Tracy for broadening your horizons. Later, QD.

[allmotoronly]

So far I have found lots of slavery and incest. I have also found that God promised A LOT of people the same thing, like a long line of descendents and lots of land.

I decided to read it just so i can say i have and see how it effects me. I will post my questions in here and maybe some of the bible bangers :) can help me understand.

I guess the first question is where did the women come from for Adam and Eve's boys?

God probably made people outside of eden. Its probably one of the many many facts that the early jews or the early catholics decided to remove from the scriptures. Im not a super bible beater, but I watch the history chanel, and the men back then liked to take parts out that had a lot to do with women, or if it contradicted anything else that they liked better.

[Killer]

that's one of those things that just kinda seems to be left out...

i mean it doesn't state that God ONLY created adam and eve... just said he created them first... so it's kinda like an understood He made more later....

that's how i look at it... but i wasn't there so...

[Incontt]

Tracy, you can add to the fairytale the parts you need to fill in. I think Santa brought them.

[5spdfrk]

that's one of those things that just kinda seems to be left out...

i mean it doesn't state that God ONLY created adam and eve... just said he created them first... so it's kinda like an understood He made more later....

that's how i look at it... but i wasn't there so...
Agreed. What you'll soon find out is that the Bible isn't in complete chronological order. There is a Bible though, that has been put in chronological order. That may be a good reference as well.

[Tracy]

that's one of those things that just kinda seems to be left out...

i mean it doesn't state that God ONLY created adam and eve... just said he created them first... so it's kinda like an understood He made more later....

that's how i look at it... but i wasn't there so...

I guess it doesn't say that he ONLY created Adam and Eve. It just weird to me that you have to fill in the blanks on something that is so concrete in people's eyes...like the bible :)

[5spdfrk]

It just weird to me that you have to fill in the blanks on something that is so concrete in people's eyes...like the bible :)

In an abstract way, that is the definition of Faith.

[Tracy]

In an abstract way, that is the definition of Faith.

Well I hate faith! :) I get what you are saying. I just think that some people take it so seriously and are so sure about "what the bible says". I mean, if we are left to fill in the blanks for some things, how are some other things so exact?

[5spdfrk]

Well I hate faith! :) I get what you are saying. I just think that some people take it so seriously and are so sure about "what the bible says". I mean, if we are left to fill in the blanks for some things, how are some other things so exact?
Filling in the blanks about where Cain and Abel's wives came from is not a big deal, and not what Christianity is founded upon. Mostly what's 100% w/o a shadow of doubt exact is the important stuff.

Although, I think many things were left vague to make us think on our own, and allow us to define our own convictions.

The term "Christian" is so widely used and abused. This causes problems in many eyes, but especially those curious about this faith that many base their entire lives on. They look at people who call themselves Christians, and see hypocrites. This pushes them away from wanting to know more. I applaud you for wanting to know all you can about every religion. You have to know both sides before you can argue for one.

[Tracy]

Filling in the blanks about where Cain and Abel's wives came from is not a big deal, and not what Christianity is founded upon. Mostly what's 100% w/o a shadow of doubt exact is the important stuff.

Although, I think many things were left vague to make us think on our own, and allow us to define our own convictions.

The term "Christian" is so widely used and abused. This causes problems in many eyes, but especially those curious about this faith that many base their entire lives on. They look at people who call themselves Christians, and see hypocrites. This pushes them away from wanting to know more. I applaud you for wanting to know all you can about every religion. You have to know both sides before you can argue for one.

You're right. It's not that big of a deal. It's just my first question. It's an immediate thing that I thought of when I read about Cain and Abel's children.

I'll have more that will be more serious, I'm sure. :)

[5spdfrk]

You're right. It's not that big of a deal. It's just my first question. It's an immediate thing that I thought of when I read about Cain and Abel's children.

I'll have more that will be more serious, I'm sure. :)
Cool, hopefully I will have some insight for you. :)

[Kelly]

I strongly suggest buying "The Message" bible. It puts it all into normal, everyday talk. Check it out :goodjob:

But yeah, I think God created others after Adam & Eve also. I'll admit that the bible can be confusing at times, especially if you weren't brought up learning it. So I hope us "Bible Thumpers" can help ya ;)

[thinkfast®]

Psalm 23 tracy. Thou shall not want

which brings me to my next thought, stop sending me lewd texts. its inappropriate.

[Tracy]

Psalm 23 tracy. Thou shall not want

which brings me to my next thought, stop sending me lewd texts. its inappropriate.


Get out of here! This is grown folks talk!

[thinkfast®]

Psalm 23 tracy. dammit woman!!

if you behave I may take you window shopping later. I wont buy you anything, but we can look.

[Jaimecbr900]

Think of the Bible as a road map.

I can tell you that 85 south is the fastest way to downtown from here. It's the straightest, the widest, the fastest. YOU may want to take a different route eventhough the destination is the same. After you get there once and figure out that going a way which has a million traffic signals, small cramped streets, and a bunch of pot holes is not as good you will then go down 85 south like I suggested the first time.

Bible doesn't tell you every minute detail about a lot of things, otherwise it be a mile thick. It does however tell you that 85 south is the quickest way to get where you wanna go. So the key is to have the "map" and to pay attention. If you do, you will see that the message that God created LIFE in the form of a man and woman is the important part (85 south ;) ) and not that it may assume incest down the road (the long way around).

Know what I mean?

The Bible is filled with everyday drama like lying, cheating, sex, laughter, crying, happy, sad, and it even has some specific instructions on how to behave. It is very confusing to read sometimes, but the overall message is the same......God gave his only son as the ultimate sacrifice to save humanity and if you believe what that means, you will be rewarded. The road map is what you need in order to get somewhere, right? Well the Bible is that road map that will tell you how to get that "reward".

[Tracy]

I get the road map parody :). I'm not sure about the whole Jesus situation, yet....but I haven't gotten there yet. So, I'll just stay neutral for now :)

[Killer]

Think of the Bible as a road map.

I can tell you that 85 south is the fastest way to downtown from here. It's the straightest, the widest, the fastest. YOU may want to take a different route eventhough the destination is the same. After you get there once and figure out that going a way which has a million traffic signals, small cramped streets, and a bunch of pot holes is not as good you will then go down 85 south like I suggested the first time.

