6 reasons why god exist...

[PhAtBoYMr2]

Thought this was a really good read...



http://www.everychicowildcat.com/isthere.php
I made the 6 topics all big and shit. saw this in a facebook fliar

Is There a God?
Does God exist? Is there proof of God? The following offers candid, straight-forward reasons to believe in the existence of God...

By Marilyn Adamson
http://www.everychicowildcat.com/img/isthere1.jpg
Download PDF version (http://www.everychicowildcat.com/pdf/isthere.pdf)Just once wouldn't you love for someone to simply show you the evidence for God's existence? No arm-twisting. No statements of, "You just have to believe." Well, here is an attempt to candidly offer some of the reasons which suggest that God exists.
But first consider this. If a person opposes even the possibility of there being a God, then any evidence can be rationalized or explained away. It is like if someone refuses to believe that people have walked on the moon, then no amount of information is going to change their thinking. Photographs of astronauts walking on the moon, interviews with the astronauts, moon rocks...all the evidence would be worthless, because the person has already concluded that people cannot go to the moon.
When it comes to the possibility of God's existence, the Bible says that there are people who have seen sufficient evidence, but they have suppressed the truth about God.1 On the other hand, for those who want to know God if he is there, he says, "You will seek me and find me; when you seek me with all your heart, I will be found by you."2 Before you look at the facts surrounding God's existence, ask yourself, If God does exist, would I want to know him? Here then, are some reasons supporting the existence of God...
1. The complexity of our planet points to a deliberate Designer who not only created our universe, but sustains it today. Many examples showing God's design could be given, possibly with no end. But here are a few:
http://www.everychicowildcat.com/img/isthere2.jpgThe Earth...its size is perfect. The Earth's size and corresponding gravity holds a thin layer of mostly nitrogen and oxygen gases, only extending about 50 miles above the Earth's surface. If Earth were smaller, an atmosphere would be impossible, like the planet Mercury. If Earth were larger, its atmosphere would contain free hydrogen, like Jupiter.3 Earth is the only known planet equipped with an atmosphere of the right mixture of gases to sustain plant, animal and human life.
The Earth is located the right distance from the sun. Consider the temperature swings we encounter, roughly -30 degrees to +120 degrees. If the Earth were any further away from the sun, we would all freeze. Any closer and we would burn up. Even a fractional variance in the Earth's position to the sun would make life on Earth impossible. The Earth remains this perfect distance from the sun while it rotates around the sun at a speed of nearly 67,000 mph. It is also rotating on its axis, allowing the entire surface of the Earth to be properly warmed and cooled every day.
And our moon is the perfect size and distance from the Earth for its gravitational pull. The moon creates important ocean tides and movement so ocean waters do not stagnate, and yet our massive oceans are restrained from spilling over across the continents.4
Water...colorless, odorless and without taste, and yet no living thing can survive without it. Plants, animals and human beings consist mostly of water (about two-thirds of the human body is water). You'll see why the characteristics of water are uniquely suited to life:
It has an unusually high boiling point and freezing point. Water allows us to live in an environment of fluctuating temperature changes, while keeping our bodies a steady 98.6 degrees.
http://www.everychicowildcat.com/img/isthere3.jpg Water is a universal solvent. This property of water means that thousands of chemicals, minerals and nutrients can be carried throughout our bodies and into the smallest blood vessels.5
Water is also chemically neutral. Without affecting the makeup of the substances it carries, water enables food, medicines and minerals to be absorbed and used by the body.
Water has a unique surface tension. Water in plants can therefore flow upward against gravity, bringing life-giving water and nutrients to the top of even the tallest trees.
Water freezes from the top down and floats, so fish can live in the winter.
Ninety-seven percent of the Earth's water is in the oceans. But on our Earth, there is a system designed which removes salt from the water and then distributes that water throughout the globe. Evaporation takes the ocean waters, leaving the salt, and forms clouds which are easily moved by the wind to disperse water over the land, for vegetation, animals and people. It is a system of purification and supply that sustains life on this planet, a system of recycled and reused water.6
2. The human brain's complexity shows a higher intelligence behind it. The human brain simultaneously processes an amazing amount of information. Your brain takes in all the colors and objects you see, the temperature around you, the pressure of your feet against the floor, the sounds around you, the dryness of your mouth, even the texture of your keyboard. Your brain holds and processes all your emotions, thoughts and memories. At the same time your brain keeps track of the ongoing functions of your body like your breathing pattern, eyelid movement, hunger and movement of the muscles in your hands.
http://www.everychicowildcat.com/img/isthere4.jpgThe human brain processes more than a million messages a second.7 Your brain weighs the importance of all this data, filtering out the relatively unimportant. This screening function is what allows you to focus and operate effectively in your world. A brain that deals with more than a million pieces of information every second, while evaluating its importance and allowing you to act on the most pertinent information... did it come about just by chance? Was it merely biological causes, perfectly forming the right tissue, blood flow, neurons, structure? The brain functions differently than other organs. There is an intelligence to it, the ability to reason, to produce feelings, to dream and plan, to take action, and relate to other people. How does one explain the human brain?
3. "Chance" or "natural causes" are insufficient explanations. The alternative to God existing is that all that exists around us came about by natural cause and random chance. If someone is rolling dice, the odds of rolling a pair of sixes is one thing. But the odds of spots appearing on blank dice is something else. What Pasteur attempted to prove centuries ago, science confirms, that life cannot arise from non-life. Where did human, animal, plant life come from?
Also, natural causes are an inadequate explanation for the amount of precise information contained in human DNA. A person who discounts God is left with the conclusion that all of this came about without cause, without design, and is merely good fortune. It is intellectually wanting to observe intricate design and attribute it to luck.
4. To state with certainty that there is no God, a person has to ignore the passion of an enormously vast number of people who are convinced that there is a God. This is not to say that if enough people believe something it is therefore true. Scientists, for example, have discovered new truths about the universe which overruled previous conclusions. But as science has progressed, no scientific discovery has countered the numerical likelihood of an intelligent mind being behind it all. In fact, the more science discovers about human life and the universe, the more complex and precisely designed we realize these to be. Rather than pointing away from God, evidence mounts further toward an intelligent source. But objective evidence is not all.
There is a much larger issue. Throughout history, billions of people in the world have attested to their firm, core convictions about God's existence--arrived at from their subjective, personal relationship with God. Millions today could give detailed account of their experience with God. They would point to answered prayer and specific, amazing ways God has met their needs, and guided them through important personal decisions. They would offer, not only a description of their beliefs, but detailed reports of God's actions in their lives. Many are sure that a loving God exists and has shown himself to be faithful to them. If you are a skeptic, can you say with certainty: "I am absolutely right and they all are wrong about God"?
5. We know God exists because he pursues us. He is constantly initiating and seeking for us to come to him. I was an atheist at one time. And like most atheists, the issue of people believing in God bothered me greatly. What is it about atheists that we would spend so much time, attention, and energy refuting something that we don't believe even exists?! What causes us to do that? When I was an atheist, I attributed my intentions as caring for those poor, disillusioned people...to help them realize their hope was completely ill-founded. To be honest, I also had another motive. As I challenged those who believed in God, I was deeply curious to see if they could convince me otherwise. Part of my quest was to become free from the question of God. If I could conclusively prove to believers that they were wrong, then the issue is off the table, and I would be free to go about my life.
http://www.everychicowildcat.com/img/isthereSUNSET.jpgI didn't realize that the reason the topic of God weighed so heavily on my mind, was because God was pressing the issue. I have come to find out that God wants to be known. He created us with the intention that we would know him. He has surrounded us with evidence of himself and he keeps the question of his existence squarely before us. It was as if I couldn't escape thinking about the possibility of God. In fact, the day I chose to acknowledge God's existence, my prayer began with, "Ok, you win..." It might be that the underlying reason atheists are bothered by people believing in God is because God is actively pursuing them.
I am not the only one who has experienced this. Malcolm Muggeridge, socialist and philosophical author, wrote, "I had a notion that somehow, besides questing, I was being pursued." C.S. Lewis said he remembered, "...night after night, feeling whenever my mind lifted even for a second from my work, the steady, unrelenting approach of Him whom I so earnestly desired not to meet. I gave in, and admitted that God was God, and knelt and prayed: perhaps, that night, the most dejected and reluctant convert in all of England."
Lewis went on to write a book titled, "Surprised by Joy" as a result of knowing God. I too had no expectations other than rightfully admitting God's existence. Yet over the following several months, I became amazed by his love for me.
6. Unlike any other revelation of God, Jesus Christ is the clearest, most specific picture of God pursuing us. Why Jesus? Look throughout the major world religions and you'll find that Buddha, Muhammad, Confucius and Moses all identified themselves as teachers or prophets. None of them ever claimed to be equal to God. Surprisingly, Jesus did. That is what sets Jesus apart from all the others. He said God exists and you're looking at him. Though he talked about his Father in heaven, it was not from the position of separation, but of very close union, unique to all humankind. Jesus said that anyone who had seen Him had seen the Father, anyone who believed in him, believed in the Father.
He said, "I am the light of the world, he who follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."8 He claimed attributes belonging only to God: to be able to forgive people of their sin, free them from habits of sin, give people a more abundant life and give them eternal life in heaven. Unlike other teachers who focused people on their words, Jesus pointed people to himself. He did not say, "follow my words and you will find truth." He said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father but through me."9
What proof did Jesus give for claiming to be divine? He did what people can't do. Jesus performed miracles. He healed people...blind, crippled, deaf, even raised a couple of people from the dead. He had power over objects...created food out of thin air, enough to feed crowds of several thousand people. He performed miracles over nature...walked on top of a lake, commanding a raging storm to stop for some friends. People everywhere followed Jesus, because he constantly met their needs, doing the miraculous. He said if you do not want to believe what I'm telling you, you should at least believe in me based on the miracles you're seeing.10
Jesus Christ showed God to be gentle, loving, aware of our self-centeredness and shortcomings, yet deeply wanting a relationship with us. Jesus revealed that although God views us as sinners, worthy of his punishment, his love for us ruled and God came up with a different plan. God himself took on the form of man and accepted the punishment for our sin on our behalf. Sounds ludicrous? Perhaps, but many loving fathers would gladly trade places with their child in a cancer ward if they could. The Bible says that the reason we would love God is because he first loved us.
Jesus died in our place so we could be forgiven. Of all the religions known to humanity, only through Jesus will you see God reaching toward humanity, providing a way for us to have a relationship with him. Jesus proves a divine heart of love, meeting our needs, drawing us to himself. Because of Jesus' death and resurrection, he offers us a new life today. We can be forgiven, fully accepted by God and genuinely loved by God. He says, "I have loved you with an everlasting love, therefore I have continued my faithfulness to you."11 This is God, in action.
Does God exist? If you want to know, investigate Jesus Christ. We're told that "God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."12
God does not force us to believe in him, though he could. Instead, he has provided sufficient proof of his existence for us to willingly respond to him. The earth's perfect distance from the sun, the unique chemical properties of water, the human brain, DNA, the number of people who attest to knowing God, the gnawing in our hearts and minds to determine if God is there, the willingness for God to be known through Jesus Christ. If you need to know more about Jesus and reasons to believe in him, please see: Beyond Blind (http://www.everychicowildcat.com/beyondblindfaith.php)
Faith.


Cliffs: Start Praying!!! :yes: :goodjob:

[d1esel12]

AMEN :bow:

[Sol-Badguy]

To state with certainty that there is no God, a person has to ignore the passion of an enormously vast number of people who are convinced that there is a God.
PEER PRESSURE!!

[PhAtBoYMr2]

I believe there is a god...I mean most of everything that's happening now has already been proven by the bible... But i guess we'll just have to wait and see....

[Mr_Mischif]

My 2 biggest problems with religion, not just Christianity, but all religions are that they are SO MUCH TROUBLE and the question of good people dying young.

