Split Fulton County?

[{X}Echo419]

article (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16773267/?GT1=8921)

discuss

[ironchef]

Milton County FTW. Im tired of paying taxes and it doesn't go back into my neighborhood and schools. The milton county area is 29% of the population but paying 42% of the taxes? That right there is the biggest problem, imo. This has nothing to do with race at all, everyone just tries to play the race card as much as they can.

[Kamikaze]

Milton County FTW. Im tired of paying taxes and it doesn't go back into my neighborhood and schools.

We're not immune to what you just described on the southside. Compare the southside to the northside. Where do you think our tax money is going? It sure isn't coming our way.


This has nothing to do with race at all, everyone just tries to play the race card as much as they can.

Yes it does. The demographics of north Fulton compared to south Fulton are completely opposite. I'll see if I can find the demographic chart.

[Jaimecbr900]

Milton County FTW. Im tired of paying taxes and it doesn't go back into my neighborhood and schools. The milton county area is 29% of the population but paying 42% of the taxes? That right there is the biggest problem, imo. This has nothing to do with race at all, everyone just tries to play the race card as much as they can.

I heard the exact same figures myself. If that's so, then I don't blame them for wanting to split. Fulton Co. Politics always seem to be in hot water somewhere. :rolleyes:

[Jaimecbr900]

We're not immune to what you just described on the southside. Compare the southside to the northside. Where do you think our tax money is going? It sure isn't coming our way.

Where do you suppose it's going then?




Yes it does. The demographics of north Fulton compared to south Fulton are completely opposite. I'll see if I can find the demographic chart.

Everything doesn't have to be about race. Sometimes its just simple MATH.

[{X}Echo419]

We're not immune to what you just described on the southside. Compare the southside to the northside. Where do you think our tax money is going? It sure isn't coming our way.



Yes it does. The demographics of north Fulton compared to south Fulton are completely opposite. I'll see if I can find the demographic chart.

saying it's b/c of race is like saying the people in South Fulton Co. are poor b/c they are black.

it's all about econimics, everything else is secondary. the politicians screaming about race just want to keep their positions of power. and if Fulton was to split they would lose their influence over whitey :2cents:

[ironchef]

exactly right, sure the demographics are skewed, but that doesn't mean you still need to bring in the race card.

[Kamikaze]

Where do you suppose it's going then?

I would like to know the answer to that to. Like I said before, it's not coming our way.



Everything doesn't have to be about race. Sometimes its just simple MATH.

You know good and well it's not that simple when concerning matters like this.

[Kamikaze]

exactly right, sure the demographics are skewed, but that doesn't mean you still need to bring in the race card.

Then by all means explain what else it could be.

[2.0civic]

Then by all means explain what else it could be.


ill take cause were white and we have more money and nice shit cause we work hard and dont smoke crack and collect welfare for 500 alex:rolleyes:

[Kamikaze]

ill take cause were white and we have more money and nice shit cause we work hard and dont smoke crack and collect welfare for 500 alex:rolleyes:

I thought you guys ate opossums and went huntin' with the hounds. Guess that must just be a stereotype. :rolleyes:

[Jaimecbr900]

I would like to know the answer to that to. Like I said before, it's not coming our way.

Not according to the politicians.




You know good and well it's not that simple when concerning matters like this.

Not really. If the majority of the money is coming from the minority of the people, it's pretty straight forward.

[2.0civic]

lol im going to say it simply cause this is why im for tair tax...

it sucks when someone who works hard and pulls lets say...280k a year....after taxes, youre roughly looking at 200...someone can make 150k and walk away with 100l\k...


so the guy who worked harder (screwed the system, however you look at it) just put an extra 30k into the county...why should the higher earner be penalized more for making more?? its a free enterprise country and nobody is preventing the "lower" income people from doing shit with their lives, except their own decisions.


sorry for the rant but basic economics are pretty fucking self explanatory and has jack shit to do with race....


BTW, oprahs a multimillionaire and so is Jordan but i know alot of broke white people.....

[Cool Cat GTR]

Why is it that everyone always thinks the world revolves around race? The world revolves around money. Color has nothing to do with it. For every instance where the rich want to dump the burden of supporting poor people, the race card is going to be played. So to read the article, I come away with the thought that the rich and poor/black or white or whatever you want to call it have done a piss poor job governing Fulton County. All people in Fulton are responsible regardless of wealth or race. My recommendation would be for Fulton County to cease totally and start over based solely on the obvious corruption and poor management of the government. Here's the only defense that the affluent can argue. The majority of the people residing in Fulton County elected people based on race rather than on abilities and by doing so have put the county at risk by having underqualified people governing them. If racism exists, it's because blacks were more concerned with a black holding office than they were with the success of the county. Sure, experienced black candidates exists and would make fine public servants but it they don't profess to be strong supporters of "black" people, they will not get elected. The perfect candidate should be a person that is concerned for the well being of "all" people. So if anyone wants to play the race card, they need to look in the mirror because they probably played that card when they voted.

[ironchef]

Why is it that everyone always thinks the world revolves around race? The world revolves around money. Color has nothing to do with it. For every instance where the rich want to dump the burden of supporting poor people, the race card is going to be played. So to read the article, I come away with the thought that the rich and poor/black or white or whatever you want to call it have done a piss poor job governing Fulton County. All people in Fulton are responsible regardless of wealth or race. My recommendation would be for Fulton County to cease totally and start over based solely on the obvious corruption and poor management of the government. Here's the only defense that the affluent can argue. The majority of the people residing in Fulton County elected people based on race rather than on abilities and by doing so have put the county at risk by having underqualified people governing them. If racism exists, it's because blacks were more concerned with a black holding office than they were with the success of the county. Sure, experienced black candidates exists and would make fine public servants but it they don't profess to be strong supporters of "black" people, they will not get elected. The perfect candidate should be a person that is concerned for the well being of "all" people. So if anyone wants to play the race card, they need to look in the mirror because they probably played that card when they voted.Well said.

To anyone who thinks this is about race, I pose a question to you. How would you feel if you were pretty wealthy making the big bucks and getting taxed, but not seeing those tax dollars go to something useful like your childs public school, improved roads, parks, whatever? Instead that money goes to support some dumb bitch with 6 kids who won't get her fatass off welfare, and she doesn't even know who the damn dads are. How would you feel about that? Notice also I didn't bring a race into that equation, because color doesn't matter, only color that matters is green (the color of money for the color blind).

[alawa]

Roosevelt said the status of the country should be measured from the bottom. Obviously Ironchef you have no regard to humanity, but rather to the dollar. I am a big proponent of a social system here as they have in Europe, like th earticle states, Atlanta may not be that progressive after all.

[2.0civic]

Why is it that everyone always thinks the world revolves around race? The world revolves around money. Color has nothing to do with it. For every instance where the rich want to dump the burden of supporting poor people, the race card is going to be played. So to read the article, I come away with the thought that the rich and poor/black or white or whatever you want to call it have done a piss poor job governing Fulton County. All people in Fulton are responsible regardless of wealth or race. My recommendation would be for Fulton County to cease totally and start over based solely on the obvious corruption and poor management of the government. Here's the only defense that the affluent can argue. The majority of the people residing in Fulton County elected people based on race rather than on abilities and by doing so have put the county at risk by having underqualified people governing them. If racism exists, it's because blacks were more concerned with a black holding office than they were with the success of the county. Sure, experienced black candidates exists and would make fine public servants but it they don't profess to be strong supporters of "black" people, they will not get elected. The perfect candidate should be a person that is concerned for the well being of "all" people. So if anyone wants to play the race card, they need to look in the mirror because they probably played that card when they voted.


+ motherfucking 1!

[2.0civic]

Well said.

To anyone who thinks this is about race, I pose a question to you. How would you feel if you were pretty wealthy making the big bucks and getting taxed, but not seeing those tax dollars go to something useful like your childs public school, improved roads, parks, whatever? Instead that money goes to support some dumb bitch with 6 kids who won't get her fatass off welfare, and she doesn't even know who the damn dads are. How would you feel about that? Notice also I didn't bring a race into that equation, because color doesn't matter, only color that matters is green (the color of money for the color blind).

well said again +1 also

[ironchef]

Yes, I dont have regard for humanity because i feel a lower percentage of people paying a higher percentage of the taxes is fair :rolleyes::thinking:. You can't sit there and tell me thats fair in the least. Do you realize that becoming more socialist here would result in the raising of taxes even further? Ill stick to a capitalistic economy thank you very much.

[alawa]

im all for higher taxes, low taxes are the reason why our infrastructure is falling apart, most schools (except of the wealthy) are failing. If yuou make mor emoney, your amount of tax will be higher, not necesarilly the rate (that is what the article is saying). Not tha tif you make more percentage wise you are taxed more, acutally under the current administration, taxes formt he wealthy have been lower than the impoverished. But this argument is mental masterbation, milton county will neve rbe again.

[Kamikaze]

How would you feel if you were pretty wealthy making the big bucks and getting taxed, but not seeing those tax dollars go to something useful like your childs public school, improved roads, parks, whatever?

I don't know. Why don't you ask some of the pretty wealthy people on the southside how it feels? I would imagine it's pretty frustrating.

[ironchef]

What does the southside have to do with this? Im talking in general, nowhere in my original comment did I state a certain location for wealthy individuals.

[ironchef]

im all for higher taxes, low taxes are the reason why our infrastructure is falling apart, most schools (except of the wealthy) are failing. If yuou make mor emoney, your amount of tax will be higher, not necesarilly the rate (that is what the article is saying). Not tha tif you make more percentage wise you are taxed more, acutally under the current administration, taxes formt he wealthy have been lower than the impoverished. But this argument is mental masterbation, milton county will neve rbe again.How is our infrastructure falling apart? Theres more cops on the streets, theres more hospitals being put up, more and more services provided to the citizens, etc. Schools aren't failing because of the funding, theyre failing because newer generations of kids are absolute retards that can't make the grade, they either lack any kind of motivation, will, or simply the brain capacity.

As far as your statement about taxes from the wealthy have been lower than the impoverished, care to back it up with facts? That article itself states that a much lower percentage of the people are paying a higher percentage of the taxes.

I can understand why you said the schools are failing though, because you cant seem to write a decent sentence free from spelling and grammar mistakes. You don't want to place the blame on yourself, you'd rather blame the schools.

[2.0civic]

*grabs popcorn*

seriously i have a huge bad right now

[alawa]

haha, ironchef, your ad hominem attacks are quite amusing. Furthermore, basic math will tell you that if one person is taxed 10 and makes 40k they will pay 4k in taxes, whereas if you make 280k you will pay 28k in taxes, thus they pay more, but the percentage is the same.

[Kamikaze]

What does the southside have to do with this? Im talking in general, nowhere in my original comment did I state a certain location for wealthy individuals.

Are we not talking about the discrepencies between north and south Fulton county? Based on the rest of the thread, I thought that's what we were talking about. :thinking: If you're talking "in general" maybe you should state that next time.

[ironchef]

haha, ironchef, your ad hominem attacks are quite amusing. Furthermore, basic math will tell you that if one person is taxed 10 and makes 40k they will pay 4k in taxes, whereas if you make 280k you will pay 28k in taxes, thus they pay more, but the percentage is the same.Except the problem is our tax system isnt proportional yet progressive. So your basic math example is quite useless.

[Kamikaze]

Furthermore, basic math will tell you that if one person is taxed 10 and makes 40k they will pay 4k in taxes, whereas if you make 280k you will pay 28k in taxes, thus they pay more, but the percentage is the same.

Exactly. You make more, you pay more. Seems fair to me.

