D15b7-Vitara's/rods. Which turbo?

[redciv1]

Ok so I am reading and learning more about turbo maps and picking the right turbo to match engine size and hp. So I want the magic 300hp+ or slightly over and have looked at a couple of turbo's. Would like to know if the 14B would be capable of pushing to 300hp? Also the Garret TB0344 T/3 series turbo. Compressor.60, Turbine.48. Also is there an advantage of a turbo that is oil and water cooled. Check this site out I was looking at for used turbos.
http://www.spooledmotorsports.com. Looking for low end power more so than high revving power. :goodjob:

[Jecht]

It would be very hard to get low end power without a smaller turbo that spins quickly b/c the D-series is so tiny. I seriously doubt that the 14b could get you to 300hp. I would recommend a T25 for a D-series, it might not get you to 300hp but it fits the size of the engine.

[-S Double C-]

id use a .57 t3/t4 and about 20-25 psi and break 400whp. If your running a vitara's and aftermarket rods...that amount of power could easily be had.

[GSRteg®]

Ah, ok




id use a .57 t3/t4 and about 20-25 psi and break 400whp. If your running a vitara's and aftermarket rods...that amount of power could easily be had.

[redciv1]

This engine will be going into a Friday, good weather, weekend car. You know, the FUN CAR. I'm only looking for modest power so 400hp is too much. I want to be able to drive the car regulary on the street. I saw the t25 and believe I have seen it pushed to about 250-275whp. Anymore info and what about the oil vs. oil/coolant cooling?

[scttydb411]

the t3 .60/.48 will get you to about 300whp. it'll spool around 4-4.5k rpm. the t25 won't allow you to get to 300whp, but will spool before 3k rpm and fall off at the upper end depending on how much boost you try pushing through it.

[miro_gt]

t3/t4 50 trim .60/.63 stage 3 wheel


get over it, early spool = no top end ... and hondas make power between 5 and 8K RPM

[blue_5g_zc]

gt2871, will answer all ur hp goals and quick spool

[iNsTuN nOoDoH]

Turbosize scotty recommended was exactly what I ran. Loved it. No major lag and a nice top end.

[GSRteg®]

Hmmmm

[redciv1]

I see. Well Sctty is my hero and as far as I am concern a legend when it comes to d-series boosts, especially with his tuning. Garret TB0344 T/3 series turbo. Compressor.60, Turbine.48 so this would be the right turbo then, cool. I realize Honda's are high revving but what good is high revving when most street driving is done in the 3-5k range. This car is not seeing a track. Hey Sctty did you keep the A/C on your set-up? I can't remember what your set-up was on IL.com.

[redciv1]

LOL, uhhhh GSRteg I notice you have been observing in the background. Feel free to add info please. NsTuN what was your set-up?

[scttydb411]

I see. Well Sctty is my hero and as far as I am concern a legend when it comes to d-series boosts, especially with his tuning. Garret TB0344 T/3 series turbo. Compressor.60, Turbine.48 so this would be the right turbo then, cool. I realize Honda's are high revving but what good is high revving when most street driving is done in the 3-5k range. This car is not seeing a track. Hey Sctty did you keep the A/C on your set-up? I can't remember what your set-up was on IL.com.

yes...a/c however it did crap out on me at the end of the summer last year. i either have a clog in the system or the door is stuck on the box behind the dash. i've been too busy and lazy to pull it to check it...i better get off my a$$ since it's starting to get too hot.

for that size engine that will be a good turbo. the problem using the .63 turbine is that on a d15 it'll spool late and you won't be able to rev it like a b-series or even like a d16. i enjoy my 13t, but it does die off at the top end. if i ran an external gate w/ an electronic boost control it wouldn't be noticeable.

[redciv1]

Thanks. Yeah I saw the specs on the .63 and read about how most of the usable hp was in the high range and that just didn't fit my situation. Hmmmmm, being thinking whether to keep the internal wg or go with external. Is there any advantages to the internal? Also if I go with an internal wg could I use an electronic boost controller. I won't say this is a budget build but I'm not trying to go all out on this one. Just need to know. I figure keep the internal wg and get a boost controller, well maybe not, because I can acquire your services and have you tune as close to 300hp streetable power as possible. Not really a need for boost controller since I won't be hitting track or is there? :bannana: Hey do you still make the Varsity meets? I never had a chance to see your car.

[scttydb411]

go external. ebc and internal gates don't work well since external gates and ebc use dual ports to have more consistent and stable boost (top and bottom ports on the wg).

i stopped going to the varsity when it got too out of control and what it's become. also most thursdays i'm on the dyno.

[blue_5g_zc]

gt2871 if u got the cheese, or a t3 super 60. good spool or mucho power either way

[GSRteg®]

Good advice.... :yes:

[JBalla1036]

Just as a caution I hope you have another motor. Cause the D15 start to break around 300hp.

