Toyota's Reception into NASCAR

[Ran]

I'm not a NASCAR fan, but I find it funny how all the "Proud Americans" are so upset about Toyota coming in Nextel Cup. First off, a lot of the heat died since Toyota hasn't done as hot as they did in the Truckman Series, but even still, the hate is definitely there. I also find it funny thatl the Ford Fusion production car is made in Mexico while the Toyota Camry production car is made here in the U.S. Of course, I'm sure that 98% of the rednecks watching NASCAR don't know this.

Anywho, I was just wondering what your take on it was.


"You know, as far as Toyota, sure, the parent company is foriegn. We could go through all that stuff and see who is right and who is wrong, but there are a lot of Toyotas that are built in the United States. They employ a lot of people. They are a great car company...but you're not going to get that across to some people, and I'm not going to try to..."

[Crazy Asian]

HICKS FTMW !!!!!

[Mike Lowrey]

Stupid Rednecks FTL!

[OneSlow5pt0]

im a chevy man..Fuck Ford

[§treet_§peed]

haha fuck USDM

[HeLLo iM iZzY]

IMA FORRDDD MANNNN THATS ALLL I DRIIVEEEEEE

LOL !

[OneSlow5pt0]

If u dont chew Big Red..then FUCK YOU!!!!!

[AnTi-PooN]

jap crap

[Matt300ZXT]

Who cares what a bunch of guys that can only make left turns think? Maybe Nascar will go away one day, one can only dream.

[Elbow]

NASCAR FTL long live sports car racing ;)

[japan4racing]

i love how most ppl hate on nascar but have no idea how hard it really is. its more than just turning left. if it was as easy as all the retards think then any jack ass with a ton of money could get into it and win races...we know this is not the case though. there are many ppl with alot of money and alot of experience that just cant do shit in nascar. if its so easy how come montoya is not leading the points? alot of ppl consider him to be a great racer with great talent.....but he is not doing great at all...avg finish position of 18th for the season. highest finish in the cup is 5th. its no suprise that the same ppl finish up top nearly every year..they have been in it and have figured it out. jeff gordon, jimmie johnson, tony stewart, matt kenseth..they are finishing well for a reason..not because its easy but becuase they have found out what works and how to drive these tracks(or how to turn left for the idiots that refuse to accept nascar as a sport).

as for toyota, man what a horrible start. and waltrip is just bombing here. but then again i dont think anyone here could do a better job. its hard to get started in cup racing. you dont just come on the scene and get it done. this should be the proof that its not easy right here...toyota..the one import company that is crushing ford, gm, and chrysler sales/service comes in here with all the money they have, all the knowlege from the craftsman series, and recruits some damn fine drivers...waltrip, jarrett, mayfeild, vickers ect ect...and they still cant do shit. half the time only 2 toyotas will even qualify. give them a couple years to get things going and they will be a force to reckon with. another thing slowing them down is the fact that they not only have to learn the regular car but also the cot....so they are learning 2 cars at once all while trying to be competitive

[Elbow]

Nobody said NASCAR was not hard, but it is pretty lame I think. As for Toyota having money and all, true. They should be doing good, IF they did a LOT of testing for a LONG time. Some teams in racing can jump in a race series and do well. It just takes time and learning. NASCAR and road racing are totally different driving styles which is probably why Montoya is not too hot. But for talent factor, nobody can say NASCAR is harder then road racing. I will never listen to that lol.