[ironchef]

Exactly. You make more, you pay more. Seems fair to me.Well then would it be fair if the people who payed more recieved more services, had more cops in their areas, had much better public education, had much better roads, etc etc. I think there would be a shitload of people complaining if that was the case.

[alawa]

Ironchef and Steve, I am quite thankful that you are 19 years of age. Hopefully you are pursuing higher education. Higher Education should expose you to the real world, and not just the bubble of Alpharetta. I am from Leawood, KS a suburb far more affluent than Alpharetta (look it up), but I still care about the poor. It takes a long time to break out of your boughgeousis style of thinking. I assume, maybe incorrectly that you come from a privledged background as I see you drive a new A4 at 19 and you live in Alpharetta. While there is nothing wrong with this, there is something innately wrong with your animosity towards the poor. Furthermore, I was a national merit scholar, not that I have to justify myself to you, but in an argument, when you begin to make ad hominem attacks, you lose, be considerate of what you say. :-)

[Kamikaze]

Furthermore, basic math will tell you that if one person is taxed 10 [percent] and makes 40k they will pay 4k in taxes, whereas if you make 280k you will pay 28k in taxes, thus they pay more, but the percentage is the same.


Except the problem is our tax system isnt proportional yet progressive. So your basic math example is quite useless.


A progressive tax is a tax imposed so that the tax rate increases as the amount to which the rate is applied increases. The term "progressive tax" can be applied to any type of tax. It is frequently applied in reference to income taxes, where people with more disposable income pay a higher percentage of that income in tax than do those with less income.

Isn't that what he said? :thinking:

[alawa]

no, I was speaking in general, ironchef was right on this point, but even to the progessive tax, the tax cuts implemented in the early terms of the current administration made the tax rate very low for those making over 200k a year.

[ironchef]

Ironchef and Steve, I am quite thankful that you are 19 years of age. Hopefully you are pursuing higher education. Higher Education should expose you to the real world, and not just the bubble of Alpharetta. I am from Leawood, KS a suburb far more affluent than Alpharetta (look it up), but I still care about the poor. It takes a long time to break out of your boughgeousis style of thinking. I assume, maybe incorrectly that you come from a privledged background as I see you drive a new A4 at 19 and you live in Alpharetta. While there is nothing wrong with this, there is something innately wrong with your animosity towards the poor. Furthermore, I was a national merit scholar, not that I have to justify myself to you, but in an argument, when you begin to make ad hominem attacks, you lose, be considerate of what you say. :-)And you couldnt be further from the truth. First I never said I don't care about the poor, I don't care for the fact that the taxing setup for fulton is messed up and not used to its most efficient extent.

Secondly, I don't have a bourgeois way of thinking. Do you even know what bourgeois means? It seems you don't so heres a little refresher, "The marxist term for the middle classes whose interest it is to preserve the status quo." It obviously isn't in my interest to preserve the status quo because I don't agree with it, hence i dont have a bourgeois way of thinking.

And, no I dont come from a priviledged background what so ever. My family and I came here when I was six with virtually no money, and just a couple suitcases of clothes from a country in the former soviet union. Which was then and most likely still is a pretty poor 3rd world country. We didn't know the language or the customs of america, yet we went from that to now living a pretty good life, having a house in a good safe neighboorhood, without anyones help. The second day we were in america, my parents already got jobs, we never even touched welfare. So, don't think I don't know what its like to live shitty. Which is why im critical of the poor when they start complaining, they have the opportunities yet they choose not to see them through. That's no ones fault but their own.

In regards to the A4, just cause I have one doesn't mean anything. My parents didnt give it to me, the car is in my name, and I pay for it. Since, I got my first job at 16 my parents never just give me anything, besides a roof over my head. So, I know the value of hard work.

[alawa]

hmm, so an expatriot with no idea of how life is in the inner city. kudos to you!

[ironchef]

hmm, so an expatriot with no idea of how life is in the inner city. kudos to you!Expatriot? I don't know what the fuck you're talking about. As far as no idea how life is in the inner city? Let me tell you the story of how my mother and I waited 4 hours in a line to buy a loaf of bread when there was a food shortage. I've seen and been in situations that make your "inner city" look like a fucking country club.

[alawa]

well, how about you volunteer in this country club, I run a youth development program, pm me for details.

[SL65AMG]

point is that there is a bunch of SLACK ASS fucks in southern fulton county. black white whatever they are a bunch of non-rent-paying slackers. and that i do have proof of. everyone knows who pays rent and who doesnt. its a known fact in the real estate world.

i think it would be a good thing to divide the county into two separate counties. one could remain SHITTY and the other would now be able to thrive because they are no longer being pulled down because of a bunch of slackers.

i dont give a damn if theyre white black asian whatever. fact is, a majority of the southern fulton county IS black. it doesnt make any difference. they arent known for not paying rent/mortgages w/e because someone doesnt like them....its just the truth

[Kamikaze]

If you don't mind, some of us are trying to have an intelligent debate. So please, hold your biased, baseless remarks until we're done.

kthxbye :goodjob:

[fire7882]

Isn't that what he said? :thinking:

No.

As the income increases, so does the RATE. It is no longer near 10% when you make 280k but the rate increases to 30%-40%.

40,000 = 4,000 in taxes
280,000 = 100,000 in taxes

[Kamikaze]

No.

As the income increases, so does the RATE. It is no longer near 10% when you make 280k but the rate increases to 30%-40%.

40,000 = 4,000 in taxes
280,000 = 100,000 in taxes

Ah, didn't catch that part.

[ironchef]

This is why we need the fairtax, FTW.

[Jaimecbr900]

You can whine all you want and justify it using whatever COLOR you want, but the bottomline is that it ISN'T fair that anyone gets a disproportionate part of the tax burden.

If the more you make.....then the more you should GET. That is FAR and away NOT the way it actually is. You want to about the "real world"???? How about THAT reality???.....there are MILLIONS of lazy people living off WORKING people.....including YOU if you have a job and pay ANY taxes. Personally, I think that is bullshit. Why should I have to pay for YOUR inability to provide for yourself for an extended amount of time??? Why? If there wasn't that safety cushy net, maybe you wouldn't fall. This country REWARDS failure rather than teach people NOT to fail.

If I make more money than you, then I A: should get MORE than you and B: not be made to support you.

Stand up on your own two damn feet. Why expect someone to carry you???

No matter which way you cut it, the minority should never pay for the majority. The majority should pay for itself.

Again, ironchef brought up an excellent point: The more you pay, the more services you should receive. Wouldn't that just chap all the Cynthia Mckinney's of the worlds ass???? Then it would be true discrimination, wouldn't it????

I want to hear from all the bleeding hearts a real common sense justification of why the wealthier you are the more you should pay for anything. Why the double standard?? Are roads more expensive on one side of the tracks than the other to build???? Then why should one pay more than the other for the same road they share???? Explain that.

[Kamikaze]

I believe anyone can get a job if they really wanted to. I don't think it's fair that they get to live off of everyone else. You can thank your good ol' buddies in the U.S. gov't for them being able to do that. Complaining to everyone else isn't gonna change anything.

The way this country is set up, the rich get richer, the poor get poorer, and the middle class citizens continuously fight to keep their heads above water.

[alawa]

amen six 2 six, and I dont know what roads cbr is tlaking about, but the roads in e atl and the west end are the shitty roads ever. Buckhead and alpharetta already have the best schools and the best infrastructure. If you don't beleive that call me and i'll personally take you on a tour. Also, I extend the opportunity to tutor in my program if you owuld like to get a hands on feel for the true situation, not the rhetoric you hear on TV.

[alawa]

Also, whatever reservations you have against the "bums" that live in this area, you still can't punish their children or relegate them to bad infrastructure/education

[Kamikaze]

amen six 2 six, and I dont know what roads cbr is tlaking about, but the roads in e atl and the west end are the shitty roads ever. Buckhead and alpharetta already have the best schools and the best infrastructure. If you don't beleive that call me and i'll personally take you on a tour. Also, I extend the opportunity to tutor in my program if you owuld like to get a hands on feel for the true situation, not the rhetoric you hear on TV.

It is definitely apparent in the educational system. I know first hand because I'm a senior in high school. The differences between north and south county schools is an atrocity.

[ironchef]

It is definitely apparent in the educational system. I know first hand because I'm a senior in high school. The differences between north and south county schools is an atrocity.Theres programs that alleviate this problem, called minority to majority or majority to minority, i can't remember. Anyway, last I recall reading about it, it allows someone to transfer to a school where they feel they will get a better education, and they work out some kind of transportation system with the county. So, if you really wanted a better education that could be something you could look into. Unfortunately many don't, yet they still cry about the educational problems.

[2.0civic]

No.

As the income increases, so does the RATE. It is no longer near 10% when you make 280k but the rate increases to 30%-40%.

40,000 = 4,000 in taxes
280,000 = 100,000 in taxes


which is why sometimes its hard justifying working harder...i like moeny, money motivates me but if i made 200k, i would be pissed cause im essentially not making much more due to taxes as the guy making 130k...make sense??


As far as you calling me out on being 19, i took AP econ in 11th grade and was the ONLY one at my school taking Econ that was a junior...food for thought... and currently no, i am not enrolled in school but thats because ive lived out of my parents house since i was 16 and pay for all my own shit. Look at my cars ive owned...for the most part, theyve all been shitty


back to topic though...if it was a miced racial environment and wouldnt seem like segregation to a few complainers who want to play race card, nobody would bitch////kinda reminds me about the whole hurricane katrina situation but thats a whole other topic:goodjob:

[2.0civic]

I believe anyone can get a job if they really wanted to. I don't think it's fair that they get to live off of everyone else. You can thank your good ol' buddies in the U.S. gov't for them being able to do that. Complaining to everyone else isn't gonna change anything.

The way this country is set up, the rich get richer, the poor get poorer, and the middle class citizens continuously fight to keep their heads above water.

you just probably unknowigly contradicted yourself...the rich get richer and the poor get poorer but yet "anyone can get a job"? please clarify your stance on this becuase YES, anyone CAN get a job and if they work hard, reap the benefits....

the rich get richer and the poor get poorer is funny too because the rich get richer but also pay for more of the poor peoples shit also...the irony....

[Kamikaze]

Theres programs that alleviate this problem, called minority to majority or majority to minority, i can't remember. Anyway, last I recall reading about it, it allows someone to transfer to a school where they feel they will get a better education, and they work out some kind of transportation system with the county. So, if you really wanted a better education that could be something you could look into. Unfortunately many don't, yet they still cry about the educational problems.

I wouldn't want to do that anyway. I like being around my own people. :goodjob:

If the school board would distribute the money and opportunity like they should, then there wouldn't be any need for busing and what not. You shouldn't have to drive 30-40 minutes to go to school when there's one in your own neigborhood.

[2.0civic]

I wouldn't want to do that anyway. I like being around my own people. :goodjob:

If the school board would distribute the money and opportunity like they should, then there wouldn't be any need for busing and what not. You shouldn't have to drive 30-40 minutes to go to school when there's one in your own neigborhood.

and if south fulton PAID enough, im sure they would...

prime example: look at gwinnett around the duluth lawrenceville area....we have MANY "upper class schools"...why? because we pay a fuckload of taxes...if south fulton provides 20% of taxes, they should inheirently(sp) get 20% of the services...i think thats the point a few are trying to make

[Kamikaze]

you just probably unknowigly contradicted yourself...the rich get richer and the poor get poorer but yet "anyone can get a job"? please clarify your stance on this becuase YES, anyone CAN get a job and if they work hard, reap the benefits....

