fight club: Kind of a bad buyer, not really, but possibly.

[Miranda]

Well, he wanted me to take my issue here, so here I am.


A few months ago, fight club purchased my mother's white 2004 Subaru STi. I had been the primary driver of the vehicle for several months, since my 2005 STi had been converted into a race car. The '04 had several bolt on mods and a flash, but was otherwise a stock car in great condition. The car had NEVER been tracked, raced or taken off-road (I had a race car to do all that with).


Anyway, fight club expressed interest in the vehicle, but was pretty wishy washy on it for a while since he was stuck in a vehicle he was having trouble selling. I don't remember exactly what happened, but I think his car was wrecked, so he was ready to buy my mom's car. He was on a pretty strict budget, so $20K was the most he was able to pay for the vehicle. I agreed to sell him the vehicle, but told him it would be stock. I did, however, promise him an extra, painted front bumper.

I had Subaru of Gwinnett swap the stock exhaust from the race car over to the car I was selling, but there was no way to get a stock muffler back on. So, I talked to fight club and we agreed that he would give me back the custom straight pipe attached to the stock exhaust as soon as he purchased an exhaust for the car (which was his first order of business from what he told me).

On the date of sale, the audio shop in charge of removing the system from the white car was running several hours behind, which made me late meeting fight club at the bank. We made it there just in time to sign all the applicable paperwork, but I hadn't had the time to take the Optimum battery from the white car and swap it with the stock one from the race car. So, fight club agreed to meet with me at some point in the future (when he had a vehicle large enough to take the bumper) and swap the batteries.

We both made a few attempts to get together, but something always came up and we were unable to make the swaps. I didn't bother him about the straight pipe because I knew exhausts were expensive and it was probably going to take some time for him to get the money for one.

A little less than a week ago, someone told me they saw my old car driving around Norcross with a busted rear bumper. I called fight club to see what was up, and he informed me that he'd gotten a speeding ticket and couldn't afford the insurance anymore... so he sold the car. He never came to me to let me know he was selling the car. He never tried to make the swaps he promised he'd make.

So now, I'm out a $750 straight pipe and an Optimum battery because fight club did not honor the agreement we had. I PMed him about the mess and he ignored it. So, when I saw him trying to sell some stuff for his parents, I posted that he should take some of that money and use it to pay me what I'm out for my stuff. He then justified his actions by accusing me of racing the white car, which never happened.


Here's that thread:

http://www.importatlanta.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112847


~ Miranda

CN:
fight club didn't give back parts not included in the sale of my vehicle. Now he's sold the car, and I'm out major $$.

[2.0civic]

damn thats shitty as hell. i cant wait to hear how he defends this shit

[DrunkScotsman]

^ yeah what he said! hope you get your shit back

[aaronfelipe]

Is anything in writing?

[Kyle]

Thats pretty weak. You basically bent over backwards to help him get into the sti and he didn't return the favor. And by you trying to save him a little money, it cost you a lot.

People these days are very narrow minded.

[Miranda]

Is anything in writing?
We had a verbal agreement WITH witnesses, which is binding in the state of Georgia.

[aaronfelipe]

I know what you mean Miranda, but it looks like right now it is up to his moral to honor his word.

[quickdodge®]

Wow. Someone who actually seemed worth a shit isn't. Whatr a goddamn idiot.

Any of his attempts to sell or buy anything on IA should be halted. Later, QD.

[Miranda]

You're absolutely right. It will be up to him to decide what to do. I'm just hoping that this outlet will make it a little easier for him to make the right decision, if you know what I mean.

[2.0civic]

im going to lock his threads until this is resolved one way or another

[2.0civic]

hes been on in his thread and was on til 224 and still hasnt responded to this...shitty as hell...is that the same kid that flipped the CRV or whatever being a dumbass then trys to say YOU tracked the car?? LIRL at his credibility

[Vteckidd]

maybe im different but:

This is as much your fault as it is his. You have to assume that when you sell a car, your never going to see it again. if all that stuff meant that much to you, you should have waited to have it taken off before giving it to him. with nothing in writing, dont expect anything in court as its his word versus yours. especially 6months+ later.

If what you say is true, then yes hes wrong for not giving the parts back.

Lesson learned i guess

[Miranda]

As I stated previously, there were witnesses to our agreement, and that IS legally binding in Georgia. So no, this is not my word against his. This is fact. He wouldn't be a very smart person to deny that agreement here either, as he would be calling several prominent IA members liars.

That being said, while I don't agree that this is as much my fault as his (or that I bear any fault in this at all), I do agree that I did not handle this situation as shrewdly as I should have. I left myself open to potential problems, and I am living the consequences of doing so. I gave a kid on IA I knew the benefit of the doubt, and he turned out to be less than upstanding.

[Miranda]

hes been on in his thread and was on til 224 and still hasnt responded to this...shitty as hell...is that the same kid that flipped the CRV or whatever being a dumbass then trys to say YOU tracked the car?? LIRL at his credibility
What I can't figure out is why he accused me of racing the white car when I had a purpose built race car sitting in the garage. I can't imagine he wouldn't realize that everyone knows I have a race kaa. God knows I've whored out pictures of it enough over the last couple years. :lmfao:

[2.0civic]

As I stated previously, there were witnesses to our agreement, and that IS legally binding in Georgia. So no, this is not my word against his. This is fact. He wouldn't be a very smart person to deny that agreement here either, as he would be calling several prominent IA members liars.

mind saying who else witnessed it?



