FUCK IRAQ

[Hulud]

Troop Withdrawal Wins House Passage
Republicans Unite In Opposition

POSTED: 3:17 am EDT March 23, 2007
UPDATED: 1:41 pm EDT March 23, 2007

WASHINGTON -- After rancorous debate, the U.S. House has approved legislation challenging President George W. Bush to pull U.S. troops out of Iraq by fall 2008.

Related: Live Coverage (1:45 p.m. EDT) | Interactive | Survey




The vote was 218-212, mostly along party lines.

The war-funding measure is a victory for Democrats and Congress' boldest challenge yet to the administration's war strategy.

Democrats said it was time to heed the mandate of their election sweep last November, which gave them control of Congress.

"The American people have lost faith in the president's conduct of this war," said House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif. "The American people see the reality of the war; the president does not."

White House Press Secretary Tony Snow called the House move "a wheel-spinning exercise." He said even if the bill passes, President George W. Bush will veto it and there's "zero chance" it will become law.

A Senate committee approved a $122 billion measure Thursday financing wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, but also requiring Bush to pull combat troops out of Iraq.

That bill calls for the troops to be out by next spring, rather than the fall as required in the House bill.

[Hulud]

im glad we finally have a date when our troops are coming home :goodjob:

[Eurostunna07]

is you rollin? BITCH I MITE BE!

[Hulud]

well when they are supposed to be coming home, but who knows its just the house

[SpecV_Scott]

"White House Press Secretary Tony Snow called the House move "a wheel-spinning exercise." He said even if the bill passes, President George W. Bush will veto it and there's "zero chance" it will become law."

Great.

[Glides]

Welcome to the wonderful world of "Dirty ass politics" where anything can, and will happen. George Bush will, of course, fuck this bill up like he's fucked just about everything else up, including his speeches, since taking office.

He is the total sum of all that is American to people in other countries. A country, hillbilly sounding man who can't speak clearly and 99% of the time has no clue what he's talking about.

Welcome to America through the eyes of the outside world. Sad.

[Brett]

Troops will not be pulled out, Bush will Veto it even if it makes it to the floor. Also all this bill is doing is delaying vital money to send for the troops.

[Jecht]

Welcome to the wonderful world of "Dirty ass politics" where anything can, and will happen. George Bush will, of course, fuck this bill up like he's fucked just about everything else up, including his speeches, since taking office.

He is the total sum of all that is American to people in other countries. A country, hillbilly sounding man who can't speak clearly and 99% of the time has no clue what he's talking about.

Welcome to America through the eyes of the outside world. Sad.

Exactly the reason I'm moving elsewhere when I'm done with school. :blah:

[Hulud]

Troops will not be pulled out, Bush will Veto it even if it makes it to the floor. Also all this bill is doing is delaying vital money to send for the troops.
yea well they will still just redo it early next year and it will not be veto'd lol

[thinkfast®]

VIVA MEXICO!

[Jecht]

VIVA MEXICO!

Haha at this rate everyone will be hopping the border into Mexico! :lmfao:

[thinkfast®]

I JUST HOPE THE FENCE IS UP BY THEN

[itsjustdee]

i'm not a political person, but he seriously needs to pull the troops out already. he just won't becuz he know he has failed as president or he's just mad becuz he hasn't got his dicked sucked like clinton =X

[Jecht]

When Bush first got elected... I hated him. Everyone asked me why, and I just told them that I thought he would end up doing something really stupid. Now everyone has the same thoughts after they re-elected him into office. :rolleyes:

[Kyle]

I am pretty sick of George Bush. It never seems as if he has a definate plan for it, and it just seems like a failure. A waste of capital if you ask me.

We need to start setting deadlines and times when we need to just withdraw the troops. Bush is just digging himself deeper into a hole.