Yes, anyone can get a job with some effort. Even if it's minimum wage, you got to start somewhere. No, you shouldn't live off of the gov't unless you just have no other option. And as soon as opportunity arises, take it so you can stop getting gov't assistance and the money can go to the next person that really needs it.

Is that clear enough for you?


the rich get richer and the poor get poorer is funny too because the rich get richer but also pay for more of the poor peoples shit also...the irony....

The only thing rich people are concerned about is keeping their money where it's within arms reach.

[ironchef]

I wouldn't want to do that anyway. I like being around my own people. :goodjob:

If the school board would distribute the money and opportunity like they should, then there wouldn't be any need for busing and what not. You shouldn't have to drive 30-40 minutes to go to school when there's one in your own neigborhood.They probably don't distribute it because they see the funding will go nowhere. Lets take a school in north fulton which have 99% of their students go on to college vs south fulton which im willing to bet is a much lower number, the disparity between the two causes the disappropriated funds. Now im all for the kids in south fulton being provided all the same stuff we got in north fulton, but on the same token if they were to be provided with the opportunities, would they take advantage of them? Looking at the state of affairs down there, it doesn't seem to me like they would. That's all my opinion though. I had a friend that actually participated in the M to M program. He lived past the airport even, yet made the trip everyday up here to a school in alpharetta. So if someone wants it bad enough, they can do it.

[Kamikaze]

and if south fulton PAID enough, im sure they would...

prime example: look at gwinnett around the duluth lawrenceville area....we have MANY "upper class schools"...why? because we pay a fuckload of taxes...if south fulton provides 20% of taxes, they should inheirently(sp) get 20% of the services...i think thats the point a few are trying to make

I don't care how many times you say it, it still doesn't make it right. It's ONE fuckin county. If they want to keep the money up north, then damn it they need to split.

[ironchef]

The only thing rich people are concerned about is keeping their money where it's within arms reach.And whats wrong with that? Why should undeserving people get their hands on my hard earned money? They sit on their fat asses on the couch and go to the welfare office once a week or month or whatever, while I work 9-5 or more 5 days a week? For what? Just so part of that money will go to those useless people that contribute nothing to society?

[2.0civic]

I don't care how many times you say it, it still doesn't make it right. It's ONE fuckin county. If they want to keep the money up north, then damn it they need to split.


ding ding ding, we got a winner!!

i dont understand why you are bitching cause you just said a few posts up you didnt want to leave...thats your choice:goodjob: but yet you just keep repeating the fact about how money is distributed...

if you dont like it, move the fuck on

[Kamikaze]

They probably don't distribute it because they see the funding will go nowhere. Lets take a school in north fulton which have 99% of their students go on to college vs south fulton which im willing to bet is a much lower number, the disparity between the two causes the disappropriated funds. Now im all for the kids in south fulton being provided all the same stuff we got in north fulton, but on the same token if they were to be provided with the opportunities, would they take advantage of them? Looking at the state of affairs down there, it doesn't seem to me like they would. That's all my opinion though. I had a friend that actually participated in the M to M program. He lived past the airport even, yet made the trip everyday up here to a school in alpharetta. So if someone wants it bad enough, they can do it.

But the kids in south Fulton aren't even getting the opportunity to take advantage of what the school system provides to north county schools. How in the hell do you expect someone to take advantage of something when it's not even there?

[ironchef]

But the kids in south Fulton aren't even getting the opportunity to take advantage of what the school system provides to north county schools. How in the hell do you expect someone to take advantage of something when it's not even there?Im pretty sure there is a reason for that. I doubt the government is going to appropriate funds for say 25 new computers for a computer lab when only 4-5 out of 25 students will want to use those computers to further their education.

[Kamikaze]

ding ding ding, we got a winner!!

i dont understand why you are bitching cause you just said a few posts up you didnt want to leave...thats your choice:goodjob: but yet you just keep repeating the fact about how money is distributed...

if you dont like it, move the fuck on

You didn't prove anything. Yeah, I like it down here. It's quiet, plenty of land, and plenty of people I can actually deal with.

[2.0civic]

And whats wrong with that? Why should undeserving people get their hands on my hard earned money? They sit on their fat asses on the couch and go to the welfare office once a week or month or whatever, while I work 9-5 or more 5 days a week? For what? Just so part of that money will go to those useless people that contribute nothing to society?

dude ironchef, you are right on point...


626, you ever worked at a grocery store?? back when i worked at kroger, a lady came in and bought $400 something in groceries on FOOD STAMPS (ALL name brand shit). I dont eat all named brand shit but they come through with like $90 in coke, Velveeta shells and cheese, ETC. Why?? because its free...fuck they ate better than my family did. At the end of the buggy, the lady boughta 12 pack and a bottle of wine...she then gave my bagger $10 to take all her free shit the WE just paid for outside...guess what she drove?? a new expedition while I just fed her and her fat ass family

[2.0civic]

You didn't prove anything. Yeah, I like it down here. It's quiet, plenty of land, and plenty of people I can actually deal with.

i wasnt proving anyhting there...i was simply stating, instead of bitching, move to a different county...

[Kamikaze]

Im pretty sure there is a reason for that. I doubt the government is going to appropriate funds for say 25 new computers for a computer lab when only 4-5 out of 25 students will want to use those computers to further their education.

I guess I really can't expect anything different from you. You have no idea what it's like being treated like a second class citizen just because of where you live or the color of your skin.

And no, I'm not trying to play the race card. I'm just going off of what was mentioned in the article.

[Kamikaze]

i wasnt proving anyhting there...i was simply stating, instead of bitching, move to a different county...

Nah, I think you were bitching. And FYI, we used to live in Cobb. Much nicer people there. :rolleyes:

[ironchef]

I guess I really can't expect anything different from you. You have no idea what it's like being treated like a second class citizen just because of where you live or the color of your skin.I guess you didn't read my earlier posts about life in a 3rd world country. Come back and talk to me when you've lived in a country which had one of the worlds lowest GDPs, and lets compare the quality of life and treatment of people. Im just sick and tired of all these people bitching about their shitty situations. If you've got some brain capacity, aren't disabled, and have the drive you too can succeed in life. Spend more time working towards success and less time bitching and see where you end up.

[Kamikaze]

I guess you didn't read my earlier posts about life in a 3rd world country. Come back and talk to me when you've lived in a country which had one of the worlds lowest GDPs, and lets compare the quality of life and treatment of people. Im just sick and tired of all these people bitching about their shitty situations. If you've got some brain capacity, aren't disabled, and have the drive you too can succeed in life. Spend more time working towards success and less time bitching and see where you end up.

And I guess you didn't read my earlier post stating that anyone can get a job if they put forth the effort.

And I'm not in a 'shitty' situation. Quite the contrary actually. I'm just a mere advocate for everyone else. ;)

[2.0civic]

Nah, I think you were bitching. And FYI, we used to live in Cobb. Much nicer people there. :rolleyes:


im not bitching...my family is multiracial so i get shit from both sides...now what??

626, please try to make whatever point you are trying and move the hell on...after reading your posts in here, i have no idea WTF you are trying to prove/argue for or against

[ironchef]

im not bitching...my family is multiracial so i get shit from both sides...now what??

626, please try to make whatever point you are trying and move the hell on...after reading your posts in here, i have no idea WTF you are trying to prove/argue for or againstSame here dude, I have no idea what hes trying to say. I don't get why i'm even answering his posts lol. /thread for me.

[Kamikaze]

im not bitching...my family is multiracial so i get shit from both sides...now what??

I dunno. Party? :???:


626, please try to make whatever point you are trying and move the hell on...after reading your posts in here, i have no idea WTF you are trying to prove/argue for or against

That's probably because this thread has strayed away from it's original intent quite a few times. Let's do a recap...


I personally think the county is too large to adequately serve all of it's citizens equally.
I also believe too many of the politicians/board members/council persons/whatever are too concerned with their own agendas to get anything done.
I think the school system is horrible when it comes to money/opportunity distribution and any one who can't see that must be blind.
If these problems can't be solved, I think the county should split. Let the north county folks keep their shit, and let the south county folks try to gain what has been kept from them.
How's that?

[2.0civic]

you win

[Kamikaze]

yay

[Jaimecbr900]

That's probably because this thread has strayed away from it's original intent quite a few times. Let's do a recap...


I personally think the county is too large to adequately serve all of it's citizens equally.

Then why debate AGAINST the splitting then? :thinking:


I also believe too many of the politicians/board members/council persons/whatever are too concerned with their own agendas to get anything done.

All county officials that can manage that money are ELECTED. Next election, cast a vote for someone YOU feel is better. You are probably right, but the only way to change that is to VOTE and make that change. Their posts all have terms. They're not perpetual.

Problem is that too many people complain blindly, yet don't go to the voting booth when it's time. So if you don't vote, you have no voice and you have no right to complain IMO.



I think the school system is horrible when it comes to money/opportunity distribution and any one who can't see that must be blind.

See, problem is way too many people DEPEND on the "gov't" to feed them, clothe them, educate them, support them, etc.

Every single person has the CHOICE to attend private schools or even home school if they don't feel the gov't school that HOME OWNERS pay for is not good enough. Not everyone will have the means, but that too is NOT anyone else's fault.

So the bottomline is that noone is forced to stay in a bad school, you have choices. Few, but you have choices. So if you are going to a school that has "less resources" then either move or go to a different kind of school.


If these problems can't be solved, I think the county should split. Let the north county folks keep their shit, and let the south county folks try to gain what has been kept from them.
How's that?

Although I agree with you and based on your statement you agree as well, notice how you word your statement.

You are convinced that N. Fulton is the haves and S. Fulton is the have nots. The North folks have their own "shit", yet the South folks are trying to get "what's been kept FROM them"..... :rolleyes:

[2.0civic]

Then why debate AGAINST the splitting then? :thinking:



All county officials that can manage that money are ELECTED. Next election, cast a vote for someone YOU feel is better. You are probably right, but the only way to change that is to VOTE and make that change. Their posts all have terms. They're not perpetual.

Problem is that too many people complain blindly, yet don't go to the voting booth when it's time. So if you don't vote, you have no voice and you have no right to complain IMO.




See, problem is way too many people DEPEND on the "gov't" to feed them, clothe them, educate them, support them, etc.

Every single person has the CHOICE to attend private schools or even home school if they don't feel the gov't school that HOME OWNERS pay for is not good enough. Not everyone will have the means, but that too is NOT anyone else's fault.

So the bottomline is that noone is forced to stay in a bad school, you have choices. Few, but you have choices. So if you are going to a school that has "less resources" then either move or go to a different kind of school.



Although I agree with you and based on your statement you agree as well, notice how you word your statement.

You are convinced that N. Fulton is the haves and S. Fulton is the have nots. The North folks have their own "shit", yet the South folks are trying to get "what's been kept FROM them"..... :rolleyes:


lirl, jaime, how long does it take you to put together a post?

[{X}Echo419]

not living in Fulton Co. FTW!

[2.0civic]

for real...for once im glad im in gwinnett..

[ironchef]

If milton county actually happens, that will be the shit. They finally finish all the goddamn road construction up here.

[2.0civic]

If milton county actually happens, that will be the shit. They finally finish all the goddamn road construction up here.

what construction? i never go past medlock hardly...is that where the milton area would be?

[Jaimecbr900]

amen six 2 six, and I dont know what roads cbr is tlaking about, but the roads in e atl and the west end are the shitty roads ever.

Which road? Every freaking road that is public. There is no access limitation. You can drive on both the roads up north as you do the ones down south. There is no police stopping you from riding on them, is there?

You obviously didn't get it.

