have wastegate, need boost controller?

[ejohnson88]

If I get an external wastegate, will there be a need for say a Manual boost controller? or will it just be an add on ? All info is greatly appreciated!

[ChefJ]

Yes. Depending on the spring in the wastegate and the turbo size and alot of other things you may get boost creep and you can minimize this with a manual boost controller.

[EmminoDaGreat]

Not necessarily a need, but it can help you, but unless you build your motor, you dont need to run too much boost evan. btw im gettin that paper too you soon lol.

[srtowner]

If you are running an external waste gate you do not have to use any type of boost controller if you do not want to. Just make sure the WG spring is matched to the boost level you want to run. There is a wide verity of springs so you should have no trouble getting the one you need. I don't know about the boost creep Chef is talking about but in my experience I have seen the most stable boost level with waste gate only. Allot of times when people get boost creep it is because of boost/vacuume leaks and not a product of the the WG.

[ejohnson88]

Alright well I am looking stuff for now that can also be used later on... I plan on building a motor... so it looks like i will go ahead and get the boost controller so that later on when I do have an engine that will be able to handle more than 8-9psi I will have the boost controller there to aid in that :) thanks for the input guys! And yeah thanks James its not really a hurry car isn't running quite yet... but hopefully in the next 2-3 weeks it will be! It should be back up at the shop within that time!

[viperbite]

yeah a boost controller just leaks air from the intake manifold through vacuume *from what ive read about it atleast* and if you get a wastegate it opens when there is alot of pressure in the headers. so high rpm high throttle
im pretty sure they make programmable wastegates... uncertian though

[Vteckidd]

Yes. Depending on the spring in the wastegate and the turbo size and alot of other things you may get boost creep and you can minimize this with a manual boost controller.
really? explain to me how a manual boost controller or an electronic boost controller minimizes boost creep issues. you must understand what a WASTEGATE does to understand boost creep. you are way off ;)

If you purchase a EXTERNAL WASTEGATE, you can buy different springs to determine what boost you want to run. a 5psi spring is 5psi, a 7psi is 7 psi an sor forth. Now, boost controllers can usually do DOUBLE the wastegate spring. so a 10 psi spring can USUALLY do 20psi.

on a stock motor , sure you could run a 5psi wastegate spring an use a manual or electronic boost controller to turn the boost up to say 8-10psi, no problem with that at all.

Manual boost controllers SUCK. they arent very accurate, and if you make an adjustment, you have to do a pull to see what boost your at. With an electronic boost controller, you can set it to a PSI and with an actuator an pressure sensor it dictates boost level based on your settings for you. much easier.

Manual boost controllers are usually underhood, so youll have to stop, pull over, pop hood, and turn knob. Electronic boost controllers you can make adjustments inside the car.

BOOST CREEP is usually by having too small of a wastegate or vacuum leaks or an improperly hooked up boost controller.

CREEPING usually happens because the wastegate cannot dump enough air fast enough. A turbo spins astronomically, if there were no wastegate it would do 100psi since it would spin faster and faster the more the motor revs or sucks in air.

Imagine putting a BIG turbo (GT42R)with a 38mm wastegate. THe turbo is going to spin and generate positive pressure aka boost. now, imagine how much air that big turbo is moving. you have a small wastegate. lets say you have a 15psi spring. when you get to the 15psi level, the wastegate has got to open an dump enough air out of the manifold to keep boost stable at 15psi. However, as i said before, the turbo keeps spinning faster an faster regardless since there is no way to physically slow the turbo down. Now that big turbo is forcing more air into the motor an overpowering the tiny wastegate, which means you cant dump the excess air, and the turbo free spins generating more boost. you now are going past the 15psi level, and your boost creeping.

make sense?

[ChefJ]

I do understand what a wastegate does. Just because you put an 8 pound spring on a turbosmart 44mm wastegate doesn't mean it won't creep to 9-10 pounds. Trust me I know. And don't say that I have a vaccum leak or any other issues this was on a dyno and we used 2 different 8 pound springs and had the same issues.

[Vteckidd]

so a manual boost controller will solve your boost creep issues then? explain to me HOW

[ChefJ]

No the manual boost controller will not solve the boost creep problem as you can only add boost with it. I was just saying to purchase one as they are less expensive and sometimes more accurate then the electronic version.

[Vteckidd]

No the manual boost controller will not solve the boost creep problem as you can only add boost with it.

Really? then why did you say this:

Yes. Depending on the spring in the wastegate and the turbo size and alot of other things you may get boost creep and you can minimize this with a manual boost controller.

contradicting as hell if you ask me.