Bible doesn't tell you every minute detail about a lot of things, otherwise it be a mile thick. It does however tell you that 85 south is the quickest way to get where you wanna go. So the key is to have the "map" and to pay attention. If you do, you will see that the message that God created LIFE in the form of a man and woman is the important part (85 south ;) ) and not that it may assume incest down the road (the long way around).

Know what I mean?

The Bible is filled with everyday drama like lying, cheating, sex, laughter, crying, happy, sad, and it even has some specific instructions on how to behave. It is very confusing to read sometimes, but the overall message is the same......God gave his only son as the ultimate sacrifice to save humanity and if you believe what that means, you will be rewarded. The road map is what you need in order to get somewhere, right? Well the Bible is that road map that will tell you how to get that "reward".

nicely put....

our preacher was saying the other day... that even if he knew there wasn't a heaven or hell, that he'd still think living by the bible would be the best way to live...

it would keep you out of trouble, you'd be a good person, we wouldn't have so many std problems, not as much crime.. all that stuff... and basically he's right. even if you don't believe in heaven or hell or God... the bible still lays down a pretty good way to live...

[BABY J]

subscribing

..

and I won't cause a ruckus (jaime - lol) unless provoked. I'm gonna make nice. :)

[3.14]

ok i'll be that guy...
i am a Christian but i don't think the Bible is this 100% factual, set-in-stone, historical document. it is a story intended to explain certain issues and themes to people. God, being omnipotent and omniscient, would probably have a hard time conversing in His dialect with a normal person. we could never comprehend the vastness or importance that way, thus the story is told like a novel, not a documentary.
more to your question...
either a) God created just Adam and Eve and thus their grandkids would all be produced through incest (possible) or God created others after Adam and Eve (also possible). the point is neither. God is trying to get you to understand He started this. all of this. whether He created monkeys that evolved into humans is not the BIG ISSUE but a trivial facet we get wrapped around.
if you keep reading you will notice lots of interesting things. people living to be 900, a guy being 'beamed up' to heaven, talking bushes, and parting seas...in my opinion, if all that happened, awesome, and if not, at least the story has been conveyed in a manner in which i can grasp (story/Bible form).
people/Christians who make a major deal out of literal translation and such are just missing the boat...take it for what it is worth, a story about God creating the earth and sacrificing His Son to save us.

[NewGen33]

God created man out of dust from the Earth. Then he decided that man should have a companion, hence the women. When Adam was asleep he took one of his ribs and proceeded to create Eve. The Bible was written by man through the words spoken to them by God. You can look at the bible as a time line constructed by God to what has happened and will happen in the days ahead. Good luck on your search for answers.

[BABY J]

Other than the fact that there WAS no sacrifice b/c he UN-SACRIFICED him a few days after sacrificing him. Woops, I'll be quiet. ;)

[Leisa]

So how is it going for you Tracy?

[man]

Other than the fact that there WAS no sacrifice b/c he UN-SACRIFICED him a few days after sacrificing him. Woops, I'll be quiet. ;)

So if I could promise to bring you back to life, you would allow me to torture and crucify you... :eek:

Plus you neglect the fact that Jesus supposedly only came back for a short while before going to heaven.

[BABY J]

^^ Actually I would. Then I could brag about it and say I did it.

[Killer]

^^ Actually I would. Then I could brag about it and say I did it.

this is not what this thread was intended for... this is not a bash christianity thread...

[Maniaç]

everything in that book is bullshit..

[Killer]

everything in that book is bullshit..

in all honesty... do you realize how childish you are??

[Maniaç]

killer, thats MY opinion, you have yours i have MINE

[Tracy]

I haven't gotten as far as I would like. I feel kind of bogged down with it. It's funny because all my life (before I started to read the Bible) I have kind of believed what some have said in here....the bible wasn't meant to be taken literally. I always believed that it was a representation of what may have happened. Kind of like "it's raining cats and dogs" and "Moses parted the Red Sea". They always seemed the same to me. The problem was, and what prompted me to start to read, that religious people always seemed to take it it very literally when I had conversations about it. I have always believed, myself, that Jesus was the son of God the same way you or I are "the son of God" not that he was ACTUALLY the son of God.

[Maniaç]

People only use the Lord as an excuse to be nice. All type of religion is nothing but a bunch of storys passed on threw generations. Fairy tails. The bible or anything you hear about "you're going to hell if you don't go to church". are all just a way for you to "act" good, stay out of trouble, ect.. Its like giving a baby some candy to make it stop crying. We all need to understand, that nothing out there is true. Show me proof, of this, so called son of god...

[Tracy]

People only use the Lord as an excuse to be nice. All type of religion is nothing but a bunch of storys passed on threw generations. Fairy tails. The bible or anything you hear about "you're going to hell if you don't go to church". are all just a way for you to "act" good, stay out of trouble, ect.. Its like giving a baby some candy to make it stop crying. We all need to understand, that nothing out there is true. Show me proof, of this, so called son of god...

I always thought the same....that it was a story or fairy tale passed down from generation to generation. Fairy tales all have a moral to the story...even most nursery rhymes have a moral.

I am a prove it to me person, as well. I never understand why I am supposed to have faith. I have had this discussion on here before. It just doesn't make sense to me that if God loves me and wants me to believe in him, then he should get to know me and know that I need proof :)

[pinoyboy]

I always thought the same....that it was a story or fairy tale passed down from generation to generation. Fairy tales all have a moral to the story...even most nursery rhymes have a moral.

I am a prove it to me person, as well. I never understand why I am supposed to have faith. I have had this discussion on here before. It just doesn't make sense to me that if God loves me and wants me to believe in him, then he should get to know me and know that I need proof :)

Thats what stuck out to me when I read this. It sounds like your priority for yourself is higher than actually seeking Him.

Hebrews 11:6
And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek Him.

If you seek him honestly, i'm sure he will speak to you again in some way. It seems like he already has done something to you for you to start reading the bible. Also, if you have more questions and your having a hard time finding them in the bible, try and find some type of bible study group you could join.

Theres probably a better way this could have been said, but I usually have a hard time explaining. I did refer to my bible and devotional book to try and find something that would help.

[Tracy]

I am being completely selfish about it. I'm reading the bible right now and next I will move onto the Koran and so on until I feel I have been "struck". If I never get to that place, then I guess I may just burn in hell:). Overall, I feel like a pretty good person and I think that's what God wants from what I am hearing and reading.