[Sol-Badguy]

Nobody said NASCAR was not hard, but it is pretty lame I think. As for Toyota having money and all, true. They should be doing good, IF they did a LOT of testing for a LONG time. Some teams in racing can jump in a race series and do well. It just takes time and learning. NASCAR and road racing are totally different driving styles which is probably why Montoya is not too hot. But for talent factor, nobody can say NASCAR is harder then road racing. I will never listen to that lol.
:goodjob:

[civic95]

i love how most ppl hate on nascar but have no idea how hard it really is. its more than just turning left. if it was as easy as all the retards think then any jack ass with a ton of money could get into it and win races...we know this is not the case though. there are many ppl with alot of money and alot of experience that just cant do shit in nascar. if its so easy how come montoya is not leading the points? alot of ppl consider him to be a great racer with great talent.....but he is not doing great at all...avg finish position of 18th for the season. highest finish in the cup is 5th. its no suprise that the same ppl finish up top nearly every year..they have been in it and have figured it out. jeff gordon, jimmie johnson, tony stewart, matt kenseth..they are finishing well for a reason..not because its easy but becuase they have found out what works and how to drive these tracks(or how to turn left for the idiots that refuse to accept nascar as a sport).

as for toyota, man what a horrible start. and waltrip is just bombing here. but then again i dont think anyone here could do a better job. its hard to get started in cup racing. you dont just come on the scene and get it done. this should be the proof that its not easy right here...toyota..the one import company that is crushing ford, gm, and chrysler sales/service comes in here with all the money they have, all the knowlege from the craftsman series, and recruits some damn fine drivers...waltrip, jarrett, mayfeild, vickers ect ect...and they still cant do shit. half the time only 2 toyotas will even qualify. give them a couple years to get things going and they will be a force to reckon with. another thing slowing them down is the fact that they not only have to learn the regular car but also the cot....so they are learning 2 cars at once all while trying to be competitive

I totally agree with you man.

And to all the haters, nascar does have 2 road courses they race on. The main reason they don't have more is because of the lack of spectators. Some people will not go to a race that they can only watch 1 or 2 corners of. They want to watch the whole race. But yeah F1 and IRL are SO much better. That's why they are struggling to get attendance at races, and the TV coverage Nascar does. Or maybe the world is just full of rednecks. Yeeha

[Elbow]

ALMS and Grand Am are doing pretty good this season. When NASCAR does race on road courses arent there some road race drivers in the cars, and some NASCAR drivers have previous experience in road racing. Also, they just are weird seeing on a road course...

[civic95]

ALMS and Grand Am are doing pretty good this season. When NASCAR does race on road courses arent there some road race drivers in the cars, and some NASCAR drivers have previous experience in road racing. Also, they just are weird seeing on a road course...

Yeah some teams will field an extra car for those races, and put someone like Scott Sharp in it. The only one thats ever done well is Boris Said. Don't quote me but I don't think he's ever won one of them.

[japan4racing]

Nobody said NASCAR was not hard

some think it is easy...its just turning left after all


but it is pretty lame I think.

we are all intitled to our opinions


NASCAR and road racing are totally different driving styles which is probably why Montoya is not too hot.

not only different styles but the cars are so much different. they dont handle near as good as open wheel cars or other light race cars. a nascar car is very heavy and is no doubt a bear to turn in tight quarters. its more than just the style of racing that is contributing to montoya as well as others that have joined the sport and not done well.


But for talent factor, nobody can say NASCAR is harder then road racing. I will never listen to that lol.

none of us will know untill we try both them....i cant confirm it either way and niether can you or anyone else.

[Elbow]

I have road raced my whole life, maybe set me up for a test in a cup car and I will check it out lol. My money is on the road racing though.

[nofive-0]

I have done the richard petty thing and I have also drove Formula SAE cars. The road race thing is much harder for one reason. Consistency. It is much harder to be consistent on a road course in my opinion. I think one of the reasons why Nascar does so well is because it IS a spectator sport. I think it isn't the actual racing that sells Nascar tickets I think its the event. People go to nascar events because they can feel like they are a part of the race because they can see the entire race. Loud cars, stadium like arenas where the entire track can be seen, red neck women, and beer your gonna sell lots of tickets. Not to mention when is the last time you saw a commercial for a sports car race?

[Elbow]

Oh....and NASCAR has spectacular fire ball wrecks...;)

[Frög]

i hate NASCAR..

