Who's the biggest Villain Sadam or Bush?

[1000cckiller]

This is my last question for a minute. I want to know who ya'll think the biggest villain is, is it Bush or Sadam. After watching the special on National Geographic last night, I saw how much of a villain sadam was. But in my eyes Bush is a villain too. Bush to me lead us to a war for reasons people still dont know, and has pretty much turn his party against him. Sadam was a villain to his own people which to me that is his own countries fault, for allowing him to abuse them. Our country can't be the police for everyone's problems. I would like to hear others imput.

[xLSTONEx]

who cares, and sadam is dead, so I think Bush wins by default. Even though I like Bush.

[1000cckiller]

who cares, and sadam is dead, so I think Bush wins by default. Even though I like Bush.I like ya answer lol.

[ShooterMcGavin]

i think bush should follow in saddam's footsteps, i hear hell is a lonely place :goodjob:

[Fr33way]

404: public mutilation and genocide not found under Bush. No contest.

[OneSlow5pt0]

is this a joke?

of course sadam,he was bout the worst dictator since Hitler

[Ed]

i think bush should follow in saddam's footsteps, i hear hell is a lonely place :goodjob:

bush for the motherfucking loss

[2.0civic]

who cares, and sadam is dead, so I think Bush wins by default. Even though I like Bush.

exactly

[OneSlow5pt0]

well,the only people to blame for bush is the USA,because we voted for him,and hes bout to be out of office anyways..but sadam took over power and would still be in power

[2.0civic]

How the hell is sadaam even an option in this? its a no brainer...as landon said, his ass is dead

[OneSlow5pt0]

How the hell is sadaam even an option in this? its a no brainer...as landon said, his ass is dead


this is true...

[1000cckiller]

^ I understand what you are saying, but we arent the only people calling Bush a villain there are othe countries. But lying to start a war and the killing a bunch of people is being a villain in my book. And the chemical weapons sadam had he used them on his own people.

[1000cckiller]

OKay if he was still alive it would be a factor, so look at it like that.

[quickdodge®]

i hear hell is a lonely place

It's not. There's a shitload of folks down there. Later, QD.

[2.0civic]

not going to start a debate but lets look at this

In two sentences you say



But lying to start a war and the killing a bunch of people is being a villain in my book


what was he lying about? I love when people talk about him lying but its so broad, i would like you to be more defining to prove your stance


And the chemical weapons sadam had he used them on his own people

so bush lied about WMD's but yet sadam used them on his own people?? How?? he didnt have them, remember? Bush was lying;)

[Mike Lowrey]

This thread can't be serious.....If it is, than the OP is an idiot. There is no contest. If you do not like Bush, fine. Has he committed some crime against the world? NO.

No matter what, we should have sought out the people behind the 911 attack and eliminated them. Not doing so would have led the way for additional attackes in the future. If you look back into the past, the terrorist attacks have been getting more and more deadly.

Why should the world simply turn the other cheek and take these attacks? Simply thinking that is shear stupidity. The world, as the US, have laws. When these law and the order are threatened, there should be consequences. Without sonsequences, there is no deterent for people not to commit crimes.

[2.0civic]

It's not. There's a shitload of folks down there. Later, QD.

LOL half of IA is going there too..I guess as long as we gots the interweb we'll always be IA.

HAHA

"welcome to tunerfest Hell EDITION V. 2.98^1090876!"

[OneSlow5pt0]

and are u saying its ok to torture,blame, and kill your own people....but as long as u dont kill anyone from another country its fine?

[2.0civic]

This thread can't be serious.....If it is, than the OP is an idiot. There is no contest. If you do not like Bush, fine. Has he committed some crime against the world? NO.

No matter what, we should have sought out the people behind the 911 attack and eliminated them. Not doing so would have led the way for additional attackes in the future. If you look back into the past, the terrorist attacks have been getting more and more deadly.

Why should the world simply turn the other cheek and take these attacks? Simply thinking that is shear stupidity. The world, as the US, have laws. When these law and the order are threatened, there should be consequences. Without sonsequences, there is no deterent for people not to commit crimes.

if 9/11 happened during clinton, nobody would be giving a rats ass:goodjob:

Hell, we were more tied up in worrying about who was blowing clinton than we were about who was blowing up our GD country

[Mike Lowrey]

what was he lying about? I love when people talk about him lying but its so broad, i would like you to be more defining to prove your stance

x2

[2.0civic]

and are u saying its ok to torture,blame, and kill your own people....but as long as u dont kill anyone from another country its fine?

same lines i was kind of thinking

[OneSlow5pt0]

same lines i was kind of thinking

:cheers:

[Mike Lowrey]

if 9/11 happened during clinton, nobody would be giving a rats ass:goodjob:

Hell, we were more tied up in worrying about who was blowing clinton than we were about who was blowing up our GD country

Hell the planning and some of the goverment "misses" on the clues happened during the Clinton administration, but nobody says anything about that. All they see is that it happened during the Bush administration, and therefore it is his fault.

People in masses do not think, they react. More americans should start using their own brain and not just automatically beleive what they are told. Self thought and reasoning. That is what is supposed to set us apart from animals!

[OneSlow5pt0]

i like Bush,because to me, i feel like hes not a pussy to do something....at somethie or another we were going to go back to Iraq..regardless if bush was prez

[1000cckiller]

look weapons of mass destruction is more like war heads and so forth. chemical weapons dont define weapons of mass destruction, though it can be a part of it. We still never found weapons of mass destruction in Iraqi. But look we are one of the countries that gave Sadam chemical weapons, but we gave to him after Sadam went to war with Iran. Sadam was our one of our allies until he went to war with kuwaitt. So if Bush would have said we are going to war because he was killing his people and he had chemical weapons, I wouldn't call him a liar.

[Mike Lowrey]

look weapons of mass destruction is more like war heads and so forth. chemical weapons dont define weapons of mass destruction, though it can be a part of it. We still never found weapons of mass destruction in Iraqi. But look we are one of the countries that gave Sadam chemical weapons, but we gave to him after Sadam went to war with Iran. Sadam was our one of our allies until he went to war with kuwaitt. So if Bush would have said we are going to war because he was killing his people and he had chemical weapons, I wouldn't call him a liar.

Check your history of this. The original reason for the war was the fact that the 911 attacks was an "act of war against the US". The ties for the planning, etc of that attack led back to Sadam. :goodjob:

[quickdodge®]

I think Julio is the real villain here. Put some thought processes into this. If Julio hadn't moved here from that little village in Uruguay, he never would have found the Internet. Not finding the Internet, Julio would have not been able to forge his way through with the development if Import Atlanta. Think about it, now. We have all the world's problem's right here under one URLbrella. We have racial wars, sexist people, gay bashing and other human atrocities right here on IA. If Julio had not made that trek across the Southern and into the Northern hemisphere, we would be rid of all that tears the equality of humans apart. I think before we start trespassing into another's problems, we need to focus more on our own and see if we can bring home the peace that should have been here in the first place. Later, QD.

[2.0civic]

Hell the planning and some of the goverment "misses" on the clues happened during the Clinton administration, but nobody says anything about that. All they see is that it happened during the Bush administration, and therefore it is his fault.

People in masses do not think, they react. More americans should start using their own brain and not just automatically beleive what they are told. Self thought and reasoning. That is what is supposed to set us apart from animals!

everyone seems to be forgeting about the first WTC attack that clinton didnt do shit about:rolleyes:

[Mike Lowrey]

I think Julio is the real villain here. Put some thought processes into this. If Julio hadn't moved here from that little village in Uruguay, he never would have found the Internet. Not finding the Internet, Julio would have not been able to forge his way through with the development if Import Atlanta. Think about it, now. We have all the world's problem's right here under one URLbrella. We have racial wars, sexist people, gay bashing and other human atrocities right here on IA. If Julio had not made that trek across the Southern and into the Northern hemisphere, we would be rid of all that tears the equality of humans apart. I think before we start trespassing into another's problems, we need to focus more on our own and see if we can bring home the peace that should have been here in the first place. Later, QD.

:lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao:

Well since you put it that way. Hang Julio! lol

[2.0civic]

Check your history of this. The original reason for the war was the fact that the 911 attacks was an "act of war against the US". The ties for the planning, etc of that attack led back to Sadam. :goodjob:

THANK YOU!!! Thats why i ALWAYS ask for clarification..

Dont beleive EVERYTHING you hear and try to overanalyze it...

Theres always three sides to everything military... Our side, Their side, And the MEDIA....99% of people only hear the media...

[OneSlow5pt0]

everyone seems to be forgeting about the first WTC attack that clinton didnt do shit about:rolleyes:
also people forget that Bill had bin laden captured then they let him go,

[Mike Lowrey]

everyone seems to be forgeting about the first WTC attack that clinton didnt do shit about:rolleyes:

That is because they only listen to what they are told by the media. There is problem number 1.

[ShooterMcGavin]

The ties for the planning, etc of that attack led back to Sadam. :goodjob:

um maybe YOU need to check the facts on that one rich ;)

[2.0civic]

also people forget that Bill had bin laden captured then they let him go,

Lets not forget the real reason bush attacked...







OIL:rolleyes:









But gas is still $3 a gallon


the above statement was made with complete sarcasm:goodjob:

[1000cckiller]

Check your history of this. The original reason for the war was the fact that the 911 attacks was an "act of war against the US". The ties for the planning, etc of that attack led back to Sadam. :goodjob:Acutally you might want to check yours, because if you pay attention to all the media, and other news sources, it was stated that sadam had nothing to do with 9/11. 9/11 has no issue hear. Also I believe they are both villains. We are not the world police,we have our own problems that need to be handled here.

[OneSlow5pt0]

lol,and the gold

[2.0civic]

That is because they only listen to what they are told by the media. There is problem number 1.

\/\/\/\/\/:goodjob:


THANK YOU!!! Thats why i ALWAYS ask for clarification..

Dont beleive EVERYTHING you hear and try to overanalyze it...

Theres always three sides to everything military... Our side, Their side, And the MEDIA....99% of people only hear the media...


\/\/\/\/\/LIRL point proven



Acutally you might want to check yours, because if you pay attention to all the media, and other news sources, it was stated that sadam had nothing to do with 9/11. 9/11 has no issue hear. Also I believe they are both villains. We are not the world police,we have our own problems that need to be handled here.

[OneSlow5pt0]

world police = United Nations,so its not just USA

[Mike Lowrey]

um maybe YOU need to check the facts on that one rich ;)

LOL. :2up: I am typing too fast. Osama......

[2.0civic]

Hypnotoad brings up yet another valid point..

Unless im not retaining my info correctly, how many UN sanctions did sadaam violate?? too bad the US was the only country with balls enough to do anything about it

[1000cckiller]

LOL. :2up: I am typing too fast. Osama......lol

[OneSlow5pt0]

exactly,would yall rather the USA be a pussy country that people just walk over...we have such a good life in the US we are trying to help other countries to be able to live like us


even though i think the US is way to PC

[Mike Lowrey]

Acutally you might want to check yours, because if you pay attention to all the media, and other news sources, it was stated that sadam had nothing to do with 9/11. 9/11 has no issue hear.

See my last post. I do beleive that 911, does have issue here.



