proper rebuilding techniques

[TheChosenOne]

Now that I know the direction I'm going in with my rebuild, I have a few specific questions:

1)How precise of a science is it to install bearings, and piston rings?

2) If my motor has about 84000 miles on it, when I put it back together, can I use the same crank?

3) How much would it cost me to have a reputable shop put my bottom end together?

[redrumracer]

1) its not really a "science" just make sure you have the proper clearances between the bearings and crankshaft. and make sure you also have the correct gap on the rings.
2)depends on what your doing. a) stock rebuild- measure the crank with a micrometer and make sure its within the stock tolerances. b) performance rebuild- id go with a new one just for a piece of mind and reliability.
3) varies from shop to shop. wouldnt know cause i do my own work.
If you pay attention to detail you should be able to build it your self.

[BABY J]

* If the crank comes out - I'd have it micro-polished and turned. Remember to hang it (literally) when you are storing it outside of the block.

* clearances are EVERYTHING - my philosophy is "If you do not have the money to do it right, then how are you gonna have the money to do it twice?" In other - words - "do it once, do it right". While you do not have to always go to a shop to get a block put together right, just make sure that you get some1 who has a clue.

* bottom-end assembly is not that expensive unless you actually are there to see what you just paid for - lol. After watching it done a few times, I decided to purchase a few specialty tools so I can learn on my own.

* also, I'd let the machine shop file the rings down. They have a kool little tool that does it automatically and it does not make mistakes.

[TheChosenOne]

* If the crank comes out - I'd have it micro-polished and turned. Remember to hang it (literally) when you are storing it outside of the block.

* clearances are EVERYTHING - my philosophy is "If you do not have the money to do it right, then how are you gonna have the money to do it twice?" In other - words - "do it once, do it right". While you do not have to always go to a shop to get a block put together right, just make sure that you get some1 who has a clue.

* bottom-end assembly is not that expensive unless you actually are there to see what you just paid for - lol. After watching it done a few times, I decided to purchase a few specialty tools so I can learn on my own.

* also, I'd let the machine shop file the rings down. They have a kool little tool that does it automatically and it does not make mistakes.
So you know how to do it... how much would you charge me if I brought you everything??? I am having the block bored and honed, but besides that, everything will be oem.
Quite frankly I am in over my head when it comes to assembley with the bottom end, and I need it done right.

[BABY J]

I live in Indianapolis bro. PM SPOOLIN on here.

[TheChosenOne]

Indianapolis!!! Hot damn... thanks for the help.

[BABY J]

SPOOLIN can either do it, or suggest some local guys.

[SLow_POke]

*

* clearances are EVERYTHING - my philosophy is "If you do not have the money to do it right, then how are you gonna have the money to do it twice?" In other - words - "do it once, do it right". While you do not have to always go to a shop to get a block put together right, just make sure that you get some1 who has a clue.



.:goodjob: :goodjob:

[Benefit]

jordon just get yourself some plastigage and check the FSM for what the tolerance should be...it should be something like .002 - .003...if it says that then get the plastigage that reads between those, so for .002 and .003 it would be plastigage green...

you lay down a strip of the plastigage on top of the bearing and lay the crank down and make sure you dont spin it...and then you basically assemble the bottom end and take it all back apart and measure the plastigage with the paper it gives you if its good then just wipe off the plastigage and assemble it...

not really that hard...

[BABY J]

I do not suggest this. If this is your ONLY car, AND your racecar then get a professional or some1 experienced to build it. Then later on, buy a busted B16 and engine stand and put it together and take it apart a coupla times a month. The only motor you should build yourself should be a backup motor - and make sure some1 experienced can help you.

[Benefit]

how would you know you put the backup motor together good? i know you have to crawl before you walk but i mean you got to start somewhere...just completed my first build and its just a fuse thing right now till i start her up

[BABY J]

Read my post - I said do what I did. Get a busted motor - and put to together and take it apart a coupla times a month. I STILL get big builds done by the pros - but I won't be "carless" b/c I don't have money to give a shop b/c I can put a basic b and d series together. I also like "liability". I can afford to blow shit up bc I have more than 1 car - but some people do not. In that case, save, get it done once and get it done right. That is just my opinion. for example, ask him if he knows what plasti-gauge is and I bet he will say no - lol.

[TheChosenOne]

....so...:cry:

I can pat my head and rub my stomach at the same time, though! :D

I am with you on that get it done right, the first time plan. Shit i'll be the first to admit when I don't know something. I know the general information and specs about motors, but plasti-gauge... I'm pulling up blanks.