[japan4racing]

I have road raced my whole life, maybe set me up for a test in a cup car and I will check it out lol. My money is on the road racing though.

thats all good...montoya has a pretty impressive record that i am sure surpasses yours and still has done jack for nascar take a look:

1981-1984: Karting Colombian National Champion
1985: National Junior Kart Championship: 2nd
1986-1987: Komet Category: National Champion
1988: Komet Category: 2nd in National Championship
1989: Komet Category: champion
1990: Kart Junior World Championship
1991: Kart Junior World Championship
1992: Colombian Formula Renault: 8 races, 4 wins, 5 poles
1993: GTI National Championship Tournament: 8 races, 7 wins, 7 poles
1994: Sudan 125 karting: champion
Barber Saab series: 3rd, 2 wins, 2 poles
Mexican 'N' series: 5 races, 3 wins, 4 poles
1995: Formula Vauxhall, England: 3rd (Paul Stewart Racing)
Bogotá Six Hours: class winner
1996: F3, England: 5th, 2 wins, 1 pole (Fortec)
Marlboro Masters: 4th
Macau GP: ret
ITC: 16th, 1 race (Mercedes-Benz)
Bogotá Six Hours: winner
1997: F3000: 2nd, 37.5 points, 3 wins (RSM Marko)
1998: F3000: 1st, 65 points, 4 wins, 2 poles (Super Nova)
1999: CART: 1st & rookie of the year, 212 points, 7 wins, 7 poles (Ganassi)
2000: CART: 9th, 126 points, 3 wins, 7 poles (Ganassi)
IRL: raced and won the Indy 500 (Ganassi)
2001: Formula 1: 6th, 31 points, 1 win, 3 poles (Williams)
2002: Formula 1: 3rd, 50 points, 0 wins, 7 poles (Williams)
2003: Formula 1: 3rd, 82 points, 2 wins, 1 pole (Williams)
2004: Formula 1: 5th, 58 points, 1 win, 0 poles (Williams)
2005: Formula 1: 4th, 60 points, 3 wins, 2 poles (McLaren)
2006: Formula 1: 8th, 26 points, 0 wins, 0 poles (McLaren)
2007: Rolex 24 at Daytona Daytona Prototype class winner and overall winner

thats 26 years of hittin the twisties and he has done pretty good. but when it comes to nascar the only thing he has won was a busch race with right and left hand turns..and he punted his teammate out of the way to win that. he still has not figured out the whole turning left thing.

as for the guy that did the petty driving experience....you where out on the track with pace car and you did not do 200 mph.....try to go 180+ with cars 3 wide all around you see if you can hold on to it. you wanna see some driving watch the race this weekend coming up..talladega...they floor it and dont lift untill the end. the avg speed record there is 188mph..thats avg..they hit over 200 mph...going into the turns at 190 in 3400lb car. im not trying to say that road racing is easy by any means im just saying that nascar is more than just some dumb rednecks driving in circles...and even as the "dumb rednecks" turn left, a bunch of you ppl still cant comprehend whats going on.

bottom line is nascar is ftw

[GTScoob]

But yeah F1 and IRL are SO much better. That's why they are struggling to get attendance at races, and the TV coverage Nascar does. Or maybe the world is just full of rednecks. Yeeha
I wonder how many people worldwide watch F1 compared to worldwide NASCAR fans? And the Indy 500 IS the greatest spectacle in racing, if you've ever been you'll understand, and if not then you'll hate on it.

That being said, I'm not a big NASCAR fan. It bores me to tears but it still gets a lot of common people interested in cars and that in turn helps bolster interest in other racing series. All of you guys saying how easy NASCAR is, try running almost 200mph with inches between you and the cars surrounding you. It's kind of like watching the Navy Blue Angels fly in tight airshow formations; you've gotta have lots if skills and confidence in order to perform under such demanding conditions.