That being said, while I don't agree that this is as much my fault as his (or that I bear any fault in this at all), I do agree that I did not handle this situation as shrewdly as I should have. I left myself open to potential problems, and I am living the consequences of doing so. I gave a kid on IA I knew the benefit of the doubt, and he turned out to be less than upstanding.


sad that we live in that kind of world where you get screwed by people you try to help

[2.0civic]

What I can't figure out is why he accused me of racing the white car when I had a purpose built race car sitting in the garage. I can't imagine he wouldn't realize that everyone knows I have a race kaa. God knows I've whored out pictures of it enough over the last couple years. :lmfao:

yeah thats kinda dumb lol....what is the white cars defining characteristics to show ti was tracked

[Vteckidd]

its been 6 months, go to court, with your witnesses and watch him show up with witnesses too.

its hearsay, i would be extremely surprised if you got anything but a "sorry, have a nice day".

Verbal contracts are allowed, but IIRC isnt he under 18? i know hes not 21, so you better make sure he was even an adult when you sold the car to him.

Plus, i dont see a judge giving you anything without it in writing

[silversol]

its been 6 months, go to court, with your witnesses and watch him show up with witnesses too.

its hearsay, i would be extremely surprised if you got anything but a "sorry, have a nice day".

Verbal contracts are allowed, but IIRC isnt he under 18? i know hes not 21, so you better make sure he was even an adult when you sold the car to him.

Plus, i dont see a judge giving you anything without it in writing

x1

[Kyle]

x1
Huh? x1? So does that mean you acknowledge he said it but don't necessarily agree?

[B18c1Turboed]

So where you selling a car with no exaust system?

Because from what i understand in the state of GA that is a no no!! I can find the law later on when i not busy.

Also you stated that he was too give you the exaust system back, did you pay him the money to replace such exaust system?
I mean i dont wanna buy a car with no exaust, then after spending 20k have a loud fart can!!

[silversol]

Huh? x1? So does that mean you acknowledge he said it but don't necessarily agree?

no I was saying I agree with vteckidd

[quickdodge®]

So where you selling a car with no exaust system?

Because from what i understand in the state of GA that is a no no!! I can find the law later on when i not busy.

You must have just skipped over parts of the post.


Also you stated that he was too give you the exaust system back, did you pay him the money to replace such exaust system?
I mean i dont wanna buy a car with no exaust, then after spending 20k have a loud fart can!!

Who cares what you wanted. If that was the agreed upon deal, then that was the agreed upon deal. Later, QD.

[quickdodge®]

I have to disagree, Mike. With having several members of immediate family inside court activities for over 25 years each, I think some sort of restitution could come her way. Not saying it will, but it is a possibility. Later, QD.

[Vteckidd]

I have to disagree, Mike. With having several members of immediate family inside court activities for over 25 years each, I think some sort of restitution could come her way. Not saying it will, but it is a possibility. Later, QD.
I understand, im not saying it CANT happen, i just think its highly unlikely.

I mean, im not bashing her, im just saying, after 8months, and only after a "friend" of hers saw the car she makes a thread about this.

seems to me if it really meant that much, she should have taken it off the car BEFORE giving it and the title to Fight Club.

thats all i meant

[MistaCee]

Man you treated him like family and he did that to you? All I gotta say to him is karma is a bitch

[quickdodge®]

I understand, im not saying it CANT happen, i just think its highly unlikely.

The only thing I see making it unlikely would be the time fram(even though she just now found out).


seems to me if it really meant that much, she should have taken it off the car BEFORE giving it and the title to Fight Club.

That would have been the best thing to do...take your shit off before turning the vehicle over. But, at that same instance, it was a deal that they both agreed on and he should have kept up his end. Before selling the car to whoever he sold it to, he should have got in touch with her or taken the stuff off himself. He knew what he was doing, I'm sure and I'm sure he knew he was fucking her over. Later, QD.

[TIGERJC]

yea thats fucked up that he did that. But you cannot wait until 6-8 months after the transaction, especially if nothing is in writing. You may win in the court of law, but I highly doubt it. Best thing to do is trash him as a seller on EVERY board he is on and just take this experience as a lesson not to trust anyone

[Kyle]

no I was saying I agree with vteckidd
Ah next time try a x2. Because something x1 just equals itself, so that didn't make sense.

[gtikid]

Damn that's pretty fuckin dick. You agree to help someone out and they go on and fuck you over like that. That's some bullshit....

[Halfwit]

Ah next time try a x2. Because something x1 just equals itself, so that didn't make sense.
ROFL

[§treet_§peed]

I'm sowwy Miwanda..hope it works out for you..:goodjob:

[hydroshutter]

We had a verbal agreement WITH witnesses, which is binding in the state of Georgia.

Good luck with that holding up in a small claims court, even with witnesses.


Good luck with the outcome though, I hope it is positive for the both of you.

[Miranda]

Eek.. been away from the computer a few days.

To clarify a few things...

1. While it was a little over 4 months ago that I sold the car, I only found out he had sold it a few days ago. I had called him to check up on the car since I'd heard there was a rear end collision from a friend of mine, and I was concerned my exhaust had been damaged. That's when I found out he sold it.