[Capt._Ron]

Yea so bush hasnt done the greatest job as president but who else are you going to put in office when the democrats keep backing these super liberal pussies for office. Im not saying Bush has been a good president im just saying that Id rather have him than anyone the democrats backed. If they had gotten into office we would be the United States of Sadaam

[Capt._Ron]

Haha at this rate everyone will be hopping the border into Mexico! :lmfao:
That shit would be awesome especially if people went over and sent so much money back that it was 30% percent of the countrys total income.

[Crazy Asian]

Like father like son? I guess Im not sure but when gore and bush i just wanted both to drop dead. Didnt like any of them.

[TIGERJC]

I never agreed with the Iraq war, but we cannot leave. If we leave Iraq in its current condition, it will come back to bite us in the ass. The U.S. should have never gone to war to begin with, but we must see it through for the sake of us in the future. I hate to see young women and men dieing over there, but we cannot leave until Iraq is stable enough to having a working gov't.

[canadianrcis]

you call bush a dumb ass, but yet you voted him in twice. so you obviously liked him. but you know you would rather have bush over that dumb faggot kerry.

[CopyRight]

this bill will be veto'ed, so it hasnt proven anything or given a date for anyone. It's like Brett said, all it is doing is halting the money the military needs...so you liberal asshats are indeed putting troops in more of harms way than Bush himself....congrats, you all got what you wanted....:rolleyes:

[Eurostunna07]

CANADA HERE WE COMME!

[TIGERJC]

this bill will be veto'ed, so it hasnt proven anything or given a date for anyone. It's like Brett said, all it is doing is halting the money the military needs...so you liberal asshats are indeed putting troops in more of harms way than Bush himself....congrats, you all got what you wanted....:rolleyes:
Didn't Dick Cheney tell the troops "you go with what you got and not the things you would like". I do agree with shouldn't hold any money back, but too say dems are more dangerous to the troops is crazy. Who sent them there in the first place and also is responsible for the lack of preparation for the war

[§treet_§peed]

think about it tho.. more than likely if the troops come back home. then they will try to attack here... where would you rather the war be going on? here on our land or over there?

[Kyle]

I never agreed with the Iraq war, but we cannot leave. If we leave Iraq in its current condition, it will come back to bite us in the ass. The U.S. should have never gone to war to begin with, but we must see it through for the sake of us in the future. I hate to see young women and men dieing over there, but we cannot leave until Iraq is stable enough to having a working gov't.
I agree with you. But the thing people fail to realize is that it takes a long time for a government to become stable. It doesnt happen in 5 years. And for us to ever expect that is ridiculous. People need to take a look at american history.

I honestly don't know what we expected as a nation. A war on terrorism and completely reconstructing and changing a country from the ground up are two different things. I don't think we knew what we were getting ourselves into, and I don't think America realized what Iraq is like.

[CopyRight]

Didn't Dick Cheney tell the troops "you go with what you got and not the things you would like". I do agree with shouldn't hold any money back, but too say dems are more dangerous to the troops is crazy. Who sent them there in the first place and also is responsible for the lack of preparation for the war


I am in the Army. I know first hand on how hard it is sometimes to get replacement parts and you can file dozens of request sheets, but it's gotta go thru the proper channels...

our troops are in harms way now, no question about it, but to not release more funding and make some silly bill that's unrealistic is most definately placing the troops in much more harms way.

also, everyone is quick to blame Bush....I know at least some of you took a us govt class or something, because you all cannot be that ignorant! GW didnt just wake up one morning and say, "let's goto war" and off they go. He's got his personal cabinet members who advise him and give him his information, congress has to "okay" it, so...somewhere down the line, those dumbass congressmen and women who are opposed to the war "okayed" it in the first place

[TIGERJC]

I am in the Army. I know first hand on how hard it is sometimes to get replacement parts and you can file dozens of request sheets, but it's gotta go thru the proper channels...

our troops are in harms way now, no question about it, but to not release more funding and make some silly bill that's unrealistic is most definately placing the troops in much more harms way.