[Elbow]

Well then try going 200mph next to another car in a right hand turn, and then battle in braking to make a even sharper right hand turn, that goes to a left hand turn!!!! Right and left!?!?!? ;)

[japan4racing]

Well then try going 200mph next to another car in a right hand turn, and then battle in braking to make a even sharper right hand turn, that goes to a left hand turn!!!! Right and left!?!?!? ;)

wanna try it with 42 other cars all around you and they all weigh 3400lbs and handle like a dog turd on ice. like i said before, i dont doubt road racing is hard...and i am not really saying nascar is harder. (neither of us really know) just trying to convey the message that its not just turning left in a big car. after me and you finish our careers in nascar and road racing we can really have a good debate on this

[Elbow]

Do you race?

[japan4racing]

i only street race with my vtak son!!!

i drag race...its just driving in a straight line so its way easier

[Elbow]

Oh ok, that's cool, just wondering.

[japan4racing]

to be honest with you if you can still turn i dont think you are going fast enough. seriously though. i wouldnt mind driving on a road course. ther eis alot of auto-x here locally and i have been to a ton of them but it just does not interest me to drive that slow. i need speed. i see these auto-x events here and they rarely get out of 2nd gear. it no doubt takes some skill and you have to know your car but its just not for me....road course now.....thats where i can have some fun. i could learn about my car and better my driving skills and still be able to go faster than 45mph.

[Elbow]

Autocross looks slow and boring but it is pretty damn fun, and extremely hard. Plus cheap, road racing you run into HAVING to have a roll cage, race seat, harness, battery cut off switch, suit, helmet, ALL that PLUS the mods to be in your class.

[Ran]

Autocross looks slow and boring but it is pretty damn fun, and extremely hard. Plus cheap, road racing you run into HAVING to have a roll cage, race seat, harness, battery cut off switch, suit, helmet, ALL that PLUS the mods to be in your class.Autocross fails for lack of seat time. I went to an autocross once and drove a total of 10 minutes all day. I'd rather pay to enter my Yaris in a DGTrials drift event and just speed/understeer around all day.

Road courses are your best bang for buck. A whole day at TGPR for 12 people last year was only $120 a person and we got hours of seat time in.

/jacking my own thread

Back to Toyota not doing very well in NASCAR.

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k149/mwk82/BoringNascar.jpg

[japan4racing]

oh yea, we did get off topic....so how about micheal waltrip wrecking his personal vehicle....opinions on what happened?

i say he was drunk becuase he realizes he sucks at the life

[civic95]

oh yea, we did get off topic....so how about micheal waltrip wrecking his personal vehicle....opinions on what happened?

i say he was drunk becuase he realizes he sucks at the life

I think he was getting road head from his boyfriend, and lost it (when he lost his load). You know he is in the closet!!!

[civic95]

I have done the richard petty thing and I have also drove Formula SAE cars. The road race thing is much harder for one reason. Consistency. It is much harder to be consistent on a road course in my opinion. I think one of the reasons why Nascar does so well is because it IS a spectator sport. I think it isn't the actual racing that sells Nascar tickets I think its the event. People go to nascar events because they can feel like they are a part of the race because they can see the entire race. Loud cars, stadium like arenas where the entire track can be seen, red neck women, and beer your gonna sell lots of tickets. Not to mention when is the last time you saw a commercial for a sports car race?

I agree with you too. A lot of it is entertainment value. I do believe some drama is orchestrated into nascar. Between drivers, etc. Also the rules are so strict to keep the cars close together to create "racing" (aka: rubbing/wrecking). If they rules were slacker the cars would be spread out like at a F1 race, and people would find it less exciting. You can't get 2 laps down, and come back to win a race in F1. Part of the excitement is knowing until the last 50 laps just about anyone can win.

[2Fast4Radar]

i love how most ppl hate on nascar but have no idea how hard it really is.Maybe I don't know how hard it is, but I know I'd rather watch the Food Network than watch NASCAR on TV. It the most boring racing event ever dreamt of. I mean I think drifting events are really retarded since it's figure skating with a car and as much as I hate to say it drifting is more interesting to watch than NASCAR. I can't believe I said it - there something automotive related that is worse than drifting events.