To me, what you just said is I should have faith because God says so. Awesome. That helped me have faith! :D

I do believe there is a God. I just don't know his name or whether or not I believe in the Bible entirely. So, referring me back to what the Bible says, when I have questions about what the Bible says and why I should believe doesn't answer any of my questions about the Bible. It's just like a big circle that I never get to the end of.

[pinoyboy]

I am being completely selfish about it. I'm reading the bible right now and next I will move onto the Koran and so on until I feel I have been "struck". If I never get to that place, then I guess I may just burn in hell:). Overall, I feel like a pretty good person and I think that's what God wants from what I am hearing and reading.

To me, what you just said is I should have faith because God says so. Awesome. That helped me have faith! :D

I do believe there is a God. I just don't know his name or whether or not I believe in the Bible entirely. So, referring me back to what the Bible says, when I have questions about what the Bible says and why I should believe doesn't answer any of my questions about the Bible. It's just like a big circle that I never get to the end of.

Well, I honestly think thats not the right way you will find your answer. I am sure God has a plan for you and maybe this is it, and who am I to question Him?

[Tracy]

Well, I honestly think thats not the right way you will find your answer. I am sure God has a plan for you and maybe this is it, and who am I to question Him?

Which part do you feel is not the right way? The reading of the other books?

[pinoyboy]

Which part do you feel is not the right way? The reading of the other books?

It just does not sound right to me how your telling God to prove himself to you. Were his children and He is our father.

I just started thinking about it and wondered what our reaction would be if some child demanded us for something. Maybe a better example for you, some random person or child came up to you and said you couldn't drift and for some reason there was no car around(sorry for the bad example! It sounded better in my head=P) I know I probably wouldn't handle that in the best way, but God does because He is love.

Anyways, I'm browsing through my Bible to find some parts that may be answers to your questions, instead of you just reading parts that you heard before, or is just mostly history. So far, I've found James 2:14-26

If you want, I could try to search more things if you would be interested.

[Tracy]

It just does not sound right to me how your telling God to prove himself to you. Were his children and He is our father.

I just started thinking about it and wondered what our reaction would be if some child demanded us for something. I know I probably wouldn't handle that in the best way, but God does because He is love.

Anyways, I'm browsing through my Bible to find some parts that may be answers to your questions, instead of you just reading parts that you heard before, or is just mostly history. So far, I've found James 2:14-26

If you want, I could try to search more things if you would be interested.

I'm not demanding anything. I'm just saying how I feel. I can't change how I feel right now. I am trying to and being honest with myself and with my feelings and why I am doing what I am doing seems to be the best way.

I'm interested. But what exactly are you looking for....like which question are you trying to answer?

I just feel that when I ask a question about the Bible, I don't want to be referred back to it. I want a "real" humanly interpreted answer. I want to know what other took from what the Bible says. I am already reading the Bible and I still have questions. I just don't understand how the Bible can answer my questions about the Bible that I am questioning :)

[pinoyboy]

I'm not demanding anything. I'm just saying how I feel. I can't change how I feel right now. I am trying to and being honest with myself and with my feelings and why I am doing what I am doing seems to be the best way.

I'm interested. But what exactly are you looking for....like which question are you trying to answer?

I just feel that when I ask a question about the Bible, I don't want to be referred back to it. I want a "real" humanly interpreted answer. I want to know what other took from what the Bible says. I am already reading the Bible and I still have questions. I just don't understand how the Bible can answer my questions about the Bible that I am questioning :)

hmm, I think I understand now. Its good that your reading and you should continue. It would be good for others as well as us if we knew more clearly what questions you were asking.

It looks like your original questions got answered by lots of people. I'm sure others wouldn't mind helping you with any others you may have.

[Tracy]

hmm, I think I understand now. Its good that your reading and you should continue. It would be good for others as well as us if we knew more clearly what questions you were asking.

It looks like your original questions got answered by lots of people. I'm sure others wouldn't mind helping you with any others you may have.

Yea, I really appreciate it. I haven't read much lately, like I said. I felt bogged down and needed a break. Maybe I'll read up a little today. I have a question like every page I read. :crazy:

[pinoyboy]

Yea, I really appreciate it. I haven't read much lately, like I said. I felt bogged down and needed a break. Maybe I'll read up a little today. I have a question like every page I read. :crazy:

I haven't been reading much either. I've been reading my devotions everyday, which had some verses in them, but I haven't been reading directly through. I did try to start reading through the whole bible too, but kinda stopped.

But yea, questions come up alot and it would be great to have everyones input. Also, theres another version of the bible called the message. I've only read a little, but I think it does a better job of giving examples, and I guess you could say it comes off a little more contemporary?

You can try looking the message version up or any other if you'd like on www.biblegateway.com

[Tracy]

I haven't been reading much either. I've been reading my devotions everyday, which had some verses in them, but I haven't been reading directly through. I did try to start reading through the whole bible too, but kinda stopped.

But yea, questions come up alot and it would be great to have everyones input. Also, theres another version of the bible called the message. I've only read a little, but I think it does a better job of giving examples, and I guess you could say it comes off a little more contemporary?

You can try looking the message version up or any other if you'd like on www.biblegateway.com

I am reading a contemporary version. I didn't get the message though. You are the 2nd to suggest it.


Thanks for the link.

So you have never read the entire Bible?

[pinoyboy]

I am reading a contemporary version. I didn't get the message though. You are the 2nd to suggest it.


Thanks for the link.

So you have never read the entire Bible?

No problem for the link. So far, I have not read the entire Bible. Actually, I can honestly say I don't remember the last book I read entirely. Yea I know, thats pretty sad =(

[Tracy]

No problem for the link. So far, I have not read the entire Bible. Actually, I can honestly say I don't remember the last book I read entirely. Yea I know, thats pretty sad =(

See, that is one of the confusing things to me. I am reading because I believe that: how can I stand for something I'm not educated on? Reading has got to be a big step in educating yourself on the Bible, otherwise you are just listening to others views and interpretations and not forming your own. That's why I am going to read all of the books if I can before I make a decision.

How do you know what you know? How can you believe in something you haven't really gotten to know?

[Killer]

killer, thats MY opinion, you have yours i have MINE

and that's fine...

but coming into a thread like this with the attitude you have is what is BS...

who are you to tell any of us that we're wrong?? and vice versa... you've said it countless times that it's sooooo wrong for a christian to say "I KNOW THERE IS"... yet you are always saying "I KNOW THERE ISN'T"...