[redciv1]

Just as a caution I hope you have another motor. Cause the D15 start to break around 300hp.
Yeah Sctty, I box dEXSTAR used to go but I think he said the samething as you and stopped going. We have a friend that I will be letting Mainstream do a b18 swap on is Ferio so hopefully I will finally get a chance to meet you then and see the car.
...break around 300hp you mean rods or block itself. D15's start to break around 400hp. But I'm not talking on stock internals. I have yet to see d15 block break from 300hp. I surely don't know everything so some d-series experts chime in please.

[JBalla1036]

I have had a few guys I know build some d15's and mayb it was just back luck but the motors just dont seem as strong as the 16's. Right now I'm in the process of building a 350-400 hp 16z6. But good luck with your build

[blue_5g_zc]

yea the cranks on the d15s dont stand up as hard or as long as the z16. *chimming in*

as far as the blocks go, when u start getting to that kinda 300-400hp range its the cyclinder walls that become a factor and proper oil flow, thats why u usually see people camfering *spelling* their oil passages in their bearings and crank and oil pump.

[redciv1]

thanks guys for the info. I have heard that the cylinder walls need reinforcing at about 400hp but not near the 300hp range. I have to check into the crank issue also, I could always get a 16z crank. Anymore info?

[iNsTuN nOoDoH]

I ran a really cheap set up. I just had a turbonetics t3, hks bov and spoolin performance fmic that were name branded or recommended but eveything else was ebay stuff. Fuel I ran a walbro 255, dsm 450cc and uberdata at the time at 10-11 psi. I drove a car with a t25 and I didnt5 like it. It was like a quick feeling of boost, but also a real quick wtf? Where's the power? The t3 I ran I felt boost all the way to redline.

[redciv1]

You were using the .60 trim T3 correct? What was acceleration like in 1st, 2nd. BTW, I love that Civic in your sig. I was against the Silvia/Civic conversion but that one is really nice. Makes me reconsider. :goodjob:

[iNsTuN nOoDoH]

Yeah a 60 trim. I still got it as a paper weight. I could never tell how my first was cuz my stock clutch was slippin, but 2nd was probably my strongest gear.

[iNsTuN nOoDoH]

Yeah a 60 trim. I still got it as a paper weight. I could never tell how my first was cuz my stock clutch was slippin, but 2nd was probably my strongest gear. Oh yeah this was on a y8 btw, not the d15...

[SiRed94]

just curious... but where did you find performance rods for a D15? or are you using stock ones?

[redciv1]

just curious... but where did you find performance rods for a D15? or are you using stock ones?

The rods are either Eagle Rods or Tuner Toys(TT) tunertoys.zoovy.com H or I beam rods. You can use the rods with the Vitara. Some years back a guy out of Puerto Rico, FJT is his name on d-series.com and turbocivic.com, found out that the Suzuki Grand Vitara pistons could hold 400hp+ and were the same size as Civic pistons 75mm. Now there are overbore sizes of 75.5 available. If you do a Google search you will find these pistons have been used in many cars and are only a fraction of the price of Aftermarket pistons. FJT also sells these pistons so when you go to the other boards you will find many, many satisfied customers.

[sullen]

t25. t3/t4 is too big. won't spool till way late. like 5.5k rpms... t25 will start at like 3.2K rpms.

[SiRed94]

The rods are either Eagle Rods or Tuner Toys(TT) tunertoys.zoovy.com H or I beam rods. You can use the rods with the Vitara. Some years back a guy out of Puerto Rico, FJT is his name on d-series.com and turbocivic.com, found out that the Suzuki Grand Vitara pistons could hold 400hp+ and were the same size as Civic pistons 75mm. Now there are overbore sizes of 75.5 available. If you do a Google search you will find these pistons have been used in many cars and are only a fraction of the price of Aftermarket pistons. FJT also sells these pistons so when you go to the other boards you will find many, many satisfied customers.

yeah I know all about using g16 pistons ... but for what you are wanting I really don't think that's what you need... if you want power down low... the g16's drop the C/R quite a bit to around 8.5:1... lower C/R is gunna hurt bottom end a pretty good bit... and also eagle doesn't offer rods for the D15 engine and the D16 rods will not fit the D15 crank because the journal sizes are different... I'm not flaming I'm just saying that I've been trying to find some H Beams for a D15 for a while now... and 300whp is kinda high for a DD ... but if you are stuck on using the g16 pistons with your d15 block... just get your rods shot peened and mill the head down a bit and use a 2 layer MLS Head Gasket and you will have a decent compression ratio and a setup that can handle a decent amount of boost... because the ring lands on the vitara pistons can handle a lot more abuse than the stock honda ones... but whatever you do ... please don't BS the tuning....