NASCAR would be cool if it stuck to its roots of using REAL "stock" cars and raced them. Shit there's nothing stock about them anymore! What's left of NASCAR is nothing but a total perversion of what it was originally meant to be.

[japan4racing]

NASCAR would be cool if it stuck to its roots of using REAL "stock" cars and raced them. Shit there's nothing stock about them anymore! What's left of NASCAR is nothing but a total perversion of what it was originally meant to be.

think of how boring it would be if they were stock cars like back in the day....a bunch of fusions, chargers and impalas driving around the track....that would be really boring my freind. who the fuck wants that shit? how boring would it be to watch a bunch of of sub 200whp cars drive around with a/c blasting and sirius satalite radio......if you ask me it seems they are much closer to what they used to be than if they were to go back to completely stock like you want. go back to your drifting programs and dont post in this thread anymore because you obviously dont think about what you are posting before hand.

[Ran]

think of how boring it would be if they were stock cars like back in the day....a bunch of fusions, chargers and impalas driving around the track....that would be really boring my freind. who the fuck wants that shit?I don't think he means like, "off the show room floor" stock, but more like the actual cars. The only thing in these cars that even somewhat resembles to actual production cars is the shell, and even it is a pretty poor rendition seeing how they're all basically the same aside from different drawn-on lights and stickers. They're hardly what I think either of us would call a "stock car" even though the term is supposed to be directed at a production based vehicle.


how boring would it be to watch a bunch of of sub 200whp cars drive around with a/c blasting and sirius satalite radio......I've watched many a Spec Miata race and have thoroughly enjoyed myself. They're a lot closer to a "stock car" than anything on the NASCAR track.

[japan4racing]

I don't think he means like, "off the show room floor" stock, but more like the actual cars. The only thing in these cars that even somewhat resembles to actual production cars is the shell, and even it is a pretty poor rendition seeing how they're all basically the same aside from different drawn-on lights and stickers. They're hardly what I think either of us would call a "stock car" even though the term is supposed to be directed at a production based vehicle.

thats how nascar used to be...take a car, do some backyard mechanic mods to it and go run at the track. research some old nascar stories from the legends and you will find alot of crazy stuff. stories about stealing there fathers car and going to run the races. buying a car on the way to the track and getting there and running it. thats what nascar used to be, a bunch of nearly stock cars with a bunch of "free" mods that some redneck did.



I've watched many a Spec Miata race and have thoroughly enjoyed myself. They're a lot closer to a "stock car" than anything on the NASCAR track.

and how exciting would it be to see 43 miata's in stock trim with some basic bolt-ons go around talladega for 500 miles???? about as exciting as a sack of dead babies in the bottom of a septic tank.

[Ran]

thats how nascar used to be...take a car, do some backyard mechanic mods to it and go run at the track. research some old nascar stories from the legends and you will find alot of crazy stuff. stories about stealing there fathers car and going to run the races. buying a car on the way to the track and getting there and running it. thats what nascar used to be, a bunch of nearly stock cars with a bunch of "free" mods that some redneck did.That exactly what I'm referring to. That was real stock car racing.


and how exciting would it be to see 43 miata's in stock trim with some basic bolt-ons go around talladega for 500 miles???? about as exciting as a sack of dead babies in the bottom of a septic tank.About as exciting as watching any other car do circles around Talledega for 500 miles. Not very, which is why I'm not a NASCAR fan. That's why I watch road course races like American LeMans. Hell, I miss watching WRC on Speed. Then Speed Channel became NASCAR TV. :(

[japan4racing]

That exactly what I'm referring to. That was real stock car racing.

so like i said....who wants to see a bunch of ford fusions, dodge chargers, and impalas go at it on the track when you can see what we have today go 200+mph