also, everyone is quick to blame Bush....I know at least some of you took a us govt class or something, because you all cannot be that ignorant! GW didnt just wake up one morning and say, "let's goto war" and off they go. He's got his personal cabinet members who advise him and give him his information, congress has to "okay" it, so...somewhere down the line, those dumbass congressmen and women who are opposed to the war "okayed" it in the first place
He is the chief of the U.S. and his job is too look over almost everything and he is the one that will always be responsible for taking the credit for the good and the bad. Yea a lot of ppl are to blame, but u can't point the finger at them, b/c they do not have ultimate say so in the matter (they might). Look at ceos of companys for a good example of what I am trying to say. You don't blame the board of directors when things go bad for the company, you blame the ceo

[CopyRight]

He is the chief of the U.S. and his job is too look over almost everything and he is the one that will always be responsible for taking the credit for the good and the bad. Yea a lot of ppl are to blame, but u can't point the finger at them, b/c they do not have ultimate say so in the matter (they might). Look at ceos of companys for a good example of what I am trying to say. You don't blame the board of directors when things go bad for the company, you blame the ceo


the president doesnt have this "ultimate" say like you think! HE CANNOT JUST SAY OR ORDER OUR TROOPS TO WAR!! must be approved before congress!

the reason our govt is setup the way it is, is because our founding fathers did not want a dictatorship...you have congress, the house of reps....if they thought it was insane when we first went to war, they wouldve denied the president his request and most likely try to impeach him...

and, he is the President of the United States, and Commander in Chief ...not Chief of US.

[TIGERJC]

the president doesnt have this "ultimate" say like you think! HE CANNOT JUST SAY OR ORDER OUR TROOPS TO WAR!! must be approved before congress!

the reason our govt is setup the way it is, is because our founding fathers did not want a dictatorship...you have congress, the house of reps....if they thought it was insane when we first went to war, they wouldve denied the president his request and most likely try to impeach him...

and, he is the President of the United States, and Commander in Chief ...not Chief of US.
Its called check and balance system and yes I do know about it. You are looking at what I said to literally, if this was in the wallstreet section of the forum I would have approached like it was a history class. I blame bush and most of congress (both dems and republicans) for the war. Most americans do view the president position as king or chief of the land and thats why that position gets all the praise and blame

[Jecht]

you call bush a dumb ass, but yet you voted him in twice. so you obviously liked him. but you know you would rather have bush over that dumb faggot kerry.
I'm 19, I most certainly didn't vote for Bush because I wasn't old enough to vote when the election came around.

[man]

I'm 19, I most certainly didn't vote for Bush because I wasn't old enough to vote when the election came around.

Probably better that way...

[Big J]

My whole thought is on how to conduct the "war" is to actually play like it's war.

Establish a 5 mile no-man zone at the border, and declare the boarder closed and anyone caught comming across the border or leaving the country at any point other than a checkpoint will be shot. Close the fucking border and leave some bodies to show you mean it, 0 tolerance. The country isn't even secure as far as foregin nationals getting involved and smuggling weapons in.

Declare an intent to disarm the population and set a dead line. Anyone caught with weapons other than a pistol for personal protection will be detained or summarily executed as the situation dictates, the property where the weapons were found would be seized and demolished, the US army may not be able to carry this out, but acting along side of the Iraqi forces, the Iraqi forces could carry it out. This would cause the weapons to move because moderates would be forced to decide if it's worth it to hold stashes for insurgents. If weapons are moving you can find and track them. You would more clearly polarize the population into those who want to fight and those who don't.

The situation is too out of hand to play nice. Playing it like it is now will ensure it drags on forever with little change in sight. We might make more enemies playing hard, but it's what the situation dictates as far as conducting a proper war. Don't go to war wearing kid gloves, you're going to piss people off, your not going to win over the people, so make them choose sides and......... then conduct a war as such.

my $.02

[TIGERJC]

My whole thought is on how to conduct the "war" is to actually play like it's war.