[SiRed94]

oh and as far as the turbo goes... t25 is good for bottom end but doesnt make much power past 5k... but plain t3's, 14b's and 16g's all kick in pretty earlier and still make decent power on top end....

[redciv1]

I don't take it as flaming. The Eagle rods are on Tuner Toys page and they also carry Scat rods. Not using a t25. Top-end drops off too much. I want low end power but not so much that I can't use my first 2 gears because of wheel spin. You should really check out some of the other forums for d-series info. Lower compression ration=more boost. :D

[SiRed94]

I don't take it as flaming. The Eagle rods are on Tuner Toys page and they also carry Scat rods. Not using a t25. Top-end drops off too much. I want low end power but not so much that I can't use my first 2 gears because of wheel spin. You should really check out some of the other forums for d-series info. Lower compression ration=more boost. :D

No... proper tuning=more boost!!! I'm running 10.5:1 Compression on 23 psi daily and have been for a while now... and I could run even more if I wanted... and as I stated before... the H beam rods on those websites are for the D16 engine... which will not work on a D15... and if you drop your compression that low on something with as little displacement as a D15, I promise you that you will not have the bottom end power that you are looking for...

[SiRed94]

ok... and the number one cause of high performance engine failures ... especially turboed engines is "detonation" so research that term... reducing detonation allows you to run more boost safely... and there are several other ways to safely reduce detonation other than just lowering the piss out of your compression

[bernard]

www.turbod16.com u can get all your answers there bro. And i would say do a do a z6 bottom end and with 300 hp to 400 hp goals don't use the vitra pistons cause u need to run higher boost and they won't hold soo much. I would recomend the weisco piston. I built my homies motor with those and hes boostin 16 psi putting down 297 i did 283 on my z6 with the vitras. They are good, and worth the money, its all up too u and your goals. And turbo wise, i ran t3/t4 with a 57 trim. More than enough bro, get an egt gauge and wideband and tune and it will make u happy. Really Good luck with the build.

[sullen]

dude, t 25 all the way with that motor. as a matter of fact, i know a guy who is trying to sell his d17a2 t25 setup. cant afford gas prices. the turbo is in great condition still, only about 6 months use on it. i think he's asking $400 for the turbo and manifold. problem with the d series is that they were never designed to be performance. so making power is hard period. dohc makes power alot easier. sohc with vtec, gotta set the vtec high enough that it wont engage. vtec requires 2 sets of maps, and alot of tuning. gotta tune for below vtec, then tune for vtec. expensive and complex. then when vtec kicks in, you run into problems with the turbo. vtec spits alot of exhaust, turbo spools, engine tends to lean out easily.

[SiRed94]

oh and btw... I do support your build... I'm glad to see someone else who likes SOHC's... anyways man... just keep researching, find out what you really want from this... and then it'll start coming together...

[miro_gt]

dude, t 25 all the way with that motor. as a matter of fact, i know a guy who is trying to sell his d17a2 t25 setup. cant afford gas prices. the turbo is in great condition still, only about 6 months use on it. i think he's asking $400 for the turbo and manifold. problem with the d series is that they were never designed to be performance. so making power is hard period. dohc makes power alot easier. sohc with vtec, gotta set the vtec high enough that it wont engage. vtec requires 2 sets of maps, and alot of tuning. gotta tune for below vtec, then tune for vtec. expensive and complex. then when vtec kicks in, you run into problems with the turbo. vtec spits alot of exhaust, turbo spools, engine tends to lean out easily.

since I'll have to correct this misinformation that you tend to spread around, I shall start with this one:

- you don't run into problems with the turbo when the VTEC kicks in, unless the tune is screwed up;

- you may need your VTEC to engage earlier than before, not to set its engaging point so hight that it wont engage at all;

- the engine doesn't go lean when the VTEC engages - that depends on the tune and the ability of the other components to handle the fuel requirements


t25. t3/t4 is too big. won't spool till way late. like 5.5k rpms... t25 will start at like 3.2K rpms.

- the spool time depends on the exhaust housing (and wheel) used - 90% and on the compressor - 10%

- t3/t4 can be made to spool at 4K RPM to 6K RPM based on the setup of the turbo, and the setup of the engine

------------------------

duh..

[EmminoDaGreat]

About time some said something about the "set vtec high because its trouble thing" lol....

[SiRed94]

yeah I wasn't even going to get started on that one... but yes... IT IS ALL IN THE TUNING!!! and no a t3/t4 doesn't always have to spool at 5k ... you can do many things such as reduce the amount of restrictions on the exhaust gases entering and exiting the turbo aka (using larger diameter piping/improving bends etc) to reduce spool time, also there are several companies that make ball bearing center sections and ceramic compressor wheels which both drastically reduce spool time...