About as exciting as watching any other car do circles around Talledega for 500 miles. Not very, which is why I'm not a NASCAR fan. That's why I watch road course races like American LeMans. Hell, I miss watching WRC on Speed. Then Speed Channel became NASCAR TV. :(

rally was very cool. i loved watching that shit. i guess nascar takes a certaint person to be able to watch it....i find it funny that most ppl cant comprehend it...even though most make it seem so simple....to me when i hear ppl say "nascar is boring..its just turning left" its the same thing as saying..."having sex is no fun.....you are just going in and out"

**disclaimer: in no way what so ever am i saying nascar is as good as sex...it was just an analogy that i figured everyone could relate to.

[Ran]

so like i said....who wants to see a bunch of ford fusions, dodge chargers, and impalas go at it on the track when you can see what we have today go 200+mphI understand where you're coming from, but what says we have have to limit it to Impalas and Fusions? Hell, I wouldn't mind seeing hoped up Mustangs, Camaros, Chargers, and Challengers out there fighting for the checkered flag. That could fun as hell, and there would be variety! :yes:


rally was very cool. i loved watching that shit. i guess nascar takes a certaint person to be able to watch it....i find it funny that most ppl cant comprehend it...even though most make it seem so simple....to me when i hear ppl say "nascar is boring..its just turning left" its the same thing as saying..."having sex is no fun.....you are just going in and out"Not at all. I understand that it takes strength and skill to drive in a NASCAR race and I respect the drivers for what they do. Hell, I know that I'd be freaking out if I was driving 12in from three other cars at 210mph. The races, to me, are just kind of boring after about the 150th mile. Now, I've been to the Talledega race in person more than once and I'll admit that the atmosphere, partying, and everything else makes it a hell of a lot of fun. :)

[japan4racing]

I understand where you're coming from, but what says we have have to limit it to Impalas and Fusions? Hell, I wouldn't mind seeing hoped up Mustangs, Camaros, Chargers, and Challengers out there fighting for the checkered flag. That could fun as hell, and there would be variety! :yes:

im with you on that....it would be nice to have the sportier cars out there but ford, chevy, and dodge have other plans. they are trying to sell cars..beleive it or not this stuff still sells their cars. its easy to sell a mustang, camaro, vette, or one of the many "hemi" powered dodges.....but who wants a fusion? who wants an impala...intrepid anyone? v6 charger????? no one wants that but ppl see tons and tons of advertisement from these run of the mil cars that are affordable to the normal ppl. all the commercials about how fun the fusion is, the impala commercials are very youthful, and the dodge commercials always have high energy....hell, i even sometimes watch the commercials during the race and wonder if the fusion really is as fun...i know its not but some old geezer some where will go buy one. what wins on sunday sells on monday....and as long as thats the case you wont see sportier cars out there. and as long as cars keep getting less powerful and more luxurious you will get farther and farther away from seeing stock cars. people want speed.....some crazy looking car going 200mph is way more appealing than watching a ford fusion run 125 on the straights. no to emntion with all the safety rules and such by the time you took a stock car and had it legal guess what it would look like......tune in next sunday to find out

[Ran]

I'm not going to quote your post because it's f*cking huge, but there is nothing but truth in it. :yes:

[japan4racing]

i have a tendency to type forever when i get into my debate mode....sorry about that

[StupidBikerBoy]

I'm not a NASCAR fan, but I find it funny how all the "Proud Americans" are so upset about Toyota coming in Nextel Cup. First off, a lot of the heat died since Toyota hasn't done as hot as they did in the Truckman Series, but even still, the hate is definitely there. I also find it funny thatl the Ford Fusion production car is made in Mexico while the Toyota Camry production car is made here in the U.S. Of course, I'm sure that 98% of the rednecks watching NASCAR don't know this.

Anywho, I was just wondering what your take on it was.

No different than the hate domestics got when they started in the different drift events.

[Ran]

No different than the hate domestics got when they started in the different drift events.True