2. In the state of Georgia, theft by conversion (which is what this equates to) has a statute of limitations of 4 years from the date of the incident (which would be the date he sold the car). That being said, I am handling this in a timely fashion.

3. Also in the state of Georgia, witnesses to the agreement do not count as hearsay. The legal definition of hearsay is as follows: "evidence from impersonal knowledge, gossip, groundless rumor, indirect evidence, popular report, unconfirmed account, unverified comments, or unverified news." As the witnesses (Justin from the LNC, Kyle from the LNC, etc) were present during the process of sale, their knowledge is direct and first person. (did I mention I'm trying to get into UGA Law School? ;) ).



I hope this helps...

[2.0civic]

my thing is why hasnt he STILL tried to defend himself here?

[Miranda]

Cause he knows he's wrong, and he also knows that nothing he says will justify his actions. Any ideas on how to get a response out of him?

[quickdodge®]

Cause he knows he's wrong, and he also knows that nothing he says will justify his actions. Any ideas on how to get a response out of him?

It appears that this dude is a bitch and will continue to behave in a manner that will justify his being a bitch. Later, QD.

[Kyle]

Yeah I dont think he will touch this thread regardless of what is done.

[Repost Squintz]

damn, that sux.

[ORGANIZATIONXIII]

so why did you never get the agreement in writing?

I don't undestand that

[ruffriderGA]

whole thing just seems like a bad deal over all.

[RandomGuy]

fight club? that little kid... aka "oz", sometimes call him 404 488 3358 i believe is his number.

[2.3 Evo 8]

3 sides to every story. Yours, his, and the truth.

[ct9a gsr]

So now, I'm out a $750 straight pipe and an Optimum battery

CN:
fight club didn't give back parts not included in the sale of my vehicle. Now he's sold the car, and I'm out major $$.

Uhh... am I the only person that's wondering why anyone would pay $750 for a straight pipe? Optima batteries aren't that expensive either... granted, if your story is true than it sucks to lose money... but you're crying about taking him to court when court fees themselves will mass to a greater amount than the value of items in arguement?

[Miranda]

David Lord from Lord Performance up in Buford fabbed the straight pipe up to be lightweight and high flow. I had one that was $200 before that, but it was 1.5" to this 3" through design. It's light and durable, and I got a gain of almost 9whp (which is more than a set of headers I had paid nearly $1300 for). In the grand scheme of things, the pipe was actually pretty inexpensive... Titanium would have cost more.

I don't want to go to court over any of it... I wasn't even the one to mention it.. I've only clarified what my rights are under the law...

Oh, and it only costs $75 to bring someone to small claims court.. and you get that back 9 times out of 10 when you win.

[The Yousef]

fight club? that little kid... aka "oz", sometimes call him 404 488 3358 i believe is his number.

that's fucked up... :lmao:

[2.0civic]

David Lord from Lord Performance up in Buford fabbed the straight pipe up to be lightweight and high flow. I had one that was $200 before that, but it was 1.5" to this 3" through design. It's light and durable, and I got a gain of almost 9whp (which is more than a set of headers I had paid nearly $1300 for). In the grand scheme of things, the pipe was actually pretty inexpensive... Titanium would have cost more.

I don't want to go to court over any of it... I wasn't even the one to mention it.. I've only clarified what my rights are under the law...

Oh, and it only costs $75 to bring someone to small claims court.. and you get that back 9 times out of 10 when you win.

lords does awesome work so ican honestly see it being that with the lifetime warranty and all

[Miranda]

BTW - Here's a response I got in another thread... just thought I'd stick it over here:


You're absolutely right, because there will be no legal altercation. The car was sold as is. She sold him a lemon, he kept her exhaust. It was a bum deal for both parties. If Zack really wanted to screw her, he could have nullified their contract (instead of selling the car) and asked for his money back. This is possible due to the fact that the vehicle was illegaly modified by the owner, in a manner to deam it un-capable of meeting emissions regulations.
Problem solved:goodjob:
What crack have you been smoking? The car was completely up to the standards of emissions in Georgia. Not only that, it was in great running order prior to the sale. What he did to it after he bought it is on him, but I had that car thoroughly checked out before selling it, and it passed with flying colors. Not only that, but it sat at Area 41, under b@d @pple's care for the two days leading up to the sale, and there were no leaks.

Zack got way more than his money's worth out of that car, and I am insulted that anyone here would try to make that car out to be a lemon, or me out to be someone who sold him a shit car. There are dozens of people on this board who know for a fact that car was in great shape, and that it was never raced. Like I said, b@d @pple (a supermod) had the car for two days. Btlfed has seen the car plenty of times before the sale. Shall I continue?

Psycho, you're completely incorrect about his ability to nullify any buyer's agreement, btw. Nice try. But if I understand what you're saying... you're telling me that Zack was a complete and utter moron because he bought a "tracked" car illegally modded, and it fell apart? :rolleyes: If that were true, and he knew that I had lied in any way shape or form in my presentation of the vehicle, he would have come back and complained. But no. I never got any complaints, even when I called several times over the course of the next few weeks to check up on him and the car (which I didn't have to do) and try to schedule a time to swap parts.

If nothing else, Zack's complete silence during this whole situation, which he knows is on IA right now, is further proof that he knows he's done wrong.

Now does anyone else here who doesn't know me want to continue to trash my character, or are we done? I didn't sell him a lemon, and I am well within my rights to be pissed.

