H22A Head on a F22B bottom end...It can be done??

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Just curious if any of you honda techs (or anyone who might have done this before) have ever bolted up an H22A head to an F22B bottom end and what kind of results they got as far as power, reliability, and if so what all I might need as far as extra parts to make this swap possible. What im thinkin is it should all bolt up and i'll have somewhat of an H22 with a cast iron bottom end for boosting? :thinking: NE and all feedback is welcome

[dartingd]

www.cb7tuner.com is the place you need!

[GSRteg®]

Yup^^^^




www.cb7tuner.com (http://www.cb7tuner.com/) is the place you need!

[.::UNKNOWN::.]

:2cents: if i am not mistaken it will fit but it is highly unstable you could go for thousands of miles with a good tune or you would go for a 150 miles with the same tune my word of advise is beware

[Evil Goat]

n/m...had me confused this early in the morning, im thinking of the accord f series motors

[BTLFED]

n/m...had me confused this early in the morning, im thinking of the accord f series motors

I think he is talking about the Accord F Series engines....:thinking:

[Evil Goat]

i thought there was a jdm f22 that was a dohc motor? but i couldve swore that f22b's were the 90-96 accord motors (and 98-0X are f23's?), shit what am i talking about i own an 01 accord, lemme go look...yea f23a1 in my 01 lx

i hope hes not talking about the sohc motors, that shit wouldnt line up for hell, lol

[BTLFED]

i thought there was a jdm f22 that was a dohc motor? but i couldve swore that f22b's were the 90-96 accord motors (and 98-0X are f23's?), shit what am i talking about i own an 01 accord, lemme go look...yea f23a1 in my 01 lx

i hope hes not talking about the sohc motors, that shit wouldnt line up for hell, lol

There is an F22 that is a JDM DOHC engine, but it is kinda like the Civic ZC engine, DOHC but based on the D series. You can't bolt a B Series head on a ZC block.

[Evil Goat]

There is an F22 that is a JDM DOHC engine, but it is kinda like the Civic ZC engine, DOHC but based on the D series. You can't bolt a B Series head on a ZC block.

interesting, i never really got into the dohc motors, i was a d series fan :gay:

[BTLFED]

interesting, i never really got into the dohc motors, i was a d series fan :gay:

:lmfao:

Well I am thinking that F & H Series engines are the same. You can't put an H series engine on an F series block.

[allmotoronly]

the only F-series engine that will safely accept the H22A head is the F20B from the accord SiR and the Euro R (before the H22A Euro R). It comes stock with the same head as the JDM Prelude type S H22A head. Any other F-Series engine will need some modifications (almost like doing a LS/VTEC conversion on a B series) but the F series engines will never rev high enough in stock form to take advantage of a H22A head, which makes the extra power mainly above 6k rpm. The F series can only safely go to about 6500 rpm stock on a daily basis. Now if you are building this as a race engine that you plan on running at the strip, then I say go for it, but if you want something reliable to use as a DD or something like that, then I say to just buy a new engine. If you want to keep it F series, get a jdm F20B engine (make sure to get the ECU as well). It has 200hp and a 8k RPM redline, DOHC VTEC, and the same head as the jdm H22A type S/Accord Euro R. It pulls like a H22A, with only slightly less torque. They are also usually cheaper than a H22A because nobody knows what it is. Beau Gotti on here had a F20B in his prelude. Im not sure if he is still around, but if you know him or can find him, ask him about the F20B.

edit: another key advantage of the F20B is that it has iron sleeves, not FRM like the H22A, F20C, or C32A. FRM sleeves cannot be honed, bored, etc. You just have to get the engine resleeved. Iron sleeves can be bored or honed. B series engines have iron sleeves. You mentioned something about turboing the engine. FRM sleeves will only safely hold about 8psi or so. Iron sleeves will hold 12+psi.

