I think the Police are more at fault than the gunman

[Cliff]

LOS ANGELES - A toddler was shot and killed when her father used her as a shield in a gunbattle with police following an hours-long standoff, officials said. The man also died and an officer was wounded.

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The man killed Sunday night after an hours-long standoff was identified as Jose Raul Lemos, and the girl, about 17 months old, was his daughter, police said. The officer, who was not immediately identified, was shot in the shoulder and was expected to recover.

"He was using the baby as a shield," Assistant Police Chief Jim McDonnell said.

"We showed a tremendous amount of restraint, but unfortunately the suspect's actions dictated this," he said. "It's a true tragedy."

The child's mother, Lorena Lopez, said she pleaded with officers to hold their fire.

"He had problems with depression, his business was not doing well," Lopez told KNBC-TV. "I told them that he needed help, he needs a psychologist, but please don't shoot. They didn't understand, and the police fired, like, 300 shots."

It was unclear who fired the shot that hit the girl, but officers were struggling with the thought that they killed a baby, McDonnell said.

"The officers are taking it very hard," he said. "Anytime you have a baby killed, it takes its toll."

The standoff began at around 3:50 p.m. when officers responded to an area in South Los Angeles west of Watts after residents reported an armed man standing near an intersection with a toddler and behaving erratically and aggressively.

There were three exchanges of gunfire between police and Lemos, who was about 35, McDonnell told reporters. In the final exchange, at around 6:20 p.m., Lemos held the girl as he shot.

"We did everything we could to hold our fire," McDonnell said.

At one point, Lemos retreated into an apartment building, where police said he held the girl hostage.

Police called in a SWAT team and tried to speak with the man; when they at one point attempted to help a neighbor escape the area, he fired at them and they fired back, McDonnell said.

Under police regulations, officers may only fire "when it reasonably appears necessary" to protect themselves or others from death or serious injury.

The man had a 9 mm handgun and a shotgun and was intoxicated on drugs and alcohol, police said.

[Bishop]

Damn, thats unfortunate

[HyPer50]

I kind of understand what your saying... but how can the police be more at fault than the gunman? The father was using his own daughter as a human shield... It can't get much worse than that.

[Cliff]

they are more at fault because i don't care if he is holding guns or not if the man is holding a 17 month old child in front of him you don't just say "well boys i guess well just have to go through the baby to get him!" they should have ceased fire as soon as they found the baby was in the room and not even began to fire again until the baby has safely been removed....remove hostages then worry about the gunman

[SniperJoe]

Why the hell didn't they bring in the snipers on the SWAT team to take this guy out? The LAPD has one of the best SWAT teams in the world with world-class snipers that could have easily ended this in one well-aimed shot vs. a barrage of poorly placed shots from normal police officers.

[Cliff]

another scenario i thought woulda been better than just shooting up the guy and the kid

[Bishop]

They dont know who shot the kid.....read the article...i just read the paper out here and it says "its unclear who shot the kid".

[Ruiner]

Read this, Cliff, as you aren't getting the full story of why they shot him. Look at the bolded text below:


According to police, Lemos fired at police several times over the next several hours before he ran out of the house -- first firing indiscriminately, then directly at officers, hitting one in the shoulder.

At that point, police opened fire on the man, believed to be in his mid-30s.

"We did everything we could to hold our fire. We showed a tremendous amount of restraint, but unfortunately the suspect's actions dictated this," said Los Angeles Assistant Police Chief Jim McDonnell. "It's a true tragedy."

Although the 19-month-old baby died of a gunshot wound, police did not immediately know if the bullet came from police or the man holding her.

"The officers are taking it very hard," McDonnell said. "Anytime you have a baby killed, it takes its toll."

The wounded officer is in stable condition, police said.

[Ruiner]

Why the hell didn't they bring in the snipers on the SWAT team to take this guy out? The LAPD has one of the best SWAT teams in the world with world-class snipers that could have easily ended this in one well-aimed shot vs. a barrage of poorly placed shots from normal police officers.

Read...


Police called in a SWAT team and tried to speak with the man; when they at one point attempted to help a neighbor escape the area, he fired at them and they fired back, McDonnell said.

[Ruiner]

another scenario i thought woulda been better than just shooting up the guy and the kid

Cliff, he came CHARGING out of the house while firing. The article does not mention that, but the clip that I posted does.