~ Miranda

[fight club]

well, heres the time and place to go ahead and interject my side. before i do, to steveo- i dont know where the fuck you think ive been on this thread, but im only on it now because i was informed it was up. for everyone else thinking i was avoiding this or what not, i was infact in the process, and still am, moving so i have been a bit busy for this shit.

my side:
i started talking to miranda when i saw on a new post that she was planning on selling one of her sti's. i asked her how much she wanted for it and she said 24k as it sits or 21k without the system installed by area 41. i asked if she would take 20k flat out no system. i told her id contact her when my insurance had settled and all paperwork from my credit union was finished. the verbal agreement of how the car was to be sold was stock exhaust, intake, ecutek licencing, and a stock cd player with speakers. at high 30-40k miles <ill check paperwork for exact miles>, it was a great deal and i was happy. i also was very adament about the car being checked by subaru and that it had never been tracked. i simply didnt want an abused car, and at 20k that is what i was finding while looking for an sti, which was a dream of mine to buy. we agreed to meet at a bank to transfer the funds and to sign over the title etc. miranda was running late but it was no big deal. when she arrived, I, d339s, a member of speedmonky who is not on the boards we're pressent. Miranda apologized for being late. then came the following "kinks" of the greetings.

the center console was not able to clamp for some odd reason and slid around. no idea why.

the stock exhaust was not able to fit back on the car it was originally on, so a straight pipe with an oval tip was installed.

it needed tire replacement as the rear tires had rounding on them.

front bumper had a chipped center piece, which had already been noticed by me.

the driver rear trim was missing.

hid fogs were not hooked up nor were they bolted in, the ballest was stuffed behind the headlight just tight enough not to move.

while waiting for her parents, we confirmed the agreement on the front bumper replacement. i said i couldnt take it that day so id call and pick it up later. after the papers were signed while outside and, like miranda said, in the company of many witnesses, she requested two things.

if i were to put an exhaust, to allow her to have the straight pipe, which was now legally mine.

and

when i picked up the bumper, to swap the otima yellow top battery for the stock one.

i VERBALLY AGREED TO THE FOLLOWING:

IF I WERE TO BUY AN EXHAUST, I WOULD GIVE HER BACK THE STRAIGHT PIPE. KEY WORD IS IF; I FOUND THE STRAIGHT PIPE WAS A NICE TONE AND DECIDED AGIANST SPENDING MORE MONEY.

I AGREED TO SWAP THE BATTERIES WHEN I GOT THE FRONT BUMPER. WHICH DID NOT HAPPEN. I HAVE NO USE FOR THE BUMPER NOW. I HAVE MULTIPLE WITNESSES OF WHERE I CALLED AND TEXTED TO GET AHOLD OF HER FOR THE BUMPER. I HAVE A FEW FRIENDS WHO WERE LATE TO WORK SO THEY COULD HELP PICK IT UP BUT ONLY TO HAVE THE ARRANGEMENT FUCKED BY WORKING LATE OR SOMETHING ON MIRANDAS PART.

now, there is my side of the story, i was not being cowardly or any such thing. i am in the process of my parents moving and also of me getting back into school at southern. the sti was sold due to an insurance agreement with my parents. they would pay it and i wouldnt get a ticket. if i did, i either paid insurance or sold the car. as my current employer was cutting hours, i had to do the latter. if anyone should be upset it should be me. which brings me to an interesting point, the car was taken to SOG as ive been there multiple times, talking to gary and damon. the sales manager was asked to look at it for buying. he said he knew whos car it was, that everyone and their mom drove it at events, and that he would not buy it back. that was said to me, and two other members on this website in conversation. but agian, i was at a loss about this when 4 months later i get a call and get yelled at because i didnt call the previous owner of the car and ask if they wanted to pilfer through it for anything.

AS FOR THE ALLEGATIONS OF THE CAR LEAKING, BEING TRACKED ETC. THE ABOVE IS ALL I AM GOING TO SAY ABOUT THAT. THE CAR WAS BOUGHT REGARDLESS AND THE CAR MADE ME HAPPY. IF ANYONE SHOULD BE UPSET IT IS GONE IT SHOULD AND IS ME. I THANKED MIRANDA MULTIPLE TIMES FOR THE PATIENCE SHE SHOWED WHILE I GOT MY INSURANCE CHECK AND CHECK FROM MY CREDIT UNION. I APPRECIATE IT. I APPRECIATE THE MEETING WITH ME AS A BANK CLOSED SO I COULD GET TO MY JOB. I DO NOT APPRICIATE THIS THREAD OR THESE ALLEGATIONS, AND I DEFINATELY DO NOT APPRICIATE PEOPLE WHO HAVE NO CLUE OF THE EVENTS COMING IN AND PASSING JUDGEMENT.

if there is any confusion, or anyone else who wants to throw speculation my way, please pm me. id like my for sale thread open now that i have responded with mirandas comments deleted.

this has blown out of proportion and its time for it to stop.

[fight club]

oh yes- the papers from the inspection from subaru of gwinnett were never provided, and when the new house is complete (around the 14th we hope) and i am unpacked, i will be scanning a copy of the bill of sale along with anything else that was signed the date of sale.

[Vteckidd]

case closed IMO

miranda quit whining over parts that she should have taken off the car BEFORE she sold it.

with nothing in writing, this is all hearsay

/thread

[Kyle]

case closed IMO

miranda quit whining over parts that she should have taken off the car BEFORE she sold it.

with nothing in writing, this is all hearsay

/thread
Eh, I guess. But this cant end without some drama, thats why IA is entertaining.