[BTLFED]

the only F-series engine that will safely accept the H22A head is the F20B from the accord SiR and the Euro R (before the H22A Euro R). It comes stock with the same head as the JDM Prelude type S H22A head. Any other F-Series engine will need some modifications (almost like doing a LS/VTEC conversion on a B series) but the F series engines will never rev high enough in stock form to take advantage of a H22A head, which makes the extra power mainly above 6k rpm. The F series can only safely go to about 6500 rpm stock on a daily basis. Now if you are building this as a race engine that you plan on running at the strip, then I say go for it, but if you want something reliable to use as a DD or something like that, then I say to just buy a new engine. If you want to keep it F series, get a jdm F20B engine (make sure to get the ECU as well). It has 200hp and a 8k RPM redline, DOHC VTEC, and the same head as the jdm H22A type S/Accord Euro R. It pulls like a H22A, with only slightly less torque. They are also usually cheaper than a H22A because nobody knows what it is. Beau Gotti on here had a F20B in his prelude. Im not sure if he is still around, but if you know him or can find him, ask him about the F20B.

edit: another key advantage of the F20B is that it has iron sleeves, not FRM like the H22A, F20C, or C32A. FRM sleeves cannot be honed, bored, etc. You just have to get the engine resleeved. Iron sleeves can be bored or honed. B series engines have iron sleeves. You mentioned something about turboing the engine. FRM sleeves will only safely hold about 8psi or so. Iron sleeves will hold 12+psi.

Great post and has every answer he could need for this. +14 to you. :goodjob:

[§treet_§peed]

good info yo + for you sir

[allmotoronly]

:cheers: thanks

[_Christian_]

^+1. great post

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the only F-series engine that will safely accept the H22A head is the F20B from the accord SiR and the Euro R (before the H22A Euro R). It comes stock with the same head as the JDM Prelude type S H22A head. Any other F-Series engine will need some modifications (almost like doing a LS/VTEC conversion on a B series) but the F series engines will never rev high enough in stock form to take advantage of a H22A head, which makes the extra power mainly above 6k rpm. The F series can only safely go to about 6500 rpm stock on a daily basis. Now if you are building this as a race engine that you plan on running at the strip, then I say go for it, but if you want something reliable to use as a DD or something like that, then I say to just buy a new engine. If you want to keep it F series, get a jdm F20B engine (make sure to get the ECU as well). It has 200hp and a 8k RPM redline, DOHC VTEC, and the same head as the jdm H22A type S/Accord Euro R. It pulls like a H22A, with only slightly less torque. They are also usually cheaper than a H22A because nobody knows what it is. Beau Gotti on here had a F20B in his prelude. Im not sure if he is still around, but if you know him or can find him, ask him about the F20B.

edit: another key advantage of the F20B is that it has iron sleeves, not FRM like the H22A, F20C, or C32A. FRM sleeves cannot be honed, bored, etc. You just have to get the engine resleeved. Iron sleeves can be bored or honed. B series engines have iron sleeves. You mentioned something about turboing the engine. FRM sleeves will only safely hold about 8psi or so. Iron sleeves will hold 12+psi.

pretty insightful post indeed:goojob: +1 for u sir

[EmminoDaGreat]

You can bolt an h series head on a single cam f series block. Look up G23, That has h23 head and f23/22 block. Check it out.

[dartingd]

^^^this is correct also...i would suggest and f22a or f22b block...if i'm not mistaken these engines were iron sleeved as well...they didn't rev high though, so you're still going to run into problems a bit unless you build the bottom end. like i stated before, go to www.cb7tuner.com/vbb for their forums and check their multiple frankenstein posts...do a search for f22a frankenstein, h22 frankenstein, or something like that...there's a couple of guys on there that have successfully done f22a and b blocks w/ h22 heads and managed to get in the 150s-160s whp i believe...for some reason i think i remember the number 147whp from one guy w/ an f22a block and h22 head...hope this helps some

[dakilla4ever]

Ok. where should I start. The F22B came in the JDM prelude Si. Honda produced the H23 for the american market. The F22B is basically the same thing as the h23, but it has 9.2-9.5:1 compression and an 85mm bore. unlike the h23 and h22 that have the 87mm bore. It also has Iron sleeves in it stock. Everything on it is interchangeable with the h23 so...... if you want to bolt an H22 head onto it all you have to do is follow the same procedures as if you were doing an H23VTEC build. Matter of fact here is all that you will need.

write up... not sure but i do know all the parts required.

h22a head 93+(USDM) or 92+ (JDM) with all internals and valve cover
h22a thermostat housing
h22a waterpipe
h22a waterpump
h22a headgasket
h22a lower crank gear
h22a timing belt
h22a headbolts
h22a plug wires
h22a intake manifold (injectors perfered)
h22a header and downpipe
h22a cam gears
h22a top timing belt covers
h22a power steering braket (h23 doesn't line up right)

everything else is easy.. swap out all the parts and sensors from the h23 to the h22a intake manifold.

