Learn me some turbo; 101

[EvasiveEF9]

I'm jumping on the bandwagon. I'm considering losing the idea of building an all-motor daily driver, weekend warrior, and building it as a turbo'd daily driver, and occasional weekend warrior.

(Don't read this part if you don't care why, but it may help you to help me)
Why? I've got two B18A1's, and two D15's (both DPFI, non-v). I've got my 91 civic hatch that will be my daily, and I'm about to be picking up a 90 CRx, as well. Since the civ was originally my only car, and I'm highly interested in autocross the original plan was to build the civic NA, passing emissions legally and just be a fun-ass car. Well, it seems that I can't get my civ to pass even though the engine is STOCK...so if I have to pay someone to pass it anyways, I may as well play and build. Then I came across a CRx shell...so I may as well make it a track-only car.

Goal for the CRx? Keep it NA simply so that I don't have to deal with turbo lag, and messing with SCCA guidelines. It'll keep a D15, and be built for all motor with a goal of about 130hp. I THINK this is achieveable, but seeing as I'm not going professional racing with it, I won't be too upset if I fall just shy. Stick around for a future thread on the project. I plan to go to MPFI, OBD0, head-job, and a rebuild on the bottom end with some tweaking. Please ignore this project throughout the thread as I don't think I'll need help building this one. It's only listed for the "why" part of this thread.

Goal for the Civic? This is where I want your help. This will be my daily driver, and I want it to keep the OBD1 B18A1. The ultimate goal is 200whp, give or take. The B18A1 powers the 1900lb car pretty damn well, but I'd like to have a little more juice. So if I fall shy at like 175whp or so, I'll still be happy. I'd also like to have a reasonably well-powered low-end instead of just having a high top-end with alot of lag. I'm just learning about turbos, so please help me with trim, A/R, housing, etc. From what I understand from Garrett's tech-site, the lower number is a smaller housing and spools quicker. (IE: T20 is smaller than T25) From my miniscule understanding, the T20, 22, 25, or MAYBE 28 is ideal for what I'm looking for.

Budget? As always, I'd like to build it as cheap as possible, but NEEDS TO BE RELIABLE! I guess my budget would probably be somewhere around 1000-1500? (excluding tuning...this budget is for parts alone) Give me your advice on this as well.

Car: 91 Honda Civic Hatch
Motor: B18A1
Trans: LS Cable
Engine Mods: None, yet

What I KNOW has to be tinkered with to run my setup:
Fuel pump (255lph)
Injectors (still deciding size. Saw a writeup by MR. Kidd, but can't remember. I'll be back with the size he advises, as I know he's a trustworthy mainstreamer)
Turbo (waiting for advice)
Plumbing (probably ebay. waiting for diameter advice)
ECU (Probably going to be an OBD1 PR4, chipped/dyno-tuned)
Blow-off (waiting for advice on size and manufacturer)
Waste-gate (waiting for advice on size/man.)

Did I miss anything?

Questions for B18A1 prep:
I'll be building on the B18 sitting in the garage as I think this will be easier. It has 140K on it, and was an automatic that I'll be converting to a standard. It had no leaks, that I saw, no knocks, and seemed to be a pretty smooth, well operating, and well cared-for motor. I'd like to NOT rebuild if possible...
Should I rebuild this motor before putting a turbo on it?
-If so...how deep should I go for the rebuild?
Given the budget and hp goal, should I do anything to the motor before putting a turbo on? (no, I will not go LSVTEC)

Questions for going turbo:
Where in the "T20, 22, 25" etc range does the T3/T4 stand?
Should I consider buying a "rebuilt" or "turbo for rebuild"?
Which ex manifold would be more ideal? Log or tubular?
How much does size of intercooler matter for building my setup?
What size plumbing/piping should I look to run?
Which turbo/trim to go with?
What turbo manufacturer's to AVOID?
What parts would be ebay-advised (seeing as ebay seems to be the cheapest place to find parts, anymore)?
Would chipping the PR4 be more or less or equally advised/suggested against Hondata?

I think this covers just about anything. Thanks in advance for any help anyone can provide. Please keep flaming to a minimum until I learn more about turbos. This may be considered sticky-worthy as it may help to inform newbs on their hopes and dreams.

Thanks, again!

[scttydb411]

1. socketed/chipped obd1 ecu of any kind (vtec or non...it can be disabled)
2. 440cc/450cc inj will support 250-275whp would be where i would start w/ inj size
3. t28, t3 (.42/.48), or t3 (super 60)
4. 2.25" piping should be good
5. almost any intercooler size will work, but smaller size will work better for your goals and wallet. find one that is about the height of the opening of your ef bumper and it'll be big enough (30"+/- in length, 6"-8" in height, 2.5"-3" deep) and can be found on ebay easily.
6. log manifold will be more than adequate (try to get external gate), mainstream makes a good and inexpensive one as well as downpipe.
7. if you're sourcing your parts via ebay stay away from xs power, ss autocrome, obx, and stone mountain turbo for your turbo, manifold, blow off valve, and wategate. manifolds have a history of cracking, breaking, and having fitment issues w/o modifications as well as boost creep because the wastegate plumbing is too small. turbo's have a history of going bad quick. blow off valves leaking from the head causing vac leaks and boost leaks. wastegates failing.
8. the above mentioned are good for intercooler and piping (you'll probably still have to modify piping).
9. tuning and ecu socketing...hope you come see us for that.

hope this helped and good luck.

[EvasiveEF9]

Thanks, Sctty. I hope to be seeing you when this is done. I don't expect the project of building the LSTurbo to be done until...probably late fall? Maybe? We'll see. I'm a full time student who only makes a couple bucks a job on side jobs (auto maintenance) in my free time.

Shoot me a very rough estimate, though. Let's pretend I set my turbo up perfectly and brought it in and you threw it up on the dyno. How many hours of tuning before it was good to drive, and having found most of the power. I would come back at a later time with deeper pockets for more tuning, but I'm trying to see how deep my pockets need to be for the first time I walk in the shop after the build.

How much do your downpipes and log manifolds w/ ext. wastegate run? Feel free to PM if desired.

In the meantime, I'll be looking for those turbos. That, I think, would be the best place to start is getting the snail itself...then building around it. Feel free to disagree, or suggest places to look for my snail.

Thanks, again, sctty!

[scttydb411]

pm'd

[EvasiveEF9]

Might be seeing ya'll sooner than later. I'm trying one last attempt at getting the civic to pass emissions with Alan Cox (where the car has been for the last 3 weeks). Apparently it's getting too much fuel. Don't know why. The motor is bone stock.. If it doesn't pass, my car is coming to ya'll later this week in hopes ya'll can fix me. So if you see a 91 two-toned primered hatch with OBD1 LS...that's either me, or my dad might bring it down. :goodjob:

[Stopsnitchin]

turbo bandwagon? Its a way of life!!

[Evil Goat]

turbo bandwagon? Its a way of life!!


exactly what i was thinking....