[WickedIXMR]

And a big fuck you to all the fuck faces that always listens to one side of the story

[D.Choe]

case closed IMO

with nothing in writing, this is all hearsay

/thread

Agreed w/ Mike.

Although I'm not one to pass judgement on either party, Zack and I go way back and I can vouch for him.

He's an honest guy(even moreso when he's inebriated) and I know he's not gonna screw anyone over with his scrawny ass.

Hopefully this gets sorted out peacefully so his white ass can go back to his Redneck village.

[fight club]

Agreed w/ Mike.

Although I'm not one to pass judgement on either party, Zack and I go way back and I can vouch for him.

He's an honest guy(even moreso when he's inebriated) and I know he's not gonna screw anyone over with his scrawny ass.

Hopefully this gets sorted out peacefully so his white ass can go back to his Redneck village.

lol thanks david. and that village isnt redneck, its just RURAL. lol.
ps- im now living 5 minutes from athens......

wicked- thanks man, i appriciate your steadfast defence even though it wasnt an evo.

[fight club]

fight club? that little kid... aka "oz", sometimes call him 404 488 3358 i believe is his number.

no definately not me, noone has ever called me oz nor would they. the screenname is because i look like edward norton.

[D.Choe]

lol thanks david. and that village isnt redneck, its just RURAL. lol.
ps- im now living 5 minutes from athens......

lol whatever.
I hope you get this shit straightened out so we can play some Hold Em tonight in Athens.
Hit me up.

[Miranda]

i started talking to miranda when i saw on a new post that she was planning on selling one of her sti's. i asked her how much she wanted for it and she said 24k as it sits or 21k without the system installed by area 41. i asked if she would take 20k flat out no system. i told her id contact her when my insurance had settled and all paperwork from my credit union was finished. the verbal agreement of how the car was to be sold was stock exhaust, intake, ecutek licencing, and a stock cd player with speakers. at high 30-40k miles <ill check paperwork for exact miles>, it was a great deal and i was happy.


IF I WERE TO BUY AN EXHAUST, I WOULD GIVE HER BACK THE STRAIGHT PIPE. KEY WORD IS IF; I FOUND THE STRAIGHT PIPE WAS A NICE TONE AND DECIDED AGIANST SPENDING MORE MONEY.

First of all, you were sold the car for 20 flat because you agreed to take it with a stock exhaust. Because there was no way I could get a completely stock exhaust (and this was something we discussed before the day you took possession), I asked you if you were planning on upgrading the exhaust soon. You told me that would be the FIRST thing you did, so I told you that I would release the car to you with the straight pipe on it, as long as you agreed to return it to me as soon as you purchased the new exhaust. There was no IF about it. That straight pipe was custom built for my race car, and only my race car. It was never meant to be anything more than something you could borrow until you got your own. Remember, I wanted to sell the car WITH the Stromung exhaust system, but you couldn't afford it... even though you put me on hold for a few days to see if you could. Because of that, I had to improvise a solution in order to work with you... which was above and beyond the call of duty on my part. Please don't forget that I have witnesses... not just my friends, but my parents AND the bank staff as well.

Oh, and btw... a 3-4 year old car with less than 40K is NOT considered high mileage. As a matter of fact, it's a little below. You got an amazing deal, and you know it..


the center console was not able to clamp for some odd reason and slid around. no idea why.
This is the first I have ever heard of this... The car was at Area 41 for two days beforehand getting a system removed.. I was never informed by the staff that there were any problems.. and you never mentioned anything to me during the numerous conversations we had after you took the car.


it needed tire replacement as the rear tires had rounding on them.
The tires were worn.. you test drove the car and inspected it in daylight. I told you they were wearing down, but you also knew that I was not going to replace them for the price you paid.


the driver rear trim was missing.???


hid fogs were not hooked up nor were they bolted in, the ballest was stuffed behind the headlight just tight enough not to move.
If you would like me to post up a link to my for sale thread, I will. JDM fog lights were NEVER part of the sale. The reason being was that they did not work. I asked you if you wanted the fogs, since they weren't going to do me any good, and you said sure. But you knew you'd have to get new bulbs in order to make them work.


while waiting for her parents, we confirmed the agreement on the front bumper replacement. i said i couldnt take it that day so id call and pick it up later.

when i picked up the bumper, to swap the otima yellow top battery for the stock one.
Totally true. And as you said elsewhere, we BOTH had scheduling conflicts when trying to swap the parts.



i VERBALLY AGREED TO THE FOLLOWING:
IF I WERE TO BUY AN EXHAUST, I WOULD GIVE HER BACK THE STRAIGHT PIPE. KEY WORD IS IF; I FOUND THE STRAIGHT PIPE WAS A NICE TONE AND DECIDED AGIANST SPENDING MORE MONEY.
Once again, not true.. and I have completely impartial witnesses to back me. As a matter of fact, if you recall, my mother was concerned about you taking the car so hastily when there were two major issues left to resolve: a)the bumper b)the purchase of an exhaust and the return of my straight pipe. You and I both reassured her that we would handle everything... and she signed the title over.