[Curmudgeon]

I agree with do it right/do it once. BUT.... you CAN do it right even if you are a first timer. Understand that yes.... it will take a little more time vs. having(paying)someone else to do it, and you will spend that same amount of money in good tools..... but, you will know your motor like the back of your hand(which will afford you the knowledge/ability to troubleshoot any possible future issues), and you'll have the pride that comes with doing it yourself.

Btw.... most will do a (quality)build for around $800.00. At least that's what a pro. performance V8 build goes for.

Biggest thing(to me)is educate yourself on what it is you're doing before you ever pick up a wrench.

Buy any pertinent literature relative to your motor/build.

Read. Read. Read. Read some more. Then.... read again.

Know what tools you'll need to do the disassembly/build start to finish. Then buy them.

Remove/disassemble the engine(on a stand). Follow your instruction sequence.

Sends the head(s) off to the machine shop for a re-fresh(valve job/guides, and a slight mill(.005 if the deck surface is already relatively true).

Same for the empty block. Best case scenario it will just need hot tanked/cylinder hone.

Worst case is it will need to be bored oversize/honed/decked. Not a big deal.

They will measure/record everything you'll need to know(value wise.... bore dia./taper/out of round/deck height etc.).

You can have them size/install the piston rings for you(that's the trickiest part for a beginner IMHO.)

Understand the build sequence.

Do a mock up. Be sure EVERYTHING is absolutely CLEAN.

Disassemble and do ANOTHER mock up. Be sure EVERYTHING is absolutely CLEAN.

Pay attention to(and record)your clearances/tolerances, and crank/cam(s)end play during the mock ups.

Assemble your engine. Be sure EVERYTHING is absolutely CLEAN. It's really not that hard.

I've been building my own motors since I was 16 years old(I'm an old phuck now), and NEVER had a build related failure.

I just recently paid a local race shop(for the first time in my life)to build/install my stroker motor. Just didn't have the time or ass to do it. It was convienient, but I feel like I cheated. I don't have the same(kind of) pride in this motor as in motors past.

Anyway..... sorry for the long read.

[EmminoDaGreat]

We can assemble it for you. Pm me for pricing.

[Benefit]

definetly understand the build sequence....i just put on my upper oil pan first and didnt put on my oil pump...ghey...

[Z32redondo]

Im in the same boat but feel that if I tried to rebuild it I could only because I have been playing with go-kart engines since the 5th grade so I think I could get it done...or close enough to where somebody could fix my fuck up relatively easily. lol

[SPOOLIN]

just remember, OEM crank>All other cranks, in a honda.

[GSRteg®]

:goodjob: ....

[highspeed]

remember to get that head you bought from me checked out. I had no probs with it and it came off of a great running motor but even when I got it I took it to be resurfaced. Everyone on here has something good to say so listen. Assembling a motor is not hard but time consuming. Finding someone to show you how it is done properly will not be a problem on here but you'll have to choose who you want to do it. Anyways good luck on the build and if you need anymore parts just call me.

[TheChosenOne]

I have done everything right, so far. The problem I'm running into is my builder says that the piston rings that came with the pistons aren't the right ones...:thinking:. I the blocked was honed, so I bought standard size pistons (81.00mm) and rings. He says that they are pre-gapped, and that I needed piston rings that weren't pre-gapped. he said he can use them, but my compression will be lower than if he had non-pre-gapped piston rings???

I guess the block was honed before, and now, we honed it again, so it's closer to 0.010 over. So, will standard pistons work with the standard rings, or am I in trouble???

[Vteckidd]

compression is only affected by the dome on the piston, rod length(doesnt matter since your stock), deck height and surfacing of the head (milling/surfacing)

hand honing is a big NO NO. if your just trying to clean a cylinder wall thats one thing, but honing should be done by a MACHINE SHOP.

If your block still had FACTORY cross hatches, NO HONE IS NECCESARY. you prob made the cylinder out of round now or egg shaped if he hand honed it. ask how long he did it for, if it was any more than 15 sec per cylinder, mark my words, your motor WILL SMOKE.

I think i spoke to you on the phone today. Best thing to do IMO to make sure its RIGHT is bite the bullet an go with OVERBORE PISTONS to ensure ring seal and proper clearances.

I would sell or exchange the standard pistons for 81.25 or 81.50mm slugs. GET OEM RINGS, throw the nippon rings away.

machine shops only charge $100-150 to bore an hone. its worth the investment because once it goes together, there is no turning back.

save yourself time an money NOW.

trust me i know, ive built my fair share of motors, and i know what works an what doesnt work.