[man]

It's funny cause everyone I find who openly bashes religion is always ignorant and has no real understanding of how religions work. I'm not saying if you aren't religious you're ignorant. It's just funny because the people who reject religion are 1 of 2 people:

1. Those that are truly ignorant and use extremely biased material to try to prove their point. How are you going to use examples from the Bible when you don't understand it? That's like trying to convince a physics professor that gravity doesn't exist, and you've never taken a physics course in your life.

2. Those that understand religion but choose to reject it. These are the people you never hear anything out of. This is the path that Tracy is going down and it is very respectable. Even if she finishes the Bible but rejects the religion, at least she has her facts right and understands what she is rejecting.

[BABY J]

I reject it and I understand more about it than most people who support it. Religion is the worst thing to happen to spirituality - PERIOD. To each his own though.

Whatever makes people sleep better at night for their 80 years here is fine by me, as long as it doesn't cause problems for me. ;) G/L Tracy, and if you have questions I think that studying religion (MANY, not just Christianity) in college, and having a grandad who is a preacher I am sure I can get you the answers you will need... although a lot of the answers leads to new questions. It's quite the mind fuck, but some people make it work (in part) for them. It's written in a way that you never "arrive" - u die somewhere along the way before you get there.

[man]

I would also like to add that I am not religious.

[Tracy]

2. Those that understand religion but choose to reject it. These are the people you never hear anything out of. This is the path that Tracy is going down and it is very respectable. Even if she finishes the Bible but rejects the religion, at least she has her facts right and understands what she is rejecting.

This is another reason I am reading. I like to debate (some call it arguing:)). In doing so, I like to know my shit. I just think along the way of educating myself, maybe something will make sense. If it doesn't at least I can say I tried and continue to argue my points...all while knowing my shit.

[BABY J]

^^ Thank you for correcting that - I am spiritual, but like you I am not religious either. Being spiritual leads me to teach people right, do right, and be a good steward -- NOT b/c I think there are streets of gold somewhere... but b/c it's the right thing to do.

[man]

^^ Thank you for correcting that - I am spiritual, but like you I am not religious either.

I would also like to point out that my statement was directed more towards Maniac.

[BABY J]

I know man - we're good. ;)

[Tracy]

I reject it and I understand more about it than most people who support it. Religion is the worst thing to happen to spirituality - PERIOD. To each his own though.

Whatever makes people sleep better at night for their 80 years here is fine by me, as long as it doesn't cause problems for me. ;) G/L Tracy, and if you have questions I think that studying religion (MANY, not just Christianity) in college, and having a grandad who is a preacher I am sure I can get you the answers you will need... although a lot of the answers leads to new questions. It's quite the mind fuck, but some people make it work (in part) for them. It's written in a way that you never "arrive" - u die somewhere along the way before you get there.

Thanks :)

This is also one of my points when I say I am generally a good person and I think God is fine with that. That's what makes me feel ok about religion and how I have handled it. I have my complete view on what I think is true. It's a mix of things that just make common sense TO ME. It would be cool to pick up a book that verified what I believe in my heart...I don't expect it to happen, but it would be nice. I sleep just fine, Bible or not :)

[Killer]

fcman repped.... great post man...

[pinoyboy]

See, that is one of the confusing things to me. I am reading because I believe that: how can I stand for something I'm not educated on? Reading has got to be a big step in educating yourself on the Bible, otherwise you are just listening to others views and interpretations and not forming your own. That's why I am going to read all of the books if I can before I make a decision.

How do you know what you know? How can you believe in something you haven't really gotten to know?

Your right about that 100%. I should be reading the bible daily. I'll start reading a chapter or two after I do my devotion.

I know there is a couple verses somewhere that says to memorize scriptures so that you know what you really believe in and that help you overcome temptation.

I'll post when I can find them

[green91]

The interesting thing is most overly religious people do this exact same thing also




1. Those that are truly ignorant and use extremely biased material to try to prove their point. How are you going to use examples from the Bible when you don't understand it? That's like trying to convince a physics professor that gravity doesn't exist, and you've never taken a physics course in your life.

[ISAtlanta300]

^^ Thank you for correcting that - I am spiritual, but like you I am not religious either. Being spiritual leads me to teach people right, do right, and be a good steward -- NOT b/c I think there are streets of gold somewhere... but b/c it's the right thing to do.

What makes the right thing to do, the right thing to do? Maybe the right thing to do is to just jump on every female and have sex with them... that's how it happens in the animal world anyways.. and according to many.. we evolved from animals.... :)

Surely the 'right thing to do' must have be influenced from somewhere.. a rule, a mantra, a guideline, a teaching..... call it if you will...., but definitely not a 'theory'....

don't get me wrong, I think it is very honorable what you are doing, but religion is not that far off in its teachings. It is based on the same principles of 'good', and 'doing the right thing', adding only the component of an omnipotent God.

[Tracy]

What makes the right thing to do, the right thing to do? Maybe the right thing to do is to just jump on every female and have sex with them... that's how it happens in the animal world anyways.. and according to many.. we evolved from animals.... :)

Surely the 'right thing to do' must have be influenced from somewhere.. a rule, a mantra, a guideline, a teaching..... call it if you will...., but definitely not a 'theory'....

don't get me wrong, I think it is very honorable what you are doing, but religion is not that far off in its teachings. It is based on the same principles of 'good', and 'doing the right thing', adding only the component of an omnipotent God.

We ARE part of the animal kingdom.

[The Ren]

interesting..

[BABY J]

What makes the right thing to do, the right thing to do? Maybe the right thing to do is to just jump on every female and have sex with them... that's how it happens in the animal world anyways.. and according to many.. we evolved from animals.... :)

Surely the 'right thing to do' must have be influenced from somewhere.. a rule, a mantra, a guideline, a teaching..... call it if you will...., but definitely not a 'theory'....

don't get me wrong, I think it is very honorable what you are doing, but religion is not that far off in its teachings. It is based on the same principles of 'good', and 'doing the right thing', adding only the component of an omnipotent God.

What I should have said - is doing what I feel is right - Mormans think that it's right to have multiple wives. Extreme Islamics think it's right to blow up people in a busy market. Extreme christians feel it's right to connect EVERY decision of their life to God, when he CLEARLY made us the "smartest" species on this planet. And as far as animals go, look around. It's not a free for all - animals "court" and "win" their mates just like we do - it's not instant ass for every cow in the pasture and bird in the sky.