To the first: Every major tragic event short of the Ice age is either because of god or can be attributed to God: Example: 9/11, the Crusades, the Holocaust, what's going on in the Middle East now. It seems to me that for something that is ultimately about peace, there sure is a whole lotta war going on pertaining to it.

To the second: Why do the good people die young? The seemingly good people in the world seem to die because of a bad person's actions, like the soldiers currently fighting in Iraq, yet the bad people continue to live their lives, making money, or striking fear into the hearts of others, such as Osama Bin Laden.

Those really are the only two problem I have with organized religion. That, and their ideals are a lil bit sketchy, and they sometimes force you to do things against religion. I still like the Bible as a book of morals, but nothing else.

[joesblk_teg]

+1 good read

[Decker1.8t]

meh ... :rolleyes:

[NewGen33]

awesome +1

[Jimmy B]

My 2 biggest problems with religion, not just Christianity, but all religions are that they are SO MUCH TROUBLE and the question of good people dying young.

To the first: Every major tragic event short of the Ice age is either because of god or can be attributed to God: Example: 9/11, the Crusades, the Holocaust, what's going on in the Middle East now. It seems to me that for something that is ultimately about peace, there sure is a whole lotta war going on pertaining to it.

To the second: Why do the good people die young? The seemingly good people in the world seem to die because of a bad person's actions, like the soldiers currently fighting in Iraq, yet the bad people continue to live their lives, making money, or striking fear into the hearts of others, such as Osama Bin Laden.

Those really are the only two problem I have with organized religion. That, and their ideals are a lil bit sketchy, and they sometimes force you to do things against religion. I still like the Bible as a book of morals, but nothing else.

God allows everything to how you how good CAN come out of bad.. 3 mos ago, i lost a very good friend of mine, 20, in college, awsome student, and very blessed in what he did.... BUT, it IS Gods will, and somethign good will/has come out of it... sometimes it dosent seem fair, but he allows it for a reason

[_Christian_]

my personal opinion on these arguments:
1. the earths conditions are so perfect for the life forms on it because we have evolved from it and adapted to it over billions of years
2. why does the most complex thing have to be created by a higher being? our brains are too complex so a higher intelligence is behind it. how complex is god's brain? i doubt one would argue that its less complex than a humans...so what intelligence is behind the creation of his brain.
3. if i cant explain it, it is an act of god
4. one must believe what the majority believes or else he/she is wrong
5. belief
6. belief
There is no proof that god exists. there is much scientific evidence of evolution and how we came about to be. creationism to me is just illogical. there is also no proof that he doesnt exist, but it is a lot harder to prove nonexistence than existence. Is there a god? no one KNOWS for sure so there is no correct yes or no answer.:2cents:

[David88vert]

my personal opinion on these arguments:
1. the earths conditions are so perfect for the life forms on it because we have evolved from it and adapted to it over billions of years
2. why does the most complex thing have to be created by a higher being? our brains are too complex so a higher intelligence is behind it. how complex is god's brain? i doubt one would argue that its less complex than a humans...so what intelligence is behind the creation of his brain.
3. if i cant explain it, it is an act of god
4. one must believe what the majority believes or else he/she is wrong
5. belief
6. belief
There is no proof that god exists. there is much scientific evidence of evolution and how we came about to be. creationism to me is just illogical. there is also no proof that he doesnt exist, but it is a lot harder to prove nonexistence than existence. Is there a god? no one KNOWS for sure so there is no correct yes or no answer.:2cents:

1) Mathmatically improbable - approx 10_37 (10 to the 37th power) against it. Imagine having a pile of dimes that cover every square inch of North America - and go all the way to the moon. Now multiple that huge pile of dimes by 1 billion. So you have 1 billion piles of dimes that are EACH the size of NOrth America and are as tall as from here to the moon. Take one dime, mark it, and hide it somewhere in one of those 1 billion piles. Blindfold someone, and have them pick out that one dime at random. The odds of getting that marked dime is 10_37.
2) Read "Darwin's Black Box" - it specifically addresses our DNA strains scientifically, and shows how DNA is, basically in the simpliest terms, and instruction manual. It can give a mutation of "use an 1/8 nut" in place of the correct "use a 1/4 nut; but it cannot have you make a transistor radio when the instructions are for a printer.
3) That's not necessarily true - maybe you just aren't smart enough yet.
4) Anyone can believe what they want - but that does not necessarily make it true or untrue.
5) valid
6) valid
You being here is your proof that a higher intelligence exists. It is mathmatically improbable that this universe could come into existence without help from a greater being. What evidence do you have the evolution exists? Evolution is a sci-fi story (a good one though), that was made up by Darwin's grandfather. They did not have the scientific knowledge of the universe that we have now. How can evolution explain how the universe could come into existence? Scientific laws show that the Big Bang could not have happened. I can explain in more detail if needed.

[greasemunkey]

my personal opinion on these arguments:
1. the earths conditions are so perfect for the life forms on it because we have evolved from it and adapted to it over billions of years
2. why does the most complex thing have to be created by a higher being? our brains are too complex so a higher intelligence is behind it. how complex is god's brain? i doubt one would argue that its less complex than a humans...so what intelligence is behind the creation of his brain.
3. if i cant explain it, it is an act of god
4. one must believe what the majority believes or else he/she is wrong
5. belief
6. belief
There is no proof that god exists. there is much scientific evidence of evolution and how we came about to be. creationism to me is just illogical. there is also no proof that he doesnt exist, but it is a lot harder to prove nonexistence than existence. Is there a god? no one KNOWS for sure so there is no correct yes or no answer.:2cents:
you were created to have david88vert give a good explanation to this question:yes: see there is a God.

[ueyedgr8tness]

I believe there is a god...I mean most of everything that's happening now has already been proven by the bible... But i guess we'll just have to wait and see....

100% RIGHT look were it says in 1 chapter about in the end u want be able to tell the season<and look at it hot 1 day and cold another feb we had 67 dg weather wow how could u not believe in the bible and god:thinking:

[shnil]

Great post. Also I believe the earth isn't billion years old, but about 6000 years old according to the bible. There is a guy named Kent Hovind that has a theory about on the Earth's creation taken from the bible's perspective. Its pretty interesting IMO.

[C22H19N3O4]

...I mean most of everything that's happening now has already been proven by the bible.

REALLY? So it's an irrefutable fact that God exists? What a relief! :lmfao: :lmfao:


...1) Mathmatically improbable - approx 10_37 (10 to the 37th power) against it. Imagine having a pile of dimes that cover every square inch of North America - and go all the way to the moon. Now multiple that huge pile of dimes by 1 billion. So you have 1 billion piles of dimes that are EACH the size of NOrth America and are as tall as from here to the moon. Take one dime, mark it, and hide it somewhere in one of those 1 billion piles. Blindfold someone, and have them pick out that one dime at random. The odds of getting that marked dime is 10_37.
2) Read "Darwin's Black Box" - it specifically addresses our DNA strains scientifically, and shows how DNA is, basically in the simpliest terms, and instruction manual. It can give a mutation of "use an 1/8 nut" in place of the correct "use a 1/4 nut; but it cannot have you make a transistor radio when the instructions are for a printer.
3) That's not necessarily true - maybe you just aren't smart enough yet.
4) Anyone can believe what they want - but that does not necessarily make it true or untrue.
5) valid
6) valid
You being here is your proof that a higher intelligence exists. It is mathmatically improbable that this universe could come into existence without help from a greater being. What evidence do you have the evolution exists? Evolution is a sci-fi story (a good one though), that was made up by Darwin's grandfather. They did not have the scientific knowledge of the universe that we have now. How can evolution explain how the universe could come into existence? Scientific laws show that the Big Bang could not have happened. I can explain in more detail if needed.

You know what cracks me up about your posts? All you do is regurgitate "facts" from creationist websites, but you never list your source. You should give credit where credit is due. Also, you claim science isn't all that accurate, but you use science to refute science. Creation science is NOT science. There is nothing intelligent about ID. Remember you thought the Ica stones were real? :lmfao: :lmfao:

http://www.godtube.com/ (http://www.godtube.com/)

[ahmonrah]

i look at it like this, as far as when it comes to be answered "why do the good die young?"

myself, after being struck from behind by a vehicle doing nearly 80mph, my truck exploding rolling 85 feet thru an intersection, then over a wall made of masonry and concrete that stood more that 5'3" (tasuki_civic seen the wall, i took her to my accident scene), and surviving basically unscathed?

only to have a friend that was ever hardly hurt, injured, sick, never smoke, drink, develop lung cancer and die 2 weeks past his 27th b-day. he didnt even smoke! i'm the smoker......but with him, he was completely honest in what he said to people about how he felt, even if it angered them, but they respected his unerring honesty, was loyal to those he cared about, strived for the better regardles of obstacles, looked at the word "CANT as WONT TRY" and got on people for using the word "CANT",

after his family and i buried him in our hometown of chicago last august, i sat in my hotel room teary and mad asking GOD "what did he do to deserve to die?" "why did he have to go?" and no sooner than i said that, the answer i got was "he earned it."
that's when it seemed like it all hit me
he no longer has to worry about a world in which it's:
"survival of the fittest"
"it's a dog eat dog world"
"every man for himself"
"if you dont want it i'll take it".

no more concerns about what he will have to do to stay employed. whether the chick he loves loves him for him, or what he has or can do for or to her. that dude, and plenty like him, even members of this site (r.i.p. NEGRODOMUS, and the brotha that got shot at the other guys house last month, and others that are no longer able to whore it up on here) it occurred to me that with people like them, others eerily always had no bad things to say about them. you more commonly hear things like:
"they always looked to help someone out"
"always seemed happy"
"was generous"
"didnt lie, even it if hurt, but they werent rude, just honest"
"was true about his feeling and expresed them"

in a world that has become......well for lack of a better world "FUCKED". i dont think i'd leave my good people here to suffer any more than they have to so long as they've earned the right to die, i mean, if i was god. would you leave a lamb in the care of a pack of wolves ?? hailz nah, would you let a molester open a day care ? nope. so if the good people stayed good on this earth, learned the life lessons you provided and passed your tests, why let them stay here?

dont get it twisted y'all, i'm no bible thumper. i dont try to stick myself into any religious group (because, to me religions=factions=friction=separation of all peoples based on cover titles of the book they are faithful too) i'm a dude that's stood at deaths door, wasnt allowed in and seen the things i have to do. and that's listen to the good things in myself learn the lessons i myself have to earn in this life, like we all do, and try to earn my own right.


peace

[David88vert]

REALLY? So it's an irrefutable fact that God exists? What a relief!

You're here aren't you? Care to explain scientifically how the universe could come into existence without a cause/first effect? Give some facts.



You know what cracks me up about your posts? All you do is regurgitate "facts" from creationist websites, but you never list your source. You should give credit where credit is due. Also, you claim science isn't all that accurate, but you use science to refute science. Creation science is NOT science. There is nothing intelligent about ID. Remember you thought the Ica stones were real?

Care to debate DNA? Or universal design? Those facts are not from creationist sites, but from science textbooks. And I am not refuting science at all. I am discussing scientific points, and then looking at what they mean, rather than drawing a conclusion, and trying to unsuccessfully twist observations into my conclusion. And I did give you a book to read in the earlier post. Darwin's Black Box is a book. So the only thing proven unintelligent in this thread has been your post.:goodjob:

[quickdodge®]

David. My main question would be this:

If everyone wants "proof" that evolution is where we came from and all that, I'd like to see "proof" that God is where we came from. People cite instances in the Bible that can show us this proof, but it can also be explained away as people seeing what they want to see when reading. Just as others say they same about evolution.

I personally don't like having "faith" in something I can't see or hear. I have questions that no one, I mean no one, can answer. Main one being, why should I suffer for my whole life while others seem to not. I know my suffering will "lead me to a better place," but why suffer while I wait? I don't know.

And David, know I'm not arguing or trying to disprove or anything your posts or beliefs as I still have some sort of belief in the above, so please don't take it that way. Later, QD.