Also I believe they are both villains. We are not the world police,we have our own problems that need to be handled here.

Yes, we have problems here. The attack was a problem HERE. The previous terrorist attacks were problems HERE. We also have several other problems in the US that need attention, but that does not mean you can ignore the killing of several thousand people!

The US has been "meddling" in other countries for many years. They have surely meddled too much on several instances. i.e. Saddam. The US chose sides, supplied him weapons and he took over control of the country. We basically took the lesser of two evils at the time. That is not the first time we have done this.

[Jaimecbr900]

What_lag: you are so misinformed is scary.

People need to quit being herded by the biased media and learn to read and reason on their own. The media is twisted to the far left, therefore they will never show you things down the middle because that doesn't sell.

Exactly HOW is Bush a "villain"? Explain your thought process on that.

Exactly HOW is Saddam NOT?

How many people has BUSH killed with his own hands?

How is the world BETTER off WITH Saddam than with Bush?

How come when Bush did what his advisers TOLD him to, i.e. they have WMD's so let's go after them, he has to take all the blame YET when he learned his lesson and is trying to FINISH a job HIS FATHER and BILL no balls CLINTON didn't finish W/O the backing of those same "advisers" who now are merely trying to do "damage control" for THEIR initial screw up......suddenly BUSH is the bad guy??? What would any of YOU do if YOUR buddy told you something that ended up being a lie? Would you listen to him again? Would you do what he wanted you to do again? Why should the President do any different?

Bottomline is that WMD's or not, Saddam not only violated the surrender treaty HE signed when we were kicking his ass back in 91, but he also violated a million other HUMAN RIGHTS thoroughout his decades of terror on not only his own people but neighboring countries. What purpose does someone like that serve? Why shouldn't he be dethroned? Do you think he would've gone quietly??? It's obvious you and many others don't know HOW Saddam came to power......well, he not only murdered his opposition, but also betrayed even his own family members to get to the top.

So if you have even an ounce of common sense, you would know the answer to this question rather easily. There is no comparison between the two.

[Mike Lowrey]

Hypnotoad brings up yet another valid point..

Unless im not retaining my info correctly, how many UN sanctions did sadaam violate?? too bad the US was the only country with balls enough to do anything about it

x1,000

The UN can be a joke sometimes. They put in place sanctions, they are ignored, and the UN doesn't know what to do..... :rolleyes:

[JoeCoolinATL]

This is my last question for a minute. I want to know who ya'll think the biggest villain is, is it Bush or Sadam. After watching the special on National Geographic last night, I saw how much of a villain sadam was. But in my eyes Bush is a villain too. Bush to me lead us to a war for reasons people still dont know, and has pretty much turn his party against him. Sadam was a villain to his own people which to me that is his own countries fault, for allowing him to abuse them. Our country can't be the police for everyone's problems. I would like to hear others imput.


wow
i swear to god kids these days are some of the most uninformed/horribly educated / believe mtv as news generation. i pity our future.

[1000cckiller]

But on the real, how many of ya'll have had friends die in this war, I have had three. Its not cool, but I have many other friends in the army, who dont agree with the war either. There are other groups fighting in Iraqi because they want independence. Also in Sadams later years as President he only had control of 2/3 of his country, the rest were rebeling against him.

[OneSlow5pt0]

also i think it was bout 2001 when all the people wanted to go to war,it reminded me of what happened when everyone wanted to go to war in vietnam.

[1000cckiller]

What_lag: you are so misinformed is scary.

People need to quit being herded by the biased media and learn to read and reason on their own. The media is twisted to the far left, therefore they will never show you things down the middle because that doesn't sell.

Exactly HOW is Bush a "villain"? Explain your thought process on that.

Exactly HOW is Saddam NOT?

How many people has BUSH killed with his own hands?

How is the world BETTER off WITH Saddam than with Bush?

How come when Bush did what his advisers TOLD him to, i.e. they have WMD's so let's go after them, he has to take all the blame YET when he learned his lesson and is trying to FINISH a job HIS FATHER and BILL no balls CLINTON didn't finish W/O the backing of those same "advisers" who now are merely trying to do "damage control" for THEIR initial screw up......suddenly BUSH is the bad guy??? What would any of YOU do if YOUR buddy told you something that ended up being a lie? Would you listen to him again? Would you do what he wanted you to do again? Why should the President do any different?

Bottomline is that WMD's or not, Saddam not only violated the surrender treaty HE signed when we were kicking his ass back in 91, but he also violated a million other HUMAN RIGHTS thoroughout his decades of terror on not only his own people but neighboring countries. What purpose does someone like that serve? Why shouldn't he be dethroned? Do you think he would've gone quietly??? It's obvious you and many others don't know HOW Saddam came to power......well, he not only murdered his opposition, but also betrayed even his own family members to get to the top.

So if you have even an ounce of common sense, you would know the answer to this question rather easily. There is no comparison between the two.When did I say Sadam wasnt a villain. also you dont have to kill people to be a villain.

[Atlanta_521]

I think the question to be asked is if it would have been better off for the U.S. NOT to have invaded Iraq.
Personally I think we should have stayed in Afghanistan and obliterated Al-qaeda before invading any other country that sponsored terrorism. (not that there's proof available to the public that Iraq was indeed a breeding ground for terrorists)

[1000cckiller]

wow
i swear to god kids these days are some of the most uninformed/horribly educated / believe mtv as news generation. i pity our future.Buddy how old are you, and what possible have you been through. I dont get shit from mtv nor do i believe in mtv. And for most people all get their facts from pretty much the same places, they just might not retain it the same way.

[Mike Lowrey]

But on the real, how many of ya'll have had friends die in this war, I have had three. Its not cool, but I have many other friends in the army, who dont agree with the war either.

No, I do not know anyone who has died in the war. Are you blaming their deaths on Bush? Your friends wanted to serve their country, and eventually died for their country. I respect every man and woman in the military as they maintain my freedom.


There are other groups fighting in Iraqi because they want independence. Also in Sadams later years as President he only had control of 2/3 of his country, the rest were rebeling against him.

Um, Saddam is a dictator, not a president. He was not elected.

[2.0civic]

But on the real, how many of ya'll have had friends die in this war, I have had three. Its not cool, but I have many other friends in the army, who dont agree with the war either. There are other groups fighting in Iraqi because they want independence. Also in Sadams later years as President he only had control (http:///#) of 2/3 of his country, the rest were rebeling against him.

if they dont agree with it, they shouldnt have enlisted:2cents:

If i enlist in the services i WANT to go kick some ass.

BTW, Ive had two marine friends die also...by IED's

[1000cckiller]

I think the question to be asked is if it would have been better off for the U.S. NOT to invade Iraq. Personally I think we should have stayed in Afghanistan and obliterated Al-qaeda before invading any other country that sponsored terrorism. (not that there's proof available to the public that Iraq was indeed a breeding ground for terrorists)
I agree with you there, but we just invade somalia because they supposedly were haboring terroist

[OneSlow5pt0]

No, I do not know anyone who has died in the war. Are you blaming their deaths on Bush? Your friends wanted to serve their country, and eventually died for their country. I respect every man and woman in the military as they maintain my freedom.



Um, Saddam is a dictator, not a president. He was not elected.



hate to tell people in this thread but Sadam= hitler in the middle east,lol

[2.0civic]

No, I do not know anyone who has died in the war. Are you blaming their deaths on Bush? Your friends wanted to serve their country, and eventually died for their country. I respect every man and woman in the military as they maintain my freedom.





x2

Fuckers enlist thinking "sweet, ill take the $xxxx go to college and not have to do shit but sit on my ass after basic"

Ignorant ass people

[OneSlow5pt0]

also i know 4 people in special forces and couple in marines and all of them are all for the cause have been through the thick of the Iraq war

[2.0civic]

I agree with you there, but we just invade somalia because they supposedly were haboring terroist

go watch black hawk down again:goodjob:

You really need to go take a 80's-2000 history course

[1000cckiller]

Man there are tons of people who dont agree with it in the service, but they have to do their job weather they believe in it or not.

[OneSlow5pt0]

lol,think their needs to be a 1942-07 leason,

[2.0civic]

Man there are tons of people who dont agree with it in the service, but they have to do their job (#) weather they believe in it or not.

its as simple as this...dont agree with it, dont enlist...

If you enlisted after 01, you knew what you were getting into

[JoeCoolinATL]

Buddy how old are you, and what possible have you been through. I dont get shit from mtv nor do i believe in mtv. And for most people all get their facts from pretty much the same places, they just might not retain it the same way.

how old am i?
older than the majority of the users.
what have i been thru/where have i been?
lots. lots.

[Atlanta_521]

Was it worth it? Invading Iraq? What have we gained? What have been the opportunity costs?


THE FUCKING DEATHS BECAUSE OF THIS WAR SUPER-EXCEED ANYTHING THAT SADDAM HAS AND COULD HAVE DONE.

[OneSlow5pt0]

also Bush hates black people......................LOL

[2.0civic]

Was it worth it? Invading Iraq? What have we gained? What have been the opportunity costs?


THE FUCKING DEATHS BECAUSE OF THIS WAR SUPER-EXCEED ANYTHING THAT SADDAM has AND COULD HAVE DONE.how many people did sadaam kill?? How many troops have died?? i can almost gurantee the ratio is close to 100:1 if not higher

[Mike Lowrey]

Man there are tons of people who dont agree with it in the service,

You may have to sit down for this one....

No everyone will agree with every decision that the government makes. :goodjob:


but they have to do their job weather they believe in it or not.

because, that is what they signed up to do.

[2.0civic]

Was it worth it? Invading Iraq? What have we gained? What have been the opportunity costs?


THE FUCKING DEATHS BECAUSE OF THIS WAR SUPER-EXCEED ANYTHING THAT SADDAM HAS AND COULD HAVE DONE.

you were like 10 when the war started...your opinion doesnt count

[Atlanta_521]

how many people did sadaam kill?? How many troops have died?? i can almost gurantee the ratio is close to 100:1 if not higher
SO ONLY THE LIVES OF THE TROOPS MATTER? Think civilian casualties and those tramautized by the ongoing war!

[2.0civic]

You may have to sit down for this one....

No everyone will agree with every decision that the government makes. :goodjob:



because, that is what they signed up to do.

no way......:eek:

[OneSlow5pt0]

sadam has killed over 500k people........i doubt the iraq toll is any way round that

[2.0civic]

SO ONLY THE LIVES OF THE TROOPS MATTER? Think civilian casualties and those tramautized by the ongoing war!

LOL and their lives were better before we went?:rolleyes:

LIRLOLOLOLOL im dying here...If we pull out, that country is going to go to hell

[1000cckiller]

you were like 10 when the war started...your opinion doesnt countumm you were just a young also. youngn

[1000cckiller]

LOL and their lives were better before we went?:rolleyes:

LIRLOLOLOLOL im dying here...If we pull out, that country is going to go to hellthat country is still hell with us there.

[Mike Lowrey]

Was it worth it? Invading Iraq? What have we gained? What have been the opportunity costs?

YES!


THE FUCKING DEATHS BECAUSE OF THIS WAR SUPER-EXCEED ANYTHING THAT SADDAM HAS AND COULD HAVE DONE.