You can't say "religion is based off of everything that is 'good'", b/c there are MANY religions. And that's why I say that religion is the worst thing to happen to spirituality - there are more people dead b/c of religion than anything else you can name - yeah... how holy is that? LOL.

I am not saying that there is no God - what I will say that in my opinion, we have missed the whole ship on what we are supposed to be doing here. People kneel down beside their bed saying "oh God help the starving" and then run to their fridge and throw out a gallon of milk just b/c it's getting close to the expiration date. They kneel down and say "oh God, bless the homeless", yet an entire room of their 3BR house is dedicated to storing old porn mags and "unused" furniture. If there is a God (in my mind), he is looking down and saying "what a worthless heap of shit I have created." I have given them the best of ALL creatures that I have created, yet they ask for more from ME. I have given them EVERY tool at their reach if they would just reach at it, yet they reach their hands UP to me, when they should be reaching their arms OUT to each other. The less traveled you are... the less you have seen in the world, the easier it is to believe that there is a God and gold streets and a heaven waiting for you.

Slowly but surely, people all over the world are getting "out" of "religion". They are realizing that their 80 years on Earth is likely the best life they will ever have - there is no proof otherwise. With this mentality, it FORCES you to treat people right the FIRST time around - b/c there is no "repenting" to a non-existing God later. It FORCES you to do the right thing the 1st time, and not use "well, God knows my heart/intentions" cop-out when you make bad choices. W/ no God (or God as it is taught) there is no WMD - no war.

I do hope that every1 finds whatever it is you are lookinf for in life - what a waste to spend your whole life following/looking, but still not being able to answer the most basic questions for yourself or your friends. GOod day.

http://www.importatlanta.com/forums/showpost.php?p=34714035&postcount=81

and

http://www.importatlanta.com/forums/showpost.php?p=34774558&postcount=26

[Tracy]

What I should have said - is doing what I feel is right - Mormans think that it's right to have multiple wives. Extreme Islamics think it's right to blow up people in a busy market. Extreme christians feel it's right to connect EVERY decision of their life to God, when he CLEARLY made us the "smartest" species on this planet. And as far as animals go, look around. It's not a free for all - animals "court" and "win" their mates just like we do - it's not instant ass for every cow in the pasture and bird in the sky.

You can't say "religion is based off of everything that is 'good'", b/c there are MANY religions. And that's why I say that religion is the worst thing to happen to spirituality - there are more people dead b/c of religion than anything else you can name - yeah... how holy is that? LOL.

I am not saying that there is no God - what I will say that in my opinion, we have missed the whole ship on what we are supposed to be doing here. People kneel down beside their bed saying "oh God help the starving" and then run to their fridge and throw out a gallon of milk just b/c it's getting close to the expiration date. They kneel down and say "oh God, bless the homeless", yet an entire room of their 3BR house is dedicated to storing old porn mags and "unused" furniture. If there is a God (in my mind), he is looking down and saying "what a worthless heap of shit I have created." I have given them the best of ALL creatures that I have created, yet they ask for more from ME. I have given them EVERY tool at their reach if they would just reach at it, yet they reach their hands UP to me, when they should be reaching their arms OUT to each other. The less traveled you are... the less you have seen in the world, the easier it is to believe that there is a God and gold streets and a heaven waiting for you.

Slowly but surely, people all over the world are getting "out" of "religion". They are realizing that their 80 years on Earth is likely the best life they will ever have - there is no proof otherwise. With this mentality, it FORCES you to treat people right the FIRST time around - b/c there is no "repenting" to a non-existing God later. It FORCES you to do the right thing the 1st time, and not use "well, God knows my heart/intentions" cop-out when you make bad choices. W/ no God (or God as it is taught) there is no WMD - no war.

I do hope that every1 finds whatever it is you are lookinf for in life - what a waste to spend your whole life following/looking, but still not being able to answer the most basic questions for yourself or your friends. GOod day.

http://www.importatlanta.com/forums/showpost.php?p=34714035&postcount=81

and

http://www.importatlanta.com/forums/showpost.php?p=34774558&postcount=26


Amen!!!!!111111111!!!!!

*bold - definitely something to think about ;)

[Tracy]

I just read your links. You think just like me. Why did you study religion?

[The Ren]

I can attest to that... Scott isnt jewish.. I have been disowned by most of my family.. my dad hasnt spoken to me in 3 1/2 years.. but to me.. he is the one i love.. the one i wanna wake up with...

[BABY J]

I grew up in a religious family. My grandad is the pastor of a Baptist church in Griffin. I grew up singing in the choir, playing bass/drums. As I got older - I chose a non-denominational church (Creflo Dollar Jr.) and would only help (play bass) my gramps when I could. There is one standard theme I think - and that is to "faith away" parts of 'religon' that can't be understood - and that was not good enough for me. I do LOVE the teachings of the bible (no all of the bible is something you want to share w/ your kids though) - HOWEVER, devout Christians (IMO) are a product of their environment. If they were born in Iraq, chances are they would be Islamic. If you were born/raised in China, chances are you'd be Buddhist. People run around saying "I am Presbyterian" - but if you ask them "why not Lutheran" they could not tell you 1) what a Lutheran is, or 2) what a Presbyterian is - or how they differ.

So in order for me to choose, I gathered as much information as I could - something that a lot of Christians don't/haven't done. You are doing the right thing by educating yourself before you make what I think is a very personal choice for your life. Don't be some1 that does something, but doesn't know why. Once you start studyung religion - REALLY studying it, you find out that there are more similarities than there are differences... yet Christians seem to be the most arrogant of them all (IMO).

Good luck.

[BABY J]

I can attest to that... Scott isnt jewish.. I have been disowned by most of my family.. my dad hasnt spoken to me in 3 1/2 years.. but to me.. he is the one i love.. the one i wanna wake up with...

Imagine that - "love conquers all - as long as they are both Jewish". What a mind fuck. Religion/religious people are such hypocrites sometimes. But so is every1 else. The most articulate person I know that supports it on IA is Jaime... we have a love/love relationship and I ebjoy everytime we talk - bc we both get our points across and we still respect each other.