you can use the h23 powersteering holder but you ned to grind some off the mounting point to clear the head if not it won't bolt up, about 1 inch or so....

eh.. keep the same distributor mounts the same and is fine, but the wires are deeper in the h22a. use the manual tensioner.

replace all the parts listed above, rmove the oilcontrol plug in the block, before putting the head on.

install all the parts, you will need to run other wires and the ecu, but machanically this is it, you cannot use the same waterpump, lower crank gear because the teeth are off and the belt would fail....

anybody attemptin this from a h23 is waisting his time and money.. simpler to go if you allready have an h22a... otherwise will be more expensive the other way...

my own opinion.

and also you need to modify a couple vacuum lines and coolant lines if you keep the non vtec throttlebody because of the extra line.. otherwise do-able....

hope this helps....


As long as you balance the crank and install the H22 oil squirters in, it will last much longer than anybody will think and still be able to rev as high as a stock H22. Hell throw in some h22 type-S pistons and rebush the stock h23 rods and you'll have 11.6:1 compression with a 2156cc Vtec motor. Basically your planning on making a stroker kit out of stock parts. If you done this, me and you will be in a race to see who finishes there's first. If anyone doubts what I'm saying go here and work the numbers out yourself for extra confirmation:

http://zealautowerks.com/hfseries.html

Not only have I done the numbers but I've seen it done. Trust me it works as long as you do it right the first time. Good luck and have fun.

[BTLFED]

You can bolt an h series head on a single cam f series block. Look up G23, That has h23 head and f23/22 block. Check it out.

Yeah but why? :thinking:

[EmminoDaGreat]

I personally wouldnt do it. But hey, he asked if it could be done. And It can, im sure you can use a vtec f series block and an h22 head, but why put so much effort into it? who knows.

[dartingd]

basically guys this all boils down to how cheap it can be done for...you can pick up a sohc f series for nothing and throw an h22 head on it...get about 150 at the wheels which isnt all that impressive, but it's a lot better than stock...

[Ludester]

the only F-series engine that will safely accept the H22A head is the F20B from the accord SiR and the Euro R (before the H22A Euro R). It comes stock with the same head as the JDM Prelude type S H22A head. Any other F-Series engine will need some modifications (almost like doing a LS/VTEC conversion on a B series) but the F series engines will never rev high enough in stock form to take advantage of a H22A head, which makes the extra power mainly above 6k rpm. The F series can only safely go to about 6500 rpm stock on a daily basis. Now if you are building this as a race engine that you plan on running at the strip, then I say go for it, but if you want something reliable to use as a DD or something like that, then I say to just buy a new engine. If you want to keep it F series, get a jdm F20B engine (make sure to get the ECU as well). It has 200hp and a 8k RPM redline, DOHC VTEC, and the same head as the jdm H22A type S/Accord Euro R. It pulls like a H22A, with only slightly less torque. They are also usually cheaper than a H22A because nobody knows what it is. Beau Gotti on here had a F20B in his prelude. Im not sure if he is still around, but if you know him or can find him, ask him about the F20B.

edit: another key advantage of the F20B is that it has iron sleeves, not FRM like the H22A, F20C, or C32A. FRM sleeves cannot be honed, bored, etc. You just have to get the engine resleeved. Iron sleeves can be bored or honed. B series engines have iron sleeves. You mentioned something about turboing the engine. FRM sleeves will only safely hold about 8psi or so. Iron sleeves will hold 12+psi.


Great post as usual :goodjob: .


I like hybrids if they are done right. For one... I wouldn't take a h22 head and slap it on a f22 bottom end just like that. I'd build the block and get h22 pistons. Better yet... the type S pistons. Reason being this combo that he is talking about still won't make as much power as a stock h22 because the compression isn't there. I'd also balance the crank so I would be able to rev atleast as high as a h22. But your way is much easier lol...

To the orginal thread starter. It can be done. but it will cost you to do it right. it's been done before.

tel.