[Bishop]

It was unclear who fired the shot that hit the girl
READ^^^

[Cliff]

ehhhh yea my article didn't say about running outta the house firing but it still is crap...i dunno i guess it's just a tragic loss

[Ruiner]

ehhhh yea my article didn't say about running outta the house firing but it still is crap...i dunno i guess it's just a tragic loss

Tragic, yes, but do not blame the officers. Blame the POS guy who used his kid as a shield.

[Cliff]

yea there's no doubt the guy was total crap for doin that to begin with but the way my article had everything worded he just had the guns in his possesion when they shot...not that he went running at them firing...still i think there are ways it could have been avoided i dunno though i wasn't there

[Ruiner]

yea there's no doubt the guy was total crap for doin that to begin with but the way my article had everything worded he just had the guns in his possesion when they shot...not that he went running at them firing...still i think there are ways it could have been avoided i dunno though i wasn't there

Liberal media, especially in the anti-gun Kalifornia. What else do you expect from an article in that state?

Trust me, when he runs towards you firing a weapon, that is "suicide by cop" more or less. After a few hours standoff, I have a feeling that he just wanted to die and didn't want to kill himself.

[Cliff]

yea i couldn't care less about him...one less idiot in this world i am just pissed he took the kid with him...17 months is just beginning to live and he ruined that for the baby

[Ruiner]

yea i couldn't care less about him...one less idiot in this world i am just pissed he took the kid with him...17 months is just beginning to live and he ruined that for the baby

This is not to justify, but do you honestly believe that the kid would have had a good life had he lived?

[Cliff]

true but everyone should have a chance to make their life what they can...whether they grow up in foster homes or if they grow up adopted by a rich family living a life of luxury i still feel everyone deserves a chance

[Ruiner]

true but everyone should have a chance to make their life what they can...whether they grow up in foster homes or if they grow up adopted by a rich family living a life of luxury i still feel everyone deserves a chance

Sometimes it is unavoidable, Cliff.

[Cliff]

yea...

[RISKYB]

i understand what the deal is but maybe the officers could have tried harder to find another way to handle the situaion

[Ruiner]

i understand what the deal is but maybe the officers could have tried harder to find another way to handle the situaion

The guy came out of the house running, shooting, and he hit an officer. What else should they have done!?!??!

[SaraX5]

regardless of the exact unknown details its very unfortunate that a 17 month old baby lost her life

[soul]

next time maybe the pussies will just use a grenade, be alot easier

[LaurenK]

sad.

[SniperJoe]

Read...

What I'm saying is that a sniper could have shot him before he even had gotten out of the house. (Then the rest of the team could have rushed in).

[Ruiner]

What I'm saying is that a sniper could have shot him before he even had gotten out of the house. (Then the rest of the team could have rushed in).

Hindsight is always 20-20. It isn't policy to take someone out so soon. You have to try and negotiate first.

[99ITRGIRL]

they are more at fault because i don't care if he is holding guns or not if the man is holding a 17 month old child in front of him you don't just say "well boys i guess well just have to go through the baby to get him!" they should have ceased fire as soon as they found the baby was in the room and not even began to fire again until the baby has safely been removed....remove hostages then worry about the gunman
EXACTLY

[Jaimecbr900]

I agree with Ruiner, Cliff.

There was a standoff. The guy made some bad choices. He forced their hand. If you are the police, are you gonna let him run up to you and shoot YOU???? If he's using the child as a shield, there is really nothing they could have done at that very sec. Even a sniper would be hard pressed to hit that kind of target (running with a child as a shield).

I would blame more the guy than the police. But for his actions, his baby would still be alive today.

[SniperJoe]

Hindsight is always 20-20.

Indeed it is. Unfortunately, in this case, this guy was a dumbass and put the police in a tight spot and there was a hell of a price to pay.

[Cliff]

I agree with Ruiner, Cliff.

There was a standoff. The guy made some bad choices. He forced their hand. If you are the police, are you gonna let him run up to you and shoot YOU???? If he's using the child as a shield, there is really nothing they could have done at that very sec. Even a sniper would be hard pressed to hit that kind of target (running with a child as a shield).

I would blame more the guy than the police. But for his actions, his baby would still be alive today.

yea i agree with him more now that i have seen more of the story than just a guy with some guns is holding a baby and got shot.....but still can the cops really not aim for his knee caps instead of the torso