[The Ren]

I'm not saying that I don't believe in my religon.. This is alot of things in my religon im 100% aggreance on, but there are alot im not. In this day in age its not always easy finding someone you love unconditionally and who love you back the same.. and why not hold on to that when you find it you know?

[revsk8erdude]

well im atheist, so nothing applies to me. YAY!

so basically i could run someone over, and not feel bad about it, or have to worry about going to hell. LOL!

[ISAtlanta300]

Imagine that - "love conquers all - as long as they are both Jewish". What a mind fuck. Religion/religious people are such hypocrites sometimes. But so is every1 else. The most articulate person I know that supports it on IA is Jaime... we have a love/love relationship and I ebjoy everytime we talk - bc we both get our points across and we still respect each other.

But see, i think you are probably confusing religion as a group, 'clique' or 'sect' or just being RELIGIOUS in that you believe in God. In my example, I don't tithe. I don't go to church (but i was raised a catholic). I don't believe in the Pope. But yet I consider myself a religious person because i believe in God.....

It's interesting because me and my fiancee were talking about it. She was not raised in any religion. I was raised a catholic. Yet, we have basically the same views on God.

Indeed I agree with you that the true danger is from the fanatics that would not dare question their religion, and seek out answers for themselves or do their research. I did, (still doing it as a matter of fact) and hence i have a basis or opinion in what i believe it. I may be wrong, or i may be right. In the end there will be only one answer though.

There are a lot of thing that i know that I am not certain about, but I know that in the end lest i be judged, I be judged for my deeds and not my denomination.

[OneSlow5pt0]

y is that native americans and medevil people talk a bout dinosaurs but the bible doesnt..

but it does talk bout unicorns in the bible

[BABY J]

But see, i think you are probably confusing religion as a group, 'clique' or 'sect' or just being RELIGIOUS in that you believe in God. In my example, I don't tithe. I don't go to church (but i was raised a catholic). I don't believe in the Pope. But yet I consider myself a religious person because i believe in God.....

It's interesting because me and my fiancee were talking about it. She was not raised in any religion. I was raised a catholic. Yet, we have basically the same views on God.

Indeed I agree with you that the true danger is from the fanatics that would not dare question their religion, and seek out answers for themselves or do their research. I did, (still doing it as a matter of fact) and hence i have a basis or opinion in what i believe it. I may be wrong, or i may be right. In the end there will be only one answer though.

There are a lot of thing that i know that I am not certain about, but I know that in the end lest i be judged, I be judged for my deeds and not my denomination.

I assure you that I am not confused - I use terms that most will "get" on this forum. ;) As far as you and your fiance are concerned - tell me what you think of this verse:

2 Corinthians 6:14/ (King James Version)

How far does this verse reach out to YOU?? How far should followers take it? Just a thought - and I want your input.

[Tracy]

I assure you that I am not confused - I use terms that most will "get" on this forum. ;) As far as you and your fiance are concerned - tell me what you think of this verse:

2 Corinthians 6:14/ (King James Version)

How far does this verse reach out to YOU?? How far should followers take it? Just a thought - and I want your input.


great! Now I have to go read that...if i can ever find it! :)

[BABY J]

updates?

[Tracy]

I am going to start it back up this weekend. I have a flight somewhere, so it should be a good time. i have had a lot going on recently with all of the end of the year stuff...and I got a little bogged down with genesis. I think I am going to skip ahead for a minute. All of this lineage is boring.

[Glides]

So far I have found lots of slavery and incest. I have also found that God promised A LOT of people the same thing, like a long line of descendents and lots of land.

I decided to read it just so i can say i have and see how it effects me. I will post my questions in here and maybe some of the bible bangers :) can help me understand.

I guess the first question is where did the women come from for Adam and Eve's boys?

Amazing how there are no real answers to this, the most simple problem of creation. Looks like Eve was a little worn out for the first 17 years or so.

Just know that religion pretty much boils down to this: You either worship god and no others, or you burn in hell for eternity. Religion of fear.

[ahabion]

Tracy, I'm glad you are taking your steps into educating yourself. I would recommend skipping around from book to book so you don't get so bored. Especially in the Old Testament... lots of history, boring geneology... skip around...

For me, when I read a good book in the Bible, I'd ask myself, "What happened before hand?" so that prompted me to read the book before it or after... to read it straight thru is quite a feat and one could get very worn/burnt out very fast... find something that interests you... I like war movies... so I went to Kings and Chronicles and read about exactly that... war!

You really don't need to read the entire Bible to understand what its ment for. It is a historical book, regardless of what ppl say. Its a compilation of different books put into a singular, chronological form. In fact, there are more books out there that are not in the Bible and yes, it was written by man and many different men contributed to the Bible (some of which, men deemed not important enough to add to the Bible)... but it all leads to the same thing and they all foretell the same prophecy to come. Which is the New Testament...

an analogy I like to make for the Bible is this:

You have a thousand white tiles and only a couple of red tiles... all of which are face down... what is the likelihood that for every tile you pick it, it happens to be the red tiles? (white representing the stories/books/scrolls written by different authors and men, red representing the stories/books/scrolls written by different authors and men but telling of the same story)

Not sure if that makes sense... but find the answers for yourself and come back with your questions. Tho i know you hate faith, the only person that will every truley understand it, is yourself. It is really up to you to question your faith and then find the answer to your questions by researching it yourself. What someone says about God and Jesus should not be taken as gospel, but one should always research into it yourself... so you can find the true meaning for yourself...

[Tracy]

Tracy, I'm glad you are taking your steps into educating yourself. I would recommend skipping around from book to book so you don't get so bored. Especially in the Old Testament... lots of history, boring geneology... skip around...

For me, when I read a good book in the Bible, I'd ask myself, "What happened before hand?" so that prompted me to read the book before it or after... to read it straight thru is quite a feat and one could get very worn/burnt out very fast... find something that interests you... I like war movies... so I went to Kings and Chronicles and read about exactly that... war!