[Jaimecbr900]

You know what cracks me up about your posts? All you do is regurgitate "facts" from creationist websites, but you never list your source. You should give credit where credit is due.

Wow, hello pot....my name is kettle.

You regurgitate more minutia than anyone on this board in an ill fated attempt to sound remotely intelligent.

How many "books" and "scientific evidence" have YOU quoted in identical previous discussions? I didn't see any footnotes. :rolleyes:

It boils down to one obviously blatant attempt from you to try and "baffle them with bullshit" in all of these "discussions". :rolleyes:



Also, you claim science isn't all that accurate, but you use science to refute science. Creation science is NOT science. There is nothing intelligent about ID.

You just like to pick and choose just what "science" you think is factual and which one is not. How convenient. :rolleyes:

BTW, LOGIC is not always based on Science. It's ironic that non-believers hold out HOPE and FAITH that someday.....in a far, far away place.....we will finally find "scientific" evidence to finally "prove" there is no God, yet you chastise other people for holding out that same HOPE and FAITH that their God is real.

Not a single "scientist" has ever CREATED life. They can duplicate it. They can dissect it. But not a single one has ever CREATED it. Why???? Because they CAN'T. Yet that same communal mindset is the one that tries to convince people that single celled organisms devoid of any brain matter somehow figured out HOW to CREATE multi-cell and infinitely more complex LIFE. Why is that? So, let's review shall we?:

YOUR infinitely wise and totally correct "science" thinks that non-existent matter crashed into each other somewhere out in outer space and with the Lucky Charms guy magically created the Universe a billion years ago, YET just a relatively short 400 yrs ago that "scientific" thinking thought the Earth was FLAT???? :thinking:

The only EVOLUTION non-believers need to worship is the one fact that THEY need to EVOLVE and understand that they don't know anywhere near as much as they think they do. Remember, 400 yrs ago the Earth was flat to "scientists" of the day. 400 yrs from now, if yall are still around, I'm sure you'll come up with some other truly "scientific" breakthrough...... :rolleyes:

[quickdodge®]

It's ironic that non-believers hold out HOPE and FAITH that someday.....in a far, far away place.....we will finally find "scientific" evidence to finally "prove" there is no God, yet you chastise other people for holding out that same HOPE and FAITH that their God is real.

As a sort of non believer, I would love to see proof that there is or is not a God. I think it would be awesome for everyone to know, matter-of-fact whether or not a higher power really exists. And I know that this probably wasn't directed in my general direction, but my cuts on religion are only in jest. I won't ridicule someone for their beliefs. Later, QD.

[Jaimecbr900]

As a sort of non believer, I would love to see proof that there is or is not a God. I think it would be awesome for everyone to know, matter-of-fact whether or not a higher power really exists. And I know that this probably wasn't directed in my general direction, but my cuts on religion are only in jest. I won't ridicule someone for their beliefs. Later, QD.

You don't chastise anyone on their beliefs. Viagra boy does.

I'm not sure, but I will take a stab at it.

I think that part of the reason why God doesn't simply just part the heavens and says "howdy do" may be because if you did not come to the decision that he existed on your own then how would it be fair that you reap all the same rewards as someone who didn't need that revelation to believe. Follow?

Look at it like this: Would you prefer to have a friend that is a friend by choice or a friend that someone PAYS to be your "friend"? Same idea I think. Kinda like when you have to remind someone that today is your birthday. How's their sudden, "oops, Happy Birthday." compare to someone who sought you out to TELL you "happy birthday"? Kinda makes a difference, doesn't it?

[quickdodge®]

I think that part of the reason why God doesn't simply just part the heavens and says "howdy do" may be because if you did not come to the decision that he existed on your own then how would it be fair that you reap all the same rewards as someone who didn't need that revelation to believe. Follow?

Look at it like this: Would you prefer to have a friend that is a friend by choice or a friend that someone PAYS to be your "friend"? Same idea I think. Kinda like when you have to remind someone that today is your birthday. How's their sudden, "oops, Happy Birthday." compare to someone who sought you out to TELL you "happy birthday"? Kinda makes a difference, doesn't it?

I got that 100% before your analogy. Remember now, I'm smart. Lolol. I've never heard it put that way. The more I think of your answer, the more it makes sense. But what about the people that do have faith? He should show/reveal himself to them to let them know that their faith is not misplaced or in vain. Later, QD.

[Jaimecbr900]

I got that 100% before your analogy. Remember now, I'm smart. Lolol.

I'm bad about over documenting my posts...... :D


I've never heard it put that way. The more I think of your answer, the more it makes sense. But what about the people that do have faith? He should show/reveal himself to them to let them know that their faith is not misplaced or in vain. Later, QD.

Well, I guess it's the same reason that he doesn't just "appear" to anyone. I believe w/o him appearing before me, so I don't need him to materialize to continue to believe. Sort of the same way we do "good" things w/o anyone asking us to. We just do them. We get some kind of feeling or thought and just act upon that accordingly. Similar thing to believing in God. You read, you go to church, you listen to your parents/family, you ask questions, you do research, and you use logic. Eventually you will find an answer that tilts the scales enough for you to choose one side of the fence over the other. Sometimes it hits you like a bolt of lightning, while others may be more subdued. It's a very individualistic thing. Some very brilliant and very nice people are self-proclaimed Atheists, and that is totally their perrogative. I feel everyone HAS to make that choice on their own. Eventually, everyone does. Not everyone will agree with you on it, but you will have to eventually make a decision one way or another. Some get there quicker than others, but it doesn't matter as long as you have time......alas there's the rub.... ;)

[TheChosenOne]

Atheist!!! :super:


Riddle me this...

(keep in mind, i'm just throwing this one up in the air, and i'm really looking for an answer)

If Adam and Eve were the only two people in the world whom were created by the almighty GOD himself, then how did they procreate? Im not looking for a explaination on how they did it physically, but weren't they technically kin. I mean, God created Adam and then he created Eve form Adam's rib...

A more important question is would it be considered incest if they had offspring??? If not in the case of Adam and Eve, what about their children??? it says in the bible that EVERYONE is a decendent of Adam and Eve, so somewhere along the line someone must have had sex with thier sister, right??? :thinking:

Just a little question for the believers.......;).........:D

[Jaimecbr900]

Atheist!!! :super:


Riddle me this...

(keep in mind, i'm just throwing this one up in the air, and i'm really looking for an answer)

If Adam and Eve were the only two people in the world whom were created by the almighty GOD himself, then how did they procreate? Im not looking for a explaination on how they did it physically, but weren't they technically kin. I mean, God created Adam and then he created Eve form Adam's rib...

A more important question is would it be considered incest if they had offspring??? If not in the case of Adam and Eve, what about their children??? it says in the bible that EVERYONE is a decendent of Adam and Eve, so somewhere along the line someone must have had sex with thier sister, right??? :thinking:

Just a little question for the believers.......;).........:D

Are you asking how it's possible or are you questioning it's morality?

[quickdodge®]

Are you asking how it's possible or are you questioning it's morality?

I believe the morality. Later, QD.

[_Christian_]

Atheist!!! :super:


Riddle me this...

(keep in mind, i'm just throwing this one up in the air, and i'm really looking for an answer)

If Adam and Eve were the only two people in the world whom were created by the almighty GOD himself, then how did they procreate? Im not looking for a explaination on how they did it physically, but weren't they technically kin. I mean, God created Adam and then he created Eve form Adam's rib...

A more important question is would it be considered incest if they had offspring??? If not in the case of Adam and Eve, what about their children??? it says in the bible that EVERYONE is a decendent of Adam and Eve, so somewhere along the line someone must have had sex with thier sister, right??? :thinking:

Just a little question for the believers.......;).........:D

Eve got freaky with cane and able:idb:...that is if youbelieve the bible

[Lucky DAWG]

My 2 biggest problems with religion, not just Christianity, but all religions are that they are SO MUCH TROUBLE and the question of good people dying young.

To the first: Every major tragic event short of the Ice age is either because of god or can be attributed to God: Example: 9/11, the Crusades, the Holocaust, what's going on in the Middle East now. It seems to me that for something that is ultimately about peace, there sure is a whole lotta war going on pertaining to it.

To the second: Why do the good people die young? The seemingly good people in the world seem to die because of a bad person's actions, like the soldiers currently fighting in Iraq, yet the bad people continue to live their lives, making money, or striking fear into the hearts of others, such as Osama Bin Laden.

Those really are the only two problem I have with organized religion. That, and their ideals are a lil bit sketchy, and they sometimes force you to do things against religion. I still like the Bible as a book of morals, but nothing else.


that has no bearing on anything.

those bad things are happening because of human beings, not because of faith in god, the multitude of religions is our own fault and is a good idea that has been messed with.

wars over religion is not a problem attributed to the existence of a God, it is a problem attributed to human pride that what they believe in is correct

[ShooterMcGavin]

lirl @ religious propaganda......i think i'm gonna go create a thread about communism and why it's great :lmao:

[Lucky DAWG]

lirl @ religious propaganda......i think i'm gonna go create a thread about communism and why it's great :lmao:

awesome

me, Eisenhower, and McCarthy will be ready to kick your ass :goodjob:

[David88vert]

David. My main question would be this:

If everyone wants "proof" that evolution is where we came from and all that, I'd like to see "proof" that God is where we came from. People cite instances in the Bible that can show us this proof, but it can also be explained away as people seeing what they want to see when reading. Just as others say they same about evolution.

I personally don't like having "faith" in something I can't see or hear. I have questions that no one, I mean no one, can answer. Main one being, why should I suffer for my whole life while others seem to not. I know my suffering will "lead me to a better place," but why suffer while I wait? I don't know.

And David, know I'm not arguing or trying to disprove or anything your posts or beliefs as I still have some sort of belief in the above, so please don't take it that way. Later, QD.

If you believe in God or evolution, it doesn't matter. Either takes faith. The only difference is that evolution can be disproven rather easily - but that does not mean that you cannot believe it on faith, which is completely fine.

And your posts are always fine. This is just a discussion, and will probably not change how people believe - but they should know why they believe what they do, and be able to make a reasonable arguement for it. :goodjob:

[sdiddy]

A more important question is would it be considered incest if they had offspring??? If not in the case of Adam and Eve, what about their children??? it says in the bible that EVERYONE is a decendent of Adam and Eve, so somewhere along the line someone must have had sex with thier sister, right??? :thinking:

yes.

There was no law against incest in early times. After all, what other choice did they have?

[BKgen®]

i couldn't agree more.

:goodjob: plus one.

[C22H19N3O4]

You don't chastise anyone on their beliefs. Viagra boy does.




I'm only critical of your religious posts b/c they are comical. If you don't like what I post then don't read it. I encourage everyone to respond to my topics, EVEN someone like you. If you can dish it out then you SHOULD be able to take it.

You have yet to answer a question I posed to you last year. It's not verbatim but close enough: if you and every Christian zealot deem science as inaccurate, why do you reap the rewards of it everyday? I know it's an elementary question, but it serves my purpose. I'm willing to bet that if a family member were to become ill you wouldn't call your priest first. Im pretty sure you'd be headed to the ER. Why not just pray about it? Pray and hope that your loved one will pull through and forget about all the advances in medicine. Oddly enough, religious nuts only seem to call the clergy when the patient is near death's door. People like you take comfort in the bosom of science when you need it most, but when it doesn't conform to your propaganda it's the red headed stepchild. Now, the statement is not just meant for Jaime, but for every Christian nut that assumes science is inherently evil.


The only difference is that evolution can be disproven rather easily - but that does not mean that you cannot believe it on faith, which is completely fine.
WOW! You can really disprove evolution through probability/statistics? I'll alert the media, because this is breaking news. Creation scientists will not even make that claim. So your decades in evolutionary biology helped you come to this conclusion? We should just dismiss the last 150 years of research, b/c you know that irreducible complexity lends itself to the fact that evolution is SOOO complex that the probability of evolution having occurred is almost zero? Absolutely amazing! Where did you do your research? I hope you're not of one those guys that reads creationist websites and pretends to know something about science. Im pretty sure you've taken basic science courses and understand common biological terminology?