By your reasoning, we should stop trying to catch murderers, rapists, drug dealers, etc because they might shoot and kill a cop. Since we don't want any cops to die, we should not persue them.

Would that be worth it?

[OneSlow5pt0]

YES!



By your reasoning, we should stop trying to catch murderers, rapists, drug dealers, etc because they might shoot and kill a cop. Since we don't want any cops to die, we should not persue them.

Would that be worth it?

lol,i couldnt be a cop..cause i would put a cap in the first fucker that ran

[2.0civic]

umm you were just a young also. youngn

im almost 3 years older than you:goodjob:

I was in high school and had friends and family actually going into military at the time, not in 5th grade

[1000cckiller]

sadam has killed over 500k people........i doubt the iraq toll is any way round that :umno: more like 300k, but thats still bad too.

[Jaimecbr900]

When did I say Sadam wasnt a villain. also you dont have to kill people to be a villain.

When you asked the original question. I don't think you really know what the definition of "villain" is.

Here it is:

vil·lain
–noun
1. a cruelly malicious person who is involved in or devoted to wickedness or crime; scoundrel.
2. a character in a play, novel, or the like, who constitutes an important evil agency in the plot.


Just exactly what part of that definition fits Bush? In turn, does #1 not fit Saddam like a glove? So again, I don't think you realize what the true definition of what you're asking is.

I think you don't agree with the war. That is perfectly fine and acceptable, but what you really should ask yourself is not so much WHY we went to war with Iraq as much as HOW the U.S. and the rest of the world (a world that was too coward to make Saddam abide by the rules yet now will benefit from US doing it) will be better off w/o this guy.

BTW, your friends have to understand that when they enlisted in the Armed Forces their Commander-in-Chief is the President. Like it or not, that's the chain of command. If he says fight, you fight. So if they're not happy doing what their superiors tell them to, they certainly got into the wrong line of work. With that said, I still respect every enlisted person for doing something a lot of us choose not to do.

[Mike Lowrey]

:umno: more like 300k, but thats still bad too.

Do ya think?!


[/SARCASM]

[1000cckiller]

When you asked the original question. I don't think you really know what the definition of "villain" is.

Here it is:

vil·lain
–noun
1. a cruelly malicious person who is involved in or devoted to wickedness or crime; scoundrel.
2. a character in a play, novel, or the like, who constitutes an important evil agency in the plot.


Just exactly what part of that definition fits Bush? In turn, does #1 not fit Saddam like a glove? So again, I don't think you realize what the true definition of what you're asking is.

I think you don't agree with the war. That is perfectly fine and acceptable, but what you really should ask yourself is not so much WHY we went to war with Iraq as much as HOW the U.S. and the rest of the world (a world that was too coward to make Saddam abide by the rules yet now will benefit from US doing it) will be better off w/o this guy.

BTW, your friends have to understand that when they enlisted in the Armed Forces their Commander-in-Chief is the President. Like it or not, that's the chain of command. If he says fight, you fight. So if they're not happy doing what their superiors tell them to, they certainly got into the wrong line of work. With that said, I still respect every enlisted person for doing something a lot of us choose not to do.where does it say you have to kill people to be a villain

[OneSlow5pt0]

their has been 3k US deaths in the war

[Atlanta_521]

YES!



By your reasoning, we should stop trying to catch murderers, rapists, drug dealers, etc because they might shoot and kill a cop. Since we don't want any cops to die, we should not persue them.

Would that be worth it?
Your logic is cloudy buddy.
Think of it as killing every single murder, rapist, drug dealer, etc.

I just think a much more diplomatic approach could have been taken by the government to prevent war. WE WERE THE AGRESSORS.

IF SADAM HAD TO BE TAKEN OUT WE SURE AS HELL FUCKED UP ON THE TIMING.

[1000cckiller]

im almost 3 years older than you:goodjob:

I was in high school and had friends and family actually going into military at the time, not in 5th gradeyou were born in 1987, I was born in 1980 do the math how are you three years older than me.

[Mike Lowrey]

where does it say you have to kill people to be a villain

Where are your facts/details that show Bush fitting any of the definition of a villian.


~awaits facts~

[2.0civic]

I found atlanta 521's mug shot

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j309/cnassassin1/osama.jpg

[OneSlow5pt0]

Your logic is cloudy buddy.
Think of it as killing every single murder, rapist, drug dealer, etc.

I just think a much more diplomatic approach could have been taken by the government to prevent war.


sounds like a good plan to me,id vote for the pres that did that

[2.0civic]

you were born in 1987, I was born in 1980 do the math how are you three years older than me.

my bad, lol im going blind..i thought it said december 1989:goodjob: :doh:

[tony]

I wouldn't necessarily call Bush a hero but a Villain? I'm sure it depends on who you ask, I wish he was as adamant about dealing with domestic issues than pushing democracy across the world. The irony of it is that the U.S itself is not a true democracy.

Saddam.. this will piss some of you off but I do not think he was a direct threat to the U.S and there are a lot of politics in what happened to him. Should he have suffered for what he did? Yes.. but I'm not 100% on whether it was our responsibility.

[ShooterMcGavin]

sadam has killed over 500k people........i doubt the iraq toll is any way round that
props to him for helping keep world population in check? :lmao:

[2.0civic]

Your logic is cloudy buddy.
Think of it as killing every single murder, rapist, drug dealer (#), etc.

I just think a much more diplomatic approach could have been taken by the government to prevent war. WE WERE THE AGRESSORS.

IF SADAM HAD TO BE TAKEN OUT WE SURE AS HELL FUCKED UP ON THE TIMING.

sounds like a plan to me...otherwise, we spend more money for them to sit and get 3 hots and a cot...fuck that...eye for an eye and this world would be better off:goodjob:

[OneSlow5pt0]

sounds like a plan to me...otherwise, we spend more money for them to sit and get 3 hots and a cot...fuck that...eye for an eye and this world would be better off:goodjob:


lol,same thing i said

[Atlanta_521]

sounds like a plan to me...otherwise, we spend more money for them to sit and get 3 hots and a cot...fuck that...eye for an eye and this world would be better off:goodjob:
An Eye For An Eye Makes The Whole World Blind. Ghandi FTW

[2.0civic]

I wouldn't necessarily call Bush a hero but a Villain? I'm sure it depends on who you ask, I wish he was as adamant about dealing with domestic issues than pushing democracy across the world. The irony of it is that the U.S itself is not a true democracy.

Saddam.. this will piss some of you off but I do not think he was a direct threat to the U.S and there are a lot of politics in what happened to him. Should he have suffered for what he did? Yes.. but I'm not 100% on whether it was our responsibility.

Although i disagree with you, atleast you presented it in a respectable manner:goodjob:

[2.0civic]

An Eye For An Eye Makes The Whole World Blind. Ghandi FTW

Oh well..so be it

[Mike Lowrey]

Your logic is cloudy buddy.
Think of it as killing every single murder, rapist, drug dealer, etc.

My logic stands just fine. Re-read.



I just think a much more diplomatic approach could have been taken by the government to prevent war. WE WERE THE AGRESSORS.

Were we? What about the attack on Kuwait? What about ignoring the sactions by the UN? You may want to think about that statement a little more. :goodjob:


IF SADAM HAD TO BE TAKEN OUT WE SURE AS HELL FUCKED UP ON THE TIMING.

Well, we should not have stopped short of getting Saddam back in the early '90's. I have always thought that to be a BIG mistake. Had we continued until he was gone, there are a lot of things that would have been better.

[OneSlow5pt0]

yep,we shouldnt havent cut and ran in desert storm

[ShooterMcGavin]

Well, we should not have stopped short of getting Saddam back in the early '90's. I have always thought that to be a BIG mistake. Had we continued until he was gone, there are a lot of things that would have been better.

agreed, 100%. but going back in before afghanistan was taken care of was a HUGE fucking mistake. one that we're still paying for now and the ppl of iraq and afghanistan are also paying for.

[Atlanta_521]

The middle east has always been a big pile of shit. Had we left it alone we wouldn't be sitting in shit now would we? Maybe they'd flick some shit at us from afar but a bit of shit is better than a lot of shit.

[1000cckiller]

my bad, lol im going blind..i thought it said december 1989:goodjob: :doh:its cool, I like debating about issues. All of yall some cool people though.

[2.0civic]

The middle east has always been a big pile of shit. Had we left it alone we wouldn't be sitting in shit now would we? Maybe they'd flick some shit at us from afar but a bit of shit is better than a lot of shit.

and gas would be $10 a gallon

[OneSlow5pt0]

i can tell u one thing,we would be in worse shape right now if kerry was preident

[Atlanta_521]

and gas would be $10 a gallon
That's when I say fuck wild life and drill Alaska and make peace with Venezuela. God knows Latin America needs the $ more than the middle east.

[1000cckiller]

I wouldn't necessarily call Bush a hero but a Villain? I'm sure it depends on who you ask, I wish he was as adamant about dealing with domestic issues than pushing democracy across the world. The irony of it is that the U.S itself is not a true democracy.

Saddam.. this will piss some of you off but I do not think he was a direct threat to the U.S and there are a lot of politics in what happened to him. Should he have suffered for what he did? Yes.. but I'm not 100% on whether it was our responsibility.I completely agree with you Tony and you know that rarely happens. Sadam should have suffered without a doubt, but that wasnt our problem to solve, the U.N. should have dealt with that.

[1000cckiller]

i can tell u one thing,we would be in worse shape right now if kerry was preidentnow I do agree with that.

[Mike Lowrey]

The middle east has always been a big pile of shit. Had we left it alone we wouldn't be sitting in shit now would we? Maybe they'd flick some shit at us from afar but a bit of shit is better than a lot of shit.

:rolleyes: There is so much stupidity here, I will not waste my time disecting it.

[Mike Lowrey]

I completely agree with you Tony and you know that rarely happens. Sadam should have suffered without a doubt, but that wasnt our problem to solve, the U.N. should have dealt with that.

The UN would still be trying to figure out what to do. :goodjob:

[Jaimecbr900]

Was it worth it? Invading Iraq? What have we gained? What have been the opportunity costs?


THE FUCKING DEATHS BECAUSE OF THIS WAR SUPER-EXCEED ANYTHING THAT SADDAM HAS AND COULD HAVE DONE.

You have absolutely no clue about this and it seems many other subjects.

Since when does HUNDREDS of THOSANDS of people that Saddam has killed compare to the 3300 or so U.S. casualties??? Obviously our public school math programs need a lot of work if that's your logic.

Saddam has been clawing his way up the ranks since he nothing but a worthless street thug in the 50's and 60's. Do you even know that he murdered THOUSANDS of people? Do you not know that he was tried, convicted, and sentenced to death for only 148 of those? Do you even know that he TAUGHT his sons the acts of torture, rape, and murder when they were pre-teens?

You sir are a very misinformed and immature youth that needs to learn how to think for yourself and do your own research. Here, I'll help you get started: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddam_Hussein

Read a little bit of that. Read a lot more that is out there. Quit listening to whatever misinformed people you are listening to because they have no clue what reality is as neither do you.