Establish a 5 mile no-man zone at the border, and declare the boarder closed and anyone caught comming across the border or leaving the country at any point other than a checkpoint will be shot. Close the fucking border and leave some bodies to show you mean it, 0 tolerance. The country isn't even secure as far as foregin nationals getting involved and smuggling weapons in.

Declare an intent to disarm the population and set a dead line. Anyone caught with weapons other than a pistol for personal protection will be detained or summarily executed as the situation dictates, the property where the weapons were found would be seized and demolished, the US army may not be able to carry this out, but acting along side of the Iraqi forces, the Iraqi forces could carry it out. This would cause the weapons to move because moderates would be forced to decide if it's worth it to hold stashes for insurgents. If weapons are moving you can find and track them. You would more clearly polarize the population into those who want to fight and those who don't.

The situation is too out of hand to play nice. Playing it like it is now will ensure it drags on forever with little change in sight. We might make more enemies playing hard, but it's what the situation dictates as far as conducting a proper war. Don't go to war wearing kid gloves, you're going to piss people off, your not going to win over the people, so make them choose sides and......... then conduct a war as such.

my $.02
This is no longer the WW2 or even the Vietnam days, the media will not allow that to happen. You're right, but I don't see us doing anything like that in iraq, shit look at our on borders

[Big J]

Don't take that as me being a war monger, but if you're going to go to "war" don't half ass it. The entire original purpose of Armed Forces (again analize the term Armed Forces) is to kill, and those that aren't killing are supporting those that are. That's how it's designed to work. When you expect the soldiers to act as armed diplomats you're bound to fail.

[Ran]

Don't take that as me being a war monger, but if you're going to go to "war" don't half ass it. The entire original purpose of Armed Forces (again analize the term Armed Forces) is to kill, and those that aren't killing are supporting those that are. That's how it's designed to work. When you expect the soldiers to act as armed diplomats you're bound to fail.lol @ Gunboat Diplomacy

I agree with your post for the most part. We shouldn't half@ss our way thru the war situation, but this is America. We can barely half@ss our way through our own domestic issues, much less foreign ones.

[Big J]

Maybe the problem is a larger social issue then? War is not "Amercian Idle, or Extreme Makeover Home edition" type material. Of course there are things that happen that should never be recorded, so should they be? You either have to let war be war, the most evil and true display of humans are capable of, or you have to expect it to fail, because on the other end of the spectrum is the part human nature that despises the conserted effort it's capable of to distroy itself.

[Big J]

lol @ Gunboat Diplomacy

I agree with your post for the most part. We shouldn't half@ss our way thru the war situation, but this is America. We can barely half@ss our way through our own domestic issues, much less foreign ones.

LOL at gunboat diplomacy for being the purest display of an oxymoron.

Which gets to my ultimate point, Bush is/was incapable of comprehending the complex nature of what war actually is. I truly believe he lacks the depth of thought required to do so. So he is a danger in that sense to a good portion of humanity. The UN was chartered to prevent war form being an easy process to engage in, Bush again lacked the depth of though to respect the mission and intent of the UN, again wreckless due to an incomplete thought process. I'm done.

[Jecht]

Probably better that way...

Well all the candidates weren't worthy of the position anyways. I think this next presidential election will be the same. :(

[Frög]

ya iraq is a shit hole

[Big J]

He would support and impose laws like the "Patriot Act", which deface common interpretation of the Constitution, but can fail to act affirmativatly enough to properly conduct a war he was hell bent on fighting in the first place, again lack of a well developed thought precess. Don't go to war, then turn around and trample on the constitution I swore to uphold when I joined the military, we are, despite our personal belifes and if only by defaul, on your team dumbass. All he had going for him when we went into Afganistan was the fact everyone was pissed off, and the Talban was in part or wholy responsible and there to accept our collective anger.

So here we are 6 years later debating a point that has changed, changed again, and has been so muttled with the passage of time, it's become more and more about Bush and American polotics.

[Big J]

The troops don't need insane amounts of money to continue fighting this war, what they need is the ability to effectivly wage war by having the ultra restrictive scrunity of the media removed, and the situation viewed from a war perspective and not a political one.