Now, you mentioned Darwin's Black Box. Michael Behe wrote this book about 10 years ago, he's Roman Catholic, and has NEVER had a peer reviewed article published. So he is not biased at all and claims his ideology does not force him to believe in a Designer? He's been ripped apart for the last 10 years since his book was pusblished. Remember the Dover trial in 2005? Read about it here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitzmiller_v._Dover_Area_School_District


Just some comments by the judge on Behe's testimony:
The judge in his final ruling relied heavily upon Behe's testimony for the defense, citing:

-"Consider, to illustrate, that Professor Behe remarkably and unmistakably claims that the plausibility of the argument for ID depends upon the extent to which one believes in the existence of God.
-'As no evidence in the record indicates that any other scientific proposition's validity rests on belief in God, nor is the Court aware of any such scientific propositions, Professor Behe's assertion constitutes substantial evidence that in his view, as is commensurate with other prominent ID leaders, ID is a religious and not a scientific proposition.
-"First, defense expert Professor Fuller agreed that ID aspires to "change the ground rules" of science and lead defense expert Professor Behe admitted that his broadened definition of science, which encompasses ID, would also embrace astrology. Moreover, defense expert Professor Minnich acknowledged that for ID to be considered science, the ground rules of science have to be broadened to allow consideration of supernatural forces.
-"What is more, defense experts concede that ID is not a theory as that term is defined by the NAS and admit that ID is at best "fringe science" which has achieved no acceptance in the scientific community.
-"We therefore find that Professor Behe's claim for irreducible complexity has been refuted in peer-reviewed research papers and has been rejected by the scientific community at large.
-"ID proponents primarily argue for design through negative arguments against evolution, as illustrated by Professor Behe’s argument that “irreducibly complex” systems cannot be produced through Darwinian, or any natural, mechanisms. However, … arguments against evolution are not arguments for design. Expert testimony revealed that just because scientists cannot explain today how biological systems evolved does not mean that they cannot, and will not, be able to explain them tomorrow. As Dr. Padian aptly noted, “absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.”… Irreducible complexity is a negative argument against evolution, not proof of design, a point conceded by defense expert Professor Minnich.
-"Professor Behe’s concept of irreducible complexity depends on ignoring ways in which evolution is known to occur. Although Professor Behe is adamant in his definition of irreducible complexity when he says a precursor “missing a part is by definition nonfunctional,” what he obviously means is that it will not function in the same way the system functions when all the parts are present. For example in the case of the bacterial flagellum, removal of a part may prevent it from acting as a rotary motor. However, Professor Behe excludes, by definition, the possibility that a precursor to the bacterial flagellum functioned not as a rotary motor, but in some other way, for example as a secretory system.
-"Professor Behe has applied the concept of irreducible complexity to only a few select systems: (1) the bacterial flagellum; (2) the blood-clotting cascade; and (3) the immune system. Contrary to Professor Behe’s assertions with respect to these few biochemical systems among the myriad existing in nature, however, Dr. Miller presented evidence, based upon peer-reviewed studies, that they are not in fact irreducibly complex.
-"...proponents assert that they refuse to propose hypotheses on the designer’s identity, do not propose a mechanism, and the designer, he/she/it/they, has never been seen. … Professor Behe’s only response to these seemingly insurmountable points of disanalogy was that the inference still works in science fiction movies.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Behe
It was easy to debunk Behe b/c the science community and his university do not openly accept his views.

We will discuss the use of probability theory tomorrow.

David, most people truly interested in evolution and/or creationism do not post topics that are several years old. They have moved on to more recent issues and do not take to time to rehash the same old topics. This is how I know you just stumbled upon this issue. If you really want to get down and dirty join up at http://www.scienceforums.net/ or http://www.ethicalatheist.com/forum/index.php. You want a "rational" debate? Well come on down! I still find it funny that you're brave enough to claim that you can disprove evolution. :lmfao:

[C22H19N3O4]

I personally don't like having "faith" in something I can't see or hear. I have questions that no one, I mean no one, can answer. Main one being, why should I suffer for my whole life while others seem to not. I know my suffering will "lead me to a better place," but why suffer while I wait? I don't know.


I don't know if you're an avid reader, but I'm going to recommend a book by Philip Yancey (http://www.amazon.com/Whats-So-Amazing-About-Grace/dp/0310213274/ref=sr_11_1/103-5363403-8449466?ie=UTF8&qid=1175597030&sr=11-1). It might help to shed some light. I rarely recommend books of this nature. :screwy:

[Evil Goat]

My 2 biggest problems with religion, not just Christianity, but all religions are that they are SO MUCH TROUBLE and the question of good people dying young.

To the first: Every major tragic event short of the Ice age is either because of god or can be attributed to God: Example: 9/11, the Crusades, the Holocaust, what's going on in the Middle East now. It seems to me that for something that is ultimately about peace, there sure is a whole lotta war going on pertaining to it.

To the second: Why do the good people die young? The seemingly good people in the world seem to die because of a bad person's actions, like the soldiers currently fighting in Iraq, yet the bad people continue to live their lives, making money, or striking fear into the hearts of others, such as Osama Bin Laden.

Those really are the only two problem I have with organized religion. That, and their ideals are a lil bit sketchy, and they sometimes force you to do things against religion. I still like the Bible as a book of morals, but nothing else.



one thing youve got to realize though is that god doesnt make our decisions for us, we make them ourselves, he knows what the decisions are going to be before they are ever made, but yet in still it is our choice, i believe or destiny is written, but the decisions i make on a daily basis will ultimatley lead me to that final destiny.....

my personal beliefs are that god will show you things if you are in tuned with god, i once asked a preacher was he afraid of death, and his answer was simple, yet makes me think til this day, he said "i am not afraid of death, because god has showed me things that will come to pass in my life that have not happened yet"

i have a personal belief in god, i believe jesus was the savior, and i believe in the ultimate return to claim his followers.

[Jaimecbr900]

I'm only critical of your religious posts b/c they are comical.

Glad you like them.


If you don't like what I post then don't read it.

Come up with something more original than that tired ass response.

I don't like what you post because you NEVER give anything else besides what little resides between your ears any validity, opportunity, or chance. You are by far the absolute most biased and closed minded individual on this entire site. Even totally opposing views have had very constructive albeit argumentative debates here, that is until you start to post. What happens then is that it turns debates into cluster fucks because you love to insert personal conjecture and biased propaganda that you google while you get your rocks off getting on people's nerves on purpose.

Can I be any more clear for you? :rolleyes:



I encourage everyone to respond to my topics, EVEN someone like you. If you can dish it out then you SHOULD be able to take it.

Name one time I've never "took" what you're tried to shovel around?? Name it.


You have yet to answer a question I posed to you last year. It's not verbatim but close enough: if you and every Christian zealot deem science as inaccurate, why do you reap the rewards of it everyday?

For the exact same reason you're allowed to breathe the AIR that GOD gave you to breathe. ;)

In your world, we take an aspirin for a headache we suddenly become defacto approvers of the big band theory. It figures, but you're so far off the mark it's not even worth the gum off the bottom of your school desk.

Just because someone uses scientific improvements doesn't automatically mean that they endorce science's idea of evolution. That makes no sense whatsoever. So does that mean that if you breathe the air that I believe wholeheartedly GOD made and provides for you that you suddenly believe God exists??? No, right? Then why would me taking advantage of scientific improvements make me any more an endorcer of the big bang theory? How do you tie both together?



I know it's an elementary question, but it serves my purpose. I'm willing to bet that if a family member were to become ill you wouldn't call your priest first. Im pretty sure you'd be headed to the ER. Why not just pray about it? Pray and hope that your loved one will pull through and forget about all the advances in medicine.

I've answered it before and I answered it again above. You just don't like the answer.

Just because I would look to science to mend a broken BODY does not have anything to do with that person's or his/her family's FAITH in God. Nothing at all. So in your thought process, if I go and get my broken arm casted up at the ER it automatically means that I don't believe in God??? How's that work again? I may pray for someone's speedy recovery. I may pray for someone's family to stay strong during a hard time in their life. That doesn't mean that I don't hope and also pray that the doctors and nurses who try and mend them also are successful. So your point is totally invalid and makes no sense. I see where you're going, but you just don't know how to get there.

I'll tell you what....I'll use the same logic right back on you. How come you rely so heavily on your tried and true "science", yet your "science" can't keep us from dying???? If it's sooooo perfectly right as you say it is and base your whole life on, why do people STILL die ON meds and while under Dr's care??? Furthermore, why do people die each and every day eventhough they were given a clean bill of health by DR's? One more since I'm on a roll.....why do people die every day while on PRESCRIBED MEDICINES that someone somewhere swore would prolong their life??? Answer those with science.



Oddly enough, religious nuts only seem to call the clergy when the patient is near death's door. People like you take comfort in the bosom of science when you need it most, but when it doesn't conform to your propaganda it's the red headed stepchild.

See, you are so twisted in trying to refute everything I say that you can't see the forest for the trees.

I'm not arguing against Science. I'm arguing against people that don't use common sense to figure out that there has to be something far greater than US that created, orchestrated, and planned ALL of us being here right now. Science has tried to COPY what has been CREATED before. It has only succeeded in COPYING what is already there. It has NEVER CREATED anything that comes remotely close to what real life creates every day. So for someone to sit there and pompously proclaim that "Science" is the root of humanity and thereby "Science" is how everything around us including humans was created doesn't make any sense to me. If that was so, how come "Science" can't create anything? You are depending your whole life upon something that continuously evolves into something else over time. The belief of God has been basically the same for millenia, yet you want to argue against it using theories that are continuously changing rationale??? Makes no sense to me.



Now, the statement is not just meant for Jaime, but for every Christian nut that assumes science is inherently evil.

As I said above, I don't know where you are getting that I think Science is evil. I don't. I think it is just a tool like every other tool we use to make our life here as comfortable as possible. Nothing at all wrong with it. The only problem I have is when people use "science" as their ONLY belief system, yet see NO flaws with it at all. THAT is my problem with you, NOT science. Science can prove lots of things. It has yet to disprove God though. Why is that? Because it can't. Science of today is obsolete tommorow by yet another "scientific" discovery that today we didn't think existed or was possible. How come "scientist" fall on their ass backwards saying something is dead on balls accurate today, yet tommorow come in to announce a great breakthrough that makes what was accurate yesterday not so accurate today???? This is the theory you want to base your life's belief system on? Fickle and often proving itself wrong.....that is what you base your life's beliefs on??? Good for you.

You may mock my belief system. You may not agree with it. You're also a fool if you think that there isn't another higher power that has orchestrated all of this, including mine and your bickering debates. You hang your hat on the nail of an aging mortar and pestle and I'll just hang mine on the nails of the cross. You choose what you want to believe in. That is exactly what God intended for each and every one of us.....for us to CHOOSE him or not. Each side has its rewards and punishments. Roll the dice the way YOU see fit.


Just some comments by the judge on Behe's testimony:

David's a big boy and he can respond to your comments himself, but I will say this:

A Judge? You're using a court ruling to back up your evolution belief??? :lmfao:

Maybe I'll post up what my mechanic thinks.....maybe I'll quote my next door neighbor.....wait, I know.....I'll quote a bum off the corner who is preaching to me to get me to give him money..... :lmfao:

As if a JUDGE is some kind of authority on evolution or science or even religion. :rolleyes:

Quote a scientist or a priest, but a judge???? :thinking:

Anyway, I'll let David respond to your reply, but I just had to comment. Carry on. :goodjob:

[yudalicious]

If a person opposes even the possibility of there being a God, then any evidence can be rationalized or explained away. It is like if someone refuses to believe that people have walked on the moon, then no amount of information is going to change their thinking.