I was just saying to purchase one as they are less expensive and sometimes more accurate then the electronic version.
more accurate? do you even know what your saying? please tell me how a valve with a knob on it is more accurate than a $200 Aircraft quality pressure sensor and digital readout.

thats like saying a sundial is more accurate than a Rolex

normally i wouldnt jump on people so hard, but you keep spreading really bad information and it pretty obvious you are still learning. nothing wrong with that, just make sure you know what you are talking about before you give advice cause so far you have been way wrong.

thanks

/classroom discussion v. dismissed

[CHADbee]

mike ftw

[SPOOLIN]

some guys in the pro classes are not using BOV or boost controller and using a LARGE wastegate on the charge pipe to dump the air there instead of the exhaust. It basically makes the turbo spin faster and a shit load harder over revving the turbo to make the same boost but faster. IT makes a turbo last maybe 2 race events because they spin past their max RPM which is usually 105,000-110,000 rpm. say like 135,000 or more. just another side note.

[ejohnson88]

intersting well the wastegate I have is going on the exhaust mani, and then I have a manual boost controller that MSPi is going to install so I Know they will have it all figured out.

[ranj]

Really? then why did you say this:


contradicting as hell if you ask me.


more accurate? do you even know what your saying? please tell me how a valve with a knob on it is more accurate than a $200 Aircraft quality pressure sensor and digital readout.

thats like saying a sundial is more accurate than a Rolex

normally i wouldnt jump on people so hard, but you keep spreading really bad information and it pretty obvious you are still learning. nothing wrong with that, just make sure you know what you are talking about before you give advice cause so far you have been way wrong.

thanks

/classroom discussion v. dismissed
yeah man i hate how ppl just start spreading false information about what they know so little about.
i've been trying to learn about turbo charging because i'm thinking of going that route, but its so discouraging when you read so much from what someone has said and a large percentage of it ends up being wrong.
Nothing wrong in trying to help someone out, but like Mr.Kidd is saying, don't give advice on things you don't know about.

[ChefJ]

I guess you guys are right. I don't work on cars for a living, because I graduated from college. I also don't sit in front of the computer all day and belittle people for giving advice albeit right or wrong.

[Vteckidd]

I guess you guys are right. I don't work on cars for a living, because I graduated from college. I also don't sit in front of the computer all day and belittle people for giving advice albeit right or wrong.
dont delete your post man, let it stay.

Great for you, you passed college. When i post something wrong about Pi or the area of a triangle then by all means correct me.

but this isnt about college , this is about MODDED CARS. and you were wrong, dont pass out bad info, and i wont claim to know the volume of a trapazoid

[ChefJ]

Boost creep is rising boost due to not enough exhaust bypassing the housing. For example, you're set for 13 psi, and when you floor it, you get a quick rise to 13 or 14 psi. But then as rpm's climb, the boost creeps higher and higher: 14, 15, 16, 17, etc. Enlargening the wastegate hole is one cure for boost creep, as you did.

Spiking is when your wastegate hole is large enough, but your actuator can is taking too long to fill with compressed air, so you *temporarily* overshoot your boost level. Example: you're set for 13 psi, and when you floor it it quickly rises to 16 psi, but then gradually drops downward towards 13 psi again.

A common problem with modded engines is a combination of spiking AND boost creep. That's where you're set for 13 psi, and when you floor if it overshoots to 16 psi, *begins* to drop back down, but as the rpm's rise it goes up again!

Normal boost rise when set to 13 psi = shoots up to 14, then 13, 13, 13...
Spiking = shoots up to 16, then 15, 14, 13, 13, 13...
Boost creep = shoots up to 14, then 13, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17...
Spiking and boost creep = shoots up to 16, then 15, 14, 13, 14, 15, 16,17...
Set a manual boost control to 11 psi and floor it slowly in high gear. It should go to 11 psi and hold it pretty well. If it starts to slowly climb over 11 psi as the rpm's get high, that's "creeping". The boost creeps higher at high rpm's because there's too much exhaust flow for the wastegate hole to bypass.

Now go to 11 psi again, but tromp on it quickly! It will shoot to 13, or 14, or 15 psi, then drop down to 11 and stay there. That's "spiking".

Spiking is a quick flash of high boost that goes a little beyond your set boost point. If you are set for 11 psi, and you tromp on it quickly, this might happen: boost "spikes" to 14, quickly drops to 11, then slowly "creeps" back to 14 or more as the rpm's climb. Now you are seeing spiking followed by creeping! ;)

This is just a quote.

[SPOOLIN]

spiking means get a real boost controller.

[B18c1Turboed]

spiking means get a real boost controller.

Or a bigger wastegate!!