But again, that becomes less and less possible as the support declines. Why has support declined? It's not the fault of the people who are aganist the war and the leadership that are running it, it's a byproduct of the pretences under which the war was started and it only grew from there, from day one. So ultimatly it is the responsibility of the leadership who started it, for it's failure, end of story. I didn't start it, you didn't start it, and support is irrelevant, blame can only easily be placed upon the leadership, it's easier than admiting ones own fault. The fact that despite the clear facts and the speculation and implications that secrecy breeds how could anyone feel diffrently.

It's not about weapons anymore, although at one time it was, it's not about liberation anymore, although one time it was, it's not about funding, it's not about "seeing it through", it's about failure. It's about owning up to failure and being willing to learn from it and taking responsibility for the results of your actions. When I loined the Army Clinton was in office, when I left Bush was in. When the election rolled around where was my absentee ballot? I didn't get one, and I couldn't leave to get one, one wasn't offered. So was I directly effected by the "unfairness" of the election, do I belive it occured? I would have to say yes. Would it have even mattered with all the "smudging" and "recounting" that was done? I don't know, but the fact that no independant investigation was conducted, no independant verification, and that even today no real changes came about because of it, I feel that EVERYONE was cheated, is still being cheated, and will continue to be cheated.

I would hope the passage of time will lend enough clarity or cloudiness to the situation to make it easier to judge the the line by which sides are devided, but knowing better, history is doomed to repeat itself.

But on a less pesimistic note, I should have my new turbo set up done soon. That's somthing, that irregaurdless of political belifes, everyone should be cool with (except if you're one of those douches that have a problem with modifications not being 50 or 49 state legal).

[preferredduck]

Its all about $$$, do some research on the bush family, the granddad sold oil to hitler. dick cheney owned haliburton. oil company, the also build military bases. that company got all the bids for iraq and nobody else was even considered and the govt takes the lowest bidder on everything else. oil oil oil oil oil oil oil. that and a terrorist tried to kill hes father back in the day.

[preferredduck]

btw my whole family is military and to risk peoples lives for money is fucking nuts. it would be different if we were not lied to by washington. look at what donald trump said about the war. makes perfect sense.

[Subuari]

sheep. FTL

[bigdare23]

Its all about $$$, do some research on the bush family, the granddad sold oil to hitler. dick cheney owned haliburton. oil company, the also build military bases. that company got all the bids for iraq and nobody else was even considered and the govt takes the lowest bidder on everything else. oil oil oil oil oil oil oil. that and a terrorist tried to kill hes father back in the day.

This man speaks the truth. Crazy thing about its, you arent supposed to be on a company's board (he's the owner) while serving office. There's something fishy about that. I have to give it for Bush Sr. tho, he's a smart ass man! Have your two sons run for governor of two of the largest states, then when the time is right, one run for presidency with the backing of the two largest states.

[Big J]

Have your two sons run for governor of two of the largest states, then when the time is right, one run for presidency with the backing of the two largest states.

That's unethical, especially if you look at which state election officials got promoted and by whom, after both elections.

[Glides]

This is no longer the WW2 or even the Vietnam days, the media will not allow that to happen. You're right, but I don't see us doing anything like that in iraq, shit look at our on borders

Then give the reporters guns and let them fight the war.

The problem with Americans is that they talk the big game but when it comes down to playing it, they balk. We want the war over and we want Terrorists dead but in the end we give them every goddam right to do what they do and then bog ourselves down with judical this and legislative that.

I agree with J, clamp that shit down. Nobody has any fear of US troops over there. Put some fear of god into those fuckers and all this shit will grind to a halt. Find a terrorist making a bomb, blow his house up with his family and shit inside it. Find out what they fear, find out what you have to do to make them think they ain't getting to heaven or Allah and do it. Use their worst fear against them and then they will think twice about fucking around.