[AnthonyF]

* If the crank comes out - I'd have it micro-polished and turned. Remember to hang it (literally) when you are storing it outside of the block.

* clearances are EVERYTHING - my philosophy is "If you do not have the money to do it right, then how are you gonna have the money to do it twice?" In other - words - "do it once, do it right". While you do not have to always go to a shop to get a block put together right, just make sure that you get some1 who has a clue.

* bottom-end assembly is not that expensive unless you actually are there to see what you just paid for - lol. After watching it done a few times, I decided to purchase a few specialty tools so I can learn on my own.

* also, I'd let the machine shop file the rings down. They have a kool little tool that does it automatically and it does not make mistakes.



good quote... :goodjob:

[Vuongy_Dong]

Well said Mike. And for thechosenone, proper rebuilding is boring it out to .010 from the beginning, now you have to go a lil higher to make sure the cylinders are perfectly round.

[TheChosenOne]

yea, I did talk to yo taday Mike, and I think I am going to have to just bite the bullet like you said. What i'll have to do is get a machine shop to measure it, bore and hones it AGAIN, and then measure again, as well. Then i'll get the larger pistons and oem rings. :(

I've come this far, I would hate to have done all this work, just to have the motor smoke.

Does anyone know of a good shop close to gwinnett. I know I initially went to lawrenceville auto parts, but they had a 4 week waiting list.

[AnthonyF]

^^^ yup. I did too. I got my mustang motor bored out with Wiseco forged pistons. It may cost more, but when your out cruising and you punch it (if it's built and tuned right) you feel safe and realize...i got dependable shit under there...ahhh...and a big smile comes over you...i promise that will happen.

[Vuongy_Dong]

ball and engine in lilburn.

[BABY J]

If the shop will overbore/hone w/out the slugs then I'd question them. Some shops do it - but most shops will want the pistons to be sent w/ the block just to be sure. Good luck man. STAY ON THE PHONE W/ MAINSTREAM OR BG - and take your time. The race is AFTER you get the build, not before. ;)

Also - depending if you are gonna boost it or not, be very careful as you machine and re-machine a stock bore block. For boost your final bore may be over what's "safe". 1st get the bore checked to see where you are on teh worst sleeve (if they are hand bored, trust me they are not all equal). Find the biggest overbored sleeve - get that number - then make sure there is enough material there to overbore for consistency throughout the remaining sleeve. Work from the BIGGEST bore backwards to get a worst case scenario - and figure out your target overbore. This is just the measuring phase - MAKE NO CUTS> With that knowledge in hand, then make sure that your piston manufacturer has an off the shelf piston to support what overbore you will end up with. Then supply the slugs w/ the block when you get it machined. They will likely mark which slug was machined for which cylinder w/ a sharpie. Then drink beer.

[TheChosenOne]

If the shop will overbore/hone w/out the slugs then I'd question them. Some shops do it - but most shops will want the pistons to be sent w/ the block just to be sure. Good luck man. STAY ON THE PHONE W/ MAINSTREAM OR BG - and take your time. The race is AFTER you get the build, not before. ;)

Also - depending if you are gonna boost it or not, be very careful as you machine and re-machine a stock bore block. For boost your final bore may be over what's "safe". 1st get the bore checked to see where you are on teh worst sleeve (if they are hand bored, trust me they are not all equal). Find the biggest overbored sleeve - get that number - then make sure there is enough material there to overbore for consistency throughout the remaining sleeve. Work from the BIGGEST bore backwards to get a worst case scenario - and figure out your target overbore. This is just the measuring phase - MAKE NO CUTS> With that knowledge in hand, then make sure that your piston manufacturer has an off the shelf piston to support what overbore you will end up with. Then supply the slugs w/ the block when you get it machined. They will likely mark which slug was machined for which cylinder w/ a sharpie. Then drink beer.
Thanks guys. All of ya'll seem to have positive and constructive help. Believe me, you are VERY MUCH appreciated! :goodjob: I think being that this is my first big build, I am going on an emotional roller coaster whenever something good or bad happens. I just get so anxious sometimes, I need to realize that good things come with time. I think when it all is said and done, I'll be aight. I'll keep you all posted, and i'm sure I will need other info. Also, if anyone has time to train a noob, I am very serious about getting in to the automotive industry. I would love to intern at a shop or be a mop boy and just learn from different people. Plus, it could count as community service hourse possibly...:rolleyes:

[preferredduck]

if it's your fist time take it slow and make sure you have all the specs. i never thought 10 years ago i would be able to build a motor. i have now built 2 d-series and i'm starting on a better B-series for my SI.