the car was taken to SOG as ive been there multiple times, talking to gary and damon. the sales manager was asked to look at it for buying. he said he knew whos car it was, that everyone and their mom drove it at events, and that he would not buy it back. that was said to me, and two other members on this website in conversation.
I can't comment on this, because the dealership is currently closed. Rest assured that I will contact all parties involved tomorrow to find out whether any of them actually said that to you. If the manager did make those statements, he was lying. There's no proof that car was ever tracked or autocrossed, because it NEVER WAS (and believe me...people take TONS of pictures at those events). That car was MY MOTHER'S DAILY DRIVER until she gave it to me to use since my STi had been converted into a track car. It got me back and forth from home to work. That's it.


this has blown out of proportion and its time for it to stop.
No, this hasn't been blown out of proportion. As a matter of fact, I think I have been incredibly calm about the entire situation. I know now I should not have bent over backwards for you the way I did, but I was trying to be nice. I see that did not get me very far, but I also see you are unwilling to accept responsibility for your part in it. It's unreasonable for you to expect anyone to believe that I sold you that car with a custom piece from MY RACE CAR for $20,000. If it was reasonable, your friends wouldn't be trying to attack the condition of the car, which numerous people can vouch for... including the tech at SoG who worked on it.

Why won't you just man up and admit that you let yourself get worked up by what some guy at Subaru of Gwinnett said and your parents were breathing down your neck to sell the car (not to mention the fact you were having financial difficulties rendering you unable to purchase a muffler to sell the car with), so you felt it was ok to renig on our agreement for the straight pipe. That makes way more sense! At least I'd have some respect for you for owning up to it.

~ Miranda

[Vteckidd]

I dont see this going any further an nothing coming from it. All of it is hearsay from both parts and both sides.

[Miranda]

I dont see this going any further an nothing coming from it. All of it is hearsay from both parts and both sides.
It's not hearsay.

Oh, and by the way... here is the original for sale thread...
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1082463

[fight club]

I dont see this going any further an nothing coming from it. All of it is hearsay from both parts and both sides.

exactly, its a he said she said i have this witness i have that witness. this is all i am responding in this thread. miranda can continue with this if she wants, but i am not. the only other thing i will ever post about this is the bill of sale as i previously said.

[yeahright]

I dont see this going any further an nothing coming from it. All of it is hearsay from both parts and both sides.

I don't see this going anywhere either, but why do you keep mentioning hearsay? If the witness was there, they have direct knowledge of the event. Therefore it is not hearsay.

[TIGERJC]

I don't see this going anywhere either, but why do you keep mentioning hearsay? If the witness was there, they have direct knowledge of the event. Therefore it is not hearsay.
b/c all it is words, unless recorded or a large number of ppl hear it

[Hektik]

damn sucks to hear you got screwed miranda... i might bewrong but it seems to me like fight club is just trying to snake his way out of it cause he knows miranda doesnt really have much on him... let this serve you as a lesson written and notarized aggrements need to be done for all this type of stuff. no matter how much you trust a person...

[Glides]

lol thanks david. and that village isnt redneck, its just RURAL. lol.
ps- im now living 5 minutes from athens......

wicked- thanks man, i appriciate your steadfast defence even though it wasnt an evo.

Sounds like someone lives near me, Statham.

As for Hearsay, I hate to tell you hearing someone say something is the very definition of hearsay. Doesn't matter how many people heard it, without documentation, it's all one word against the other.

[Miranda]

Sounds like someone lives near me, Statham.

As for Hearsay, I hate to tell you hearing someone say something is the very definition of hearsay. Doesn't matter how many people heard it, without documentation, it's all one word against the other.
-1 for opening your mouth when you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

You, sir, should crack open a book every once in a while (or at least a dictionary).

Once again, for anyone who is interested in what hearsay is ACTUALLY defined as, here is the legal definition as per nolo.com (taken from Black's Law Dictionary):

hearsay - evidence from impersonal knowledge, gossip, groundless rumor, indirect evidence, popular report, unconfirmed account, unverified comments, or unverified news.

the hearsay rule - A rule of evidence that prohibits secondhand testimony at a trial. For example, if an eyewitness to an accident later tells another person what she saw, the second person's testimony is hearsay. The reason for this rule is that the opposing party has no ability to confront and cross-examine the person who has firsthand knowledge of the event.

First hand witness testimony, which exists in this situation, IS NOT HEARSAY!

[Vteckidd]

Its hearsay because NEITHER SIDE CAN PROVE THEY ARE RIGHT.

MIRANDA HAS NOTHING IN WRITING
FIGHT CLUB CLAIMS HE HAS WITNESSES TO ATTEST TO SOMETHING DIFFERENT THAT MIRANDA IS CLAIMING

WITH NOTHING IN WRITING, MIRANDA CAN "THINK" SHE CAN BRING WITNESSES ALL SHE WANTS, IF ZACH BRING 5 PEOPLE THAT BACK HIS STORY UP, CASE THROWN OUT BECAUSE OF "HEARSAY"

Im locking this due to lack of evidence on both parties. Miranda you can "take him to court" if you want. IA is not a judge or jury, and based on what has been said by both sides, i cannot say that Fight Club is a bad buyer. Maybe your a bad seller and hes a bad buyer, that i can prob agree with. He has as much right to make a thread about you as you have made a thread about him.

LOCKED

[Vteckidd]

-1 for opening your mouth when you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

You, sir, should crack open a book every once in a while (or at least a dictionary).