These reasons are nothing groundbreaking, just recycled stuff. To this I say -If a person wholeheartedly believes the existence of a higher power, then any evidence can be rationalized or explained that way. No amount of information is going to change their thinking. Matter of fact, pretty much every argument that's been presented in this thread is recycled form somewhere else, nothing new, nothing grand.

The problem with being Christian is that not only do you have to argue about the existence of God with us nonbelievers, you also have to argue about whose God is the real God with the Muslims, Buddhists, Jews, etc., lol.

[Hulud]

dont want to interject but there are a few things that you said jaime that i would not have expected from you


I'll tell you what....I'll use the same logic right back on you. How come you rely so heavily on your tried and true "science", yet your "science" can't keep us from dying???? If it's sooooo perfectly right as you say it is and base your whole life on, why do people STILL die ON meds and while under Dr's care??? Furthermore, why do people die each and every day eventhough they were given a clean bill of health by DR's? One more since I'm on a roll.....why do people die every day while on PRESCRIBED MEDICINES that someone somewhere swore would prolong their life??? Answer those with science.
that right there is a stupid, stupid question. i guess i expected you not to make such ignorant statements, but o well. you sit there and ask that, yet you dont ask why god cant save peoples lives :screwy: .



I'm not arguing against Science. I'm arguing against people that don't use common sense to figure out that there has to be something far greater than US that created, orchestrated, and planned ALL of us being here right now. Science has tried to COPY what has been CREATED before. It has only succeeded in COPYING what is already there. It has NEVER CREATED anything that comes remotely close to what real life creates every day. So for someone to sit there and pompously proclaim that "Science" is the root of humanity and thereby "Science" is how everything around us including humans was created doesn't make any sense to me. If that was so, how come "Science" can't create anything? You are depending your whole life upon something that continuously evolves into something else over time. The belief of God has been basically the same for millenia, yet you want to argue against it using theories that are continuously changing rationale??? Makes no sense to me.

So people dont have any common sense if they dont believe in your god? That just goes to show why organized religion is a joke. How are you going to sit there and say that someone claiming science is the root of life doesnt make sense to you, yet you WHOLEHEARTEDLY believe there is this god out there that put it all there? I mean if you didnt EVER go to church or ever hear the concept of a god you wouldnt even think there was a god. Someone planted that idea in your head at whatever age and you came to believe it, just as Cialis does with science. Until you both some riding bandwagons you wont see anyother possible way but your own. :2cents:

So evolution is bad? Believing in something that ACTUALLY corrects its mistakes is a bad thing?

[Jaimecbr900]

dont want to interject but there are a few things that you said jaime that i would not have expected from you

Sorry to dissapoint.



that right there is a stupid, stupid question. i guess i expected you not to make such ignorant statements, but o well. you sit there and ask that, yet you dont ask why god cant save peoples lives :screwy: .

#1. It is an analogy, so it is not meant to make factual sense just rhetorical.
#2. It is not ignorant to ask someone that bases his whole life around "science" and how much man is the top of the evolutionary chain due to it's high brain capacity why if "man" and his science is so dead on accurate to have solved life's one and only riddle yet it can't keep us from dying. In other words, if science is so evolutionized that it has proven the lack of existance of a higher being why is it that it still can't keep us from dying? God has a plan for that very riddle. Always has. Always was the same. Science in turn has changed it's answer 50 gazillion times. THAT was my point.



So people dont have any common sense if they dont believe in your god? That just goes to show why organized religion is a joke.

See, now I expected far more from YOU then.

I never said anyone that doesn't believe the same things I do have no common sense. Where did I say that? I said that not believing in a HIGHER POWER doesn't make sense to me and outlined the reasons why.

People will believe what they want to believe. Look at IA as an example. There are a lot of people that don't believe in God. That's fine. So when I say that it makes no common sense to not believe I am saying that I don't see the logic in thinking WE, humans, are all knowing and suddenly have solved the question of the existance of God, period. Be it Allah, Buddah, Jesus, or Jehovah. The point is that TO ME it is utterly ridiculous to think that I, let alone half the ying yangs on IA that still barely can tie their own shoes, have enough brain matter capacity to quantifiably prove the existance of God beyond any doubt. This is where ALL of us have to choose that proverbial fork in the road. Some choose the right, some choose the left. That is what the whole purpose in life really is, choosing the right path according to what YOU believe. If you believe that there is no God, then you choose one side of the road over the other. That's it. This is why I said what I said. Clear now? ;)



How are you going to sit there and say that someone claiming science is the root of life doesnt make sense to you,

Because it doesn't.




yet you WHOLEHEARTEDLY believe there is this god out there that put it all there?

Because THAT is what makes sense to ME. ;)



I mean if you didnt EVER go to church or ever hear the concept of a god you wouldnt even think there was a god. Someone planted that idea in your head at whatever age and you came to believe it, just as Cialis does with science.

Well, funny you use that example.

I have read many stories about missionaries that have traveled and lived in some of the most remote areas of the globe. Like you said, when they get there people have lots of questions about lots of things. When the missionaries relay their Biblical or religious ideas, often times these people have that Acme-light bulb going off over your head- epiphany. It suddenly all clicks and makes sense when before they couldn't make heads or tails about it.

I would imagine that happens in reverse too when someone decides to believe Science and Evolution over Creationism. But often times when we are researching for ourselves we find the answer that makes SENSE to US and then just call that OUR "fact" storing it up there in some filing cabinet in our heads. So just because you've not heard about Christianity doesn't necessarily mean you don't believe in a higher being, it may just be you haven't realized where to go look up the answer at. ;)



Until you both some riding bandwagons you wont see anyother possible way but your own. :2cents:

I think you left something out of that sentence, but I agree with you.


So evolution is bad? Believing in something that ACTUALLY corrects its mistakes is a bad thing?

Not necessarily, just the raw idea of everything on earth began from some single celled organism that was in some cespool of nothingness suddenly becoming a life. That part makes no sense.

Now, the fact that things adapt to their new environments in order to survive, that I believe. There can still be a master plan. There can still be a God overseeing things. There can still be a purpose to everything. That is strictly faith, and I think that's what you guys have problems with me on. :goodjob:

[Hulud]

Sorry to dissapoint.
you missed what i meant to say. i think i worded it wrong.

what i meant was i expected you to be better than that. better than the stupid comments that most people throw around.


Not necessarily, just the raw idea of everything on earth began from some single celled organism that was in some cespool of nothingness suddenly becoming a life. That part makes no sense.
and thats why you believe in god, because something that doesnt make sense to you now, you say god did it.


Now, the fact that things adapt to their new environments in order to survive, that I believe. There can still be a master plan. There can still be a God overseeing things. There can still be a purpose to everything. That is strictly faith, and I think that's what you guys have problems with me on. :goodjob:
thats the difference you believe there is a meaning to life, i dont

[Clegger]

Wow Religion is so stupid everybody thinks there religion is the RIGHT one or the BEST one. (look at whats going on in the middle east)

And for anybody that believes that the earth is only 6000 years old... LMFAO!!!!! that means that dinosaurs and the ice age were here and gone only a few thousand years ago? And what about carbon dating?

When I see it I'll believe it. If there is some magical miracle on a global scale or Jesus come back. Then sign me up. Until then I think its all bullshit

All Religions

[Tracer]

Well most people in this world dont realize that Christianity is not a RELIGION. Its a lifestyle (to live Christ like). Most people dont understand that. I think most people that dont believe is cause of the Unknown.

But make some points for people that dont believe...you may say "How can I believe in something I can not see?" Well do you believe in the wind or the air you breathe? You may not see it but you see the effects they have in life. Sometimes the simple things in life can explain or lead us to understand there is a GOD.

Well many people today claim they are agnostic. Which means: without knowledge or unknown. There's the term UNKNOWN again. Well evolution is what most of them believe. Read this bit of info. how evolution is false: http://www.biblelife.org/evolution.htm

I think most people dont want to believe in a GOD is cause they have to answer for how they lived their life. Its easier to just live you life, do want you want, and not care about anyone else but yourself. That's why people want to turn away from the unknown. Its easier to just live like you want and not answer for the negative things you do. Plus its hard to live like a Christian. Yeah Christians are no near perfect. We all fall short of God's grace but by faith in HIM we are saved.

But in my life I do not look up to any man or hold some religious leader up. I do not follow anyone but the life that Jesus lead and explained how for us to live. Only God can judge you...

that's my 2 cents...

[TheSnail]

Wow Religion is so stupid everybody thinks there religion is the RIGHT one or the BEST one. (look at whats going on in the middle east)

And for anybody that believes that the earth is only 6000 years old... LMFAO!!!!! that means that dinosaurs and the ice age were here and gone only a few thousand years ago? And what about carbon dating?

When I see it I'll believe it. If there is some magical miracle on a global scale or Jesus come back. Then sign me up. Until then I think its all bullshit

All Religions




^^^ What he said. +1

[yudalicious]

...Read this bit of info. how evolution is false: http://www.biblelife.org/evolution.htm...

+1 for objective, unbiased, 3rd party info! now I KNOW for sure that I've been a fool all my life!

[xlilvi3tx]

man im sorry to say but i dun believe all dat god bullshiet fuk god

[RandomGuy]

you guys dont get it
god is singularity



NASA's Moon Landing was
far less of an achievement
than Time Cube discovery,
for I have Cubed the Earth,
with 4 simultaneous corner
days in 1 rotation of Earth.
(singularity belief scientist can't comprehend T.O.E.)

God SINGULARITY and the
academic taught singularity
constitute great evils in the
Cubic World of Opposites -
Opposites hemispheres and
Opposite sexes of humanity.
The Universe is composed
of Opposites - existing only
as Opposites - with a zero
value existence - cancelling
to nothing as a singularity.

I think Cubic, therefore I
rise above the singularity
mentality human and the
false gods they worship -
discovering a Universe of
Opposites their education
will never allow them to
know. Evil of believing
is not measuring and the
result of not measuring -
is never knowing Truth,
ineffable by man or god.

Gene Ray, Cubic and Wise Above Gods
************************************************** *****

Cubicism, Not group theory.
If ignorant of the almighty
Time Cube Creation Truth,
you deserve to be killed.
Killing you is not immoral -
but justified to save life on
Earth for future generations.
Academic taught singularity
within universe of opposites,
has lobotomized your mind.
You are Enslaved by Word -
no whip or shackle required.
You do not have the freedom
to discuss/debate Time Cube.
Academia destroys your mind
by suppressing opposite view.
God equals self masturbation
of mind - for opposites create.
You are educated singularities.
YOU DESERVE DEATH -
FOR SINGULARITY EVIL
in the Universe of Opposites.
No God Can Make Himself
as singularity is death, not life.
Planets nor human are entities
as they equal Zero Opposites.
You are educated singularity
stupid and evil, unfit for life
in the Universe of Opposites.

[Big J]

Hmmmm........

brilliant design. It's a matter of chance. In anything that is infinite, everything must occure once, if it occures once, it must occure again. So, based on that mathmetical theory of infinity, there is life on other planets, and that give me hope that some where there is intelligent life.

________ is to adults, as Santa Clause is to childern.

A) beer
B) money
C) Jesus
D)water

[THEONE]

god made the earth in how many days? abraham lived to be how many years old? beleive what you wish.remeber the holy bible was translated and interpeted many many times.
1 day could have been 1000 years or 1,000,000 years . the thing is you should not question god,just have faith. im not saying goto church and become a fanatic.and i dont think he is either.
i think he gave us this life and the bible as an example of what we can and can not do or try not to do. once you know these things you live your life.when you feel you need guidance goto church see a priest or preacher or just pray.

and to me being saved is actually accepting him and doing your best to live right and do right to others. there are many rituals related to this.the end of the world is when you die,this will be judgement day.and for the living look to revalations and dont take it literally. but hey this is just my take on the subject. the holy spirit is real god is real christ is real after all they are one in the same.