[Ludester]

Ok. where should I start. The F22B came in the JDM prelude Si. Honda produced the H23 for the american market. The F22B is basically the same thing as the h23, but it has 9.2-9.5:1 compression and an 85mm bore. unlike the h23 and h22 that have the 87mm bore. It also has Iron sleeves in it stock. Everything on it is interchangeable with the h23 so...... if you want to bolt an H22 head onto it all you have to do is follow the same procedures as if you were doing an H23VTEC build. Matter of fact here is all that you will need.

write up... not sure but i do know all the parts required.

h22a head 93+(USDM) or 92+ (JDM) with all internals and valve cover
h22a thermostat housing
h22a waterpipe
h22a waterpump
h22a headgasket
h22a lower crank gear
h22a timing belt
h22a headbolts
h22a plug wires
h22a intake manifold (injectors perfered)
h22a header and downpipe
h22a cam gears
h22a top timing belt covers
h22a power steering braket (h23 doesn't line up right)

everything else is easy.. swap out all the parts and sensors from the h23 to the h22a intake manifold.

you can use the h23 powersteering holder but you ned to grind some off the mounting point to clear the head if not it won't bolt up, about 1 inch or so....

eh.. keep the same distributor mounts the same and is fine, but the wires are deeper in the h22a. use the manual tensioner.

replace all the parts listed above, rmove the oilcontrol plug in the block, before putting the head on.

install all the parts, you will need to run other wires and the ecu, but machanically this is it, you cannot use the same waterpump, lower crank gear because the teeth are off and the belt would fail....

anybody attemptin this from a h23 is waisting his time and money.. simpler to go if you allready have an h22a... otherwise will be more expensive the other way...

my own opinion.

and also you need to modify a couple vacuum lines and coolant lines if you keep the non vtec throttlebody because of the extra line.. otherwise do-able....

hope this helps....


As long as you balance the crank and install the H22 oil squirters in, it will last much longer than anybody will think and still be able to rev as high as a stock H22. Hell throw in some h22 type-S pistons and rebush the stock h23 rods and you'll have 11.6:1 compression with a 2156cc Vtec motor. Basically your planning on making a stroker kit out of stock parts. If you done this, me and you will be in a race to see who finishes there's first. If anyone doubts what I'm saying go here and work the numbers out yourself for extra confirmation:

http://zealautowerks.com/hfseries.html

Not only have I done the numbers but I've seen it done. Trust me it works as long as you do it right the first time. Good luck and have fun.

Wow! I see you've learned a lot these pass couple of years.

tel

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+1 to anyone who posted info on the subject. But i think Allmotor persuaded me to go a different route :ninja:

[Ludester]

his way is expensive too. Unless you get the f20b ;). but good luck getting the tranny with it. Also make sure you get the manual ecu. That ecu's fuel cut off it at 9k.

[allmotoronly]

his way is expensive too. Unless you get the f20b ;). but good luck getting the tranny with it. Also make sure you get the manual ecu. That ecu's fuel cut off it at 9k.

yea the auto tranny ecu makes 20hp less, but has more midrange torque. In other words, make sure to get the MANUAL ECU!!!!!!!!

BTW the F20B will bolt up to any f series or H series tranny. I suggest a 4th gen jdm tranny with LSD, or a 5th gen jdm with LSD (The 4th gen are easier to find).

[allmotoronly]

+1 to anyone who posted info on the subject. But i think Allmotor persuaded me to go a different route :ninja:

If you decide to go with the F20B let me know. I would really like to see it in an accord. I was sooo close to getting a 98 accord ex 4 door (dont hate, 4 doors are cool too) and dropping a F20B in it, but I got a great deal on my GSR, so that will have to wait. Imagine a F20B with hotter cams, an accord euro R intake mani, and a good tune. It will rev higher than the H22A (shorter stroke!!!) and should be easier to persuade power from than a USDM H22A since the c/r is higher. I still have that on my list of honda's to build. It would definitely be different!

[IndianStig]

F20B is the way to go. I once had plans to do a turbo F20B in my old CB7, those were the days.

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If you decide to go with the F20B let me know. I would really like to see it in an accord. I was sooo close to getting a 98 accord ex 4 door (dont hate, 4 doors are cool too) and dropping a F20B in it, but I got a great deal on my GSR, so that will have to wait. Imagine a F20B with hotter cams, an accord euro R intake mani, and a good tune. It will rev higher than the H22A (shorter stroke!!!) and should be easier to persuade power from than a USDM H22A since the c/r is higher. I still have that on my list of honda's to build. It would definitely be different!

Well expect it pretty soon. Im thinking about gettin a loan or something. Im still waiting on a settlement from when i got in that car accident, but I think the F20B is definitly the way im going. And im gonna need all the help i can get when im putting this motor in too. :Goodjob:

[Ludester]

great choice :). what year accord do you have?