Once again, for anyone who is interested in what hearsay is ACTUALLY defined as, here is the legal definition as per nolo.com (taken from Black's Law Dictionary):

hearsay - evidence from impersonal knowledge, gossip, groundless rumor, indirect evidence, popular report, unconfirmed account, unverified comments, or unverified news.

the hearsay rule - A rule of evidence that prohibits secondhand testimony at a trial. For example, if an eyewitness to an accident later tells another person what she saw, the second person's testimony is hearsay. The reason for this rule is that the opposing party has no ability to confront and cross-examine the person who has firsthand knowledge of the event.

First hand witness testimony, which exists in this situation, IS NOT HEARSAY!

And you should try studying law and not definitions.

My major was criminal justice ;)

You have witneses, and they can cross examine them (IF THIS EVEN WENT TO TRIAL IN THE FIRST PLACE) and he has already demonstrated he can contradict what you are saying.

PROVE TO ME what YOU say is TRUE. you cant because you have NOTHING IN WRITING.

take your ass to judge judy an see what she says

[Miranda]

which brings me to an interesting point, the car was taken to SOG as ive been there multiple times, talking to gary and damon. the sales manager was asked to look at it for buying. he said he knew whos car it was, that everyone and their mom drove it at events, and that he would not buy it back. that was said to me, and two other members on this website in conversation. but agian, i was at a loss about this when 4 months later i get a call and get yelled at because i didnt call the previous owner of the car and ask if they wanted to pilfer through it for anything.

You are a liar of the worst kind. I knew that something sounded incredibly fishy about your story, so I called Joe Powers (the sales manager who spoke to you about trading in the STi). Here's the story he gave me:


You told him that you had gotten a ticket for 120mph+ and your parents were forcing you to sell the car, but you didn't want to. So, you asked him to give you a ridiculously low trade in value, so they wouldn't make you get rid of it. He asked you how low, to which you replied ~$12,000. He told you he wasn't interested in the car at all, because you had obviously dogged the crap out of it in the short time you owned it, if you had gotten a ticket for over 100mph. He told you he knew I had owned the car before you, and that he knew it had been built properly, with parts purchased largely from Subaru of Gwinnett. He had also seen the car when it was in the shop being put back to stock (for my sale to you), and knew it had been in good condition. However, he was not interested in a vehicle that had been abused by someone admitting to being ticketed at such a high mph!

He NEVER ONCE said I tracked the car, nor did he say that the car had been driven by anyone and everyone. He even urged you to sell it in the paper, because he couldn't justify taking the car in a trade in when parts were stock, then not stock, then stock again, regardless of the condition.

Oh, and btw, he never even looked at the car because you told him upfront to make the estimate so low.


How dare you try to spread any kind of doubt about my character by making up ridiculous accusations of me tracking/abusing my daily driver and then lying to you about it during the sale! You have absolutely no right to do so. I was sooo accomodating to you, and you have repaid me with lies and rumors.

~ Miranda


Oh, ps... I have known the folks at that dealership a long time, and they have offered to help me in any way they can... don't think for a second that they wouldn't stand behind me on this, especially with what you have accused them of... which, you can tell your buddy lightspeed, actually is libel.

[Miranda]

And you should try studying law and not definitions.

My major was criminal justice ;)

You have witneses, and they can cross examine them (IF THIS EVEN WENT TO TRIAL IN THE FIRST PLACE) and he has already demonstrated he can contradict what you are saying.

PROVE TO ME what YOU say is TRUE. you cant because you have NOTHING IN WRITING.

take your ass to judge judy an see what she says

Your major being criminal justice once upon a time is completely irrelevant, as this is a civil matter. I know this, because I AM a criminal justice/political science major getting ready to go to law school. If you really had any clue how the law worked, you would know this too.

That being said, there's no reason this thread should be closed. Just because you don't agree, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

~ Miranda ;)

[iloveboost]

Oh, ps... I have known the folks at that dealership a long time, and they have offered to help me in any way they can... don't think for a second that they wouldn't stand behind me on this, especially with what you have accused them of... which, you can tell your buddy lightspeed, actually is libel.
Even by giving the car an inspection and finding no leaks but then fight club buys it and it starts leaking?

Sorry... I don't know either party but couldn't resist.

Also, the workers there know you very well, so it could be enough reason for them not to tell you what they actually said. You spend money there, why tell you something you don't want to hear?

I know neither party, but from reading the replies... I can honestly say it's more your fault, Miranda, than his. Why?

You were responsible for making the car ready to be sold as-is. If you're not going to own up to the faults of the car and ending all responsibility (car leaking fluids, center console loose, etc), then you should not be expecting anything back from it.

Yes, he said this, you said that, your friend said when, his friend said where... round and round we go. It wouldn't hold up.

For both parties involved... count your losses, learn from it, and move on.

Edit: And if the Bill of Sale states the car is being sold AS-IS, and is in writing... he would win no questions asked. Writing > Verbal argreements.

[Vteckidd]

Even by giving the car an inspection and finding no leaks but then fight club buys it and it starts leaking?

Sorry... I don't know either party but couldn't resist.

Also, the workers there know you very well, so it could be enough reason for them not to tell you what they actually said. You spend money there, why tell you something you don't want to hear?

I know neither party, but from reading the replies... I can honestly say it's more your fault, Miranda, than his. Why?