[Big J]

you may say "How can I believe in something I can not see?" Well do you believe in the wind or the air you breathe? You may not see it but you see the effects they have in life.

No, I can't see it but it can be understood because of concepts explained by science. I know "air" is 21% oxygen, 78% nitrogen and 1% other stuff. I know the effect of air on life becaues I understand the crebs cycle and aerobic metabolism.

Now you start to talk about "God", and there are really a whole bunch of them if your not too closed minded to belive yours is the only one. Gods come and go. Noone belives in the Roman and Greek gods anymore, the "gods" of the Indians died when they were killed by "the childern of God" in the name of "God" in the first part of Americian history. When aragance kills the folowers of todays "Gods", people will invent some new ones, but air will still be air.

[2micro4u]

Well said bro. :D
"As far as Gods my belief there is only one true GOD. From my believe Jesus is the way. Im not perfect nor a saint either but daily I continue to strive to improve on my spituality and life. :goodjob:

[Big J]

Jesus vs. Santa Clause

Jesus: be good and you'll live on forever in my fathers kingdom

Santa Clause: be good and I'll squeeze my fat ass down your chimney and give you gifts

Jesus: I'm the son of God

Santa: I live on the North Pole

Jesus: I came back to life

Santa: I have flying Reindeer

Jesus: I didn't have sexual relations with that woman (Mary Magdolin, which by the way the catholic church admitted to fabricating the whole Ms. Magdoiln is a whore thing, one of just a few things they've "changed")

Santa: Lie told to childern by parents

Jusus: ................................................

Although there is historical evidence supporting a "Santa Clause" as being a real person. who did real things, look at what has become of the truth. The Santa we all know and love, big red white fuzz lined suit, rosy cheeks, ect. started out in a coke advertisment.

The paintings of a white anglo Jesus.......... you get the drift

[THEONE]

yup^^^ the air is real and there have been many gods. and there still are good ones and bad ones. i dont look down on any religon its our right as human beings to do what we will with this life.
the thing all the non belivers are missing is "faith" its funny how "science" created by god is being used to prove him wrong. its actually trickery the devil is taking one of gods greatest gifts "knowledge" and using it against him. the joy you feel when you go out side on a warm sunny day,the feelings of love and anger all of this emotion thats god,how can you deny it? when you do somteing good for someone else,when you give and expect nothing in return thats human nature,thats god. modern science always proves itself wrong.
miracles happen maybe not on a global scale but they do. if you look you can see them. what would life be like if god held our hand all of the time. live and learn,thats it. thats the gift.

[Big J]

What would your understanding of religion or faith be if you had been blind and deaf since birth. Your mind wouldn't be polluted and limited by thought that must be formed using words, your thoughts would be formed using emotion, recollection, touch, smell: pure and free from the coruption of words, the word of other men, the words of women, the lies of sight, written language. That's god, a purity of thought, I can never know.

I get what you're saying, but I can't give credit to a word so soiled by the mouth of man, so I simply refuse to lable it, and when those moments happen I leave "God" out of it.

[THEONE]

if i were born blind deaf and dumb i would be innocent. i would be a test for others. a trail for the mother and father who made me. god works in many diffrent ways.none of us have the right answer,live well.

[Big J]

if i were born blind deaf and dumb i would be innocent. i would be a test for others. a trail for the mother and father who made me. god works in many diffrent ways.none of us have the right answer,live well.

You would still want, you would still be human.

So is God an adjective or a noun?

[THEONE]

So is God an adjective or a noun?[/QUOTE]

i could not answer that. god is everything. he is everywhere. i really can not sum him up in one word with my puny vocabulary and misspelling.
i never blame god for my personal failures or problems with the world. he has offered us help.it does not have to be this way the answers have been here all along. but we are stubborn sinners,set in our ways, the best part is he loves us anyway.

[Hulud]

No, I can't see it but it can be understood because of concepts explained by science. I know "air" is 21% oxygen, 78% nitrogen and 1% other stuff. I know the effect of air on life becaues I understand the crebs cycle and aerobic metabolism.

Now you start to talk about "God", and there are really a whole bunch of them if your not too closed minded to belive yours is the only one. Gods come and go. Noone belives in the Roman and Greek gods anymore, the "gods" of the Indians died when they were killed by "the childern of God" in the name of "God" in the first part of Americian history. When aragance kills the folowers of todays "Gods", people will invent some new ones, but air will still be air.
holy crap, ive never heard it put like that

thats a great point

i mean ive thought about how everyone cant be right, but never about replacing gods

[Big J]

God, Gods, saviours wouldn't exist if men didn't, they are a creation of man. If there was a god or not, humans or not, the REST of the living things on this planet would go on living without a second thought.

[Big J]

holy crap, ive never heard it put like that

thats a great point

i mean ive thought about how everyone cant be right, but never about replacing gods

There are what I call "universal truths" that exist thoughout all nationalities, religions, races, ect.

The best I can sum it up is: do good and good things happen. Everyone knows right from wrong, but right isn't allways the easiest thing to do.



Then every religion hands out a book that tell stories about doing the right thing and what happens when you don't, and how even though you do the right thing, it doesn't garuntee an easy life. That's most religious texts in a nut shell.

[THEONE]

There are what I call "universal truths" that exist thoughout all nationalities, religions, races, ect.

The best I can sum it up is: do good and good things happen. Everyone knows right from wrong, but right isn't allways the easiest thing to do.



Then every religion hands out a book that tell stories about doing the right thing and what happens when you don't, and how even though you do the right thing, it doesn't garuntee an easy life. That's most religious texts in a nut shell.

ahh yes carma or karma... your a believer ;)

[TheSnail]

Well, Sunday = 3hrs X 52.14 days X 75years = I live 11,732hrs longer then a religious person.

[THEONE]

Well, Sunday = 3hrs X 52.14 days X 75years = I live 11,732hrs longer then a religious person.

WTF???? hahaha. its cool man...do your thang and i will do mine ;)

[.gauge.]

Agnostic ftw.

[ISAtlanta300]

Everyone knows right from wrong, but right isn't allways the easiest thing to do.

Whoa there....

"Everyone knows right from wrong" based on what?

If you tell me based on the current laws and morals, my friend, all those were laid out in the bible.

If you truly lived your life without regret you would be free to do what you want, damn the right from wrong.

[Jaimecbr900]

Some of you need a DICTIONARY and a copy of the Bible before you attempt to come into a debate like this. :rolleyes:

What I find odd is how people that believe THEY...Humans.....are the know all and end all still can not explain some of the most basic things in life.

I've said it a million times but every single one of the agnostics, atheists, non-believers, devil worshipers....whatever you want to label yourselves love to gloss over it because you can't get your head around a simple one word idea: FAITH.

You are trying to explain FAITH using LOGIC......DURRRR DURRRRR..... :screwy:

How can you critique a car you've NEVER driven? How can you describe how someone looks using numbers and not words or pictures? How come yall love to believe wholeheartedly "science", yet not use the DEFINITION of Faith? Definitions are "scientific", right?

Nowhere in the definition of FAITH does it describe tangibility. It actually describes the opposite. It is believing WITHOUT a LOGICAL reason. It is believing in something that CAN'T be explained by CONVENTIONAL manner. So how in GOD'Screation are you going to use LOGIC to validate something that has NO LOGIC?????? :thinking: Like giving opinions on a car you've never sat in or trying to describe something visual non-visually, it is IMPOSSIBLE.....IMPOSSIBLE until you realize that not ALL individuals need God to come down on a cloud or appear as a burning bush or turn stones into bread BEFORE they have a belief in something......IT IS CALLED FAITH!!!!!

Get over yourselves already. :rolleyes:

[Curmudgeon]

DingDingDing!!!! We now have a winner-

For those that need "proof", you're ship has sailed, and you've missed the boat.

It's not God's job to supply proof to the unfaithfull non believers.

He gave you free will to choose/believe as you desire.

All he supplies is his word, and enough rope.

Pick your tree wisely-

[Big J]

DingDingDing!!!! We now have a winner-

For those that need "proof", you're ship has sailed, and you've missed the boat.

It's not God's job to supply proof to the unfaithfull non believers.

He gave you free will to choose/believe as you desire.

All he supplies is his word, and enough rope.

Pick your tree wisely-

I still fail to see the diffrence between a child beliving in Santa Claus and an adult beliving in "life ever lasting", "devine trinity", "judgment", ect.

The diffrence is eventually a child realizes there is no fat man sliding down a chminey to give people gifts, either because the whole idea seems ridiculas once their minds mature enought to use reason and logic, someone tells them it's not true, or they just give up.

I have faith that one day people will realize there is no "God", that the results of your actions are dictated by the choices you make, that no man claiming to be the son of God should ever be taken seriously, and that making as much of a difference while your here is all you got, so instead of focusing on a "hope" that everything will be made right when they die that they will do what they can here and now.

Santa Clause says he has a list and he's checking it twice, be nice and you get toys, Jesus/God/the earthly empire of organized religion say pretty much the same thing, toys, life everlasting, whatever.

Good luck and I hope faith works out for you.

So if I don't belive in your "God", say I follow another religion, does that mean what I belive in is null and void?

[Jaimecbr900]

thats the difference you believe there is a meaning to life, i dont

And because you don't believe is the reason you feel that way.... ;)

[DnBmama05]

All I have to say is once you DO believe in God and put your life in his hands - He will definitely show you how real He really is. That is all :)

[quickdodge®]

All I have to say is once you DO believe in God and put your life in his hands - He will definitely show you how real He really is.

Hmmmm. Not necessarily. Later, QD.

[Hulud]

And because you don't believe is the reason you feel that way.... ;)
which is my whole point

i never say im 100% right, all i say is i dont believe in your god

[DnBmama05]

I find these threads somewhat amusing. It's always the religious threads you find most of the non-religious people in. I've never been the type to look down on someone because of what they believe or don't believe in. I just find it funny that people who don't believe will be the quickest to respond to a thread like this and maybe even say it is 'ignorant' or stupid to believe in someone you can't see or touch. This is why a lot of believers are scared to admit they believe - some will even say they don't know if they believe or not to keep themselves from sounding crazy. I grew up in a religious family and the older I got the more I wondered how real can God be? and am I wasting my time with all of this? I think a lot of people are just waiting for something to happen to show us that God is real and thankfully that 'something' happened to me a few years ago. Sometimes the signs are right in front of us and we don't even realize it. I now don't doubt God and because I don't I have been blessed with more things than I can count. I can't imagine not being able to have someone to pray to when life gets rough. I don't need to copy and paste internet sources or type big fancy words to try to prove what I believe in. I don't consider anyone who doesn't believe in God to be ignorant or stupid for not believing since it is hard for us to comprehend something like that without having some kind of faith. If anyone cares enough to tear this post apart have at it. I'm not trying to change anyone's views because that would be as impossible as trying to change mine :)

[GSRteg®]

Damn this is good!

[TheSnail]

I find these threads somewhat amusing. It's always the religious threads you find most of the non-religious people in. I've never been the type to look down on someone because of what they believe or don't believe in. I just find it funny that people who don't believe will be the quickest to respond to a thread like this and maybe even say it is 'ignorant' or stupid to believe in someone you can't see or touch. This is why a lot of believers are scared to admit they believe - some will even say they don't know if they believe or not to keep themselves from sounding crazy. I grew up in a religious family and the older I got the more I wondered how real can God be? and am I wasting my time with all of this? I think a lot of people are just waiting for something to happen to show us that God is real and thankfully that 'something' happened to me a few years ago. Sometimes the signs are right in front of us and we don't even realize it. I now don't doubt God and because I don't I have been blessed with more things than I can count. I can't imagine not being able to have someone to pray to when life gets rough. I don't need to copy and paste internet sources or type big fancy words to try to prove what I believe in. I don't consider anyone who doesn't believe in God to be ignorant or stupid for not believing since it is hard for us to comprehend something like that without having some kind of faith. If anyone cares enough to tear this post apart have at it. I'm not trying to change anyone's views because that would be as impossible as trying to change mine :)


At least the non believers don't go to other countries and try to convert people, far as well threads on the internet. Your statement is false.