Taxes are supposed to go towards PUBLIC improvements. Schools, roads, fire stations, police stations, police cars, fire trucks, gov't buildings, etc. ALL of those improvements are AVAILABLE and FOR every single resident in the county. To be perfectly honest and if you want to be truly fair about property taxes and what they should and should not go to......the HOME OWNERS should have the biggest say so and use since they are the ones that pay the lion's share of the taxes. Wanna talk about "even" distribution??? How about that? Since I pay MORE property taxes than YOU, then I SHOULD be able to "get" more things, right??? Why not? That's exactly what you and 626 are alleging and fighting for. That's "even" as even can be. You PAY more into it, you GET more out. What's wrong with that?

So the road I was talking about is the 2 way one where you can't have it both ways and PAY less yet WANT more, that road.



Buckhead and alpharetta already have the best schools and the best infrastructure.

Why is that?



If you don't beleive that call me and i'll personally take you on a tour. Also, I extend the opportunity to tutor in my program if you owuld like to get a hands on feel for the true situation, not the rhetoric you hear on TV.

No need. My brother lives there. My nephew goes to Alpharetta school district. You know why he does??? Because my brother WANTED the best school for HIS son and he WANTED that area, so he bought a house and MOVED there. End of discussion. He lived in Gwinnett and didn't like the school my nephew went to. He was driving 45 mins each way to work already. Nice area, nice school, moved.....not that difficult.

To be perfectly honest, this is why we ALL should be given the choice as to which school our children attend if we feel our assigned school is not doing a good job in educating our children. Until that happens, picking up and moving is the only choice if you want to stay in gov't schools.

I live WHERE I live for the same reason my brother moved. I didn't like the school my daughter was going to....it was gov't.....so I moved closer to my office and a much better school. Problem solved. If stayed where I used to live, which was a very nice house with nice roads and close to everything, then I only have MYSELF to blame for the poor education of MY children.

If you depend LESS on the gov't to provide for you....shady politicians, bad politics, liberal school teachers, shitty school supplies, and bad education will NOT have such a traumatic effect on your everyday life.

Pull up your boot straps and take control of your own destiny. Depending on the gov't for everything will only make you as good as it is. No better, no less. Is that your only aspiration? If so, then continue your course. If not, then do something about it.

[Jaimecbr900]

lirl, jaime, how long does it take you to put together a post?

If I get rolling.....not long..... :D ;)

[2.0civic]

Which road? Every freaking road that is public. There is no access limitation. You can drive on both the roads up north as you do the ones down south. There is no police stopping you from riding on them, is there?

You obviously didn't get it.

Taxes are supposed to go towards PUBLIC improvements. Schools, roads, fire stations, police stations, police cars, fire trucks, gov't buildings, etc. ALL of those improvements are AVAILABLE and FOR every single resident in the county. To be perfectly honest and if you want to be truly fair about property taxes and what they should and should not go to......the HOME OWNERS should have the biggest say so and use since they are the ones that pay the lion's share of the taxes. Wanna talk about "even" distribution??? How about that? Since I pay MORE property taxes than YOU, then I SHOULD be able to "get" more things, right??? Why not? That's exactly what you and 626 are alleging and fighting for. That's "even" as even can be. You PAY more into it, you GET more out. What's wrong with that?

So the road I was talking about is the 2 way one where you can't have it both ways and PAY less yet WANT more, that road.




Why is that?




No need. My brother lives there. My nephew goes to Alpharetta school district. You know why he does??? Because my brother WANTED the best school for HIS son and he WANTED that area, so he bought a house and MOVED there. End of discussion. He lived in Gwinnett and didn't like the school my nephew went to. He was driving 45 mins each way to work already. Nice area, nice school, moved.....not that difficult.

To be perfectly honest, this is why we ALL should be given the choice as to which school our children attend if we feel our assigned school is not doing a good job in educating our children. Until that happens, picking up and moving is the only choice if you want to stay in gov't schools.

I live WHERE I live for the same reason my brother moved. I didn't like the school my daughter was going to....it was gov't.....so I moved closer to my office and a much better school. Problem solved. If stayed where I used to live, which was a very nice house with nice roads and close to everything, then I only have MYSELF to blame for the poor education of MY children.

If you depend LESS on the gov't to provide for you....shady politicians, bad politics, liberal school teachers, shitty school supplies, and bad education will NOT have such a traumatic effect on your everyday life.

Pull up your boot straps and take control of your own destiny. Depending on the gov't for everything will only make you as good as it is. No better, no less. Is that your only aspiration? If so, then continue your course. If not, then do something about it.

damn...well said yet again

[fire7882]

I just wanted to point something out.

South Fulton schools don't have the $ for new books an infrastructure because they have to pay their teachers up to 15% more because nobody wants to work there. If the students had a little respect and the parents actually gave a damn about their kids’ education and life, things might be different. At the beginning of the 2006-2007 school year, Fulton County had close to 100 openings for school teachers and I’m not sure if they were all filled.

If anything, S. Fulton's education system is getting more money

[Jaimecbr900]

damn...well said yet again


I need to run for President or something...... :D ;)

[2.0civic]

I need to run for President or something...... :D ;)

yeah man i got you a vote:goodjob:

[2.0civic]

I just wanted to point something out.

South Fulton schools don't have the $ for new books an infrastructure because they have to pay their teachers up to 15% more because nobody wants to work there. If the students had a little respect and the parents actually gave a damn about their kids’ education and life, things might be different. At the beginning of the 2006-2007 school year, Fulton County had close to 100 openings for school teachers and I’m not sure if they were all filled.

If anything, S. Fulton's education system is getting more money

odd but yet very interesting...so parents dont give a damn about their kids but they want to bitch about everything else...nice:rolleyes:

[Jaimecbr900]

I just wanted to point something out.

South Fulton schools don't have the $ for new books an infrastructure because they have to pay their teachers up to 15% more because nobody wants to work there. If the students had a little respect and the parents actually gave a damn about their kids’ education and life, things might be different. At the beginning of the 2006-2007 school year, Fulton County had close to 100 openings for school teachers and I’m not sure if they were all filled.

Excellent point.

Another thing to consider is competition.

If we were allowed to send our kids to the school that actually TEACHES their students best (i.e. standardized test scores) via a VOUCHER for what we PAY for in property taxes......then the crappy schools would either shape up or close. What is wrong with that? Oh wait, not EVERYONE that attends school PAYS property taxes do they??? Hmmm, well that's a problem for those people then huh.

I could send my kids to the mack daddiest private school just about anywhere if I got a voucher for the amount of property taxes I pay to send them there. THEN when gov't schools empty maybe they'll realize that schools are designed to TEACH and not as pawns in politics.

I could go on, but I'm gonna stop there...... :D ;)

[bigdare23]

Damn, some of you have fucked up attitude toward society! If everyone wasn't so damn selfish we wouldn't have this problem. There's nothing wrong with sharing a helping hand. If you made $200k, so what the problem of with taking $25-$50K and putting it toward society. It's not really "hurting" you. It's not taking food off of your table. Yeah, you might to settle for that Boxer rather then the GT3 (oh wow), but that's not too bad is it? On the other hand, If someone total income is $20k, $5K worth of tax can put you in a bind. Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the slackers, but their are plenty of people that want to improve their living standards that can't. Everyone wants to throw the word welfare out there, but do anyone really know the details of it. To qualify for most assists, you have to work with an exception if you're disable. So welfare is for people who are trying to help themselves that can't fully. There are few exceptions that cheat the system, but there are plenty more people who don't!


This coming from a person who is on track to be making 6-digits (just check out the ^^^location). Once, I get to a place in life that I'm comfortable, I plan on helping bring up alot people that less fortuninate (spelling) then me, and I wish everyone wanted to do the same.


{Plus, I'm fucking a Sociology Major, I can make one call and start spiting facts LOL.}

[2.0civic]

Damn, some of you have fucked up attitude toward society! If everyone wasn't so damn selfish we wouldn't have this problem. There's nothing wrong with sharing a helping hand. If you made $200k, so what the problem of with taking $25-$50K and putting it toward society. It's not really "hurting" you. It's not taking food off of your table. Yeah, you might to settle for that Boxer rather then the GT3 (oh wow), but that's not too bad is it? On the other hand, If someone total income is $20k, $5K worth of tax can put you in a bind. Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the slackers, but their are plenty of people that want to improve their living standards that can't. Everyone wants to throw the word welfare out there, but do anyone really know the details of it. To qualify for most assists, you have to work with an exception if you're disable. So welfare is for people who are trying to help themselves that can't fully. There are few exceptions that cheat the system, but there are plenty more people who don't!


This coming from a person who is on track to be making 6-digits (just check out the ^^^location). Once, I get to a place in life that I'm comfortable, I plan on helping bring up alot people that less fortuninate (spelling) then me, and I wish everyone wanted to do the same.


{Plus, I'm fucking a Sociology Major, I can make one call and start spiting facts LOL.}

i dont think anyones mad at paying more taxes except for the people who want to bitch about not getting enough things, when they dont contribute enough..i dont know if that sentence made any sense but it sounded good coming out of my head while i was thinking it

[bigdare23]

i dont think anyones mad at paying more taxes except for the people who want to bitch about not getting enough things, when they dont contribute enough..i dont know if that sentence made any sense but it sounded good coming out of my head while i was thinking it


LOL

I feel where the upper class folks coming from, but the big man should want to lend a hand to the falling little man. That's if the little man is will to extend his hand while he help his own self get up.


{I'm sounding all smart and shit :lmfao: }

[Jaimecbr900]

Damn, some of you have fucked up attitude toward society!

The bad attitude is not towards society, it is towards leeches. If you don't pay, you don't play. If it were more like that, we would have TONS more in the game. As it is, we are growing dependancy rather than independence. Which is better in your book?


If everyone wasn't so damn selfish we wouldn't have this problem. There's nothing wrong with sharing a helping hand.

Actually this "problem" is created when people base their whole life around what the "gov't" is going to "do" for them and manage it accordingly. When the gov't doesn't give them what they fell entitled to, then they complain.....ala biting the hand that feeds you. What is it that you do to a dog that does that???? :thinking:



If you made $200k, so what the problem of with taking $25-$50K and putting it toward society. It's not really "hurting" you. It's not taking food off of your table. Yeah, you might to settle for that Boxer rather then the GT3 (oh wow), but that's not too bad is it?


There's nothing wrong with it if it is VOLUNTARY. When it's taken from you forcebly it gets a little annoying. If I GIVE you something and you COMPLAIN about it.......what am I supposed to do? Keep giving or give to someone else?



On the other hand, If someone total income is $20k, $5K worth of tax can put you in a bind.

The tax burden of someone that makes $20k/yr is far less than $5k. Look up the tax brackets and see where $20K lies. It's not 25%. It's not even 10% realistically because how many "services" is that $20K/yr person USING??? I'd be willing to bet plenty more than the few pennies he/she is paying INTO the same system he/she is draining out the other end. This is why SS is going bankrupt and this is why the majority of social services are following that example. Pay out more than you are taking in, and even a short bus rider can tell you that will eventually bleed you dry.

Why is that person making only $20k? Start there as the first step.



Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the slackers, but their are plenty of people that want to improve their living standards that can't.

Why can't they?


Everyone wants to throw the word welfare out there, but do anyone really know the details of it. To qualify for most assists, you have to work with an exception if you're disable. So welfare is for people who are trying to help themselves that can't fully. There are few exceptions that cheat the system, but there are plenty more people who don't!

Wrong. There are far MORE that abuse it, hence there is problems with funding. There are plenty of people that get paid NOT to work. They make MORE from public assistance if they have no job at all than if they had a job and only received PARTIAL benefits.

