I am really a car/power snob. Oh well.

[Vteckidd]

I will point this out though, if being innovative doesn't bring business, why are you going as fast as you can to make as many parts you can to support the Genesis? There aren't a shit-ton of them out there.

I have a hunch, that im going to make A LOT of money in that market. I think i can do better than Bushur and AEM and others.

See the difference is im being innovative making PARTS. Im not building a car.

If i make an intake i average 50% return on it, i can almost guarantee if i built a genesis i would not make a 50% return on it

[Tracy]

Well you know i think dan knows his stuff, but come on. Its no secret. Even back then it wasnt hard to build a 1000whp supra. BIG TURBO, BIG INTERCOOLER, BIG BOOST. done.

Um goes to show what you know. Dan went against what all of the Supra elders were telling him. It's a long story and I won't get into it, but Allen Chen can verify and all of the drama behind Dan's supra and how he did it is why we even have a shop.

The 240? it had a GT28R on it, then a 30R. Those turbos were around for years. His intercooler setup was cool, and the 30R made a shit load of power, but i think that was more in his tuning, not some innovative setup.

Wrong. There was no Gt28R when we built out 240. We didn't have a GT28r on our car when it was first built, we had a turbo that Dan pieced together from precision parts. It ended up becoming the GT28R. If you want to call Garrett. I have their number. You can ask them about Dan's role in the creation of the GT28R turbo. The intercooler set up came like 4 years later because I was hitting too many cones. That was an accident that worked.

The EVO was cool. On a stock block it was def something different. But again, it was a 4G63, the recipe for power on those cars has been around LONG before the EVO 8 came out.

True, but it was an EVO and it hadn't been done on an Evo.

The STI yall had , straight up off the shelf rotated 35R kit. been done 1000 times hell it came from a car with that kit on it.

True again, but that's not the first WRX or STI we built. The first 2 we built were the innovators. The STI we have is crap and was never meant to be anything more than a daily driver and was never touted as anything more.

So i guess im back to the argument. Are you upset because someone built a car that just isnt innovative?

i just dont see the argument

I posted it in the WL because there is no point other than to bitch. There I said it.

[Z0_o6]

I guess my point is

IF SHOP "A" does something crazy innovative an makes 1000whp "CAR"

IF SHOP "B" does something average and makes 1000whp "CAR"

The impact on business is the same.

IMO of course. So why not just keep it simple

It is this difference in strategy that keeps the competition going though ya know? If everyone had the same exact approach to builds and bringing in customers, then it would be pretty boring. It's why one shop chooses to build Porsches while another builds domestic drag cars, while another sticks with Honda's. Everybody has a different opinion of what they want to focus on and try to do, some shops focus on the build of the car, some other focus on the bottom line of the end result, however they get it. Neither is "wrong" per se except maybe in the others eyes

[Vteckidd]

Oh i forgot about the other STIs from back in the day, im getting old.

I thought dan said that his supra wasnt anything crazy, it was like a 42R with stock pistons and carrillo rods. At least thats what i always heard.

His 240,and yours, made awesome power, and it shows that he knows what hes doing. But i wouldnt clasify it as an innovative setup. Hell i guess i dont classify anything as innovative anymore lol

[Tracy]

And thus the reason I mentioned no names. I don't care to start anything, because the fact is, I just didn't like how I was talked down to, not saying that it is wrong to inform the customer of possible issues. It went far beyond saying "OK, we haven't had the best of luck with Hydra's before, so you may want to know going in that the tune may cost a little more since it is more complicated." It was more along the lines of "That piece of shit Hydra you just bought isn't even going to crank the car. You just wasted your money like an idiot, you should have just stuck with your Cobb AP." I can't fucking stand that, because every part on that car has been researched and compared so that I DON'T create a headache for myself or my tuner.

I don't know who you are talking about (could have been us and I don't know because I haven't been there in 2 years) and my post wasn't geared toward you. Just so you know I was just giving my perspective. If you were treated that way, then that sucks. BUT, like I said, you can probably thank all of the idiots out there for the shop not understanding you have done all of your research and such. Facts are, most people don't.

P.S. We put a Hydra on the first STI we built with power.

[Vteckidd]

But i guess the point Tracy is making is that if you have a shop, and you have the tools to do it, why do the same as everyone else. Be different take risks, show that you are different than everyone else.

I get that, i just think A LOT of shops arent in that position to take that kind of risk

[Corolla_TC]

im going to say from a customers perspective, i don't really care what the shop does with their cars. i want to go in and be able to have a conversation about my setup and them know what they are talking about. if a shop knows what they are talking about, i feel more comfortable. if they built an evo and i have a honda, doesn't really do me any good.

[Vteckidd]

Which is kinda of funny cause the only place that really doesnt have a shop car is Mainstream.

Killswitch has their 240s

BG has always had something from the Supra to the Evo to the 240

Mahdavi has their Supras

Topspeed has their Subaru and Supra and their Eclipse


Mainstream gets prob the bulk of honda business, and they dont have a 900whp Honda shop car. They just have a ton of customers that are satisfied and make big power.

[Tracy]

This is prob going to start a fight, but lets see if you can stay level headed and pretend its not me.

What has Batlground done that was innovative that really had a huge impact on your business?

I mean i cant speak for before i was there, but when i was there, barely any Supras came by.

Never once built a drift car (even though you guys had kickass 240s).

Subaru Business followed Siegel wherever he went. Even though you had a STI.

EVO business , we had a few here an there, but the bulk of them went to topspeed.

240s, same as Evos, you guys had a few come in , but nothing out of the ordinary.

I mean what i see from BG was a wider spectrum of cars to work on. A lot of shops around here are branded as a certain make an model of car shop. BG has been an EVO shop a SUPRA shop a 240 SHop, its evolved. but i dont see where anything crazy innovative really got you more business than doing something simple.

Make sense?

No fight. I can understand a decent argument.

You think you can speak on 8 years of business because you were there for 9 mos? That is ridiculous. We worked on a lot of Hondas when you were there because that's what you pushed, now we barely work on any. Whatever we push at the time comes in.

From 2001-2004 we ONLY worked on Supras until we decided to move on on our own accord. We built the 240 at that time (for non-drift). Then everyone thought we worked on 240's and that's all that came in until we built the Evo. Same story for Evo. You are right about the Suby's though we work on select few. All of our cars were way gone before you got here and when you were there we had been on the road for 2 years...

I know you know how fickle everyone is. That's why we always buy new cars and build them. We don't ever want to pigeon hole our abilities. We keep it moving. Funny you should mention, I was at the shop last week for a TV interview deal and we had 2 Supras there, 3 240's, a STI and 2 Evos.

[Corolla_TC]

Mainstream gets prob the bulk of honda business, and they dont have a 900whp Honda shop car. They just have a ton of customers that are satisfied and make big power.

and that is what brings in customers IMO. my corolla has been damn near impossible to find anyone to work on because nobody looks at the corollas. that is why i would be looking for a shop that knows their shit instead of what they drive

[JITB]

i agree, with the mighty T. i dont know whats the fascination about building the same cars over and over and over again...

[JITB]

i agree, with the mighty T. i dont know whats the fascination about building the same cars over and over and over again...

[Z0_o6]

I don't know who you are talking about (could have been us and I don't know because I haven't been there in 2 years) and my post wasn't geared toward you. Just so you know I was just giving my perspective. If you were treated that way, then that sucks. BUT, like I said, you can probably thank all of the idiots out there for the shop not understanding you have done all of your research and such. Facts are, most people don't.

P.S. We put a Hydra on the first STI we built with power.

For the record the only reason Battlground didn't tune my car is because our schedules didn't match up, and Dan was very upfront about that, so no big deal there, I just kept looking and appreciated the honesty.

Tracy you have PM.

[03RCode]

i agree, with the mighty T. i dont know whats the fascination about building the same cars over and over and over again...

And you felt your opinion was important enough that we wanted to read it twice?

[Tracy]

The 240 was innovative Who else was making 500 whp at the time in a 240? Not the drift cars. I am talking about in 2004 when the 240 was 5 different colors.

[Tracy]

And you felt your opinion was important enough that we wanted to read it twice?

Hey at least he got it in there and I am flattered!!!!

[Vteckidd]

No fight. I can understand a decent argument.

You think you can speak on 8 years of business because you were there for 9 mos? That is ridiculous. We worked on a lot of Hondas when you were there because that's what you pushed, now we barely work on any. Whatever we push at the time comes in.

From 2001-2004 we ONLY worked on Supras until we decided to move on on our own accord. We built the 240 at that time (for non-drift). Then everyone thought we worked on 240's and that's all that came in until we built the Evo. Same story for Evo. You are right about the Suby's though we work on select few. All of our cars were way gone before you got here and when you were there we had been on the road for 2 years...

We knew each other long before i came there, and you were VERY active on the boards. it was no secret what BG was doing or working on.

I dont act like i know anymore than i saw and dealt with. I didnt know you ONLY worked on Supras in that time frame.

anyways , gotta run

[Mike Lowrey]

Fuck you, Tracy!

I will take all my 130 torques and run you over!

[Vteckidd]

The 240 was innovative Who else was making 500 whp at the time in a 240? Not the drift cars. I am talking about in 2004 when the 240 was 5 different colors.

the battleship gray car?

hmmmm im pretty sure there was a few around. Maybe not right at 500, but Brians silvia, my old silvia was making 475whp stock block.