You really don't need to read the entire Bible to understand what its ment for. It is a historical book, regardless of what ppl say. Its a compilation of different books put into a singular, chronological form. In fact, there are more books out there that are not in the Bible and yes, it was written by man and many different men contributed to the Bible (some of which, men deemed not important enough to add to the Bible)... but it all leads to the same thing and they all foretell the same prophecy to come. Which is the New Testament...

an analogy I like to make for the Bible is this:

You have a thousand white tiles and only a couple of red tiles... all of which are face down... what is the likelihood that for every tile you pick it, it happens to be the red tiles? (white representing the stories/books/scrolls written by different authors and men, red representing the stories/books/scrolls written by different authors and men but telling of the same story)

Not sure if that makes sense... but find the answers for yourself and come back with your questions. Tho i know you hate faith, the only person that will every truley understand it, is yourself. It is really up to you to question your faith and then find the answer to your questions by researching it yourself. What someone says about God and Jesus should not be taken as gospel, but one should always research into it yourself... so you can find the true meaning for yourself...

I read what you are saying. I also have faith...just a different kind. Its not the same as the people who say if you don't believe in god, you are going to hell :) I am also pretty spiritual. I just hate the word religion. It adds such a stigma to me. In the end, I think I am doing exactly what you are getting at and I think I am already at the place you are talking about. I just feel like everyone says it's wrong because I look at it all differently. I get the point, and always have, that the Bible is supposed to be a "story". It just seems that whenever I get into the "religion" discussion with someone, they are so SURE that their belief if gospel :). Common sense wise, I know I don't have to question every detail of the Bible. I know there are things left out and for us to figure out. I also know that I need to read in order to have my own arguments and grounds for my beliefs. Right now I am just going on "faith"...how ironic is that? It just happens to be my own version of faith.

[ahabion]

yours and yours alone is the only faith that you will ever need. Your faith is what you call your own...

Faith in yourself, faith in your car, faith in whatever you need to make you feel satisfied about life. But its YOUR faith... no one elses.

[GIXXERDK]

The bible is full of mistakes, just like our history books.

[Glides]

The Bible is a novel, just like Harry Potter, The Wizard of Oz and any other fantasy novel out there.

If you were to destroy all literature and 1000 years from now a Harry Potter book was found, he would be the new Jesus Christ. That's just how people are. They need to know that they are the center of things and that there is something waiting for them after death so that they don't lose all hope in life. Without that, the weak minded will fail.

[Tracy]

The Bible is a novel, just like Harry Potter, The Wizard of Oz and any other fantasy novel out there.

If you were to destroy all literature and 1000 years from now a Harry Potter book was found, he would be the new Jesus Christ. That's just how people are. They need to know that they are the center of things and that there is something waiting for them after death so that they don't lose all hope in life. Without that, the weak minded will fail.

This is how I have always felt.

[ahabion]

The Bible is a novel, just like Harry Potter, The Wizard of Oz and any other fantasy novel out there.

If you were to destroy all literature and 1000 years from now a Harry Potter book was found, he would be the new Jesus Christ. That's just how people are. They need to know that they are the center of things and that there is something waiting for them after death so that they don't lose all hope in life. Without that, the weak minded will fail.

Even if you did destroy all literature, there is no record to verify that Harry Potter ever existed. Even so, it is natural for people to question the world around them and when science can not prove anything as factual, they rule it out.

In contrast, many of the biblical historic events have been proven and accounted for by various authors of different cultures. The Ark was founded in the mountains of Turkey, documented by several cultures and religions. Different cultures have similar accounts of the life of Moses. List goes on and on....

But IF all literature was destroyed... not sure what would happen... no Bill of Rights or Doc of Independence... no more laws to bind us... no more Shakespear or even Playboy/Hustler... that would be an interesting movie... Lets just hope everything gets scanned and filed in a computer somewhere hehe.

[Glides]

Even if you did destroy all literature, there is no record to verify that Harry Potter ever existed. Even so, it is natural for people to question the world around them and when science can not prove anything as factual, they rule it out.

In contrast, many of the biblical historic events have been proven and accounted for by various authors of different cultures. The Ark was founded in the mountains of Turkey, documented by several cultures and religions. Different cultures have similar accounts of the life of Moses. List goes on and on....

But IF all literature was destroyed... not sure what would happen... no Bill of Rights or Doc of Independence... no more laws to bind us... no more Shakespear or even Playboy/Hustler... that would be an interesting movie... Lets just hope everything gets scanned and filed in a computer somewhere hehe.

By dammit, I like you buddy. Even though we are on opposite sides of the whole science/spiritual thing, you are a good debater. Almost a Masterdebater. HA. :)

[bu villain]

Thanks :)

This is also one of my points when I say I am generally a good person and I think God is fine with that. That's what makes me feel ok about religion and how I have handled it. I have my complete view on what I think is true. It's a mix of things that just make common sense TO ME. It would be cool to pick up a book that verified what I believe in my heart...I don't expect it to happen, but it would be nice. I sleep just fine, Bible or not :)

First off I want to say I am always happy to see people who ask "Why do I believe this" and to search for truth. I was agnostic for many years until I really started studying religion and philosophy more in depth which has now led me to atheism. Who knows, maybe in 10 years I will believe in God. The important thing is to never stop asking questions and learning. Anyways...

What I found particularly interesting about your post above is that you seem to be very comfortable with your beliefs and actions but yet you are looking for a book to affirm you. Why are you looking for agreement from a book? Do you feel that your beliefs are any more or less valid because someone else wrote them down on paper? I completely support reading religious writings but I am just wondering what you are hoping to find and what would you do differently if you find what you are looking for. Good luck with your search.

[ahabion]

By dammit, I like you buddy. Even though we are on opposite sides of the whole science/spiritual thing, you are a good debater. Almost a Masterdebater. HA. :)

:cheers:

[BuBBa DRiFT]

i think the bible may be flawed a little through the times and constant revisions. not to mention people tend to embellish just a tad. but good for you, hows the shop, and pepe/lupe doing?

[Tracy]

First off I want to say I am always happy to see people who ask "Why do I believe this" and to search for truth. I was agnostic for many years until I really started studying religion and philosophy more in depth which has now led me to atheism. Who knows, maybe in 10 years I will believe in God. The important thing is to never stop asking questions and learning. Anyways...

What I found particularly interesting about your post above is that you seem to be very comfortable with your beliefs and actions but yet you are looking for a book to affirm you. Why are you looking for agreement from a book? Do you feel that your beliefs are any more or less valid because someone else wrote them down on paper? I completely support reading religious writings but I am just wondering what you are hoping to find and what would you do differently if you find what you are looking for. Good luck with your search.

There is a mixed answer for this for me. I probably am kind of looking for something. I'm not completely sure what it is. I do know that I am afraid to die. It has scared me since I was little. Dan says it's because I have no faith. I also know that I am ready to start THINKING about kids. I need to figure out how to answer their questions (if and when they have them) and that means I have to be educated. That is important to me.