[TheSnail]

and crap

[b@d @pple]

religion


Something that has surely lasted the wrath of time. Despite this, it is fundamentally wrong (every year we learn more about how religion is bullshit), and often racially intolerable (kill the Jews! Ok, now kill the Muslims! All right, whoever's left: kill the Buhdists!). Has been the cause of many great wars, including the most famous of all: the Crusades, of which there were seven, if I remember correctly. It is an excuse to murder, it is a scapegoat in all its forms (well, shit, I just shot my wife--GOD MADE ME DO IT! SHE WAS AN AGENT OF LUCIFER!!!).

I do not simply attack Christianity or Catholicism, no, ALL religons are based off a false worship of some supernatural being that simply is not there. There is no evidence for this (beyond, often, a book--e.g. the Bible--which can obviously not prove the existance of the text withtin it) and whole heaping loads of evidence against.

I like how preople bring up atheists like we are bad What the hell kind of retort is this? What, not believing in God makes you a horrible monster?: Hitler was a fucking Catholic. He murdered millions in his holy quest to destroy the Jews; he claimed he was "Doing the Lords work" and, upon the eve of his war on Russia, the Pope CONGRATULATED his efforts. Throughout the war he was not excommunicated.

In the Middle East countries war over something as silly as nonexistant entities. Since the begginging of recorded history man has made war on other men because they refused to worship the same invisible diety as another.

And for what? Something that doesn't even fucking exist. It's illogical; it's evil. If I could, I would wipe every religion from the face of the Earth and start fresh. Fuck religion. It solves nothing and creates all sorts of unnecesary shit.

[b@d @pple]

A man once said 'Religion is a tool the Devil uses to play man against himself'. Try not to take the 'Devil' part to seriously and imagine the Devil as a force and how the 'Devil' plays on emotions like insecurity. All religions believe they are right and all the other thousands of religions are wrong, the more people that believe in a certain religion the more they all feel they are right eg: if there was a religion with say only 5 members everyone would laugh there beliefs off without question but the more people that believe in something the more it is taken as genuine. Now when a large number of people believe in something different to what another large number of people believe it makes them feel insecure in the way of making them feel there might be a chance they might not be right. This is why you get religious wars, if the opposing people wont believe in what you do then you kill them and with them out of the way and no more opposing views, you feel secure again also a lot of religions recruit with fear eg: Catholics use the fear of hell and tell people that if you dont believe in what they do that is where you are going and they tell Catholic childern this from a very young age in an attempt to stop them from leaving the religion in later life. This is what has happened throughout history and will continue to happen if religion exists although a lot of religious poeple dont feel thretened by others there will always be the insecure ones that cant stand people believing in things they do, people should be able to believe in what they want as long as there a good person, people should be able to look at life and make there own decisions on what they want to believe, and kids should certainly not be brought up with there parents telling them what to believe, sure there parents can tell them what they believe but at the same time tell them they can believe whatever they want to believe in as long as they are a good person. Just remember most religions are nearly identical in there morals eg peace, love, charity etc its just the different ways of worship that divide them, and these are what calls all the wars which is so stupid if you think about it and worship is what devines a religion, so if you take out worship what do you have: 'Good Morals'. Religious people need to take there living morals seriously but have a less intense and serious approach to worship or things like: what happens when you die, is god a man or is god a not of sex, was Jesus really the sun of God or was he a prophet, none of these things really matter on a day to day basis its the living morals that really count.

[Jaimecbr900]

See, what gets me is how bad you guys stereotype "religion" and "Christianity" and even "God". Some of you have a total misconception and are totally incorrect about what any of it really is. Don't know where you got those ideas, and to be honest it really doesn't matter. They are simply wrong, period.

Church leaders are merely that, leaders. Just like you have a teacher in front of the class to teach, yet why don't people say we are all just following him/her? We don't, right? We're merely there to LEARN something? Why is it that church is any different for some of you? Why is it that if we go to church suddenly we become these mindless Zombies falling and kissing the feet of our "leaders"??? That is FAR from the truth. We may listen. We may even agree. We certainly don't fall and kiss their feet like they are GODS. You guys are so intent on believing the hype that you lose total sight of common sense. Catholics listen and follow the teachings of the Pope because he is the highest educated leader in their church organization. They do NOT think he's God. They do NOT think what he says is the gospel. Just like we agree or disagree with our President or Boss, they do the same thing. Doesn't mean they WORSHIP him. If they do, they are in total disagreement with what the Bible teaches.

People falsely think that because you pray a certain way or say certain verses of the Bible that you suddenly become this hollier-than-thou person that casts stones at all those that don't believe. That is far from the truth. It may happen every once in a while, but name anything that doesn't have an exception to it's rule. Often times the church and religion tries to teach us to be tolerant rather than judgemental. Some of us do a lousy job at learning that, I admit it. But for people to go around professing that the reason they don't believe in God at all because they have a bad taste in their mouth from some "church goer" is totally missing the boat all together.

It's only about one thing and it always has been: God. Do you believe, yes or no? If so, are you willing to follow? If so, here's how. Period. End of discussion. That is what "religion" is about at it's very core. There are many different ideas out there on how to get from point A to point B, and this is where YOU have to decide which one is the one YOU believe in.

If you need a burning bush to tell you, you missed the boat.

If you need Jesus to come down in a cloud and tap you on the head to believe, you missed the boat.

If you think that a "church" makes you a better follower because it's big and fancy and has lots of members, then you missed the boat.

If you feel that there is no purpose to life besides what is tangible, then you certainly missed the boat.



Why do we build such fancy schools? Could we not get the same level of learning from setting up a few benches in front of a lonely chalkboard in the middle of a pasture? Why not? Why do we really "need" a huge gymnasium to learn? Why do we need new books? Why do students need lockers or chairs? Can they not learn standing up? Do we really need trophy cases to learn? Why not allow a teacher to be a homeless person, after all who better to teach our children about "real life"?

Now think about that when you come down and pass judgement on a church you've never even been in. Think about it. ;)

[ISAtlanta300]

At least the non believers don't go to other countries and try to convert people, far as well threads on the internet. Your statement is false.

Ya indeed.. the Non believers prefer to start out at home by forcing bans and legislatures on everything religious from "Merry Christmas" to the "easter bunny", under the pretext of political correctness :rolleyes:

[DnBmama05]

At least the non believers don't go to other countries and try to convert people, far as well threads on the internet. Your statement is false.

I read this up until the comma and then it made absolutely no sense :thinking: If you are going to quote something I posted please make it relevant to the quote. I didn't say anything about mission trips or going to other countries. I made a few statements in that one post and I really didn't see the one that could be false (not that it matters if you read as well as you type) I wasn't trying to prove anything to anyone I was just stating my personal opinion on the matter like everyone else has ;)

[BlueHatch]

explain my 7 year old autistic cousin, my grandfather who was in good health dying on chrisatmas eve, and my best friend getting shot in the back of the head. if there is he is cruel

[TheSnail]

I read this up until the comma and then it made absolutely no sense :thinking: If you are going to quote something I posted please make it relevant to the quote. I didn't say anything about mission trips or going to other countries. I made a few statements in that one post and I really didn't see the one that could be false (not that it matters if you read as well as you type) I wasn't trying to prove anything to anyone I was just stating my personal opinion on the matter like everyone else has ;)



Im not arguing, you're simply too hardheaded to explain it to. Dont get me wrong, I want every thing to be nice and dandy once I die rather then shit just going black, but believing in that is less believable then Santa. But to push your buttons, last year I used the bible in the Red Roof as toilet paper even though I had toilet paper. It's not gonna come back on me, because there aint shit out there to come back on me for.

[b@d @pple]

unless you die of live failure....hahahah sorry thats not funny snail

[Jaimecbr900]

Im not arguing, you're simply too hardheaded to explain it to.

She's not the only hard headed person here, trust me. ;)



Dont get me wrong, I want every thing to be nice and dandy once I die rather then shit just going black, but believing in that is less believable then Santa.

Can't have it both ways young man. You either believe or don't believe. You think there's an afterlife or you don't. If you do, then you by default have to believe in some kind of superior being. So if you don't, then you certainly aren't going to have everything "nice and dandy". Pick a side, but you can't have both.



But to push your buttons, last year I used the bible in the Red Roof as toilet paper even though I had toilet paper.

What purpose did that serve? You like a chapped behind? You like wiping with rough paper? What was the real purpose of doing such a thing?


It's not gonna come back on me, because there aint shit out there to come back on me for.

Spoken like someone who is concerned and therefore is justifying something to be able to sleep better at night. If you're truly not concerned about something that you honestly feel doesn't exist.....then why bother justifying it? Makes no sense, does it? :thinking:

[Jaimecbr900]

explain my 7 year old autistic cousin, my grandfather who was in good health dying on chrisatmas eve, and my best friend getting shot in the back of the head. if there is he is cruel

You too have to decide one way or another. Either you believe there is a God, or you don't. Your post makes it seem ambigious.

Why does anyone die at all? Look at what just happened to the IA community with Val. Why did she have to die? Why did your Grandfather have to go? Why did my Grandmother, who was in the same situation as your Grandfather being healthy and happy then suddenly passing away, have to go? Why do children have to die? Why do parents have to bury their own children?

All of us here are left with more questions than answers. Answers is what everyone wants for closure. The question is: Where do you go to find those answers? Some people look inward and become bitter. Some people look outward and realize that there is a purpose to everything under the sun. While someone's death is very tragic and hurts for a long time, it does serve some kind of purpose. You may not find that purpose until you look in different places, but if you look eventually the purpose will fall into place. I'm still looking and searching for my Grandmother's purpose. She was an angel on earth as far as I was concerned. She was seemingly healthy. She certainly was happy. She had the support of her entire family. Why did she have to go while no-good murderers get to live?

Trust me, I've asked the same questions you have. I'm still trying to figure out that last piece of my Grandmother's puzzle. One day I'm certain that piece will fall into place and I will see the picture God wants ME to see. Until then, I will keep looking for that. I suggest you do the same. I understand the questions and the initial bitterness of losing a loved one unexpectedly. But if you don't channel that negative energy into something more constructive, you will find yourself being bitter for a long long time.

I hope you find the answers you're looking for, but I know one thing....there is a purpose to everything. Remember that. :goodjob:

[PhAtBoYMr2]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Jaimecbr900 again.

[Jaimecbr900]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Jaimecbr900 again.

YOU da man.....I'm just long winded..... :D ;)

[mccoy1178]

JamieCbR900 - I just want to say "Thank You"

I am also a believer of JESUS. I lost my only son to SIDS and he was only 48days old. His checkup was great and healthy. I lost him wednesday before Thanksgiving 06. So how my wife and me get thru this. It was GOD, bc he was our Comforter. I cremated my son that weekend and scattered him to the ocean. Me and my wife didnt blame GOD or even be mad at him bc we knew my son lost had a purpose (to bring me and my wife back to GOD bc we werent living right. I thank GOD he has accepted me and my wife back even though we're living wrong) I still miss him everyday but I know if i live right, I will be with him for eternity.

People who know me on IA know how I am. We dont have to defend if GOD exists, we show it everyday thru our living. Everyone has a purpose in life, but if u lives thru you, ur purpose is to redeem as my souls back to GOD as my son has done for me and my wife. I hope I can be a light for everyone who is searching for GOD. Thanks for the space.

Mccoy

[Jaimecbr900]

JamieCbR900 - I just want to say "Thank You"

You're welcomed, although I'm not sure what you're thankful to me about. ;)

I can't even begin to fathom what the pain of having one of your children die, so my heart goes out to you. :cry:

[JDMEK18]

Now this is nice!!!!