[Mike Lowrey]

i can tell u one thing,we would be in worse shape right now if kerry was preident

:lmfao: Thank you, Captain Obvious!

lol j/p

I agree 100%

[OneSlow5pt0]

and when we say the people sadam killed were talking bout men women and kids,that were raped and tortued to death....not being shot in battle

[Atlanta_521]

The UN would still be trying to figure out what to do. :goodjob:
That's better than where we're at now. It's not like Sadam was going to start slaughtering hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and launching nuclear missles.


*lets not forget the civilian causalties in Iraq..

[2.0civic]

The UN would still be trying to figure out what to do. :goodjob:

which is why we had to go do everything:goodjob:

Jaime with yet another excellent post

[ShooterMcGavin]

and what exactly ARE we doing? things aren't any better since we've arrived there and we have no good plan on how to get the fuck out....sitting and deciding what to do w/o having sunk in a shit ton of money and lives doesn't seem so bad at all if u ask me

[Mike Lowrey]

That's better than where we're at now. It's not like Sadam was going to start slaughtering hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and launching nuclear missles.

You are still lost. Saddam is dead. That is better than him being alive and able to kill more people.

[Atlanta_521]

My point is this war is nothing but loss-loss..
The Sunnis and shi'ites will fight till the death after we leave.

[TIGERJC]

No doubt Saddam is the biggest Villain.

Bush started a war on a lie and with no real plan, and now we are stuck there just trying to keep Iraq from going completely into chaos. Now Iraq is a bigger threat to us than when Saddam was in power. Is Bush a awful president? Yes, but even his stupidity cant even come close to the horrors Saddam has committed.

[OneSlow5pt0]

also,the guys i know in the special forces,told me that the Iraq people love the americans and want them to stay and help them rebuild the country..they dont want them out

[tony]

I completely agree with you Tony and you know that rarely happens. Sadam should have suffered without a doubt, but that wasnt our problem to solve, the U.N. should have dealt with that.

A couple of things to remember when it comes to Iraq and Saddam:

The Reagan administration aided Iraq with $40 Billion during the Iran-Iraq conflict. Iran could have taken care of this supposed problem before Desert Storm, strange that we now see Iran as a threat.

People like to think George Sr. and George W. are similar but when it came to the conflict in Iraq they could not be any more different. During Desert Storm we went in working multilaterally with other countries, the objective was to keep Iraq out of Kuwait.. not go after Saddam so those who complain about not getting the job done the first time, blame Sr for not going out on a limb.

[ShooterMcGavin]

You are still lost. Saddam is dead. That is better than him being alive and able to kill more people.
lol, but at least w/saddam alive, ppl KNEW who was out to get them and kill them. now they don't have the slightest fucking clue, it could be any fuckhead extremist suicide bomber hitting up markets, schools, police stations...

[ShooterMcGavin]

A couple of things to remember when it comes to Iraq and Saddam:

The Reagan administration aided Iraq with $40 Billion during the Iran-Iraq conflict. Iran could have taken care of this supposed problem before Desert Storm, strange that we now see Iran as a threat.

People like to think George Sr. and George W. are similar but when it came to the conflict in Iraq they could not be any more different. During Desert Storm we went in working multilaterally with other countries, the objective was to keep Iraq out of Kuwait.. not go after Saddam so those who complain about not getting the job done the first time, blame Sr for not going out on a limb.
nothing new there, just like how the US used to give funds and equipment to afghan "freedom fighters" when they were combating the russians...

[Jaimecbr900]

The middle east has always been a big pile of shit. Had we left it alone we wouldn't be sitting in shit now would we? Maybe they'd flick some shit at us from afar but a bit of shit is better than a lot of shit.

You are a moron of infinite proportions.

Exactly how "far" is NY? Where did the 9/11 terrorists COME FROM, genius? Middle East, right? So how can you even remotely say that they would only "flick shit from AFAR" when they came HERE to kill THOUSANDS OF INNOCENT PEOPLE?

You are a true blue Democrat. You would have us pacify and sit on our hands while they plot to come over, yet again, and kill thousands more all in the name of "world peace"..... :rolleyes: Sounds more like a canned beauty pageant answer to me than a solution.

The U.N. sat and did nothing, the rest of the world sat and did nothing, what RESULTS did that net us? NOTHING. He did what he damn well pleased and told every damn person he could that's EXACTLY what he was doing. That's part of why Saddam was so popular to Arabs was BECAUSE he "stood up" to the big bad Westerners. So just like any other ego maniac, he played right into that by proclaiming his own intentions and turning them around to be a "Holy war" against the West who is trying to take away our religion and peaceful way of being...... :blah: :blah: :blah: ....HITLER used the exact same propaganda to help his own cause too.

You have no clue what you are talking about. Go back and read the link I gave you in my last post, maybe you'll learn something finally. :rolleyes:

[Atlanta_521]

How about we all come to the mutual agreement that the war was a fuck up?

[OneSlow5pt0]

also,what if we would have never fought in WW2...this might be United states of Germany

[1000cckiller]

No doubt Saddam is the biggest Villain.

Bush started a war on a lie and with no real plan, and now we are stuck there just trying to keep Iraq from going completely into chaos. Now Iraq is a bigger threat to us than when Saddam was in power. Is Bush a awful president? Yes, but even his stupidity cant even come close to the horrors Saddam has committed.I will agree with you here garfield

[Atlanta_521]

You are a moron of infinite proportions.

Exactly how "far" is NY? Where did the 9/11 terrorists COME FROM, genius? Middle East, right? So how can you even remotely say that they would only "flick shit from AFAR" when they came HERE to kill THOUSANDS OF INNOCENT PEOPLE?

You are a true blue Democrat. You would have us pacify and sit on our hands while they plot to come over, yet again, and kill thousands more all in the name of "world peace"..... :rolleyes: Sounds more like a canned beauty pageant answer to me than a solution.

The U.N. sat and did nothing, the rest of the world sat and did nothing, what RESULTS did that net us? NOTHING. He did what he damn well pleased and told every damn person he could that's EXACTLY what he was doing. That's part of why Saddam was so popular to Arabs was BECAUSE he "stood up" to the big bad Westerners. So just like any other ego maniac, he played right into that by proclaiming his own intentions and turning them around to be a "Holy war" against the West who is trying to take away our religion and peaceful way of being...... :blah: :blah: :blah: ....HITLER used the exact same propaganda to help his own cause too.

You have no clue what you are talking about. Go back and read the link I gave you in my last post, maybe you'll learn something finally. :rolleyes:
Just a second now... Exactly what are you advocating here?
Have you ever wondered "what if" we talked and reasoned with these terrorist and fond out what the fuck they want. I'm pretty sure with the whole world watching they wouldn't say "we want America to die, dissapear, etc.. but then again who negotiates with terrorists? That's where we fuck up, what the hell do they want? Do they really just want to blow the U.S. to bits and peices? I don't think they'd say the same shit if we were to negotiate with them.

[tony]

nothing new there, just like how the US used to give funds and equipment to afghan "freedom fighters" when they were combating the russians...

I stated that because everyone wants to point fingers but nobody wants to take responsibility. Saddam wouldn't have been as powerful if it wasn't for the U.S so yeah he may be a villain but in a lot of ways we empowered that villain.

Heres the thing, just as we didnt expect guerilla warfare in vietnam we are dealing with an enemy that doesn't care about humanity and they don't fight face to face. These people will lay dormant for years till America becomes comfortable again and all is good and then strike again. Domestic security should be the major issue, when a man with a life threatening disease is black listed and STILL makes it back into the country.. we have a greater problem than getting Iraq to adopt democracy.

[OneSlow5pt0]

Just a second now... Exactly what are you advocating here?
Have you ever wondered "what if" we talked and reasoned with these terrorist and find out what the fuck they want. I'm pretty sure with the whole world watching they wouldn't say "we want America to die, dissapear, etc.. but then again who negotiates with terrorists? That's where we fuck up, what the hell do they want? Do they really just want to blow the U.S. to bits and peices? I don't think they'd say the same shit if we were to negotiate with them.


do u not understand when u have a holy war,their is no way out but death

[Atlanta_521]

do u not understand when u have a holy war,their is no way out but deathHow about we negotiate to end this holy war so that death isn't the only way out.....
We'll give them their 72 virgins, a mosque, a Saab, budlight, and call it a day.

[Jaimecbr900]

A couple of things to remember when it comes to Iraq and Saddam:

The Reagan administration aided Iraq with $40 Billion during the Iran-Iraq conflict. Iran could have taken care of this supposed problem before Desert Storm, strange that we now see Iran as a threat.

People like to think George Sr. and George W. are similar but when it came to the conflict in Iraq they could not be any more different. During Desert Storm we went in working multilaterally with other countries, the objective was to keep Iraq out of Kuwait.. not go after Saddam so those who complain about not getting the job done the first time, blame Sr for not going out on a limb.

A couple of other things to remember too:

Who were the U.S. supposed to help? The country that had just kidnapped it's citizens and has been overthrown by radical Muslims or the country fighting against that??? It's a very logical answer. Would you of rather fight one weakened country 20 yrs later or 2 strong united countries then? It would have been WWIII.

The reason why Sr. had the backing of other countries in Gulf War I was because Iraq INVADED Kuwait. We beat their ass then. They surrendered. They signed a treaty which outlined specifically what they HAD to do. They didn't do it. 10 years later the U.N. was still playing pacifist about it. 10 damn years later. Not 1, not 5, 10 damn years to comply and STILL didn't. The U.N. is to blame for Iraq more than anyone else. Had THEY done what they are there TO do, this wouldn't be a unilateral fight.....it would be called Gulf War II. But as it is, the U.S. was the only one that was willing to go out on that preverbial limb and do what SHOULD have been done long ago.

Rules and laws have to have teeth or they are not worth the paper they're printed on. U.N. sanctions have no teeth. This is why countries like Iraq, Iran, N.Korea, China, and Russia wipe their asses with "U.N. sanctions". Hell, I would too if I were them. What consequences do they get? Worse interest on loans from world banks, no aid for a little bit, no voice in the U.N., maybe a big :tongue1: would really hurt their feelings???? :rolleyes: The U.N. is a joke, period. They do nothing but grand stand and talk out of both sides of their mouth. They are like a chihuahua with no teeth. They can bark all damn day long, but at the end of the day nobody is really scared of them.

[1000cckiller]

I stated that because everyone wants to point fingers but nobody wants to take responsibility. Saddam wouldn't have been as powerful if it wasn't for the U.S so yeah he may be a villain but in a lot of ways we empowered that villain.

Heres the thing, just as we didnt expect guerilla warfare in vietnam we are dealing with an enemy that doesn't care about humanity and they don't fight face to face. These people will lay dormant for years till America becomes comfortable again and all is good and then strike again. Domestic security should be the major issue, when a man with a life threatening disease is black listed and STILL makes it back into the country.. we have a greater problem than getting Iraq to adopt democracy.we were part of the problem because we was one of the countries that provided him with chemical weapons. so yes we are part of the problem that made him a villian. But is it not true that Bush sr. and osama had dealings with each other before. Before Jr came to office.