I know of several people, first hand, that receive "benefits" for being disabled when they are perfectly fine to go to work. They work alright, for cash. So they get both hand out and money for working. Since they pay NO TAXES on either, then they technically make more than plenty of others that do work. I know several others that their CHILDREN receive SSI for a bunch of "ailments", yet their parents never paid a dime INTO SSI. How's that work again? Yet, my grandfather worked for over 50 yrs...ran his own business....supported his family......retired.....passed away 2 yrs later from cancer....and now you know how much my grandmother gets from SSI????? $49/mo. Yep, $49, and that's after this year's "increase" :rolleyes: . Why? Because she has a PENSION she worked for and EARNED after 30 yrs teaching snotty nosed kids from toddlers to teenagers. So she gets PENALIZED because she planned ahead. My grandfather PAID THOUSANDS INTO SS, yet he nor my grandmother will EVER get even a fraction of a fraction of that. Yet children of non paying parents GET sometimes thousands of dollars MONTHLY....... :rolleyes:

Don't talk to me about UNFAIR. I KNOW unfair.



This coming from a person who is on track to be making 6-digits (just check out the ^^^location). Once, I get to a place in life that I'm comfortable, I plan on helping bring up alot people that less fortuninate (spelling) then me

That's great, but it is VOLUNTARY and out of your own free will, right??? Would you feel the same way if it was TAKEN from you, and then you saw people squandering it??? Come talk to me after you've been EARNING that 6 figure salary. You will see things differently when it hits YOUR pocket directly.


I wish everyone wanted to do the same.

You're right. Me too.



{Plus, I'm fucking a Sociology Major, I can make one call and start spiting facts LOL.}

As long as you consider the source of your figures......go for it.

[Jaimecbr900]

LOL

I feel where the upper class folks coming from, but the big man should want to lend a hand to the falling little man. That's if the little man is will to extend his hand while he help his own self get up.


{I'm sounding all smart and shit :lmfao: }

Exactly. It is great to help people who TRY to help themselves. Compassion is one thing, being taken advantage of is another.

[bigdare23]

HEY JAMIMECBR900 sorry for responding so late!


The bad attitude is not towards society, it is towards leeches. If you don't pay, you don't play. If it were more like that, we would have TONS more in the game. As it is, we are growing dependancy rather than independence. Which is better in your book?


You say your attitude is toward the leeches, but my thing is why punish all for the actions of few? Yeah, there's will always be those "leeches" what about the people that are trying? FUCK THEM TOO, right?



Actually this "problem" is created when people base their whole life around what the "gov't" is going to "do" for them and manage it accordingly. When the gov't doesn't give them what they fell entitled to, then they complain.....ala biting the hand that feeds you. What is it that you do to a dog that does that???? :thinking:


I feel you on this, but answer this question for me. Which is better to you?
The minority (aka leeches) benefiting because of the majority (aka people trying to the support themselves, but need help), or the majority being punished because of the minority (if you dont understand it I will re-word).




There's nothing wrong with it if it is VOLUNTARY. When it's taken from you forcebly it gets a little annoying. If I GIVE you something and you COMPLAIN about it.......what am I supposed to do? Keep giving or give to someone else?

Dont forget it's taken forcefully from everyone. Just think about those people who are just barely making it, that still got to pay taxes too. When u make minimium wage taxes hurt alot more than when you make $100k+.

Then, If everyone stays in the "same" county, then the money should be divided "equally". If there's 200 schools in the county then the money going toward the schools should be divided by 200. I would COMPLAIN too if a few schools were getting more money than others (just using education as an example).



The tax burden of someone that makes $20k/yr is far less than $5k. Look up the tax brackets and see where $20K lies. It's not 25%. It's not even 10% realistically because how many "services" is that $20K/yr person USING??? I'd be willing to bet plenty more than the few pennies he/she is paying INTO the same system he/she is draining out the other end. This is why SS is going bankrupt and this is why the majority of social services are following that example. Pay out more than you are taking in, and even a short bus rider can tell you that will eventually bleed you dry.


LOL, I know that (I have a B.S in Mathematics). I was just using that as a comparsion for those that were complaining that the tax rate should be the same.

I promise you that if they work, then they are paying into SS. You cant get away from paying into that! I been paying to into SS since I was 15. Trust me, if u work u will pay more into SS then what you get back! (Shit you cant get it until you are like 65, and most people die before they reach that age) Yeah some pay more than others. What? You want the person who get paid more to pay the same amount into SS as the person who gets minimum wage? Then we might as well not have SS then. That's selfish to me since more than likely by the age the richer person retires he/she wont need to depend on SS anyways. On there other hand, the person who struggled throughout life wont have a savings to back them up. Why not put money into the pot, so everyone can benefit farther down the road.



Why is that person making only $20k? Start there as the first step.


1. Easy, they stayed in the hood, where the school wasnt getting the funding like it should of.
2. They had to drop out of school to help take care of the family.
3. They cant afford college
4. They was never told about the opportunities that were out there
5. They was told about the opportunities, but didnt have the resources to get them
6. Slipped up and had a child early (cant blame people for mistakes)

And the list could go on forever...................... but I'm stopping there because the basis is still education. It's like a virus, it must be prevented. If it isnt, it will continue to grow (and wont stop), but how can you prevent something that was already there before you was born. It's hard to break a chain. Some succeed, but most fail. With help, the failure rate will decrease!!!!



Wrong. There are far MORE that abuse it, hence there is problems with funding. There are plenty of people that get paid NOT to work. They make MORE from public assistance if they have no job at all than if they had a job and only received PARTIAL benefits.


Provide it then! We should meet up and goto some shelters and different government agencies (such as DFACS) together. I bet I can prove my side :goodjob:




I know of several people, first hand, that receive "benefits" for being disabled when they are perfectly fine to go to work. They work alright, for cash. So they get both hand out and money for working. Since they pay NO TAXES on either, then they technically make more than plenty of others that do work. I know several others that their CHILDREN receive SSI for a bunch of "ailments", yet their parents never paid a dime INTO SSI. How's that work again? Yet, my grandfather worked for over 50 yrs...ran his own business....supported his family......retired.....passed away 2 yrs later from cancer....and now you know how much my grandmother gets from SSI????? $49/mo. Yep, $49, and that's after this year's "increase" :rolleyes: . Why? Because she has a PENSION she worked for and EARNED after 30 yrs teaching snotty nosed kids from toddlers to teenagers. So she gets PENALIZED because she planned ahead. My grandfather PAID THOUSANDS INTO SS, yet he nor my grandmother will EVER get even a fraction of a fraction of that. Yet children of non paying parents GET sometimes thousands of dollars MONTHLY....... :rolleyes:

Don't talk to me about UNFAIR. I KNOW unfair.


Like you said you know people that are beating the system, yet you do nothing about it, but want to complain. There's your tax paying dollars right there! If you was so worry about it you wouldn't be bitching about it on IA when you know people who are wasting your tax dollars. Report there asses and bam that money could be going to some needy family!

As for your grandparents, honestly with your grandmother pension, do she need SS? If so, I would be mad too, since its there to "help," but if its' more than enough to take care of her and her bills whats the point. Oh, I see just because it there. It could be going to someone who needs it more (I dont want bad blood between us, so this wasnt meant to disrespect your grandparents in anyway).

Last, how can you punish the children for nothing they have done!!! So because there parents arent doing right, they cant eat, have a roof over their head, decent clothes to wear????? Thats just damn wrong!



That's great, but it is VOLUNTARY and out of your own free will, right??? Would you feel the same way if it was TAKEN from you, and then you saw people squandering it??? Come talk to me after you've been EARNING that 6 figure salary. You will see things differently when it hits YOUR pocket directly.


i know its voluntary (wouldnt the world be better if everyone had some of my characteristics LOL). Honestly, taxes wouldnt matter if I saw what my money was going to. I'm not selfish, I want others to come up with me, not be held down because of me! And when I do make 6 figures my ideas wont chance, promise ya! I turned down a job making $80k in DC (right when I graduated in May 2006), to contiune my education (which is very important to me) so money isn't really that important to me. Yes, I want nice things, but I know if I do good deeds, I will get what I deserve!

And Last I already feelin the wrath of the government tax (I work for the Department of Interior) and that hasnt change my opinion! It's was good debating with ya!!! You can respond back but I'm done with this for now.

[Jkuao]

One part missing from the article is what percentage of income to tax rate. Merely claiming 29% of the population pays 42% of the tax is meaningless without their income level or their property value. If that 29% of the population's property is actually worth 70% of the property in the county, who would be arguing? It's the same incomplete argument that the top 50% of earners pay 96% of all taxes.

The redistributive effect of property tax in a county like this for education is just that and not necessarily an example of taxes gone awry although it could be. Education is generally considered a public good. People who have at least a primary school education can generally function in society and join a workforce that is more fluid. This in turn creates lower rates of unemployment as well as reduced need for welfare programs (now known as TANF) not to mention reduce the odds of them mugging you at night. Temporary Assistance for Needy Families forces those w/ assistance to attend vocational training and attempt to find work...reform that came along in the Clinton admin w/ the Republican congress that forced time limits on benefits. According to this (http://www.stateline.org/live/ViewPage.action?siteNodeId=136&languageId=1&contentId=125536) article the welfare rolls in GA have fallen nearly 75% since 2000 which is a fairly big push. There is still the work disincentive(where you lose benefits if you start working) but at least the time limits attempt to reduce the number of those habitually in need.

The fact that schools still produce some people who are wholly incapable of joining society is a different story and one that will not be solved by vouchers which have been proven to only provide private school education for those who could already well afford it. I don't particularly agree with high levels of social welfare and this is just another example at the expense of many public schools that are functioning just fine. If you want your kids to be coddled in private school, belly up the money and be glad the riff-raff can't afford to sit next to your kids. The university system(outside of GA) works just the same. Send your kid to local U and hope for the best unless you're willing to drop 40k/year for every last bit of advantage. Georgia's Hope scholarship may seem analagous to a voucher system but imagine if your kid had to compete to get into a decent kindergarten.

As for tax burden...I had over 18k withheld from my paycheck for last year and this year it will exceed 20k if I don't work up some more deductions. That's a Civic Si a year I give to Uncle Sam. As a single male w/ health insurance I don't exactly get a huge amount of benefit from gov't services but that doesn't mean I don't have to pay up. Nor do I expect SS to be there in the 39 years until I can retire. That money is paying up for all those retirees today who probably earned less as part of the workforce than in retirement but blame AARP and pandering politicians for providing welfare to retirees. In all honesty SS could be fixed w/ a couple % reduction in benefit growth and an increase in retirement age (people used to not have a 1/4 chance of making it to 90) but all those silver haired folks living it up in Boca Raton would stage a coup d'état if we tried that. Private accounts aren't a fix either...hence Bush's utter failure at reform.

My last job formerly had a pension(only for those over 40) that was promised to be fully funded but instead was cut 2 years after that promise to make quarterly earnings statements to appease the shareholders. Many of my coworkers had put in 20+ years and put up w/ good and bad times with the expectation of a comfortable retirement which was suddenly taken from them toward the end of their career. For them SS is the only safety net they may have to a reasonable retirement since they didn't put much into their 401k's or demand rapid salary increases in exchange for lifetime employment.

As for complaining about the quality of the school, you should instead be more involved in your children's education. Even the best private school has produced its shares of useless, albeit priviledged dropouts. I actually attended one of those crappy public schools in Gwinnett County yet I still managed to go Ivy League as did my younger brother and my older brother still managed GT but it had little to do w/ the teachers or so many of our classmates that wound up working for $8/hr despite having families that were fairly affluent. Our parents pushed us as did all of the other people I met in college up there.