I already said this one, but I like to argue, as you well know :). That being said, I like to be educated on what I am arguing about. Right now, I only know the bits and pieces of the Bible that I have heard around the camp fire. I can't have a valid argument with facts and examples if I don't read. Religion seems to come up often (along with politics and I am going to learn that next :D).

[JDMirza]

The Bible is a novel, just like Harry Potter, The Wizard of Oz and any other fantasy novel out there.

If you were to destroy all literature and 1000 years from now a Harry Potter book was found, he would be the new Jesus Christ. That's just how people are. They need to know that they are the center of things and that there is something waiting for them after death so that they don't lose all hope in life. Without that, the weak minded will fail.
Very well explained. I have quiet a few words I would like to add myself. People in this world are lucky to suffer the things that we experience once, and for all. They don't realize that when you suffer, you become stronger and stronger, but if you doubt yourself you will become weaker, and more weaker. You will never accomplish something if you have no hope. Suffering has become a great potential in this world. We as human beings IRL need to treat each other how we want to be treated. It's not necessarily based on religion, but we were given a perfect present in which we call a "life" from God, who expects us to make the best out of it. That is to obtain the pursuit of happiness in which ever way we go.

[bu villain]

There is a mixed answer for this for me. I probably am kind of looking for something. I'm not completely sure what it is. I do know that I am afraid to die. It has scared me since I was little. Dan says it's because I have no faith. I also know that I am ready to start THINKING about kids. I need to figure out how to answer their questions (if and when they have them) and that means I have to be educated. That is important to me.

You are afraid to die because you do not know what comes next. It is natural for people to be afraid of the unknown. And your friend Dan may be right. If you have "faith" that you will go to heaven then you will feel better about death. Unfortunately, simply believing something because it makes you feel better does not make it true. As far as kids go, it's good that you want to be able to educate them and you should persue that. If you think reading the bible will help then thats great. Just remember that just because it is written in a book doesn't make it true (doesn't make it false either) and no parent has all the answers to everything. Its okay to tell your child that you don't always know the answer to all their questions. Be honest with them.

[NAG2I]

your doing an awesome thing, something i've never done and im am a believer in God and jesus. i don't call myself a christian i stopped doing that when i was pretty young.
i was raised baptist and started going to a non-denominational church when i was pretty young. fearing death is something nobody should have to do. i think you will find what your looking for eventually, you are definatly doing the right thing.
that was pretty scattered just trying to help if i can at all.

[zone911]

I spend a lot of time on this site but I very rarely ever post. The majority of the time I only post to buy or sell something. Occasionally though I read a post that interests me enough to post something. Well this is one of those posts.

Tracy, I’ll be honest with you I didn’t read all five pages( I read 1-3) because I became disgusted with the ridiculous arguments and unbelievable responses. I am very open minded, I have studied all major religions and about half of the smaller religions that I know of. I have studied the historical authenticity of both the Christian Bible, the Mormon Bible, The Koran, The Torah, The Dead Sea Scrolls, and other various religious books. I have studied Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, and Latin. I’m currently learning early and late Egyptian. So allow me to identify what I will and will not respond to.

I will respond to questions(any and all, even questions concerning apparent contradictions) but I will not argue with anyone.

First let me clarify a few major misconceptions, the Bible never teaches a “blind faith” that just accepts things. I will admit a lot of churches as well as pastors have the nerve to say, “you just have to accept it, that’s just the way it is.” My personal beliefs are built rationally not irrationally “just because.” While many Christians hold that weak view, the Bible never teaches it.

I noticed you asked a question concerning the wives of the sons of Adam and Eve. I noticed several people responded with a separate creation answer. A separate creation answer would sound something like this, “the Bible says Adam and Eve were he first people God created but, that doesn’t mean they were the only people He created.” That misconception started when, what we currently know now as the United States of America was discovered and the explorers saw “red men who were savaged and unclothed.” For Christians at the time that was a major problem because the color of the people were so different it meant there must have been a separate creation.

Let me be the first to say there was not a separate creation and that belief actually contradicts what scripture teaches.

My answer is simply this, Genesis 5:4
"And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters. "

Adam and Eve had many sons and daughters not only Cain and Abel and Seth.

The Bible teaches everyone who is currently in existence came from Adam and Eve so the wives of Cane and Abel where more children of Adam and Eve.



Also the “Message Bible,” by Eugene Peterson I reject as scripture. Peterson in an interview was asked “How much should people read the Bible?” his astonishing response “ Well people don’t really need to read it, only know a few of the basics.” To me, that doesn’t sound like someone who was called by God to interpret scripture for people to read and be able to understand.



Also I have multiple example of how the message has completely misinterpreted scripture and completely changed the message of the scripture.

I am willing to answer and help in any ways possible.


Here’s a fact for you that may be of some interest. The Nelson King James version as well as the Nelson New King James version is 99.6% accurate to the original manuscripts which were all completed by year 90-100 ad.

Also I am willing to discuss issues on the theories of creation including evolution.



Matt

[Maniac1]

zone911, I had a small discussion about evolution here ----> http://www.importatlanta.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151798 . The subject doesn't arise til the end. But if you have time to read up on the thread, im sure you'll find something that'll get you in the mood to post.

[Glides]

The Bible teaches everyone who is currently in existence came from Adam and Eve so the wives of Cane and Abel where more children of Adam and Eve.



You had my interest until that. If that is true, and it has to be because it came from the Bible, then we would all have multiple eyes, birth defects and many other ailments because science has proven that you dip into your own gene pool too many times, crazy stuff starts happening. So I think about the 3rd generation of Adam and Eve's kids' screwing each other we would have had some X-files going on.

I don't believe in the Bible or religion. The Bible is a book, a book written a long time ago as maybe a history book but a book none the less. It is a work of fictional non fiction. Meaning it has dates and places that coincide with history but it is filled with magic and miracles that we know as smart and intelligent people are simply impossible.

Religion is the way for people to do bad things and be forgiven for them. Killing in the name of religion, sinning and asking for forgiveness only to sin again. Many many more act's of violence or sheer hatred are commited in the name of religion to this day.

God is not the bible, God is not religion. You don't need either of them to have a relationship with God. If you feel that you do, you are misinformed and weak minded.