[allmotoronly]

Well expect it pretty soon. Im thinking about gettin a loan or something. Im still waiting on a settlement from when i got in that car accident, but I think the F20B is definitly the way im going. And im gonna need all the help i can get when im putting this motor in too. :Goodjob:

just email me if you have any questions. Its no different than putting a H22A into an accord. you have to swap a few things, not much. Also what year is your car. The F20B is OBDII. hopefully your car is too....

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just email me if you have any questions. Its no different than putting a H22A into an accord. you have to swap a few things, not much. Also what year is your car. The F20B is OBDII. hopefully your car is too....

Yeah mines a 97 Accord EX. so hopefully most of it will bolt and connect right up.

[Ludester]

change the oil pump to a usdm prelude pump. I think that's pretty much the major change I can think of off the top of my head. everything else is little compared to that.

[allmotoronly]

change the oil pump to a usdm prelude pump. I think that's pretty much the major change I can think of off the top of my head. everything else is little compared to that.

I didn't think there was a difference...

[Ludester]

I didn't think there was a difference...

Where is the crank sensor on the obd2 accords? Isn't it on the oil pump like the obd2 preludes? :thinking: .

[allmotoronly]

yea and his car is obdII, same as all F20B engines.

[Ludester]

so then he would have to change the oil pump becuase the f20b has a internal crank sensor. (internal meaning inside the dist.).

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so then he would have to change the oil pump becuase the f20b has a internal crank sensor. (internal meaning inside the dist.).

...so apparently you guys are doin my engine swap for me

[Ludester]

hahaaha that depends on how much your paying. When I did my swap it took me like 8 months. Granted I didn't really know what I was doing. I learned a lot from it. I don't think i want to do it again lol...

[allmotoronly]

yea how much $$$ is involved. Last swap I did took me about 2 weeks (weekends and a few evenings only)

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money and beer will be involved, there will be a few people workin on it. My buddy w/ a boosted 96 Accord will probably help too. Just want it to go as smooth and as quick as possible

[Ludester]

yea how much $$$ is involved. Last swap I did took me about 2 weeks (weekends and a few evenings only)

that's about right. I couldn't seem to figure out what I wanted to do the motor before I dropped it in. I kept changing my mind and what not. Then I couldn't find the tranny I wanted. It was stressful.

[allmotoronly]

beer sounds good right about now... think I'll go have one

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a couple of my friends swapped a GSR from one car to another in a weekend, it shouldnt take us much longer

[allmotoronly]

a couple of my friends swapped a GSR from one car to another in a weekend, it shouldnt take us much longer

well it may take a little longer. you will probably want to put in a new clutch while the engine is out of the car and go ahead and check and make sure no seals or anything are needed. Any H22A clutch SHOULD fit. I will double check. I would go with an exedy clutch (stage 1 if this car is going to be your dd). I have used them with good results.

as for modifications to the F20B, I would go with an Accord Euro R intake manifold and a tuned P73 ecu (ITR). The stock IM is like the stock IM on the USDM H22A. It has 2 runners. The Euro R IM has shorter single runners and is good for about 6 extra WHP. It also sounds a lot better too. Get a good Header also. Other than that, you should be good to go. Keep it simple and you will have a fast, strong, and reliable engine.

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about that btw, the car is auto, im changing it to 5spd

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and the engine im getting comes w/ all that i believe, the Euro R IM, and the Euro R ECU

[allmotoronly]

and the engine im getting comes w/ all that i believe, the Euro R IM, and the Euro R ECU

I mean the H22A euro R (red top), not F20B euro R (blue top).

[Ludester]

and the engine im getting comes w/ all that i believe, the Euro R IM, and the Euro R ECU


your getting a EURO R? That's the best choice IMO! Although the f20b has the best gearing the euro r has the next best gearing and is the Type s h22 bigger brother.

[allmotoronly]

your getting a EURO R? That's the best choice IMO! Although the f20b has the best gearing the euro r has the next best gearing and is the Type s h22 bigger brother.

I think he is confused.

[Ludester]

lol... the best question is how much is the motor he is getting? then we will know what he is actually getting by the price ;)

[allmotoronly]

yea. personally I would rather have the F20B than the H22A euro R. The h22A euro R runs about $4500... F20B runs about $2200. The extra $2300 could do a lot of things to that engine.

[Ludester]

that is so true! I think I want to build a f20b... just see what it can do.