You were responsible for making the car ready to be sold as-is. If you're not going to own up to the faults of the car and ending all responsibility (car leaking fluids, center console loose, etc), then you should not be expecting anything back from it.

Yes, he said this, you said that, your friend said when, his friend said where... round and round we go. It wouldn't hold up.

For both parties involved... count your losses, learn from it, and move on.

AMEN.

im going to have fight club make a BAD SELLER! MIRANDA! thread

[Vteckidd]

Edit: And if the Bill of Sale states the car is being sold AS-IS, and is in writing... he would win no questions asked. Writing > Verbal argreements.

:goodjob:

[Vteckidd]

I will laeve this open for 24 hours. fell free to contact Paul, Julio, Bret whoever you want. dont threaten me like a child trying to tattle to their parents. Just do it.

I dont respond well to threats

[Miranda]

Even by giving the car an inspection and finding no leaks but then fight club buys it and it starts leaking?

Sorry... I don't know either party but couldn't resist.

Also, the workers there know you very well, so it could be enough reason for them not to tell you what they actually said. You spend money there, why tell you something you don't want to hear?

I know neither party, but from reading the replies... I can honestly say it's more your fault, Miranda, than his. Why?

You were responsible for making the car ready to be sold as-is. If you're not going to own up to the faults of the car and ending all responsibility (car leaking fluids, center console loose, etc), then you should not be expecting anything back from it.

Yes, he said this, you said that, your friend said when, his friend said where... round and round we go. It wouldn't hold up.

For both parties involved... count your losses, learn from it, and move on.

Edit: And if the Bill of Sale states the car is being sold AS-IS, and is in writing... he would win no questions asked. Writing > Verbal argreements.
You are ALL missing the point of this entire thread. If my intention was solely to seek legal recourse, there would be no need for this thread at all. If you would be so patient as to read everything before you begin making blanket statements, you would see that I never once mentioned taking him to court, nor did I ever begin mentioning legal terms. Someone else started talking about legal issues, and I have clarified the terms as people use them improperly (which seems to happen a lot around here).

This forum serves as a feedback forum. Regardless of my responsibility, or lack thereof, for doing him a favor and leaving it a gentleman's agreement, what he did was wrong.

I am here because two things have happened:

1 - He screwed me on a handshake deal we had. Regardless of the legal repurcussions, people should know his character. If anyone takes the time to read everything, and think logically about the situation, he/she'd know his story just doesn't make sense.

2 - He has defamed my character by portraying me as a liar (specifically about the condition of the car). He has even gone so far as to misrepresent conversations he has had with a dealership in order to make me look bad, when I have done nothing to deserve it.



So tell me... how is this thread ineffectual? You may not agree with me 100%, but I bet a bunch of you will think twice before doing business with him.

[Vteckidd]

oh quit your whining

[Miranda]

Quit my whining? Did I strike a nerve, Mike? Or is it just that my argument has merit, and that's the best you can come up with? I don't know what your motivations are here, and I don't really care, but you have no right to speak to me this way. YOU are the problem here.

I find it sad that you, as a moderator, are happy to cloud the issue with nonsense and hysterics, but once valid points have been made that oppose your own, you feel the need to flex your moderator muscles.

[iloveboost]

2 - He has defamed my character by portraying me as a liar (specifically about the condition of the car). He has even gone so far as to misrepresent conversations he has had with a dealership in order to make me look bad, when I have done nothing to deserve it.



So tell me... how is this thread ineffectual? You may not agree with me 100%, but I bet a bunch of you will think twice before doing business with him.
How do you know that? How? Because of what someone told you.

This certain someone gets his paycheck, even if indirectly, by you spending money there.

I'm no legal expert here, but I'd venture to say that is hearsay.

How do you know he didn't tell him that? You don't.
How do you know he's not lying to save face and a customer? You don't.

[Miranda]

How do you know that? How? Because of what someone told you.

This certain someone gets his paycheck, even if indirectly, by you spending money there.

I'm no legal expert here, but I'd venture to say that is hearsay.

How do you know he didn't tell him that? You don't.
How do you know he's not lying to save face and a customer? You don't.

I know this much.. SoG would be opening themselves up to some MAJOR issues if they ever knowingly made false statements about someone's car. There are so many rules and regulations that have been inacted to protect the public from unjust business practices on the part of dealerships, that there is no way a sales manager would open himself and his dealership up to a potential lawsuit.

Besides, there would be no reason for the manager to lie. He knows I have a race car. He knows I had a daily driver. He knows I know how to take care of my vehicles, so he knows that any cars owned by me would make for a good return on the investment. I was offered a great price for my car by that dealership, but I was not in the market for a car at the time. That car would make him money on Thursday just as well as on Monday.

Hearsay is fight club relaying what the sales manager said on this forum. Hearsay is me relaying what the manager said on this forum. The manager saying what he said is not.

[Vteckidd]

then take it up with SOG , and sue Fight club for Libel and your stuff. let us know how it turns out.

Subpoena then entire LNC if you need to

[iloveboost]

http://cuboidal.org/photos/2005/08/01/IMG_7270-medium.jpg

Round and round we go.

He said, she said.

The car was sold as-is. Leaking fluids and straight pipe still on the car. You cannot prove otherwise. It is in writing I'm sure.

End of story.

[Vteckidd]

LOCKED

i will leave it viewable though so everyone can read it.

If miranda provides me with a sworn statment from SOG stating what she is claiming i will unlock it