[Frosty_spl]

I never agreed with the Iraq war, but we cannot leave. If we leave Iraq in its current condition, it will come back to bite us in the ass. The U.S. should have never gone to war to begin with, but we must see it through for the sake of us in the future. I hate to see young women and men dieing over there, but we cannot leave until Iraq is stable enough to having a working gov't.

When they have to pull out, the insurgents will take over and kill fellow Iraqies. Then It will be Bushes fault everything is fucked up. :rolleyes: Liberal douchebags will never admit to the pull out being a mistake. :2up:

[TIGERJC]

When they have to pull out, the insurgents will take over and kill fellow Iraqies. Then It will be Bushes fault everything is fucked up. :rolleyes: Liberal douchebags will never admit to the pull out being a mistake. :2up:
Its bush's and most of congress fault for this stupid war. I understand why ppl want the troops back home, but sadly thats not a wise choice. I just think it is funny that Iraq is 10x more dangerous with us there than back when saddam was in control

[Big J]

When they have to pull out, the insurgents will take over and kill fellow Iraqies. Then It will be Bushes fault everything is fucked up. :rolleyes: Liberal douchebags will never admit to the pull out being a mistake. :2up:

He is the Commander and Chief, that means he is at fault, it's part of his job, he sucks at it. He has over and over again ignored senior military officials. He views any suggestions for change as an accusation of somthing being done wrong.

Liberals will admit it when what ever the hell the other side calls itself admits the going to war was a mistake. I don't fall under any one political group/lable, I refuse to.

The pull out is a mistake, starting the war was a mistake, continuing to fight it as it is being fought is a mistake, not thinking Bush has a large protion of responsibility for all the mistakes involved in this situation is just ignorant.

None of these series of mistake would have occured if THE WAR WASN'T STARTED to begin with.

["B"]

Troop Withdrawal Wins House Passage
Republicans Unite In Opposition

POSTED: 3:17 am EDT March 23, 2007
UPDATED: 1:41 pm EDT March 23, 2007

WASHINGTON -- After rancorous debate, the U.S. House has approved legislation challenging President George W. Bush to pull U.S. troops out of Iraq by fall 2008.

Related: Live Coverage (1:45 p.m. EDT) | Interactive | Survey




The vote was 218-212, mostly along party lines.

The war-funding measure is a victory for Democrats and Congress' boldest challenge yet to the administration's war strategy.

Democrats said it was time to heed the mandate of their election sweep last November, which gave them control of Congress.

"The American people have lost faith in the president's conduct of this war," said House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif. "The American people see the reality of the war; the president does not."

White House Press Secretary Tony Snow called the House move "a wheel-spinning exercise." He said even if the bill passes, President George W. Bush will veto it and there's "zero chance" it will become law.

A Senate committee approved a $122 billion measure Thursday financing wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, but also requiring Bush to pull combat troops out of Iraq.

That bill calls for the troops to be out by next spring, rather than the fall as required in the House bill.


Pulling troops out of Iraq would be the dumbest thing that they could do.

[Big J]

I disagree, leaving them there and continuing to limp wrist the war is the dumbest think they could do. But it's too late to push for a more agressive war at this point. Not more troops but a hard take NO shit stance a "war" should dictate. Kick the media out, lock down the borders, and start leaving bodies where weapons are found.

["B"]

I disagree, leaving them there and continuing to limp wrist the war is the dumbest think they could do. But it's too late to push for a more agressive war at this point. Not more troops but a hard take NO shit stance a "war" should dictate. Kick the media out, lock down the borders, and start leaving bodies where weapons are found.


I would have to agree with your last comment, but there is no way in hell we should just pull out of Iraq. Having the Iranians dominate Iraq would spell disaster for the West.

[Big J]

It's a catch 22, they can't stay use the same stratigity. But they can't turn it up because it's too little too late, not because the insurgents are winning, but because there is not enough support for the war anymore. Again that all comes back to the President and the senior officials who led and hindered the effort.

We can stay but if we stay with the same plan it won't matter because Iran will think we're pussies and we'll prove it.