[Mike Lowrey]

Just a second now... Exactly what are you advocating here?
Have you ever wondered "what if" we talked and reasoned with these terrorist and fond out what the fuck they want. I'm pretty sure with the whole world watching they wouldn't say "we want America to die, dissapear, etc.. but then again who negotiates with terrorists? That's where we fuck up, what the hell do they want? Do they really just want to blow the U.S. to bits and peices? I don't think they'd say the same shit if we were to negotiate with them.

:lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao:

You are surely the dumbest person I have ever seen.

What do the terrorists want? The want the americans dead! Is that clear enough?

How do you negotiate or reason with someone who is declaring a "holy war" against the western people, and telling his own people that we want to take their religion? How to you reason with someone who is so "into" the cause that they will commit suicide just to kill americans?

I vote that you go over there and try to "negotiate" with the terrorists. I am curious how far you get.

[OneSlow5pt0]

A couple of other things to remember too:

Who were the U.S. supposed to help? The country that had just kidnapped it's citizens and has been overthrown by radical Muslims or the country fighting against that??? It's a very logical answer. Would you of rather fight one weakened country 20 yrs later or 2 strong united countries then? It would have been WWIII.

The reason why Sr. had the backing of other countries in Gulf War I was because Iraq INVADED Kuwait. We beat their ass then. They surrendered. They signed a treaty which outlined specifically what they HAD to do. They didn't do it. 10 years later the U.N. was still playing pacifist about it. 10 damn years later. Not 1, not 5, 10 damn years to comply and STILL didn't. The U.N. is to blame for Iraq more than anyone else. Had THEY done what they are there TO do, this wouldn't be a unilateral fight.....it would be called Gulf War II. But as it is, the U.S. was the only one that was willing to go out on that preverbial limb and do what SHOULD have been done long ago.

Rules and laws have to have teeth or they are not worth the paper they're printed on. U.N. sanctions have no teeth. This is why countries like Iraq, Iran, N.Korea, China, and Russia wipe their asses with "U.N. sanctions". Hell, I would too if I were them. What consequences do they get? Worse interest on loans from world banks, no aid for a little bit, no voice in the U.N., maybe a big :tongue1: would really hurt their feelings???? :rolleyes: The U.N. is a joke, period. They do nothing but grand stand and talk out of both sides of their mouth. They are like a chihuahua with no teeth. They can bark all damn day long, but at the end of the day nobody is really scared of them.
:cheers:

i really wish we wernt with them,but we might need thier help one day

[OneSlow5pt0]

:lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao:

You are surely the dumbest person I have ever seen.

What do the terrorists want? The want the americans dead! Is that clear enough?

How do you negotiate or reason with someone who is declaring a "holy war" against the western people, and telling his own people that we want to take their religion? How to you reason with someone who is so "into" the cause that they will commit suicide just to kill americans?

I vote that you go over there and try to "negotiate" with the terrorists. I am curious how far you get.

lol,


Hey, im from America...BOOM! dead,lol

[1000cckiller]

A couple of other things to remember too:

Who were the U.S. supposed to help? The country that had just kidnapped it's citizens and has been overthrown by radical Muslims or the country fighting against that??? It's a very logical answer. Would you of rather fight one weakened country 20 yrs later or 2 strong united countries then? It would have been WWIII.

The reason why Sr. had the backing of other countries in Gulf War I was because Iraq INVADED Kuwait. We beat their ass then. They surrendered. They signed a treaty which outlined specifically what they HAD to do. They didn't do it. 10 years later the U.N. was still playing pacifist about it. 10 damn years later. Not 1, not 5, 10 damn years to comply and STILL didn't. The U.N. is to blame for Iraq more than anyone else. Had THEY done what they are there TO do, this wouldn't be a unilateral fight.....it would be called Gulf War II. But as it is, the U.S. was the only one that was willing to go out on that preverbial limb and do what SHOULD have been done long ago.

Rules and laws have to have teeth or they are not worth the paper they're printed on. U.N. sanctions have no teeth. This is why countries like Iraq, Iran, N.Korea, China, and Russia wipe their asses with "U.N. sanctions". Hell, I would too if I were them. What consequences do they get? Worse interest on loans from world banks, no aid for a little bit, no voice in the U.N., maybe a big :tongue1: would really hurt their feelings???? :rolleyes: The U.N. is a joke, period. They do nothing but grand stand and talk out of both sides of their mouth. They are like a chihuahua with no teeth. They can bark all damn day long, but at the end of the day nobody is really scared of them.Yes that is true, but if the U.N. doesnt step their ass up something needs to be done with them. Because we dont need to fight others battles because it can cause us problems in the long run.

[Mike Lowrey]

lol,


Hey, im from America...BOOM! dead,lol

:lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao:

Exactly! :lmfao:

[Jaimecbr900]

Just a second now... Exactly what are you advocating here?

If you don't get it by now, you never will.


Have you ever wondered "what if" we talked and reasoned with these terrorist and fond out what the fuck they want.

You are a total idiot. You really are.

So if a burglar knocks on your door, YOU would rather reason with them and try to talk them out of YOUR hard earned property he is trying to STEAL because why.....you're an idiot????

Let me shoot your little dumbass theory right in the head with just one simple question: In your never never land ranch of a mind, just exactly WHO would you sit down at the table from the "terrorists" side?



I'm pretty sure with the whole world watching they wouldn't say "we want America to die, dissapear, etc..

You are even more an idiot. They say that NOW to anyone, including TV and the world, that is EXACTLY what they want. Are you really serious? Do you honestly live under a rock somewhere? What exactly do you think burning American flags and beheading American citizens on TV and dragging their bodies thru the streets leads YOU to believe they have ANY problems telling ANYBODY they want to kill ALL of us, including you. Where have you been in the last century???? You're a big fool if you honestly think the crap that is coming out of your mouth.

Wow, now the other thread makes absolute sense. There really ARE people that are this stupid still left in the world.


but then again who negotiates with terrorists?

Pansy Democrats like you. :rolleyes:


That's where we fuck up, what the hell do they want? Do they really just want to blow the U.S. to bits and peices? I don't think they'd say the same shit if we were to negotiate with them.

You're an idiot if you really believe that load of shit that took did a 180 and came out the wrong hole....... :screwy: :rolleyes:

[OneSlow5pt0]

yea,i hate to break it to people that dont know but 99% of the world hates the USA

[Jaimecbr900]

I vote that you go over there and try to "negotiate" with the terrorists. I am curious how far you get.


That's perfect. My thoughts exactly Rich. :goodjob:

[Mike Lowrey]

yea,i hate to break it to people that dont know but 99% of the world hates the USA

:eek: Ohs no!





:lmfao:

[1000cckiller]

why is that, could it be that we start as allies with them, then the next week we are bombing them.

[OneSlow5pt0]

no,its cause we have such better lives than other counties

[tony]

A couple of other things to remember too:

Who were the U.S. supposed to help? The country that had just kidnapped it's citizens and has been overthrown by radical Muslims or the country fighting against that??? It's a very logical answer. Would you of rather fight one weakened country 20 yrs later or 2 strong united countries then? It would have been WWIII.



But we still ended up with a dictator that killed thousands, so was it really the right choice? On the other hand recently Iran has stuck its hand out to the U.S and we slapped it, Iran aided the U.S after 9/11 in the search for Al Qaeda in Afghanistan. Iran wants to be a superpower like the U.S (which explains their interest in Nuclear Weapons) but contrary to what the media portrays they do not hate us. I know that hindsight is 20/20 but I don't think Saddam really needed billions of dollars in aid from us.


The reason why Sr. had the backing of other countries in Gulf War I was because Iraq INVADED Kuwait. We beat their ass then. They surrendered. They signed a treaty which outlined specifically what they HAD to do. They didn't do it. 10 years later the U.N. was still playing pacifist about it. 10 damn years later. Not 1, not 5, 10 damn years to comply and STILL didn't. The U.N. is to blame for Iraq more than anyone else. Had THEY done what they are there TO do, this wouldn't be a unilateral fight.....it would be called Gulf War II. But as it is, the U.S. was the only one that was willing to go out on that preverbial limb and do what SHOULD have been done long ago.



Which is one of my issues, if the U.S is going to act unilaterally then why adhere to the Geneva Convention? Why care how prisoners are being treated? It goes back to domestic policy, nothing to do with Iraq. If you're going to do it half assed then why do it at all...

I can't say where I stand, democrats want to pull funding which is asinine. Conservatives want to "stay the course" but that is obviously getting us nowhere.. this next election is so serious that words cannot begin to express it, I just hope we elect the right one.

[OneSlow5pt0]

well the US is gonna be fucked cause i think cliton is gonna win

[Mike Lowrey]

I can't say where I stand, democrats want to pull funding which is asinine. Conservatives want to "stay the course" but that is obviously getting us nowhere.. this next election is so serious that words cannot begin to express it, I just hope we elect the right one.

x1,000,000

[Jaimecbr900]

yea,i hate to break it to people that dont know but 99% of the world hates the USA

And you know why, right? Because they all listen to the same media that thinks the U.N. is the ONLY thing that makes sense.

They all think that the U.S. is in Iraq to get cheap oil prices. They all think that the U.S. meddles into other countries affairs, yet when THEY are getting bombed by some extreme group that wants to take THEM over.....WHO do they call FIRST???? THE U.S.

I say we keep a list of all the countries that back us up and the countries that don't. When one of those countries that don't back us up asks for our help.....I say give the a great big :2up: and let them get bombed off the face of the earth. Now, how is that U.N. taste again??? :rolleyes:

The problem we have in this world is that we have way too many sissified pansy pacifists like Atlanta_521 that think that if we ignore the 800lb Gorilla in the room, he'll play nice with us and be our buddy like in the cartoons in our heads.......and then they wake up one day and wonder, "Gee, what happened? Why did this guy bomb me? I didn't see that coming..." Well no shit Dick Tracy, you had your EYES CLOSED dumbass. :rolleyes:

[Atlanta_521]

There's a reason why we're at where we are now. Terrorist aren't savages either, they KNOW they can't take down the U.S. from afar. What have they done? Brought us into their home field and are slowly but surely fucking up an entire generation of soldiers who could be doing something other than being target practice.

[OneSlow5pt0]

And you know why, right? Because they all listen to the same media that thinks the U.N. is the ONLY thing that makes sense.

They all think that the U.S. is in Iraq to get cheap oil prices. They all think that the U.S. meddles into other countries affairs, yet when THEY are getting bombed by some extreme group that wants to take THEM over.....WHO do they call FIRST???? THE U.S.

I say we keep a list of all the countries that back us up and the countries that don't. When one of those countries that don't back us up asks for our help.....I say give the a great big :2up: and let them get bombed off the face of the earth. Now, how is that U.N. taste again??? :rolleyes:

The problem we have in this world is that we have way too many sissified pansy pacifists like Atlanta_521 that think that if we ignore the 800lb Gorilla in the room, he'll play nice with us and be our buddy like in the cartoons in our heads.......and then they wake up one day and wonder, "Gee, what happened? Why did this guy bomb me? I didn't see that coming..." Well no shit Dick Tracy, you had your EYES CLOSED dumbass. :rolleyes:


i agree,everytime we invade..its because they want our help..and useally the US people get word of this and say we should go help...then year later everyone want outs...


a group of people are dumb

[tony]

There's a reason why we're at where we are now. Terrorist aren't savages either, they KNOW they can't take down the U.S. from afar. What have they done? Brought us into their home field and are slowly but surely fucking up an entire generation of soldiers who could be doing something other than being target practice.