[1SOL2NV]

yall making me feel dumb ! ... keep the post coming very informative guys !!

[redciv1]

No... proper tuning=more boost!!! I'm running 10.5:1 Compression on 23 psi daily and have been for a while now... and I could run even more if I wanted... and as I stated before... the H beam rods on those websites are for the D16 engine... which will not work on a D15... and if you drop your compression that low on something with as little displacement as a D15, I promise you that you will not have the bottom end power that you are looking for...

So you are running a 10.5:1 compression on your motor and it's boosted to 23 psi, interesting? I really appreciate all of the info and tuning is a definite.

[sullen]

tuning is alot of it, but too much compression can still blow the HG. so yea, high compression+high boost=blown HG. tuning is a big factor of it though. gotta keep stoichiometrics.

[SiRed94]

tuning is alot of it, but too much compression can still blow the HG. so yea, high compression+high boost=blown HG. tuning is a big factor of it though. gotta keep stoichiometrics.

yeah i wasn't saying that you can run maximum amounts of boost on something like 12:1 compression... I'm just saying that you dont have to lower your compression ration to 8:1 to be able to boost your car "safely" or "reliably" but yes... a head gasket can only take so much.... my point was that if the "perfect" 14.7:1 air fuel mixture is present which is gained through proper tuning... alot higher compression ratios are possible with boost without detonation....

[scttydb411]

yeah i wasn't saying that you can run maximum amounts of boost on something like 12:1 compression... I'm just saying that you dont have to lower your compression ration to 8:1 to be able to boost your car "safely" or "reliably" but yes... a head gasket can only take so much.... my point was that if the "perfect" 14.7:1 air fuel mixture is present which is gained through proper tuning... alot higher compression ratios are possible with boost without detonation....

14.7:1 and boost? try 11.5:1 to 12.5:1. 14.7:1 and boost = boom, crack-a-lac on almost any useable compression.

[redciv1]

14.7:1 and boost? try 11.5:1 to 12.5:1. 14.7:1 and boost = boom, crack-a-lac on almost any useable compression.

Thanks Sctty, I thougt the magic# was 12.0:1 for A/F. Sctty's the man. I understand the compression is low however this won't be a on the road tune but hopefully and hour or two of tunning.
BTW, I did plan on using the z6 crank. I didn't realize they were for the z6 only.

[SiRed94]

14.7:1 and boost? try 11.5:1 to 12.5:1. 14.7:1 and boost = boom, crack-a-lac on almost any useable compression.

indeed... yes... sorry I had that number stuck in my head... that is just the middle point... basically zero.. anything lower is considered a rich mixture anything higher is lean... I apologize for my misinformation... but reasons like this is why Scotty remains as "The Shit" hahah thanks for the correction...

[redciv1]

I appreciate all the help. One question though that I was bugging me. Aren't alot of the T25's left pretty warned considering they haven't made 2nd gen Eclipses' in almost 10 years?

[SoLJames95]

Okay I will tell you, and Scotty correct me if im wrong, Because you tuned my car so much. Ive blown 2 D15b7s, (This is not cuz of Scotty,I have a led foot and I push my car to the limits.I love you Scotty) Stock internals. I run a T25. The car ran well at 10 pounds, and you can tickle 11 pounds sometimes... Never do 12. If you want a quick spool but around 300 and not worrying about boost falling off, I suggest the gt28R BB. That will be in the range. No lag all boost. The D15 is meant to be under 250. Dont make the same mistake that I did.
MY:2cents:

[scttydb411]

you are correct. d15's i recommend 200-210 max. the t25 starts blowing hoter air around 11-12psi and topping it's eficiency at that point. the gt28 is a good suggestion too. most t25's you'll find are pretty tired, but there are a few good one's still out there.

james-your car probably could've held 11psi all day long, but 12psi...wasn't it more like 14psi? timing and fuel of 11psi at 12psi or 14psi=boom! you could've been ok in those instances, but not w/o a mapsensor that can extend that far. you gotta pay to play.

i know ya love me-james!

[SoLJames95]

you are correct. d15's i recommend 200-210 max. the t25 starts blowing hoter air around 11-12psi and topping it's eficiency at that point. the gt28 is a good suggestion too. most t25's you'll find are pretty tired, but there are a few good one's still out there.

james-your car probably could've held 11psi all day long, but 12psi...wasn't it more like 14psi? timing and fuel of 11psi at 12psi or 14psi=boom! you could've been ok in those instances, but not w/o a mapsensor that can extend that far. you gotta pay to play.

i know ya love me-james!

Ill see you tomarrow on the dyno, my car is beingboosted right now. LOL. 10 pounds, 3rd times a charm.