I apologize for the extraordinarily long post but my economics background in public finance just got the best of me.

[Kamikaze]

Then why debate AGAINST the splitting then? :thinking:


I don't care how many times you say it, it still doesn't make it right. It's ONE fuckin county. If they want to keep the money up north, then damn it they need to split.

Why don't you try reading my posts first before you decide to reply? I never said the county shouldn't split. Really, as I look at my replys to other people, I was giving reasons they should split.

[Kamikaze]

HEY JAMIMECBR900 sorry for responding so late!



You say your attitude is toward the leeches, but my thing is why punish all for the actions of few? Yeah, there's will always be those "leeches" what about the people that are trying? FUCK THEM TOO, right?



I feel you on this, but answer this question for me. Which is better to you?
The minority (aka leeches) benefiting because of the majority (aka people trying to the support themselves, but need help), or the majority being punished because of the minority (if you dont understand it I will re-word).




Dont forget it's taken forcefully from everyone. Just think about those people who are just barely making it, that still got to pay taxes too. When u make minimium wage taxes hurt alot more than when you make $100k+.

Then, If everyone stays in the "same" county, then the money should be divided "equally". If there's 200 schools in the county then the money going toward the schools should be divided by 200. I would COMPLAIN too if a few schools were getting more money than others (just using education as an example).



LOL, I know that (I have a B.S in Mathematics). I was just using that as a comparsion for those that were complaining that the tax rate should be the same.

I promise you that if they work, then they are paying into SS. You cant get away from paying into that! I been paying to into SS since I was 15. Trust me, if u work u will pay more into SS then what you get back! (Shit you cant get it until you are like 65, and most people die before they reach that age) Yeah some pay more than others. What? You want the person who get paid more to pay the same amount into SS as the person who gets minimum wage? Then we might as well not have SS then. That's selfish to me since more than likely by the age the richer person retires he/she wont need to depend on SS anyways. On there other hand, the person who struggled throughout life wont have a savings to back them up. Why not put money into the pot, so everyone can benefit farther down the road.



1. Easy, they stayed in the hood, where the school wasnt getting the funding like it should of.
2. They had to drop out of school to help take care of the family.
3. They cant afford college
4. They was never told about the opportunities that were out there
5. They was told about the opportunities, but didnt have the resources to get them
6. Slipped up and had a child early (cant blame people for mistakes)

And the list could go on forever...................... but I'm stopping there because the basis is still education. It's like a virus, it must be prevented. If it isnt, it will continue to grow (and wont stop), but how can you prevent something that was already there before you was born. It's hard to break a chain. Some succeed, but most fail. With help, the failure rate will decrease!!!!



Provide it then! We should meet up and goto some shelters and different government agencies (such as DFACS) together. I bet I can prove my side :goodjob:




Like you said you know people that are beating the system, yet you do nothing about it, but want to complain. There's your tax paying dollars right there! If you was so worry about it you wouldn't be bitching about it on IA when you know people who are wasting your tax dollars. Report there asses and bam that money could be going to some needy family!

As for your grandparents, honestly with your grandmother pension, do she need SS? If so, I would be mad too, since its there to "help," but if its' more than enough to take care of her and her bills whats the point. Oh, I see just because it there. It could be going to someone who needs it more (I dont want bad blood between us, so this wasnt meant to disrespect your grandparents in anyway).

Last, how can you punish the children for nothing they have done!!! So because there parents arent doing right, they cant eat, have a roof over their head, decent clothes to wear????? Thats just damn wrong!



i know its voluntary (wouldnt the world be better if everyone had some of my characteristics LOL). Honestly, taxes wouldnt matter if I saw what my money was going to. I'm not selfish, I want others to come up with me, not be held down because of me! And when I do make 6 figures my ideas wont chance, promise ya! I turned down a job making $80k in DC (right when I graduated in May 2006), to contiune my education (which is very important to me) so money isn't really that important to me. Yes, I want nice things, but I know if I do good deeds, I will get what I deserve!

And Last I already feelin the wrath of the government tax (I work for the Department of Interior) and that hasnt change my opinion! It's was good debating with ya!!! You can respond back but I'm done with this for now.

+1 for you!

[{X}Echo419]

FAIR TAX! FTW!

[Jaimecbr900]

HEY JAMIMECBR900 sorry for responding so late!

Not a prob. Sorry for my late reply to your late reply..... :D




You say your attitude is toward the leeches, but my thing is why punish all for the actions of few? Yeah, there's will always be those "leeches" what about the people that are trying? FUCK THEM TOO, right?

No, but it's rather easy to redistribute resources to where they are better suited to avoid this. How? Well, for starters, you hire people to police the programs. Find out if the benefits are being used wisely or wasted. If someone KNOWS that someone ELSE is watching what they do with OUR tax dollars, they are less likely to waste them. Same with welfare, same with unemployment, same with SSI. All of it needs to be policed by someone. Right now, none of those public assistance programs are being monitored. If they were, we wouldn't have 13 yr olds collecting thousands every month while their mom and dad can readily support them or 25 yr old unemployed baby factories sitting around watching Oprah collecting benefits for her 5 children whom she readily admits doesn't care to make the FATHERS support them. That's bullshit any way you cut it and has nothing to do with which side of the tracks you live on. It's a mental state to where you are PROGRAMMED to expect to be supported rather than support yourself.




I feel you on this, but answer this question for me. Which is better to you?
The minority (aka leeches) benefiting because of the majority (aka people trying to the support themselves, but need help), or the majority being punished because of the minority (if you dont understand it I will re-word).

Neither. As I explained above, efficiency could be greatly increased with the resources we already have. All we have to do is WANT to make it more efficient. Problem is that poor people VOTE. So that means politicians want to pander to that VOTE. They won't make radical changes because it will be PERCEIVED as "your taking MY benefits away" rather than "NO, I'm trying to have more money available for and IF you REALLY need it..." So they lose a VOTE and we get our tax money....MONEY EARNED BY WORKING.....wasted.

No public assistance program was ever designed to be a support structure, only ASSISTANCE....i.e. you eventually get OFF the system and support yourself. We all know or have read about people that not only have been on public assistance their ENTIRE life, but also their children who somehow or another end up in the same rut......why is that?? :thinking:




Dont forget it's taken forcefully from everyone. Just think about those people who are just barely making it, that still got to pay taxes too. When u make minimium wage taxes hurt alot more than when you make $100k+.

Obviously you've never made over a $100k yet, have you?

The way it REALLY works is like this: You make over $100k, and you have $30K taken out of your check. That doesn't change your bills. That doesn't change the fact that the gov't TOOK $30K from you to give to someone else to squander. If you make $20k, they only take $3k if that. So now tell me.....is the $100k/yr person MAKING 10x's more than the $20K/yr person??? NOPE. He makes 5x's more, but PAYS 10x's more taxes.......How's that work out towards that "fairness" thing again???? :thinking:

Add to that how many "benefits" that $100k/yr person USES UP from his/her tax dollar base......now you have someone PAYING a big chunk of his/her HARD EARNED salary each year YET not using any of the public assistance programs he/she is funding....... :thinking:.....HMMMM, that doesn't seem "fair" now does it? Add to that how 99.9999% of everyone making any money PAYS for their own INSURANCE too.....now you have no use of public assistance that way too......Again, how fair is it that someone that works hard to get to $100k/yr should be PENALIZED and MADE to support someone that has no aspirations of being anything other than TAKEN CARE OF???? How fair is that?



Then, If everyone stays in the "same" county, then the money should be divided "equally". If there's 200 schools in the county then the money going toward the schools should be divided by 200. I would COMPLAIN too if a few schools were getting more money than others (just using education as an example).

No. Schools should be made to compete just like any other form of commerce.

If you get crappy service from a restaurant, what do you do??? NOT come back and tell all your friends not to go there, right? Eventually they either shape up or ship out and go bankrupt, right? What happens in that void? Nothing, because another restaurant is there to fill it. It's called supply and demand.

Gov't schools right now don't have that. They operate under a monopoly structure. You get told which one you have to attend, period. Your only other choice is either to move to a better district or go private or suck it up.

Now, insert competition into the mix. Give teachers tenure based on their STUDENTS test scores. If they breed shitty students, then they don't deserve tenure. Give schools funding based on STUDENTS scores and achievements. Put out bad students, get bad funding.

Now insert CHOICES. Give parents a voucher equal to their school tax portion of their property taxes to go towards WHATEVER school they CHOOSE to take their children to. Now, the "better" schools would get ALL THE FUNDING they need to stay a "better" school via paid tuition. After all....isn't that what everyone perceives is the "problem"......lack of funding in your "poor gov't schools"???? :rolleyes: Then problem solved. There's funding.

What you would see is not even distribution at all, but you would see RESULTS. You would see better schools because if you didn't improve people wouldn't want to attend therefore you'd eventually have to close. Voila! That's how business is ran in the real world. Why should Gov't have laws against monopolies, yet it not apply to them??? :rolleyes: ;)



I promise you that if they work, then they are paying into SS. You cant get away from paying into that! I been paying to into SS since I was 15. Trust me, if u work u will pay more into SS then what you get back! (Shit you cant get it until you are like 65, and most people die before they reach that age)

Exactly as the example I gave of my Grandfather. He paid all his life. Got less than 2 yrs worth of "benefits" and passed away. Now my Grandmother is left behind w/o him to help her, yet SSI pays her....NOT the part that my Grandfather was legally entitled to for paying all his life into it and they would still be paying if he were alive.....but a miserable portion because SHE has her own retirement money SHE saved and EARNED.

How's that for SSI being there for you for your retirement?


Yeah some pay more than others.

Actually exponentially more.

Higher income earners pay out the nose for benefits they will NEVER SEE. When they get to retirement age, they will have pensions or 401K or retirement money accrued from their years of WORKING. As explained above, that means what???? They will NOT get ANY SSI because they planned ahead and thought about their retirement. So they paid all their lives so SOMEONE ELSE could benefit. Again, how's that fair???


What? You want the person who get paid more to pay the same amount into SS as the person who gets minimum wage? Then we might as well not have SS then.

DING DING DING!!!!! We have a winner.

That's exactly what should happen. Let people determine their own futures. Let them KEEP the portion of their EARNED money that would have gone into SSI, and INVEST that into something that will both help the economy as a whole AND yield them MORE money for retirement. We can easily do that. Re-investing in OUR own economy. Imagine that concept. More companies would have more money to expand, which would create more DOMESTIC jobs, which would give people more spending money to again help out the economy, which would then put more people OFF public assistance, which would then net MORE money available for those that TRULY need it......wow, what a concept, huh?

So let me get this straight: You'd rather have a system that OBVIOUSLY doesn't work (i.e. is going bankrupt and heavily into debt since decades ago) and makes people PAY that they KNOW won't ever GET paid back.....or would you rather see MILLIONS more people be independently wealthy when they get to be 65????? Hard choice to make, isn't it??? ;)

Know why it won't happen??? VOTES. Politicians can't be eloquent enough to explain things in those terms to their constituents, so they maintain the present course. God forbid if they would have their poor uneducated voters in their district THINK that they are going to get less benefits......uufff, you'd lose votes then. Can't have that. So we maintain a course that puts us on a collision course to nowhere without a future for MILLIONS of people that will just continue that perpetual cycle of public assistance.

I'd rather leave my children something to continue their lifes fruitfully than the address to the welfare office. Don't you? ;)



That's selfish to me since more than likely by the age the richer person retires he/she wont need to depend on SS anyways. On there other hand, the person who struggled throughout life wont have a savings to back them up. Why not put money into the pot, so everyone can benefit farther down the road.