Didnt marshall make 400-450whp in his ?

there was a few around that i semi remember

[Tracy]

I thought dan said that his supra wasnt anything crazy, it was like a 42R with stock pistons and carrillo rods. At least thats what i always heard.

It wasn't crazy and that is the point. He made power on stock pistons and rings...and the 42R wasn't even out back then. It was an 88mm turbo which is WAY bigger than a 42R. He made his intercooler piping smaller than everyone else and a few other things that I can't remember since I was a newb back then. All I know is Phil Panas and Ivy were the Supra kings back then and Dan went against all of their advice and they laughed at him.

He used his own common sense from his background at Tech to build a car. He didn't read in magazines what everyone else had done. THAT is a car builder.

[Tracy]

the battleship gray car?

hmmmm im pretty sure there was a few around. Maybe not right at 500, but Brians silvia, my old silvia was making 475whp stock block.

Didnt marshall make 400-450whp in his ?

there was a few around that i semi remember

You had a Silvia in 2004? Brian didn't have his until after ours and can't remember about Marshall. I know it was nice and fast, but don't think it was the same power as ours in 2004.

Not to mention you are arguing our "innovative" cars that were innovative for the time. Not 7 years later and we finally got it right. You understand the difference?

I never said our cars were the ONLY innovative cars just used them as an example.

[Vteckidd]

Nah brian aka Silviadrftr had his in 2004 im pretty sure. Almost dead sure because he had it BEFORE i was working at Nopi and that was 2005. He held the stock block record for awhile. (stock block and cams) it was like 476whp.

So the heart of all this is you have a problem with a shop building an average car. Meaning a car that isnt anything special parts or build wise.

[Tracy]

Nah brian aka Silviadrftr had his in 2004 im pretty sure. Almost dead sure because he had it BEFORE i was working at Nopi and that was 2005. He held the stock block record for awhile. (stock block and cams) it was like 476whp.

So the heart of all this is you have a problem with a shop building an average car. Meaning a car that isnt anything special parts or build wise.

No my problem is shops/"nut swingers" touting their builds like they are something special. Every shop builds average cars for their customers...If you have the means to be innovative, why would you not? As a shop you almost never have the opportunity to show all of your capabilities on customer cars but you have full reign on your own cars.

[Vteckidd]

No my problem is shops/"nut swingers" touting their builds like they are something special. Every shop builds average cars for their customers...If you have the means to be innovative, why would you not? As a shop you almost never have the opportunity to show all of your capabilities on customer cars but you have full reign on your own cars.

Sorry im so dumb and it took this long for me to get the argument.

[Z0_o6]

Hehe.

[Tracy]

Nah brian aka Silviadrftr had his in 2004 im pretty sure. Almost dead sure because he had it BEFORE i was working at Nopi and that was 2005. He held the stock block record for awhile. (stock block and cams) it was like 476whp.

Prolly right on that time frame because I remember him coming to Drift Fury in 2005 or 2006 with the 2jz in the 240.

[Tracy]

Sorry im so dumb and it took this long for me to get the argument.

At least you are good at entertaining my decent discussion thread. Don't take that as a compliment

[Vteckidd]

At least you are good at entertaining my decent discussion thread. Don't take that as a compliment

oh i know i wont

[Tracy]

My posts just don't have the impact they used to without the callouts. I hate trying to be a good girl.

[Z0_o6]

I think you'd be surprised how many people back you up on this one.

[RedEj8]

1000hp 2jz's are super played out. 1000hp 7M...now that's a feat.

[Tracy]

1000hp 2jz's are super played out. 1000hp 7M...now that's a feat.

w3rd. 7M is tight. Who has done that?

[Nismo]

Make a smart car with 300 whp and you have my respect!

[Tracy]

Make a smart car with 300 whp and you have my respect!

Would you believe I talked to Dan about this? He said no wai. LOL. Oh well. I tried to get some innovation going.

[Black R]

Tracy, just call the mutha's out!

I want to know, dammit! :P

[Tracy]

Tracy, just call the mutha's out!

I want to know, dammit! :P

I saw your name down there and was bout to call your ass to make a post. LOL!

[Tracy]

I won't do any calling out. I will however post an old school video that I made. Everyone swore that our car had to be running nitrous because there was NO WAY! Even after we came to the event, they all still said it and we had to be hiding the nitrous. What a compliment

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...ideoID=9855382

[Corolla_TC]

damn that video had so much attitude.....remind me to never get on tracy's bad side

[Tracy]

damn that video had so much attitude.....remind me to never get on tracy's bad side

Yea. Once I am over it...it's on. That was a few years ago when I was at my most crunk.

[Tracy]

Another one with a funny similarity. Let's see if anyone gets it.

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...deoID=43814849