Dancing with God

When I meditated on the word GUIDANCE, I was drawn to"dance" at the end
of the word. I reflected upon how doing God's will is a lot like
dancing. When two people try to lead, nothing feels right. The movement
doesn't flow with the music, and everything is quite uncomfortable and
jerky. When one person realizes this and lets the other lead, both
bodies begin to flow with the music. One gives gentle cues, perhaps with
a nudge to the back or by pressing lightly in one direction or another.
It's as if two become one body, moving beautifully. The dance takes
surrender, willingness, and attentiveness from one person and gentle
guidance and skill from the other.

My eyes drew back to the word GUIDANCE. When I saw "G," I thought of
God, followed by "u" and "i." "God, "u" and "i" dance". God, you, and I
dance. This statement is what guidance means to me. As I lowered my
head, I became willing to trust that I would get guidance about my life.
Once again, I became willing to let God lead.


Thank you and have a blessed day,

[DnBmama05]

Im not arguing, you're simply too hardheaded to explain it to. Dont get me wrong, I want every thing to be nice and dandy once I die rather then shit just going black, but believing in that is less believable then Santa. But to push your buttons, last year I used the bible in the Red Roof as toilet paper even though I had toilet paper. It's not gonna come back on me, because there aint shit out there to come back on me for.

You're not pushing my buttons. Nice try though :goodjob: I'm not hard headed you're just close-minded. I'm sure God is just happy you picked a Bible up.

[TheSnail]

I'll leave yall alone then. lol

Hey, but if there turns out to be a God, I'll be yelling yalls names to sneak me in. At 2-3am, open the gate for me or something.

[DnBmama05]

alright... but only under one condition... that you leave the Bible you wiped your ass with behind ;)

[TheSnail]

Deal. I only used a couple of chapters of it so it's still good. But I left it behind so I wont be bringing it with me.

[ahmonrah]

lol!! snail...your rediculous!! :lmfao:

[superfox1]

The debate on weather or not there is a God has been going on for years. Now which God do you consider the one true god? That is another debate. I believe I heard somewhere that there are over 7,000 different Gods worshiped in the world. Which one is the correct one? If you believe in one, and you turn out to be wrong, are you ready to face the punishment that God has to deliver? The Christian bible was "put together" by men...not a book handed down by God. The stories written in the bible were written by men. Take the Book of revelations for example...it was written by a man who was in exile...haven been persecuted by the Romans, wrote a story about when he and his people will one day come back and get ultimate revenge on the Romans. The book of revelations was so far out there, that it was almost not included in the final bible. What was included in the bible were the books and stories that most people at the time believed to be true. There were many books that were left out of the final bible though...Why were they left out?
Now, having said all that, I should point out that I am a christian. I believe in God I believe in one true God. I believe this because of very personal events in my life, but, will I blindly follow what a book says? NO! Will I accept that there is a God because it just makes sense? No! I do believe in the big bang theory...I believe the world is very old....science tells me this...it can be proven..but does that mean that God does or doesnt exist....I dont believe is makes a diference. I see science as fact...if it can be proven it is true.

That is all, thanks!

[BlueHatch]

You too have to decide one way or another. Either you believe there is a God, or you don't. Your post makes it seem ambigious.

Why does anyone die at all? Look at what just happened to the IA community with Val. Why did she have to die? Why did your Grandfather have to go? Why did my Grandmother, who was in the same situation as your Grandfather being healthy and happy then suddenly passing away, have to go? Why do children have to die? Why do parents have to bury their own children?

All of us here are left with more questions than answers. Answers is what everyone wants for closure. The question is: Where do you go to find those answers? Some people look inward and become bitter. Some people look outward and realize that there is a purpose to everything under the sun. While someone's death is very tragic and hurts for a long time, it does serve some kind of purpose. You may not find that purpose until you look in different places, but if you look eventually the purpose will fall into place. I'm still looking and searching for my Grandmother's purpose. She was an angel on earth as far as I was concerned. She was seemingly healthy. She certainly was happy. She had the support of her entire family. Why did she have to go while no-good murderers get to live?

Trust me, I've asked the same questions you have. I'm still trying to figure out that last piece of my Grandmother's puzzle. One day I'm certain that piece will fall into place and I will see the picture God wants ME to see. Until then, I will keep looking for that. I suggest you do the same. I understand the questions and the initial bitterness of losing a loved one unexpectedly. But if you don't channel that negative energy into something more constructive, you will find yourself being bitter for a long long time.

I hope you find the answers you're looking for, but I know one thing....there is a purpose to everything. Remember that. :goodjob:
right on +1 to you. and yes it is kind of "straddling the fence" statement, but who's to say ive made up my mind? as one of these people who dwells on shit damn near to extinction, i really find that its day to day. i like to think that everything happens for a reason jaime i really do but when sometimes when you tell yourself that over and over, it starts to sound like a cop-out almost. im sorry about your grandmother and your friend. they are peaceful. like my homeboy rico somewhere cold chillin

[quickdodge®]

The debate on weather or not

Whether. Later, QD.

[quickdodge®]

I can't even begin to fathom what the pain of having one of your children die, so my heart goes out to you. :cry:

Ditto. Just saw this post. Wow. Props to you for keeping on. Later, QD.

[quickdodge®]

You too have to decide one way or another. Either you believe there is a God, or you don't. Your post makes it seem ambigious.

That would be me, too, High-Mee. Later, QD.

[Jaimecbr900]

That would be me, too, High-Mee. Later, QD.

I know.... ;)

[Jaimecbr900]

BTW, I'm going to jump up on my stump for a minute because to be honest I'm really sick of hearing the same tired excuse.

The Bible was PHYSICALLY written by men. What's the point? Show me a single religious text that they use at ANY church on Sunday that isn't. EVERY single "Bible" for EVERY religion was written BY a man sometime. Right or wrong? If you say wrong, bring me the "Bible" you use and believe was written by your God then.

I'm sick and tired of hearing the same old tired rebuttal that the Christian Bible was "written" by men so it can't be factual, it must be what "man" says and not what God wants it to say. Well that's just absolutely retarded logic. Using that logic would mean that EVERY single book in existance was utterly incorrect since a printing company printed a bunch of copies and it wasn't personally handwritten by the original author therefore it suddenly didn't say what he/she originally wanted it to say....... :thinking: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: . So does that mean that since Newton died hundreds of years ago his theories and "laws" suddenly seize to be true simply because it has been re-written or re-printed by someone else???

How's that make sense? It doesn't. I'm personally tired of hearing the same old line. Come up with something better. Use your brain. Read the Bible and point out what it is you don't agree with. I have far more respect for someone that has read the Bible and questions something, than someone who's never read it yet just points in the proximity of it and questions it's validity.

/off my stump. (For now) ;)

[quickdodge®]

I'm sick and tired of hearing the same old tired rebuttal that the Christian Bible was "written" by men so it can't be factual, it must be what "man" says and not what God wants it to say.

I do agree that just because Man wrote the book it doesn't mean it isn't true to life. But, how does Man know what happened in the very beginning, Adam and Eve. How do they know all the details to put in the book? To me, I see the Bible as being kind of on the same lines as the old Davy and Goliath shows that came on TV years ago:

http://www.tbn.org/watch/images/programs/daveyand%20goliath.jpg

Just a bunch of stories compiled into one big book(like a Mother Goose book) to teach people morals and the way of God. That's part of what I don't understand. I don't know. At the same time that I get so confused about this stuff, I do find it fascinating as hail. Later, QD.

[Total_Blender]

1. The complexity of our planet points to a deliberate Designer who not only created our universe, but sustains it today

Thats debateable. Scientists have the theory of the big bang pertty well figured out. You are looking at the world through the human perspective where things are "made" and "designed". When in nature, things just happen. The "sentience" of the design you speak of exists in the form of evolution and natural selection, as creatures and plants adapt to changing circumstances.

2. The human brain's complexity shows a higher intelligence behind it

Again, thats from a human perspective. The designs of many other tissues in nature are also quite complex, but the theory of a designer doesn't hold up. Living tissue is quite vulnerable to trauma and cannot survive long without oxygen and water. Where a "designed" thing such as a computer is much less vulnerable to trauma and can be re-started in the event of a power failure. Think of the evolution of brains this way: billions of years of trial and error using the natural substances that life evolved from.

3. "Chance" or "natural causes" are insufficient explanations

Humans have no concept of "not life". Science has not excluded the possibility that life on Earth arrived from somewhere else in the universe, such as a comet. Science also contends that much of Earth's water supply is from comets that collided with the planet billions of years ago.

4. To state with certainty that there is no God, a person has to ignore the passion of an enormously vast number of people who are convinced that there is a God

There are just as many (more actually) who believe in a different God than you do, and there are also many who believe in no God at all. Lots of people used to think the Earth was flat y'know.

5. We know God exists because he pursues us. He is constantly initiating and seeking for us to come to him

God has never spoken to or pursued me directly. I always hear about him when people talk about him, and when the Jehovah's witnesses show up t my door. God has never spoken to me face to face if you get my drift.

6. Unlike any other revelation of God, Jesus Christ is the clearest, most specific picture of God pursuing us

When Jesus shows up in the flesh and makes my order of Fish N' Chips feed a multitude, I'll believe with you. BTW theres a hungry multitude in Darfur and I bet they like fish.:goodjob:

[jskylinesx]

Atheist!!! :super:


Riddle me this...

(keep in mind, i'm just throwing this one up in the air, and i'm really looking for an answer)

If Adam and Eve were the only two people in the world whom were created by the almighty GOD himself, then how did they procreate? Im not looking for a explaination on how they did it physically, but weren't they technically kin. I mean, God created Adam and then he created Eve form Adam's rib...

A more important question is would it be considered incest if they had offspring??? If not in the case of Adam and Eve, what about their children??? it says in the bible that EVERYONE is a decendent of Adam and Eve, so somewhere along the line someone must have had sex with thier sister, right??? :thinking:

Just a little question for the believers.......;).........:D

Whether or not you may believe in evolution, God or any form of higher power, or nothing at all... everything came from somewhere, right? Whether or not you believe it was God who created us through Adam and Eve, we all came from the same origin. So Adam and Eve were brother and sister, and they had children, their children then had children, and so on. Even if you believe in evolution, there had to have been the first few people who were created. Just for those who oppose this argument, lets say 1 million people were created. Well, they still had to be created from the same place or matter to just "appear" out of their previous non-existence. Whether you believe it was Adam and Eve who created us or people just started popping up out of nowhere from little pieces of matter starting to evolve... if you think about it, everytime you have sex you are sleeping with a very distant relative. And we can still create children and mass produce with these distant relatives. Why couldn't they do it back then in the beginning of it all? Call it incest, call it what you will. Two completely different people didn't form from two completely different places and just evolve, so if you believe in evolution or you are an atheist (whatever it is that you believe in your opposition to God), everytime you have sex you are fucking your very distant sister.

[Total_Blender]

so if you believe in evolution or you are an atheist (whatever it is that you believe in your opposition to God), everytime you have sex you are fucking your very distant sister.

Inbreeding is actually a part of the speciation process. A population of a certain type of animal becomes isolated from the rest, and the gene pool narrows, evolution is speeded up because inbreeding allows mutations and such. Crazy bit its true.

Think about it... monkeys get down out of the trees, and start moving on the ground. The monkeys that are coming down out of the trees form a big monkey import club and bring their hoochie-mama monkeys with them. Now out of these monkeys, the ones who can walk on 2 legs can cover the most ground and win races. They start having secret gtg's far away from the trees to get away from the ricer monkeys who aren't fast and just get in the way.

Now these monkeys don't want to go back into the trees because they have so much fun racing on the ground. The hook up with their hoochies and raise their monkey kids on the ground. They learn to eat meat instead of banannas.... Etc etc

http://tripp.fenderson.net/images/uploads/fling_poo_stand_clear_thumb.jpg