Atleast you agree with me that people who plan for their future, don't ever require assistance down the road.

To answer your question, because it only serves to reward people for making bad choices.




1. Easy, they stayed in the hood, where the school wasnt getting the funding like it should of.

CHOICE.


2. They had to drop out of school to help take care of the family.

How do you "support" your family @ minimum wage? Again, bad CHOICE.


3. They cant afford college

Why not? There are far more grants and programs for lower income families than there is for anyone else. HOPE SCHOLARSHIP FTW (that's the first and last time I've ever used FTW :D ).


4. They was never told about the opportunities that were out there

Do they not know how to read and write? Then why would someone else have to "tell you" anything? How many famous people are there that came from poor backgrounds??? Lots. What's the difference between their ghetto and today's ghetto? Desire and attitude, that's the difference. If you think you're only good for welfare, then welfare is the only thing you'll ever get. Again, bad choice.


5. They was told about the opportunities, but didnt have the resources to get them

What resources is it that are not available? ALL resources START out with the premise that there are choices for even the lower income brackets. So exactly what resources is it that they wouldn't have access to???



6. Slipped up and had a child early (cant blame people for mistakes)

Number 1. Yes I can blame people for their mistakes. They didn't ask me to join them when they were having sex, right? So, why should I have to PAY for their child?

Number 2. It is once again a CHOICE to have sex or not. There are tons more CHOICES for contraception today than there were 50 yrs ago, yet 50 yrs ago you had LESS babies being born out of wedlock.....how's that work? :thinking:

Number 3. There are tons of people that made mistakes when they were young, yet went on to be fruitful and contributing members of society. A child born out of wedlock IS NOT a death sentence nor is it an automatic ticket to welfare. It does increase your chances. It does make it harder to achieve your goals. But it's not impossible. Again, it boils down to attitude and desire. If you are bred to fall back on your behind everytime the going gets tough because you KNOW the welfare's address by heart, then that's what you instill in your children who then will go on to instill it in their children.


And the list could go on forever...................... but I'm stopping there because the basis is still education. It's like a virus, it must be prevented. If it isnt, it will continue to grow (and wont stop), but how can you prevent something that was already there before you was born. It's hard to break a chain. Some succeed, but most fail. With help, the failure rate will decrease!!!!


I 10000000% agree with you there....we just have 2 different ways to make it happen. ;)




Provide it then! We should meet up and goto some shelters and different government agencies (such as DFACS) together. I bet I can prove my side :goodjob:

Bet. I volunteer at the Gwinnett Co. Juvenile court as a member to the panel that hears child custody cases from DFACS. We determine what's in the child's best interest and make recommendations and testify directly to the judge as to what we think should happen. So trust me, been there done that and bought the shirt.

I am also a Lay Pastor at my church. Some of my duties require me to visit hospitals and shelters whenever necessary. I see sick and dying people on a regular basis. I also see needy people and help coordinate different programs our church has to help them. I see the down and out people and I see the dying people.....both have something in common.....they want someone to talk to. Most of my work in that capacity is counseling.

So trust me, I see the people that REALLY need help. I also see the people that are squandering it away daily on everything from the store to TV.

BTW, abuse is having two arms and two legs and having decent health and NOT going out to get a job. Abuse is having 5 kids from 5 different partners and not making a single one pay for it. Abuse is committing fraud to get SSI for your kids whom you KNOW don't have ADD.

Trust me, there are far more committing abuse than you think.


Like you said you know people that are beating the system, yet you do nothing about it, but want to complain. There's your tax paying dollars right there! If you was so worry about it you wouldn't be bitching about it on IA when you know people who are wasting your tax dollars. Report there asses and bam that money could be going to some needy family!

You don't know me, but trust me I try and do plenty. Why do you think I got involved with the courts? The main reason was because after calling DFACS and getting "sorry, but we just have a big case load and can't help you...", I thought that children (who are the only true innocents) deserved a voice in their well being. Sometimes their parents have no clue nor desire to look at that FIRST. When I review their cases, I look at that FIRST.

So to answer your question, you are correct in a way. I am by far not doing as much as I could to change it myself. But I am trying. ;)


As for your grandparents, honestly with your grandmother pension, do she need SS? If so, I would be mad too, since its there to "help," but if its' more than enough to take care of her and her bills whats the point. Oh, I see just because it there. It could be going to someone who needs it more (I dont want bad blood between us, so this wasnt meant to disrespect your grandparents in anyway).

The point is not that she needs it or not. She has a family. She will NEVER go without. It's the principle. The principle that someone, my Grandfather, worked his entire life. Worked menial jobs, long hours, in crappy conditions to raise his family. They never got welfare, although my dad and my uncle were raised in terrible housing in NY when they were little. No heat, 1 bedroom, walking to school in the freezing cold......you know the old story our Grandparents tell us....only for real. Bottomline is that they pulled themselves out of that situation into better ones, until eventually they prospered. My own parents struggled before we moved to Georgia. I remember not having running hot water in our 2 room house. I remember getting IOU's at Christmas because my parents didn't have the money to buy us the things we wanted. I remember having to walk, for about 5 miles each way, thru alleys and passing people doing drug deals, just to go to school. I remember having only 1 car for the whole family....a 1978 Camaro....2 doors, 4 kids.....and DEALING with it. My dad had to drop off my mother downtown only to then drive all the way up to Gainesville to his work, only to do it all again in the afternoon, only to then come COOK for us....... ;)

I wasn't born with a silverspoon in my mouth, trust me.



Last, how can you punish the children for nothing they have done!!! So because there parents arent doing right, they cant eat, have a roof over their head, decent clothes to wear????? Thats just damn wrong!

By the same token, why should you reward them for making bad choices?

As I said above, children are indeed the innocents. I have nothing against them at all. So I agree with you.



I'm not selfish, I want others to come up with me, not be held down because of me!

See, that's the problem. People have CHOICES. Those CHOICES are what for the most part make or break you. NOT OTHER PEOPLE. The "man" mentality is what some people take seriously. The "man" is keeping me down, the "man" is keeping me from going to school, the "man" is not letting me make $100k/yr. It's not the "man", it's the attitude. Noone EVER wins if they feel defeated before the fight even starts.

[Jaimecbr900]

^^^World's longest thread. :lmfao:

Boy, I'm long winded. :D

[ironchef]

Jaime you should run for president and clean this country up haha.

[Jaimecbr900]

Jaime you should run for president and clean this country up haha.


I would, but there's that one thing about background checks........ ;) :lmfao:

[The Ninja]

Yea I'm sorry but I definately wouldn't vote for you. If the gov't/economy ran the way you wanted, we would have the extremely rich and the extremely poor. You forget to add into all your equations that the "middle" class is the largest class in America.

[2.0civic]

Yea I'm sorry but I definately wouldn't vote for you. If the gov't/economy ran the way you wanted, we would have the extremely rich and the extremely poor. You forget to add into all your equations that the "middle" class is the largest class in America.

jaime isnt bitching about the middle class, hes bitching about the freeloaders who bitch about not having services but those people complaining arent contributing to get the services...please read all the posts before jumping to conclusions

[The Ninja]

Then he's bitching about a very small portion of people, especially when compared to that of those who need the benefits and aren't getting them, and are complaining.

[bigdare23]

Not a prob. Sorry for my late reply to your late reply..... :D





No, but it's rather easy to redistribute resources to where they are better suited to avoid this. How? Well, for starters, you hire people to police the programs. Find out if the benefits are being used wisely or wasted. If someone KNOWS that someone ELSE is watching what they do with OUR tax dollars, they are less likely to waste them. Same with welfare, same with unemployment, same with SSI. All of it needs to be policed by someone. Right now, none of those public assistance programs are being monitored. If they were, we wouldn't have 13 yr olds collecting thousands every month while their mom and dad can readily support them or 25 yr old unemployed baby factories sitting around watching Oprah collecting benefits for her 5 children whom she readily admits doesn't care to make the FATHERS support them. That's bullshit any way you cut it and has nothing to do with which side of the tracks you live on. It's a mental state to where you are PROGRAMMED to expect to be supported rather than support yourself.





Neither. As I explained above, efficiency could be greatly increased with the resources we already have. All we have to do is WANT to make it more efficient. Problem is that poor people VOTE. So that means politicians want to pander to that VOTE. They won't make radical changes because it will be PERCEIVED as "your taking MY benefits away" rather than "NO, I'm trying to have more money available for and IF you REALLY need it..." So they lose a VOTE and we get our tax money....MONEY EARNED BY WORKING.....wasted.

No public assistance program was ever designed to be a support structure, only ASSISTANCE....i.e. you eventually get OFF the system and support yourself. We all know or have read about people that not only have been on public assistance their ENTIRE life, but also their children who somehow or another end up in the same rut......why is that?? :thinking:





Obviously you've never made over a $100k yet, have you?

The way it REALLY works is like this: You make over $100k, and you have $30K taken out of your check. That doesn't change your bills. That doesn't change the fact that the gov't TOOK $30K from you to give to someone else to squander. If you make $20k, they only take $3k if that. So now tell me.....is the $100k/yr person MAKING 10x's more than the $20K/yr person??? NOPE. He makes 5x's more, but PAYS 10x's more taxes.......How's that work out towards that "fairness" thing again???? :thinking:

Add to that how many "benefits" that $100k/yr person USES UP from his/her tax dollar base......now you have someone PAYING a big chunk of his/her HARD EARNED salary each year YET not using any of the public assistance programs he/she is funding....... :thinking:.....HMMMM, that doesn't seem "fair" now does it? Add to that how 99.9999% of everyone making any money PAYS for their own INSURANCE too.....now you have no use of public assistance that way too......Again, how fair is it that someone that works hard to get to $100k/yr should be PENALIZED and MADE to support someone that has no aspirations of being anything other than TAKEN CARE OF???? How fair is that?




No. Schools should be made to compete just like any other form of commerce.

If you get crappy service from a restaurant, what do you do??? NOT come back and tell all your friends not to go there, right? Eventually they either shape up or ship out and go bankrupt, right? What happens in that void? Nothing, because another restaurant is there to fill it. It's called supply and demand.

Gov't schools right now don't have that. They operate under a monopoly structure. You get told which one you have to attend, period. Your only other choice is either to move to a better district or go private or suck it up.

Now, insert competition into the mix. Give teachers tenure based on their STUDENTS test scores. If they breed shitty students, then they don't deserve tenure. Give schools funding based on STUDENTS scores and achievements. Put out bad students, get bad funding.

Now insert CHOICES. Give parents a voucher equal to their school tax portion of their property taxes to go towards WHATEVER school they CHOOSE to take their children to. Now, the "better" schools would get ALL THE FUNDING they need to stay a "better" school via paid tuition. After all....isn't that what everyone perceives is the "problem"......lack of funding in your "poor gov't schools"???? :rolleyes: Then problem solved. There's funding.

What you would see is not even distribution at all, but you would see RESULTS. You would see better schools because if you didn't improve people wouldn't want to attend therefore you'd eventually have to close. Voila! That's how business is ran in the real world. Why should Gov't have laws against monopolies, yet it not apply to them??? :rolleyes: ;)




Exactly as the example I gave of my Grandfather. He paid all his life. Got less than 2 yrs worth of "benefits" and passed away. Now my Grandmother is left behind w/o him to help her, yet SSI pays her....NOT the part that my Grandfather was legally entitled to for paying all his life into it and they would still be paying if he were alive.....but a miserable portion because SHE has her own retirement money SHE saved and EARNED.

How's that for SSI being there for you for your retirement?



Actually exponentially more.