You say that is if they're happy we're there.. trust me they arent. If anything they cannot wait for us to leave.

[OneSlow5pt0]

You say that is if they're happy we're there.. trust me they arent. If anything they cannot wait for us to leave.

the everyday normal iraq person wants us there...not the terrorists

[Jaimecbr900]

But we still ended up with a dictator that killed thousands, so was it really the right choice?

Hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20. It's not fair to say that now. Then he was actually saving American lives by putting his own people to fight a fight we should have been fighting ourselves, again because politicians gave in to public opinion.



On the other hand recently Iran has stuck its hand out to the U.S and we slapped it, Iran aided the U.S after 9/11 in the search for Al Qaeda in Afghanistan. Iran wants to be a superpower like the U.S (which explains their interest in Nuclear Weapons) but contrary to what the media portrays they do not hate us. I know that hindsight is 20/20 but I don't think Saddam really needed billions of dollars in aid from us.

Why do you think they are wanting to be a "super power"? It is certainly no longer to defeat their nemesis Iraq. So why would they still want to be a "super power"???? Think about it.



Which is one of my issues, if the U.S is going to act unilaterally then why adhere to the Geneva Convention? Why care how prisoners are being treated? It goes back to domestic policy, nothing to do with Iraq. If you're going to do it half assed then why do it at all...

I totally agree in a sense. Being humanitarian and civilized should be rewarded and not condemned. True in war there really are no rules, but once someone is no longer a threat to you, why should you become a murderer and a torturer like the people you are fighting against. At some point someone has to step up and end it.


I can't say where I stand, democrats want to pull funding which is asinine. Conservatives want to "stay the course" but that is obviously getting us nowhere.. this next election is so serious that words cannot begin to express it, I just hope we elect the right one.

Totally agree as long as you don't vote for the Hilldabeast..... :D ;)

[Atlanta_521]

You say that is if they're happy we're there.. trust me they arent. If anything they cannot wait for us to leave.
How about we do just that. LEAVE. Iraq wasn't of concern to the American Public until the media blew it up. It sure as hell isn't going to be when we forget about it either. Take a look at Afghanistan, who the fuck remembers Afghanistan. I wouldn't be surprised if the average American citizen couldn't point out Iraq or Afghanistan without looking at the map for more than 3 minutes.

[1000cckiller]

weather we stay or leave they are still going to kill each other, and in the long run destroy their own country.

[OneSlow5pt0]

Iraq will crumble if we leave...we are the only thing keeping it afloat

[Atlanta_521]

Iraq will crumble if we leave...we are the only thing keeping it afloat
So we're going to have to babysit the country while getting shot at and watching the sunnis and shiites fight? The sooner we leave the less blame we'll get from the rest of the world when the entire country is in ruins.

[OneSlow5pt0]

So we're going to have to babysit the country while getting shot at and watching the sunnis and shiites fight? The sooner we leave the less blame we'll get from the rest of the world when the entire country is in ruins.

if we can fix this country,the american deaths will be worth it

[1000cckiller]

if we can fix this country,the american deaths will be worth it :umno: you dont believe that do you :cry:

[tony]

Unfortunately republicans do not have a candidate strong enough to beat the democrats so a pullout is inevitable. The only one I like out of all of them is Mitt Romney anyway..

I believed Obama could beat Hillary but its not going to happen, did anyone see the debate? She says WE now.. as in her and Bill like they split the presidency. "WE balanced the budget" I'm sitting there like what the hell?

Back on topic, pulling out of Iraq is a double edged sword and be careful what you ask for because the problem will manifest when we leave. What we need is support from other nations to keep the middle east in check.

[OneSlow5pt0]

Unfortunately republicans do not have a candidate strong enough to beat the democrats so a pullout is inevitable. The only one I like out of all of them is Mitt Romney anyway..

I believed Obama could beat Hillary but its not going to happen, did anyone see the debate? She says WE now.. as in her and Bill like they split the presidency. "WE balanced the budget" I'm sitting there like what the hell?

Back on topic, pulling out of Iraq is a double edged sword and be careful what you ask for because the problem will manifest when we leave. What we need is support from other nations to keep the middle east in check.

agreed, i dont see any republican id vote...but o,well im republican ill find some one,lol

[Jaimecbr900]

There's a reason why we're at where we are now.

Seriously, all bullshit aside.....you are a moron. Seriously. Never have I seen someone with as little knowledge think they know something.

Quit double talking. Many people have asked you, as I will again, to show your hand.....speak clearly as to WHY you say the bullshit that spews from your mouth.

WHERE exactly are "we" now, according to you? I'm willing to bet that you can't remotely and intelligently express a coherent paragraph about this. Wanna bet? That's probably because you have not a clue as to what you are regurgitating out of your young and immature mouth. You think that by repeating what someone else told you it makes YOU look smart. It doesn't, and your comments prove it.

Plato said it best:

Better to remain quiet and let them THINK you're a fool, than to open your mouth and prove it.



Terrorist aren't savages either,

Really? I know that lots of civilized nations behead people that don't agree with their cause. I know lots of civilized people that blow themselves up in the name of martyrdom. I know lots of civilized people that willingly give up their children TO be blown up in order to receive a ticket to heaven. I know lots of civilized people that set bodies on fire and drag them through the streets to show their courage and conviction.

You're so smart, the terrorists all around the world are just wanting to borrow our damn Gray Poupon!!!!!! Damn, why didn't we think of that earlier..... :rolleyes:



they KNOW they can't take down the U.S. from afar. What have they done? Brought us into their home field and are slowly but surely fucking up an entire generation of soldiers who could be doing something other than being target practice.

You are such a tard. Where exactly would you rather fight them, in your backyard? You're a tool. THEY certainly brought the fight to our front door on 9/11. Where do you propose we wait for them to strike next? I suppose you'd have us sit on our hands and wait until they did again, right? Maybe you'd suggest we wait until daddy U.N. gave us PERMISSION to defend ourselves too, huh?

You haven't got a clue as to what you are talking about.

[Atlanta_521]

if we can fix this country,the american deaths will be worth it
The price of those dead soldiers is uncomparable to what that country will ever become. They fought and died for freedom. Today more American soldiers will die and tommorow aswell. That country will never see freedom because of the fucking terrorists, and beleive me we're breeding more by just being there. Take a look at this. Tell me that kid won't grow up hating what America was doing over there. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9A_vxIOB-I

[Jaimecbr900]

Back on topic, pulling out of Iraq is a double edged sword and be careful what you ask for because the problem will manifest when we leave. What we need is support from other nations to keep the middle east in check.

Exactly.

The problem is we won't get it because the rest of the world is scared to act rather than react.

Is like that 800 lb Gorilla in the room. Everybody sees it, everybody is scared of it, but NOONE will step up and handle it so they think it will just go away on it's own if you ignore it long enough. That's the U.N.'s idealogy about it. "Just give them more time, they'll figure out we don't like that by the scowl on our faces"..... :rolleyes:

Again, if a law has no teeth and the police have no power, what is keeping everything in check? Nothing.

[OneSlow5pt0]

damn, that little kid need to come play for Georgia Tech,fucker's fast

[OneSlow5pt0]

Exactly.

The problem is we won't get it because the rest of the world is scared to act rather than react.

Is like that 800 lb Gorilla in the room. Everybody sees it, everybody is scared of it, but NOONE will step up and handle it so they think it will just go away on it's own if you ignore it long enough. That's the U.N.'s idealogy about it. "Just give them more time, they'll figure out we don't like that by the scowl on our faces"..... :rolleyes:

Again, if a law has no teeth and the police have no power, what is keeping everything in check? Nothing.

agreed..UN is all talk,they always have been and always will be...im glad to live in a country thats not scared to step up,when they see something thats not right

[1000cckiller]

damn, that little kid need to come play for Georgia Tech,fucker's fast :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: he looks like some :diespam: that just runs across the screen.

[Jaimecbr900]

The price of those dead soldiers is uncomparable to what that country will ever become. They fought and died for freedom. Today more American soldiers will die and tommorow aswell. That country will never see freedom because of the fucking terrorists, and beleive me we're breeding more by just being there. Take a look at this. Tell me that kid won't grow up hating what America was doing over there. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9A_vxIOB-I

I won't even look at that video, but I bet I can tell you what it is.

One question though, why won't you answer the questions that are asked of you instead of continuing to have diarrhea of the mouth? You can't, right? Then really you should just :stfu: .

[Atlanta_521]

I won't even look at that video, but I bet I can tell you what it is.

One question though, why won't you answer the questions that are asked of you instead of continuing to have diarrhea of the mouth? You can't, right? Then really you should just :stfu: .
We're in deep shit. That's my answer, think what you will of me because I could care less. Atleast I'm partaking in a conversation about something most teens would fall asleep to.

[Jaimecbr900]

We're in deep shit. That's my answer, think what you will of me because I could care less. Atleast I'm partaking in a conversation about something most teens would fall asleep to.

No you're not. You're a joke. Just like most teens, you're just spouting off at the mouth to hear yourself talk. A debate is not regurgitating what your parents or teachers tell you and then not being able to defend it past, "I'm rubber, you're glue...what you say bounces off me and sticks to you..." :rolleyes:

You have shown zero intelligence and if you're representative of our "teens" in action.....we're a hellva lot more doomed than Iraq ever was. :rolleyes:

[OneSlow5pt0]

No you're not. You're a joke. Just like most teens, you're just spouting off at the mouth to hear yourself talk. A debate is not regurgitating what your parents or teachers tell you and then not being able to defend it past, "I'm rubber, you're glue...what you say bounces off me and sticks to you..." :rolleyes:

You have shown zero intelligence and if you're representative of our "teens" in action.....we're a hellva lot more doomed than Iraq ever was. :rolleyes:

lol,im a teen

[Jaimecbr900]

lol,im a teen

That's why I said "if", because I'm holding out hope that not all young people are as lost as he is..... ;) :D

[OneSlow5pt0]

lol,well u better hope,cause theirs alot of dumbasses out there

[1000cckiller]

lol,well u better hope,cause theirs alot of dumbasses out thereyou aint never lying.

[thepolecat]

Bush is perhaps the worst president in the history of the US. But I will say one thing- I am damn thankful I am in a country that I have the freedom to say that

[Mike Lowrey]

Unfortunately republicans do not have a candidate strong enough to beat the democrats so a pullout is inevitable. The only one I like out of all of them is Mitt Romney anyway..

I believed Obama could beat Hillary but its not going to happen, did anyone see the debate? She says WE now.. as in her and Bill like they split the presidency. "WE balanced the budget" I'm sitting there like what the hell?


She will fuck up this country if given the chance.


Back on topic, pulling out of Iraq is a double edged sword and be careful what you ask for because the problem will manifest when we leave. What we need is support from other nations to keep the middle east in check.

Exactly. Some think that once you remove Saddam from power, that the job is done. You can't just leave, or the country will fall into the wrong hands. The leaders must keep the country on its feet and the UN must help keep things calm. That is not the US's job alone.

[OneSlow5pt0]

She will fuck up this country if given the chance.



Exactly. Some think that once you remove Saddam from power, that the job is done. You can't just leave, or the country will fall into the wrong hands. The leaders must keep the country on its feet and the UN must help keep things calm. That is not the US's job alone.

exactly, we have to help set up the country so their will never be another dictator in Iraq

[ep9716]

Well Sadam Is Dead Now...So That Would Make Bush It.....

[BABY J]

Funny how most of the people in this thread do not know enough of US or world history to understand what they THINK they are debating.

[Jaimecbr900]

Funny how most of the people in this thread do not know enough of US or world history to understand what they THINK they are debating.

+1000 if I could. :goodjob:

[collins]

We are not the world police,we have our own problems that need to be handled here. "AMEEEEERICAAAA!! FUCK YEAH! WE'ER OFF TO SAVE THE MUTHA FUCKIN DAY YEAH!!!"

-team america


reps to SOME ppl...

[Jaimecbr900]

Funny, but reading thru some of the news yesterday.....I found THIS.....some of you guys are so sadly misinformed it's unbelievable. I want to know what some of you who have to say now.... :rolleyes:

__________________________________________________ ___________


U.N. Supports U.S Troops Staying in Iraq
Published: 6/14/07, 3:25 AM EDT
By EDITH M. LEDERER
UNITED NATIONS (AP) - The U.N. Security Council agreed Wednesday to an Iraqi request to extend the mandate of the U.S.-led multinational force after the country's foreign minister said the troops were "vitally necessary."

The council also strongly condemned the bombing of Samarra's revered Shiite shrine and urged all countries, especially those in the region, to support Iraq in its pursuit of peace.

Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari told the council members that despite the senseless violence "the government has made tremendous strides toward the day when security will be provided by a self-sufficient, Iraqi national security force."

"While Iraqis will always be grateful for their liberation from an absolute despot, no Iraqi government official - indeed, no Iraqi citizen - wants the presence of foreign troops on Iraqi soil one day longer than is vitally necessary," he said.

"But today, and for the foreseeable months at least, the presence of (multinational) troops is vitally necessary not only for Iraq but also to safeguard regional security and stability," Zebari said.

Last year the Security Council extended the force's mandate for a year starting Dec. 31, but authorized a review of the mandate by June 15.

Russia supported the extension of the multinational force's mandate but said the council must "signify the deadlines" of the foreign military presence in Iraq, which its ambassador, Vitaly Churkin, called a "serious irritant for many Iraqis."

U.S. Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad said Iraqi security forces are undertaking a greater role, assuming main responsibility for security in seven provinces and taking the lead in operations to combat insurgents and militias.

But, he said, Iraq's success in promoting stability and consolidating its "young democracy" will depend not only on progress in the security sector but on advances in the economic field "and most importantly movement in the political arena."

Khalilzad said Iraqi security forces are critical to the push to pacify Baghdad. Since the U.S.-Iraqi operation began in February, Khalilzad said attacks against civilians and sectarian murders in the city have decreased while attacks against coalition forces and high-profile terrorist attacks are still frequent.

Taking a bleaker view of the Baghdad operation, Ashraf Qazi, the top U.N. envoy in Iraq, said that "progress has been slower and more uncertain than had been hoped for ..."

"Iraq is today faced with an exceptionally complex series of overlapping sectarian, political and ethnic conflicts that are beyond the capacity of any one actor or policy to resolve," he said. "This situation has contributed to a deepening sense of insecurity and pessimism among many Iraqis."

Both Qazi and Khalilzad said progress on national reconciliation is essential. While acknowledging that constructive discussions would be "very difficult" in the current environment, Qazi suggested the United Nations should play a bigger role in this area.

The United Nations has the "potential" to assist and develop national dialogue, regional cooperation on Iraq, and international support, Qazi said.

Russia's Churkin said that without international assistance for the political process, leaders of Iraq's different groups would not be able to overcome "the inertia" of mistrust.

__________________________________________________ ____________


Now even the U.N., the world's biggest sissies, are saying that we shouldn't just "pull out". What are the Democrat sissies gonna hold on to now??? :rolleyes:

[Craigers2k]

you were like 10 when the war started...your opinion doesnt count

:bowdown::lmfao::lmfao:

[Craigers2k]

Just a second now... Exactly what are you advocating here?
Have you ever wondered "what if" we talked and reasoned with these terrorist and fond out what the fuck they want. I'm pretty sure with the whole world watching they wouldn't say "we want America to die, dissapear, etc.. but then again who negotiates with terrorists? That's where we fuck up, what the hell do they want? Do they really just want to blow the U.S. to bits and peices? I don't think they'd say the same shit if we were to negotiate with them.

:lmfao:And to think, you will soon be old enough to vote.:(

[{X}Echo419]

somebody ban the person that started this poll. :2cents:

[cactusEG]

that nigga bush

[Fr33way]

Funny how most of the people in this thread do not know enough of US or world history to understand what they THINK they are debating.

Fucking ding!

[unkn0wndj]

Bush is perhaps the worst president in the history of the US. But I will say one thing- I am damn thankful I am in a country that I have the freedom to say that Are you serious? I guess Clinton was an amazing president...:no:

[BABY J]

You do not know the report card of a president while he is still in office. But history will show that Bush's choices generated a lot of worlwide instability.

[ShooterMcGavin]

somebody ban the person that started this poll. :2cents:
lol, u do realize u actually know the person that started this poll right? :D

[ranj]

ur an idiot for making this stupid pointless thread.

[BABY J]

Not a stupid thread at all - just stupid people posting in it who have no clue what they are talking about.

[OneSlow5pt0]

Not a stupid thread at all - just stupid people posting in it who have no clue what they are talking about.

me?:(

[ranj]

Not a stupid thread at all - just stupid people posting in it who have no clue what they are talking about.

i disagree, this is a pretty dumb thread!

[Danny]

wow. ya'll cant be serious?!?! Bush vs Saddam? I didnt read the whole thread, but from the looks from the first page there are actually animals on this site able to post moronic thoughts like: Bush is worse than Saddam, wow. The stupidity of some humans never ceases to amaze me.

[ranj]

wow. ya'll cant be serious?!?! Bush vs Saddam? I didnt read the whole thread, but from the looks from the first page there are actually animals on this site able to post moronic thoughts like: Bush is worse than Saddam, wow. The stupidity of some humans never ceases to amaze me.


+1 !!!

[BABY J]

The morons are the one's that do not understand how there IS a comparison. good to see that "The Machine" works as advertised.

[ash7]

But in my eyes Bush is a villain too. Bush to me lead us to a war for reasons people still dont know, and has pretty much turn his party against him. Sadam was a villain to his own people which to me that is his own countries fault, for allowing him to abuse them. Our country can't be the police for everyone's problems. I would like to hear others imput.

We're fighting in Iraq to create a state that's friendly to the US so we have a military infrastructure already in place to launch attacks (and defend againt) Iran.

The terrorists are just a side problem we're dealing with in the meantime.

Iran is an extremly dangerous country to the stability of the Middle East region. They're sending countless weapons (and personel) to:

-Hamas- who is directly confronting Israel (our very close ally) with daily missle attacks. And who also overthrew the Palestinian government last week. Iran recently gained nuclear status, and has said many times that they are going to blow Israel off the map.

-The Taliban in Afghanistan and Iraq- we caught Iran red handed two weeks ago in a very large shipment of arms to these guys. They're also sending their best special forces and commanders into Iraq to fight against the US disguised as terrorists.

-And let's not even get into their ties with Russia and China.

I'm no Bush supporter (he's fuckin up bad on securing our countries borders)
BUT, there are bigger things going on here than some stupid war in Iraq. If Israel is destroyed, we will be sucked into a global conflict larger than any in the past.

:2cents:
-jonathan

[Danny]

The morons are the one's that do not understand how there IS a comparison. good to see that "The Machine" works as advertised.


Of course there is a comparison. You can compare anything and everything, now the amount of similarities you will find is whole different subject.

But please do share the similarities. But for you to suggest Bush and Saddam are on the same level is foolish; and the fact you are still breathing after saying so proves me correct.

[Danny]

We're fighting in Iraq to create a state that's friendly to the US so we have a military infrastructure already in place to launch attacks (and defend againt) Iran.

The terrorists are just a side problem we're dealing with in the meantime.

Iran is an extremly dangerous country to the stability of the Middle East region. They're sending countless weapons (and personel) to:

-Hamas- who is directly confronting Israel (our very close ally) with daily missle attacks. And who also overthrew the Palestinian government last week. Iran recently gained nuclear status, and has said many times that they are going to blow Israel off the map.

-The Taliban in Afghanistan and Iraq- we caught Iran red handed two weeks ago in a very large shipment of arms to these guys. They're also sending their best special forces and commanders into Iraq to fight against the US disguised as terrorists.

-And let's not even get into their ties with Russia and China.

I'm no Bush supporter (he's fuckin up bad on securing our countries borders)
BUT, there are bigger things going on here than some stupid war in Iraq. If Israel is destroyed, we will be sucked into a global conflict larger than any in the past.

:2cents:
-jonathan

Nice details. Do you have any links to these specific topics? I would like to read into them. The border issue is driving me insane, mainly the US/Mexico border since thats what is in the spot light right now. Im sick of the illegals destroying this country. (back on topic now)

[efman]

This is my last question for a minute. I want to know who ya'll think the biggest villain is, is it Bush or Sadam. After watching the special on National Geographic last night, I saw how much of a villain sadam was. But in my eyes Bush is a villain too. Bush to me lead us to a war for reasons people still dont know, and has pretty much turn his party against him. Sadam was a villain to his own people which to me that is his own countries fault, for allowing him to abuse them. Our country can't be the police for everyone's problems. I would like to hear others imput.

all yalll need to learn some fucking respect, you may not like bush, hell i dont like bush but you need to give him some respect, sadam killed his own people in cold blood has bush done any shit like that, sadam launched scud missles at israel, has bush done that ? sadam was evil and we went to war because he needed to be gotten rid of. it should of happen in the clinton years, but the clintons and janet reno where to busy being pussies and fucking up america, you may not like him but you need to respect him and his position and in my opinion stand behind him because he represents all of us.


sorry for my spelling errors :gay:

[efman]

i only read the fisrt page and the last page of this thread but major reps to danny and db1_77!!!! +1 yall

[BABY J]

Of course there is a comparison. You can compare anything and everything, now the amount of similarities you will find is whole different subject.



But please do share the similarities. But for you to suggest Bush and Saddam are on the same level is foolish; and the fact you are still breathing after saying so proves me correct.



The fact that I am still breathing?? LOL. Maybe the fact that I am still breathing has a little bit to do with...



http://www.seriouscustoms.com/babyj/BAGHDAD



or maybe...



http://www.seriouscustoms.com/babyj/FLIGHTSUIT



I'm sure it has nothing to do w/ the wings I earned in this photo:



http://www.seriouscustoms.com/babyj/KEESLER%20AFB



What have YOU done that makes you SOO fuckin qualified? I try to stay outta threads like this b/c most people have NO CLUE what the hell they are talking about. People like you use CNN as an information source - like I said, I see that "The Machine" works as advertised. I never said that they are on the same level, but they are DEFINITELY comparable - if you don't have the ability for abstract thought then you have no place in this thread. There IS a comparison.


all yalll need to learn some fucking respect, you may not like bush, hell i dont like bush but you need to give him some respect, sadam killed his own people in cold blood has bush done any shit like that, sadam launched scud missles at israel, has bush done that ? sadam was evil and we went to war because he needed to be gotten rid of. it should of happen in the clinton years, but the clintons and janet reno where to busy being pussies and fucking up america, you may not like him but you need to respect him and his position and in my opinion stand behind him because he represents all of us.

sorry for my spelling errors

Respect is EARNED, not learned. As with all other President's the "report card" for Bush will not be realized until h is well out of office. The years you are referring to is a DIRECT reflection of the US funding and arming SH for more than 30 years. That pit bull you keep on the short leash in your back yard just MIGHT bite your hand off in the future huh? LOL @ the "we went to war b/c he needed to be gotten rid of" comment. SH was predictable, and that's one reason why the "smart" presidents before SH tried to get rid of him politically instead of w/ american blood being shedded. I stand behind he TROOPS - I put my time in, butI will NEVER stand behind an idiot - and that's just what JB is. His own party is turning on him and rightfully so - he is running out of favors on the hill and every1 is realizing that - the stall on the immigration vote yesterday is proof.

[BABY J]

Here is my resume - but what do I know??:thinking:



JASON D. JOHNSON
__________________________________________________ ____________________________________
email: [email protected] address: Fishers, IN 46038


OBJECTIVE: Secure employment as a I.T Systems Engineer/Administrator specializing in I.T support/solutions (to include Solaris, AIX, HP-UX, NT) for your company.

QUALIFICATIONS

Dynamic, skilled IT specialist with proven experience managing, administering, building, and troubleshooting IT projects and C2/C4I systems for the US Air Force and the Department of Defense. I have technical expertise as a UNIX engineer, as well as other platforms. I can provide world-class computer systems engineering/support in any environment. Fast burner. I have the drive to learn any new hardware or software applications and master them in short time.

* U.S Dept of Defense TOP SECRET Security Clearance *

PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCE

UNIX Systems Engineer IV/ Site 6 August 2005 – May 2007

UNIX Systems Engineer/Analyst supporting Infrastructure testing for the DoD Echelon System. Responsible for environment configuration, and application support. 3rd party applications include Tuxedo, Weblogic, TBMCS. Also responsible for internal applications as well. Senior UNIX Engineer on the application support team. Responsible for supporting and maintaining infrastructure used in integrating systems from the infra test environment to the production environments.

Sr. UNIX Systems Engineer III /Administrator, Cheyenne Mountain / NORAD(Col. Springs) June 2004 – June 2005

(SAIC NORTHCOM project) Senior GCCS (UNIX) Systems Engineer in support of the Department of Homeland Defense, NORAD, AFSPC, and NORTHCOM. Responsible for engineering and administration of multiple Top Secret DoD secure networks. Responsible for UNIX OS installation (Solaris, HP-UX, AIX), configuration, customization and support. Additional duties are: 3rd party product support, file system creation, disaster recovery, UNIX scripting, security implementation, patch application, startup/shutdown scripting, configuration management, problem diagnosis and resolution, documentation, and performance and capacity planning (load-balancing).

UNIX Systems engineer/administrator for numerous DoD information systems, primarily classified systems, in support of US Northern Command (NORTHCOM), North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD), and US Air Force Space Command. Provided general supervision, management, and overall coordination of systems administration and helpdesk support for the systems maintained. Installs and maintains Sun Sparc client/servers and Windows NT client/servers in a UNIX data-center environment, including COP and Track management. Performs configuration and maintenance under Solaris OS (ver. 2.x – 9.x); TCP/IP; Network File System (NFS); NCSA Webserver; DNS; Sendmail; Network Information System + (NIS+); User Account Admin; Printer Admin; Software for Solaris, including Netscape, and Query Tools for Oracle and Topic Databases. Programs Common Gateway Interface (CGI), search and password protected pages in PERL and Bourne Shell. Comfortable with shift work and 24/7 on-call support.

Extensive experience with UNIX systems administration, to include installation, monitoring, JOPES, GSORTS, COP and configuration management. UNIX system administration in large networked environment; with Solaris OS and Windows NT/2000; extensive knowledge of NIS+, NFS, Automount, DNS, Sendmail, Veritas Volume Manager and Sun hardware. Scripting experience (e.g. Perl, Tcl, shells). Advanced knowledge of networking and routing protocols. Excellent technical communication skills, both written and verbal to include Microsoft office skillsets. Coordinate with local and outside agencies to establish and maintain 100% uninterrupted terminal connectivity for DoD unclassified links and classified links up to and including Top Secret SCI data links. This includes support for mission-critical applications in a 24/7 operating environment. This includes load balancing for high-demand servers/applications.

GCCS/TBMCS Systems Administrator, US Air Force June 1997 – June 2004

Performed GCCS/TBMCS Systems Administration and programming duties; to include configuring hardware and software, disaster recovery, on C2 computer systems and networks. 4 years experience with Sun Solaris Volume Manager, Veritas Volume manager. Experience maintaining VCS (Veritas Cluster Server) in a high demand 24/7 environment. Responsible for RAID configuration for entire UNIX server farm, over 2 terabytes of data.

In depth knowledge of UNIX operating systems and hardware. Responsible for drafting hardware/software configurations for UNIX/NT networks for use in USAF Air Operations Centers worldwide.

AIX Support: I have over 8 years of AIX support experience. Most recent AIX experience is January 2005. This includes Open BSD and System V administration. I also have experience using AIX Load Sum to load AIX OS onto both server and client machines.

UNIX Support: I have extensive UNIX experience (8 years+) in 24/7 operating NOCs. I am very comfortable from command line and I also am comfortable working within UNIX/NT environments. From system monitoring (logs) to unlocking/creating user accounts. I am also very familiar with configuring and performance tuning of Sun/HP-UX/AIX, IBM mid range and high-end servers. I have 4+ years of shell scripting experience in a UNIX environment. Developed scripts using a combination of PERL and OpenSSH public keys to remotely administer/automate servers, both local and remote. Experienced in installation/configuration of SANs (fiber/SCSI) for high-speed data transfer between storage devices.

UNIX SECURITY: I have 7+ years locking down UNIX machines and applications. I have worked on some of the most secure networks on Earth up to and including Top Secret SCI networks for the DoD. I am skilled at removing or reconfiguring known UNIX shortfalls, as well as writing scripts or setting cron jobs to regularly detect and immediately report security breaches.

NETWORKING: I have extensive knowledge constructing/maintaining Solaris and NT based networks, to include SMTP, BIND, TCP/IP, DNS, NIS, NIS+, etc. I have experience creating/de-conflicting IP schemes, subnetting, scripting, and network de-confliction as well as engineering new networks from the ground up.

EDUCATION/TRAINING

* August 2003 - Advanced GCCS Solaris 8, 9 Course
* January 2003 - GCCS Oracle
* March 2002 - Advanced UNIX Computer Systems Administrator Course
* December 2001 - GCCS Basic UNIX Computer Systems Administrator Course
* March 2001 - JASAC (Joint Aerospace Systems Administration Course)
* November 2000 - USAF Communications Computer Systems Course

RELATED EXPERIENCE

SYSTEMS: Advanced UNIX, GCCS, TBMCS, Solaris 2.x – 10.x, DII COE, Sidewinder, TCPIP, MS Windows NT/2000/XP, MS Exchange, MS Office Suite, Oracle DB, SENDMAIL

HARDWARE: Sun UltraSparc II, ECCS/Storage Engine based Sun systems, HP 9000 Superdome, Ultra 80s, Intel-Based PC’s, HP-UX, IBM, Dell PowerEdge Servers, Sun Enterprise 420R, all Sun mid-range and high-end systems. EMC storage, SANS, Clarion CX500.

[efman]

your career and "top secret" clearance has nothing to do with this, and when was it 96 when iraqi's where ready to roll in and take out saddam with back up of the cia but instead the clinton admin. pulled them out put them on trial and the iraqi force opposing saddam where destroyed, hmmm so ya i'mm pretty sure they fucked up on that one....
whatever maybe i'm just a stupid immature kid who does'nt understand the world and cant spell worth a shit during the summer

[Danny]

OK, i think i see where your coming from allthought its stil a little hazy. I think we blew each others opinions a little out.

I entirly agree that the machine blinds us, to what degree i dont know. I wish i did know. Thats what im trying to get you to tell me.

I would agree you could compare SH and JB.. but to what level, im unsure. This again i would like DETAILS on.

And please spare us the photos and your resume Jack Bauer, toss some facts out there that really shows JB to even be remotley close to having the same ideals as SH.

Last time i checked we didnt have to qualify for an opinion, so please dont feel the need to spill your millitary history just to make a point. I would rather read two pages of your direct comparision of JB and SH than read your 2 page resume (which i didnt read btw). So please, i can honestly can say i would like to see your direct comparision, in all seriousness I really would.

[ash7]

Here is my resume - but what do I know??:thinking:



JASON D. JOHNSON


just because you have a TOP SECRET clearance and worked (in a small way) with the Echelon program doesn't mean you know anything about this countries foreign policy and how the president runs his administration... i love how you deemed it necessary to post your resume' on here just to give yourself some "street credit." nice touch lol

shoot, I served my time in the 27th AMU at Langley AFB as a Dedicated Crew Chief on a F15C (83-3019) (AFSC 2A373A) and a F/A22 (03-0006) (AFSC 2A353N). I also have a TOP SECRET clearance (woooo), but your level of education/security clearance does not make one's opinion (which is what we're reffering to here) more qualified than anothers.

btw, here are the links you wanted Danny

-Iran sending arms and troops to terrorists and the taliban
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/02/AR2007060201020.html

-latest intelliegence briefing transcript with Dana Priest.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2007/06/01/DI2007060102307.htm

*i see that danny and efman already made these points, lol. Nice work guys.

[BB6dohcvtec]

ok lets sum this up and end it. saddam easily wins no question ask but he is dead so we will go with bush ftw at the moment i can go on for days about how much he sucks and how stupid he is and how his own party doesn't even support him but he is one of the worst presidents in recent history and to the person who said clinton was an amazing president trying to be sarcastic you are actually right he was a amazing president compared to bush. when bush leaves office compare the two and see who comes out on top :goodjob: . bush= a lame duck

[BABY J]

Less to do w/ security clearance - more to do w/ the briefings I have sat in on regarding this VERY subject. And I wish I could say more as well. I try to stay outta threads like this, bc it ALWAYS gets to a point where I hit a wall and can't say more. Danny - when you say you (people in general) are blinded, that is JUST the beginning man. I will say this and I am done - a video conference call between Bush and Saddam w/ American operatives operating the MTU on the distant ends was a "somewhat" regular occurance.

[airbornestud]

I've spent a year in Iraq seeing 1st hand what Sadam did. I could care less what anyone says; he was a tyrant and needed to be silenced. Until you’ve seen the orphans and the widows of what he did, you can’t understand how evil he was.