Higher income earners pay out the nose for benefits they will NEVER SEE. When they get to retirement age, they will have pensions or 401K or retirement money accrued from their years of WORKING. As explained above, that means what???? They will NOT get ANY SSI because they planned ahead and thought about their retirement. So they paid all their lives so SOMEONE ELSE could benefit. Again, how's that fair???



DING DING DING!!!!! We have a winner.

That's exactly what should happen. Let people determine their own futures. Let them KEEP the portion of their EARNED money that would have gone into SSI, and INVEST that into something that will both help the economy as a whole AND yield them MORE money for retirement. We can easily do that. Re-investing in OUR own economy. Imagine that concept. More companies would have more money to expand, which would create more DOMESTIC jobs, which would give people more spending money to again help out the economy, which would then put more people OFF public assistance, which would then net MORE money available for those that TRULY need it......wow, what a concept, huh?

So let me get this straight: You'd rather have a system that OBVIOUSLY doesn't work (i.e. is going bankrupt and heavily into debt since decades ago) and makes people PAY that they KNOW won't ever GET paid back.....or would you rather see MILLIONS more people be independently wealthy when they get to be 65????? Hard choice to make, isn't it??? ;)

Know why it won't happen??? VOTES. Politicians can't be eloquent enough to explain things in those terms to their constituents, so they maintain the present course. God forbid if they would have their poor uneducated voters in their district THINK that they are going to get less benefits......uufff, you'd lose votes then. Can't have that. So we maintain a course that puts us on a collision course to nowhere without a future for MILLIONS of people that will just continue that perpetual cycle of public assistance.

I'd rather leave my children something to continue their lifes fruitfully than the address to the welfare office. Don't you? ;)




Atleast you agree with me that people who plan for their future, don't ever require assistance down the road.

To answer your question, because it only serves to reward people for making bad choices.





CHOICE.



How do you "support" your family @ minimum wage? Again, bad CHOICE.



Why not? There are far more grants and programs for lower income families than there is for anyone else. HOPE SCHOLARSHIP FTW (that's the first and last time I've ever used FTW :D ).



Do they not know how to read and write? Then why would someone else have to "tell you" anything? How many famous people are there that came from poor backgrounds??? Lots. What's the difference between their ghetto and today's ghetto? Desire and attitude, that's the difference. If you think you're only good for welfare, then welfare is the only thing you'll ever get. Again, bad choice.



What resources is it that are not available? ALL resources START out with the premise that there are choices for even the lower income brackets. So exactly what resources is it that they wouldn't have access to???




Number 1. Yes I can blame people for their mistakes. They didn't ask me to join them when they were having sex, right? So, why should I have to PAY for their child?

Number 2. It is once again a CHOICE to have sex or not. There are tons more CHOICES for contraception today than there were 50 yrs ago, yet 50 yrs ago you had LESS babies being born out of wedlock.....how's that work? :thinking:

Number 3. There are tons of people that made mistakes when they were young, yet went on to be fruitful and contributing members of society. A child born out of wedlock IS NOT a death sentence nor is it an automatic ticket to welfare. It does increase your chances. It does make it harder to achieve your goals. But it's not impossible. Again, it boils down to attitude and desire. If you are bred to fall back on your behind everytime the going gets tough because you KNOW the welfare's address by heart, then that's what you instill in your children who then will go on to instill it in their children.




I 10000000% agree with you there....we just have 2 different ways to make it happen. ;)





Bet. I volunteer at the Gwinnett Co. Juvenile court as a member to the panel that hears child custody cases from DFACS. We determine what's in the child's best interest and make recommendations and testify directly to the judge as to what we think should happen. So trust me, been there done that and bought the shirt.

I am also a Lay Pastor at my church. Some of my duties require me to visit hospitals and shelters whenever necessary. I see sick and dying people on a regular basis. I also see needy people and help coordinate different programs our church has to help them. I see the down and out people and I see the dying people.....both have something in common.....they want someone to talk to. Most of my work in that capacity is counseling.

So trust me, I see the people that REALLY need help. I also see the people that are squandering it away daily on everything from the store to TV.

BTW, abuse is having two arms and two legs and having decent health and NOT going out to get a job. Abuse is having 5 kids from 5 different partners and not making a single one pay for it. Abuse is committing fraud to get SSI for your kids whom you KNOW don't have ADD.

Trust me, there are far more committing abuse than you think.



You don't know me, but trust me I try and do plenty. Why do you think I got involved with the courts? The main reason was because after calling DFACS and getting "sorry, but we just have a big case load and can't help you...", I thought that children (who are the only true innocents) deserved a voice in their well being. Sometimes their parents have no clue nor desire to look at that FIRST. When I review their cases, I look at that FIRST.

So to answer your question, you are correct in a way. I am by far not doing as much as I could to change it myself. But I am trying. ;)



The point is not that she needs it or not. She has a family. She will NEVER go without. It's the principle. The principle that someone, my Grandfather, worked his entire life. Worked menial jobs, long hours, in crappy conditions to raise his family. They never got welfare, although my dad and my uncle were raised in terrible housing in NY when they were little. No heat, 1 bedroom, walking to school in the freezing cold......you know the old story our Grandparents tell us....only for real. Bottomline is that they pulled themselves out of that situation into better ones, until eventually they prospered. My own parents struggled before we moved to Georgia. I remember not having running hot water in our 2 room house. I remember getting IOU's at Christmas because my parents didn't have the money to buy us the things we wanted. I remember having to walk, for about 5 miles each way, thru alleys and passing people doing drug deals, just to go to school. I remember having only 1 car for the whole family....a 1978 Camaro....2 doors, 4 kids.....and DEALING with it. My dad had to drop off my mother downtown only to then drive all the way up to Gainesville to his work, only to do it all again in the afternoon, only to then come COOK for us....... ;)

I wasn't born with a silverspoon in my mouth, trust me.




By the same token, why should you reward them for making bad choices?

As I said above, children are indeed the innocents. I have nothing against them at all. So I agree with you.




See, that's the problem. People have CHOICES. Those CHOICES are what for the most part make or break you. NOT OTHER PEOPLE. The "man" mentality is what some people take seriously. The "man" is keeping me down, the "man" is keeping me from going to school, the "man" is not letting me make $100k/yr. It's not the "man", it's the attitude. Noone EVER wins if they feel defeated before the fight even starts.

Damn that's a long post. I said i wasnt going to respond back, but since you put that much effort into your post, I just cant let you go unanswered, LOL. But, gotta do hw first (since education is important :goodjob: )

[Jaimecbr900]

Then he's bitching about a very small portion of people, especially when compared to that of those who need the benefits and aren't getting them, and are complaining.

Since you want to get into the ring, where exactly does YOUR numbers come from?

Name exactly who it is you refer to that "needs" benefits but doesn't get them? Now compare that number to the number of people that abuse those benefits they do get.

Furthermore, As SteveO perfectly said...I'm not bitching/debating about people who get what they deserve. I'm pointing out that people should have the right to see to it that their hard earned money shouldn't be squandered and even worse have to go to support someone who is not pulling their own weight in the scale of society. That is what the residents of N. Fulton Co. are wanting to say when they say they'd rather support themselves than the WHOLE county. I don't blame them. When you pay your own property taxes, you'll agree as well.

Question for ya: Would you rather 1 innocent person be sent to prison by mistake along with 100 guilty ones or let 100 guilty people free along with the innocent one?

Same thing is going on with your logic. You'd rather maintain the present course which is obvious DOES NOT work, ie. why it's going bankrupt, than it is to make changes which will inherentlly make it more difficult for people to get their deserving and needed benefits. Let's not inconvinience a few for the benefit of 10x's more? How's that logical?

[Jaimecbr900]

Damn that's a long post. I said i wasnt going to respond back, but since you put that much effort into your post, I just cant let you go unanswered, LOL. But, gotta do hw first (since education is important :goodjob: )


Believe it or not, you and I agree on more things than we disagree on this subject. We both seem to want good.

Just remember, one way has been business as usual and it's finally going bankrupt. Why not try something different....possibly better??

[The Ninja]

Since you want to get into the ring, where exactly does YOUR numbers come from?

Name exactly who it is you refer to that "needs" benefits but doesn't get them? Now compare that number to the number of people that abuse those benefits they do get.

Furthermore, As SteveO perfectly said...I'm not bitching/debating about people who get what they deserve. I'm pointing out that people should have the right to see to it that their hard earned money shouldn't be squandered and even worse have to go to support someone who is not pulling their own weight in the scale of society. That is what the residents of N. Fulton Co. are wanting to say when they say they'd rather support themselves than the WHOLE county. I don't blame them. When you pay your own property taxes, you'll agree as well.

Question for ya: Would you rather 1 innocent person be sent to prison by mistake along with 100 guilty ones or let 100 guilty people free along with the innocent one?

Same thing is going on with your logic. You'd rather maintain the present course which is obvious DOES NOT work, ie. why it's going bankrupt, than it is to make changes which will inherentlly make it more difficult for people to get their deserving and needed benefits. Let's not inconvinience a few for the benefit of 10x's more? How's that logical?

If your plan didn't have flaws it would be passed without change. You have to understand Politicians have to get the votes, and to fix that you'd have to fix our legal system. Such as instead of having a President campaigning for 3 of their 4 year 1st terms, having them get shit done. But thats another topic.

There are flaws to your plans, and I'm just too lazy to point them out because that would be too much typing. If we were having a discussion and this came up I'd gladly step up to the plate. I don't suggest continuing the present course, I'd say it needs fixing, but that only takes time. And from your point of view its time we don't have.

Well I'm too lazy to get deep into this arguement, I just wanted o'boy to know that not all of IA sided with Jaime or you on this. (nothing personal, honest), And that I enjoyed reading this debate. I'm honestly considering printing sections of this out (minus the bullshit) and taking it to my Current Issues class and discussing it with them.


Fact of the matter is, the bill isn't gonna pass. Period. And anyone who doubts me can put $$$ down on the table (but not alot, cuz i'm poor). I'll put $30 on the table saying the bill will not pass.

[Jaimecbr900]

If your plan didn't have flaws it would be passed without change.

Flaws??? What flaws??? Didn't you get the memo about me being perfect??? :D :lmfao: JP.

It probably does. But I think that if someone doesn't do something, it will only get worse. So it may be flawed, but far less than the current system.


You have to understand Politicians have to get the votes, and to fix that you'd have to fix our legal system. Such as instead of having a President campaigning for 3 of their 4 year 1st terms, having them get shit done. But thats another topic.

Believe me I know it's about politics and not about well being of the people. Absolutely agree with you there. :goodjob:



I don't suggest continuing the present course, I'd say it needs fixing, but that only takes time. And from your point of view its time we don't have.

The current system has had "time". They've had decades worth of time. The only time left is for real change. Change that makes sense. Not political strategy change.

Let me ask you: What's going to happen when SS goes bankrupt? What then? Will the gov't simply let us keep our money? Will still keep taking it? This is why changes need to happen now rather than later because there may not be a program later. I sincerely doubt that bankruptcy will automatically mean the seize and decist of collections. If it did, then I would say let it go bankrupt.



Well I'm too lazy to get deep into this arguement, I just wanted o'boy to know that not all of IA sided with Jaime or you on this. (nothing personal, honest), And that I enjoyed reading this debate. I'm honestly considering printing sections of this out (minus the bullshit) and taking it to my Current Issues class and discussing it with them.

I'b be curious to see what young people in college would think about this.



Fact of the matter is, the bill isn't gonna pass. Period. And anyone who doubts me can put $$$ down on the table (but not alot, cuz i'm poor). I'll put $30 on the table saying the bill will not pass.


Hmmm, I'm tempted to take that bet...... :thinking: